A590 Oddities

[giZmo350]

Hi all! So I'm setting up my A590 Hard Drive for my Rev 3 A500, KS1.2 & WB1.3.3.......  I'm using a Conner 512MB hard drive divided into two partitions.

OK, not relevant as I used a questionable 4GB HDD the first time. I first used a 4GB HDD and the WB2.1 install disk to partition and the A590 install disk to format and came with a ton of validation & disk errors - okay scratch that!

Did some Google-ing and peeps suggest using WB3.1 to partition and format the HDD - so I did that with a 512MB HDD and NO validation or disk errors after installing WB1.3.3 using the A590 installation disk. The A590 install disk just copies WB1.3 to the HDD.

All went well after creating the A590 BOOT disk (needed due to the KS1.2 ROM). However, when the system boots I have two additional icons on the desktop screen mimicking the real partitions named that are named "WB" and "WORK" drives (you can't see them in the pic).

They show up as DH0:DOS and DH1:DOS.

Is there any way to suppress, hide or eliminate these? I also Googled that anomaly and it has something to do with partitioning / formatting with WB3.1 then installing WB1.3.3 to the HDD. I can't figure it out though. Any help appreciated! 

Since I switched from a 4GB HDD to a 512MB HDD (divided into two equal partitions) and had better results, should I just use try using the HDToolBox utility that came with WB1.3.3 or with WB2.1, instead of WB3.1?

I guess I'm probably just resolved to try any and all combinations!   

This A590 is being included for free in my A500 sale so I'd like it to perfect.
https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=74507.0

[paul1981]

Try using the HDToolbox program of release 2 or release 3 of AmigaOS (on the Install disk), have a look at what partitions show up and where abouts on the graph they show up. I've definitely used the 2.0 release of HDToolbox on 1.3 so I know it works, and probably the 3.0/3.1 version works too. Is it presently setup as just a single partition utilising the whole drive?

EDIT: INSTALL DISK doh!

[giZmo350]

Thanks for your reply Pauly! I revised the first post... please take a read all....   
I have a feeling many others have traveled down this road!   
I also think that using a HDD smaller than 4GB will net better results with WB1.3.3.

Paul, I thought I read a post of yours (could be years old) that suggested a primary partition size for WB1.3 - can't find the post now though....  what would you suggest?

[giZmo350]

Okay, so at the moment trying to setup the 512MB HDD with only the A590 Install disk.....  this may take a while!  I partitioned the primary @ 100MB.

Hoping this goes well............

[giZmo350]

Not going as planned..... Using WB1.3.3's HDToolBox utility, I can create a DH0: boot participation, format & name it, no problem. However, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to create a DH1: Partition! 

Never mind.... I did it but not sure how (what an odd piece of code!)
I think.... I clicked in the graph bar empty space, then clicked "New Partition"..... then moved the slider triangle to the end of the drive space....   then clicked save changes.

Now........     "Initializing DH1:  Verifying cyl 539, 1267 to go"   & there's a yellow HDD activity LED that's On Fire!   

[giZmo350]

Bloody Hell! I got a message after a 30 minute initialization that said "NOT a DOS Disk". However, DH0: named "WB" survived.

Gonna save this for another day!   

.....or next up, bust out the Rev6 A500 and whack the drive with a dose of Workbench 2.1!  LOL

OUT!

[giZmo350]

Spent the afternoon setting up the A590 on a rev6a A500 w/3.1 Rom. Used WB2.1 & HDInstallTools to partition and format the HDD. Installed WB1.3.3 with the A590 Setup Disk and everything went perfect!

Plugged the A5090 into the Rev3 A500 and I get "Can't find DH0:"

Another odd observation, after installing WB1.3.3 on the Rev6a A500, all the icons are placed on the left side of the screen as normal. However, after an install on the Rev3 A500, all the icons are placed on the right side of the screen.

Sheeeesh......   any ideas?

[Jope]

Plugged the A5090 into the Rev3 A500 and I get "Can't find DH0:"

Was there a fastfilesystem in the RDB? 2.x onwards has it in ROM, 1.3 doesn't.

Another odd observation, after installing WB1.3.3 on the Rev6a A500, all the icons are placed on the left side of the screen as normal. However, after an install on the Rev3 A500, all the icons are placed on the right side of the screen.

