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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: NovaCoder on February 01, 2013, 11:18:45 AM

Title: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 01, 2013, 11:18:45 AM
Anyone ever seen Quake 2 run on a 68k in AGA mode before?

AmiQuake 2 AGA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGn6cpxm70)

Thought not....
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Faerytale on February 01, 2013, 12:10:30 PM
AWESOME!! Really cool!! I wish i had a 060 :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Cosmos on February 01, 2013, 01:56:07 PM
Fantastic !
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: XDelusion on February 01, 2013, 02:26:58 PM
:)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: yssing on February 04, 2013, 06:08:49 PM
I WANT! :)
That is very very cool
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 04, 2013, 11:07:37 PM
Quote from: yssing;725327
I WANT! :)
That is very very cool


thanks, glad you like it :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on February 04, 2013, 11:51:26 PM
Cool stuff.

I got Quake3 running on my A1200, but alas not on AGA ;)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Iggy on February 05, 2013, 02:44:34 AM
Quote from: Karlos;725374
Cool stuff.

I got Quake3 running on my A1200, but alas not on AGA ;)

No AGA here, so alas.:cry:

How'd you get Quake3 running on your machine, Karlos?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ChaosLord on February 05, 2013, 03:13:40 AM
Quote from: Iggy;725382

How'd you get Quake3 running on your machine, Karlos?


He cheated and used a PC gfx card :D
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ChaosLord on February 05, 2013, 03:21:45 AM
I am curious to know how your AmiQuake2 AGA compares  with AmiQuake2 RTG?

How does the frame rate compare?
Colors?
Resolution?

Its all very interesting!

I am also interested in what percent of time AmiQuake2 spends doing C2P?

And how much faster framerate could be on Replay+060 Daughtercard.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 05, 2013, 03:32:15 AM
Quote from: ChaosLord;725384
I am curious to know how your AmiQuake2 AGA compares  with AmiQuake2 RTG?

How does the frame rate compare?
Colors?
Resolution?

Its all very interesting!

I am also interested in what percent of time AmiQuake2 spends doing C2P?

And how much faster framerate could be on Replay+060 Daughtercard.

Hiya,

I think it will be faster than the old RTG version @ the target resolution of 320x240 in 8bit color, my port is based on the awesome Yamagi Quake 2 Port (http://www.yamagi.org/quake2/).  

With my port of Quake I've discovered that RTG is not really much quicker than AGA, it seems that the C2P/AGA is only slowing it down by about 3% at 320x200 vs RTG direct fame buffer writes.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 05, 2013, 03:35:00 AM
If you guys liked that, then you'll love this -> BETA 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVuJjDIcBVI)

:)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ChaosLord on February 05, 2013, 03:54:22 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725385

With my port of Quake I've discovered that RTG is not really much quicker than AGA, it seems that the C2P/AGA is only slowing it down by about 3% at 320x200 vs RTG direct fame buffer writes.


In my gamecoding, which is 100% 2D, RTG is actually slower than AGA.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: XDelusion on February 05, 2013, 04:06:53 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725386
If you guys liked that, then you'll love this -> BETA 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVuJjDIcBVI)

:)


Alright, now that is just cool! How badly does it slow down when you get into action at this point?

It's interesting seeing it under a 256 color palette. I'm really starting to think that PrBOOM could still happen some day.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 05, 2013, 04:32:12 AM
Yeah don't give up on PrBOOM, my BOOM port is now at 'end-of-life' and it would be nice to have a more advanced port on my 1200 one of these days ;)

What happened to your Apollo 1260 btw, ever get it to run BOOM properly?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Hattig on February 05, 2013, 09:40:52 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725385
With my port of Quake I've discovered that RTG is not really much quicker than AGA, it seems that the C2P/AGA is only slowing it down by about 3% at 320x200 vs RTG direct fame buffer writes.


Interesting - would you say that was a limitation of the A1200 RTG cards that are available rather than AGA being surprisingly capable?

It will be interesting to see this on the FPGA Arcade, as that's got a lot more chip memory bandwidth looking at the results on the other thread.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Crumb on February 05, 2013, 10:24:32 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725385
With my port of Quake I've discovered that RTG is not really much quicker than AGA, it seems that the C2P/AGA is only slowing it down by about 3% at 320x200 vs RTG direct fame buffer writes.


With 32bit miggies (AGA or Amiga3000) you can write to chipmem up to 7MB/s while ZorroII only allows half of that so in some cases AGA could be even faster. Peter McGavin already stated it in ADoom documentation and I found it interesting, he only recommended ZorroIII or faster bus.

In quake most of the bottleneck comes from the cpu.

IIRC Doom doesn't write to the screen sequentially but in columns so pixels can't be grouped easily when writting to chipram. Quake probably does the same so writting to gfx ram a row of 4 contiguous pixels requires may require redesigning the rasterizer, that could speed up writes notably. Perhaps rendering in 8x8, 16x16 or 32x32 groups speeds up rendering

I think that the engine could be optimized moving to fixed point some parts. AHI usually also slows down everything so perhaps Hyperion's quake2 sources with its paula driver comes handy.

You could install CGX AGA driver and compare the speed of your port with Hyperion's Quake2.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Hattig on February 05, 2013, 01:21:42 PM
Quote from: Crumb;725415

IIRC Doom doesn't write to the screen sequentially but in columns so pixels can't be grouped easily when writting to chipram.


Indeed, Doom's graphics engine is an advanced raycaster, and they get their speed because walls are merely vertically scaling a pixel-wide slice of a texture - and you can do a 1 dimensional scale very easily in integer maths.

In this case it's simply easier to render to a chunky buffer in fast RAM, and then copy/translate it to display memory using an optimised C2P routine. But even that's difficult, as you are turning 32 chunky bytes into 8 planar 32-bit words. You inevitably need to store some working data in memory as you are processing things, so a fast large CPU cache comes in very handy.

Quote
Quake probably does the same so writting to gfx ram a row of 4 contiguous pixels requires may require redesigning the rasterizer, that could speed up writes notably. Perhaps rendering in 8x8, 16x16 or 32x32 groups speeds up rendering


Quake is not a raycaster, but instead it is a more conventional 3D renderer.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Crumb on February 05, 2013, 05:19:06 PM
Amiga version could be speed up if some code was moved to the C2P and interleaved with it in the parts where C2P is waiting for chipram access. An option to disable multitasking and using copper to switch between c2p and the rest of the code would be desirable too.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: XDelusion on February 05, 2013, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725390
Yeah don't give up on PrBOOM, my BOOM port is now at 'end-of-life' and it would be nice to have a more advanced port on my 1200 one of these days ;)

What happened to your Apollo 1260 btw, ever get it to run BOOM properly?


When I first set up my 1200 I had it running, then I started to go through your guide on tweaking my 1200 to make it even faster, which it did indeed do, but it also caused BOOM to start crashing upon launch.

I have moved again since then and am still trying to make ends meet so I've not had my 1200 out and set up for a while.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on February 05, 2013, 09:19:06 PM
Quote from: ChaosLord;725383
He cheated and used a PC gfx card :D


That's not true, the card I used was designed by Phase5 specifically for the Amiga A1200 and doesn't fit in any PC I've seen :-P

Even the chip that's on it supports proper big-endian 32-bit ARGB pixel modes, none of this horrid 32-bit ABGR filth.

However, it is a cheat because it's not running on the 68K, nor on OS3.x and is totally dependent on the graphics card to do the polygon rasterizing.

[youtube]UcuNR3yyIo4[/youtube]
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ChaosLord on February 05, 2013, 09:50:45 PM
Quote from: Hattig;725429

In this case it's simply easier to render to a chunky buffer in fast RAM, and then copy/translate it to display memory using an optimised C2P routine. But even that's difficult, as you are turning 32 chunky bytes into 8 planar 32-bit words. You inevitably need to store some working data in memory as you are processing things, so a fast large CPU cache comes in very handy.


Luckily for us, the 68040 with dual independent 4K L1 Caches was released in 1990 thus allowing Amiga to do 3D gaming properly.  :)

Not just a 4K L1 DataCache, but a CopyBack DataCache which massively helps out with this sort of code.   When you store things to memory you don't really store them to memory you just store them in the L1 Cache which is superfast.

