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Offline adolescent

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2005, 04:13:45 AM »
Making judgements on systems that aren't even finalized is foolish.  Of course, making judgements based on specs alone is even more so.  It all comes down to the games.

Even Nintendo agrees with this...  Revolution Less Powerful

Myself, I'll be picking up an XBox360 since it is available soon, and there are games that I want to play on it (Perfect Dark Zero, Project Gotham Racing 3, Madden 06, etc.)  

If/when the PS3 and Rev come out I'll probably pick up those as well, provided there are good games for them.  

For the GCN, it appears that the focus has officially shifted to the Rev, leaving it to an early death.  Rapidly declining sales, lack of games, premiere titles falling off the release list and/or being delayed, etc.  I think everyone could see this happening for a long time.  After all, if your best launch title is Luigi's Mansion, then you have a problem.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2005, 04:20:19 AM »
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MskoDestny wrote:
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lou_dias wrote:
Nintendo retracted their 2-3 times the power statement with a 3-5.

I'd still like to see your source of this information.


Go to ign.com or Nintendo.com and search old new articles from May

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They've also stated that codename Revolution would be released shortly after the PS3 which is currently due March/April of 2006.

Shortly after is somewhat of a relative term and is a far cry to commiting to a release date.


to me shortly means -  shortly, not the following quarter to thereafter.

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As for how can I make that statement about every aspect of the system...let's break it down:

Basically you're making your claim based on specs leaked by supposed developers who also claim that Nintendo hasn't even decided on the final specs yet.

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disc drive: 8cm 1.8GB disc vs. 12cm 6GB disc > 3

I thought the revolution would use standard DVDs? Wouldn't that be either 4.7 or 8.something GBs?


read for yourself: http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=02ea1a40-ac09-4cdf-9548-91e5a4e78746&page=home the 6GB figure was stated by Perry Kaplan in an article around that time and on IGN.com

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memory minimun: 40MB vs minimum of 128MB + 512 internal flash > 5

Counting the flash along with the RAM is a mistake. It's more akin to a small hard drive with a really low seek time than RAM. That said some of the supposed specs leak had some huge amount of RAM in it. Don't know if I believe that though.


they've stated they will be less expensive than the 360 or PS3.  Having more RAM makes that harder to achieve.  Bet on 128 or 256MB.

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gpu: 162.5MHz w/3MB texture cache vs. (estimated atleast as good as the XBOX's since Ninento has a stronger relationship with ATI and longer development time invested) 500MHz w/10MB texture cache > 3

I don't think the longer relationship argument is going to go very far. ATI must have had offered Microsoft a pretty sweet chip (or perhaps a really sweet pricing deal) to lure them away from nVidia (thus making backwards compatability more complicated). Furthermore, it seems it's a safe bet that Microsoft can promise to buy more chips than Nintendo.


Promises mean nothing.  ATI designed the chip but MS owns the rights to it and can have anyone manufacture it.  That's a fact.

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as for my claims on the cpu.  You act like a G5 is expensive these days.

Well it is expensive and Nintendo has this habit of trying to make a profit on every console they sell.


it's a simple law of economics.  Any technology that has been around for a number of years gets cheaper because R&D costs have already been re-couped and manufacturing processes streamlined.

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The cpu has been in MACs for a couple of years now in sufficient numbers.

And just how expensive is the cheapest Mac with a 2.5GHz or higher G5? If they were shoving them in Mac minis, I might agree that it's cheap.


when you buy a PPC Mac, you are not paying for a CPU and getting MAC OS X as a bonus, it's more like the other way around.  You are buying a brand and paying a premium price for that brand in order to maintain an image.

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If anything, I expect Nintendo to move more CPU's then Apple ever did over the course of Revolution's lifetime.

Apple sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.25 million Macintoshes in the last quarter. Hard to say how many of those were G5s, but all of the PowerMacs have two CPUs these days. Given that Nintendo has sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 16 million Gamecubes I don't think they're in different ballparks.


about 20 million GC's have been sold in 5 years.  Again you are paying for a brand with Apple not a cpu.

