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Offline BlombergTopic starter

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Amithlon/Windows install questions
« on: November 25, 2002, 12:54:39 PM »
I want to install Amithlon and dual boot with Windows 2000 Pro (don't hit me   :-D)

My partitions are the following (they're all on one physical disk):

Win2000 (C:)
BeOS (invisible to Windows) (5gig partition)
D:
E:
F:

I want to install Amithlon instead of the BeOS partition because it's the only one available.
I read on amithlon.net that I have to make a 10mb FAT32 partition for Amithlon and then dedicate the rest of the disk (partition in this case) to AmigaOS.
But if I make a FAT partition at this point it will be visible in Windows as a new D: drive, thereby screwing up everything (shortcuts and programs) except the C: drive.

How do I go about making an invisible boot partition for Amithlon and invisible partitions for AmigaOS and Work?
Repartitioning the whole disk is not an option, since I have about 60gigs of data on there and only a 20gig spare disk.

And also, which boot loader should I use? I'm a newbie at dual booting so something simple would be nice (too bad I can't keep using the Be boot loader).

Offline AMIGA-FAN

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2002, 01:27:05 PM »
Read the "Hard Disk install" guide on AMITHLON.NET WEB site. There you'll find the complete installation procedure and instructions on how to create an AMIGA partition, therefore a partition that will not be visible to Windows. You'll have to use a program similar to the Microsoft's FDISK that you can download directly from within the document itself. With that program you'll be able to create Windows/UNIX/AMIGA partition all in one go on the same disk by setting the appropriate partition type. I'm not sure if you can create an AMITHLON partition not visible to Windows (mine is a FAT 32 Windows partition and I boot up AMITHLON directly from DOS). You' ll also need to create a basic LINUX floppy which will let you start your system from a LINUX environment as the FDISK program will run under LINUX). This installation process is a bit long and time consuming but it works fine. Also, you won't need to reformat the entire disk as it will allow you to simply change your BeOS partition to an AMIGA partition without screwing up your HD.

Regards.
 :-o  :-o
 

Offline BlombergTopic starter

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2002, 01:36:34 PM »
I just re-read the amithlon.net guide, and I don't know if I understood it correctly, but is it possible to boot amithlon from a folder (drawer  :-) ) on the Windows partition (C:) without the 10 mb boot partition?
In that case I would only have to convert the BeOS partition to a virtual drive (same size as before), which can then be partitioned from AmigaOS to the parts I need in AmigaOS (System, Work etc.)?

Btw., my Win partition is FAT32 but since it is Windows 2000, there is no DOS.

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2002, 02:04:31 PM »
Quote

Blomberg wrote:
I just re-read the amithlon.net guide, and I don't know if I understood it correctly, but is it possible to boot amithlon from a folder (drawer  :-) ) on the Windows partition (C:) without the 10 mb boot partition?
In that case I would only have to convert the BeOS partition to a virtual drive (same size as before), which can then be partitioned from AmigaOS to the parts I need in AmigaOS (System, Work etc.)?

Btw., my Win partition is FAT32 but since it is Windows 2000, there is no DOS.


The easiest way would be to use your existing FAT/FAT32 boot partition to launch Amithlon (keep Windows there, it won't mind) and just convert your BeOS partition to type 72 using a linux bootdisk and linux fdisk. Er well, this would be the easy way if you had a DOS boot option in the Win2k bootmenu :/ ... adding it after the fact is a pain...

You could use a dos bootdisk however, and launch Amithlon from the Fat32 slice that way.

There's a way to add DOS boot support and add it to the NTloader menu after the fact, but it's messy and a pain in the rear, not to mention doesn't always work. It requires the first 512k (?) be copied into a bootsect.dos (?) file after you set up a DOS partition or something along those lines.

I betcha Bernd has this whole HD install thing automated and waiting to be released as V2, if the bloodsucking scoundrels ever go away!


this space for rent
 

Offline AMIGA-FAN

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2002, 02:05:00 PM »
"but is it possible to boot amithlon from a folder (drawer  ) on the Windows partition (C:) without the 10 mb boot partition?"

Well, it is possible as you can put the AMITHLON stuff in any drawer you'd want, as those files are basically programs that are to be started from DOS, but I would not recommend it, and you can do it as long as you are able to run DOS programs from a DOS environment, otherwise you'll have to do this in another way, say from within Win2000. As suggested in the HD install guide, it's better to have a small Windows partition (around 10 MB in size) where you'll put all stuff that AMITHLON needs to boot (i.e. the kernels and all other configuration files, EMUBOX, bigird, bootird, EMUBOXfd etc.) and dedicate the rest of you 20GB partition to AMIGA partitions. So, in your case, I would split your 20GB partition in 3/4 smaller partitions, one would be a Windows partition (for AMITHLON stuff) and the other 2/3 for AMIGA disks (System:, Work; etc.). remember that you can set up the partition type for each with FDISK. I'm not using Windows 2000 but Win98 SE and therefore when I want to run AMITHLON I just need to stop the Win98 boot with F8 and enter plain DOS mode, issue a CD command to disk G: (where I have my AMITHLON boot files) and issue a DOS command like:  loadlin @amithlon. This will start the AMITHLON boot procedure which will put me in an AMIGA environemt with no Windows OS running in background. Since from Win2000 you say it is not possible to switch to plain DOS mode, you'll have to find an alternate mode to start the small LINUX environment from within Win2000 boot procedure.
 

Offline BlombergTopic starter

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2002, 02:23:19 PM »
Hmm, since it's apparently a bit of a hassle to get Windows to boot the thing, can't I just use a boot-loader like Lilo or Grub - or whatever people use - to load Amithlon from the folder on my Win partition?