My 68040 saved me from a life of slow 68030 drudgery.  Yahoo!
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: XDelusion on February 05, 2013, 09:54:27 PM
Quote from: Karlos;725468
That's not true, the card I used was designed by Phase5 specifically for the Amiga A1200 and doesn't fit in any PC I've seen :-P

Even the chip that's on it supports proper big-endian 32-bit ARGB pixel modes, none of this horrid 32-bit ABGR filth.

However, it is a cheat because it's not running on the 68K, nor on OS3.x and is totally dependent on the graphics card to do the polygon rasterizing.

[youtube]UcuNR3yyIo4[/youtube]


Uhhmmmmm...

What hardware is that running on?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on February 05, 2013, 10:11:08 PM
Quote from: XDelusion;725470
Uhhmmmmm...

What hardware is that running on?


The worst hardware you could possibly want to run it on from the point of view of what it was originally developed for ;)

My A1200+BPPC+BVision
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: XDelusion on February 05, 2013, 10:21:04 PM
Quote from: Karlos;725472
The worst hardware you could possibly want to run it on from the point of view of what it was originally developed for ;)

My A1200+BPPC+BVision


And there in lies half of the fun...

...pushing limited hardware to do things it was never intended to do. :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on February 05, 2013, 11:40:55 PM
Quote from: XDelusion;725485
You should feel ashamed, and ban yourself! :)


Tried, it doesn't work.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 05, 2013, 11:48:02 PM
I think the point is, that you can do a lot more with AGA and 68k than they ever did back-in-the-day (providing you have a fast 68k CPU of course).

Basically we got to about 96(?) and everyone gave up on AGA/68k and went over to PPC with Mediators using PC graphics cards.   Quake 2 wasn't even release until 97 so for an AGA 1200 to even run it, that's pretty cool.

A modern 68060 CPU card design (like Jens ACA cards) would be really something special, if it was coupled with a decent 68k gcc compiler and a chunky graphics mode then it would be even more impressive :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on February 06, 2013, 12:10:18 AM
@NovaCoder

Have you ever investigated those RGB -> HAM C2P routines that are on aminet? Some of them are probably copyspeed on the speed of 060 you are using. At some stage in the rendering code, after the shadowmap is blended with the texture colour, the engine probably has to convert an RGB value back to a palette entry. Clickboom's Quake port had a 16-bit mode in RTG, it would be very cool to see something like that in AGA.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 06, 2013, 12:23:16 AM
Hiya,

Yes I did actually spend quite a bit of time looking at those HAM8 C2P routines, I wanted to use them to display the GUI in ScummVM AGA which is natively rendered in 16 bit color.   I had really trouble getting my head around what to set the palette values to so in the end I gave up and had to covert the 16 bit color values to 8 bit color values in real-time using a look-up table.  I'm probably going to have to use the same approach for my current port of DosBox 0.74 to AGA ;)

Anyway it appears that rendering HAM8 (via C2P) is not really any slower than normal 8 bit C2P, the real overheard is generating the color values to  be used (which is very slow to do dynamically).    I guess this is the reason that HAM8 C2P hasn't been used in any games, for the demos that used HAM8 (eg the awesome Push (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgxk3Bk_vEI)), I assume they just pre-calculate the palette entries.


Then again MooVid has a fast dynamic HAM8 display mode so there must be way...
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ChaosLord on February 06, 2013, 12:38:03 AM
I investigated making the animated parts of my games use HAM8 mode but... it would either not work or be really really complicated and a ton of work... for that much work I could just rewrite the game to use 16.7 million TrueColor gfx cards so I just kinda gave up on HAM8.

When you start going into HAM8 it conflicts with traditional color cycling techniques that I get to use in normal 256 color mode.

You have to avoid fringing.

Its way more complicated.

More coding.  More work.

In the end I settled for 256 color mode because I can do superfast multilayer blitting. Colorcycling the way I want it.  Never have to worry about fringing.

I just use HAM8 for TitleScreens and such.

I would not mind displaying movies in HAM8.  But I could not work out how to use/adapt CDXL video format for HAM8 purposes.  It did not exactly have user-friendly documentation.  I could have figured it all out if I was willing to devote my whole life to it for 30 solid days.  I didn't feel like it was worth 30 days of my life just to play HAM8 CDXL32 movies in my game.  So I passed on it.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Crumb on February 06, 2013, 08:12:06 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725491
Anyway it appears that rendering HAM8 (via C2P) is not really any slower than normal 8 bit C2P, the real overheard is generating the color values to  be used (which is very slow to do dynamically).    I guess this is the reason that HAM8 C2P hasn't been used in any games, for the demos that used HAM8 (eg the awesome Push (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgxk3Bk_vEI)), I assume they just pre-calculate the palette entries.


In some demos the screen is configured as SuperHiRes, grouping 3/4 pixels and drawing R/G/B separately, the palette is fixed and the c2p  changes the colour to the nearer, if it's in the 64 colour palette you draw it, if it's not you modify the previous one. You can simply avoid using the palette and just modify the value of the previous pixel :-)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Britelite on February 07, 2013, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725491

Anyway it appears that rendering HAM8 (via C2P) is not really any slower than normal 8 bit C2P, the real overheard is generating the color values to  be used (which is very slow to do dynamically).

And most demos used a 160x100 HAM-mode instead of 320x200, as a 320x200 HAM8 c2p-mode would require a superhires mode and 4x the amount of bytes written to chipmem, making it pretty useless.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 08, 2013, 11:07:17 PM
AmiQuake 2 AGA - BETA6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8rapwZ6nSw&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: utri007 on February 08, 2013, 11:19:15 PM
To make it playable you really need to reduce visual effects, dynamic lights, shadows etc. or are configurable through ini?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 12, 2013, 10:57:57 PM
BETA 7 - 68k + AGA only (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eaj4H53WRfk)

Still needs some more work to increase the speed but it's getting there.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Hattig on February 12, 2013, 11:24:46 PM
That's looking pretty impressive now! What frame rates are you seeing?

Would you get a speed up with an option for double width pixels, or even 2x2 pixels like in Alien Breed? If so, would that be enough for a less speedy '060?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on February 12, 2013, 11:37:29 PM
I can easily can make it faster of course, but only with a loss of graphical quality and effects.   The really hard thing to do is to make if a faster with minimal loss of visual quality.

If you turn off dynamic lighting, transparencies etc etc, you just end up with something that looks like Quake ;)

Quake 2 AGA obviously pushes the original hardware to the max, this is only going to playable for people with very fast classic Amiga's.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on March 13, 2013, 10:46:19 PM
Finally got it running at a good speed on my A1200, a lot of people didn't this would even be possible on AGA 68k!

BETA 10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw4L-0ITeOI)

Should be able to release in a few days to AmiNet.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: XDelusion on March 13, 2013, 11:07:47 PM
Quote from: novacoder;729089
finally got it running at a good speed on my a1200, a lot of people didn't this would even be possible on aga 68k!

beta 10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw4l-0iteoi)

should be able to release in a few days to aminet.


mad skillz!
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on March 20, 2013, 09:19:48 PM
My signature just got updated ;)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on March 20, 2013, 09:26:00 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;729862
My signature just got updated ;)

Do I really, really, really need 64 MB of RAM? If I have 32 MB of RAM I would not be able to play the game? If so, that means I will be forced to tower my A1200 to extend another 32 MB of RAM LOL!
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: yssing on March 20, 2013, 09:27:27 PM
I have to try it on my A1200 setup later.
I just tried it on winUAE, it ran waaay to fast.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: paul1981 on March 20, 2013, 09:48:35 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;729862
My signature just got updated ;)

64MB ram required? If this isn't desktop Apollo discrimination then I don't know what is! :lol:
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: yssing on March 20, 2013, 10:03:43 PM
It takes forever to load on my A1200

And it crashed after 10 seconds :(
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on March 20, 2013, 10:05:56 PM
Quote from: paul1981;729870
64MB ram required? If this isn't desktop Apollo discrimination then I don't know what is! :lol:

LOL! Tell me about :P
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: fitzsteve on March 20, 2013, 10:08:29 PM
Quote from: yssing;729875
It takes forever to load on my A1200

There's a few things you can do:

Better file system like SFS/PFS3 + increase HDD buffers.  Will help a bit

Buy an IDEFix Express.  Will help a bit more

Buy a FastATA :biglaugh:

Essentially Quake II is a very big Game, if you're loading 40mb+ at 1.5mb/sec then it's going to take... well I'll leave you to do the maths...

