Wii vs. CD32

[arkpandora]

And how well could Intel counter Commodore slamming the X86 like Sega was doing with the SNES?

Also if Commodore had Amiga kiosks like Sega did (and later Nintendo when they saw what Sega was doing) including roaming kiosks that during summers are deployed at major events.

If done right youth would be exposed to far more Amiga marketing then X86 marketing thus kids would beg their parents to not get a lame X86 but a cool Amiga like the one they say on TV, print ads and they played on Amiga kiosks.

I think that nothing could have countered the x86 PCs as long as their attraction was driven by as primary and unconscious impulses as the one I describe in my last post.  In this respect, linking the Amiga name with a console, whatever the kind of advertising, could only finish the Amiga.  This phenomenon should have been overcome by intelligence and information.  But, more or less wittingly, most journalists chose to embrace the public's primary views instead of guiding them.  And that was it.

[Psy]

arkpandora wrote:

I think that nothing could have countered the x86 PCs as long as their attraction was driven by as primary and unconscious impulses as the one I describe in my last post.  In this respect, linking the Amiga name with a console, whatever the kind of advertising, could only finish the Amiga.  This phenomenon should have been overcome by intelligence and information.  Instead most journalists chose to embrace the public's primary views instead of guiding them.  And that was it.

Ahh but Sega like marketing would only be to grab the attention of the consumer and get the system on store shelfs of major chains.  In North America even the Sega Master System was far easier to get then a Amiga as you could get the Sega Master System at Toys 'R Us, Sears, ect while only a few retailers carried the Amiga.  It wouldn't take much to show the Amiga could also do serious work.  With having Amiga kiosks run of hard drives Commodore could have it run though both games and productivity software when no one is using it and have a menu selection to so you can sample some software.

If Amiga had a dominant presence at the big retail chains then when the new computer users asked a Sears sales person about a home computer they would point them to the Amiga as they would have a Amiga kiosk that Commodore would have had a deal with Sears to have up and running, which would make the sales person job much easier so the sale person would try and push the customers towards the Amiga simply because it would be the path of least of resistance for them.

[arkpandora]

Sorry, I forgot to reply.

As popularity of the consoles and "portable" computers (such as the A600 or A1200) was the commercial enemy of the high-end computers of the same brand, I think that promoting the high-end Amiga computers would have been the only way to help the Amiga as a computer, since you couldn't find any PC or Mac in those chains.  However, in such a human context, I think that promoting them along with a game console could have been enough to cancel any positive result, as even numerous video games journalists have ignored the high-end Amiga models just because there were those low-end models.

[Hammer]

And how well could Intel counter Commodore slamming the X86 like Sega was doing with the SNES?

Intel has sizable marketing dollars to spend. Secondly, 1993 built PCs can run the game called Doom.

Compared to the Amiga, the X86 was a pain in the ass.

Depends on the Amiga machine i.e. running legacy A500 games on A1200/020 i.e. running degrader or retrokick. On both sides, dealing with legacy software can be an issue.

In 1993, I have an A3000/030@25Mhz which can't run some  A500 games.

At 1993 time period, there was a hole in CBM’s A1200/20 and A4000/040 line up i.e. mid-range price PC. A3000’s IGP was not competitive against a similar priced X86 PC. A4000/030 was release later but it was too late.

[Hammer]

arkpandora wrote:

I've always been a PC user, but all the fussing around with conflicting IRQ's of soundcards and things like that. I got myself my first Amiga500 back in 1998 or so, and had to get used to it's user friendlyness

Most people (including most journalists - even Amiga specialists) since the 80s thought that bad architecture and operating system were the necessary drawbacks of any computer that was not a simple game console.  The reason for this is that these features were associated with the compatible PC computers which were in turn associated with both professional use and big-sized (even empty) desktop or tower boxes, both of which are strongly linked with a vulgar masculine obsession with power and "size".  As this obsession was unconscious, it may be enough to explain the monopoly of the worst computers and the fall of the Amiga.

