I got ripped off on a dead Amiga 4000

[ceaser]

I bought this from someone on Ebay via credit card.   280359148235
I'm about to contest the purchase and never use Ebay every again.  Let me also mention; please do not post any "send it to our repair center" type stuff in response to this.  If you do fine I can't do anything about it.  But just understand I'm not sending my hardware to someone else unless I know them personally.

Symptoms: not much, grey screen I guess you could say dark.  The Amiga is sending something to the monitor.  It flicks on when the Amiga is powered on.  It's a Amiga 4000/040 with a case design that looks like a microwave.  The guy who sold it to me has a much better camera than me so I suggest you look at that listing # to see what it looks like.  Please don't ask me to specify further those pics are better than anything I can get.

Condition it came in: the CPU board was totally loose in there for one.  And the floppy drive won't make a sound.  It's getting power.  I reversed the floppy ribbon just to make sure I got a power light and put it back the right way.  This box has the adapter that fixes the bad floppy cable that was shipped with these.  That thing is pretty weak it doesn't stay in place very well but it's also not the problem.

Why I expected it to work: In the listing it said it was working.  And one of the pictures was showing Workbench 3.0 working.  Unfortunately it only has 3.0 roms but I still wanted the box.  I totally expected to see workbench come up after the HD loaded.  But it's just this nothing grey screen.  Also in the listing you'll see many key points that make it sound like he had the maintenence done.  The RAM clips are new.  The battery is new.  

What I've done: I've tried disconnecting everything but the floppy and putting games in there as well as old workbench disks.  I've tried both AGA games and regular old games and quite a few bootable workbench 1.3 disks.  I do not have a Workbench 3.0 floppy.  Trying to make one on my PC right now but have no idea how to.  I kind of was under the impression you needed to use WHDLoad along with an Amiga with a HDD to do that.  Not sure though.  I've put just a CD-ROM on the IDE chain as I know the IDE chain on A4000 sucks and doesn't work correctly with 2 things on the IDE chain.  It doesn't do anything when I put a CD in.  The drive is off an old PC and works for sure.  And the disk spins up in there but NOTHING happens on screen.  I ordered IDE fix but haven't got that yet.  I wouldn't have ordered it if I knew this thing was dead.

Why?:  Why isn't there any of those colors it's supposed to show when an Amiga has hardware problems?  This monitor is a Commodore 1960 and I tested it on my PC in VGA modes and it works.  It definitely should be showing one of those screens.  It's a proper commodore VGA adapter too, the chrome 23 to VGA adapter.  The only thing it does at all is the HDD populates and light comes on briefly when you first turn it on, and it responds to control-Amiga-Amiga reboot, but there's nothing to boot.  The HDD repopulates and the power light goes on and off though so that's doing something.  The seller is super slow with responses.  He also I notice has in his listing that it works but also that he doesn't give refunds.  So geez I wonder why you wouldn't give a refund but you say it works.  I feel that I've bought someone's problem here.

But can I do something?  I don't take IC's (I consider any circut on a motherboard to be an integrated circut.  I understand that on Amiga they're referred to as custom chips because they handle functions for the CPU.) off motherboards like I've read a lot of people doing.  If this thing was truly not completely dead when the guy had it, then I shouldn't have to do anything like that.  Also it has this 2 power supply thing.  One is this Dataflyer PSU that I don't know why it's there.  The other is the regular Amiga 4000 power supply.  I've tried all kinds of different hookups.  Not hooking up the extra power to the expansion cards (there is a single PX4 connector with 3 wires in it for either full power or maybe only extra power to the Dataflyer expansion card side), hooking it up with the top power supply, hooking it up with the bottom power supply, tried some jumpers I guess there's 1 that switches between NTSC and PAL and another that's supposed to be some RAM switcher but according to info I've found it doesn't do anything.

Despite how I sound I'm not too shabby at fixing computers.  Usually there's never a problem I can't fix.  But there's something really messed up with this computer.  Of course with PC's you just yank the part that's bad out of another PC since there's probably 4 dead ones laying around my house, dead just because I don't have extra HDD's for them.  There's just no leakage or anything you can see that would be wrong with this thing, yet it's not working at all.

Please please help.  Please no "just send it to our repair center" answers.

[Tension]

Power on the Amiga whilst holding down both mouse buttons.

Do you get the startup screen with boot options etc?

[nishtek]

Here's some advice:
- Post photos it would help.
- what monitors do you have at home? (amiga/pc etc).
- disconnect hard disk.  make sure floppy drive is connected properly.  make sure ram is well seated in sockets.  make sure processor card is firmly pressed.  ensure daughter board is firmlly pressed.  Then check also no damage to the case.   Once you do all this, connect your amiga to 1084 monitor (or 1080).  Try booting the Amiga, turn it on and wait up to 1 minute.  if you get a screen with disk then you're ok.  
if not then post photos of your motherboard, especially battery area.
- HINT: its worth buying A2000.  This way you can backup files/disks and have a reliable machine.
- Workbench 3.0 disks, email if you need them.

[Firedawg]

@ceaser

For the processor card, memory, and various cabling to become disconnected during shipping is a 100% guarantee.  I would go through the entire system and reseat and reconnect everything, especially the processor and memory for nothing will work if they are not right.  If still no joy, then disconnect everything other than the power supply, mainboard, memory, and processor.  Report back.......

Note:  With just the power supply connected to the mainboard and just the processor and memory seated this will give you the basic connections.  If everything is fine at this level you should see the request for workbench disk.

The Dawg

[Matt_H]

First, get rid of the CD drive. Even if the system was working perfectly, the drive wouldn't do anything. It's not bootable, and right now it's just additional clutter on your IDE bus introducing another variable into your problems.