If you have only 20-30 HDD buffers (standard for FFS) it's going to take forever!
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: yssing on March 20, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
I have a fastata and using a CF as hd. Ill check the buffers, but I think they are 500. I do how ever use FFS.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on March 20, 2013, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: yssing;729880
I have a fastata and using a CF as hd. Ill check the buffers, but I think they are 500. I do how ever use FFS.


FFS?

Go and hang your head in shame

:)

PFS3 is free you know.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Methuselas on March 20, 2013, 10:44:24 PM
What???!?? No *HARDWARE* rendering??!???

PSSH!!!!!

;)

Good job! Makes me wish I had an 060/1200 just to play it. :P
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: fishy_fiz on March 21, 2013, 02:35:34 AM
Perhaps something like Gigamem might help get it running on machines with less than 64meg?
Might be some slow downs when swapping, but better than not being able to run it at all.

Oh, and if someone does choose to use Gigamem, read the docs :) I learned the hard way that it wasnt lying when it said swap space cant be on a pfs partition (destroyed all my pfs partitions, even those that I'd  not assigned it to use).
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on March 21, 2013, 02:57:07 AM
New version released v1.01 to AmiNet.

Fixes the bug with using the +/- keys to resize the screen and also improves speed :)

v1.01 AmiQuake2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-jWHugcqM&feature=youtu.be)

:)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: fishy_fiz on March 21, 2013, 12:46:52 PM
Good stuff there Novacoder. Definitely a noticeable difference in speed vs some earlier videos.

It's amazing what can be squeezed out the classic amigas really. Some of the software being ported lately show it didnt need to appear as hugely outclassed as it did in the era of its commercial demise (higher spec 486/early pentium, playstation, saturn, etc.).

Granted these sorts of overclocked '060 cards were at best rare back then, but clearly the good ol' classics towards the end had more in them than (most of) the games suggested.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on March 21, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;729906
New version released v1.01 to AmiNet.

Fixes the bug with using the +/- keys to resize the screen and also improves speed :)

v1.01 AmiQuake2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-jWHugcqM&feature=youtu.be)

:)


Very nice indeed, well done! :)

Is there a document somewhere that details your modifications and optimizations to the code?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on March 21, 2013, 07:19:28 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;729906
New version released v1.01 to AmiNet.

Fixes the bug with using the +/- keys to resize the screen and also improves speed :)

v1.01 AmiQuake2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-jWHugcqM&feature=youtu.be)

:)

Hey NovaCoder? Can you throw a percentage here..just a roll of a dice from 0% to 100% about porting Quake 3 to Amiga 1200?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: XDelusion on March 21, 2013, 07:44:50 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;729957
Hey NovaCoder? Can you throw a percentage here..just a roll of a dice from 0% to 100% about porting Quake 3 to Amiga 1200?


We don't have a 680x0 fast enough to run Quake 3, also you'd need a VooDoo 3 or something to play it.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on March 21, 2013, 08:05:14 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;729906
New version released v1.01 to AmiNet.

Fixes the bug with using the +/- keys to resize the screen and also improves speed :)

v1.01 AmiQuake2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-jWHugcqM&feature=youtu.be)

:)

Hey by the way off topic a little bit. I tried monkey island 3 in scummVMAGA and it is pretty slow...even at my Apollo 1260 @ 80 Mhz with 32 MB of RAM (optomized) is that normal?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on March 21, 2013, 11:05:33 PM
Yep it's normal for Monkey Island 3 to be slow on AGA, checkout the games original requirements and you'll see why.  Maybe we can get some more speed if Jens ever gets around to releasing that chunky mode, who knows.


I think Quake 2 is the most demanding 3d engine that can use a software renderer, I wouldn't even try anything more demanding with AGA.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: yssing on March 24, 2013, 09:52:35 AM
I swapped my CF card with a real harddrive, installed PFS3, and now everything loads a lot faster. Q2 loads more than twice as fast.

I still need to overclock my 060 though in order to make Q2 playable, but in any case, its very cool to hace Q2 running on the classic setup.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on March 31, 2013, 04:18:27 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;729905
Perhaps something like Gigamem might help get it running on machines with less than 64meg?
Might be some slow downs when swapping, but better than not being able to run it at all.

Oh, and if someone does choose to use Gigamem, read the docs :) I learned the hard way that it wasnt lying when it said swap space cant be on a pfs partition (destroyed all my pfs partitions, even those that I'd  not assigned it to use).

Any idea where I can find GigaMem? Thanks.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: zipper on March 31, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
It was delivered with at least Oktagon2008: http://amiga.resource.cx/install/BSC_GigaMem-20.dms
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: paul1981 on March 31, 2013, 04:49:17 PM
So what sort of performance are people getting out of there Amiga's with this new conversion? Also, does it work with virtual memory on 32MB systems?
I'm reluctant to use virtual memory on an Amiga, but I'd be interested to know if it works in this case.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 01, 2013, 01:44:06 AM
I installed GigaMem and I get this error message at startup:

No name specified for SWAPPARTITION keyword.
*** Keyword skipped.
Cannot examine swap partition ':'.

-ANY KEY-

I do not know what to do with that. When I double click Quake 2 I still get out of memory even after in the prefs I specified I want to use virtual memory only. What recommendation do you guys have?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 01, 2013, 07:54:22 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;730878
I installed GigaMem and I get this error message at startup:

No name specified for SWAPPARTITION keyword.
*** Keyword skipped.
Cannot examine swap partition ':'.

-ANY KEY-

I do not know what to do with that. When I double click Quake 2 I still get out of memory even after in the prefs I specified I want to use virtual memory only. What recommendation do you guys have?

Going by the error it needs a swap partition. Maybe specify the name of the partition you want to use.

Probably a setting/switch in your startup-sequence... although I've been told it doesn't play well with PFS partitions.

It's also only supposed to support 68020's and 68030's. So not sure a 68060 is going to work with it.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 01, 2013, 08:04:43 AM
AmigaVMM - Very unstable, does show virtual memory is running but locks up, WHDLoad stops working.

There is HDMem and Gigamem 3.0. Gigamem 3.0 supports 040's but can't find a link. HDMem not sure havent tried it.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 01, 2013, 08:11:43 AM
Link to gigamem 3.12 if you want to try it :-) remember it only supports what's in the gigamem's database so you'll need to add quake2 to the database. Although I don't think that's going to work.

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Files/GigaMem%203.12%20(199x)(Relog%20AG)%5bWB%5d.zip
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: itix on April 01, 2013, 01:30:39 PM
Quote from: Lurch;730888
Link to gigamem 3.12 if you want to try it :-) remember it only supports what's in the gigamem's database so you'll need to add quake2 to the database. Although I don't think that's going to work.

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Files/GigaMem%203.12%20(199x)(Relog%20AG)%5bWB%5d.zip


Unless the Amiga software is documented to support virtual memory it should not be used with virtual memory. There are runtime restrictions to virtual memory access and unless software is designed to support these restrictions they are likely to crash violently.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 01, 2013, 06:05:43 PM
Quote from: Lurch;730888
Link to gigamem 3.12 if you want to try it :-) remember it only supports what's in the gigamem's database so you'll need to add quake2 to the database. Although I don't think that's going to work.

http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Files/GigaMem%203.12%20(199x)(Relog%20AG)%5bWB%5d.zip

That is the software I used and I get this error message and I did add Quake 2 into the database and still fails. I am using Apollo 1260 so I take it, I should forget about virtual memory all together for classic Amiga then.

Thanks.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 01, 2013, 06:30:01 PM
Gigamem 3.12 - Can install it fine, changed it to use a file instead of a partition under pref's. But as expected doesn't enable virtual memory for me using an 060. No error messages though just doesn't show any virtual memory.

HDMem - Can only find a demo version of this program. The demo only allows 1MB of VM. Which it does fine, but an extra 1MB is a waste of time :-)

AmigaVMM - I've had this working and virtual memory is made available but have run out of time testing any app's/games. It is very unstable, and even opening the VMM program itself can cause my machine to lock.

I think it locks up due to the RemApollo program but haven't looked into it. When I get a chance later this week will have another play with it.

There are a few other programs on Aminet other than the above 3, so will have a play with those.

