Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: amigakit on March 21, 2010, 09:41:41 AM
-
AmigaKit.com is pleased to announce ZorRAM (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958), a new modern memory card for Zorro 3 Amiga computers.
The new card will be supplied with 128MB of SDRAM memory as standard. It features a low profile Zorro card and has full Autoconfig support.
It will be available exclusively from the AmigaKit webstores within the next 6-8 weeks. Pricing will be announced shortly.
Project Development
During 2009, it became apparent that old Zorro 3 memory boards were scarce and consequently selling for over-inflated high prices in the second-user market. We approached our hardware partners E3B and Individual Computers with a brief to produce a modern day memory card for the A3000 / A4000 (T). After encountering many problems and employing E3B's expertise in the area of Zorro expansion development, the ZorRAM (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958) card was developed.
We would like to thank our hardware partners for the many months of development work put into this project.
http://www.amigakit.com Amiga Computer Store
-
Well done to all involved, it's always nice to see new classic HW :)
-
Yep, well done. Despite I do not have an A3000/4000 to use this card, it is great to see new hardware is still being developed.
-
Another great development for ZorroIII Amiga's.
Will you be able to use more than one card at onnce to give 256MB, 512MB and 1GB Ram?
Are there any bigger versions planned ie 256MB?
Weed
-
Excellent, much appreciated :)
-
Great!
There's a good chance I will order one for my A3000.
It's good to see new hardware for classic Miggies. :-)
-
Finally there is proper need for 7-slot Zorro 3 busboards :)
-
After encountering many problems and employing E3B's expertise in the area of Zorro expansion development, the ZorRAM card was developed. We would like to thank our hardware partners for the many months of development work put into this project.
Great! I have never gotten my FastLane Z3 memory working quite right. Anyone want to buy one? :) Oh, and while the Zorro III expertise is available, could you build a Zorro III expansion for my A1000 so I could use more ZorRAM cards? You see, the Garganturam card in my Zorro I Byte by Byte Pal expansion box just doesn't cut it anymore.
-
Is that an original A1000 or GBA1000?
I have never heard of Z3 on an A1000.
-
Is that an original A1000 or GBA1000?
I have never heard of Z3 on an A1000.
There has not been one yet, but I still want one! My Byte by Byte PAL expansion is an interesting relic - it was, I believe, the first expansion, even before Commodore. It's actually Zorro I (yes, One) and was built before CBM had finished the A2000 design - they supposedly worked with CBM to de-bug and implement the concept of Amiga bus-based expansion. The hardware designer, with his name imprinted on the circuit card, is Brad Carvey, Garth's brother :), who later went on to help design the Video Toaster.
Edit: Probably most don't even know Byte by Byte made hardware. After the drama of Amiga expansion, they got out of hardware completely and into 3D software that is well known, Sculpt 3D/4D.
-
For a start, Z3 requires a 32 bit CPU...
-
Does that include Dana Carvey?
-
Really good news!
-
Will it require a certain Buster or Ramsey revision?
-
Finally there is proper need for 7-slot Zorro 3 busboards :)
Hehehe ! 7-slot ZORRO 3: it's not enough for my A3000(T): see picture http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3081.
If I calculate well, 7 x 256MB, it would make a total of 1.792MB !!!!!!!!!!!!! Incredible, but I don't think it will works fine!
-
Will it require a certain Buster or Ramsey revision?
Well Buster 9 has DMA issues with Zorro 3, No problem for me, I have Buster 11.
-
Well Buster 9 has DMA issues with Zorro 3, No problem for me, I have Buster 11.
DMA issues are not a problem. A RAM card doesn't do DMA.
-
DMA issues are not a problem. A RAM card doesn't do DMA.
True..
but read what David Hayne tells us about it.
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=1454
The Rev 9 part has two bugs that can cause problems with Zorro III cards. One can affect some kinds of bus slave cards, it depends on the card design. This is due to a small flaw in a synchronizer stage in the Level II chip (Level II runs a slightly faster bus protocol than Level I, and also supports burst). The other is a flaw in the Zorro III bus arbiter -- there's a small window in which a Zorro III slave cycle just starting can confuse a bus registration command, locking the bus. Rev 11 solves both problems, so you need it for DMA devices.
-
Thank you for making yet another great idea, for a great computer: and keep it go/growing!
-
How will the speed of a zorro RAM card access will compare to CPU card RAM access?
-
@RMK305
Surely much slower than the WarpEngine's I'm afraid. The fastest known ZIII card with memory transfers is the Cybervision64 (the non 3d version), it reaches around 16MB/s.
We'd need a new Buster...
José
-
Another great development for ZorroIII Amiga's.
Will you be able to use more than one card at onnce to give 256MB, 512MB and 1GB Ram?
Are there any bigger versions planned ie 256MB?
Weed
And how will this card co-operate with my 128 mB CSPPC - will I have 256 mB alltogether?
Are there differencies between the access times of the CSPPC-Ram (70 ns) and the ZoRAM?
If yes - how much difference will there be?
And how will it affect the system?
