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Operating System Specific Discussions => AROS Research Operating System => Topic started by: anglosaxonusa on December 09, 2010, 10:27:22 PM

Title: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 09, 2010, 10:27:22 PM: Think back to the first computers you knew. For many, their first acquaintance came in the 1980s. I can recall my first encounter in a school library on a rainy day with an Apple IIe. Before touching the keyboard or flipping on the monitor one thing stood out that I will never forget. On the case of the computer was the silhouette of a small apple with a bite out of it. By itself, it would not have been remarkable, however, the logo was filled with a rainbow. To a child, the effect was magical. As an adult, I realize the logo was simple, noticeable, and memorable.

In the 1980s the rainbow was incorporated into many computer manufacturers logos. Their appearance coincided with the arrival of 16+ color monitors. Amiga adopted the rainbow check in these days, and it served as their logo for years until the boing ball came along (and it was not a coincidence that it arrived during the beginning of the 3D era).

The point of all of this is that AROS needs a new logo.

Currently, the Cat serves as a sort of mascot in place of a logo. To borrow a Yodaism, a mascot a logo makes not. BSD has their Demon, Linux their Penquin ...neither take the place of a logo, they augment it. Mascots are normally personifications of the things they represent. Logos are textual, they scale well, they explain themselves to some extent.

Which brings me to the text logo of AROS. In terms of what it /says/ to me, it recalls the Enlightenment window manager of the late 1990s. The style of the font brings to mind a sort of techno-excess from bad Sci-Fi which is difficult to reconcile with Amiga's friendly nature. The "R" is particularly confused, and has been filled in with horizontal stripes. The cats-eye is related to the mascot, but not to anything Amiga. The color, steel gray/blue, is far too tame to catch the eye and is uninspiring. As a whole, the logo looks like that of a Klingon commode manufacturer ( which you'd find right under the toilette lid ).

AROS (and Amiga) would not be alive today without a certain amount of nostalgia. If the AROS project wants to tap into more interest, it should hearken people back to the halcyon days of the Amiga. Through a logo AROS can link, rather than divorce itself from its Amiga past.

Here is a first try:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros6.png)

The arrow-check recalls Amiga's check, the arrows are a play on the name "AROS", the rainbow recalls that of the original Amiga logo, as does the font, and the bullseye-"O" links the text with the arrows.

Below is a smaller version:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros6c.png)

Below is the current AROS logo for comparison:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/AROSLOGOCURRENT.png)

What do you think?
Title: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: tone007 on December 09, 2010, 10:35:11 PM: I like the current one.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: crawff on December 09, 2010, 10:41:15 PM: I believe a new logo could be a good thing but I'm not sure if the suggested one is any better though.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: CSixx on December 09, 2010, 10:48:15 PM: I also prefer the current one, by a good margin.
Sorry...
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: the_leander on December 09, 2010, 10:48:16 PM: Quote from: tone007;597943
I like the current one.

Ditto.

Hmm, This is the OP's first post... seems legit.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: commodorejohn on December 09, 2010, 10:49:16 PM: I'm good with cute catgirls, thanks. Interesting design, though.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 09, 2010, 10:53:47 PM: The cat mascot doesn't bother me so much as the font chosen for their logo. What does the Klingon font have to do with the cat? How are they related?

Also, how are they both related to the Amiga? I'm not seeing it...
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: the_leander on December 09, 2010, 10:57:50 PM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;597950
Also, how are they both related to the Amiga? I'm not seeing it...

Of course you're not dear.

The cat was drawn by Eric Schwartz, who, if you know anything about the Amiga you should recognize the name.

As for the font... Why does a font have to be "related" to the Amiga?
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 09, 2010, 11:02:43 PM: Quote from: the_leander;597951
As for the font... Why does a font have to be "related" to the Amiga?

Why shouldn't it be related? AROS has Amiga roots, correct?
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 09, 2010, 11:10:59 PM: Second shot (changes to the fletching):

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros7.png)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: adz on December 09, 2010, 11:26:07 PM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;597953
Why shouldn't it be related? AROS has Amiga roots, correct?

The past, the past, you're living in the past man, quit living in the past :lol:
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: the_leander on December 09, 2010, 11:29:58 PM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;597953
Why shouldn't it be related? AROS has Amiga roots, correct?

You still haven't explained why it needs to be "related". Roots maybe, but both have long since gone their separate ways.

If it's simply that you don't like the font, fine, but I don't get why you keep using the above word.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: runequester on December 10, 2010, 12:43:12 AM: Quote from: the_leander;597959
You still haven't explained why it needs to be "related". Roots maybe, but both have long since gone their separate ways.