Pay very close attention to the power LED. It has two brightness levels. It starts dim, and if everything checks out, it should jump to the brighter setting and start the boot process.  It should also be accompanied by a little flickery jump on the monitor.

If the power LED never jumps to the brighter setting, that often suggests a loose connection between the CPU card and the motherboard - even if it looks rock solid. Double check it, then triple check it.

(And that board on the back of the floppy drive isn't to correct for a bad cable. It's a dedicated circuit, originally sold with that very drive as a complete high-density floppy package.)

Others here have reported floppy cables as responsible for dead-like symptoms, so try replacing it or omitting it. The latter will introduce a natural delay in booting, so be patient if things still look the same.

There is also the possibility that the machine just simply died before it got to you. I have a 4000 here that was working beautifully one day and was completely toasted the next due to capacitor damage (which I should have seen coming - no battery damage, though!).

Here's a direct link to the auction for others to check the photos.

[tone007]

I feel that I've bought someone's problem here.

That's exactly what most Amigas are, especially after 15-20 years of floating around.

Think how much more you'll like it when you get it running, though.

[nutyamiga]

I have had a dead 4000 with simler problem and it was the BUSTER CHIP not seated properly , so check it. i removed it and put itback in.

[TheMagicM]

if he has it listed as working you cant blame him for the shipping damage.   If you do end up going that route, I hope you dont rip him off and file a claim and end up keeping the A4000 and the refund.  (its happened to me before..theres losers as sellers and buyers)

Do what others have posted to see if its something that needs to be reseated.  I hope you know what you're doing and dont screw it up more.  (I've had that happen to me also)

[ChaosLord]

I had the exact same problem before.  I absolutely could not get it running again.  The problem started on a very hot day in 1997 when the air conditioning was broken.  So I figured something melted and it was hopeless.

So my poor A4000/040 sat in a box for several years.  Finally, in 2004 I gave it away FOR FREE to an experienced Amiga guy.  He got it running on the very first day!  He didn't even swap out any parts!  WTH!?  He said he just took everything apart, cleaned it thoroughly and put it all back together and it worked.

Then he sold it on Ebay for a zillion $.

[TjLaZer]

It looks like it got damaged in transit.  The listing and seller look legit.  The system is old so please try and be understanding.  You got a good deal for it and even the case is rare.  I would just keep it and buy another MB, IMHO!  It would be worth it.  Or you can send it off to Amiga Center in France to fix it.  Well worth it.  I know you are mad but this stuff happens especially for vintage computer gear.  The 4000 is not very stable to begin with.  I have had a few 4000's die out of the blue too.  I now have like 5 as backups! LOL

I would disassemble it down to the bare MB and reconnect the floppy, PS, memory chips and daughter board and CPU card and see if you get a KS boot screen (purple insert disk screen)  Give it about a minute for this screen to show up if there is no IDE device connected.

[ceaser]

Power on the Amiga whilst holding down both mouse buttons.

Do you get the startup screen with boot options etc?

it's gone white.  hmm.  that's something vastly different.  progress?

[amiga4ever]

ceaser: getting them to work after 20 years is the fun part. i would not be so quick to say that you have "purchased someone else's problem". the guy probably shipped it out in perfect working order. however, 4000's are very delicate and shipment companies are not known for their delicate handling of items.

stick with it...you'll get it going again!! :-)

[ceaser]

ok we're getting some kinda luvin now.   White screen then flips green and stays...

[new2amga]

my A4000D was doing something similar.  Turned out there was corrosion around the crystal (I think that's what it's called the 4 Pin DIL connected box on the motherboard) which was causing it to not connect always and I would get a dark gray screen or a black screen with everything cycling but nothing else.  So check those, I think they're called crystals, there should be 2 on the motherboard, they are socketed, so carefully pull them out and then put them back in the board in the exact same way you pulled them out, then try to boot the system.  It's worth a shot.

Nathan

*edit* Flashing green indicates some sort of chip error doesn't it?  When I remove my chip memory my screen flashes green.  BTW is that floppy drive listed really rare?  Someone here in town just gave me one of those drives today.  I put it in my A600 cause the floppy drive is completely toast!

[save2600]

@Ceaser,

You can't expect a computer system such as this with all its socketed chips, daughterboards, etc. to NOT come loose in transit. Hell, A500's and A2000's have had to have their Agnus chips reseated after UPS hauled them away from Commodore back in the day!

The seller looks legit and the screen did have Workbench up. If you are going to own an Amiga system, you MUST NOT be afraid to remove and reseat chips and components. That's common sense 101 when dealing with vintage computers.

Using a very small flat blade screwdriver, you may carefully pry up one end of a chip (I.C.). When you feel the pins have moved up slightly, you may then press down on the chip to reseat it. That "fixes" most chip/socket problems. If not, the more aggressive thing to do is remove the chip completely (working your screwdriver from one end to the other carefully and slowly) and press it back in again. Assuming the legs/pins did not need to be cleaned. Look for oxidation on the pins and if necessary, light sand paper or better yet: a fibreglass brush may be used to clean them up.

The Busters people talk about require a PLCC chip removal tool (if it's not directly soldered to the board that is). Rat Shack sells them for $10 and are a necessity. NEVER try to remove one of those square chips with a regular screwdriver!!

Other scenario is that the capacitors on both the 040 card and audio sections could have been soldered in backwards. + <> - got reversed, causing the caps to blow up and leak their acidic spunk all over the board. VERY common when buying someone else's old Amiga 4000's.

One more thing: be sure to tighten the motherboard down with all the screws AFTER you've determined that the capacitors did not blow up. Good grounding is necessary for our Amiga's to behave properly. Removing the 040 board, observing that all those TINY pins are in alignment and reseating *IT* is also something you're going to have to do...

BTW: Great price you got there! Well, if you can get it to work that is  ;-)