X86 PC clone distribution model with a single standard was considered to be superior to 68K PC’s fragmented model.

[arkpandora]

X86 PC clone distribution model with a single standard was considered to be superior to 68K PC’s fragmented model.

I don't understand you : the Amiga was a single standard as well, and the Mac - which unlike the Amiga has survived - was not different from the Amiga on that score.  On the contrary, x86 PC clones had an almost infinite number of models since they were not bound to only one brand.

[HopperJF]

LoadWB wrote:
I have to say that the simplicity of the Nintendo games is highly attractive and addictive.  It amazes me that Nintendo makes a fortune out of regurgitating a lot of the same games or game play, but it does.  Not to say it does not come out with some newer stuff once in a while, but you have to ask why the same old crap is so popular with kids and adults alike.

I think it is quite simple, and illustrated in a conversation I had with a philosophy major a while back.  He says that when you reach a certain age, you begin rejecting new achievements and advancements, and that applies to music, games, etc.  My retort was that new things are often good and often bad, but what makes old things so good is not necessarily the nostalgia, but that there are plenty of old things which are timeless; think about how some games, no matter how they age, are still fun and challenging to play.

Indeed, JOUST is still an excellent ST/Amiga game  :-D

[Tomas]

Xamiche wrote:
Oh, the "Nintendo only has kids games" line again.  :roll:
This was a crock when it was first said, and it's a crock now. I smell the tall poppy syndrome. I think Xbox and PS fanboys are a little disgruntled at the Wii's success.

I think people just like generating controversy by saying stuff like 'I'd take CD32 any day over Wii'. I mean come on, are you serious? Like alexh, I'm an Amiga fanboy too, but the CD32 seriously has nothing on the Wii. The CD32 was a mediocre console even when it was new. I still love the little beast, because it's Amiga, but it seriously lacks. Mostly because Commodore went bust just after it's release. Had they been around to support it, it may have grown into a great console, with a great range of games.

As for Wii being a console where you have to move alot, I think that's the whole point.  :-D

Well, i have owned both the wii, xbox 360 and the ps3. I ended up selling the Wii and getting a PS3 simply because 99% of the games were horrible. The good titles that are non party games can be counted on a single hand. Even the PS3 has more decent titles. The cd32 had few games, but more good titles than the Wii imo. I know of alot of people who bought wii to only let it collect dust after playing with it for a month or two. Ontop of that the graphics on most games dont look better than the gamecube and sometimes even not even as good as a average ps2 game. The only interesting thing about it is the wiimote..

[Cammy]

Hiddenevil wrote:

The CD32..feels more arcade..which is was i like about it.

Now all we need are some people to band together and make games for the ruddy thing!

You may be pleased to know that such a band exists! We're called Underground Arcade, and we're dedicated to bringing out quality games for classic Amigas, including the CD32! Among the games we're working on are a horizontal shoot'em'up and a platform adventure game, but there are many more planned. And we're looking for more members to join our band, so if anyone's interested, PM me!

For more info, here's our blog - http://undergroundarcade.blogspot.com/

As for the Wii vs the CD32, I like them both. The CD32 certainly has more games available to it at the moment (the full CD32 & CDTV library, plus nearly all A500 and some A1200 games through WHDLoad+CD-R), but the Wii has the Virtual Console, which has a good range of games to choose from, as well as the native Wii and Gamecube games that run on it, plus it's only the beginning, there are bound to be some decent games coming out for it. I've played SM Galaxy, Zelda, Wii Sports, Wii Play and Transformers so far, none of them really grabbed me except for Mario's beautiful graphics and music, but I still prefer Super Mario World over it just for the tighter, more responsive gameplay.

One thing I really like about the Wii is its power consumption. It's certainly the greenest and cheapest to run of all the modern consoles, plus the initial cost is less than the 360 and PS3. Check this out..

X-Box 360 uses 185W during gameplay, Playstation 3 uses 193W, and the Wii uses 17W.

