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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Amiga Emulation => Topic started by: AmigaOldskooler on August 01, 2014, 07:09:33 PM

Title: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: AmigaOldskooler on August 01, 2014, 07:09:33 PM
Seems like there is quite a bit of development now concerning WinUAE and PPC support.

I have written a bit about it on my blog:

http://oldschoolgameblog.com/2014/08/01/winuae-adding-amiga-ppc-emulation/

It will be very interesting to see what will happen. Running AmigaOS 4.1 for Classic on WinUAE might be of interest to quite a few people. :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Niding on August 01, 2014, 07:15:31 PM
I think OS 4.1 sales will go up quite a bit (tho its all relative ofcourse).

I for one would defintly get a copy.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: XDelusion on August 01, 2014, 07:41:28 PM
Good!
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on August 01, 2014, 08:08:25 PM
That's Awesome :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: marauderII on August 01, 2014, 09:54:39 PM
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32739
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: som99 on August 01, 2014, 10:09:10 PM
Quote from: marauderII;770073
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=32739


Why link to a 7 year old thread?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Jose on August 01, 2014, 10:10:55 PM
"I think OS 4.1 sales will go up quite a bit ..."

I doubt it, most will probably just pirate it.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: LiveForIt on August 01, 2014, 10:46:15 PM
Quote from: Jose;770076
I doubt it, most will probably just pirate it.

Some will pirate it to test AmigaOS4.1, some will buy it.

I think it can be useful to test things compiled with cross compiler, not having to copy the compiled exe file to my AmigaONE-X1000, just to see if works.

It can be also useful for recovery, if my AmigaONE is not booting, to make boot images and or to make bootable CD's.

So I think this can be useful for existing AmigaONE owners as well this who like to try it.

If some one does pirate AmigaOS4.1 classic they are stupid because will miss out on live updates from AmiUpdate service.

http://amiupdate.codebench.co.uk/
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ajlwalker on August 02, 2014, 12:39:39 AM
If this did lead to a spike in sales, then it could lead to a full PPC emulator version of OS4.

Ah, who am I kidding!? This is Amigaland.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 02, 2014, 01:51:32 AM
Wow really awesome I hope it works out. That would be really cool
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: jj on August 02, 2014, 09:13:37 AM
what would be the point in running os4.1 in an emulator ?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Nickman on August 02, 2014, 09:38:48 AM
Quote from: JJ;770114
what would be the point in running os4.1 in an emulator ?


Running it on cheap hw :) Testing it out.
Maybe one MOS developer want to make a OS4 version and don't want to buy ridiculously expensive hw.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: wawrzon on August 02, 2014, 10:43:13 AM
probably it could sell some os4 copies to those that have never seen it before and think its something worth trying. for the people like me, who have it doesnt make any real difference i guess. winuae is more than perfect for any task i need it for, perhaps somewhere are still some not significant issues, but its just toni who cant rest and leave it be.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: phoenixkonsole on August 02, 2014, 11:56:31 AM
Because it can run faster with jit than on real available hardware and you may not like to buy expensive hw to try it out.

A win-win for hyperion and users. A loss for hw sellers.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Astral on August 02, 2014, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: JJ;770114
what would be the point in running os4.1 in an emulator ?


Probably for very similar reasons to running any other system/setup in an emulator.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: wawrzon on August 02, 2014, 12:34:49 PM
Quote from: Astral;770121
Probably for very similar reasons to running any other system/setup in an emulator.


the reason to run something in an emulator is primarly a unique software library i guess.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on August 02, 2014, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: JJ;770114
what would be the point in running os4.1 in an emulator ?

Because it would be fun :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: EDanaII on August 02, 2014, 02:40:17 PM
Emulation would not make me buy OS4. Cheaper hardware would...
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Minuous on August 02, 2014, 02:41:11 PM
There are plenty of reasons why one would want to emulate it. For many/most people it is the only affordable way to run OS4. Personally I would at least be able to compile and test the OS4 versions of my software rather than samo79 always having to do it for me.
  In fact frankly it is harder to understand why one would rather spend thousands on custom hardware. Only speed and compatibility. I think the important thing for the survival/success of OS4 is to get lots of people to run OS4. How many semi-generic PPC boxes are sold is less important.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Niding on August 02, 2014, 02:51:27 PM
Quote from: phoenixkonsole;770120
Because it can run faster with jit than on real available hardware and you may not like to buy expensive hw to try it out.

A win-win for hyperion and users. A loss for hw sellers.

Well, I can see it looking like a loss for hw sellers, but take me; I do follow Classic and NG news. I have invested a few 100 quids into upgrading my Classic setup. From there; the leap to NG is to far for ME personally, so Hyperion is cut off from potential revenue since a unknown % of us are sitting on the fence intrested in buying their OS, but not ready to front the buy-in that consitute the hw platform.

It might be a stretch; but there MIGHT be secondary revenue to be made. More people actually buying software for the emulated OS, which could encourage software developers to keep producing OS4.x versions of their software/games.
More available software COULD down the line actually help Hardware sellers.

Again from MY own point of view; I got more than enough money to buy the X1000 or the future versions cash without straining my bankbalance, but that aside; the OS and usability that I precive is just not good enough at the moment.
Maybe its because im not a developer for example. I read Lyle's posts about how he enjoys working with the OS and hardware. I think I understand where hes coming from and why it makes sense for him.

For people like me (the END user with no artistic or developer bones), while im intrigued, I still wont take the plunge. But buying a OS and paying for software/Games? Hell yes, not a problem.

TLDR; I think PPC emulation will have positive effects overall.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: phoenixkonsole on August 02, 2014, 06:01:32 PM
Well... exactly. OS4 is overpriced for what you get. I don't see why it should cost that much. Now if you can run it on an AresOne or AmiQube as well, or just bounded to a AEROS USB-stick for 29$, this would change a lot ; )
I am big fan of emulation.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: yssing on August 02, 2014, 08:14:53 PM
The price of AOS 4 is very similar to windows. Any way I would get me a copy of AOS4 for classic ppc if winUAE could run it.
So count me in for an extra copy of AOS4!
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 02, 2014, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;770125
Emulation would not make me buy OS4. Cheaper hardware would...


Well as we can see from the track record of the people with the brand name this is never going to happen. They blew their chance with Moana. If they had gone the route of the morphos team  there would be alot more os4 users. Possibly
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 03, 2014, 08:54:55 AM
Quote from: magnetic;770153
If they had gone the route of the morphos team there would be alot more os4 users. Possibly

The Amithlon approach was the best approach, buying an old PowerPC Mac is expensive and you then are stuck with another piece of hardware.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: jj on August 03, 2014, 09:34:10 AM
Quote from: psxphill;770164
The Amithlon approach was the best approach, buying an old PowerPC Mac is expensive and you then are stuck with another piece of hardware.


ummmmmmmmm no it isn't
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on August 03, 2014, 11:46:51 AM
+1
I would not use it enough to justify spending more than $200
I don't expect it to be sold at $29 though, they would not make a profit at that price.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 03, 2014, 12:43:17 PM
Quote from: JJ;770165
ummmmmmmmm no it isn't

They are going for over £40 here for a g5 powermac, double that for a g4 MacBook. I haven't checked these are supported by morphos because I'd need to find somewhere to put it and it's already too expensive to then add the cost of morphos on the top.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on August 03, 2014, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: psxphill;770170
They are going for over £40 here for a g5 powermac, double that for a g4 MacBook. I haven't checked these are supported by morphos because I'd need to find somewhere to put it and it's already too expensive to then add the cost of morphos on the top.


I dont think £40 is much money although I would not buy G5. PowerBooks are quite expensive yes considering you may have to buy new battery on top of that.

G4 MacBooks dont exist but you probably meant iBook ;)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: eliyahu on August 03, 2014, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: yssing;770142
The price of AOS 4 is very similar to windows. Any way I would get me a copy of AOS4 for classic ppc if winUAE could run it.
So count me in for an extra copy of AOS4!
same here. for me the price alone is worth the ability to run digital universe and codebench on my laptop. i don't have a lot of confidence that one day AOS4 will run in UAE -- but if it does, awesome! :)

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on August 03, 2014, 06:37:46 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;770173
same here. for me the price alone is worth the ability to run digital universe and codebench on my laptop. i don't have a lot of confidence that one day AOS4 will run in UAE -- but if it does, awesome! :)

-- eliyahu


Heck i would be happy using os3.9 to just to see what PPC is like on it :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Linde on August 03, 2014, 06:53:13 PM
Quote from: psxphill;770170
They are going for over £40 here for a g5 powermac, double that for a g4 MacBook. I haven't checked these are supported by morphos because I'd need to find somewhere to put it and it's already too expensive to then add the cost of morphos on the top.