If the icons are not snapshotted, this is normal. Up to 1.3 they are on the right hand side per default, from 2.0 onwards they are on the left side.

[giZmo350]

Was there a fastfilesystem in the RDB? 2.x onwards has it in ROM, 1.3 doesn't.

I suppose not! This would make total sense.

I've read so many posts on installing WB1.3 to a HDD that my head is swimming. No one has ever stated this fact the way you have. I always assumed there was FFS in the RDB. In forum posts, I always read "USE PFS3 or REPLACE the file system with PFS3. No one has ever stated "ADD" a file system because there isn't one there. So, thanks for this Jope!

I tried installing PFS3 to the RDB using the 1.2/1.3 ROM and the A590 Setup disk or HDInstallTools and, even though I can detect the drive (you can tell it's acting funny), whenever I tried to write the RDB back to the A590 it would never stick. As a matter of fact, the modified partition parameters would never stick. Must be that the first time I tried this, and was somewhat successful, FFS was installed to the BOOT disk the A590 Setup disk has you create.

In all my Amiga years, this is the first time I've ever attempted to install anything less than WB2.X using a 2.X ROM to this A590.

So, a couple of questions if I may....

1. Since I was able to get the modified partition parameters to stick using a Rev6a machine with a 3.1ROM, do you think I'll be successful adding PFS3 (or even FFS - where would I get it?) to the RDB and it then work with a 1.2/1.3 ROM? I'm really thinking that I would prefer using a version of FFS though! Where would I snag FFS from while adding a file system to the RDB? Put it on a floppy? Or will I just run into validation/disk errors & those additional odd disk icons again using FFS?

2. Is this version of PFS3 by Toni Wilen suitable?
https://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3aio

3. Are the instructions from this site correct?
http://thecryptmag.com/Online/17/harddriveguide.html

To upgrade to a new file system, complete the Following steps:

 1. Copy the new file system to the L: directory.
 2. Start up HDToolbox and enter Partition Drive screen.
 3. Select the partition you wish to update.
 4. Click on Advanced Options and then on 'Add/Update...' button.
 5. Click on 'Add New File System ...' and a dialog box will appear.
    (you can use Update if updating an existing file system).
 6. Enter path and name of the new file system e.g. 'L:FastFileSystem'.
 7. It will display the DosType (in hex) & the version, revision numbers.
 8. Click on OK until the main menu appears.
 9. To commit the changes click on 'Save Changes to Drive'.
 10. Exit and reboot to use the new file system. If necessary, format the
     new partition ready to be used.

In step 1. above, is that necessary? Can I just grab the new file system from floppy using an external floppy drive or do I have to place the actual file system somewhere on the A590 install afterwards (that seems like a chicken/egg impossibility though)?

I'm on like, day 4 of this project.... I'm glad I'm taking my time!

Thanks so much for your reply Jope! 

[Jope]

Uh, that's a lot of questions ..

HDToolBox will actually add fastfilesystem to a new drive if the L: directory has it. No idea whether HDInstTools did this or not.

PFS3AIO is 1.3 compatible, you can use that.

In HDToolBox, always remember to press return every time after modifying any values in any text boxes. (this goes for many other Amiga string gadgets)

Forget the 1.2 ROM with a HD, you will not get autoboot with the majority of HD controllers. Just use 1.3 or newer.

The filesystem can be loaded from anywhere you like when you install it into the RDB, it doesn't have to be in L. Keep it in the root of our boot disk or whatever.

The instructions below tell you to click ok when you see the version + dostype. Don't just click ok. The default dostype is for FFS. Use 0x50465303 as the dostype instead when installing PFS3AIO. Don't forget to hit return.

After you have installed the new filesystem, you must also change each of your partitions to use it. Select the partition, click "Change..." (the button above add/update...) and then select the correct dostype in that new screen you get. If you had to type it in, you guessed it, hit return!

Always always format quick when formatting hard drives.

[giZmo350]

Fantastic detailed reply Jope!  Super thanks!

Yea, sorry for all the questions however I have a motive for that. I would like the correct way of doing this cached to Google once and for all! 

[giZmo350]

Jumpin Jahosafats! Followed Jopes instructions to the T! Twice! FAILURE! I used the Rev6a A500 thru the whole process. Plug the A590 into the Rev3 A500; NO HD1.

