Scandoubler / Flickerfixer solution!

[leirbag28]

 Ok........Dont know if anyone knows this, But here in the Good ole US of A, we dont use SCART......we either use the RGB out or S-Video out for clear pictures...........Now I imagine SCART is the UK's version of S-Video.so I also imagie their is a USA version of this RGB to XGA convertor..if not..........I think I know how to get it to work..........their is an RB cable for the AMiga that splits up into those 4 color composite BNC thingies.........I think they were for the Toaster..........so just plug those 4 cables into the BNC to SCART thingy and the SCART into the XGA box :-)   That might do it ? :-)

If not...I will have to buy a SCART cable.  I hate those things. :-)

[humppa]

leirbag28 wrote: Now I imagine SCART is the UK's version of S-Video.

Nope. SCART is not any kind of signal, it's simply a connector which is common in Europe (originates from France). SCART can carry either S-Video or RGB signals at the same time.

their is an RB cable for the AMiga that splits up into those 4 color composite BNC thingies

Hmmm, I am not 100% sure what you mean here but maybe you confuse it with Component video? The connectors look like BNC-connectors but you need to do a color-tranformation when going from RGB to Component YPbPr - so it does not work with a simple cable.
Going from RGBHV to BNC should not be a problem however.

[amigadave]

humppa wrote:

leirbag28 wrote: Now I imagine SCART is the UK's version of S-Video.

Nope. SCART is not any kind of signal, it's simply a connector which is common in Europe (originates from France). SCART can carry either S-Video or RGB signals at the same time.

Okay, the SCART carrying both signals at the same time is something that most American Amiga users might not know.  It appeared to me that the devices being pointed to accepted composite video in sources, not 15kHz RGB sources and scan doubled them to output on a PC monitor or LCD screen.  There was also a 15 pin VGA pass-through so you could also connect your PC video card output and just use one monitor/LCD screen to view both devices.  I want to believe that these things work on an Amiga for everyone's sake, but I have not heard from anyone using one that has convinced me that it is scan doubling the RGB signal and not the composite signal, which it appears they were designed for.

Still, they are not cheap, but at least they are in production.

[humppa]

If you are speaking of simple VGA/TV boxes, yes, they usually use HF, Composite, S-Video, sometimes also Component input.

The device AmiDude was pointing at, however, could possibly accept RGB over SCART *directly*. This would mean a big improvement in picture quality since there is no signal loss.

However, I am not sure what they mean with "SCART Input - RGB Composite". Hopefully this is *real* RGB input, leaving Amiga's signal unchanged.
I recently bought a TV box (scan doubler if you want) and was very disappointed with image quality. For games it this would be acceptable, but the picture was also jumping up and down 10 pixels. That's why I am also looking for a different solution.

[AmiDude]

amigadave wrote:

I want to believe that these things work on an Amiga for everyone's sake, but I have not heard from anyone using one that has convinced me that it is scan doubling the RGB signal and not the composite signal, which it appears they were designed for.

Like I mentioned before: This device scandoubles the RGB-
SCART signal direct to VGA-SVGA-XGA, so no problem there!
If you're looking for a real good SD/FF, then this is simply it! You can even hook and power-up your Amiga and PC at the same time! you can switch between the 2 computers by the remote-control's input button. ;-)

[darkcoder]

the "cypress" web site has the manual of the CM345S in pdf.
It says (page 3):

QUOTE

Input Selection :
Press the button to select between SCART input and PC-loop throught.
When scart input is selected CM-345S will outomatically detect the
SCART input as a RGB signal or composite video signal.

/QUOTE

so it seems to be what we were looking for... :-)

[humppa]

@AmiDude: You could maybe post some screenshots of the box running games/workbench on your monitor?

icbrkr posted a review some time ago which I found very helpful:
http://tinyurl.com/ayuv9
http://www.particles.org/reviews/vgabox.php

It would be great to see the difference between the two boxes (input Composite vs. input RGB).

[tobiaspb]

Yes.

A review would be great. And how about Super Hires modes? If it works there it would be super-hires great. ;-)

In the manual it states:
QUOTE:
50/60 Hz framerate conversion ensures glitch-free display of PAL source on any monitor.
ENDQUOTE

What do this mean?

