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Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Application questions and support => Topic started by: Michele31415 on January 18, 2012, 06:29:49 AM

Title: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 18, 2012, 06:29:49 AM
I was delighted to find this resource on the web for the Amiga.  First a bit of intro: I bought an Amiga 1000 when they first came out.  I then traded it for a 2000 when it came out.  I used it as my main machine until the mid 90's.  Now I want to bring it into the 21st century.

It originally had an A2088 Bridgeboard that I rarely used.  I then added an 8-Up memory board with 8 meg.  Last year I added an A2630 with 4 meg., a CD drive, a 2 gig. hard drive, a Deneb USB board, an Xsurf 3cc Ethernet board, and I upgraded everything to OS 3.9.  So far so good.

When I added the A2630, I jumpered out half the 8-Up board to keep the total of fast RAM at 8 meg.  I then discovered that the Bridgeboard wouldn't work with more than 6 meg. fast RAM installed so I removed the 8-Up entirely.  That's when the problems started.

Now when I boot, as soon as the WB screen appears, all of my fast RAM seems to be in use.  Avail shows 2 meg. of chip RAM (I also put in a Megachip 2000) and 4 meg. of fast RAM (all coming from the A2630), but only about 700 bytes of that are shown as free.

Is there a PC-like Task Manager program that will show me who's using all this RAM right out the gate?  Do I need some cryptic command in my startup-sequence?  What could be causing this?  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I hope I've posted this to the correct forum.  If not, perhaps a moderator could move it wherever is more appropriate.  Thanks.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: carvedeye on January 18, 2012, 10:00:47 AM
Well i have amigaos 3.9 on my system (a1200t) and i have my desktop set at 256 colors which uses up a lot of fast ram so that could be one of the reasons, what resolution are you using on your desktop as this may also be the problem what are you using for your display?
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: smf on January 18, 2012, 10:37:32 AM
check how many buffers you'r partitions have
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 18, 2012, 08:19:23 PM
Quote from: carvedeye;676387
Well i have amigaos 3.9 on my system (a1200t) and i have my desktop set at 256 colors which uses up a lot of fast ram so that could be one of the reasons, what resolution are you using on your desktop as this may also be the problem what are you using for your display?
Thanks for the reply.  I'm using NTSC Hi-Res interlaced, 724x482, 16 colors.  I'm displaying that on an ancient 19" Ramtek CRT with a long-persistence phosphor.  It looks quite lovely, although one of my projects is to switch to a flat panel - but that's another story.

Anyway, after checking this, it says I have 1 meg. of chip free and 9 bytes of fast mem free.  After switching to Lo-Res, I got 720 bytes fast ram free, 4,193,584 max, 4,194,304 in use.  So I don't think the display mode is the trouble.

I then tried a "boot with no startup-sequnce".  This drops me into something called the "ROM OS".  Doing an avail here, I get

            avail      in-use      max
chip    2007312    88816   2096128
fast    3322576   871728   4194304

So next I tried putting the 8-up board back in.  This time (still in hi-res mode) I get:

            avail      in-use       max
chip    1755920   340208   2096128
fast    3762112  4626496   8388608

That looks right (I guess).  8 meg. total fast ram, four of which come from the 2630 and 4 from the 8-Up.  I can now do stuff like load the Ethernet but now the Bridgeboard won't start (because of the 6 meg. fast RAM limitation).  Anyway, it looks like the problem is still there.  I'm guessing that a freshly booted 2000 running no programs other than WB should not already be consuming 4 meg of fast ram, even running OS 3.9, yes?

Unless anyone has a better idea (there's nothing like Task Manager for the Amiga?) I guess my next step will be to try pulling the Deneb board and then the Xsurf board to see if one of them is hogging my ram.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 18, 2012, 08:20:54 PM
"check how many buffers you'r partitions have"

I'm sorry, but one of my problems is simply remembering what all the Amiga commands were.  Can you tell me how I would check this?  Thanks.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: zipper on January 18, 2012, 09:02:08 PM
type addbuffers in Shell or CLI window
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 18, 2012, 09:09:33 PM
Thanks!  I have two 3.5" hard drives - the original 105 meg. Quantum Prodrive and a new 2 gig drive.  They both report 30 buffers.  Is that bad?
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: zipper on January 18, 2012, 09:29:18 PM
No it's the default, taking just 30k total so it's something else; should look at your startup-sequence. This could help,too - but it isn't too good behaving in all cases:
http://main.aminet.net/pub/aminet/util/boot/startmem.lha (Aminet seems to be down)
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Thorham on January 18, 2012, 09:48:22 PM
Quote from: zipper;676466
should look at your startup-sequence
And the user-startup file, and the contents of the wbstartup drawer in SYS:. All these contain things that get run at boot time, and there could be some things in there that eat memory (quite likely, actually).
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 01:47:01 AM
Thanks for the pointer to startmem.  Sounds like what I need.  Aminet still seems to be down but I found a copy here: http://piotrkosoft.net/pub/amiga/aminet/util/boot/  (http://piotrkosoft.net/pub/amiga/aminet/util/boot/)
 