So I thought I would just retool and revert to what I had in the first post!

Mounted the A590 onto the Rev3 A500 and popped in the A590 Setup Disk.

Ran HDTools and repartitioned with default setting. Saved & Rebooted. Ran HDTools again and, for only the second time, HDTools asked to me identify the drive type.

I had two choices; both, Quantum XXX40 & xxx80. The sticker on the drive states that it's a Conner CP3500. A 510MB drive. Which it is. Knowing this, I queried the drive and... it came up as a Conner CP3500. Good! Go with it! Been using that drive type throughout this journey. The Rev6a machine assumes it's a 510MB drive and is used, as that, perfectly.

However, on this last ditch effort, I chose the default Quantum XXX80. The drive was then reported as an 80MB drive. Then I partitioned as one drive. Formatted it, and it was about 100 times faster!

Then installed WB1.3.3 and everything went perfect!

Learned a lot the past days! Thanks again Jope!

So, a question to the masses. Just where does the failure lie between the two machines when detecting the hard drive's geometry?

And, is there a lesson to be learned here?   

[Matt_H]

So, you're up and running but you only have 80MB of your hard drive space? I suppose that's better than nothing, but let's see if we can get you running with the full drive.

I suspect the main issue complicating your setup as you swap the 590 between machines is the Kickstart 1.2 ROM. Forgive me if I missed this in an earlier post, but because 1.2 can't autoboot, the ROMs onboard the 590 need to be disabled via one of the DIP switches on the back of the unit. So you'll need to boot initially from a floppy that contains the 590 driver in SYS:Expansion--like the 590 install disk. Once the hard drive is configured and the system is installed you can use MakeBootDisk from a copy of the install floppy to turn it into a boot disk that enables the 590 and then transfers control of the system to the hard drive.

While you can use HDToolbox from 2.x or 3.x to prep the drive, it might be easier to do so from the version on the 590 install disk because the correct version of FastFileSystem is located in that disk's L directory. The UI is a bit clunkier than the newer versions but it's fundamentally the same, functionally.

I think you've done these steps already, but try running through them again (and maybe this guide will be useful to someone else in the future). If you want to use PFS you'll have to adjust accordingly, but here we go:

1. Assuming you've got the 590 connected to your 1.2 system--with the autoboot DIP switch set to disable the 590's onboard ROMs--boot from a copy of the 590 install disk (it needs to be write-enabled) and run HDToolbox.

2. Click "Change Drive Type."

3. Ignore the list and click "Define New Drive Type."

4. Click "Read Configuration from Drive" and "Continue" and it should pull in the geometry for the drive.

5. Click "OK" then select your drive from the list and click "OK" again, plus any confirmations. This will define the drive's basic RDB structure.

6. You should be back on the main HDToolbox screen. Click "Partition Drive."

7. You should see the partition window with 2 equally sized partitions. If no partitions are visible, click "Default Setup."

8. Click a partition bar to select it. Once selected you can use the orange triangle gadget to resize it. You can also drag the partition bar to move it around within the drive geometry if there's any empty space. If you want more partitions, select some empty space and click "New Partition."

9. Once you have the size and quantity of your partitions set, define their device names. Since you have a Conner drive they'll probably default to CDH0 and CDH1. Presumably you'll want them to actually be DH0 and DH1 (and the scripts on the 590 disk require these names). Make sure DH0 is marked as bootable (it should be, by default). Make sure DH1 isn't marked as bootable.

10. Now click "Advanced Options" and "Add/Update File Systems."

11. I think the new screen that appears will be blank by default. (If there are file system entries there already, delete them first.) Click "Add New File System."

12. Since you booted from the 590 install disk, the default values on the window that appears should be fine. Click "OK" and then "OK" again. You should be back on the main partitioning window.

13. Select one of your partitions and click "Change File System for Partition."

14. Make sure "Fast File System" is selected and automount is set to "Yes." The other values should be fine at their defaults. Click "OK" to go back to the main partitioning window.

15. Repeat steps 13 and 14 for any other partitions.

16. Click "OK" to go back to the main HDToolbox window.

17. Click "Save Changes to Drive" and any associated confirmations. This will commit the RDB to the drive.

18. Reboot (still from the 590 disk).

19. Format the partitions, either from the Shell or Workbench. Note that if you use the FormatHD script from the 590 install disk it will only format DH0:. You'll have to do DH1 by hand.