So, here's the advantages I see for each console, CD32 and Wii:

CD32

* Expandable enough to be used as a full computer.
* Massive range of good oldschool games available if you can burn your own CD-Rs.
* Anyone can develop their own games easily for them using the huge selection of Amiga software available for use both on the machine itself, or on any Amiga.
* Low power consumption.

Wii

* Lots of controller options with the Wiimote, nunchuck, classic controller, or Gamecube controllers.
* Large range of classic console games available through the Virtual Console, as well as modern games using 3D graphics and Wiimotes.
* Low power consumption.
* Some people actually get fit using it!!!

I can't say if one is better than the other, but they're both great consoles. I guess it all depends on which machine has the more games that you like on it. Still, there's just something special about the Amiga that makes me feel more creative, so I'd rather make new games for the old CD32 than for the Wii, even though it's capable of more.

Psy, I totally agree, if Commodore had put Amiga Kiosks in shops for people to try out, it would have boosted sales massively. I also think if Commodore had used Amiga technology (but with a ROM instead of floppy disk) as the basis of an arcade machine (like SNK's Neo Geo) and contracted some decent developers to make a range of arcade games, then offered "arcade perfect ports ONLY for Amiga" it would have sparked more interest in the Amiga as a games platform.

[stefcep2]

Well, i have owned both the wii, xbox 360 and the ps3. I ended up selling the Wii and getting a PS3 simply because 99% of the games were horrible. The good titles that are non party games can be counted on a single hand. Even the PS3 has more decent titles. The cd32 had few games, but more good titles than the Wii imo. I know of alot of people who bought wii to only let it collect dust after playing with it for a month or two. Ontop of that the graphics on most games dont look better than the gamecube and sometimes even not even as good as a average ps2 game. The only interesting thing about it is the wiimote..

I know people who have done the same but every one of them has just one software title: Wii sports.

If you play the Wii on 480p 16:9 the graphics are fine: to suggest that the PS2 has better graphics than Wii, when the PS2 doesn't even have better graphics than a Gamecube, is just plain false.

The current PS3 software range has widely been criticised  as the worst of all current gen consoles.

The only interesting thing is the Wii remote?  But the games are rubbish?  doesn't make sense: whats interesting about the remote if the remote lets you interact with the game but the games are rubbish?  the plastic?, the buttons?

Nintendo is the the best  game software developer in the world in terms of innovation and gameplay, bar none.  

Yes Nintendo titles make extensive use of Nintendo mascots, but the game play in games such as Mario 64, Mario Sunshine , Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart (any version), Mario Tennis, Mario Smash Football, Metroid, Zelda Fzero is the best in that genre, on any platform.  I bought a PS2 to play ProEvo, and nothing else.

Even if all you could buy was Nintendo software its still worth it to get a Wii, especially that you can play Gamecube games (highly under-achieving console) that look great in 16:9 480p, some N64 SNES NES greats as well. Its the exclusives that matter, not the generic 3rd Party stuff.  

And its about FUN, and all Nintendo games I have played, have it in spades. How can anyone even vaguely suggest the CD32 software library is even in the same class?

[stefcep2]

At 1993 time period, there was a hole in CBM’s A1200/20 and A4000/040 line up i.e. mid-range price PC. A3000’s IGP was not competitive against a similar priced X86 PC. A4000/030 was release later but it was too late.

Its interesting because it parallels what Apple did when Jobs arrived.  At the time, Apple was making many different models, and even licensing the OS to third parties to build Mac clones.  Jobs cancelled the clones, and reduced the Apple lineup to the Imac with the colored monitors for home use, and the Blue and White G3 tower for professional use.  This is like the A1200 and the A4000 respectively.  It worked for Apple but not Commodore.  Why?  I don't think enough was done to promote the A4000, the A1200 as stock was pretty useless and had to be upgraded, the initial purchase price gap b/w A1200 and A4000 was too great for too little gain and I think the Amiga users at the time were different to the Apple users: there were a lot of advanced home users who wanted the power of an A4000 but didn't have the money.