The AmigaOne is NOT "just a Teron board"!

What I think of as an Amiga has changed over the last couple years. I used to think it was a combination of special hardware and the AmigaOS. After industry standard components surpassed the Amiga chipset, we started seeing Zorro cards intended to replace ECS and AGA, using SVGA chips found in PCs. As these PC chips got further ahead, I started really wanting them, and started really wanting standard PCI slots in my Amiga box.

The reality now is that we cannot have special hardware like we once did. No one will make custom chips for use in Amigas and nothing else, that's a business plan destined for bankruptcy. If someone did make chips for us, based on our specs, but sold them to others as well, that still isn't special Amiga hardware, as selling it to anyone makes it a standard part same as ATI, NVidia or Creative Labs make.  I realized that I wasn't so attached to the idea of having "different" hardware as PC users have, as they now have much better stuff.

I got to thinking, what makes Amiga really special to me is the user experience. What makes up the user experience? The OS is the biggest thing here. Back in the good old days, the custom chips made some of what the OS did possible, and PC chips couldn't do those things. (color palette, stereo sound, etc) Now PC chips can do these things far better than my AGA machine can. "Custom" hardware is no longer a requirement for my user experience. Standard parts cost a lot less, so I'm perfectly happy with the fact that I can now use them.

Is an AmigaOne truely an "Amiga", other than by name? If it provides the user experience I desire, then yes, in my opinion. Will it run the Amiga software I like? Yes. Is it very close to what some people call a TeronCX? Yes. Do I care? Heck no. It will give me more of the Amiga experience I desire than Amithlon or UAE would (I do have some PPC software that these things don't run), so I choose this in preference to the X86 emulators. If I had gone with an emulation, for some of the things I have Amiga-PPC-native, I'd have to reboot into Windows or something like that, and exit the Amiga user experience for those things. So, for my purposes, to maximise my time avoiding the horribly unpleasant (IMHO) Windows user experience, the AmigaOne is the best choice for me.

What more should I need to be content with this thing?

[samface]

since when did Amiga.inc make motherboards? since when where they a hardware company at all?... didnt know they competed with hardware companys... this is news to me...i thought they said they would be a 'software only' company and thus would want to sell as much software as possible./  

All they ever did was outsource the hardware production. Their product is still a complete platform, not just software.

[Glaucus]

Well, thats a pity, isn't it? I mean that you can call anything "Amiga". I remember a time when the brand "Amiga" stood for exciting technology ...

Well, I think the latest AGP cards like the Radeon 9700 Pro are actually quite exciting!  There is exciting hardware out there and the sooner we can adopt the newer standards the sooner we can use them on our next generation Amigas!

What I think people really miss is the snob factor.  Amiga had custom chips that no one else had so it made us feel supperior.  Those days are gone for ever, we just have to deal with the fact that PC and Mac users will have access to the same hardware as we will.  We just gotta get to the point where we can use AGP v3.0, SerialATA, IEEE1394, USB2.0 etc...

  - Mike

[Tigger]

YttriumOx wrote:
I'm getting sick of this, so I've decided to vent my frustrations and I apologize to anyone in advance if this starts a flame war (as it's quite likely to do I'm afraid). :griping:

One of the main arguments I see from people against the AmigaOne is that it's just a rebadged Teron CX or Teron PX.  This is quite simply not true.

The AmigaOne is based on the Teron design, but has several enhancements and modifications that are NOT part of the original Teron specification (although the Teron may have been enhanced to meet these same specs since then, I don't know... but if anything, that makes the Teron a clone of the AmigaOne!)

I'm sorry, you are at very least misinformed, but more likely since you started this thread, you are trying to misinform the Amiga Community.  The Amiga One board is a Teron board, its the same Teron board shown at Linuxworld, the same board that is available for much cheaper from multiple vendors.     What is eyetech doing???   They are distributing it, possibly with a new boot rom bios, and when/if AOS 4.0 runs on the board, they will send that to you as well.  In the x86/PPC threads, a comment was made that they chose PPC boards because they couldnt support all the bios motherboard combos of x86.  They dont want you to realize they could have just as easily picked a much more powerful (and cheaper) x86 motherboard chose to just support it, and had a larger group buy in to the "Amiga One".   Right now, I can tell you my P4 running UAE outperforms what you will see from the fastest of the Amiga Ones, and my motherboard and processor cost substantially less then $800, in fact the whole computer cost less then that.
    -Tig  

[Glaucus]

Some of what I see now associated with the word Amiga is technology that is not interesting nor exciting nor particularily excellent in my opinion. What we have seen of the AmigaDE is mediocre at best. The AmigaOne represents, in terms of its PC related hardware (old AGP, old USB, etc.), adequate but yesterdays technology. PowerPC is nice, but the arguments for x86 are pretty convincing as well. Name one thing the board has special to warrant calling it Amiga. Why not just call it the Teron-CX.