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Multiple developers have leaked that Nintendo had 2 systems proto-typed as devloper board.  A dual cpu 1.8 GHz machine and a single 2.5 GHz machine.

And that means diddly squat. Microsoft's early dev machines were dual 2.5GHz G5s. That's not what they released in the end.
[/quote]

yes, we all know early 360 devkits were MACs.  So what?  2 magazines have made these statements.  The same magazines that told us what the 360 devkits were.

Information leaks.  You can ignore it or listen and get an idea of what to expect.

Here's the bottome line.  To be easily 100% backwards compatible with the GC, Nintendo's only choice is to go with the G5.  I for one won't complain.

Here's a Revolution FAQ: http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p1.html
I believe it's page 3 that mention the "2-3 times more powerful" statement as being FALSE.
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2005, 04:22:33 AM »
BTW, to the original poster.  I'd be warry of buying a Japanese 360.  First, it will be NTSC not the PAL video mode you need.  Plus, it's probably that region protection will exist limiting you to only Japanese games.
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2005, 10:54:01 AM »
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Go to ign.com or Nintendo.com and search old new articles from May

By telling people to search for the information themselves, are you betting that they won't bother?

Showing sources generally involves links, not to mention more recent news than from May.  :-)

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Any technology that has been around for a number of years gets cheaper because R&D costs have already been re-couped and manufacturing processes streamlined.

What does that have to do with whether Revolution is based on a G5 or not?  Nintendo is paying for a custom CPU design, but a G5 is still more expensive to manufacture than a G4, regardless of yield.

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You are buying a brand and paying a premium price for that brand in order to maintain an image.

Given your religious devotion to Nintendo, don't you find this statement even slightly ironic?
 

Offline harima_kunTopic starter

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2005, 11:15:52 AM »
Hi mate, no worries I am moving to Japan anyways so that is why I am gonna buy a Japanese one but I thought while I am still in the UK might as well get to know it as it is cheaper :D
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Offline Louis Dias

Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2005, 11:46:24 AM »
Quote

Waccoon wrote:
Quote
Go to ign.com or Nintendo.com and search old new articles from May

By telling people to search for the information themselves, are you betting that they won't bother?

Showing sources generally involves links, not to mention more recent news than from May.  :-)


where's the proof of there counter claims to begin with.  Atleast I point them in the CORRECT direction.

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Any technology that has been around for a number of years gets cheaper because R&D costs have already been re-couped and manufacturing processes streamlined.

What does that have to do with whether Revolution is based on a G5 or not?  Nintendo is paying for a custom CPU design, but a G5 is still more expensive to manufacture than a G4, regardless of yield.


Well the G4's been around alot longer than the G5 so that's expected.  Also there is a natural progression to smaller dyes to get more chips out of each wafer.  Are you arguing over common sense and the laws of economics?  What for - using an existing chip design is less expensive than developing a completely new one.  Have you ever heard of a triple-core cpu before the 360?  Double - yes, quad - yes.  Triple - NO!  A new 3.2Ghz triple-core cpu is going to be more expensive than an established design.  Just leaving out a branch predicter isn't going to save them that much money.  They wanted a fast cpu to claim equal power to the PS3.  Nintendo isn't going to top-of-the-line processing power, there systems have always been about efficiency, not raw power.

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You are buying a brand and paying a premium price for that brand in order to maintain an image.

Given your religious devotion to Nintendo, don't you find this statement even slightly ironic?
[/quote]

How so?  Nintendo's GC was the least expensive this gen as 'Revolution' will be next gen.  Apple chooses to charge a premium for their hardware.  They sell enough products as much as any $40 x86 individual motherboard manufacturer and yet you are going to tell me that OS X should be more expensive than Windows when it has less built-in functionality and is based on BSD to begin with?  Oh wait, we are getting back to the laws of economics aren't we.  Apple sells 5 million copies of it's OS a year and Microsoft sells 100 million.  That's why you pay a premium for the Apple OS + hardware bundle...sounds like the A1/OS4 bundle...