Of course it's more expensive than not using a particular piece of hardware to run it, but compare the price to the existing options you have of running Amiga OS 4
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 03, 2014, 07:50:43 PM
Quote from: Linde;770186
but compare the price to the existing options you have of running Amiga OS 4

That doesn't help. If the cost of the hardware is > 0 in terms of money and space, it's too expensive.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on August 03, 2014, 08:44:02 PM
Quote from: psxphill;770190
That doesn't help. If the cost of the hardware is > 0 in terms of money and space, it's too expensive.


Makes sense. Even if it is free it can be difficult to justify needed space for yet another computer. I have this problem but other way around: I'd like to buy a gaming PC to my gf but I dont know where to put it. I can imagine many potential users are not willing to get PPC even when they got it for free.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: wawrzon on August 03, 2014, 09:12:50 PM
The purpose of uae is to provide amiga hardware emu in order to run amiga software that depends on it. Os4 doesnt need amiga hardware, on the contrary it depends on standard hardware and has been particularly ported to support amiga chipset. If anybody wanted it would be easier to use plain ppc emu alone instead trying to fit it within uae.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: wawrzon on August 03, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: carvedeye;770184
Heck i would be happy using os3.9 to just to see what PPC is like on it :)


and what do you expect? because there will not be any noticeable difference. practically every ppc software title or library there was for warpos has a 68k version. on real hardware this was question of speed for particular tasks like image decoding or so, but what difference could that make under winuae on a fast pc today? none.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 03, 2014, 11:22:29 PM
Quote from: phoenixkonsole;770137
Well... exactly. OS4 is overpriced for what you get. I don't see why it should cost that much..


It cost that much because its an incredibly small niche market. I thought that would be obvious...
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 03, 2014, 11:24:45 PM
Quote from: itix;770197
I can imagine many potential users are not willing to get PPC even when they got it for free.


I can tell you i'm typing this now on a dual core win 7 laptop but would rather have a 1.67 mhz powerbook to dual boot morphos and osx. Problem is there is no longer good support for PPC for alot of net technologies nowadays. I really like the design and feel of the aluminum powerbooks. I sure miss my old one with illuminated keys!
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Lurch on August 04, 2014, 08:35:31 AM
Using my 17.3" quad core i7 (8 with hyper threading) laptop I prefer the i7 as my Pegasos sits idle of late :-/
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Lurch on August 04, 2014, 08:56:37 AM
If this does come about I'll sell the Pegasos and buy a cheap x86. I imagine WinUAE PPC will be a lot faster than the Pegasos and I'll be able to have more than 2GB of RAM and not have to worry about drivers for graphics cards etc :-)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 04, 2014, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: wawrzon;770199
Os4 doesnt need amiga hardware, on the contrary it depends on standard hardware and has been particularly ported to support amiga chipset. If anybody wanted it would be easier to use plain ppc emu alone instead trying to fit it within uae.

Adding it to uae makes sense as there are old amiga software that uses the ppc as well. For running OS4 in it's best configuration then an amiga probably isn't the best choice, but it's likely to be the easiest.
 
There is no such thing as "standard hardware" even in the PC world, you either make hardware that is compatible with some hardware that there is already a driver for or you write drivers to make the operating systems work with your hardware.
 
Whatever hardware you emulate it's got to be one of the specific configurations that os4 already runs on. Unless you're also going to start hacking os4.
 
Making a ppc emulator that interfaces directly to the hardware would be interesting, but without an operating system and an abstraction layer then you'll suffer the same lack of drivers that plagues hackintosh and to a lesser extent Linux.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: xeno74 on August 04, 2014, 11:04:13 AM
Hi All,

I'm testing Mac OS X on Mac-on-Linux and on QEMU on my A1-X1000. I have installed PearPC for a fast installation of OS X on my PC (Intel Xeon quad core 4x 2.93GHz). The PearPC ppc emulation acceleration is fantastic and impressive on my PC.

Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar shows me a G3 processor with 2.33GHz on PearPC. OS X/PPC is very fast on my PC.

(http://s23.postimg.org/3tkn862nr/Jaguar_on_Pear_PC.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/3tkn862nr/)

Unfortunately the Jaguar image doesn't boot on Mac-on-Linux and on QEMU with KVM on my A1-X1000. But it boots on QEMU without KVM kernel modul. Jaguar shows me 433 MHz without KVM on my A1-X1000.

(http://s10.postimg.org/q5knfc285/Qemu_Mac_OS_X_PA6_T_2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/q5knfc285/)

If WinUAE supports PPC emulation then I have a virtual CyberStorm PPC card with 2.33GHz on my PC. On my A1-X1000 I have 433MHz. 433MHz is not bad for a Classic Amiga.

This could be a big chance for Cloanto. Cloanto could offer an Amiga Forever with an OS4.1 Classic image. This would be a sensation.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 04, 2014, 12:32:31 PM
Quote from: xeno74;770241
This could be a big chance for Cloanto. Cloanto could offer an Amiga Forever with an OS4.1 Classic image. This would be a sensation.

It could be, it could also destroy the business model as without overpriced hardware there is no money for future OS4 development.
 
Once OS4 development has finished it will make a lot of sense though.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 04, 2014, 08:04:44 PM
Quote from: psxphill;770246
It could be, it could also destroy the business model as without overpriced hardware there is no money for future OS4 development.
 
Once OS4 development has finished it will make a lot of sense though.


lulz! Over priced hardware is the main reason many people left the "scene" years ago! the decision not to go ppc mac for os4 was suicide imho
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: xeno74 on August 06, 2014, 09:01:27 PM
Unexpected progress! (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=968101&postcount=210)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 06, 2014, 11:01:56 PM
Wow just wow. If this really happens wow (again)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: bloodline on August 06, 2014, 11:46:54 PM
Quote from: xeno74;770467
Unexpected progress! (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=968101&postcount=210)
I wasn't expecting this!
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 07, 2014, 12:47:16 AM
I thought that I read somewhere that emulating a PPC system on a x86 system would be unbearably slow?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: matthey on August 07, 2014, 02:39:56 AM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770509
I thought that I read somewhere that emulating a PPC system on a x86 system would be unbearably slow?


The newer x86 processors are x86_64. The x86_64 ISA gains 8 mostly general purpose registers and all 16 registers are now 64 bits. The x86_64 processors 16 registers still can't hold the PPC's 32 registers but it's a lot better situation than the x86. The x86/x86_64 register memory architecture can do some operations, especially in caches/memory faster than the PPC. The x86_64 processors now have huge caches as well. There was probably some truth that x86 emulation of PPC code would be slow at one time but that is probably less true with x86_64 processors today.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: donpalmera on August 07, 2014, 03:21:22 AM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770509
I thought that I read somewhere that emulating a PPC system on a x86 system would be unbearably slow?


What matthey said and:

Consider that you now have 3ghz+ x86 chips and presumably the intention is to emulate the BPPC or CSPPC which are 240MHz.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: persia on August 07, 2014, 03:46:30 AM
How does it handle the X86_64 cores?  Say you only have two cores and you run it, will  you get a 2 core PPC emulation?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 07, 2014, 06:46:08 AM
Quote from: persia;770521
How does it handle the X86_64 cores? Say you only have two cores and you run it, will you get a 2 core PPC emulation?

 What do you mean by "it"? A lot of emulators run everything using a single core.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: amigadave on August 07, 2014, 12:04:04 PM
When it comes to what Toni Wilen can accomplish, I guess we should get used to expecting the unexpected good results and faster than usual (specially compared to most Amiga projects) progress.

Toni, you are a Wizard!  Thanks for taking on this challenge and for all of the great work you have done to continue improvement on WinUAE.  I still remember the days when many Amiga users said that an accurate and useful emulation of the Amiga computer on any x86 computer was impossible, or would never happen.  Just like the many users who also stated that one programmer could not complete the design and coding of the MiniMig and a couple of other Amiga related projects that were thought impossible or improbable, before they became a reality.