Any that mention that don't need an MMU are usually fakes, I'm glad that aminet has a gag section so I know which not to try ;-)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 01, 2013, 07:08:47 PM
What is the conclusion then?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 01, 2013, 10:19:42 PM
AmigaVMM is probably viable but I need to go through disabling things in startup. Starting with Remapollo.

I'm also working on making (with my limited skills) something that will let me use 64MB in a desktop case.

Waiting on some parts to turn up though and I need to test it. All theory and drawn on a piece of paper atm.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 02, 2013, 03:11:59 AM
Quote from: Lurch;730929
AmigaVMM is probably viable but I need to go through disabling things in startup. Starting with Remapollo.
 
I'm also working on making (with my limited skills) something that will let me use 64MB in a desktop case.
 
Waiting on some parts to turn up though and I need to test it. All theory and drawn on a piece of paper atm.

 
I hope it works. My setting is AmigaSYS AGA, with RemApollo,CPU060, Fblit and Ftext combination...because of these I cannot even run shapeshifter (Mac emulator in my Amiga). When I do PReEmulation A1200 RemApollo seem to have problem with it when I do rebooting.  But I will be posting helping in a complete different topic..in the meantime I am just giving you my setup here in hopes AmigaVMM might be the only solution for me.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: paul1981 on April 02, 2013, 11:06:44 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;730948
I hope it works. My setting is AmigaSYS AGA, with RemApollo,CPU060, Fblit and Ftext combination...because of these I cannot even run shapeshifter (Mac emulator in my Amiga). When I do PReEmulation A1200 RemApollo seem to have problem with it when I do rebooting.  But I will be posting helping in a complete different topic..in the meantime I am just giving you my setup here in hopes AmigaVMM might be the only solution for me.

Are you softkicking a kickstart different to the one in your rom chips? If not then you don't need RemAPollo. I haven't played around with RemAPollo much as I haven't really needed it, but I'm guessing the prepareemul move 4k command is conflicting with your relocated kickstart. I use the command in the MMUlib distribution which seems to work for me:

http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/MMULib

Then again, how that will play with RemAPollo I have no idea. Question is do you need to use RemAPollo?

I'll need to soon as I'd like to build a custom kickstart. :cool:

BTW, it's not FBlit or FText causing your Shapeshifter problem, as I run these and loads of other patches and my Shapeshifter works fine.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on April 02, 2013, 11:08:22 PM
@Novacoder

I realise it's an AGA port, but is there any RTG compatibility in your version?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: matthey on April 02, 2013, 11:15:22 PM
NovaCoder is on vacation for a few weeks so he might be slow to answer. It's not because he's ignoring anyone.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 02, 2013, 11:49:19 PM
Hiya Matt,

Yep just got back from hols, back to nasty old work tomorrow :(


Nope, no RTG support currently.   A few people have asked about it and although it would be easy enough to add there really isn't much point.  It won't make hardly any difference to speed as all it would be doing is skipping the C2P (which doesn't take much processing time at 320x240).

If you have an RTG card then you can just use Hyperion's port instead.


I just noticed that AmiQuake 2 runs out of hunk memory when trying to load up level 4 with 64MB, I've fixed it up so I'll upload v1.03 at some point.

v1.02 on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgqPJ9FRW8Y&feature=youtu.be)

I think the only way that I might be able to increase speed further is if I can get some 060 scan-line rendering assembler linked in.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on April 03, 2013, 01:00:07 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;731036
Nope, no RTG support currently.   A few people have asked about it and although it would be easy enough to add there really isn't much point.  It won't make hardly any difference to speed as all it would be doing is skipping the C2P (which doesn't take much processing time at 320x240).


Not all RTG systems are the same. I can push around 15-18MiB/s on mine using move16 with an 040 @25MHz. That's significantly faster than AGA copy speed, for example.

Quote
If you have an RTG card then you can just use Hyperion's port instead.


Don't confuse RTG with hardware 3D, which AFAIK is required for said version.

There are probably quite a few people with fast RTG/68K systems that don't have native AGA displays hooked up.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 03, 2013, 03:28:56 AM
Quote from: paul1981;731024
Are you softkicking a kickstart different to the one in your rom chips? If not then you don't need RemAPollo. I haven't played around with RemAPollo much as I haven't really needed it, but I'm guessing the prepareemul move 4k command is conflicting with your relocated kickstart. I use the command in the MMUlib distribution which seems to work for me:

http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/MMULib

Then again, how that will play with RemAPollo I have no idea. Question is do you need to use RemAPollo?

I'll need to soon as I'd like to build a custom kickstart. :cool:

BTW, it's not FBlit or FText causing your Shapeshifter problem, as I run these and loads of other patches and my Shapeshifter works fine.

Isn't the RemApollo needed period to fully optimize the Apollo 1260? Because when I was not using RemApollo it was not optimized fully and even the game full throttle was not runninng at full optimization.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: fishy_fiz on April 03, 2013, 06:02:24 AM
RemApollo simply lets a person softkick. It offers no optimisations by itself. However having kickstart in fast ram will noticably speed up some things. In terms of overall performance though it offers nothing over other options to run kickstart from fast ram.

In regards to Gigamem, I actually use it for a few bits and pieces and it works nicely. I dont use a dedicated partition, but rather a swap file.

@Karlos

Hyperion's 68k Quake2 does indeed have a software rendering mode. Quite fast too. I get a lttle over 300fps with my amithlon box in low res. (although its too fast that way so I bump resolution up to 1280x1024).
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 05, 2013, 01:01:34 AM
Only thing left for me to do with this port to increase speed futher is to try and replace some of the C funtions with hand-written 060 targeted assembler.

If any talented assembler guys would like to help, I've created a developement thread over on AmigaCoding (http://www.amigacoding.de/index.php?topic=304.msg959#msg959)

If I can get some good peformance increases, this will also improve the speed of my Quake port because they share the same drawing functions.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 05, 2013, 02:09:14 AM
I checked and RemApollo DOES INDEED MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE in my Amiga performance. All I do is type RemApollo QUIET in my startup sequence and my Amiga 1200 zooms like a rocket instead of a bicycle. So yes I do need it.  Also even if I did for some reason disable it, PreEmulA1200 does not work. It reboots, the screen becomes red, the power led flashes couple of times, reboot back with software failure and my Shapeshifter fails to load asking for PreEmulA1200 all over again. So the only coolest emulator in my A1200 cannot run is the Mac emulator :(
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 05, 2013, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;731308
I checked and RemApollo DOES INDEED MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE in my Amiga performance. All I do is type RemApollo QUIET in my startup sequence and my Amiga 1200 zooms like a rocket instead of a bicycle. So yes I do need it.  Also even if I did for some reason disable it, PreEmulA1200 does not work. It reboots, the screen becomes red, the power led flashes couple of times, reboot back with software failure and my Shapeshifter fails to load asking for PreEmulA1200 all over again. So the only coolest emulator in my A1200 cannot run is the Mac emulator :(


Yep it made a big speed difference for me to, I've also mentioned it in the AmiQuake 2 readme.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ChaosLord on April 05, 2013, 02:23:56 AM
RemApollo has always been in my Startup-Sequence.  I was never silly enuff to remove it. :hat:
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 05, 2013, 02:47:13 AM
Quote from: ChaosLord;731312
RemApollo has always been in my Startup-Sequence.  I was never silly enuff to remove it. :hat:

yes but how do you go about running shapeshifter then? Anyone with a soluton? ChaosLord I send you a PM requesting CD preparation for totalchaos. I send you detail about it...thanks.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: PanterHZ on April 05, 2013, 03:05:34 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;731317
yes but how do you go about running shapeshifter then? Anyone with a soluton? ChaosLord I send you a PM requesting CD preparation for totalchaos. I send you detail about it...thanks.

I do belive RemApollo has an option for fixing this, something like: RemApollo Mac QUIET
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: paul1981 on April 05, 2013, 12:22:56 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;731308
I checked and RemApollo DOES INDEED MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE in my Amiga performance. All I do is type RemApollo QUIET in my startup sequence and my Amiga 1200 zooms like a rocket instead of a bicycle. So yes I do need it.  Also even if I did for some reason disable it, PreEmulA1200 does not work. It reboots, the screen becomes red, the power led flashes couple of times, reboot back with software failure and my Shapeshifter fails to load asking for PreEmulA1200 all over again. So the only coolest emulator in my A1200 cannot run is the Mac emulator :(

RemAPollo in your case is simply remapping the kickstart into fast ram. There's nothing wrong with that and yes it gives a speed boost, but what I was trying to say is that RemAPollo isn't actually required unless you're booting a different kickstart than the one in your ROM chips (3.1 probably). For instance, the Apollo cpu command (that came on the apollo install disk) called cpu60 can also do this. So can the standard cpu command provided with Workbench.
If you go to a shell and type "cpu60 b" then this will turn on all the goodies of your 060 and also move your ROM to RAM.