 It un-lha'ed OK, but when I type "execute startmem_install", it said
 
 "(complete: Unknown command
 (complete failed return code 10"
 
 and then just returns to the command prompt.
 
 Any idea what that's all about?
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 01:49:14 AM
The wbstartup has three things in it: AmiDock, DefIcons, and rawbinfo.

startup-sequence is pretty standard:

PsdLoadModule DEVS:input.device QUIET ;Added by Poseidon-Installer
; $VER: Startup-Sequence_HardDrive 45.1 (25.11.00)
; Startup-Sequence for hard drive systems

If Exists C:IDEFix
  C:IDEFix
EndIf

C:SetPatch QUIET

C:Version >NIL:
C:AddBuffers >NIL: DF0: 15
FailAt 21

C:MakeDir RAM:T RAM:Clipboards RAM:ENV RAM:ENV/Sys
C:Copy >NIL: ENVARC: RAM:ENV ALL NOREQ

Resident >NIL: C:Assign PURE
Resident >NIL: C:Execute PURE

Assign >NIL: ENV: RAM:ENV
Assign >NIL: T: RAM:T
Assign >NIL: CLIPS: RAM:Clipboards
Assign >NIL: REXX: S:
Assign >NIL: PRINTERS: DEVS:Printers
Assign >NIL: KEYMAPS: DEVS:Keymaps
Assign >NIL: LOCALE: SYS:Locale
Assign >NIL: LIBS: SYS:Classes ADD
Assign >NIL: HELP: LOCALE:Help DEFER

BindDrivers
C:Mount >NIL: DEVS:DOSDrivers/~(#?.info)

C:LoadMonDrvs

;IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors
;  IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
;    DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
;  EndIF

;  C:List >NIL: DEVS:Monitors/~(#?.info|VGAOnly) TO T:M LFORMAT "DEVS:Monitors/%s"
;  Execute T:M
;  C:Delete >NIL: T:M
;EndIF

SetEnv Language "english"
SetEnv Workbench $Workbench
SetEnv Kickstart $Kickstart
UnSet Workbench
UnSet Kickstart

C:AddDataTypes REFRESH QUIET
C:IPrefs
C:ConClip

Path >NIL: RAM: C: SYS:Utilities SYS:Rexxc SYS:System S: SYS:Prefs SYS:WBStartup SYS:Tools SYS:Tools/Commodities

SYS:System/REXXMast >NIL:

IF EXISTS S:User-Startup
  Execute S:User-Startup
EndIF

Resident Execute REMOVE
Resident Assign REMOVE

C:LoadWB
EndCLI >NIL:

---------------------------------------------------------------

And this is my user-startup:

;BEGIN AsimCDFS
echo "Mounting AsimCDFS..."
assign AsimCDFS: "SYS:AsimCDFS"
assign AsimCDFS_Buffer: "FS3:AsimCDFS_Buffer"
mount >NIL: CD0:
;END AsimCDFS
;BEGIN Genesis
assign AmiTCP: "FS3:Internet/Genesis"
;END Genesis
;BEGIN ViNCEd
; Remove the ; default console handler CON:
; Entfernen Sie das ; die Standardkonsole CON: verwenden wollen.

;SetVNC Quiet Mount Override as CON:

; Remove the ; gadgets with new functions from ViNCEd that can be set with prefs tool ViNCEd.
; Entfernen Sie das ; Fähigkeiten von ViNCEd in Texteingabefeldern wollen. Diese konfigurieren Sie
; auch mit dem Voreinsteller ViNCEd.

;StringSnip >NIL: INSTALL

; Remove the ; assigns in pattern matching commands.
; Entfernen Sie das ; Unterstützung der mehrfach Assign in Dateinamensmustern wünschen.

