Status report on AmigaOS 4.2 development

[eliyahu]

The 440's are no longer produced and quite frankly for as underpowered as it is, 200$ should be the NEW, purchase price, not used.

I remember when the Efika first came out. I was REALLY tempted to buy one, 'cos it was 99$. I stopped short when people said they were having problems due to the limited ram, but that's a GOOD entry level price and you got a 30 minute time limit with MorphOS. You can even still by Efika's from Directron.

they are still produced, actually. acube just did another run a few months ago and they sold out quickly. if any were available (!) you could pick them up new, with warranty, for under $350. but... that doesn't include the OS license.

This is what completely baffles me about Hyperion and how over the years, I've gradually stopped being a "Red Camp" cheerleader. Please explain this logic to me, 'cos I really don't get it. I buy a SAM for 500$. Then, I have to get a hard drive, gfx card, case, power supply. I'll say I'm using an old dell keyboard and USB IR mouse I have ('cos I have spares.) I get all this for a total of 750$. After 2 or 3 weeks, I decide that OS4 isn't for me. Well, there's no 30 day warranty. I can't "return my product for a full refund", therefore I'm stuck with it. Even if I could return it, odds are, I'm stuck paying for shipping, which is just more money out of my pocket. Only I don't want it. So, my only option is to sell it on eBay or Amibay or via Craigslist. *BUT*, I have to sell it at a loss, 'cos regardless of the fact I only used it 2 or 3 weeks, it's still *USED* and there's always a risk when you buy used. This is Amigaland, remember?

Then, there's the subject of a warranty. While I am of the 100% opinion that Amigakit would honor this: "Hey. I bought [Name]'s SAM as he didn't want it anymore. I have his original receipt, all the boxes, manuals, etc., but it seems to not be working, yet it's still under the original warranty. Can I return it?"

However, my experiences with companies like SoftHut, VisionTek and Anti-Gravity made me skeptical with Amiga Businesses. In fact, the only reason I hold Amigakit in such high regard is a) I've seen how they package their shipments b) I've seen nothing but praise about them and c) when there IS a problem, ChrisF or someone else jumps on it as quickly as possible to fix it and typically doesn't rest until they do.

i can only say that i and others have had occasion to return hardware to either acube or amigakit, and the items were repaired or replaced. acube is/was selling SAM440ep-flex systems complete with graphics card, storage, DVD drive, etc., fully assembled for around $700USD. and with a two-year warranty. i believe they also allow the systems to be returned. but, yes, you would have to pay for return shipping.

I'm NOT trolling, I'm making astute observations. I've wanted to buy an OS4 system for years, but short of the SAMs (which are still overpriced in my eyes, for what I get and I'm entitled to MY opinion), not a single piece of kit for OS4 has pushed me to go, "Oh WoW! I've just GOTTA have that!"

That is NOT fair to the end consumer and it's actually poor business logic. As I said before, there's absolutely ZERO incentive to purchase an OS4 machine, unless you just have the money to burn and are a zealot.

i don't think you are trolling. i think you are an example of several people i have talked with since being an active 'next-gen' amigan. lots of people would love to try an AOS4-based computer, but the cost of entry is too high. as for things being 'overpriced,' that's in the eye of the beholder. i was very worried my SAM would be too underpowered for much of anything, but in reality it was much more performant than i expected. the X1000 did say 'gotta have it' to me, but i ended up spending the money on something else after waiting so long to get an order link.

the good news is that the systems that are coming should be both more performant and cheaper than what we have now. but, as always in amiga-land, we're waiting. if you were in the tri-state area, i'd drive over with one of my machines so you could check it out. but that's not really something people should have to do. the VNC idea mentioned earlier seems something they should offer on request for interested parties.

if you do go for it, i think you'll be pleased with your purchase. it's just a shame there isn't a way for you to try before you buy. i don't suppose i could tempt you into joining us at amiwest this fall? there are tons of next-gen and classic amigas on display, with lots of nice people to chat with, including some of the principal movers and shakers these days. just something to keep in the back of your mind.