Amiga users, hardware designers and programmers are amazing, which just proves the old saying "only Amiga makes it possible".

We still have an fantastic community of creative and smart people, even though we rarely agree on much of anything any more.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: KimmoK on August 07, 2014, 01:04:19 PM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770509
I thought that I read somewhere that emulating a PPC system on a x86 system would be unbearably slow?

Nintendo WII uses 733Mhz PPC.
Here is benchmark run natively on WII and on Dolphin (WII) emulator on x86:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7933/62699.png

So, with PPC JIT the CPU emulation "might be" fully usable with a fast x86.

(now... if AOS4 would be made to run on dolphin ... would it run also on real WII ... )
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 07, 2014, 02:45:14 PM
Quote from: KimmoK;770537
Nintendo WII uses 733Mhz PPC.
Here is benchmark run natively on WII and on Dolphin (WII) emulator on x86:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7933/62699.png

So, with PPC JIT the CPU emulation "might be" fully usable with a fast x86.

(now... if AOS4 would be made to run on dolphin ... would it run also on real WII ... )



Ok..now I remember.  It was PearPC I read the review about.  It must have been a long time ago.  At the time they said it was really slow.  

It would be VEERRRYYYY interesting if this new WinUAE can run OS 4.1.  I wonder how Hyperion would react to that.  Guess they wouldnt be too pissed if they sell more copies of OS 4.1.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Pentad on August 07, 2014, 03:08:43 PM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770509
I thought that I read somewhere that emulating a PPC system on a x86 system would be unbearably slow?


That must have a been a loooong time ago.

I was running PearPC with OS X on my Windows notebook in 2005.  I used it until I bought a Macbook Pro in 2006.  Dolphin runs great in my MBP now (both in Windows and OS X).



Cheers!
-P
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Nickman on August 07, 2014, 08:13:08 PM
Its out :D

WinUAE 2.8.2 beta 9 with PPC (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=968318&postcount=226)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 07, 2014, 09:37:00 PM
Quote from: Nickman;770562
Its out :D

WinUAE 2.8.2 beta 9 with PPC (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=968318&postcount=226)


Cool! I'm running a recent version of amiga forever can I just install it over that?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 08, 2014, 02:48:35 AM
Quote from: Nickman;770562
Its out :D

WinUAE 2.8.2 beta 9 with PPC (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=968318&postcount=226)


Can someone break this down as to what is can ACTUALLY RUN emulating a PPC Amiga?   I'm anxious to read the results.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: amoskodare on August 08, 2014, 03:40:45 AM
Quote from: yssing;770142
Any way I would get me a copy of AOS4 for classic ppc if winUAE could run it.
So count me in for an extra copy of AOS4!
+1

Count me in for an extra copy of OS4 too! :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 08, 2014, 04:02:00 AM
Quote from: amoskodare;770574
+1

Count me in for an extra copy of OS4 too! :)


Honestly... I'd buy a copy also.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Jeff on August 08, 2014, 06:02:24 AM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770571
Can someone break this down as to what is can ACTUALLY RUN emulating a PPC Amiga?   I'm anxious to read the results.


Try taking a look at this thread over on EAB about page 11 or 12 for some details as to what is actually running or not at the moment.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74263&page=11

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74263&page=12
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: amigadave on August 08, 2014, 08:51:08 AM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770576
Honestly... I'd buy a copy also.


Do any of you really believe that Hyperion is going to allow AmigaOS4.x to run on any emulator (if they have any way to prevent it, technically, or legally)?  It does not seem to be aligned with their market philosophy.

Edit:  Has Toni actually stated that any part of his work to include PPC emulation within WinUAE is being provided with the intent that it may some day be able to run AmigaOS4.x?  Maybe he is doing it only to allow the very few Amiga PPC software titles that were written for AmigaOS3.x and the Phase5 Blizzard and Cyberstorm accelerators, excluding AmigaOS4.x?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: bloodline on August 08, 2014, 09:08:47 AM
Quote from: Pentad;770545
That must have a been a loooong time ago.

I was running PearPC with OS X on my Windows notebook in 2005.  I used it until I bought a Macbook Pro in 2006.  Dolphin runs great in my MBP now (both in Windows and OS X).



Cheers!
-P
I ran PearPC for quite a while around 2004/2005ish, finally convinced me I could live with OSX
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Terminills on August 08, 2014, 09:41:17 AM
Quote from: amigadave;770584
Do any of you really believe that Hyperion is going to allow AmigaOS4.x to run on any emulator (if they have any way to prevent it, technically, or legally)?  It does not seem to be aligned with their market philosophy.

Hyperion doesn't have a leg to stand on legally to stop it.  At least in the United States.
See Sony v. Connectix

We could get in to the whole software patent issue with emulation but that's a whole new thread.
Quote
"There's no more questioning the
legality of emulation. Sony v. Connectix finally settles that issue once and for all. Both
developing and using an emulator are protected under the 'fair use' statute of copyright
law."

 As for technically I guess that depends on how accurate the emulation is.

Quote
Edit:  Has Toni actually stated that any part of his work to include PPC emulation within WinUAE is being provided with the intent that it may some day be able to run AmigaOS4.x?  Maybe he is doing it only to allow the very few Amiga PPC software titles that were written for AmigaOS3.x and the Phase5 Blizzard and Cyberstorm accelerators, excluding AmigaOS4.x?

Toni has stated he has no interest in making AOS4 run within Winuae however he is interested in properly emulating the hardware.  If the emulation is true to the hardware AOS4 classic will just run.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: bloodline on August 08, 2014, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: Terminills;770586

Toni has stated he has no interest in making AOS4 run within Winuae however he is interested in properly emulating the hardware.  If the emulation is true to the hardware AOS4 classic will just run.


Then it will just be up to Hyperion to release an update/patch to detect that their OS is running in an Emulator and refuse to boot.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Terminills on August 08, 2014, 10:44:30 AM
Quote from: bloodline;770587
Then it will just be up to Hyperion to release an update/patch to detect that their OS is running in an Emulator and refuse to boot.



That only stops future versions. :P
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: danwood on August 08, 2014, 11:09:37 AM
Quote from: amigadave;770584
Do any of you really believe that Hyperion is going to allow AmigaOS4.x to run on any emulator (if they have any way to prevent it, technically, or legally)?  It does not seem to be aligned with their market philosophy.

Why wouldn't they?  Honestly, it sometimes seems like the Os4 community do everything they can to actively discourage new users.  

At least MorphOS 1.x is still downloadable for free iirc. so that may be available to WinUAE users.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: danwood on August 08, 2014, 11:13:25 AM
Quote from: bloodline;770587
Then it will just be up to Hyperion to release an update/patch to detect that their OS is running in an Emulator and refuse to boot.


Again, for what possible reason?!  Surely a new user to the platform and the money from OS4.1 classic is a "good thing"?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: xeno74 on August 08, 2014, 11:48:32 AM
It would be nice to see OS4.1 Classic in the Amiga Forever package.
I  think, this won't be a problem for the NG Amigas with PPC cpus. The new  Cyrus+ boards are very interessting and it's impressive to see a  Freescale cpu on the desktop board. For me it's more exciting to see  OS4.1 and Linux on the Cyrus+ boards.
But don't worry, I'll furthermore support Linux for A1-X1000. We have a lot of work to do for the A1-X1000.

Back to the topic. (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)

I would pay much more money for an Amiga Forever package with OS4.1 Classic. (http://amigaworld.net/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 08, 2014, 12:35:30 PM
Quote from: bloodline;770587
Then it will just be up to Hyperion to release an update/patch to detect that their OS is running in an Emulator and refuse to boot.


Eh...then dont apply the patch.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 08, 2014, 12:36:51 PM
Quote from: danwood;770590
Why wouldn't they?  Honestly, it sometimes seems like the Os4 community do everything they can to actively discourage new users.  

At least MorphOS 1.x is still downloadable for free iirc. so that may be available to WinUAE users.

This is all just speculation.  But I suspect that OS4 would run if emulation is accurate.



Quote from: Jeff;770578
Try taking a look at this thread over on EAB about page 11 or 12 for some details as to what is actually running or not at the moment.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74263&page=11

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74263&page=12


Nice.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: yssing on August 08, 2014, 03:15:36 PM
And why would hyperion stop more sales of AOS4?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: number6 on August 08, 2014, 03:23:37 PM
Quote from: danwood;770590
Why wouldn't they?  Honestly, it sometimes seems like the Os4 community do everything they can to actively discourage new users.