[AmiDude]

@humppa

I will make some photo's of the workbench and games
with the CM345S powered on. I'll try to upload this
to the forum as soon as possible. I could tell you
right now that the quality of those composite to vga/xga
boxes, are much less than this SCART-RGB to XGA device!
I know, because a few months ago I purcased an "XGA-box" with Composite/S-VHS input and it's really a piece of c**p! It gives a very fuzzy picture. I returned it to the store to get my money back. So, don't get one of those Composite2VGA boxes. You really get disapointed. :-(

@tobiaspb

It works with Super-Hires too! It gives a flicker-free picture in al Amiga Laced modes. So it's not only a
Scandoubler, but also a Flickerfixer! :-)  :banana:

[humppa]

This indeed sounds like a great device! Great to hear that you will upload some photos so that we can spot the difference.
Don't forget to include some close-ups like in the review.
I just hate this colour-bleeding which you get from TV/VGA-boxes when using Composite input.

I bought this one: http://www.px.com.tw/e/p03-Hotpro-3.php
A complete disaster! The picture never got stable with modes such as 640x256 or 320x256. Only when using interlace modes such as 640x512 the picture wasnt jittering - but no interlace, so flickering as hell. It also did not accept any signal from my good ole C64.
I just need to be sure that PAL game-resolutions look fine...

[vic20owner]

Could you post a pic of super hires laced on it? I'd love to see that working. No flicker? Really? Is this an LCD monitor or a standard monitor?

[AmiDude]

I've uploaded 11 pictures to the "Miscellaneous Amiga Images" section of this site. The names all start with
 "CM345S", so it's easy to find.

www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?c=16

I don't know when they're gonna be visible to watch though.
:roll:

@vic20owner
There's absolutely no flicker visible when displaying  Super-Hires-Laced screenmode!
 :-D

[zx6r6]

Aaaaargh....I don't believe it! After spending a fortune on boxes I thought I'd give my CM345S another try as your still singing its praises.
I tried it on my pc TFT monitor this time as opposed to my (CRT) Iiyama pro 454. Bl**dy thing works a treat!!! Being as my scart lead isnt shielded I can only assume that the Iiyama interferes with it in the same way that it does my wireless mouse and keyboard. Maybe this box isn't as tollerant as my current box with regards to noise. I would recommend this box and would say that the quality is almost as good as my internal scan doubler/flicker fixer in my other miggys, maybe it'll be as good with a better scart lead!

[xaccrocheur]

Wow... DPaint on a BIG 21' TFT... I think we found our holy grail. :-o  :-) I want one. Now.

[leirbag28]

@AmiDude

THe pictures you posted look great!  except the game pictures.

it seems to blurrrr 320 x 200

AM I correct?

nevertheless the Workbench images and DM2 screens look crisp as can be.

Can you answer me.........I would need an Amiga RGB port to SCART cable correct?    where can I get one?

Have you tested in PAL and NTSC?  how does it work?  does the screen go blank when it switches?  or does it remain smooth?

Another Question..............what if you were to put a RGB to VGA adaptor on the Amiga and plug it in the VGA in............would it scan double that?  please try it.......my guess is that you would have to put it in Productivity (Multiscan) mode or DblPAL or DblNTSC..but try it............if it works.I will sing!!!! because this would be an easier solution than buying a SCART cable!!!

[AmiDude]

@leirbag28

The game pictures look a little blur, because
I didn't hold the camera stable, I guess.:nervous:
You must keep in mind that taking pictures
of images on monitors doesn't look great at all.
But in real the games look as crisp as can be.
All native Amiga resolutions are displayed just fine!
 :-)

About the RGB-SCART cable: You can buy them on eBay
for about 10-15$.

I did a little PAL to NTSC-switch test in the early
startup control. It seems that the screen's going blank
for about 2-3 seconds. It does that also without the CM345S and with a 15Khz monitor connected to it.
But, why would you switch from PAL to NTSC? Certainly
not frequently...:-?

About the RGB to VGA-adapter: I can't try that for you,
because then I would need a VGA to SCART-cable. I do
have an RGB to VGA-adapter, but no VGA to SCART-cable.
But I guess it should work though...:idea: