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Offline darksun9210Topic starter

A3640 memory/performance issues
« on: January 06, 2020, 10:47:18 AM »
hey all, not sure if i'm doing something wrong here, or if i've got a "known bad" config, or if it's just a "thing" but my A3640 card in my A4k....well in short, it sucks! i think its a rev3.1 card.

i've tested it in my A3k and the performance is about same to within a few seconds between the A3k and A4k in test renders at 4hrs 53mins, so i'm pretty sure it's not the machine.
i mean, obviously its a step up from the 030. but still.

for example. An A1200 fitted with a blizzard040@25 is nearly an hour and a half faster at 3hours 30mins, than my A4k with the A3640.
i think it's something ram related, as i was able to bring the render time for the A4k+A3640 combo down to sub 5 hours when i found some more sims to take the mainboard ram from 8 to 16meg - previously it was over 6 hours. which is a bit of a worry when a blizzard030@50 equipped A1200 will so the same job in 5hours 10mins.

Another hint is that sysspeed and bustest still tells me that my fastram access speed is in the low single digits. yes. in some cases it'd be quicker to write out to disk than ram.  :-\

however, all the cpu bench programs just confirm that everything is performing as expected mips and mflops wise. which i suppose they would if their test code fits in the cpu cache...

anyway, config as follows if anyone can see anything obvious:-
A4000 desktop with 3.1roms, 32gig CF card and a cdrom on the IDE
A3640 rev3.1 (with heatsink and fan)
2x 8meg sims on the mainboard, + 2meg chip
Mediator 4000Di
Bigram 256meg Zorro3 ram
X-Surf100 in Zorro3 mode
Radeon 9250 128meg PCI (set up as 64meg graphics ram and 64meg ram/PCI DMA space)
some generic 100megabit PCI NIC

hope someone can spot something or have a suggestion of what to do! otherwise i'm on the hunt for a cpu card with it's own memory i guess?
cheers all!  :)

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.
 

Offline kolla

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2020, 11:47:14 AM »
otherwise i'm on the hunt for a cpu card with its own memory i guess?

Correct.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline darksun9210Topic starter

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2020, 01:49:34 PM »
So, at the risk of poking the potentially large elephant in the room, i take it the A3660's don't suffer this ram access issue?

if anyone's got one of these, i'd be interested in seeing your sysspeed or bustest ram results...

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2020, 01:50:39 PM »
Of course it has the very same issues, as it is the same design but with 060 CPU.
 

Offline darksun9210Topic starter

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2020, 02:52:11 PM »
ah. bother. i did have hopeful imaginings of reprogrammed Gals or Pals or whatnot.
ok, so that's totally off the table then.

ok so lets see if an A3/4k varient of a TerribleFire card materialises later this year (high hopes) ;D

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2020, 02:56:58 PM »
Team Apollo's vcontrol tool already has an id for Vampire3000/4000, so.....
 

Offline amiga1260

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Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 04:00:01 PM »
I  have a 3640 with the Speedgeek Pals and Gals which fixes the slow memory access. The memory access is as fast as a 3630 card.
 

Offline darksun9210Topic starter

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 04:54:59 PM »
ahaaa yes. the Vampire for the 3000/4000. well, my name is down for one of the A1200 versions.
i think there was an idea that they were going to use that version as the base, and and then an adaptor for the cpu slot of the CD32 and A3k/4k machines.
but then i was thinking, if it was possible to jam an A1200 card into a CD32, wouldn't someone have done it already? especially as i saw a DCE sx32pro go for over 2grand on ebay recently if i recall?

i think the TF cards are on the money too. keep it simple, keep it affordable. hopefully the TF360/TF1260 version will grow a big box CPU slot adaptor. :)

oh cool, i've been reading up on the speedgeek mods this afternoon - i didn't even know they existed! i think the 64meg hack is beyond me. but what do i need for the 3640 gal/pal programming? is this something i can do like a re-flash with an eprom burner or something similar?



A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.
 

Offline 10MARC

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2020, 06:31:56 PM »
I can confirm the the A3640 is a mediocre card at best. RAM access is fairly slow. When I added a 68060 to mine (with the adapter from TBTORRO) it certainly helped, but was not even in the same league as my Warp Engine card.
 

Offline amiga1260

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Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 04:16:49 AM »
you could ask Cosmos to help you to ged the Speedgeek mod:

https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=68796.0
 

Offline darksun9210Topic starter

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 08:47:39 AM »
nice one, cheers guys, i'll see if i can reach out to Cosmos re the ram access timing mod. i am curious to see what difference it can make, for something that could have maybe been in there to begin with?

also thanks for the info on the 060 upgrade, i wasn't sure if it was a worthwhile deal given the ability of the card/ram to support the chip itself - but i'll keep an eye out if anyone starts making adaptors again.

and that 64meg ram mod. i've seen reports of some people loosing access to Z3 cards. now there was some indication that it may have been down to a particular mainboard revision... or as with most things amiga, pure luck of the draw! so i think i'll leave that for the time being!

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.
 

Offline trixster

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2020, 05:02:30 PM »
I had the state machine ram timing mod on my old a3640 and it improved ram access speed around 10-20%... so not very much at all.

My 4000 has the 64mb mod and it has caused not issues with zorro cards or mediator pci cards.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]A1200 + 80Mhz B1260 + Indi AGA2 + Ide-fix Express | A500 | A3000 + 50Mhz A3660 + CV64 + Deneb + 486SLC + ZorRam
A4000/040 + 66Mhz  Cyberstorm Mk2 + Indi AGA + Voodoo 3 + Sonnet G3 + Deneb + Prisma | SNES | C64 | CPC6128 | MD | 3DO
Acorn A3020 | A3000 | A420/1 | Atom | Master Turbo | BBC B | Atari Falcon + 100Mhz CT60e | PS1 | PS2 | Saturn | Atari Jaguar
 

Offline darksun9210Topic starter

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2020, 02:03:27 PM »
Ah-hah. ok that sorta ties in with what i've read. reducing the wait from 8 ticks to 6, in line with the A3630. but the A3640 doesn't support burst mode ram access apparently. whatever that is.

so while the 64meg upgrade is tempting, and the A3640 IS tweek-able, i think i'm going to leave my machine and cpu card as vanilla, as it's a lot of faff for not a lot of return. We're in a good time for new amiga bits appearing it seems. Just re-cap both, and wait for something more juicy to appear for the CPU slot later this year.

[edit] typo's
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 02:04:09 PM by darksun9210 »

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2020, 03:45:59 PM »
Yes, normally one would suggest you hunt a cyberstorm 2 or 3, but then you need a spare kid(ney) to buy it. :P
 

Offline darksun9210Topic starter

Re: A3640 memory/performance issues
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2020, 04:36:28 PM »
yeah we do seem to be in a bit of a sellers market for the last year or three! :-\

looks like i'm waiting for the TF/icomp/apollo pot of gold at the end of the rainbow  ;D
but i'll keep my ear to the ground in the mean time

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.