Is it possible you could copy and paste your Startup-sequence onto here so we can see it? Then we might be able to help you with the red screen problem.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: utri007 on April 05, 2013, 12:35:39 PM
PreEmulA1200 just woun't work with Remapollo, use REMAPOLLO MAC QUIET instead. MAC switch does same trick.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 14, 2013, 08:30:06 AM
Finally getting some good speed out of this sucker :blink:

video of v1.06 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNeYt35609g&feature=youtu.be)

Seems much nicer to play now too :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: cunnpole on April 14, 2013, 10:39:01 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;731976
Seems much nicer to play now too


Blimey that's faster than it plays on my 233Mhz Cyrix, even with its voodoo2.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on April 14, 2013, 12:56:40 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;731976
Finally getting some good speed out of this sucker :blink:

video of v1.06 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNeYt35609g&feature=youtu.be)

Seems much nicer to play now too :)

(http://www.kitchenroundtable.com/i/smiley/bow.gif)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ByteRyder on April 14, 2013, 02:49:08 PM
Awesome. This is getting better everyday! :)

@nova I'm wondering would it be possible to use some of the techniques you're using to make AmiQuake 2 faster on AmiQuake and make that a little faster aswell?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: utri007 on April 14, 2013, 04:12:50 PM
When I can download this new version? Is brightness bug fixed?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Fransexy_ on April 14, 2013, 04:34:03 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;731976
Finally getting some good speed out of this sucker :blink:

video of v1.06 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNeYt35609g&feature=youtu.be)

Seems much nicer to play now too :)


Back in the day i remember ID software saying Amiga was not captable of run games like DOOM. Today even Quake 2 can run on a classic Amiga. ID software how wrong you were, or how you looked for bad excuses  to not port your games
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 14, 2013, 09:36:11 PM
Quote from: utri007;731988
When I can download this new version? Is brightness bug fixed?


Yep brightness ok now, probably upload it next week.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 14, 2013, 09:59:55 PM
Quote from: ByteRyder;731986
Awesome. This is getting better everyday! :)

@nova I'm wondering would it be possible to use some of the techniques you're using to make AmiQuake 2 faster on AmiQuake and make that a little faster aswell?


Yes I do hope to add some Quake 2 code to AmiQuake (eg gun sights) and should also be able to boost the speed a little now.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: utri007 on April 14, 2013, 11:25:11 PM
You start to be quit experienced now :) You have probably checked many sources when you looked possible game ports? Could you share that information to us? What ports could be possible, what would need to do, what experince would be needed? Do you have some kind of list? Like Alien Breed 3D - TKG code is ASM and completely mess, almost impossible. etc? That would be helpfull, for those who are looking for possibilities.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 15, 2013, 12:59:14 AM
Quote from: utri007;732015
You start to be quit experienced now :) You have probably checked many sources when you looked possible game ports? Could you share that information to us? What ports could be possible, what would need to do, what experince would be needed? Do you have some kind of list? Like Alien Breed 3D - TKG code is ASM and completely mess, almost impossible. etc? That would be helpfull, for those who are looking for possibilities.

Yep I've done this a few times  now so this is what I've learned when choosing some older (open source) PC software to port to AGA 68k.

1) Needs to support 8bit obviously
2) Resolution should be 320x240 max (320x200 is better)
3) Obviously needs to use a software rendering engine (no 3D hardware required)
4) Must provide C code and not rely on X86 assembler
5) Must support big endian

It's best to choose an open source project where someone has already gone to the trouble of cleaning the nasty old X86 code up and making it system independent (most of those old DOS games are a bit scary).

Most of the time the thing you want to port will use the SDL so this is currently the steps I typically perform for porting a project using gcc 3.4 (AmiDevCpp).

1) Try and get it working using the old 68k RTG SDL, replace any missing UNIX functions with Amiga equivalents (eg DOS functions).
2) Once it's basically working using the SDL, I replace each SDL area (sound, input, timing, graphics) with Amiga/AGA equivalents (obviously test each stage as it's removed).
3) Remove all debugging/test code that might slow it down (writing to the console or log files is very slow) .
4) Remove any features that would be too slow under AGA (eg multi-player network support, fancy graphical effects, CDROM support).
5) If possible remove multi-threading and run-time type checking (C++).
6) If possible replace any core rendering functions with assembler (my Quake ports only use a tiny bit of assembler but they use it in the right places).
7) Replace memory copy functions and memory allocation functions with their Amiga equivalents.


I'm currently trying to develop a very basic AGA SDL, if I can get this working it would really help with porting more stuff to 68k AGA.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 15, 2013, 01:12:29 AM
NovaCoder if you do manage to get a full functioning 100% AGA SDL does that mean games in Aminet that I want so badly to run on my Amiga 1200 AGA will be able to be ported and run on AGA without the need of RTG anymore? Like Zelda and so on?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 15, 2013, 01:25:34 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;732031
NovaCoder if you do manage to get a full functioning 100% AGA SDL does that mean games in Aminet that I want so badly to run on my Amiga 1200 AGA will be able to be ported and run on AGA without the need of RTG anymore? Like Zelda and so on?

Not sure, might make it a bit easier possibly.

Like I said it will be a very basic implementation of the SDL so not all features will be supported.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 15, 2013, 01:37:15 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;732032
Not sure, might make it a bit easier possibly.

Like I said it will be a very basic implementation of the SDL so not all features will be supported.

Can't functions and features in SDL be ported and converted to work in the hardware of the Amiga? Say for example graphics that usually requires RTG in that function will convert the colors and bits and the way it displays it to work in 100% optimization yet maintain the most possible colors in AGA and maintain decent speed? Thus this SDL will only run on AGA as the MOST MINIMUM requirement and RTG card is recommended and the AGA SDL will function better on RTG ? What about sound functions? Can those again be converted to run on PAULA? The function names of the SDL remain the same just the property behind them designed to work on AGA system and the minimum requirement for speed is a 68060 card?

There could be a possibility that maybe not 100% but at least 80% of the SDL function possibly ported and the programmer who is porting SDL games will have to deal with just 20% on their own. Maybe if you could achieve that it would make porting SDL games and even apps much easier on 68k AGA system.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: kickstart on April 15, 2013, 01:42:55 AM
Quote from: Fransexy_;731989
Back in the day i remember ID software saying Amiga was not captable of run games like DOOM. Today even Quake 2 can run on a classic Amiga. ID software how wrong you were, or how you looked for bad excuses  to not port your games


At this times no one worry about doom games on amiga with the huge amiga game library.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Hattig on April 15, 2013, 09:09:09 AM
Quote from: Fransexy_;731989
Back in the day i remember ID software saying Amiga was not captable of run games like DOOM. Today even Quake 2 can run on a classic Amiga. ID software how wrong you were, or how you looked for bad excuses  to not port your games


To be fair they were talking about 14MHz 68020s, not 80MHz 68060s. Even the high-end Amiga was shipping with a 25MHz 68040, which could probably run Quake 2 at around 2 FPS (has anyone tried with this release?).
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: matthey on April 15, 2013, 10:16:29 AM
Quote from: Hattig;732046
To be fair they were talking about 14MHz 68020s, not 80MHz 68060s. Even the high-end Amiga was shipping with a 25MHz 68040, which could probably run Quake 2 at around 2 FPS (has anyone tried with this release?).

