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Author Topic: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System  (Read 3751 times)

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Offline gertsy

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Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #29 from previous page: July 03, 2013, 01:06:34 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;739579
Especially when it turned out that Novell owned the rights that SCO were claiming to own.....


SCO owned distribution and usage rights alright as a part of their asset purchase agreement. They just didn't own the copyrights. But they thought they did.

@ferrellsl spot on with VMS and NT.
 

Offline psxphill

Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2013, 02:57:41 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;739579
Especially when it turned out that Novell owned the rights that SCO were claiming to own.

SCO did appear to negotiate and pay for those rights & were under the impression they owned them. It seems they got stiffed.
 
Quote from: Madshib;739648
Thanks for setting me straight. Windows is crap all on it's own

Awesome argument, one second it's bad for copying and the next it's bad for not copying. While there are many reasons for hating Microsoft at a corporate level, some of their products are actually good. Windows 8 is much better than any Linux I've ever used.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 03:02:02 PM by psxphill »
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2013, 03:29:17 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;739721
SCO did appear to negotiate and pay for those rights & were under the impression they owned them. It seems they got stiffed.
Thank $_DIETY.  SCO is worse than Microsoft could ever be in terms of its business practices.  To this day I do not understand how it can get away with suing the END USER of software which supposedly violates patents and/or copyrights.
 
Quote from: psxphill;739721
Awesome argument, one second it's bad for copying and the next it's bad for not copying. While there are many reasons for hating Microsoft at a corporate level, some of their products are actually good. Windows 8 is much better than any Linux I've ever used.


Boy!  Dem's fightin' words!  Seriously, though, I suppose I would rank Windows 8 above the latest Ubuntu releases (my upgrade from 10 to 12 was a huge WTF moment.)  I'll be installing the preview release of Windows 8.1 to see how it's improved, but for my own purposes I won't be going past Windows 7 after I finally drop XP x64.  I trialed Windows 8 at several of my clients and they threatened me with bodily injury if I deployed any 8 machines.
 

Offline nicholasTopic starter

Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2013, 04:16:01 PM »
It has been said that WNT== V++ M++ S++

From what I remember NT design was inspired by the VMS design in the same way the BSD design was inspired by UNIX.  Similar but not the same.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2013, 05:15:59 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;739728
It has been said that WNT== V++ M++ S++
There's some play on a product and IBM, IIRC.  Urban legends are fun.

Quote from: nicholas;739728
From what I remember NT design was inspired by the VMS design in the same way the BSD design was inspired by UNIX.  Similar but not the same.


Cutler did things with Windows NT that Digital wouldn't allow him to do with VMS.  As I recall, this would not be the first time in history a company lost an employee or engineer because it wouldn't allow a certain product implementation.  The venerable old Z80 came about in similar fashion as Intel was difficult to push in certain directions.

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/Oral_History/102658073.05.01.acc.pdf
 

Offline nicholasTopic starter

Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2013, 06:40:47 PM »
Quote from: LoadWB;739732
There's some play on a product and IBM, IIRC.  Urban legends are fun.



Cutler did things with Windows NT that Digital wouldn't allow him to do with VMS.  As I recall, this would not be the first time in history a company lost an employee or engineer because it wouldn't allow a certain product implementation.  The venerable old Z80 came about in similar fashion as Intel was difficult to push in certain directions.

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/Oral_History/102658073.05.01.acc.pdf


Indeed, didn't Atari lose Jay Miner because he wanted to make the Amiga and they wouldn't let him?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline ferrellsl

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Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2013, 07:33:09 PM »
@Fats

You obviously didn't read the article from Microsoft Press if you still feel that NT was just an "influenced" product based on the common knowledge of other OS's at that time. And I made no mention of Unix at all in my post.  I was clarifying Pentad's assertion that NT was not based on VMS, which clearly it is based on VMS.....straight from the mouth of Microsoft.

Offline nicholasTopic starter

Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2013, 09:28:27 PM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;739744
@Fats

You obviously didn't read the article from Microsoft Press if you still feel that NT was just an "influenced" product based on the common knowledge of other OS's at that time. And I made no mention of Unix at all in my post.  I was clarifying Pentad's assertion that NT was not based on VMS, which clearly it is based on VMS.....straight from the mouth of Microsoft.


The Kernel design is for sure, but the God awful userland and its accompanying Win32 API isn't.
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Offline ferrellsl

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Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2013, 10:53:37 PM »
@nicholas

You got that right!

Offline Fats

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Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2013, 12:17:16 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;739744
@Fats

You obviously didn't read the article from Microsoft Press if you still feel that NT was just an "influenced" product based on the common knowledge of other OS's at that time. And I made no mention of Unix at all in my post.  I was clarifying Pentad's assertion that NT was not based on VMS, which clearly it is based on VMS.....straight from the mouth of Microsoft.

I did not try to claim NT was not influenced by VMS; if one has been programming a kernel in a previous job you'll likely use techniques and solutions you are familiar with.
I do claim that it was influenced by a lot of OSes and not solely or mainly by VMS as I got the impression some people tried to claim that. What I wanted to say is that you can easily write a similar story of proofing Windows NT is heavily influenced by UNIX.
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Offline psxphill

Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2013, 12:25:08 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;739728
It has been said that WNT== V++ M++ S++
 
From what I remember NT design was inspired by the VMS design in the same way the BSD design was inspired by UNIX. Similar but not the same.

I heard a lot of the structures are very similar and contain very similar fields. Different enough to avoid being sued but functionally very much the same, of course that was a long time ago in the NT3.1 days.
 
Quote from: Fats;740276
I do claim that it was influenced by a lot of OSes and not solely or mainly by VMS as I got the impression some people tried to claim that. What I wanted to say is that you can easily write a similar story of proofing Windows NT is heavily influenced by UNIX.

Well yeah, but UNIX was heavily influenced by operating systems that came before it too.
 
Windows NT was basically VMS made to look like Windows 3.1 & MSDOS. So it had some influence from CP/M. I can't think of anything that went from UNIX straight into Windows NT. MSDOS had pipes, which might have come from UNIX (although in MSDOS the programs were run sequentially as there was no multitasking). MSDOS also had a built in \dev\ directory that could be used with devices (\dev\nul for example could be used instead of nul:
 
I'd love to see a write up of how UNIX heavily influenced Windows NT.
 
Windows NT was originally going to be a version of OS/2, it even supported text mode OS/2 software and the OS/2 file system for many years. So I imagine there is also some of IBM's operating systems as an influence too.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 12:38:14 AM by psxphill »
 


Offline polyp2000

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Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2013, 01:38:35 PM »
Quote from: persia;739658
It it just me or does the ad bot attach the words "the plug" to an eBay listing for a "vibrating butt plug?"


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Offline nicholasTopic starter

Re: AT&T Archives: The UNIX Operating System
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2013, 01:43:27 PM »
Quote from: polyp2000;740857
Go here http://www.viglink.com/opt-out and click "disable viglink" and then you will no more see the adds on amiga.org - or any other sites using it.

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I just added 127.0.0.1 viglink.com to my hosts file.
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