If it's simply that you don't like the font, fine, but I don't get why you keep using the above word.

well, one has gone its way and the other isn't going anywhere at all :)

I am prepared to be wrong, but I don't suspect there's a lot of AROS use outside of ex-amiga users.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Ral-Clan on December 10, 2010, 02:25:56 AM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;597954
Second shot (changes to the fletching):

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros7.png)

While I don't prefer your design over the current official AROS Logo, I do like your approach. A nice clean logo. At first I didn't understand why you were using actual "fletched" arrows in the checkmark until the similarities between the pronounciation of AROS=ARROWS dawn on me! Good one! I had never associated AROS with "ARROWS" (I guess in my head I had always used a long vowel sound).
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Belial6 on December 10, 2010, 02:31:34 AM: I'm going to have to agree. The current one is better by a wide margin. The suggested one's "relation" to the original marks could actually pose a problem. If I were on a jury, I might be able to be convinced that the suggested logo with its font, rainbow, and checkmark is intended to trick a consumer into thinking that Aros is an Amiga product. That is specifically what Trademarks are intended to prevent. Better to stick with the current. Anyone that is currently interested in it already knows what it is, and anyone that is likely to become interested in it will not be swayed by an Amiga looking logo.

Personally, I want to start referring to the platform as MiniMig/AROS, and refer to Amiga/AmigaOS as the retro proprietary versions of MiniMig/AROS. MiniMig is pretty much there. AROS is close.

And, I thought the cat's eye was the graphical logo.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: AmigaEd on December 10, 2010, 03:24:58 AM: I probably should just bite my tongue, but I'm just not that smart...

Fact is, I don't much care for either logo, the current or the proposed. Both artists are clearly skilled in ways that I am not, so I'm not trying to detract from the artists on this basis.

One thing that I find interesting about logos, advertisements, trade marks and etc. is how often they are only legible to the people who authored them. Often the meaning behind the elements of the rendering are so obscure that no connection to what's being represented can be discerned.

I see this often on roadside billboards, print that is too small to read from the car, images and colors that don't show up well even with good lighting, poorly chosen fonts that just don't show up well.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: haywirepc on December 10, 2010, 03:53:02 AM: Current logo = Great.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: coldfish on December 10, 2010, 05:39:35 AM: I prefer the current one.

The connection between the arrows, AROS (AROwS) and the Amiga check mark is a nice one but I think the arrows you have designed need to be less literal arrows and something more stylised. Also they are too thin and long, the design needs to be more compressed or else the arrows and font appear mismatched.
The standard rainbow-gradient is too old fashioned for a modern "remake" OS, but there may be something there, it needs to be referenced in another way, and the black stroke is visually lacking.
The bullseye is a bit "meh", it seems out of place, unrelated and misaligned within the O. Not too sure about the choice of font colour either, black is uninspiring. The font references the Amiga serif font but I think it needs something more than just a standard treatment.

I can see this as very much a retro-retro design, almost too much like what we might expect to see on a computer 20 years ago, yet AROS is more of a blend of old and new, I think the branding needs to keep this in mind.

I'd like to see the ideas you have developed further.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kolla on December 10, 2010, 09:19:47 AM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;597950
What does the Klingon font have to do with the cat?

You have no idea what Klingon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Qapla'.svg) looks like, do you.... sigh :confused:
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: bloodline on December 10, 2010, 10:42:45 AM: The kitty eye has become the de facto logo, that's has simply evolved over time and is better than anything specifically designed for the purpose.

As for the text... meh :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: EDanaII on December 10, 2010, 01:26:54 PM: Quote from: the_leander;597959
You still haven't explained why it needs to be "related". Roots maybe, but both have long since gone their separate ways.

If it's simply that you don't like the font, fine, but I don't get why you keep using the above word.

Forgive me, Alan, but WHY is it necessary that he explain that to you? This is a public forum, not a court of law. It's enough to infer that he thinks it's important. I think I'd let it go beyond that.

Two cents.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: djnick on December 10, 2010, 01:28:23 PM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;597942
Think back to the first computers you knew. For many, their first acquaintance came in the 1980s...
What do you think?

I don`t like it, sorry. Too many colours, too many details and very similar to old Amiga logo.
Current AROS logo looks ok.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: the_leander on December 10, 2010, 01:35:41 PM: Quote from: EDanaII;598025
Forgive me, Alan, but WHY is it necessary that he explain that to you?

I was asking, I was curious as to know where he was coming from on this.

Quote from: EDanaII;598025

This is a public forum

Apparently one where if you dare to ask questions you get pounced on.

WTF is it with this place recently?

RE Belial6 bang on. The new logo is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Hattig on December 10, 2010, 02:15:52 PM: I certainly am not a fan of the existing aros branding but it's a hard job to come up with a logo. However I do agree that the font should change and be less 'chromey'. The eye could be stylised more too.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: curtis on December 10, 2010, 02:28:03 PM: The proposed logo is definitely retro looking, but dated.

Perhaps a melding of the 2, like putting the arrows as a reflection inside the cat's eye.

Or something similar.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: EDanaII on December 10, 2010, 03:11:45 PM: Quote from: the_leander;598029
I was asking, I was curious as to know where he was coming from on this.

Apparently one where if you dare to ask questions you get pounced on.

Perhaps, but your insistence that he explain it to you in light of a fairly obvious answer made it seem you were pouncing on him.

