Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.  (Read 4786 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike-

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 438
    • Show only replies by mike-
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #44 from previous page: August 24, 2008, 04:23:05 PM »
I think replacing all my best option, as i have stability issues, gfx corruption and floppy corruption, i havent tested sound on the a4k yet believe or not, and it's an EC board but with 5 simm slots, perhaps i would be better off getting a non ec board for those 80 euros insted ( anyone? hint hint, wink wink, blink blink, wave )
C= Amiga Addict & Dendrophiliac
,,,
(Oo)
⎛☮ໄ
ﮑὠՀ
 

Offline Castellen

Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2008, 08:24:32 PM »
And a few replies:

@PulsatingQuasar
General purpose simply means they're not anything special, so they're not high temperature, low ESR, "high reliability", or close tolerance.
It's still not a good idea to use tantalum capacitors in situations where you have large inrush currents for the reasons I described earlier.
They might work fine for years, but there's also every chance a capacitor might explode next time you power the computer on.  You can't predict when they might fail.


@mike-
Paying that much for a few simple capacitors would be insane.  Just use SMD electrolytics which are in the order of 0.5Euro each or less, they'll do the job perfectly well.  Buy high temperature ones if you really want to spend a little extra.  Don't waste your hard earned cash, or at least give it to me :-P


@rockape
If you haven't seen it already, here's some instructions on how to approach fixing that kind of thing.


@A4000_Mad
Thanks, glad to hear you're finding them useful!  Hmmm, beer, had a bit too much of that last night....

If you think of any other guide subjects you'd like to see, I'm always open for suggestions.


@orange
The 'C' in the part code is probably either a temperature or tolerance; e.g. the capacitance will be within 20% of the rated value.  The component datasheet will give you the details.

And SMD or radial/leaded capacitors are basically the same thing internally.  Only the package is physically different.

It's probably not necessary to replace all of the capacitors.  In all of the countless A4000, A1200, etc, I've worked on, mainly the 22µF and 4.7µF capacitors seem to give trouble.  The electrolyte solution in the other values seem stable enough.  That's not to say they won't eventually fail over time, so there's nothing wrong with replacing them if you feel the need to.


@people trying to buy capacitors
I stock replacement SMD electrolytics which I can supply as required.  Roughly 0.5Euro each depending on the exchange rate, + about 6 Euro for freight ex New Zealand.  Email me for more detail.
Probably a bit cheaper locally if you can find them.  Note also that some suppliers like Farnell have a minimum order cost, about $20 here in NZ.
 

Offline davideo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 415
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by davideo
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2008, 10:35:01 PM »
@Castellen

When I got my caps from Farnell - they only sold them in packs of so many. The quantity depended on the cost.

i.e. the 22µF came in either 10 or 5 in a pack - sorry I can't remember the exact amount. But the cost was reasonable.

Dave G  8-)
 

Offline amigaksi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Posts: 827
    • Show only replies by amigaksi
    • http://www.krishnasoft.com
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2008, 11:09:41 PM »
>by PulsatingQuasar on 2008/8/23 12:12:05

>You don't need the schematics.

>Just take the motherboard out of the case and the 19 culprits have writing on it.

>They are:
>1 x 100 uF/6,3V
>10 x 47 uF/16V
>5 x 22 uF/16V
>1 x 10 uF/35V
>2 x 4,7 uF/25V or 35V

>Commodore used different versions for the last one. It doesn't really matter though.
>Replace them by tantalums so they can't leak again. >Tantalums are better for computer parts anyway.

>The A3640 uses 5 x 22 uF/16V by the way.

It would be nice if you could list which ones of the above when dead can be just pulled out and still have system function for those not technically inclined to solder or for a temporary quick solution.  I remember pulling out one bad capacitor on an A500 motherboard near the video output and system is still working fine for many years.
--------
Use PC peripherals with your amiga: http://www.mpdos.com
 

Offline amigaksi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Posts: 827
    • Show only replies by amigaksi
    • http://www.krishnasoft.com
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2008, 11:26:47 PM »
>by HammerD on 2008/8/23 23:39:43

>I have 4 classic amigas, two A4000, two A4000T. None of the machines show any sign of leaking caps.

>What is the expected lifetime of these parts and does it count if the machine is turned off? Do they still dry out, leak, and age if the machine is stored in a cool, dry place?