I think comparing protectionism from the community with protectionism from the "owners" is 2 quite different things.
Let's not pin this on the devs/users/contributors/fans please.

#6
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: eliyahu on August 08, 2014, 03:39:37 PM
Quote from: danwood;770591
Again, for what possible reason?!  Surely a new user to the platform and the money from OS4.1 classic is a "good thing"?
absolutely! i'd pay double for a license that would let me run on winUAE. i'd finally have that amiga laptop i've been waiting on for so long. ;)

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: nicholas on August 08, 2014, 05:43:10 PM
I wonder which will arrive first?  OS4 running on WinUAE with PearPC JIT or MorphOS 3.x running on QEMU with JIT that the Hungarian guy is working on?

Either way, bye bye overpriced and outdated hardware! :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 08, 2014, 06:01:25 PM
Quote from: nicholas;770618
I wonder which will arrive first?  OS4 running on WinUAE with PearPC JIT or MorphOS 3.x running on QEMU with JIT that the Hungarian guy is working on?

Either way, bye bye overpriced and outdated hardware! :)


Link?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: pampers on August 08, 2014, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770620
Link?

Not sure if that's the latest news: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/qemu-ppc/2014-06/msg00000.html
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 08, 2014, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: pampers;770621
Not sure if that's the latest news: http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/qemu-ppc/2014-06/msg00000.html


thats also very interesting!!
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 08, 2014, 06:49:38 PM
Quote from: bloodline;770587
Then it will just be up to Hyperion to release an update/patch to detect that their OS is running in an Emulator and refuse to boot.

What if someone writes an emulator that isn't detectable? 100% compatibility means that software cannot tell they aren't running on real hardware.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Linde on August 08, 2014, 07:30:37 PM
Quote from: amigadave;770584
Do any of you really believe that Hyperion is going to allow AmigaOS4.x to run on any emulator (if they have any way to prevent it, technically, or legally)?  It does not seem to be aligned with their market philosophy.


Yeah, just like what Nintendo did with the Wii, or what Sony did with the Playstation 2. Those two gigantic corporation, primarily interested in selling hardware, sure evaporated any way to viably emulate their systems.

Except they didn't, despite both spending tons of money engineering elaborate copy protection systems and expert lawyers.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Ancalimon on August 08, 2014, 07:52:40 PM
Quote from: amigadave;770584
Do any of you really believe that Hyperion is going to allow AmigaOS4.x to run on any emulator (if they have any way to prevent it, technically, or legally)?  It does not seem to be aligned with their market philosophy.

Edit:  Has Toni actually stated that any part of his work to include PPC emulation within WinUAE is being provided with the intent that it may some day be able to run AmigaOS4.x?  Maybe he is doing it only to allow the very few Amiga PPC software titles that were written for AmigaOS3.x and the Phase5 Blizzard and Cyberstorm accelerators, excluding AmigaOS4.x?


Since everyone who has one of those ppc cards already have AmigaOS4, it would only allow Hyperion to sell more copies of AmigaOS4. So I think they should be paying Toni Wilen so that he can support the cards. :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: amigadave on August 08, 2014, 08:15:41 PM
Quote from: Ancalimon;770626
Since everyone who has one of those ppc cards already have AmigaOS4, it would only allow Hyperion to sell more copies of AmigaOS4. So I think they should be paying Toni Wilen so that he can support the cards. :)

I don't disagree with your statement at all.  I think that Hyperion should take advantage of any chance they have to sell more copies and fund further development of AmigaOS4.x.  My question is "will they"?

Their past decisions make me question what they might do with this latest bit of coding work on WinUAE, and how they will react.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Hyperion has to say about it, IF Toni is able to modify WinUAE to fully emulate those Phase5 boards.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 08, 2014, 10:31:52 PM
Quote from: Linde;770625

Except they didn't, despite both spending tons of money engineering elaborate copy protection systems and expert lawyers.


Expert lawyers? LMAO and who was that exactly?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Duce on August 09, 2014, 04:20:08 AM
I believe he was referring to Sony and etc., Magnetic.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: DaNi on August 09, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
can be good add ppc emulation to winuae but this is a lot of hard work to emulate a 60x ppc cpu, i think a good idea is make a bounty to Toni to do this job to run os4 classic edition on a future Winuae
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: kamelito on August 09, 2014, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: amigadave;770628
I don't disagree with your statement at all.  I think that Hyperion should take advantage of any chance they have to sell more copies and fund further development of AmigaOS4.x.  My question is "will they"?

There past decisions make me question what they might do with this latest bit of coding work on WinUAE, and how they will react.

I guess we will just have to wait and see what Hyperion has to say about it, IF Toni is able to modify WinUAE to fully emulate those Phase5 boards.

If they wanted to do it they would have given Tony all the details they have about the PPC classic HW and not have let him do reverse engineering IMHO.

Kamelito
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: yssing on August 09, 2014, 02:18:26 PM
Did he ask for the information?
Why this constant need to belittle hyperion work?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: donpalmera on August 09, 2014, 02:24:19 PM
Quote from: kamelito;770662
If they wanted to do it they would have given Tony all the details they have about the PPC classic HW and not have let him do reverse engineering IMHO.

Kamelito


Maybe they received the information under NDA or similar? Maybe Toni hasn't asked for the information because he wants to reverse engineer it for himself. Considering how pointless the BPPC and CSPPC turned out to be I suspect trying to emulate them is just for the lolz and not really a serious effort to reach 100% perfect emulation.

I'm not sure why some of you guys always need to make someone out as the hero and everyone else (even if they aren't remotely involved) as the bad guys(TM).
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on August 09, 2014, 03:45:55 PM
Quote from: donpalmera;770664
Maybe they received the information under NDA or similar?


WinUAE is a public document itself so I doubt it ;-)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: donpalmera on August 09, 2014, 03:57:56 PM
Quote from: itix;770665
WinUAE is a public document itself so I doubt it ;-)


Why would Toni give himself information about something he needs* information about?

*according to other people
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: persia on August 10, 2014, 05:59:52 AM
Can we get Morphos to run on it?

(http://i.imgur.com/xHzEW6L.gif)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on August 10, 2014, 07:18:17 AM
Quote from: persia;770695
Can we get Morphos to run on it?


Yes it already boots but stops at unimplemented instruction it seems.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on August 10, 2014, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: kamelito;770662
If they wanted to do it they would have given Tony all the details they have about the PPC classic HW and not have let him do reverse engineering IMHO.

If they wanted to do it they'd just do it. I never looked at PowerUP/WarpUP/AmigaOS 4 on classic PPC, but they might not know enough about the hardware to emulate it properly 100% anyway. Of course they have better things to do with their time than help someone write an emulator when their business model is purely based around selling high priced hardware.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: skolman on August 10, 2014, 06:58:15 PM
beta 10 link (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=968882&postcount=332)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Retrofan on August 14, 2014, 07:17:56 PM
(http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=40988&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1408039565)

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=969696&postcount=12
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 14, 2014, 07:20:47 PM
so if I understand that image... OS4.1 boots up and runs under UAE w/the PPC emulator code?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Retrofan on August 14, 2014, 07:24:50 PM
You've got in the post a link to open and where to praise Toni the lord.

Is this Thread http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74710
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 14, 2014, 07:26:31 PM
Quote from: Retrofan;770903
You've got in the post a link to open and where to praise Toni the lord.


I just wanted to make sure I saw the contents of that link properly... damn...that is just bad ass.  I cant believe we actually have PPC emulation under WinUAE.  I have a local Amiga user up in Austin that has OS4.1....hmmmmmm...
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on August 14, 2014, 07:46:09 PM
Quote from: Retrofan;770901
(http://eab.abime.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=40988&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1408039565)

http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=969696&postcount=12


Thanks for the link, glad to see that aos4 runs on the winuae :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TeamBlackFox on August 14, 2014, 08:21:31 PM
I tend to shy away from emulation. Hence why I don't use UAE, AmigaForever etc. The only systems I do emulate currently are PC-9821 and PSP. All others I have perfectly capable systems to run anything I want. I'd get into the whole " Why run Amiga on x86 hardware when there are significantly better alternatives " but I'm starting to think that to be an Amiga fan you need to have a degree of insanity, which I definitely meet the definition on.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on August 14, 2014, 09:39:41 PM
I have downloaded the latest beta but how do I set it up with PPC support? Or am I just being a numpty?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: F0LLETT on August 14, 2014, 09:53:33 PM
Quote from: carvedeye;770910
I have downloaded the latest beta but how do I set it up with PPC support? Or am I just being a numpty?