The Amiga legacy IS the checkmark and he merely wanted to draw a recognizable allusion between it and AROS.

Copyright issues notwithstanding, there really wasn't much more to it than that. :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: the_leander on December 10, 2010, 03:31:43 PM: Quote from: EDanaII;598046
Perhaps, but your insistence that he explain it to you in light of a fairly obvious answer made it seem you were pouncing on him.

It was the the repeated reference to the font needing to be "related" that throws me.

If I pounce on someone I do so in a way that is clear and unmistakable. There will be copious image macros and mockery involved, it will be harsh, possibly funny in a dark sort of way, but you'll know it when you see it. Bring popcorn :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kolla on December 10, 2010, 04:35:12 PM: Quote from: the_leander;598029
RE Belial6 bang on. The new logo is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

No it isn't. The Amiga checkmark is a long abandoned trademark that can be used by anyone for anything at this point.

From a community standpoint however, I think reserving the Amiga checkmark to symbolize "classic" (which will have to include AROS/m68k) is the way to go.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: KThunder on December 10, 2010, 05:57:08 PM: Quote from: runequester;597964
well, one has gone its way and the other isn't going anywhere at all :)

I am prepared to be wrong, but I don't suspect there's a lot of AROS use outside of ex-amiga users.

Not exactly aros use but I was suprised to see Aros included in the other os's listing in a computer book I have at home. I don't know if the authors are ex-amiga but it is possible I suppose. Or they were just searching for any and all other os's.

As for this discussion I think that Aros can go both ways.
There is no real reason that Aros can not be the user friendly, small, good looking os that linux tries to be. Linux is Unix and is complex, confusing in many ways to newcomers, and is splitting more and more between the distros. If Aros had a good easy to use and complete web browser, Office package, and printing utilities, my Mom would use it right now. Whereas one of my brothers (an anti-MS linux fanatic) tried to setup linux for her and it ended up being to much for her.

Aros can also be the AmigaOs related os for all us ex and current amiga users. Slick and smooth with built-in UAE and all the nostalgia we can muster (anyone got an old a4000t case I could abuse?)

All that said, I don't really care about logos. Case badges are where I'm at, but I like them simple and clean.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: eb15 on December 10, 2010, 06:06:06 PM: I don't like the look of the broken arrows up front. They don't look like the Amiga check marks (which I always thought was an homage to Consumer Reports magazine's ratings, so if you're going to do that, then that follow through with what they use today instead). Maybe you could try arrows going through the bullseye "O" instead.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: KThunder on December 10, 2010, 06:06:46 PM: Quote from: the_leander;598051
It was the the repeated reference to the font needing to be "related" that throws me.

If I pounce on someone I do so in a way that is clear and unmistakable. There will be copious image macros and mockery involved, it will be harsh, possibly funny in a dark sort of way, but you'll know it when you see it. Bring popcorn :)

Skip the popcorn when the_leander drops the hammer grab the pepto :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: runequester on December 10, 2010, 06:12:01 PM: Quote from: KThunder;598082
Not exactly aros use but I was suprised to see Aros included in the other os's listing in a computer book I have at home. I don't know if the authors are ex-amiga but it is possible I suppose. Or they were just searching for any and all other os's.

As for this discussion I think that Aros can go both ways.
There is no real reason that Aros can not be the user friendly, small, good looking os that linux tries to be. Linux is Unix and is complex, confusing in many ways to newcomers, and is splitting more and more between the distros. If Aros had a good easy to use and complete web browser, Office package, and printing utilities, my Mom would use it right now. Whereas one of my brothers (an anti-MS linux fanatic) tried to setup linux for her and it ended up being to much for her.

Aros can also be the AmigaOs related os for all us ex and current amiga users. Slick and smooth with built-in UAE and all the nostalgia we can muster (anyone got an old a4000t case I could abuse?)

All that said, I don't really care about logos. Case badges are where I'm at, but I like them simple and clean.

To shoot over 5% market share on the desktop an OS needs to:

Be sold in stores pre-installed.
Be made by a corporation.

Any alternative to windows and mac (BEOS, linux, aros, etc) in the desktop consumer market must compete with people pirating windows, office etc. You can't compete with theft on price, and people only go for an alternative if they have an interest in this stuff.

That's okay though. As we talked about in another thread, aros doesn't need mainstream success to be good.
Work on porting applications, improving hardware compatibility etc. Make things better for the geeks and retro fans who like it.

Linux does as well as it does, because it's in the embedded market, the super computers, the servers, cell phones etc. Desktop users are just one part of the package, and a reasonably minor one at that.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: eb15 on December 10, 2010, 06:18:00 PM: If you're doing a new logo you really have to study up on illuminati corporate logos and make sure you're using the correct (evil?) symbols in it. rising sun, pyramid, owl, 666s, etc. hahaha ;-)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: KThunder on December 10, 2010, 06:20:50 PM: Yeah, I think that linux is very well suited to the apps you mentioned. My point was that as far as for a desktop Os for newbies and non computer types, Aros could actually become better than linux. I don't think either will ever make a serious dent in the desktop arena, and thats ok.