As far as Nintendo's image goes - they sell inexpensive but high quality (it don't break) hardware and charge a premium for their HIGH QUALITY SOFTWARE.  Nintendo is primarily a games maker.  Making the consoles just ensures them an untamed outlet for their creativity.  Nintendo isn't trying to be the #1 console.  They are trying to be everyone's second console.  At a launch price of $200-250, they will be.  As long as they can make a profit on hardware, they will create new consoles.  When they can't then they will go the way of Sega.

BTW, the Gamecube may go down it price to $60-80 new by Christmas and I'd still like to stick AROS on it.

ps,
May be I'll start a new thread: "potential G5 PPC Amiga real cheap!"
Let's see, people can complain about no hard drive, then I can say hook one up to one of the USB 2.0 ports...  Then they can say oh, that PPC isn't binary compatible...and dare me to prove them wrong meanwhile PPC compilers have been generating GC homebrew code just fine and will continue to do so as well on Revolution.  Then they'll complain the hardware is out of date yet the last time they bought a PC was 1991...  Then they'll complain that 802.11b/g Wi-Fi is too slow meanwhile no actual real-world internet download speed have exceeded .8Mbit/s partially because upload speeds from whomever you are downloading from is always alot less than download speeds...  Then they'll complain it's not secure when Broadcom has the most secure Wi-Fi with transparent security built-in...  Yadda yadda yadda... :rtfm:

But trolls will be trolls - I guess.  :lol:
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2005, 12:45:44 PM »
Man, people that didn't buy XBOX crack me up. Either they say Microsloth is crooked and run to Sony's teet to suck upon, who also run by crooked politics, and also favors international slave labour, not to mention that they are bad liers.
 The other group say,"I don't want a locked down PC".
 Well here's reality. It's not a PC. You don't have to install windows, you don't have a monitor, you don't have to keep your files sorted, virus',adware, trojans scanned, repair registry, wait for windows to figure out how to open up a text file, etc. Infact the ONLY thing winblows about it is the kernal. So what you get is "yes" a PC based machine, but no resources are wasted on a bloated OS! You just got a black box with 4 controller ports, that happens to boot and play games directly off the DVD, unless you've hacked your stuff into a Gaming Juke Box like I have.
 It don't matter what's under the hood, it's how well it plays that counts. And I can say I've totally enjoyed having the XBOX around, and I can totally say that the PS2 looks like total crap in comparison and has nothing on it hardware wise. NOTHING!
 But it's all in the games anyhow isn't it? Thus I have Gamecube for the inner child, and the XBOX for my adult side. I never got into Sony cause I had a computer when PS1 came out and at that time, PS1 looked like hell in comparison, but since the XBOX was Juke Boxable I got into it, and dsicovered there was a VERY unique library available for it, then Sega, and Ninteno are self explanitory...

...I'm 30. ;)

 So when is a decent Atari coming out anyhow?!?!?!
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline harima_kunTopic starter

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2005, 01:27:55 PM »
Yeah I know what you mean, so many people put down the xbox for the most silly reasons ..... i know i used too as well, but when you get an xbox and play on live, you start to realise how much of a good system it is, for myself i love the sega games on the xbox it really is almost like having a dreamcast 2 and it looks like sega are behind the xbox 360 this time too, so down with microsoft but up with xbox! lol
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Offline MskoDestny

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2005, 02:40:28 PM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
Quote
Counting the flash along with the RAM is a mistake. It's more akin to a small hard drive with a really low seek time than RAM. That said some of the supposed specs leak had some huge amount of RAM in it. Don't know if I believe that though.

they've stated they will be less expensive than the 360 or PS3.  Having more RAM makes that harder to achieve.  Bet on 128 or 256MB.

So you believe the leaks when it comes to the CPU, but not when it comes to the RAM?

Quote

Promises mean nothing.  ATI designed the chip but MS owns the rights to it and can have anyone manufacture it.  That's a fact.

All depends on the deal they struck with ATI and I have seen nothing to indicate that they actually bought the design from ATI. Everything would seem to suggest that ATI still owns the design and Microsoft is just going to buy chips from them. That's the way it works elsewhere, I don't see why it wouldn't work that way here as well.