The approach with the virtual drive instead of my 5 gig BeOS partition and then the Amithlon thing in a folder on C: is the best option for me. I'd rather not have anything installed on my spare drive (the 20gig) since I use it to transfer stuff and the occasional backup as well.

Offline AMIGA-FAN

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2002, 02:50:16 PM »
Well, if you don't want to screw up all of your programs and shortcuts, your only option is to use your existing FAT/FAT32 partition and create a drawer (C:\AMITHLON for instance) on C: where you'll put all AMITHLON boot stuff. Your old BeOS partition will therefore be used entirely to store AMIGA OS partitions, that can be created with the linux based fdisk program (boot your PC with the small linux diskette containing the fdisk program). I did not have this problem with shurtcuts and programs as the partitions I allocated for AMITHLON and AMIGA where phisically after C:, D:, and E: disks, so after everything needed by Win98 OS and after all the partitions for programs and data, therefore on diks F:, G: etc., so no disks letters reallocation and, consequently, no screwing up. As mentioned in another reply to your questions, you can kick the AMITHLON boot from, for instance, C:\AMITHLON as long as you can enter/setup a DOS mode from Win2000, otherwise your only option is to boot your PC in a plain DOS mode with a suitable DOS boot diskette, CD to C:\AMITHLON and issue the command:  loadlin @amithlon once you have properly modified the appropriate configuration file (amithlon) as to your needs (again, instructions on the HD install guide, particularly regarding the kernel file you'll need which mainly depends on the GFX card you have and the amount of memory you have in your PC). This way, Win2000 will not be running (and needs not) and your PC will be entirely dedicated at running AMITHLON. :-)
 

Offline AMIGA-FAN

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2002, 03:21:32 PM »
You don't need Windows to run AMITHLON. AMITHLON runs on its own and does NOT need any WinOS. You only need a Windows partition/drawer where you'll put AMITHLON boot files (boot loader, kernels and configurations files). That's all you need to run AMITHLON. It's up to you to decide whether you want to use "loadlin" as your AMITHLON boot loader rather than lilo or grub. I'm actually using loadlin which is, in my opinion, very simple and pretty straightforward to use/configure. These files (bootloader, kernels etc.) can be found on AMITHLON download area (download ALL files, kernels and patches you can find there) and extract all files from those archives to a temporary directory, for instance C:\temp. Then copy across only the files you really need (kernel and boot loader loadlin) to your C:\AMITHLON directory, that is the directory where you start the whole thing up from DOS. You'll have to create a DOS boot diskette to be able to start your PC in plain DOS mode (in win98 you can create an emergency diskette with which you can boot your PC in DOS mode should Windows get screwed up: this way you can sort things out and restore your PC which will put you back in business...). Once in DOS mode, you can start AMITHLON by running loadlin and specifying on the command line the configuration file you need for AMITHLON (the file is named amithlon and specifies the kernel you want to use, the amount of memory allocated for system resources etc.).  :-)
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2002, 03:26:56 PM »
Quote

Blomberg wrote:
Hmm, since it's apparently a bit of a hassle to get Windows to boot the thing, can't I just use a boot-loader like Lilo or Grub - or whatever people use - to load Amithlon from the folder on my Win partition?

The approach with the virtual drive instead of my 5 gig BeOS partition and then the Amithlon thing in a folder on C: is the best option for me. I'd rather not have anything installed on my spare drive (the 20gig) since I use it to transfer stuff and the occasional backup as well.

That's the ideal way to set it up.  I've had it running like that for ages, with LILO as the boot manager, though GRUB will do the job just as well.

Loading Windows first is a bad idea.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline BlombergTopic starter

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2002, 03:41:39 PM »
@ Amiga-fan

Yes yes yes, I know *it* doesn't need Windows, but *I* do  :-D

I've decided to make a boot diskette to start the kernel from C:\amithlon until I find a proper bootloader (and find out how to use it : )
However, that presents another problem.
I can not make a simple bootable DOS diskette from Windows 2000, there is no SYS command whatsoever (AFAIK).
I also tried making one from my old Win98 and ME boot floppies, but for some reason, that didn't work either.
What files do I need to have on the disk to get a simple DOS command prompt?
I suppose I could copy them over from my 98 or ME CD, if that will do the trick.

Offline BlombergTopic starter

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2002, 03:56:41 PM »
@Bill Hogget

Quote
Loading Windows first is a bad idea.

Yes I know, I didn't intend to load the complete Windows, just enough to get to the bootloader - but since it's apparently not capable of running the dos command (as it is now - no DOS) to start amithlon, I'm looking for something with an option to choose between starting Windows from C: or Amithlon from C:\amithlon.
Will Lilo or Grub do this, or does it have to be on separate partitions?

Again, I'm new to bootloaders so please forgive my ignorance  :-D

Offline rubjonny

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2002, 04:36:10 PM »
For all your boot disk needs, check this page:

http://support.micronpc.com/file_lib/boot.html

Just download the one at the top of the list (98BOT10A.EXE) and run it from a command line and it should extract itself to a floppy.

Now all you need to do is boot from it, and press 'shift+f5' when you get to the cdrom menu and you'll get a barebones c: prompt!

You can even modify the config.sys and autoexec.bat files to get an extra 'amithlon' menu option if you like, but it starts getting complex when you do that!
Cheers,

John Newman
http://www.moddin.net
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Amithlon/Windows install questions
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2002, 05:29:52 PM »
Quote
Will Lilo or Grub do this, or does it have to be on separate partitions?

Both LILO and GRUB will do it. I have Linux installed, as well as Windows and Amithlon, so my boot files reside on the Linux "/boot" partition, but you can just as easily put them on the Windows C:\ drive.
Bill Hoggett