Oh give me a break, the A500 wasn't all that exciting either but they called it an Amiga and it sold like crazy!  Aside from it's OCS chipset, it had nothing really going for it until 3rd party manufacturers decided to add a bunch of add-ons for it.  I've always seen the current AmigaOne design as just an entry level machine, much like the A500.  It gets the job done with little in terms of bells and whistles.  This is a decent way to enter the market by flooding it with a low cost platform that can more easily be adopted by the masses.  I still see PC motherboards with similar specs targetted as an entry level system, so it's not THAT ancient.  Honestly, I think they should have made the A1 even cheaper, but that's another thread.

I fully expect a more high-end spec AmigaOne to come around eventually that will be targetted more at the high end user.  However, I see no point in doing so until we see how AmigaOS4 fairs.  If the market grows you can bet your last dollar there will be newer and better AmigaOne hardware platforms built.

  - Mike

[samface]

I'm sorry, you are at very least misinformed, but more likely since you started this thread, you are trying to misinform the Amiga Community.

By that sentence, you accuse Eyetech of beeing liars as well. In case you missed it, this information is the official information available from Eyetech's website.

But then, of course we should believe in your words as you are more trustworty than the manufacturers themselves? Get real.

[Glaucus]

since when did Amiga.inc make motherboards? since when where they a hardware company at all?... didnt know they competed with hardware companys... this is news to me...i thought they said they would be a 'software only' company and thus would want to sell as much software as possible./

You just have to be difficult don't ya?  

It's no secret that thendic/bPlan are closely alligned with a software company that is in DIRECT competition with Amiga/Hyperion.  The relationship of Pegasos with MorphOS is much like that of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4.0.  Since bPlan are not interested in licensing OS4 for their hardware this shows where their loyalties really lie.  Noting the above, I think it's clear what Samface was getting at.

 - Mike

[Glaucus]

I'm sorry, you are at very least misinformed, but more likely since you started this thread, you are trying to misinform the Amiga Community. The Amiga One board is a Teron board, its the same Teron board shown at Linuxworld, the same board that is available for much cheaper from multiple vendors.

Although I agree with what you say about the x86 motherboards, CPU & speed issues (although an AMD chip would probably be faster and cheaper ;-) ), I must ask how you are so confident about the above quote.  Just because a MB has the same chipset and feature set does not mean it's the same MB.  If you look at the specs for some of the leatest ASUS, Gigabyte or MSI boards, they all have the same chipsets and features and even their model numbers are similar.  Yet, when it comes to benchmark timings they are all quite different.  Unless you've had all the MBs side by side and performed exhaustive tests to compare their performance and reliability then you really can't say what you are saying above.

  - Mike

[samface]

In the x86/PPC threads, a comment was made that they chose PPC boards because they couldnt support all the bios motherboard combos of x86. They dont want you to realize they could have just as easily picked a much more powerful (and cheaper) x86 motherboard chose to just support it, and had a larger group buy in to the "Amiga One". Right now, I can tell you my P4 running UAE outperforms what you will see from the fastest of the Amiga Ones, and my motherboard and processor cost substantially less then $800, in fact the whole computer cost less then that.

Oh please! You're comparing an oven with a microwave. Sure, the microwave is cheaper and faster, but is it able to cook all the meals the oven can do? No. If you want AmigaOS4, then buy an Amiga computer. It's really as simple as that.

[Tigger]

samface wrote:

I'm sorry, you are at very least misinformed, but more likely since you started this thread, you are trying to misinform the Amiga Community.

By that sentence, you accuse Eyetech of beeing liars as well. In case you missed it, this information is the official information available from Eyetech's website.

But then, of course we should believe in your words as you are more trustworty than the manufacturers themselves? Get real.

Alright Samface lets make this real clear.  
To the best of my knowledge no where on Eyetech site do they say that the new A1 board is not made by Teron.   Eyetech is a distributer for Teron, period.  

Dont believe me, read this if you prefer:

http://www.mai.com/news&events/PressRelease070902_2.html

Gee now thats info from the manufacturer, the same info from Linuxworld, the same info I said, I'll take your apology when you are man enough to give it.
    -Tig
 

All they ever did was outsource the hardware production. Their product is still a complete platform, not just software.

so their like Nvidia then? they oursource production now?....hmmm thats interesting... I didnt know they where engineering anything.... again I find this all news to me... maybe I'm just an ignorant person and you can 'enlighten' me about this engineering department of Amiga.inc that out-sourced production of their special board?