Dont think that beta has been released yet.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ddniUK on August 14, 2014, 09:54:07 PM
I was wondering about MorphOS on WinUAE, then I read this.
http://powerup.morphos-team.net/terms.html

1. Every component of the  MorphOS PowerUP Free Edition may only be used on PowerPC accelerator  cards by phase5/DCE. Usage on any other hardware and/or inside of  emulation environments is strictly forbidden.

Is this limitation still valid?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on August 14, 2014, 10:41:28 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;770912
Dont think that beta has been released yet.


I thought the link that skolman provided was the beta?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 14, 2014, 10:56:14 PM
Quote from: carvedeye;770910
I have downloaded the latest beta but how do I set it up with PPC support? Or am I just being a numpty?


You're being a numpty? :) wtf is a a numpty? lulz
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on August 14, 2014, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: magnetic;770920
You're being a numpty? :) wtf is a a numpty? lulz


A numpty is a silly billy :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Pentad on August 14, 2014, 11:20:12 PM
Quote from: ddniUK;770913
I was wondering about MorphOS on WinUAE, then I read this.
http://powerup.morphos-team.net/terms.html

1. Every component of the  MorphOS PowerUP Free Edition may only be used on PowerPC accelerator  cards by phase5/DCE. Usage on any other hardware and/or inside of  emulation environments is strictly forbidden.

Is this limitation still valid?


Good luck enforcing that.  Apple tried that line as well and here in the US that is pretty hard to enforce.  If a person purchases a product say OS X or MorphOS they have broad freedom of where to run it.

If I buy MorphOS and decide to run in under WinUAE in the privacy of my home there isn't much that MorphOS can do about it.

The developers of MorphOS -if they were smart- would try to find a way to make money off of WinUAE users.

Adding protection and suing your customers never really works in situations like this.

WinUAE could actually increase MorphOS sales.  The last thing they want to do is piss off potential customers who will end up pirating the software out of want or spite.

-P
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: magnetic on August 14, 2014, 11:26:42 PM
Pentad

Its Powerup FREE edition you dont need to reg it afaik.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TeamBlackFox on August 15, 2014, 12:20:37 AM
Pentad,

You do realize MorphOS isn't supported on Amiga PowerUP cards anymore right? All you have is the legacy 1.4 release which as Magnetic said, is free.

In broader perspective, even if Amiga derivatives ran on commodity hardware you'd have the same issue faced by GNU/Linux and BSD on a larger scale: Lack of drivers due to developers being limited to small sets of motherboards and combination setups. And because the majority of Amiga users cannot code at all, you're going to have the same people bitching and moaning about their hardware being unsupported, and since x86 hardware is pretty much junk ( I've had 3 out of the 7 machines I have owned in the last 2 years die or in some cases catch fire ) in terms of build quality any attempt to make "Amigas" via custom built boxes that are 100% supported will be cost ineffective.

I had a colleague of mine in college who has a Pegasos II which has been running 24/7 for nearly 10 years with no failures as a server. He has gone through 4 desktops in the same period and cost himself nearly 3 times the amount the Pegasos II G4 cost from initial investment. He now is building a refurb  POWER 5 server and adding a video card to make a workstation. Too costly for me personally, but I think he will get his money's worth before it dies.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: OlafS3 on August 15, 2014, 09:08:41 AM
Quote from: TeamBlackFox;770928
Pentad,

You do realize MorphOS isn't supported on Amiga PowerUP cards anymore right? All you have is the legacy 1.4 release which as Magnetic said, is free.

In broader perspective, even if Amiga derivatives ran on commodity hardware you'd have the same issue faced by GNU/Linux and BSD on a larger scale: Lack of drivers due to developers being limited to small sets of motherboards and combination setups. And because the majority of Amiga users cannot code at all, you're going to have the same people bitching and moaning about their hardware being unsupported, and since x86 hardware is pretty much junk ( I've had 3 out of the 7 machines I have owned in the last 2 years die or in some cases catch fire ) in terms of build quality any attempt to make "Amigas" via custom built boxes that are 100% supported will be cost ineffective.

I had a colleague of mine in college who has a Pegasos II which has been running 24/7 for nearly 10 years with no failures as a server. He has gone through 4 desktops in the same period and cost himself nearly 3 times the amount the Pegasos II G4 cost from initial investment. He now is building a refurb  POWER 5 server and adding a video card to make a workstation. Too costly for me personally, but I think he will get his money's worth before it dies.

The developers of Arix are solving the driver limitations by using one of your hated linux kernels. And I have to say that I know a lot of people owning X86, using it on desktop and/or server with none catching fire so calling it "junk" is nonsense. You have a huge market with lots of different components you can choice from so if you need something 24/7 you use different components. And I have one customer where a normal "junk" PC run since 2006 24/7 without any failure or "catching fire".
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Senex on August 15, 2014, 09:14:53 AM
Quote from: magnetic;770925
Its Powerup FREE edition you dont need to reg it afaik.


According to the homepage it is time-limited like the main edition, just that one has two hours per session.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: pVC on August 15, 2014, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: Senex;770945
According to the homepage it is time-limited like the main edition, just that one has two hours per session.


The registration to get it unlimited was free, but I think registration server has been down for a while now.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: jj on August 15, 2014, 12:49:47 PM
I thought they had put the server back up recently or was it just for a limited time
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ToddH on August 15, 2014, 04:06:07 PM
Quote from: OlafS3;770943
The developers of Arix are solving the driver limitations by using one of your hated linux kernels. And I have to say that I know a lot of people owning X86, using it on desktop and/or server with none catching fire so calling it "junk" is nonsense. You have a huge market with lots of different components you can choice from so if you need something 24/7 you use different components. And I have one customer where a normal "junk" PC run since 2006 24/7 without any failure or "catching fire".


I'm the lone IT person at a large government office. I take care of 100's of x86 machines and not once over the years have I ever had a machine catch fire. X86 machines these days are far from junk. And I'm also looking forward to what the Arix guys come up with.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 15, 2014, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: TeamBlackFox;770928
Pentad,


and since x86 hardware is pretty much junk ( I've had 3 out of the 7 machines I have owned in the last 2 years die or in some cases catch fire )


I have never in my entire life had any sort of computer catch fire, ever.  I've never ever had a computer "just die" either.  Looks like you're buying from shady places or people.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 15, 2014, 04:39:55 PM
Quote from: Ancalimon;770626
Since everyone who has one of those ppc cards already have AmigaOS4, it would only allow Hyperion to sell more copies of AmigaOS4. So I think they should be paying Toni Wilen so that he can support the cards. :)

If OS4.x ends up running perfect under WinUAE...out of curiosity...how much is OS4 ?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: pVC on August 15, 2014, 04:54:19 PM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770962
If OS4.x ends up running perfect under WinUAE...out of curiosity...how much is OS4 ?


Quickly looking something like 100-130e depending from where you order it, but I think the more important question is if you can get it even if you have the money. I know couple of people who have been waiting their OS4.1/Peg2 version for a year or so from the retailer. Apparently they don't have much in stock or batches are rare...
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: spirantho on August 15, 2014, 05:04:02 PM
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035

About 90 EUR , in stock, apparently.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: OlafS3 on August 15, 2014, 05:38:24 PM
Quote from: spirantho;770966
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035

About 90 EUR , in stock, apparently.

it is a little pricey for my taste, at least if it runs on WinUAE. Official they say price must be that high because of the small market, if now the potential market becomes much bigger (without them doing anything for it) at least the classic version should be lowered in price.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: OlafS3 on August 15, 2014, 05:39:34 PM
Quote from: TheMagicM;770962
If OS4.x ends up running perfect under WinUAE...out of curiosity...how much is OS4 ?

100% OS4 running in Emulation
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: pVC on August 15, 2014, 05:56:43 PM
Quote from: spirantho;770966
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035

About 90 EUR , in stock, apparently.