There is a video on youtube of 68040@40MHz with Mediator+Voodoo 3 running Q2 with Warp3D at probably 10-15fps. I expect this could be 15-20fps with better optimization (the 68k Warp3D code is a disgrace in optimization and Q2 is probably compiled for the 68060 with plenty of room for assembler optimizations). I think 2-5 fps is probably about right on a stock 3640 with 68040@25MHz although it wouldn't run with only the 16MB of memory on the motherboard (another problem). The high end 68040 (with heavy optimizations) and most 68060 accelerators were capable (FPU and memory) but were unusual and often didn't have RTG let alone 3D capabilities. The 68k compilers never optimized as well for the 68040 and 68060 as they did for the 68020/68030. The 68040 and 68060 can do a lot in parallel but code optimization was never really emphasized by Motorola like Intel did for the x86 (or aggressive clock increases). The 68040 could outperform the 486 at a lower clock and the 68060 could outperform the Pentium at a lower clock. The 68060 is absolutely amazing in the hands of a capable assembler programmer. It can do 2 integer instructions (or 1 integer + 1 FPU instruction), 1 FPU instruction and 1 branch instruction in parallel while folding away predicted branches for no cost loops (the decrement and branch is free). The 68060 was probably the best all around processor of that time (and a few years after) but it was doomed from the start as the big users were already planning moves to the RISC promised land (slower for several years without thousands of dollars of memory). Motorola knew then that the PPC would dominate the future and x86.

P.S. Wolfenstein and Doom are another story and could have made money on the Amiga (would have sold a lot of accelerators for the 1200).
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Cosmos on April 15, 2013, 10:28:58 AM
I remember one Amiga coder who said to me that CodeWarrior on Mac68k is a good C/C++ compilator...

Don't know if it's true or not, I need to check and see...
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Hattig on April 15, 2013, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: matthey;732047
There is a video on youtube of 68040@40MHz with Mediator+Voodoo 3 running Q2 with Warp3D at probably 10-15fps. I expect this could be 15-20fps with better optimization (the 68k Warp3D code is a disgrace in optimization and Q2 is probably compiled for the 68060 with plenty of room for assembler optimizations).


That is with a graphics card running the rendering, a slightly different proposition than this AGA implementation of Q2.

Quote
P.S. Wolfenstein and Doom are another story and could have made money on the Amiga (would have sold a lot of accelerators for the 1200).


Very true - an accelerator is a lot cheaper investment than a full new PC to play a game, if that game exists.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Khephren on April 15, 2013, 02:00:12 PM
I have to disagree, By 1993 could you could buy a PC for less than an A1200 and 030. And get a monitor, CDROM and soundblaster into the bargain. It would be faster as well.

As much as I love my Amiga, let's not try to change history here.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Hattig on April 15, 2013, 02:25:43 PM
Quote from: Khephren;732066
I have to disagree, By 1993 could you could buy a PC for less than an A1200 and 030. And get a monitor, CDROM and soundblaster into the bargain. It would be faster as well.

As much as I love my Amiga, let's not try to change history here.


I am working from the assumption that you have the A1200 already, so only need the accelerator. On the other hand it was often the teenager in the family that had the A1200, so even £100 for an add-on card was a lot to pay.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: cunnpole on April 15, 2013, 03:13:11 PM
Quote from: Khephren;732066
I have to disagree, By 1993 could you could buy a PC for less than an A1200 and 030. And get a monitor, CDROM and soundblaster into the bargain. It would be faster as well.


"Multimedia" PCs cost a bloody fortune (£1500+) back in 93. At least around these parts. It wasn't until 95 that decent PCs became dirt cheap
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Faerytale on April 15, 2013, 03:19:54 PM
People didnt care about cost. They wanted the best platform with bright future and the rest is history!
And here we are with windows 8 ;)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on April 15, 2013, 10:20:57 PM
Speaking of awesome quake2 ports, check this one out
[youtube]-eG2ufixgF4[/youtube]
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 16, 2013, 03:20:55 AM
@Karlos - Is that on your A1?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 16, 2013, 03:28:53 AM
Quote from: Khephren;732066
I have to disagree, By 1993 could you could buy a PC for less than an A1200 and 030. And get a monitor, CDROM and soundblaster into the bargain. It would be faster as well.

As much as I love my Amiga, let's not try to change history here.


I had a 486SX/25 with a Soundblaster/CDROM compared to my 500 it was a beast. Sold my 500 that year, had it since release though :-)

It was cheaper and hardware was more available at the time, and FPS games wow :-)

Was my first HP (hire purchase) Miss it, it was a Commodore version in a desktop case. The same one the A4000 was sold in.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 16, 2013, 04:11:08 AM
Quote from: Karlos;732099
Speaking of awesome quake2 ports, check this one out


Yep that does look pretty awesome :)


Obviously it's not running as fast as my AGA port but you can't have everything.....
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on April 16, 2013, 05:06:59 AM
Quote from: Lurch;732108
@Karlos - Is that on your A1?


It's this Windows only port: http://berserker.quakegate.ru

Quote from: Lurch;732109
I had a 486SX/25 with a Soundblaster/CDROM compared to my 500 it was a beast. Sold my 500 that year, had it since release though :-)

It was cheaper and hardware was more available at the time, and FPS games wow :-)

Was my first HP (hire purchase) Miss it, it was a Commodore version in a desktop case. The same one the A4000 was sold in.


That was my first PC too. :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 16, 2013, 05:13:09 AM
Quote from: nicholas;732116
It's this Windows only port: http://berserker.quakegate.ru



Windows port on an Amiga forum!!! :-) LOL


Quote from: nicholas;732116

That was my first PC too. :)


Amazing machine, in the end use to run DesQview and QEMM memory manager so I could have two nodes for my BBS. One for me to logon with and the one connected to the phone line.

A mate of mine had a fully upgraded 500 he would dial in on, the ANSi would always look wrong on the Amiga.

Love ANSI art, have drawn a couple. Have lost the knack these days. Anyway getting OT :-)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on April 16, 2013, 05:18:40 AM
Quote from: Lurch;732117
Windows port on an Amiga forum!!! :-) LOL




Amazing machine, in the end use to run DesQview and QEMM memory manager so I could have two nodes for my BBS. One for me to logon with and the one connected to the phone line.

A mate of mine had a fully upgraded 500 he would dial in on, the ANSi would always look wrong on the Amiga.

Love ANSI art, have drawn a couple. Have lost the knack these days. Anyway getting OT :-)


Nice!

I remember pulling half the ram chips from the onboard Paradise VGA card and fitting them to my Gravis Ultrasound. :)

I eventually replaced the 486 CPU with a Pentium Overdrive which made it fly!

/Apologies for going OT....
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 16, 2013, 05:24:53 AM
Quote from: nicholas;732118
Nice!

/Apologies for going OT....


What on amiga.org, don't be silly ;)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on April 16, 2013, 05:38:06 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;732120
What on amiga.org, don't be silly ;)


:)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on April 16, 2013, 09:22:43 AM
LOL what was I thinking :-)

I upgraded the heck out of that 486, in the end it was moved into a full tower with a 486 DX4-133. Which was on par speed wise to a P75.

Lugging it around LAN parties at the time was fun, unloading the 17" CRT monitor and tower :-) Cheap way to get my car lowered at the time.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on April 21, 2013, 12:49:13 AM
Hiya,

Ok v1.06 released to AmiNet, this will probably be the last version as there is nothing else I want to do with it and can't get it any faster.

Quake 2 (http://youtu.be/mNeYt35609g)


Now supports the Official Mission Packs (note, they are very demanding!)

Ground Zero (http://youtu.be/yT3YlSJsbxU)
The Reckoning (http://youtu.be/CBgkr3ComKI)


I also did a quick RTG hack if anyone wants it -> RTG hack (http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=621703#post621703)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on April 21, 2013, 12:57:16 AM
I love it! Shame I cannot play it on my A1200, yet :(. My apollo need modification first to allow it support of additional 32 MB of RAM and be installed in a desktop case A1200. However, I need to cough up 300 dollars to do these modifications. I need to save up money first before I do this and it means my Amiga 1200 my be out of order again for another month before I can use it.

PS "I do not see the version released in aminet at all :("
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on April 21, 2013, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;732460
Hiya,

Ok v1.06 released to AmiNet, this will probably be the last version as there is nothing else I want to do with it and can't get it any faster.


Great, time to release the source code then :-D

Quote
I also did a quick RTG hack if anyone wants it -> RTG hack (http://www.a1k.org/forum/showthread.php?p=621703#post621703)


I'm totally up for playing around with a CyberGraphX / Picasso96 implementation.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on April 28, 2013, 02:04:19 PM
Quote from: Karlos;732492
Great, time to release the source code then :-D


Indeed it is. :)

I've looked on aminet and the eab thread but can't find the source yet.

@Novacoder

Could you please put the source on Aminet or maybe on sourceforge/github etc.

