ACube and A-EON announce One Vision on future Amiga co-operation

[takemehomegrandma]

@Andre.Siegel

Well, I still have a hard time believing that you would have to manufacture the motherboards in China in volumes of tens of thousands per batch in order to build a PPC motherboard that *doesn't* cost €1,950 EUR (incl the UK VAT) in a Christmas Sale special price, especially so if you're only looking to break even (as has been said about Trevor's ambitions about the X1000). The new motherboard has been said to be a bit cheaper, but not a lot. I don't buy it (in double meaning). I think something is terribly wrong with this picture. Either design decisions, management, or the fees of Varisys for doing the work.

"Trevor said that it cost over US$400,000 to develop the X1000."

"A-EON Technology & Ultra Varisys sign $1.2M agreement for new PowerPC hardware."

This can only lead to the price tags we have seen from them, especially if only a few hundreds of OS4 users are supposed to pay the bill. Maybe Trevor should have asked around some more before settling with Varisys, asked for quotations from more than one design company? That's a management thing. And maybe the design should have been a bit simpler? Did anyone even ask for a "Xorro"/"Xena" in the first place? And after having done the $3,000 X1000 systems with this crazy design from Varisys, why do it all over again for a new computer?

I mean, *this* is totally crazy:

http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-pro

It's a whopping $2,999!!!

But that's a completely unique custom design with...

3.7GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5 processor
12GB 1866MHz DDR3 ECC memory
Dual AMD FirePro D300 with 2GB GDDR5 VRAM each
256GB PCIe-based flash storage

...and it *includes* the Apple brand tax!

Again, something is severely wrong with the "AmigaOne" picture...

[nicholas]

I wonder why Trevor didn't keep the money in the community and ask bPlan or even Acube to design and build the X1000 or the new board either?  I'm sure either company would have loved the business and they certainly know a tad more about Amigas than Varisys.  Probably would have been cheaper too.

[EDanaII]

I mean, *this* is totally crazy:

http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-pro

One of these two I will likely be buying before the other. I'll let you guess which one.

Hint: I'm a tightwad.

[Andre.Siegel]

Well, I still have a hard time believing that you would have to manufacture the motherboards in China in volumes of tens of thousands per batch in order to build a PPC motherboard that *doesn't* cost €1,950 EUR (incl the UK VAT) in a Christmas Sale special price

The cost for the PA6T is said to have floated between 600 USD and 1000 USD. If someone would have told them in advance how volatile the pricing would be, I am certain that A-Eon would have picked a different processor.

"Trevor said that it cost over US$400,000 to develop the X1000."

Trevor himself stated that the engineering costs were about 200.000 USD, so around half of the amount you referenced. Considering the complexity of the mainboard and in comparison to the proposed MPC8610 mainboard to be designed by bplan, this number does not appear to be out of the ordinary at all.

"A-EON Technology & Ultra Varisys sign $1.2M agreement for new PowerPC hardware."

I would like to emphasize that the 1.2M figure refers to manufacturing / production as well.  

This can only lead to the price tags we have seen from them, especially if only a few hundreds of OS4 users are supposed to pay the bill. Maybe Trevor should have asked around some more before settling with Varisys, asked for quotations from more than one design company?

If you take the 100.000 USD quote from bplan and assume you can sell 200 mainboards, each board would have to cost an additional 500 USD just to cover the engineering fees. I do not think the Varisys quote was excessively high, especially since the company is known to be capable and trustworthy, which also has to be considered (potential financial risk vs. potential savings).

And maybe the design should have been a bit simpler? Did anyone even ask for a "Xorro"/"Xena" in the first place? And after having done the $3,000 X1000 systems with this crazy design from Varisys, why do it all over again for a new computer?

I assume the management made a deliberate decision to not directly compete with ACube.

[Iggy]

Actually, if it had been up to Paul Gentle at Varisys, the X1000 would have had a Qorlq processor (like its sucessor will).
The choice of processors seems heavily influenced by Hyperion and the previous annoucements of Ack Systems and Amiga Incorporated.
But we all benefit by the delay in moving to this line as it has matured and now has features that rival (and in some cases, surpass) the PA6T.

This will still not be a cheap board.
Even if we were to move to a completely zero profit, community driven model we would not bring the price of a similar design down significantly.

That is just how it is.
AND...that being said, I personally have always wanted an X1000, I will try to budget to afford its sucessor, and I wish Trevor and Paul all the luck in the world with this venture.

Expensive? Yes, but isn't it cool?

[spirantho]

Expensive? Yes, but isn't it cool?

Finally, someone speaks the way I think.
If you want something out of the ordinary, you have to pay out of the ordinary prices.