As an Amiga fan, I use Aros more than Linux.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Belial6 on December 10, 2010, 06:25:42 PM: Quote from: kolla;598068
No it isn't. The Amiga checkmark is a long abandoned trademark that can be used by anyone for anything at this point.

That is simply untrue. Amiga products are still being sold that have the Amiga check mark. Every copy of Amiga Forever that sells is being sold with the kickstart roms which show the Amiga Trademark on boot.

So, even if you ignore the fact that IP law is completely out of wack in such a way that you might get sued even if the trademark is abandoned, it wouldn't apply to the check mark since it is still in use.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: adz on December 10, 2010, 11:10:23 PM: If you wanna know what I think, well you probably don't but that's never stopped me before :lol: I reckon it looks a tad dodgy, kinda like something cobbled together in mspaint.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kedawa on December 11, 2010, 03:29:15 AM: With the rainbow colours, a bent pair of purple-headed shafts, and a little red in the 'O', it certainly gives off a different vibe than the saucy kitty.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 11, 2010, 06:52:12 AM: I made this just for fun:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/cat4_800.png)

A close up:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/cat4_cropped.png)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 11, 2010, 06:52:55 AM: Quote from: adz;598116
If you wanna know what I think, well you probably don't but that's never stopped me before :lol: I reckon it looks a tad dodgy, kinda like something cobbled together in mspaint.

Thanks for being candid.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kolla on December 11, 2010, 09:09:02 AM: Quote from: Belial6;598089
That is simply untrue. Amiga products are still being sold that have the Amiga check mark. Every copy of Amiga Forever that sells is being sold with the kickstart roms which show the Amiga Trademark on boot.
And? As I wrote, anyone can use it for anything at this point. The only reason why the checkmark is there on boot is because kickstart 3.1 (well, 2.0 really) had it there, and replacing it is not something as trivial as replacing some bitmap.

Quote
So, even if you ignore the fact that IP law is completely out of wack in such a way that you might get sued even if the trademark is abandoned, it wouldn't apply to the check mark since it is still in use.

That someone use it does not mean that it's a valid trademark. Noone has legally cared about the checkmark since the days of Amiga Technologies GMBH and Amiga OS 3.1 when it was featured on the reprinted manuals (original OS3.0 and 3.1 manuals had no checkmark on them, only the 5 colour stroke). The checkmark was abandoned in favour of the boingball once Amiga International came along, and along with the written escom "AMIGA" the boingball has been the only protected logo since.

I've had T-shirts made with Amiga checkmarks on (nice indigo coloured ones), various Amiga related sites use it - it's been public domain more or less since CBM was around to care. I have yet to hear about _anyone_ even getting note about use of Amiga checkmark. And from whom would such a note come from anyways? Cloanto? Amiga Inc? Haha - dream on. The boingball on the other hand, has been the subject of many threats throughout the years.

And anyhow - the Amiga checkmark exists in so many variants, that it doesn't really work well as a legal logo. The one I use on my excellent T-shirts have the coloured version of this one (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2168) on them, which is quite accurate compared to the one found on A1000. Opposed to the one used in bootscreens (which is limited due to hardware).

But by all means, if you think I'm wrong, feel free to sue me for infringement, or talk Cloanto or whoever into doing so.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: bloodline on December 11, 2010, 10:18:40 AM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;598145
I made this just for fun:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/cat4_800.png)

A close up:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/cat4_cropped.png)
:lol: you do deserve some respect for this :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: AmigaNG on December 11, 2010, 01:27:20 PM: Firstly anglosaxonusa thats a great drawing.

I like the mascot aros has got, so much so I made my own Aros Inside sticker for my laptop

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/amigang/arosinside.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/amigang/arosinside.jpg)

I think it looks pritty good next to the intel inside sticker, it basicly my old avatar I made, which any one is welcome to.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/amigang/Aros_blink2.gif)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: commodorejohn on December 11, 2010, 03:09:00 PM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;598145
I made this just for fun:
I likes :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kolla on December 11, 2010, 04:51:44 PM: The arrow is resting on the wrong side of the bow - the arrow will bounce off and she'll most likely miss whatever she's aiming for. I just wanted to point that out :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 11, 2010, 10:57:13 PM: Quote from: AmigaNG;598163

I think it looks pritty good next to the intel inside sticker, it basicly my old avatar I made, which any one is welcome to.

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b168/amigang/Aros_blink2.gif)

My fiancé really got a kick out of the blinking. Great job!
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 11, 2010, 11:01:30 PM: Quote from: kolla;598177
The arrow is resting on the wrong side of the bow - the arrow will bounce off and she'll most likely miss whatever she's aiming for. I just wanted to point that out :)

Here was the inspiration for the picture:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/emma.jpg)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kolla on December 12, 2010, 12:51:11 AM: Try some photo og Geena Davis instead :lol:
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Belial6 on December 12, 2010, 04:29:33 AM: Quote from: kolla;598152
And? As I wrote, anyone can use it for anything at this point. The only reason why the checkmark is there on boot is because kickstart 3.1 (well, 2.0 really) had it there, and replacing it is not something as trivial as replacing some bitmap.