;TrueMultiAssigns
;END ViNCEd
;BEGIN Poseidon
ENVARC:PsdStackloader
;END Poseidon
;BEGIN MUI
if exists "QDH0:MUI"
   assign MUI: "QDH0:MUI"
   if exists MUI:Libs
      assign add LIBS: MUI:Libs
   endif
   if exists MUI:Locale
      assign add LOCALE: MUI:Locale
   endif
   version >nil: exec.library 39
   if not warn
      if exists MUI:Docs
         if exists HELP:dummy ; do not remove
         endif                ; this entry!
         assign add HELP: MUI:Docs
      endif
   endif
endif
;END MUI
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: itix on January 19, 2012, 06:01:54 AM
Check your ENVARC: and delete old prefs files you don't need anymore.

But if you are really having Poseidon, MUI and OS 3.9 installed it sounds about right. You could get rid of 3.9 and use Kickstart 3.1 instead, though.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: J-Golden on January 19, 2012, 07:15:51 AM
I agree with Itix, those programs will eat quite a bit of memory.  Going back to OS3.1 will be the easiest way to free up memory.

That and getting away from Ami Dock.  Never liked it anyway...
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 07:23:39 AM
"if you are really having Poseidon, MUI and OS 3.9 installed it sounds about right"

Oh! [sheepish look]  So is this one of these cases where the reason I can't find what's wrong because there isn't anything wrong?  I didn't realize that those items might actually use up that much memory.

Maybe the answer then is to jumper the 8-Up board to provide just 2 meg.  That would give me a total of 6 meg which would still let me use the Bridgeboard (which I'm using to help debug another retro project - an old 386-SX) but still provide 2 meg to run the Amiga side.

Or is there some code I can run to fool the system into thinking it's only got a certain amount of fast ram?  Then I could just leave the 8-Up board as is.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: matthey on January 19, 2012, 07:25:29 AM
Scout is probably the best Amiga task and resource snooping program...

http://aminet.net/util/moni/Scout_os3.lha

Mounting CD0: could use some memory if ACTIVATE=1.

Quote from: itix;676503
Check your ENVARC: and delete old prefs files you don't need anymore.


Or installing Happy Env (recommended) will free up more memory...

http://aminet.net/util/sys/envhandler.lha
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 07:25:41 AM
"That and getting away from Ami Dock.  Never liked it anyway..."

Well as a matter of fact, I don't like it either and I have no idea how it got in there.  How do I get rid of that?
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 07:29:49 AM
"Scout is probably the best Amiga task and resource snooping program...

http://aminet.net/util/moni/Scout_os3.lha

Mounting CD0: could use some memory if ACTIVATE=1."

Thanks!  I've downloaded those and will try them out tomorrow.  It's getting late and I think I've had enough fun for one day :-)

Thanks to everyone for their most helpful thoughts so far on this.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: zipper on January 19, 2012, 07:52:42 AM
Quote from: Michele31415;676511
"That and getting away from Ami Dock.  Never liked it anyway..."
Well as a matter of fact, I don't like it either and I have no idea how it got in there.  How do I get rid of that?


Just move it out from WbStartup so it doesn't start.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: matthey on January 19, 2012, 08:34:53 AM
Quote from: Michele31415;676509

Maybe the answer then is to jumper the 8-Up board to provide just 2 meg.  That would give me a total of 6 meg which would still let me use the Bridgeboard (which I'm using to help debug another retro project - an old 386-SX) but still provide 2 meg to run the Amiga side.


That might work. The original 68000 was very limiting in address space so only 8MB was designated to Zorro II space. The A2630, 8-up, Bridgeboard and any other boards in your Zorro II slots all want to share that same space. Many other accelerators, like GVP, have a jumper to address it's memory outside of Zorro II space which is physically possible because the 68030 has a much larger address space and it's memory doesn't have to go through the Zorro II bus. Unfortunately, C= didn't make very good accelerators. You will have to squeeze all your memory into that 8MB address space unless you upgrade to a more advanced accelerator.

Quote from: Michele31415;676509

Or is there some code I can run to fool the system into thinking it's only got a certain amount of fast ram?  Then I could just leave the 8-Up board as is.


No. I don't think it's possible. The 4MB on the A2630 with 4MB on the 8-up is all that the A2630 supports according to the original documentation. There may be a hack or ROM upgrade for the A2630 to map it's 4MB outside of Zorro II space that I don't know about. It would also be possible to add a ACCESS 32 or DKB 2632 ram expander and disable the 4 MB but it would probably be just as cheap and easier to find a better accelerator (maybe with SCSI and supporting 16MB+ outside Zorro II space) as they are pretty cheap now days. You might list your location to see if anyone local has better "cheap" hardware.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 08:52:23 PM
Thanks very much for the knowledgable opinion.  As it happens, I also have a fully populated DKB2632 that I have yet to install.  For the moment, I'm still wringing out all the new stuff I've added to the original configuration.