-- eliyahu

[commodorejohn]

that might exactly be a reason not to provide a demo version and not support any cheaply available hardware. if you need to invest considerable amount of money beforehand you will not easily give up, even if what you get wouldnt live to your expectations. a customer in such a situation tries to sit it through, convince himself that the product is not so bad and hope for the future improvements. especially if there is no return option, or it means even more stress and investments, like for instance high postal risks and costs.

You realize that you're describing Customer's Stockholm Syndrome here? It's certainly true that someone who invests a lot of money in something that doesn't live up to their expectations won't as easily give up and admit that it may not have been the best purchase, but that doesn't make the purchase any better. All it means is you're going to have among your userbase a certain class of user who really doesn't like the product as much as they say they do, but refuses to admit that, to themselves or anybody else. And there's still going to be that barrier to entry for everybody else who might otherwise be interested.

You can try MOS on a Mac - thats quite cheap and  easy - if You really want to try. You can be assured AOS 4 (if that is  your preferred taste) is for sure not lightyears different from that  experience.

Probably not a whole lot different, but it still tells me nothing definite about whether I'd have problems with OS4 specifically, and when looking at a purchase in the hundreds-to-a-thousand range, definite is something I really, really want. When I bought a synthesizer from a guy in Superior yesterday, for example, I didn't just hand him money and then take it sight-unseen; I went over to his house, spent a couple hours testing it, getting a feel for the sound, the keyboard, and the interface, and making sure all the keys worked and were responsive. I dropped $300 on that thing, but I can feel sure that it was worth it, because I was able to make sure I liked it and that it didn't have any problems before I bought it. OS4 does not make that kind of demoing easy, or often even possible.

John - I'm sure most OS4 guys wouldn't mind letting  you VNC into their machines.  I know I've done it for a few guys that  wanted to try it.

Really? That's big of you. I'm not going to be actually looking at an OS4 system-caliber purchase any time soon, but I would be interested in getting a feel for it.

[Methuselas]

they are still produced, actually. acube just did another run a few months ago and they sold out quickly. if any were available (!) you could pick them up new, with warranty, for under $350. but... that doesn't include the OS license.

Yeah, but with the license, the 733mhz SAM440 mobo is still over 500$. I can build a low-end PC for that. Once again, it's all about demand. The demand is for CHEAPER hardware. I get the X1000 and it was a great system, but I truly feel that A-EON's money, not to mention the 100k a year for "development" would have been more cost-effective to reduce the price of the entry level boards. My gigabyte board with my 8 core 4 Ghz AM3+ 8350 cost less than the sole price of the SAM mobo. Since I can't demo OS4, I HAVE to buy the license with the board to get any use. Otherwise, it's just wasted silicon. I'm starting to wonder if we should start hounding Hyperion about making downloadable demo ISOs of OS4, but I'm pretty sure it will fall on deaf ears.

i can only say that i and others have had occasion to return hardware to either acube or amigakit, and the items were repaired or replaced. acube is/was selling SAM440ep-flex systems complete with graphics card, storage, DVD drive, etc., fully assembled for around $700USD. and with a two-year warranty. i believe they also allow the systems to be returned. but, yes, you would have to pay for return shipping.

That does make me feel better. I never got reimbursed for the 50$ coupon I purchased for the early bird scheme. I bought into Big Mac's "buy Amiga" back in 2000 and purchased a NOS A1200 from SoftHut, to get stuck with shoddy workbench disks and it took near two months, finally emailing Big Mac himself about it, to even get replacement copies sent. I was one of the fools that pre-ordered a Boxer back in 1997 from Anti-Gravity. That's not even the tip of my Amiga troubles in the past.