That someone use it does not mean that it's a valid trademark. Noone has legally cared about the checkmark since the days of Amiga Technologies GMBH and Amiga OS 3.1 when it was featured on the reprinted manuals (original OS3.0 and 3.1 manuals had no checkmark on them, only the 5 colour stroke). The checkmark was abandoned in favour of the boingball once Amiga International came along, and along with the written escom "AMIGA" the boingball has been the only protected logo since.

I've had T-shirts made with Amiga checkmarks on (nice indigo coloured ones), various Amiga related sites use it - it's been public domain more or less since CBM was around to care. I have yet to hear about _anyone_ even getting note about use of Amiga checkmark. And from whom would such a note come from anyways? Cloanto? Amiga Inc? Haha - dream on. The boingball on the other hand, has been the subject of many threats throughout the years.

And anyhow - the Amiga checkmark exists in so many variants, that it doesn't really work well as a legal logo. The one I use on my excellent T-shirts have the coloured version of this one (http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=2168) on them, which is quite accurate compared to the one found on A1000. Opposed to the one used in bootscreens (which is limited due to hardware).

But by all means, if you think I'm wrong, feel free to sue me for infringement, or talk Cloanto or whoever into doing so.

If your IP is still being sold with the trademark on it, it is still in use. How easy or hard it is to remove is irrelevant to the fact that it is still being used on products that are still being sold. The fact that there is more than one trademark does not make it legal for you to use. The fact that you use it without getting sued does not make it legal for you to get used. That fact that I think it SHOULD be legal to use does not make it legal to use.

Of course, the point that you challenge ME to sue you for a trademark that someone else owns indicates that either you have absolutely no clue what a trademark is, you are intentionally misstating your position in a hope to derail reasonable conversation.

Anyone who had any clue what a trademark was, would know that only the owners of the trademark, or maybe someone they licensed the rights to would have any claim to sue over a trademark.

In this discussion, I am on the defendants team. Or more accurately, suggesting that the group I want sticking around, not become defendants in a legal preceding. It would be stupid for the AROS group to use a mark that in anyway could lead to legal trouble when there is nothing to gain by doing it.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 12, 2010, 05:13:13 AM: Third shot:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4b.png)

Detail shot 1:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4d.png)

Detail shot 2:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4c.png)

The image appears to read well at a small scale:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4h.png)

The heart is a play on "Eros" (love) and the assorted cupid connotations. The arrow is a phonetic play on AROS. The target-"O" is a foil for the arrow. The drawing of the cat "arching" links the logo with the mascot, and the mascot herself, links with Eros through her sexyness.

The image (like the drawing of the cat) are scalable vector graphics and can be scaled to any size. I'm using photobucket to host the svgs as pngs, which caused some quality loss in what you see.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: EDanaII on December 12, 2010, 05:28:58 AM: Since you wanna draw allusions to AROS's roots, maybe switch the bull's eye for a (red and white checkered) dart board? Just a thought. :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 12, 2010, 05:44:26 AM: Quote from: EDanaII;598237
Since you wanna draw allusions to AROS's roots, maybe switch the bull's eye for a (red and white checkered) dart board? Just a thought. :)

Brilliant! I'll see what I can come up with...

I tried integrating the gradient into the arrowshaft but it didn't come out right. The yellow shaft seems to work a lot better than rainbow gradient when tying it all together:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros3a.png)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: CSixx on December 12, 2010, 06:21:04 AM: Shooting an arrow at a dart board doesn't sound logical to me...
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: tone007 on December 12, 2010, 12:07:27 PM: Dart board:
(http://www.moderndart.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dartboard.gif)

Archery target:
(http://www.vectorstock.com/composite/219062/archery-vector.jpg)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: EDanaII on December 12, 2010, 05:23:20 PM: Quote from: CSixx;598239
Shooting an arrow at a dart board doesn't sound logical to me...

Neither does a black furry cat to represent the Amiga Legacy. :)

The point was to draw an allusion to the source of AROS's past. The only reason I suggested a dart board is because it implies an alternating pattern that better illustrates the image I was thinking of. Think bull's eye but with a red and white checkered surface. I.e. Looking down on the Boing Ball's polar north. This creates a strong allusion between AROS and Amiga.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: dammy on December 12, 2010, 06:07:47 PM: Quote from: EDanaII;598306
Neither does a black furry cat to represent the Amiga Legacy. :)

I beg to differ, Eric S is apart of the Amiga community legacy. http://www.sabrina-online.com/
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: EDanaII on December 12, 2010, 06:48:09 PM: Wow. I didn't know it was that serious an issue. :)

AngloSaxonUSA originally wanted to create a logo that tied AROS to it's Amiga past. I don't really see that Eric is a direct part of that past, and even if he is, the Kitty logo does not clearly represent it in a way that ASUSA desires.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Belial6 on December 12, 2010, 08:01:24 PM: Quote from: EDanaII;598321
Wow. I didn't know it was that serious an issue. :)

AngloSaxonUSA originally wanted to create a logo that tied AROS to it's Amiga past. I don't really see that Eric is a direct part of that past, and even if he is, the Kitty logo does not clearly represent it in a way that ASUSA desires.