Hmm.. for me it says €104.09 there...
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Templario on August 15, 2014, 06:09:50 PM
Well to test projects under WarpOS, MorphOS and OS4.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: spirantho on August 15, 2014, 07:10:36 PM
I was a little out of date. :) Yes, it's slightly over 100 Euros.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: persia on August 15, 2014, 08:42:52 PM
If someone gives me a way to run OS 4 on intel I'll gladly pay £81.96 for it.

(http://mtv.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:public.articles.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Pycelle.gif)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: spirantho on August 15, 2014, 08:46:19 PM
Looks like you can already. :) I would wait for the JIT version first, though. The current version is incredibly slow.

I really hope most people DO buy it, and don't just pirate it....
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Themamboman on August 15, 2014, 09:43:59 PM
Scout showed my PPC running at 3Mhz :)

JIT will definitely be needed in the future.

I've already ordered AmigaOS4.1 Classic before everyone hears about this new feature and rushes to buy the remaining stock.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: billt on August 15, 2014, 11:48:52 PM
Quote from: spirantho;770979
I really hope most people DO buy it, and don't just pirate it....


I just paid US$118.16 for it, plus shipping.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: wawrzon on August 16, 2014, 12:09:47 AM
just dont go and blame toni later after it wasnt worth the money ;p
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Hans_ on August 16, 2014, 12:21:34 AM
Quote from: Themamboman;770983
Scout showed my PPC running at 3Mhz :)


If only I still had my ZX Sinclair. Then I could say that my ZX Sinclair has more MHz than your (emulated) PPC. :D

Hans
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: billt on August 16, 2014, 12:47:00 AM
Quote from: wawrzon;770991
just dont go and blame toni later after it wasnt worth the money ;p


eh, if winuae doesn't do 4.1 classic then i'll dig out my 4000t with csppc... i think i had got 4.0 for that some time ago. have to find and check someday.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Retrofan on August 16, 2014, 07:29:27 PM
The beta 11 (that finally can run OS4.1 for example) has been released: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=970118&postcount=457

Remember this is Beta and it's "Just working" for the fist time.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Thorham on August 16, 2014, 09:22:46 PM
Quote from: Hans_;770992
If only I still had my ZX Sinclair. Then I could say that my ZX Sinclair has more MHz than your (emulated) PPC. :D

Hans
Yes, but even a 1 mhz PPC processor would still be a good bit faster than a 3 Mhz Z80 ;)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Hans_ on August 16, 2014, 10:30:35 PM
Quote from: Thorham;771020
Yes, but even a 1 mhz PPC processor would still be a good bit faster than a 3 Mhz Z80 ;)


Shut up Thorham. I refuse to let facts get in the way of my bragging rights! :p

Hans
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Themamboman on August 18, 2014, 08:19:56 PM
Is anyone having problems reaching the EAB website?  I saw that beta 12 was available this morning but when I went back to download, it was gone.

I think Toni said that PearPC's powerpc cpu was a dead end and it didn't sound like he was going to try to get the JIT version working.  I think he's going to try to get QEMU's powerpc working.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Retrofan on August 18, 2014, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: Themamboman;771125
Is anyone having problems reaching the EAB website?  I saw that beta 12 was available this morning but when I went back to download, it was gone.

I think Toni said that PearPC's powerpc cpu was a dead end and it didn't sound like he was going to try to get the JIT version working.  I think he's going to try to get QEMU's powerpc working.

Beta 12 is here http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=970403&postcount=481

Now that you comment about QEMU, I believe more donations should be done as it looks as a difficult task with a lot of work. He wants it to run right and fast and it seems it has to be him alone to make it.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: amigadave on August 19, 2014, 02:42:56 AM
Quote from: Retrofan;771018
The beta 11 (that finally can run OS4.1 for example) has been released: http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=970118&postcount=457

Remember this is Beta and it's "Just working" for the fist time.

Are you sure about your statement above?  

I read through the thread on EAB and all I could see is that one or two people got the AmigaOS4.x flash screen to show up for a few seconds, before the emulation crashed, froze up, or went black screen.  I have not read that anyone has gotten AmigaOS4.0, or 4.1 for Classic running on WinUAE yet, but maybe I need to read the thread again, or maybe someone just posted some new information today that I have not seen yet.

If you are not running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE yourself, please be careful not to spread false rumors.  I would hate to see several people go out and buy AmigaOS4.1 for Classic thinking that they are going to be able to run it on WinUAE, only to find out that it is not running yet, or worse that it might never be able to run completely bug free on WinUAE.  Not trying to dispute what you wrote, just saying that when I read that thread, I did not see any definite claims that AmigaOS4.x is now running completely on WinUAE.

I suggest caution and patience, until we have several confirmed reports from different people who have been successful in running AmigaOS4.1 for Classic on WinUAE.

Edit:  Well, I guess that thread is moving too fast for me.  Maybe some people are running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE.  Too much info for me to keep up with, since I am not really interested in running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE at this time.  Maybe in a year or two that will change, but for now, I think I will stick to using my X1000 for running AmigaOS4.x.  Forgive me for doubting your statement about anyone successfully running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE.  I still don't know how successful or how fast it is under emulation, but I imagine that if/when it becomes as fast, or faster than running in on a SAM system, then we will see more people using WinUAE to run AmigaOS4.x.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on August 19, 2014, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: amigadave;771149
Are you sure about your statement above?  

I read through the thread on EAB and all I could see is that one or two people got the AmigaOS4.x flash screen to show up for a few seconds, before the emulation crashed, froze up, or went black screen.  I have not read that anyone has gotten AmigaOS4.0, or 4.1 for Classic running on WinUAE yet, but maybe I need to read the thread again, or maybe someone just posted some new information today that I have not seen yet.

Quote
If you are not running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE yourself, please be careful not to spread false rumors.  I would hate to see several people go out and buy AmigaOS4.1 for Classic thinking that they are going to be able to run it on WinUAE, only to find out that it is not running yet, or worse that it might never be able to run completely bug free on WinUAE.

It does not matter.

I dont think you are going to see that because running PPC OS in WinUAE has only limited interest. AmigaOS 3 has more software and 68k emulation is much faster when WinUAE is concerned. OS4 (and MorphOS) is just filling small niche there for Amiga users. OS4 is not going to hit big on WinUAE and it is more like cheap choice of platform to OS4 community in the future.

Anyway, it does run on WinUAE, to some extent. As long as unimplemented PPC instructions are not executed in emulation it works. You can boot to full Workbench and run some software.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Terminills on August 19, 2014, 01:17:19 PM
Quote from: amigadave;771149
Are you sure about your statement above?  

I read through the thread on EAB and all I could see is that one or two people got the AmigaOS4.x flash screen to show up for a few seconds, before the emulation crashed, froze up, or went black screen.  I have not read that anyone has gotten AmigaOS4.0, or 4.1 for Classic running on WinUAE yet, but maybe I need to read the thread again, or maybe someone just posted some new information today that I have not seen yet.

If you are not running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE yourself, please be careful not to spread false rumors.  I would hate to see several people go out and buy AmigaOS4.1 for Classic thinking that they are going to be able to run it on WinUAE, only to find out that it is not running yet, or worse that it might never be able to run completely bug free on WinUAE.  Not trying to dispute what you wrote, just saying that when I read that thread, I did not see any definite claims that AmigaOS4.x is now running completely on WinUAE.

I suggest caution and patience, until we have several confirmed reports from different people who have been successful in running AmigaOS4.1 for Classic on WinUAE.

Edit:  Well, I guess that thread is moving too fast for me.  Maybe some people are running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE.  Too much info for me to keep up with, since I am not really interested in running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE at this time.  Maybe in a year or two that will change, but for now, I think I will stick to using my X1000 for running AmigaOS4.x.  Forgive me for doubting your statement about anyone successfully running AmigaOS4.x on WinUAE.  I still don't know how successful or how fast it is under emulation, but I imagine that if/when it becomes as fast, or faster than running in on a SAM system, then we will see more people using WinUAE to run AmigaOS4.x.