The one piece of additional hardware I'd still like is a graphics card so I can use a larger monitor.  I'm really used to my dual 1920x1200 monitors on my PC.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 08:55:30 PM
Well I downloaded Scout but when I went to install it I got this error:

Quote
"MUI MList object '0x0046A7E0' have found that the real stacksize of the task 'Shell Process' is only 4096 bytes.

The minimum stack size for MUI programs is 8 Kb, and it's probably better to set it to 10 Kb, 12 Kb or 16 Kb...

MList object creation will fail until you'll set a correct value for it."

OK, fine.  The only thing missing here is how to do that.  Help!
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Boot_WB on January 19, 2012, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: Michele31415;676595
Well I downloaded Scout but when I went to install it I got this error:



OK, fine.  The only thing missing here is how to do that.  Help!


Hi Michele,

If you select Scout's icon, and open the icon information (iirc, right click on the icon, select information from one of the menus - possibly the 'icon' or 'file' menu - can't remember).

Stacksize is one of the fields in the icon information dialog box, you can change it from 4096 to 8192 (or 16384, or... etc). Click 'save' in the dialog box, and you're done.

Regards


Rich
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 09:14:45 PM
Am I running the install file wrong or something?  I'm just saying "execute filename" and getting this error.

And I just tried installing something else and got the same error.  And why do these script files have their commands enclosed in parentheses like Lisp statements???
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 19, 2012, 09:36:57 PM
"Stacksize is one of the fields in the icon information dialog box, "

Hmm - not for me.  I got icon information dialog box open, but all it has in it is the name "Tooltypes:" on the left next to a big empty box on the right.

Update: never mind.  I had been trying to run Scout from a Shell window.  When I opened it by clicking its icon, it worked just fine.  And a most impressive tool it is too.  This is almost as good as SIW for the PC.  Thanks very much matthey for recommending this.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: motrucker on January 19, 2012, 11:14:33 PM
Quote from: Michele31415;676601
"Stacksize is one of the fields in the icon information dialog box, "

Hmm - not for me.  I got icon information dialog box open, but all it has in it is the name "Tooltypes:" on the left next to a big empty box on the right.

Update: never mind.  I had been trying to run Scout from a Shell window.  When I opened it by clicking its icon, it worked just fine.  And a most impressive tool it is too.  This is almost as good as SIW for the PC.  Thanks very much matthey for recommending this.

Did no one suggest SnoopDOS to find your problem.? I still use it, but Scout may a better choice (It's been awhile since I used it.
The fact the 3.9 is a real memory pig really pops up on an A2000. You might be better off dropping back to 3.1.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 20, 2012, 01:54:10 AM
No, I didn't know about SnoopDOS.  But for the time being, I'm going with the theory that I really am using 4 meg. running 3.9.  I guess I'll just boot my 3.1 from a floppy when I want to use the Bridgeboard.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Thorham on January 20, 2012, 02:04:32 AM
Quote from: Michele31415;676642
I guess I'll just boot my 3.1 from a floppy when I want to use the Bridgeboard.
If 3.9 doesn't have anything you need, then going back to Workbench 3.1 completely would be advisable.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: matthey on January 20, 2012, 02:21:10 AM
Quote from: Michele31415;676593
Thanks very much for the knowledgable opinion.  As it happens, I also have a fully populated DKB2632 that I have yet to install.  For the moment, I'm still wringing out all the new stuff I've added to the original configuration.

The DKB2632 should solve the memory problems. Remove the 8-up and your good to go.

Quote from: Michele31415;676593
The one piece of additional hardware I'd still like is a graphics card so I can use a larger monitor.  I'm really used to my dual 1920x1200 monitors on my PC.

The Picasso 4 is the best card for a 2000 as it has excellent performance and a flickerfixer/scandoubler but it's very expensive. I have a friend who has a Cybervision 64/3D in his 2000 (with 68030) that works well and reasonably fast (P96) but it's a 2 monitor/switched setup. Most gfx cards will use valuable Zorro 2 space on a 2000. 1920x1200 is a bit high for these older cards but should be possible in 8 bit with 4 MB gfx memory. You might consider replacing your whole Amiga with an fpga Amiga like the fpga Arcade or Natami too. They should have better gfx support built in (AGA, ff/scandoubled much faster, etc).