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when you buy a PPC Mac, you are not paying for a CPU and getting MAC OS X as a bonus, it's more like the other way around.  You are buying a brand and paying a premium price for that brand in order to maintain an image.

Top end PowerMacs are equivalent in price of high end machines of similar spec from other manufacturers. But lets do a little exercise. The Mac Mini is estimated to have a profit margin of around 50% so that means it contains about $250 of parts and it only has a lowly G4. For the most part it has similar parts to what you would find in your rumored Revolution except that most of them are less capable (the only exception being that the Mini has a hard drive and the Revolution has flash). Since the G5 is certainly a good deal more expensive than the G4 and the new GPU from ATI is certainly more expensive than the Radeon 9200 in the Mini, the manufacturing cost starts to put the console right in with Sony and Microsoft which Nintendo has publicly stated they won't do.

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yes, we all know early 360 devkits were MACs.  So what?  2 magazines have made these statements.  The same magazines that told us what the 360 devkits were.

My point is that the 360 devkits and the final hardware weren't incredibly similar so there's little reason to believe that the Nintendo devkits are any more similar to the final hardware.

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Here's the bottome line.  To be easily 100% backwards compatible with the GC, Nintendo's only choice is to go with the G5.

They could go with any number of PowerPC processors from the G4 to one or more of the PPEs found in the X360 and PS3.

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Here's a Revolution FAQ: http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p1.html
I believe it's page 3 that mention the "2-3 times more powerful" statement as being FALSE.
It also says they haven't said how powerful it will be since then which puts a bit of a damper on the 3-5x argument.

In the same FAQ they also publicly stated that the machine will be less powerful than Microsoft's and Sony's offerings.
 

Offline _ThEcRoW

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2005, 03:04:06 PM »
@Waccoon

"Emotion Engine" isn't the name for the mips main processor, it's just the name of one of the custom chips designed for the ps2.
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Offline _ThEcRoW

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2005, 03:07:27 PM »
@Legerdemain

Are you saying that the graphics improvement of ps1 titles isn't working. Well, among others, i played mgs1 with accelerated textures(instead of the blocky ones), and played very well. And for the other guy telling that the faster loading option didn't work, false, it works, the only thing it does is reducing the loading speeds in some games, not all.
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Offline koaftder

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2005, 03:27:46 PM »
Quote

How so? Nintendo's GC was the least expensive this gen as 'Revolution' will be next gen. Apple chooses to charge a premium for their hardware. They sell enough products as much as any $40 x86 individual motherboard manufacturer and yet you are going to tell me that OS X should be more expensive than Windows when it has less built-in functionality and is based on BSD to begin with?


OSX is not based on BSD. OSX is a NeXT system with a BSD compatability layer. To say that OSX has less built in functionality than a windows install indicates that you dont know much about OSX.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2005, 03:57:35 PM »
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MskoDestny wrote:
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lou_dias wrote:
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Counting the flash along with the RAM is a mistake. It's more akin to a small hard drive with a really low seek time than RAM. That said some of the supposed specs leak had some huge amount of RAM in it. Don't know if I believe that though.

they've stated they will be less expensive than the 360 or PS3.  Having more RAM makes that harder to achieve.  Bet on 128 or 256MB.

So you believe the leaks when it comes to the CPU, but not when it comes to the RAM?


The leaks said 128 and 256, you are the one who alluded to an outrageous amount of RAM based on something you think you heard.

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Promises mean nothing.  ATI designed the chip but MS owns the rights to it and can have anyone manufacture it.  That's a fact.

All depends on the deal they struck with ATI and I have seen nothing to indicate that they actually bought the design from ATI. Everything would seem to suggest that ATI still owns the design and Microsoft is just going to buy chips from them. That's the way it works elsewhere, I don't see why it wouldn't work that way here as well.


This is a matter of public record.  MS owns the designs and can have anyone manufacture the chips.  That's the difference between the XBOX and 360, now MS can find cheaper manufacturers...
...now they can run into the same quality issues Sony has had. :lol:

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when you buy a PPC Mac, you are not paying for a CPU and getting MAC OS X as a bonus, it's more like the other way around.  You are buying a brand and paying a premium price for that brand in order to maintain an image.