Cheers!
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on May 03, 2013, 02:25:12 AM
I'm still playing through the single player game (full retail version) and doing little tweaks here and there to the source code, I'll release it when I'm finished with it.  

So far my 060 seems to be up to the job and it's nice and playable :)

[youtube]rve4IJRSZxw[/youtube]
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on May 04, 2013, 12:39:23 AM
v1.07 in action :)

[youtube]SNKk9tQwwjM[/youtube]
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: magnetic on May 04, 2013, 01:53:36 AM
Nova
Awesome man thanks for keeping AGA alive. You are an Amiga super hero.

@ Crumb

When are you going to take down your offensive SATANIC avatar? I dont think it has a place here on an amiga site.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: mongo on May 04, 2013, 02:33:24 AM
Quote from: magnetic;733700

@ Crumb

When are you going to take down your offensive SATANIC avatar? I dont think it has a place here on an amiga site.


I find your question more offensive than his avatar.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: magnetic on May 04, 2013, 03:06:14 AM
So u love satan too or what?

and my question doesnt violate the TOS like that avatar does. I'm glad u enjoy upside down crosses
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: mongo on May 04, 2013, 03:40:57 AM
Quote from: magnetic;733702
So u love satan too or what?

and my question doesnt violate the TOS like that avatar does. I'm glad u enjoy upside down crosses


I never said I love Satan.  I have no idea if Crumb loves Satan, but if he does I don't see how his religious beliefs are any less valid than anyone else's. I also don't see how his avatar violates the TOS.

And for the record, I enjoy upside down crosses as much as I do right side up ones.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: kickstart on May 04, 2013, 05:15:30 AM
@magnetic

Really some anticrist pictures offends you? is ridiculus
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: utri007 on May 04, 2013, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: magnetic;733702
So u love satan too or what?

and my question doesnt violate the TOS like that avatar does. I'm glad u enjoy upside down crosses


You have understand it all wrong, Crumb's avatar has a Saint Peter's cros, he was crusified head down, so his cross is like in Crumb's profile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._Peter

Those pentagrams are symboling Christ's 5 wound or five senses of human, it might also protect Amiga.org against demons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram
.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Cosmos on May 06, 2013, 05:09:21 AM
Quake 3 is possible you mean ?




:)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on May 06, 2013, 05:55:36 AM
Quote from: Cosmos;733875
Quake 3 is possible you mean ?


Expect an A500 port any day now....
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on May 06, 2013, 06:00:39 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;733876
Expect an A500 port any day now....

Now officially you are joking!!!

To actually play Quake 3 or Quake 2 on an Amiga 500 with the same quality graphics of the original...will make me jump wagon and buy an A500! Heck even on a kickstart 1.3 But that my friend can only happen in dreams.

:)

No stick with other ports for the AGA system :D
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Crumb on May 06, 2013, 09:11:14 AM
Quote from: utri007;733723
You have understand it all wrong, Crumb's avatar has a Saint Peter's cros, he was crusified head down, so his cross is like in Crumb's profile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_St._Peter

Those pentagrams are symboling Christ's 5 wound or five senses of human, it might also protect Amiga.org against demons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram
.

Without the protection of my avatar moobunny's demons could enter amiga.org. It also keeps away disguised osx/linux users who claim to be amiga users (signing posts on an amiga forum claiming to use osx/linux is offensive!) ;-)


@Novacoder

do you think there's room to introduce more fixed point math?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on May 06, 2013, 09:25:36 AM
Quote from: Crumb;733881
do you think there's room to introduce more fixed point math?

I don't think that would help, I tried same trick with Quake 1 and it actually made it slower in places.

I've tuned it the best I can but without better tools this as good as we are going to get :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Karlos on May 06, 2013, 09:41:25 AM
Quote from: Crumb;733881
Without the protection of my avatar moobunny's demons could enter amiga.org. It also keeps away disguised osx/linux users who claim to be amiga users (signing posts on an amiga forum claiming to use osx/linux is offensive!) ;-)


It isn't very effective then, I guess. I mean, I've been using Linux (or rather GNU/Linux to be preceise) for many years ;)

Quote

@Novacoder

do you think there's room to introduce more fixed point math?


IIRC, at least on the 68060, the floating point unit is already faster for a lot of common arithmetic operations than fixed point would be, especially for multiplication which 3D transformation naturally uses a lot.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: matthey on May 06, 2013, 10:50:16 AM
Quote from: Karlos;733884

IIRC, at least on the 68060, the floating point unit is already faster for a lot of common arithmetic operations than fixed point would be, especially for multiplication which 3D transformation naturally uses a lot.


On paper, the 68060 integer MULS/MULU is 2 cycles while fp FMUL is 3 cycles. However, speed isn't just measured in the shortest timings. The integer MULS/MULU is pOEP only not allowing for parallel operations. The FMUL can operate in parallel with integer instructions (a characteristic of 68k coprocessors predating the 68060). A compiler with good instruction scheduling can usually do the most in parallel with mixed integer and fp. Sometimes no integer instructions during floating point instruction execution is possible though. Converting from fp to int and int to fp is 3 cycles. If the 3D engine is setup to use floating point then it's usually not worth trying to convert to fixed point but a properly designed fixed point 3D engine probably is faster even on the 68060. The lack of integer 32x32=64 bit makes fixed point more difficult and slower on the 68060 though.

P.S. I haven't seen a 68k compiler do proper instruction scheduling with FPU instructions. Frank Wille and I were talking about the possibility of adding to vbcc as well as improving the FPU support in general. I don't know if the poor code is the limiting factor or the cache sizes with complex 3D scenes. If the limitation is the code quality and not the caches, it may be possible to run Quake like engines at a lot better frame rate with an improved 68k compiler. Quake 3 would probably need GL support and a fast 68060 though ;).
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on May 07, 2013, 09:06:28 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;733693
v1.07 in action :)

[youtube]SNKk9tQwwjM[/youtube]


Looking good! :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on May 10, 2013, 09:10:06 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;733558
I'm still playing through the single player game (full retail version) and doing little tweaks here and there to the source code, I'll release it when I'm finished with it.  


Are you any closer to releasing the code yet?

Sorry to pester you but I'm dying to get my hands on it to see how you got it performing so well! :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on May 10, 2013, 10:24:41 PM
NovaCoder you are a legend :-) Now if I can only get Quake 2 to work with 32MB LOL
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on May 10, 2013, 10:29:05 PM
Quote from: Lurch;734451
NovaCoder you are a legend :-) Now if I can only get Quake 2 to work with 32MB LOL

I don't that is possible. I don't think NovaCoder or anyone as good as NovaCoder could achieve that...simply put because that is what the minimum requirements of this game anyways. Otherwise if he can manage that..then people who have games that requires 1 GB of RAM in a PC should be able to hack it to run at 256 MB of RAM or even 64 MB of RAM and I have not seeing that done in any computer history. It is really the physical programmer who programmed the game with their codes and optimization have reached to the minimum requirement of 64 MB of RAM.  64 MB of RAM is not so bad to be honest...it just matter of me getting the cash first then I can upgrade my Apollo to 64 MB of RAM.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on May 10, 2013, 10:34:34 PM
Was just having a laugh, have towered my A1200 now. So have the angled SIMM socket and a 32MB SIMM sitting here, just need to find someone to solder it for me as my skills at soldering is rather sad. :-(
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on May 10, 2013, 11:23:10 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;734454
I don't that is possible. I don't think NovaCoder or anyone as good as NovaCoder could achieve that...simply put because that is what the minimum requirements of this game anyways. Otherwise if he can manage that..then people who have games that requires 1 GB of RAM in a PC should be able to hack it to run at 256 MB of RAM or even 64 MB of RAM and I have not seeing that done in any computer history. It is really the physical programmer who programmed the game with their codes and optimization have reached to the minimum requirement of 64 MB of RAM.  64 MB of RAM is not so bad to be honest...it just matter of me getting the cash first then I can upgrade my Apollo to 64 MB of RAM.