[OlafS3]

Actually, if it had been up to Paul Gentle at Varisys, the X1000 would have had a Qorlq processor (like its sucessor will).
The choice of processors seems heavily influenced by Hyperion and the previous annoucements of Ack Systems and Amiga Incorporated.
But we all benefit by the delay in moving to this line as it has matured and now has features that rival (and in some cases, surpass) the PA6T.

This will still not be a cheap board.
Even if we were to move to a completely zero profit, community driven model we would not bring the price of a similar design down significantly.

That is just how it is.
AND...that being said, I personally have always wanted an X1000, I will try to budget to afford its sucessor, and I wish Trevor and Paul all the luck in the world with this venture.

Expensive? Yes, but isn't it cool?

Cool? In what sense? Because of PPC?

[OlafS3]

Finally, someone speaks the way I think.
If you want something out of the ordinary, you have to pay out of the ordinary prices.

I will propably never understand why PPC is so cool...

[spirantho]

I will propably never understand why PPC is so cool...

You're obviously not an assembler programmer!

It's more to do with the whole thing, though. The boards that we have now are all really good quality - certainly my Sam440ep is a lovely little machine, and it's obviously different to your standard PC board. My currently-unused X1000 looks to be similar in that respect (not tried it yet as I can't afford the case, PSU and RAM!). I wouldn't get excited about a bog-standard PC mobo, even if it were running AmigaOS. No idea why, just the way it is!

[OlafS3]

No i only program in high-level languages and am not programming in assembler (and no intention to either).

I respect it that some people think that way even if I personal do not understand it. My last "real" Amiga had a 68030, every other processor is the same to me. You program Assembler on your PPC?

[bloodline]

You're obviously not an assembler programmer!

It's more to do with the whole thing, though. The boards that we have now are all really good quality - certainly my Sam440ep is a lovely little machine, and it's obviously different to your standard PC board. My currently-unused X1000 looks to be similar in that respect (not tried it yet as I can't afford the case, PSU and RAM!). I wouldn't get excited about a bog-standard PC mobo, even if it were running AmigaOS. No idea why, just the way it is!

I'm as assembly guy and I think the PPC is a horrid ISA... A quick look at MIPS and ARM show you how an instruction set is supposed to be done

[itix]

I'm as assembly guy and I think the PPC is a horrid ISA... A quick look at MIPS and ARM show you how an instruction set is supposed to be done

I presume you havent tried TI C64x instruction set... it is easy to understand but difficult to optimize. But who is coding in machine language anymore? C compilers generate better code than an average machine language coder ever could.

[nicholas]

I'm as assembly guy and I think the PPC is a horrid ISA... A quick look at MIPS and ARM show you how an instruction set is supposed to be done

Heresy!

ISA's were perfected when Motorola designed the 68000.

I think it was you Matt that once said that AMD should have "Athlonized" the 68k and not the 386.

I couldn't agree more with that statement.

Now where did I put my pipe and slippers?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

that being said, I personally have always wanted an X1000, I will try to budget to afford its sucessor, and I wish Trevor and Paul all the luck in the world with this venture.

True story! I saw one last night for the first time, it was pretty amazing, if I had a few $ grand blowing a hole in my pocket I'd love to have one!  

[utri007]

To be honest, I know that even if mobo production would cost 30€ / mobo, it would still be quite expensive, after taxes, design costs, profit to resellers, OS4 etc.

I was hoping that after investment to OS4 hardware, Aeon & aCube could see it as a feasible move to sell some low-end economy priced mobos, just to get bigger userbase to OS4

As I said when OS4.2 is ready it could have some sense to do it.

 10 000 mobos with OS4, price of 250€ would make some economic loss. When we compare it to X1000 wich has bring joy to several hundred users, could this bring joy to several thousands with similar change to economic loss. Trevor has already done similar move.

If we thing this in bigger scale, it could be smart move to sell that mobo as a complete computer. 50€ more and it would be a complete computer, wich wouldn't sound that expensive. Lets say AmigaOne X600 could cost 300€ wit OS4.2 that is not expensive. Complete computer could also attract people outside of our community, those who still have some nostalgic feelings to Amiga. Who would bought A500 if it would sold only as a mobo?

But this is only my 5 cents, I'm not investing to Amiga OS development, so all the honor them who do so.

[nicholas]

True story! I saw one last night for the first time, it was pretty amazing, if I had a few $ grand blowing a hole in my pocket I'd love to have one!  

I'd love one just for the nerd factor but I've got too many kids to justify spending that amount on a computer.

OS4.1 on my Pegasos II is enough for me.