Yeah, the Kitty doesn't directly tie to the Amiga's past. Of course, that is one of the reasons that I think it is better. Tainting AROS with anything that could even spark an idea from Ainc that they might be able to sue is bad in my book.

Something like this suggestion would be way better for a distribution logo. That way if AInc gets any bright ideas, it can just be dropped and something else picked. The Kitty mascot, with the cats eye logo is really a very good logo.

The problem with paying homage to the past is that if you have too many pieces from the other product, you could cause confusion. If you cause confusion, you are treading on thin ice concerning trademark. Since, the point of trademark is to prevent confusion. The difference between a product that looks the same, and a counterfeit are whether the product is being passed off as coming from someone else.

Getting rid of the rainbow check marks is a good idea. The checkerboard dartboard would make a lot of sense for Ainc, but it may be too close to a boing ball. The fact that it is a dartboard instead of an arrow target does make sense though, because the difference between a big dart, and a little arrow is only how you launch it.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kedawa on December 12, 2010, 08:22:28 PM: It's too damn busy. Keep it simple and elegant.
As an unofficial logo, an arrow shattering the boing ball would be perfect.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: obscurepanic on December 14, 2010, 06:48:22 AM: I think AROS doesn't need a logo or a mascot makeover.

Perhaps Icaros needs one badly. I don't like being stared by a scary eye.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: coldfish on December 14, 2010, 08:07:08 AM: Lidless...
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: paolone on December 14, 2010, 11:46:51 AM: Quote from: obscurepanic;598562
I think AROS doesn't need a logo or a mascot makeover.

Perhaps Icaros needs one badly. I don't like being stared by a scary eye.

I'd also prefer being stared by Belen Rodriguez' eyes, however I think cat's eye just works for now...
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: paolone on December 14, 2010, 11:49:07 AM: Anyway, back to the topic, I don't think AROS needs any fancier logo than the one it already has. This is just because you won't ever find any "aros-powered device", nor someone selling AROS to you, but - as like as linux - you will see different distributions based on the same, underlying technology. That's why you'll probably see Icaros Desktop and Broadways logos.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: gertsy on December 14, 2010, 11:57:54 AM: Quote from: Belial6;597972

And, I thought the cat's eye was the graphical logo.

Me too.

Perhaps you could have a picture of a Norwegian river's mouth. Much more etymological.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: skurk on December 14, 2010, 12:32:11 PM: Am I the only one who pronounce AROS as "aye-rows"? To me, the whole arrow thing doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Franko on December 14, 2010, 12:40:04 PM: Quote from: skurk;598593
Am I the only one who pronounce AROS as "aye-rows"? To me, the whole arrow thing doesn't make any sense.

Glad 'm not the only one... :)

I've been trying to figure out what those pictures of arrows had to do with anything... :confused:

but I pronounce it as A Ros (eh Ros)... :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: coldfish on December 14, 2010, 04:23:03 PM: A-Ross?
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Karlos on December 14, 2010, 04:32:28 PM: Quote from: coldfish;598631
A-Ross?

A Ross:

(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2008/07/02/ross460.jpg)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: kolla on December 14, 2010, 05:17:00 PM: Quote from: Belial6;598235
If your IP is still being sold with the trademark on it, it is still in use.

Even when there's other parties also selling their IP with the same trademark on and you do not do _anything_ to prevent them from doing so? That's more or less the definition of abandonment.

Quote
How easy or hard it is to remove is irrelevant to the fact that it is still being used on products that are still being sold. The fact that there is more than one trademark does not make it legal for you to use. The fact that you use it without getting sued does not make it legal for you to get used. That fact that I think it SHOULD be legal to use does not make it legal to use.

The fact that none of the involved parties, be it Amiga in its various incarnations, Cloanto, Hyperion or anyone else care about it, have not cared about it, have not protected it, have not used any legal actions against anyone for using it, have not even registered it - makes it perfectly legal. The fact that it shows up on the boot screen of OS2.0-3,9 is irrelevant, by that logic you can also say that it's not legal to use the purple colour used in the background.

Quote
Of course, the point that you challenge ME to sue you for a trademark that someone else owns indicates that either you have absolutely no clue what a trademark is, you are intentionally misstating your position in a hope to derail reasonable conversation.

I challanging YOU since you obviously care so much, and my eyes the logo in question is just as much YOUR property as anyone else. Who in your eyes would be the ones to sue me? Cloanto? Amiga Inc? Do you really think any of them care about the checkmark logo? Appearantly not. The only one really caring about it seems to be you.