[samface]

I'm amazed how some jump into threads without even reading the initial post. This is also from Eyetechs website (http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/faq.php):

Is the AmigaOneG3-SE the same as the MAI Teron Cx?

No. During the period leading up to the OS4 development agreement being signed we evaluated the Articia S northbridge chip for possible use in a redesigned AmigaOne. We concluded that it was the most cost-effective chip for the design and proceeded to draw up some new specifications for an uprated, more cost-effectively engineered AmigaOne, the AmigaOneG3-SE. Clearly using the Articia S instead of Escena's custom northbridge design meant that both the schematic design and the PCB layout would be entirely new. MAI logic are a chipset manufacturer, not a PPC motherboard manufacturer, but they had commissioned a low volume, high cost evaluation board, the Teron Cx, to help sell their chipsets. The Teron Cx was never designed to, or intended to, go into volume production. We therefore asked them if they could recommend a design company who was familiar with using the Articia S in PPC motherboard design. They recommended the same (Far Eastern) company that designed their Teron Cx evaluation board.

The new Eyetech AmigaOne design obviously shares a lot of commonality with the Teron Cx board, but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most people that they really are different designs.

However if you remain unconvinced you are of course perfectly welcome to purchase the Teron Cx evaluation board. It costs $3900, misses many features of the AmigaOneG3-SE, and won't run OS4.

Also, perhaps I should inform you that there is no company called Teron at all, their name is MAI logics.

The announcement regarding Eyetech as a distributor of their boards is only just that. It has nothing to do with the Teron based but modified AmigaOne design at all.

The new Eyetech AmigaOne design obviously shares a lot of commonality with the Teron Cx board, but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most people that they really are different designs.

my question to you sameface is DID YOU read the TeronCX specs and compare them to what they say is 'differant' ?... because NOTHING is...

It's no secret that thendic/bPlan are closely alligned with a software company that is in DIRECT competition with Amiga/Hyperion

wouldnt that make all the more sense to bring their OS onto it's platform? to 'compete' with it?

4 x PCI slots + 1 x AGP slot on 2 buses
10/100Mbps ethernet
2 x USB connectors + 2 more on headers
2 x UDMA 100 channels (4 devices)
Open firmware-compatible BIOS with OS4.0 extensions & NV memory
PS2 mouse & keyboard connectors
Sound, modem & gameport I/O via the AMR header
Parallel, serial & floppy (PC FDD controller) connectors
Real time clock
2 x SDRAM sockets for up to 2 GB of main memory

A1 specs from eyetech site

lets move onto TeronCX specs from MIA's site

I'm posting a PDF file  from MIA's site.. you show me a differance here... I wanna see what it is.
http://www.mai.com/products/BRV850R2.0.pdf


just to blow a few holes in eyetechs claim their board is differant...

but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most people that they really are different designs  .

TeronCX has Ethernet (same as theirs) AGP 2X (same as theirs) 4 PCI slots(same as theirs) USB (same as theirs) ATA 100 (same as theirs) same ammount of PCI/AGP/etc ...and the SAME layout... when a board is re-engineered even slight changes are typically apperant... there are none...

I bet the only differance is firmware and thats a software change...not hardware...

the fact they would claim on their site that their board has has ethernet integrated(this bieng differant)/PCI slots(differant number) and a differant ATA speeds ...all bieng features they claim will 'to convince most people that they really are different designs' is interesting when MIA's specs on the Teron are identical to the A1.... maybe it's just a corporate 'screw up'? ... in any case I find it interesting how someone can post a topic about how 'their differant boards' whilst not even checking to see if eyetech isnt blowing smoke... I admit I should have caught this earlier but I didnt care to much since what board it is dosent matter...

I still dont think 'who makes it' or 'what board' it is matters it's always gonna be the OS... but posting false info isnt cool now is it

[samface]

my question to you sameface is DID YOU read the TeronCX specs and compare them to what they say is 'differant' ?... because NOTHING is...

Those are not even my words that you quoted, it's from Eyetech's website.

Anyway, the MAI board has been revised since that FAQ was written and I'm not sure wether MAI has simply implemented the Eyetech modifications but nevertheless, Eyetech did those modifications and therefore differ from the *original* Teron CX design. Before you claim otherwise, get proof or stop trolling. We have enough FUD going around anyway.