Sell your Subway to pay for it. :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on May 10, 2013, 11:38:49 PM
Last nights gameplay ;)

[youtube]MX34Ju3SI3Y[/youtube]


Another 20Mhz and it would get really interesting.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: magnetic on May 11, 2013, 01:19:03 AM
Quote from: Lurch;734456
Was just having a laugh, have towered my A1200 now. So have the angled SIMM socket and a 32MB SIMM sitting here, just need to find someone to solder it for me as my skills at soldering is rather sad. :-(


Even if you were decent with a solder iron/gun something like that needs to be done by a solder tech with proper tools. Luckily there is alot of guys around here that fit that description :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on May 11, 2013, 01:19:56 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;734471
Last nights gameplay ;)

[youtube]MX34Ju3SI3Y[/youtube]


Another 20Mhz and it would get really interesting.

You are doing an excellent job!! Thank you so much NovaCoder :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: magnetic on May 11, 2013, 01:23:27 AM
Hey Nova
Once its in its final optimized state I think we should organize some online Quake2 aga tourney :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on May 11, 2013, 01:43:30 AM
Quote from: magnetic;734483
Hey Nova
Once its in its final optimized state I think we should organize some online Quake2 aga tourney :)

THAT IS EXACTLY what I was thinking too!! I just need to have that money to upgrade my Apollo 1260 from 32 MB to 64 RAM first before I can have the pleasure to join...arggh. But guys I can play on Strife...do you guys want to do tourney with me on Strife?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Lurch on May 11, 2013, 08:41:47 AM
Quote from: magnetic;734479
Even if you were decent with a solder iron/gun something like that needs to be done by a solder tech with proper tools. Luckily there is alot of guys around here that fit that description :)


Was thinking of sending it to Amigakit to have it done as they have done some great work in the past for me.

Was holding off until they had angled PCMCIA adapters in stock so I could do it all at once :-)

The postage time is the most annoying part being in NZ.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: lionstorm on May 11, 2013, 09:46:20 PM
Quote from: magnetic;734483
Hey Nova
Once its in its final optimized state I think we should organize some online Quake2 aga tourney :)


unlikely since to get a good framerate he removed all the extra stuff like multiplayer, AFAIK.
from the readme of AmiQuake2 on aminet :

Limitations:

1) No network or multi player support
2) No hardware 3D support
3) No RTG support
4) Only the original game and official expansion packs are supported
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on May 16, 2013, 09:57:07 PM
On the subject of making ancient hardware do 3d stuff it wasn't designed for, take a look at this masterpiece of coding wizardry! :)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=61298
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Crumb on May 16, 2013, 11:27:15 PM
@nicholas

not bad for a c64 although I was more amazed by smash design's versions of amiga&pc demos.

BTW, on an AGA miggy this smoothness is achieved using copper-synchronized c2p :-)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=56885

It would be nice to see some techniques like these in Q2-AGA
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on May 16, 2013, 11:57:24 PM
Quote from: Crumb;735245
@nicholas

not bad for a c64 although I was more amazed by smash design's versions of amiga&pc demos.

Oh of course, but real-time raycasting in 254 bytes @ <1MHz is amazing. :)

Quote
BTW, on an AGA miggy this smoothness is achieved using copper-synchronized c2p :-)
http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=56885

It would be nice to see some techniques like these in Q2-AGA

Very nice indeed and it would be nice to see these improvements on top of the stellar work Nova has achieved so far.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on May 17, 2013, 12:24:27 AM
Do you have the source for this copper assisted C2P?

:)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on May 17, 2013, 12:31:08 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;735250
Do you have the source for this copper assisted C2P?

:)


IRA? ;)

http://aminet.net/package/dev/asm/ira
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Iggy on May 17, 2013, 05:43:46 AM
Quote from: nicholas;735253
IRA? ;)

http://aminet.net/package/dev/asm/ira


What the heck does a reasembler do?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on May 17, 2013, 07:25:56 AM
I guess it changes compiled code back to assembler.   This doesn't do me much good though, I'd need some documented (and compilable) assembler code with ideally some kind of example code or usage readme at the very least.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: nicholas on May 17, 2013, 08:54:40 AM
Quote from: Iggy;735280
What the heck does a reasembler do?


Like a disassembler but the code it produces can usually be reassembled to an executable, this isn't always true for some disassemblers like Resource etc.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Crumb on May 17, 2013, 09:37:42 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;735250
Do you have the source for this copper assisted C2P?

:)


Well, it's not like 030s using copper to help with c2p but copper is used to choose between rendering and c2p. The time you have between one frame and the next one you can write to chipmem at maximum speed (7MB/s). In this short interval your copy to chipmem shouldn't be interrupted by the rest of the system or the system wouldn't make much sense, that's why disabling multitasking is usual with this technique (perhaps running your program with a very high priority like 127 helps, I don't know).

If you talk to Blueberry/Loonies he'll tell you that performing just a copy to chipmem is a waste of time because you can do more effects at the same time. And he's very right but both techniques aren't mutually exclusive so you probably can perform the copy in the short interval *and* apply some filters.

All in all you should organize your code to have 2 phases: one of rendering and another one of c2p (c2p one would include a pair of c2p functions, one that does c2p inside fastmem and the other that does c2p to chipmem).

Article by Rune Stensland (put special attention to the part titled "DMA Problem"):
http://membres.multimania.fr/amycoders/opt/fasttruec2p.html

This part is the one that you could implement:
Quote

I use 2 interrupts triggered by the copper, one when the frame starts, and one when the frame ends. Each time the interrupt is triggered I change state from c2p->effectrender or effektrender->c2p. Inside the interrupt I exgange all registres used by the current routine (a0-a7/d0-d7,PC,SR), the Program counter and status register changes are performed by writing to the supervisor stack, so when I RTE the system will automaticly change to the right PC,Sr)


You told me some time ago that you didn't want to shut down multitasking, if you have changed your mind Winden/Network offered me the sources a pair of years ago, I could ask him if he wouldn't mind sending you the sources to do that. Perhaps it's already in the sources he published of some his demos/intros.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: matthey on May 17, 2013, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: nicholas;735286
Like a disassembler but the code it produces can usually be reassembled to an executable, this isn't always true for some disassemblers like Resource etc.


Reassemblers are disassemblers that specialize in generating assembler code that can be assembled back to original with good accuracy. Resource is one of the most accurate (68k/Amiga) but requires manual changes (using it's gui/editor) for best results. IRA is not as good of a reassembler (despite any documentation claims) in my opinion. It will automatically identify more than Resource but isn't as accurate. It is a better general purpose disassembler with many useful options. The best automatic/smart reassembler for the Amiga is the updated ADis I have worked on:

http://www.heywheel.com/matthey/Amiga/ADis.lha

Most ADis disassembled system friendly 68k Amiga programs can be assembled with vasm and work. It's still good to look for problem areas as it's very difficult to determine whether small amounts of data are code or data. ADis needs some more improvements too.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on July 05, 2013, 03:31:51 AM
Someone found a little bug in the menu which I've now fixed in v1.09, I'll upload to AmiNet tomorrow.   I've also added the option to play back in mono and lower the mixing frequency (check the readme for more details).

[youtube]gWmpwGYM7ds[/youtube]
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on August 25, 2013, 04:26:55 AM
v1.10 running on my A1200 :)

This will be the final version.

New in this release:

1) Uses maths lookup tables
2) Small render loop optimizations
3) Fixed screen size
4) NTSC support added


[youtube]TS21EyNkRlw[/youtube]
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on July 08, 2020, 09:02:59 AM
I was asked to update some of my old ports to support the new Warp 1260 RTG card  8)

AmiQuake and AmiQuake 2 RTG version now available.


https://www.amigafrance.com/forums/topic/quake1/ (https://www.amigafrance.com/forums/topic/quake1/)
https://www.amigafrance.com/forums/topic/quake2/ (https://www.amigafrance.com/forums/topic/quake2/)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: ronniebeck on July 09, 2020, 07:41:47 PM
What needed to be done?  I would have thought it was already supported?   RTG is..........RTG.
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on July 10, 2020, 12:03:51 AM
Amiquake 1 and 2 didn't 'officially' support RTG, other authors had patched in RTG support to my old AGA builds.

These new builds also support a few extras and bug fixes :)
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: Crumb on July 10, 2020, 12:28:26 PM
Do you have a github or similar account with the sources?
Title: Re: AmiQuake 2 - new 68k Quake 2 Port
Post by: NovaCoder on July 10, 2020, 12:36:29 PM
Nope, just on my hard drive.

I'll upload them up to AmiNet soon like most of my ports.

Most of it is..

https://github.com/yquake2/yquake2 (https://github.com/yquake2/yquake2)