My system:
Towered A4kD with CSPPC, Mediator with Voodoo4 & Terratec 512i digital & 10/100 mBit NIC, DENEB, ...
OS 3.9 + BBs I & II (OS 4.0 classic)
-
@VingtTrois
IRC expansion.library had some bug that had to be fixed to allow that.
-
Hehehe ! 7-slot ZORRO 3: it's not enough for my A3000(T): see picture http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=3081.
Even the towers have no more than 5 slots, so you're maxing out at 1.25 GB. But I'm sure there are several problems before you get that high. X-ray's tried 3x DKB3128 but only got up to 512 MB:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2741 (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2741)
-
I cant to wait to play with this card: Mounting similar geometry disk/Bernoulli partitions on it and disk-copying HD partitions to it - then optimizing them in solid state - then disk-copying them back. Auto booting from a RAD based Sys: should be quite fast too!
I did all of the above with using a DKB 2632 and with Phase5 boards a decade ago and its cool and fast as freaking blit! (Thanks Dean and Wolf!)
Since its Zorro3, I know it should work in a Zorro2 system, but I'm curious: The AutoConfig (TM) of RAM should count up to 8MB of the 128 MB - will there be a hack to use the rest of the SDRAM as some sort of virtual SSD(s)? 8MB is overkill in size for a blazing fast Sys: partition anyway!
-
Since its Zorro3, I know it should work in a Zorro2 system, ...
Nope, it won't. Where are you taking this from?
-
Nope, it won't. Where are you taking this from?
I think he might have meant if it were a Zorro II card, that it should work in a Zorro III slot. That would be a logical assumption, but not the other way around. Else why have different standards? :lol:
@Joetee... are you talking about BigWolf out East? Is he still selling Miggy stuff I wonder?
-
I think he might have meant if it were a Zorro II card, that it should work in a Zorro III slot....
@Joetee... are you talking about BigWolf out East? Is he still selling Miggy stuff I wonder?
I thought it depended on how much work the card designer wanted to do; the GVP Spectrum implied that it made use of the ZIII environment when plugged into an A3000/A4000, but that may have been marketing.
Which BigWolf are you referring to - Big Wolff Porno & Computers maybe? :)
-
Wooot! for new hardware for my 4000! :-)
-
I know there are quite a few PICs out there auto-sensing Z III or Z II. There are designed to work that way, Usually Z2 functionality is somewhat reduced and performance is lower.
However, designing a 'large' RAM card in that manner wouldn't really make sense as Z2 could only make use of a tiny fraction of the memory. As joetee suggested, including a way to use it for fast mass storage would somewhat make sense, but there are more common and much cheaper solutions available for that - why increase manufacturing and/or development cost?
-
Well done Matthew. Put me down for some! ;-)
TrevorD
-
@VingtTrois
IRC expansion.library had some bug that had to be fixed to allow that.
What ? Do you have more information about that (link...) ? Thx a lot.
Even the towers have no more than 5 slots, so you're maxing out at 1.25 GB. But I'm sure there are several problems before you get that high. X-ray's tried 3x DKB3128 but only got up to 512 MB:
http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2741 (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2741)
I will ask to AmigaKit to send me 7 units of ZorRAM for testing on my A3000 Towerised :crazy:
Then I'd do the tests when the firefighters will be at home.
-
but read what David Hayne tells us about it.
Which is not the whole story, I'm afraid. We had one customer with DMA problems on Buster 11, and during development of the ZorRAM it turned out that an (up to now unknown) Buster 11 bug exists.
This bug will hit if DMA on Zorro III is used and heavy load on Zorro III exists. This situation is likely in systems with no CPU card RAM and Zorro III RAM, as well as one (allowed) Zorro III busmaster in action (like the DENEB). It was not found AFAIK up to now as heavy load on Zorro III was not likely and only few DMA cards are available (Fastlane Z3 and A4091).
This is - to emphasize it - not a problem of DENEB DMA operation, but the Buster DMA arbiter itself, which partially locks up.
A new firmware for DENEB is under test - it recognizes this lockup and will take appropriate action to "unlock" the Buster11 arbiter again.
First tests are promising.
On Buster 11 you can only operate *one* Zorro III busmaster, and as long as this is a DENEB you have no problems, as you may use PIO instead DMA, or take the new firmware with a fix.
With Fastlane Z3 or A4091 you may have problems as they are not capable of fixing this bug.
Michael
-
I think he might have meant if it were a Zorro II card, that it should work in a Zorro III slot. That would be a logical assumption, but not the other way around. Else why have different standards? :lol:
@Joetee... are you talking about BigWolf out East? Is he still selling Miggy stuff I wonder?
The Wolf I was thanking is Mr. Wolf Dietrich of Phase5 (& Gerald Carda Too!).
I just wanted to give my compliment to the designers of products that have most impressed me. AmigaOS's RAD: has saved thousands of developers a ton of time!
The only thing faster re-booting from RAD: is Umithlon, using RAD: but I guess thats cheating since thats from a CtrlAmigaAmiga "soft boot" (after Umithlon booted Linux from the HDD to run the emulator SW first) not cold, from a true HW reset. Thats why it only takes 3 seconds...