Quote from: Thorham;676644
If 3.9 doesn't have anything you need, then going back to Workbench 3.1 completely would be advisable.

A gfx card is a good reason to stay with 3.9. He should have the ram with the DKB2632 too. I wouldn't go back.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Tenacious on January 20, 2012, 03:25:11 AM
I wonder if you're not exceeding the 8 Meg (16-bit, Zorro2) memory limit with your 8-Up, A2088, X-Serf, Deneb USB, etc.  Everything in the Zorro2 slots must fit in that address space.  I think Matthey is right, try it without the 8-Up card.

I think even SysInfo will show the address space each card tries to take.  It should also show how much 16-bit Chip ram, 16-bit Fast ram and 32-bit Fast memory is installed.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 20, 2012, 06:03:29 AM
Thanks guys.  Those are all good suggestions.  Tomorrow I'll see if I can nail down the address space question and then I'll try replacing the 8-Up with the DKB2632 and see what that does.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: itix on January 20, 2012, 06:21:42 AM
Quote from: matthey;676646
A gfx card is a good reason to stay with 3.9. He should have the ram with the DKB2632 too. I wouldn't go back.


What 3.9 offers to gfx cards?
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: zipper on January 20, 2012, 07:46:14 AM
Candy?...
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Gilloo on January 20, 2012, 10:51:01 AM
Quote from: Michele31415;676372

It originally had an A2088 Bridgeboard that I rarely used.  I then added an 8-Up memory board with 8 meg.  Last year I added an A2630 with 4 meg., a CD drive, a 2 gig. hard drive, a Deneb USB board, an Xsurf 3cc Ethernet board, and I upgraded everything to OS 3.9.  So far so good.

Is the A2088 still present in your Amiga ?
It takes 2MB of ZII 16bit memory space (and drain 1,5 A).
Remove it physically, please :)
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: matthey on January 20, 2012, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: itix;676662
What 3.9 offers to gfx cards?


Yes, candy, nicer looking icons and improved datatypes for RTG. It can all be added to 3.1 but 3.9 has other improvements and doesn't require mixing and matching later libraries or as many fixes/hacks (beyond CGFX or P96).
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: itix on January 20, 2012, 02:59:15 PM
Quote from: matthey;676695
Yes, candy, nicer looking icons and improved datatypes for RTG. It can all be added to 3.1 but 3.9 has other improvements and doesn't require mixing and matching later libraries or as many fixes/hacks (beyond CGFX or P96).


There isn't much candy in 3.9. Ok, 3.1 lacks even more candy but it is not that difficult to download same wallpapers and icons from Aminet.

Enhanced datatypes are automatically installed with RTG software.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 21, 2012, 07:18:05 AM
"The DKB2632 should solve the memory problems. Remove the 8-up and your good to go"

Ding!  You got it!  I feel kind of silly now because I was holding off  on adding the 2632 until I figured out the 8-Up vs. 2088 issue, but the  solution all along was to simply pull the 8-Up and add the 2632.  Doh!  I  now have a mountain of fast ram and the Bridgeboard still works.  Check  it out:

(I tried to post a screen shot here but I guess I don't know how to do that - it came out as text and I had to remove it - anyway, the number is 123730944)

I know it seems a bit silly to get so excited over 112 meg of ram when  my PC has 4 gig, but somehow seeing a 9 digit number of the Amiga is  very cool.  Thanks to everyone who helped me out with this one.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: Michele31415 on January 21, 2012, 07:22:35 AM
Quote from: Gilloo;676679
Is the A2088 still present in your Amiga ?
It takes 2MB of ZII 16bit memory space (and drain 1,5 A).
Remove it physically, please :)
N'avait pas besoin.  I know the 2088 seems like a dog, but it's actually useful, if for nothing other than its ability to read my collection of 5.25" floppies.
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: actung_bab on January 21, 2012, 12:14:13 PM
my trick on my amiga 1200 is to excute comand amiga key E
Type avail flush return
this flush any spare memory back , i have to do this for running my bbs
After programs finished loading and i kill the gui in mimai as well
I found hardware hacks txt file on aminet mentioned this as well on amiga 2000
Title: Re: What's eating my RAM?
Post by: actung_bab on January 21, 2012, 12:20:41 PM
Also the 2000 acually runs faster with 020 as its sligtly faster than 1200 one and
Aga slows the sytem slighty no biggy though
I just put another ram card in the 2000 there cheap to buy of ebay
You can steal ram chips of scsi cards also or 500s l belive if you got free slots on your 2091 or ram card

ps i prefer fish n chips not ram and chips