Did you even read the change notes?
Quote

Beta 11:

- P5_AMIGA_RESET CSMK3/CSPPC/BPPC bit can be only changed if P5_SELF_RESET is cleared first.
- Never use normal Z3 autoconfig mapping if Blizzard board is emulated to reduce address space conflicts with Blizzard RAM mirror at 0x48000000. Note that this is impossible config, there is no way to have any Z3 boards with BPPC in real world.
- Blizzard PPC rom name renamed to blizzardppc_060.rom and added blizzardppc_040.rom. 68040 and 68060 variants have different (and incompatible) flash rom contents.
- 68000 + no cycle exact and no "more compatible" used wrong memory access method. (b9)
- RTD instruction was set as 68000 compatible (should be 68010+). Incorrect since the beginning.
- Accelerator board ROM select menus didn't select anything.
- Added full CyberStorm MK1 image ($F00000 ROM code is 68060-only), added another 68040 compatible ROM that simulates boards with boot rom jumper disabled or boot rom chip removed. (Original non-flash based boards had separate ROM chip for boot and diag ROMs and boot was only installed if CPU was 68060)
- CyberStorm MK1 SCSI works again.
- Automatically update accelerator board ROM settings when board type is changed in GUI.
- PPC BAT register handling fixed (Technically not emulation bug but OS bug, PPC documentation says '... BEPI and BRPN fields must have at least as many low-order zeros as there are ones in BL.', BEPI and BRPN needs to be masked with BL instead of trusting software doing as documentation says..)
- Added missing PearPC divwu, divwuo, addco, subfco PPC instructions. (Variants of already existing instructions).

Last two updates allows AmigaOS 4.1 Classic to boot.


Above was direct from Toni
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: IconX on August 19, 2014, 02:03:01 PM
Would it be possible for the emulation to be modified so that it ignores the instruction from OS4 to disable the 68k? And if so, would that allow OS4 to run 68k software without needing to run UAE for OS4 within WinUAE?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 19, 2014, 02:51:51 PM
Any version of OS 4.1 will work?  Sam440 or even A1?  (Dunno much about os4).  I have a friend somewhat close to me that has OS4.1
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Terminills on August 19, 2014, 02:52:52 PM
Quote from: TheMagicM;771193
Any version of OS 4.1 will work?  Sam440 or even A1?  (Dunno much about os4).  I have a friend somewhat close to me that has OS4.1



No 4.1 Classic is the only version that will work.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: TheMagicM on August 19, 2014, 02:59:38 PM
Quote from: Terminills;771194
No 4.1 Classic is the only version that will work.


Ok..well looks like I wont be trying it out afterall.  I'll monitor progress from afar.  :-)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: eliyahu on September 02, 2014, 06:53:06 PM
@thread

looks like toni is moving to QEMU faster than expected. here's his latest update (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=973493&postcount=575) over on EAB:

Quote
QEMU PPC is still work in progress (by Frode and me), QEMU-side is not  yet included. It run for the first time few days ago. It is not stable  enough yet but hopefully soon...
for those of us who've been playing with PPC support on our PCs, this is great news. OS4.1 runs fine once you disable petunia, but painfully slow. QEMU should help address this somewhat. i can't wait to have my laptop running SUSE, AOS4, and AROS with reasonable performance. sweeeeet.

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: eliyahu on September 08, 2014, 05:02:27 PM
@thread

yet more progress on QEMU integration from toni over on EAB (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=974647&postcount=289):

Quote
Inter-thread messaging bottle-neck is now mostly gone.
cybppc.device (CSPPC built-in SCSI) works under OS4
Media Toolbox works.
Installing works.
Installing still takes forever (about 1 hour). See below. (But as I mentioned previously, boot image fade is now really fast)

Need to be fixed before public version:

All timers seem to run really fast (20x+), key repeat is instant, floppy  clicks really fast. Probably (and hopefully) explains remaining  performance problems. (It is possible huge number of timer interrupts  takes most of remaining CPU time..)

QEMU seems to have multiple timer emulation modes but they are all quite difficult to understand..

"Unfortunately" PPC CPU has built-in counter + interrupt when it  underflows, count rate is bus clock / 4, apparently this counter is used  for OS4 timer.device. Possibly detection of bus clock is also wrong.       
-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: klesterjr on September 17, 2014, 02:03:03 PM
A (very) quick video recorded this morning using VLC of 4.1 booting via WinUAE. I don't really do much in the video, but it gives you an idea of what it runs like speedwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k_F6CTKAbg&list=UUBhXSqRJLZ-VKglVReGk3AQ
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on September 17, 2014, 02:44:46 PM
Are there any working betas available to try, if there is how does you set it up with PPC?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Pyromania on September 17, 2014, 03:03:42 PM
@klesterjr

Nice video!
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: kolla on September 17, 2014, 03:29:52 PM
Appears to be well fast enough for normal use :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Themamboman on September 17, 2014, 03:44:03 PM
Quote from: carvedeye;773233
Are there any working betas available to try, if there is how does you set it up with PPC?


Yes, beta 16 here:
http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=975726&postcount=638

QEMU PPC files here:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75062

For tutorials, read the threads on EAB board, or this post:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74776
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: klesterjr on September 17, 2014, 10:18:35 PM
Quote from: kolla;773236
Appears to be well fast enough for normal use :)


Definitely! Now let's sell out AmigaKit's stock of 4.1 Classic! :D

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on September 17, 2014, 10:41:12 PM
Quote from: Themamboman;773237
For tutorials, read the threads on EAB board, or this post:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=74776

 
I am having problems when trying to install this beta, I have followed the guide lines to a T but no luck, the problem I am having is creating the hdf file, I have went to quick start chose amiga 1200 stock version created the .hdf, mounted the install disk enabled RDB and selected IDE0 from the drop won menue. When I goto change drive type in HDToolBox there is no drive and Define new is Greyed out?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: kickstart on September 17, 2014, 11:01:08 PM
Quote from: klesterjr;773265
Definitely! Now let's sell out AmigaKit's stock of 4.1 Classic! :D

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035


104€ for a simple uae test is a bit expensive and is a bit hard to find in other ways.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on September 17, 2014, 11:06:36 PM
You will be able to switch between OS3.1 and OS 4.1 in a second. It may not be hardware, but it will be fun.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: haywirepc on September 18, 2014, 04:09:12 AM
Its about time. Hopefully, they will allow 4.2 to run on this eventually...

I would never pay 1000$+ for hardware until I've had a chance to really test drive the system.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Heiroglyph on September 18, 2014, 05:58:47 AM
Looks like FS-UAE is getting in on the PPC action as well.

http://fs-uae.net/2014/09/17/fs-uae-2-5-15dev-released

It makes sense, he's doing much of the QEMU PPC work I believe.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: tommysammy on September 18, 2014, 06:50:26 AM
Quote from: kickstart;773267
104€ for a simple uae test is a bit expensive and is a bit hard to find in other ways.

Yeah people like you have to be paid to try Os4.1 Classic, right?:mad:
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: OlafS3 on September 18, 2014, 10:24:27 AM
Quote from: tommysammy;773280
Yeah people like you have to be paid to try Os4.1 Classic, right?:mad:

Like someone asking for money to show his X1000? :)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 18, 2014, 11:10:16 AM
Quote from: tommysammy;773280
Yeah people like you have to be paid to try Os4.1 Classic, right?:mad:


Quote from: OlafS3;773288
Like someone asking for money to show his X1000? :)


Please try and stay on topic.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Rotzloeffel on September 18, 2014, 12:33:10 PM
Quote from: OlafS3;773288
Like someone asking for money to show his X1000? :)

you are a bad man Olaf :hammer::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

the magic 86 :laugh1:
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 18, 2014, 12:37:14 PM
Quote from: Rotzloeffel;773300
you are a bad man Olaf :hammer::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

the magic 86 :laugh1:

I just told them both, so why try to stir it up.
Stay on topic.

Quote from: carvedeye;773266
I am having problems when trying to install this beta, I have followed the guide lines to a T but no luck, the problem I am having is creating the hdf file, I have went to quick start chose amiga 1200 stock version created the .hdf, mounted the install disk enabled RDB and selected IDE0 from the drop won menue. When I goto change drive type in HDToolBox there is no drive and Define new is Greyed out?

That guide is old now, you dont need to do it in 3.9 anymore. Just run the installer and use media toolbox.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: carvedeye on September 18, 2014, 03:21:03 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;773301
I just told them both, so why try to stir it up.
Stay on topic.



That guide is old now, you dont need to do it in 3.9 anymore. Just run the installer and use media toolbox.