Top end PowerMacs are equivalent in price of high end machines of similar spec from other manufacturers. But lets do a little exercise. The Mac Mini is estimated to have a profit margin of around 50% so that means it contains about $250 of parts and it only has a lowly G4. For the most part it has similar parts to what you would find in your rumored Revolution except that most of them are less capable (the only exception being that the Mini has a hard drive and the Revolution has flash). Since the G5 is certainly a good deal more expensive than the G4 and the new GPU from ATI is certainly more expensive than the Radeon 9200 in the Mini, the manufacturing cost starts to put the console right in with Sony and Microsoft which Nintendo has publicly stated they won't do.


You are ignoring the fact that a Radeon 9200 is a card.  A card has to have supporting hardware to conform to AGP/PCIe standards.  Also, any card you buy comes with driver software and packaging.  Also there is bundled software.  You pay for all that whether you realize it or not.  Your cost comparisons are invalid.

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yes, we all know early 360 devkits were MACs.  So what?  2 magazines have made these statements.  The same magazines that told us what the 360 devkits were.

My point is that the 360 devkits and the final hardware weren't incredibly similar so there's little reason to believe that the Nintendo devkits are any more similar to the final hardware.
[/quote]

That was the path Microsoft took because their total development time for the 360 was 2 1/2 years.  They needed PPC hardware and compilers to test on and the Mac was a quick way to do that.  That's their issue not anybody else's.

Nintendo, on the otherhand, has been doing R&D on Revolution since the GC was released (Nov 2001).  Their development process is different as is Sony's.  Nintendo prototype hardware leaks have only occurred within the last 6-8 months.

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Here's the bottome line.  To be easily 100% backwards compatible with the GC, Nintendo's only choice is to go with the G5.

They could go with any number of PowerPC processors from the G4 to one or more of the PPEs found in the X360 and PS3.


They could but then they would have so-called similar power levels to those systems.  The GC's G3 (GX) 'Gekko' was an enhanced G3 FX that had a high fsb and 37 additional SIMD instructions.  Expect similar enhancements to Nintendo's G5 after all it needs to do everything the 'Gekko' did.  Finally, the G4 is a MOTOROLA chip.  Nintendo has a contract with IBM, not MOTOROLA so read my typing: YOU WILL NOT SEE A G4 IN A NINTENDO PRODUCT.

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Here's a Revolution FAQ: http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p1.html
I believe it's page 3 that mention the "2-3 times more powerful" statement as being FALSE.
It also says they haven't said how powerful it will be since then which puts a bit of a damper on the 3-5x argument.

In the same FAQ they also publicly stated that the machine will be less powerful than Microsoft's and Sony's offerings.


Your point?

All I ever said or alluded to is that you will not see 100% processing power out of a PS3 or 360 in the first wave/generation of titles that are released because a fundamental change in programming and compilers is required to do so.   What I did say is based on that developers have said that early 360 titles are only going to take advantage of about twice the power of the current XBOX.
If you read editorials reviewing the TGS in September, you could see proof of this as 360 games look beautiful in their level of detail but the animation is choppy and apparent A.I. is weak...and that can be due to a lack of cpu processing power.
Also, since, (this is my opinion now) I expect Nintendo to use a full G5 + enhancements, that Nintendo titles will be able to run at maxiumum system efficency and produce quality software from the beginning.  Unforuntately, Nintendo hasn't committed to HD visuals even though it will still support 720x480 progressive scan (which is not considered 'hi-def').
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2005, 04:02:18 PM »
oh...and what is NeXT based on?  and by functionality, I meant to the apparent user, MS provides a browser, a firewall...etc...  Apple provides an OS and QuickTime.  I don't care that one kernal is superior to another.  Either way is OS X was based on some pre-existing kernal then the R&D to gui it a MAC-gui couldn't have been that high.  And that is where most of the R&D went.
 