20. Once the partitions are formatted, if you didn't run FormatHD, run InstallHD. (If you did run FormatHD, it automatically starts InstallHD.)

21. Use your Workbench and Extras floppies to complete the installation.

22. Run MakeBootDisk from the *copy* of the 590 setup disk--it will turn itself into the boot disk that mounts and then transfers control to the hard drive.

I think that will do it, BUT I noticed something while I was putting this together:
There are 3 main 1.3-era Commodore hard drive prep disks floating around the internet--the 590 disk, the 2091 disk v1.27, and the 2091 disk v1.30. I previously set up a (WinUAE) A2000/2091 1.3 system using the 1.30 disk, which contains a newer version of HDToolbox than the one on the 590 disk. Using the HDToolbox from the 590 disk for my tests just now kicked up all sorts of errors. I'm not sure if that's due to the peculiarities of my emulated system, but you may want to try the 2091 disk instead. I think they are 100% compatible, but I'm not certain. If not, boot from the 590 disk, swap in the 2091 disk, drag/copy its HDToolbox to RAM Disk, swap back to the 590 disk, and run the RAM Disk version of HDToolbox instead.

The "version" command is hit-or-miss under 1.3, but you can tell the versions of HDToolbox apart by their window title bars - the version from the 2091 disk v1.30 contains the text "Version 2.0" and the version from the 590 disk does not. The file timestamps--if they are accurate on my copies--put version 2.0 as almost 2 years newer, so there are probably a lot of internal bugfixes.

Finally, the last version of the 2091/590 ROMs was 7.0, but Commodore only released a disk-based driver up to, I think, 6.6. Some folks in the community managed to assemble a disk-based version of 7.0, although I can't remember who or where it can be found. Point being, you may want to track that down to replace the version in SYS:Expansion on the boot floppy. Again, I think it's fully compatible with the 590, but I'm not certain.

[giZmo350]

Hi Matt, thanks much for your reply!
A couple of things I omitted in my last reply.

Following the instructions to replace the file system worked perfect using the Rev6a machine. So I finally learned how to do that.

I also tried swapping back the original Gary chip - no help there.

I also swapped the original Rev6.6 ROMS into the A590 - no help there.

For all the exercises performed yesterday, I used a V1.3 ROM in the Rev3 machine for convenience.

To speed things up, I didn't even need to go thru the process of an alternative file system. I would just format a 10MB partition using the Rev6a machine and check to see if the Rev3 machine would then recognize the partition without getting a "DH0:" not found. It always fails.

Using the A590 Setup Disk, I would "scan" the drive and it would come up with the correct "type" as a Conner CP3500 - 510MB. Then format a 10MB partition using the Rev3 machine and check to see if the machine would then recognize the partition without getting a "DH0:" not found. It's really slow and it always fails.

So, no need to even go thru the rest of the process.

That's when I thought to just give the Quantum "Drive Type" a try using the A590 Setup Disk plugged into the Rev3 machine. Worked perfect(as 80MB). No matter what, using the A590 with the Rev3 machine simply can't recognize the drives geometry when using it as a 510MB "Type".

I don't believe this is a software issue. I think it's a HW issue. But I'm not sure where issue lies. The Rev3 machine or the A590. The only other culprit I can think of is the DMAC(S) chips on the A590. I'm going to open the A590 back up and check the part number(s). They will either be 390563-01 or 390563-02. I'm not familiar with the difference though. I'll report back later.

I also tried searching for a newer A590 Setup Disk but came up empty. 

Thanks again Matt!

[Matt_H]

Hmmm. If you already eliminated Kickstart 1.2 as a possible cause then I agree you're probably looking at a hardware issue. The next question is whether it's a hardware fault (i.e., something broken due to age) or a hardware bug (my understanding is that the rev. 3 500 is pretty buggy).

Just to make sure you're not overlooking the obvious, is the drive known to be 100% good?

DMAC is worth looking into, as you say. Big Book of Amiga Hardware says the 590 typically shipped with DMAC -01, but it can't hurt to try DMAC -02.

To close the book on possible software issues, give the 2091 v1.30 disk a try if you haven't already, along with 7.0 ROMs if you have them (or track down the disk-based version if you don't).