Everything material ages, but it seems useage does play an added role in faster deaths as some machines seem to get bad capacitors much earlier than others with same capacitors.  My several A1000s have never failed (about 25 years old).  That useage stat was one of the complaints I have about OSes booting off hard drives-- since the boot/FAT area gets accessed a lot more, it would be better to have a redundant system area somewhere else on the hard drive and BIOS/OS should boot from that if boot/FAT area of HD fails.
--------
Use PC peripherals with your amiga: http://www.mpdos.com
 

Offline orange

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 2794
    • Show only replies by orange
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #49 on: August 25, 2008, 02:51:02 PM »
yes, but too little usage can be problem too, so I heard.
that goes for capacitors but also hard disks (they need to be started few times a year)
Better sorry than worry.
 

Offline amigaksi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Posts: 827
    • Show only replies by amigaksi
    • http://www.krishnasoft.com
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2008, 08:20:04 PM »
>by orange on 2008/8/25 9:51:02

>yes, but too little usage can be problem too, so I heard.
>that goes for capacitors but also hard disks (they need to be started few times a year)

I guess the conditions of storage come into play there.  I did not have any problems starting up any of my Amigas/Ataris after storage of 20+ years.  But I did have one guy with a brand new Toshiba laptop have a hard drive failure because he left it in his car in freezing cold weather.

Note that little usage being a problem with living bodies is a different scenario since they regenerate used up/dead cells which modern machinery does not do.  So exercise helps especially when one is youthful and regeneration is in optimal form.  Until you get old and regeneration cannot keep up with deterioration of the body sometimes made worse by doctors' surgery/medication.


--------
Use PC peripherals with your amiga: http://www.mpdos.com
 

Offline taunusand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2007
  • Posts: 512
  • Country: dk
  • Gender: Male
    • Show only replies by taunusand
    • www.amiga.dk
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2008, 08:30:20 PM »
I have ordered mine today, through my work.
From Aswo
A1200, Blizzard 030, 2+32MB ram, 4GB CF, pcmcia netcard, Kickstart 3,1
A600, 2MB chip ram+4Mb pcmcia S-RAM, Kickstart 3,1
CD32 - Just for fun  :-D
 

Offline mikrucio

  • Party Mix \'87
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2004
  • Posts: 375
    • Show only replies by mikrucio
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2008, 02:18:28 AM »
This goes for electronics in general.
Like ECU's for cars. replace the older ones (90's) and you will get better fuel economy.

and so fourth. everything benefits new caps.
 

Offline Roger_S

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 70
    • Show only replies by Roger_S
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2008, 04:58:31 PM »
I ordered normal SMD caps (2x), the same as or on the MB right now. Costs 18 euro's including 6 euro shippingcosts from Conrad, well know in the netherlands and germany.

I will see where it will get me on my dead mainboard. If it works I will replace the still working caps on my other MB.

I will also change the ones on the a3640 as well.

Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230IV 64Mb RAM, SCSI DVD player, 72Gb Wide Ultra HDD, 4GB CF ide HDD Amiga OS3.9.
 

Offline Ronmor

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Sep 2004
  • Posts: 83
    • Show only replies by Ronmor
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2008, 08:32:28 PM »
Would it help the amiga community if a vendor or a amiga store put together a package with all capacitors to fix the motherboard or CPU card?
 

Offline Roger_S

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Dec 2007
  • Posts: 70
    • Show only replies by Roger_S
Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2008, 10:28:59 AM »
I count only 18 btw. Not 19.

quote]
PulsatingQuasar wrote:
Just take the motherboard out of the case and the 19 culprits have writing on it.
[/quote]

error... nevermind, there are 19.
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 1230IV 64Mb RAM, SCSI DVD player, 72Gb Wide Ultra HDD, 4GB CF ide HDD Amiga OS3.9.
 

Offline darksun9210

Re: Warning: Your Amiga 4000 is broken in at least some way. Wakeup call.
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2008, 11:14:36 AM »
it would be wicked if an amiga store offered "recapping". I'd send all mine in for a service...  :-)

otherwise, i'll have to get an old PC mobo to level up my soldering skill :-D

A500 Vampire2/minimegachip/lazarus/indyECS
A600 Vampire2/604n/subway/IndyECS
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A1200 PiStorm32+Pi4/subway/IndyAGA
A3k C=040/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Zoram256/acard scsi-ide-CF/IndyECS,
A4k CSMk3-060/CV64-3D/Xsurf100+RRoadUSB/Bigram256/IndyAGA, mediator+pci cards
CD32 TF360/IndyAGA
Plus an SGI O2 & consoles.