Offline adolescent

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Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2005, 04:21:24 PM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
BTW, the Gamecube may go down it price to $60-80 new by Christmas and I'd still like to stick AROS on it.


Possible, but with no good titles coming out, who will buy one?  The Mario Party 7 bundle shows that Nintendo is trying to clear excess inventory.  

Quote

ps,
May be I'll start a new thread: "potential G5 PPC Amiga real cheap!"
Let's see, people can complain about no hard drive, then I can say hook one up to one of the USB 2.0 ports...  Then they can say oh, that PPC isn't binary compatible...and dare me to prove them wrong meanwhile PPC compilers have been generating GC homebrew code just fine and will continue to do so as well on Revolution.  Then they'll complain the hardware is out of date yet the last time they bought a PC was 1991...  Then they'll complain that 802.11b/g Wi-Fi is too slow meanwhile no actual real-world internet download speed have exceeded .8Mbit/s partially because upload speeds from whomever you are downloading from is always alot less than download speeds...  Then they'll complain it's not secure when Broadcom has the most secure Wi-Fi with transparent security built-in...  Yadda yadda yadda... :rtfm:


I'd wait until the specs are at least finalized/known.  Right now your speculation isn't based on any facts or real information, just rumors.
 
".8Mbit/s"  :crazy: :crazy:

Quote
But trolls will be trolls - I guess.  :lol:
 

Yes, since you trolled this post and made it into another Nintendo fanboy rant...
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: XBox 360 not quite Amiga I know
« Reply #44 from previous page: October 14, 2005, 05:29:00 PM »
Quote
Possible, but with no good titles coming out, who will buy one? The Mario Party 7 bundle shows that Nintendo is trying to clear excess inventory.


I just bought a Super Smash Bros Bundle to install my qoob chip on.

I'm not a Pokemon fan but since XD is a true RPG, I may check it out.  Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (RPG) is out on Monday.  I will be picking that up.  Spartan:Total Warrior and other multi-platform games.  Baten Kaitos 2 (RPG) might be out in time...Then there's the anime fighters like Zatch Bell; One Piece is out already...

They are releasing 2 bundles, a Pokemon XD bundle as well with an extra controller.  MP7 comes with the microphone.  The Bundles are still at $99 as a consumer I don't care as long as the price comes down.  Means nothing to me, I already own 2.  Every time they lower their price, sales go up.  PS2 is expected to price drop to $99, I guess Sony is trying to clear excess inventory too - huh?

Microsoft is excepted to NOT lower the price of the XBOX.  Now is it because they've stopped production and are already at a huge loss and are releasing the 360 anyway at a smaller loss, or is it because XBOX's are flying off the shelves?

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May be I'll start a new thread: "potential G5 PPC Amiga real cheap!"
Let's see, people can complain about no hard drive, then I can say hook one up to one of the USB 2.0 ports...  Then they can say oh, that PPC isn't binary compatible...and dare me to prove them wrong meanwhile PPC compilers have been generating GC homebrew code just fine and will continue to do so as well on Revolution.  Then they'll complain the hardware is out of date yet the last time they bought a PC was 1991...  Then they'll complain that 802.11b/g Wi-Fi is too slow meanwhile no actual real-world internet download speed have exceeded .8Mbit/s partially because upload speeds from whomever you are downloading from is always alot less than download speeds...  Then they'll complain it's not secure when Broadcom has the most secure Wi-Fi with transparent security built-in...  Yadda yadda yadda... :rtfm:


I'd wait until the specs are at least finalized/known.  Right now your speculation isn't based on any facts or real information, just rumors.
 
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".8Mbit/s"  :crazy: :crazy:


show me a site where I can download a file from faster than 800k/s - even that figure was generous.

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But trolls will be trolls - I guess.  :lol:
 

Yes, since you trolled this post and made it into another Nintendo fanboy rant...


I'm glad you can appreciate a pupil following in your well-travelled footsteps, you sir are now trolling an accused  troll.

Don't troll my 'so called' trolling fanboy rants and then maybe the trolling will end.  But alas, you can take the poster out of the thread but you can't take the troll out of the poster...