Quote
Anyone who had any clue what a trademark was, would know that only the owners of the trademark, or maybe someone they licensed the rights to would have any claim to sue over a trademark.
And as I've mentioned umpteen times now, noone owns that trademark, as isn't a trademark anymore. They have since _long_ failed the obligations they had as trademark owners to protect it as a trademark. The ticker was replaced with the boing ball all over the place, with OS4.0 it also replaced the ticker in the boot screen, and that's already plenty of years ago.

Quote
In this discussion, I am on the defendants team. Or more accurately, suggesting that the group I want sticking around, not become defendants in a legal preceding. It would be stupid for the AROS group to use a mark that in anyway could lead to legal trouble when there is nothing to gain by doing it.

If you're so afraid of that, then perhaps they should change the name to something different than the much occupied "AROS" as well then. There are far more legal trouble surrounding _that_ then there is with the amiga checkmark.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: hardwired on December 23, 2010, 08:57:41 AM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;598145
I made this just for fun:
(...)
(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/cat4_cropped.png)

I've a small blog in that I write about AROS development, technical aspects, features and some PR from time to time...

(http://aros.sourceforge.net/downloads/kitty/aros02_big.png) (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:CaricaFoto%28%22http://aros.sourceforge.net/downloads/kitty/aros02_big.png%22%29;)

But my last post is all about AROS mascot Kitty... A well known character of the community but has been forgoten for a while and does not gather the sympathy of newer (and even some older) AROS users/fans!

So it's time time to address that - read the full post on:
Blog post - AROS Kitty! (http://aros-wandering.blogspot.com/2010/12/aros-kitty-sexy-and-so-lost.html)

I believe that AROS mascot needs more work such as the one from anglosaxonusa. Great work!

@anglosaxonusa
Do you made this with a vector art package? Can you provide the vector file if so?
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: anglosaxonusa on December 30, 2010, 03:20:09 PM: Quote from: hardwired;601061
I've a small blog in that I write about AROS development, technical aspects, features and some PR from time to time...

(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:CaricaFoto%28%22http://aros.sourceforge.net/downloads/kitty/aros02_big.png%22%29;)

But my last post is all about AROS mascot Kitty... A well known character of the community but has been forgoten for a while and does not gather the sympathy of newer (and even some older) AROS users/fans!

So it's time time to address that - read the full post on:
Blog post - AROS Kitty! (http://aros-wandering.blogspot.com/2010/12/aros-kitty-sexy-and-so-lost.html)

I believe that AROS mascot needs more work such as the one from anglosaxonusa. Great work!

@anglosaxonusa
Do you made this with a vector art package? Can you provide the vector file if so?

No problem. Send me a private message with your e-mail and I'll send off the SVG. The drawing was made with InkScape (on Windows), FYI.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: hardwired on February 21, 2011, 01:19:00 PM: I've did just that! Sorry for being so late!... Could you do more? I really loved your impression!!

Also on a later note MANU's impression of kitty is also on the move, meting my Blog challenge! Here it's his latest work (still early stages):

(http://cartoonspace.webs.com/ArosKitty3.jpg)

(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8815/quickndirtykitty.jpg)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: TheBilgeRat on February 21, 2011, 03:02:32 PM: too...much.....pussy (cat)!
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: cecilia on February 21, 2011, 04:07:22 PM: Quote from: anglosaxonusa;598236
Third shot:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4b.png)

Detail shot 1:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4d.png)

Detail shot 2:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4c.png)

The image appears to read well at a small scale:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros4h.png)

The heart is a play on "Eros" (love) and the assorted cupid connotations. The arrow is a phonetic play on AROS. The target-"O" is a foil for the arrow. The drawing of the cat "arching" links the logo with the mascot, and the mascot herself, links with Eros through her sexyness.

The image (like the drawing of the cat) are scalable vector graphics and can be scaled to any size. I'm using photobucket to host the svgs as pngs, which caused some quality loss in what you see.

What do you think?

Quote from: anglosaxonusa;598238
Brilliant! I'll see what I can come up with...

I tried integrating the gradient into the arrowshaft but it didn't come out right. The yellow shaft seems to work a lot better than rainbow gradient when tying it all together:

(http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb462/anglosaxonusa/aros3a.png)

this is excellent work! :pint:

I really need to learn how to use InkScape (linux)!!!
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: EDanaII on February 21, 2011, 11:25:56 PM: You do realize that Inkscape is available for more than just Linux, right?

Just checking... :)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: hardwired on June 23, 2011, 06:42:26 PM: (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1CP9klKCipQ/TgI2amOrudI/AAAAAAAAAHE/8NzXZylZJOg/s512/Kitty-coeur-color-brown-ok.png)

Alain Thelier has given another view regarding Kitty - Check it out on my blog:
http://aros-wandering.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: persia on June 24, 2011, 06:20:32 PM: Or perhaps River Song's mouth....

Quote from: gertsy;598589
Me too.

Perhaps you could have a picture of a Norwegian river's mouth. Much more etymological.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: hbarcellos on June 24, 2011, 07:39:18 PM: more features first. Logo later.
What's the current status of UAE integration? Can I double click on a 68k binary file, let's say, deluxe paint, powerpacker or turbo imploder and it will open up on an AROS window?