RAD: is faster because booting from the south-bridge HW is skipped, and the North-bridge HW is faster and ready to go.
I'll check my BigRAM32 developer notes, but since this an Amiga design, almost everything is forward and backwards compatible. An Amiga Z3 bus should tolerate any Z2 card - even though I/O to/from the PIC will slow the Z3 traffic way down.
I'm sorry I even mentioned alternative uses for it - I just know that most every piece of Commodore/Amiga/3rd party HW ever made has had soft&hardware hacks added to it after it was sold in original specification form.
....especially if it has EEPROM/CPLD/FPGA's on it!*
I should not have wondered on-line about using ZorRAM as a ramdisk for Z2 systems.
I have always considered it rude, and in poor form, for a hardware person who is not (currently) offering any products to inject there own features into another's product, or to assume that they know better than the one who is actually prototyping a product NOW, to sell tomorrow. In fact, I was flat out wrong to wonder about using its memory as a RAD:, because it has to configure as vanilla RAM to ever even mount a file-system geometry of blocks into it.
I VERY MUCH appreciate anyone who continues innovate Amiga products, and I vote with my wallet: I'm going to buy at least two ZorRAMs, and I will gladly pre-order them to satiate the developers' bean-counters in the mean time.
*Providing a 10 pin J-TAG port on HW products is VERY SEXY!
-
This is indeed excellent news! : D I already placed an order for one card. I was planning to get a 040 turbo with RAM at some point but now I can stick with my A3640 card.
-
Thanks for the order !
-
I have ordered one too, and if they choose to offer a 256MB version, I´ll order that too.
-
@Amigakit
I'm tempted, any chance this product will support OS4 classic in future?
-
What ? Do you have more information about that (link...) ? Thx a lot.
I remember a thread here or at aw.net about somebody using various DKB3128. On the other hand it may be a Fastlane/DKB3128 bug. If the bug appeared you could always burn a new rom with a fixed expansion.library, scsi.device and other goodies :-)
Check out this: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=417621&postcount=25
Tron2k2 wrote:
Here's the answer from Dean Brown, creator of the DKB RAM board: There's a bug in Commodore's expansion.library. When he made the boards he tested them by sticking a bunch of 'em in a 3000, and found this problem. He notified Commodore, but it was too low on their to-do list. Remember, this was when 128MB RAM was SPENDY. C= didn't see this situation happening enough to warrant fixing it, and of course they later went under before it could be fixed.
That's how Dean explained it to me, anyway :-)
-
@michael
Do you plan to develop a bugfixed buster replacement that also runs faster? I think many ZorroIII users would be interested. Deneb must be quite more complex than Buster11 and you probably know more about ZorroIII than David Haynie! :-D
-
AmigaKit.com is pleased to announce ZorRAM (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958), a new modern memory card for Zorro 3 Amiga computers.
The new card will be supplied with 128MB of SDRAM memory as standard. It features a low profile Zorro card and has full Autoconfig support.
I have noticed that there's now a 256MB version available. Do you have some news about OS4/MorphOS compatibility?
-
I'll buy one (256 Mb version) when it works with OS4.0 or Morphos.
-
Not at all sure about Z3 RAM being of any use for the PPC in MOS/OS4 ... The point is that expansion RAM as well as onboard would be so DEAD slow that you probably wouldn't enjoy it a lot. It'd be nice if AmigaKit could give us a hint here, but I'm pretty confident that it's of no use. :(
-
Not at all sure about Z3 RAM being of any use for the PPC in MOS/OS4 ... The point is that expansion RAM as well as onboard would be so DEAD slow that you probably wouldn't enjoy it a lot. It'd be nice if AmigaKit could give us a hint here, but I'm pretty confident that it's of no use. :(
It's better being able to run programs more slowly than watching how your system crashes due to lack of ram.
Keep in mind people use 040 boards with motherboard ram... slowness of motherboard&Z3 ram is greatly exaggerated. It's not as fast as cpu ram but it's not useless.
-
Not at all sure about Z3 RAM being of any use for the PPC in MOS/OS4 ... The point is that expansion RAM as well as onboard would be so DEAD slow that you probably wouldn't enjoy it a lot. It'd be nice if AmigaKit could give us a hint here, but I'm pretty confident that it's of no use. :(
Exactly, this is for old school Amiga OS 3.x use and not for PPC and OS 4. Its too slow. I will be buying a 256MB one soon!
Have many in stock AmigaKit? Do I need to hurry? $210 is a lot right now so I need to save up a bit...
-
First batch of 256MB versions are now available. We will start shipping pre-ordered ZorRAM units immediately.
Product link:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958
-
First batch of 256MB versions are now available. We will start shipping pre-ordered ZorRAM units immediately.
Product link:
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=958
Is there a way we can we get a price adjustment for the Euro to USD change please? LOL
-
Not sure exactly what you mean- sorry.
If you need the item in USD, goto http://www.amigakit.us:
http://www.amigakit.us/product_info.php?products_id=958
Is there a way we can we get a price adjustment for the Euro to USD change please? LOL