I'm not using AOS 3.9?
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 18, 2014, 06:03:55 PM
Quote from: carvedeye;773303
I'm not using AOS 3.9?


Check my post on EAB, seems toni missed my reply to and said the same thing.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ssolie on September 18, 2014, 07:45:59 PM
Quote from: klesterjr;773265
Definitely! Now let's sell out AmigaKit's stock of 4.1 Classic! :D

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1035

Sounds like a great plan to me.

I'm looking forward to meeting up at AmiWest (http://www.amiwest.net) and seeing in person how well it runs for you.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: kickstart on September 18, 2014, 11:00:03 PM
Quote from: OlafS3;773288
Like someone asking for money to show his X1000? :)


No sorry, like you can understand paid more than 100€ just for use anything on a emulator... its more "amigish" to copy it, better with x-copy ;)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 19, 2014, 09:10:36 AM
Quote from: kickstart;773342
No sorry, like you can understand paid more than 100€ just for use anything on a emulator... its more "amigish" to copy it, better with x-copy ;)


Again, please stay on topic. It seems there are a few, who insist on stiring up trouble for no reason at all.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on September 19, 2014, 10:31:33 AM
Quote from: F0LLETT;773299
Please try and stay on topic.


Kickstart has a point. It is quite expensive to pay 104 EUR only to try OS4. Amiga Forever is sold at 40 EUR. It could be good idea to create free downloadable version and maybe let it timeout after few hours to motivate potential customers.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: LiveForIt on September 19, 2014, 11:28:11 AM
Quote from: itix;773364
Kickstart has a point. It is quite expensive to pay 104 EUR only to try OS4. Amiga Forever is sold at 40 EUR. It could be good idea to create free downloadable version and maybe let it timeout after few hours to motivate potential customers.

I like the way Blizzard store works.

I don’t need the CD nor the manual as physical object, it’s a lot easier to log in to blizzard to download Starcraft the it is to find the CD some where in my apartment.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: F0LLETT on September 19, 2014, 12:15:15 PM
Quote from: itix;773364
Kickstart has a point. It is quite expensive to pay 104 EUR only to try OS4. Amiga Forever is sold at 40 EUR. It could be good idea to create free downloadable version and maybe let it timeout after few hours to motivate potential customers.


Asking the wrong people, talk to Hyperion if your not happy about the price.
Maybe there should be a downloadable version, but at the moment there isn't.

Besides its not that much in the grand scheme of things.
Bet you buy lots of XBOX and PS or even steam games. So for the cost of two games, your almost there.

The thread title is "PPC Emulation in WinUAE" not "why does OS4.1 classic cost x amount".
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on September 19, 2014, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;773370
Asking the wrong people, talk to Hyperion if your not happy about the price.

I did not ask anything. I just agreed with Kickstart that 104 EUR is quite expensive to try OS4 in emulation.

Quote
Maybe there should be a downloadable version, but at the moment there isn't.

Besides its not that much in the grand scheme of things.
Bet you buy lots of XBOX and PS or even steam games. So for the cost of two games, your almost there.

I dont. But you missed the point. Do you buy lots of games to try those in emulation and then throw away if you dont like it? Buy or not, that is the question. It is easier to not buy anything (and I do that often).

Of course, Amiga users are often special and order products they dont even install to their machine.

Quote
The thread title is "PPC Emulation in WinUAE" not "why does OS4.1 classic cost x amount".

I did not ask why product X costs Y amount. Nobody is interested to ask that question.

Besides, it is clear that PPC emulation in WinUAE is only interest to OS4 users, mostly. This thread is 90% about OS4 on WinUAE.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on September 19, 2014, 01:36:59 PM
I decided whether I like OS4.1 or not by checking out some videos of it in action.
$200 is an okay price. The downside is you might have to pay for extra drivers etc.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: bloodline on September 19, 2014, 03:04:36 PM
Quote from: itix;773372


Besides, it is clear that PPC emulation in WinUAE is only interest to OS4 users, mostly. This thread is 90% about OS4 on WinUAE.




I'd like to run my old PowerUP programs without having to dig out my old BlizzPPC
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: itix on September 19, 2014, 04:35:01 PM
Quote from: bloodline;773382
I'd like to run my old PowerUP programs without having to dig out my old BlizzPPC


Unfortunately PowerUP and WarpUP kernels have even less interesting exclusive titles to run than NG Amigas. Most if not all games support 68k only systems and in WinUAE the speed is not your ambition to run PPC native tools. So you are mostly limited to PPC demos. Which is not bad itself because they should run better on WinUAE (no context switches).
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: XDelusion on September 19, 2014, 05:06:42 PM
I'd just like to be able to run Shogo since I can't do it with audio under MorphOS
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: psxphill on September 19, 2014, 07:37:08 PM
Quote from: itix;773390
Unfortunately PowerUP and WarpUP kernels have even less interesting exclusive titles to run than NG Amigas. Most if not all games support 68k only systems and in WinUAE the speed is not your ambition to run PPC native tools. So you are mostly limited to PPC demos. Which is not bad itself because they should run better on WinUAE (no context switches).

Wipeout 2097

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KytCnmWNnsU
 
 It's mostly applications though.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: trekiej on October 17, 2014, 01:04:37 AM
What Linux OS would someone recommend to try on this emulator?
PPC wise, that is.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: amoskodare on October 17, 2014, 01:28:57 AM
I ordered a copy of OS4.1 for Classic last night, woop woop :drink:

I'm gonna install it on a fairly snappy x64 laptop I have over here, hopefully the emulation is speedy enough...  :hat:

You can get AmigaOS 4.1 for Classic Amigas from AmigaKit:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=17&products_id=1035
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: esc on October 17, 2014, 01:39:32 AM
Quote from: trekiej;775155
What Linux OS would someone recommend to try on this emulator?
PPC wise, that is.


Really any, to be honest. Though I'd recommend something debian based, in particular I'd recommend CrunchBang (http://crunchbang.org/)
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: trekiej on October 17, 2014, 03:21:15 AM
Thanks.
edit:
Sorry, I would buy os4.1 if I had the money.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Duce on October 17, 2014, 03:30:05 AM
Buying OS4 for Classics just to tinker with it in UAE is the biggest moneysink I've ever seen, lol.

And I say that as someone who purchased it for my old PPC A1200, and again for my SAM440.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: NovaCoder on October 17, 2014, 03:43:20 AM
This development raises an interesting question.   Why buy custom hardware to run OS4 when you can use an off the shelf PC.

How do they compare on features, stability and performance?

I'm not really that interested in running OS4 myself but this is an interesting development.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: klx300r on October 17, 2014, 05:52:45 AM
Quote from: amoskodare;775158
I ordered a copy of OS4.1 for Classic last night, woop woop :drink:

I'm gonna install it on a fairly snappy x64 laptop I have over here, hopefully the emulation is speedy enough...  :hat:

You can get AmigaOS 4.1 for Classic Amigas from AmigaKit:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=17&products_id=1035


Holy crap Marko you mean this is the answer to our long awaited OS4.x laptop :idea::huh:

That's cool and also sad at the same time......
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on October 17, 2014, 09:17:33 AM
It must be good for the market in the long run. You now have a cheap entry level system. Someone who prefers AROS on x86 can boot up OS4 to use a piece of software they need.
You really have a buffet of OS choices.

People who want the hardware (and can afford it) will still buy it.
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: klx300r on October 17, 2014, 01:53:00 PM
@ ElPolloDiabl

I agree if it works seamlessly and can boot up right into OS4.x then it's a win-win
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: Themamboman on October 17, 2014, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: klx300r;775166
Holy crap Marko you mean this is the answer to our long awaited OS4.x laptop :idea::huh:

That's cool and also sad at the same time......



Already did it with my macbook pro.

Playing with Picasso96Mode allowed me to get the emulated PicassoIV up to 1440x900 fullscreen:


http://i.imgur.com/KKBbE6Q.jpg
Title: Re: Toni Wilen adding PPC emulation in WinUAE?
Post by: klx300r on October 17, 2014, 02:15:31 PM
Quote from: Themamboman;775188
Already did it with my macbook pro.

Playing with Picasso96Mode allowed me to get the emulated PicassoIV up to 1440x900 fullscreen:


http://i.imgur.com/KKBbE6Q.jpg

that's awesome:hammer:

please give us a quick review when you try out different programs/ games etc.