Compatibility with other video cards would also be a good solution. Running it on a virtual machine is SOOOOO boring
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: persia on June 24, 2011, 09:05:06 PM: Why is a virtual machine boring? Why in 2011 do you need to have a box for every OS you happen to have? In the end it's all software anyway. I love virtual machines. Who wants an MS Windows box just to run a couple MS Windows programs? Or a linux webserver? Or AROS? There's nothing particularly magical about running them on the own boxes except that Origin Energy (or whomever is your power company) gets a few extra bucks.

What's boring is a a machine that can only run one OS at a time.....

Quote from: hbarcellos;646920
more features first. Logo later.
What's the current status of UAE integration? Can I double click on a 68k binary file, let's say, deluxe paint, powerpacker or turbo imploder and it will open up on an AROS window?

Compatibility with other video cards would also be a good solution. Running it on a virtual machine is SOOOOO boring

(http://cybermantra.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/cyberhead-close-river.jpg)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: persia on June 24, 2011, 09:37:32 PM: How about this for a mascot?

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/Tom98915/movig%20gifs/badger-animated.gif)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: adz on June 24, 2011, 11:38:05 PM: This is getting creepy :nervous:
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: TheGoose on June 25, 2011, 01:04:26 AM: Quote from: tone007;597943
I like the current one.

Yeah, +1
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: TheGoose on June 25, 2011, 01:16:56 AM: Wait a minute, went backwards through the thread. So a red and white sexy kitty with an arrow going through it's guts, with Gwyneth Paltrow in the background somewhere,

We're going with that right? I got it right? Cause that's AWESOME!

Or...

We could get the monkey from JB and the Bear and just put him in rainbow checkered overalls, BAM! AROS. :hammer:
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Cammy on June 25, 2011, 07:44:51 AM: (http://aros-exec.org/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/11451/normal_Scanned%20Document.jpg)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: hardwired on July 05, 2011, 12:57:36 PM: Quote from: Cammy;646979
(http://aros-exec.org/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/11451/normal_Scanned%20Document.jpg)

Are you going to elaborate on that image?!?
Really would love to add another entry to my blog - So if you do drop-me an email...
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Templario on July 05, 2011, 02:19:48 PM: I like the Kitty mascot for AROS, although I use Amiga OS4 and the boing ball is good one mascot will be perfect too.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: Templario on July 05, 2011, 02:21:28 PM: Quote from: persia;646940
How about this for a mascot?

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/Tom98915/movig%20gifs/badger-animated.gif)
it is horrible!
Even I don't like it with the Hollywood example.
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: persia on July 05, 2011, 02:29:55 PM: There's always the banana...

(http://images.stanzapub.com/readers/2008/10/07/dancingbanana_1.gif)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: TheGoose on July 05, 2011, 02:42:41 PM: Quote from: persia;648274
There's always the banana...

That has been taken, good one though:

(http://toastytech.com/guis/banana-intro.gif)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: gertsy on July 05, 2011, 02:44:43 PM: Quote from: persia;646940
How about this for a mascot?

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/Tom98915/movig%20gifs/badger-animated.gif)

Perfect in many ways persia...
Bananas R too expensive anyway...!
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: danwood on July 05, 2011, 04:16:42 PM: Quote from: persia;646940
How about this for a mascot?

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/Tom98915/movig%20gifs/badger-animated.gif)

Ahhh Footy footy footy footy..

http://youtu.be/yrYuDGWBJEk
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: danwood on July 05, 2011, 04:21:18 PM: Quote from: Karlos;598633
A Ross:

(http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2008/07/02/ross460.jpg)

J Ross more like
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: hardwired on April 20, 2012, 10:02:21 AM: I got this picture from Sami Ryhänen - You guessed another Kitty artistic impression:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4Dw3axd1kQM/T5EaPuqKpeI/AAAAAAAAALk/0thw-hsCdIY/s1600/SamiRyhanenkitty.png)

Real good work! And definitely different enough from the original to have it's own place in the Kitty Gallery! It even adds a signature for Kitty (Good for autographs an stuff I guess)...

You can read the rest in blog: AROS Kitty Again (http://aros-wandering.blogspot.pt/2012/04/ive-already-been-told-to-change-blog-or.html)... It rants around Mascot notability and such on Wikipedia...

But the real issue here is: Keep it coming - more and more stuff regarding Kitty! Keep sharing, I'll do the same! ;-)

Cammy: I'm still awaiting on the Kitty drawing development! ;)
Title: Re: Logos vs Mascots (AROS)
Post by: fishy_fiz on April 20, 2012, 10:40:57 AM: That's horrible. Sorry, dont mean to be so blatantly negative towards someones work, but thats probably the worst kitty picture Ive seen. Also the biggest cause for complaint in a Kitty picture Ive seen yet.
Kitty is supposed to be a lot more cutesy and cartoon like. This image is a lot more adult and not particularly well drawn. Not to mention she looks anorexic and hideous, even if disregarding the very average drawing itself.