i don't think you are trolling. i think you are an example of several people i have talked with since being an active 'next-gen' amigan. lots of people would love to try an AOS4-based computer, but the cost of entry is too high. as for things being 'overpriced,' that's in the eye of the beholder. i was very worried my SAM would be too underpowered for much of anything, but in reality it was much more performant than i expected. the X1000 did say 'gotta have it' to me, but i ended up spending the money on something else after waiting so long to get an order link.

the good news is that the systems that are coming should be both more performant and cheaper than what we have now. but, as always in amiga-land, we're waiting. if you were in the tri-state area, i'd drive over with one of my machines so you could check it out. but that's not really something people should have to do. the VNC idea mentioned earlier seems something they should offer on request for interested parties.

if you do go for it, i think you'll be pleased with your purchase. it's just a shame there isn't a way for you to try before you buy. i don't suppose i could tempt you into joining us at amiwest this fall? there are tons of next-gen and classic amigas on display, with lots of nice people to chat with, including some of the principal movers and shakers these days. just something to keep in the back of your mind.

-- eliyahu

It's not that it's "overpriced." It's more price comparison. I'm trying to rationalize and justify the expenditure, especially in the current economy. Here's a simple analogy to sum up my issues.

If you could buy your favorite car maker's new automobile, but it was only available with bicycle pedals, meaning you had to do all the work, or would you buy a generic, new automobile that had an automatic transmission, 40mpg city, power everything, when they both cost the same price?

Unfortunately, I won't be to Amiwest any time soon, much to my dismay. Have a fiancee and a step-kid now, so my traveling isn't like what it used to be. :knuddel:

[utri007]

If you could buy your favorite car maker's new automobile, but it was only available with bicycle pedals, meaning you had to do all the work, or would you buy a generic, new automobile that had an automatic transmission, 40mpg city, power everything, when they both cost the same price?

You can't possible compare car and computer, or at least you should compare hobby car, like Mini Cooper and "practical" car, like Toyota. Still it wouldn't be same, I don't have room for third car, but I have room for 21 computers, 5 of them are used dayli, 3 Amigas and 2 Win 7 machines.

Price of Sam is not much for working adult, it is hobby machine. I could easily imagine much more stupid hobby, I even know some people how have stupid hobby. BUT I wouldn't  say that to them.

[Iggy]

I'll second that.
I spend more on my motorcycles.
And a SAM won't get me killed.

Once MorphOS is released for the SAM460, I might have to buy one.

It would be nice to have a machine that could boot both AOS4.1 and MorphOS (without hunting down a Pegasos).

[wawrzon]

You realize that you're describing Customer's Stockholm Syndrome here?

i knew it must have a name. i didnt know it to be a manifestation of stockholm syndrome, but it is widely taken advantage in marketing, that for sure. which is probably legitimate, but doasnt make it any more sympathetic. i must say also in this respect morphos team has choosen much more credible strategy.

[utri007]

The 440's are no longer produced and quite frankly for as underpowered as it is, 200$ should be the NEW, purchase price, not used.

440 is not under powered, or at least you woun't get that feeling if you use one. Web surfing is fluent experience and watching PAL/NTSC avis without problems. I bought 440 Flex, I waited it to be "underpowered" prety much for every use, but that is not a situation. Though, no matter how much CPU power you have, it always possible get it to limits. For me it has been positive surprice, mostly because negative feedback from users wich hasn't ever used one.

[rzookol]

So 420p/720p videos on Youtube are perfectly playable on 440 and Quake3 runs >25 fps on FullHD resolution? If not, Sam 440 is underpowered (like most neoAmiga machines)

[Methuselas]

Utri and Iggy,

Obviously the term "analogy" is lost on the two of you. ;P

[WarPiper]

Dude, not sure when you said that but I'm totally with you, everything I do is pc/mac based of which I have both,  my wife can't understand why I would need another computer, much less, one that is 20 years old (yes this debate is going on right as I type).  The amiga for me is to satisfy my need to modify an iconic peice of computing history to make is useable in today's world, but I draw the line when I can purchase a 12 core Mac Pro for the price of what they want for a power pc running amiga os.