Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Recommended Amiga Dealers => Topic started by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 03:30:30 PM

Title: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 03:30:30 PM
I got fedup with Amigakit.eu today.

I ordered two Amiga Internal Floppy Drive (A1200/A600)  (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=294) from them ofcourse expecting to get original Amiga floppy drives, but what do I get instead... I get modified PC drives that I could have done myself and none of them fits to my Infinitiv Tower, which should work with original amiga drives.

Nowhere was it mentioned that these drives are modified PC and yet Amigakit refuses to refund me or addmit their mispresentation of their item. They should be upfront that these are modified PC drives. Would have saved me over 40 euros. Even if they magically decide to refund me it doesn't really mean much as it costs me almost 40 euros to ship them back and they said they refund shipping fees.

I could be fine if they could even give me a 20 euros for these drives without sending them back...


 :madashell:  :madashell:  :madashell:  :madashell:  :madashell:  :pissed:  :pissed:  :pissed:  :pissed:  :pissed:
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 03:38:40 PM
The site says:

Quote
Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary.


Is there any source of *new* Amiga branded or built-as from the factory Amiga only drives in 2008?  Also maybe some people don't know how or don't want to modify PC drives themselves?  (I'm asking as I have no idea).
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Colani1200 on December 29, 2008, 03:42:20 PM
- Do the drives read NDOS disks (games and the like)?
- Does the eject button fit in the A1200?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: mongo on December 29, 2008, 03:44:00 PM
Quote

ffastback wrote:
The site says:

Quote
Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary.


Is there any source of *new* Amiga branded or built-as from the factory Amiga only drives in 2008?  


If there isn't, the site should say "Amiga compatible internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600.", not "Amiga internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600."
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 03:50:11 PM
Quote
If there isn't, the site should say "Amiga compatible internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600.", not "Amiga internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600."


Thank you for understanding my point :) They even seem to have "new" A1200 systems at stock so I assumed these are old stock all which would qualify as brand new if never used or opened from the package.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 03:56:27 PM
Quote

mongo wrote:

If there isn't, the site should say "Amiga compatible internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600.", not "Amiga internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600."


Probably should for the utmost clarification.  But it does say the mechanism may vary which seems to indicate that. We are talking about 16 year old machines here.  Like I said though I don't know much about these drives in the first place, so maybe my idea on what the expectation should be is off.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 04:00:50 PM
Drive mechanism can vary in original Amigas also, but they weren't just simple PC drive "hack" jobs like this drive is.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 04:06:58 PM
Quote

They even seem to have "new" A1200 systems at stock so I assumed these are old stock all which would qualify as brand new if never used or opened from the package.


They state those new 1200s are NOS though.  Which they don't on the floppy drives.  Seems you both could have done better, you should not have assumed.  And Amigakit could have been a little bit clearer on their webpage.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: weirdami on December 29, 2008, 04:34:49 PM
mechanism isn't the same as form-factor.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Dwyloc on December 29, 2008, 04:37:33 PM
The last Amiga A1200 made by Amiga Technologies also used modified PC driver rather than Amiga ones so its possible that is what you have been supplied.

As such they would be real A600/A1200 drives just to the same as the Commodore supplied ones, not that that really helps you.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 29, 2008, 04:39:42 PM
I'm not familiar with the Infinitiv tower (I have a abould of Elbox towers), so why don't they fit?

In fairness, their ad does state A1200/A600 internal which suggests that the fit inside the A1200 and A600 desktops, but what stops them being mounted in your tower?  Are they longer or just don't fit the faceplate?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 04:40:25 PM
Quote

weirdami wrote:
mechanism isn't the same as form-factor.


Based on how its written I would say these drives should be expected to fit A600 and A1200 cases perfectly.  If not thats a big problem.  In this case this user has a third party case it sounds like.

Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 29, 2008, 04:42:09 PM
Surely this would have been the option for you:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=106
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 04:52:05 PM
Quote

Darrin wrote:
Surely this would have been the option for you:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=106


Nice its even cheaper than what he originally bought.   :-D
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 04:54:43 PM
Quote

Darrin wrote:
Surely this would have been the option for you:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=106


Nope Infinitiv Tower doesn't accept standard 3.5" floppy drives with faceplate, atleast not mine :( the eject button is the problem (Infinitiv tower has its own faceplate with own eject button and dust shield, to my understanding the eject button is placed to that it would fit perfectly to a original Amiga floppy drive). After little digging could be that original A1200 Panasonic drive is the only one that fits perfectly. Doesn't really matter if I would have gotten an original Amiga drive then fine my mistake if it didn't fit, but surely I wouldn't have wasted my money one these when I have countless of PC drives at my home that can easily be modified... I expected original A1200 drive and I didn't get one.

The real problem here is that Amigakit isn't willing to compensate me in any way.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 05:15:52 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:

The real problem here is that Amigakit isn't willing to compensate me in any way.


Wouldn't they compensate you by taking the drives back and refunding the purchase price?  You did make an assumption when you ordered that could have been easily addressed if you had asked them about it ahead of time.  The listing dosen't say NOS anywhere on it.  Its listed for machines from 1992.  And they say mechanisms may vary.  If those drives fit in A600 and A1200 cases and work as Amiga drives did then the most anyone can say is that it would have been nice if they used additionally, the word "compatible" in the listing.  It sounds like you want to keep the drives anyway but get 20 Euro back.  Why should they agree to that?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 05:19:43 PM
I don't want to keep those drives I'd like to send them back but it costs almost 40 euros for me to send them back so what is the point really when they won't refund shipping for me? Nor did they say they would take them back as according to them they have not mispresented their product... I don't like the fact that they can mispresent their products like this and then just wash their hands with it.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 05:24:42 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:
I don't want to keep those drives I'd like to send them back but it costs almost 40 euros for me to send them back so what is the point really when they won't refund shipping for me? Nor did they say they would take them back as according to them they have not mispresented their product...


How much your post office charges is hardly their problem.  And are you saying they refuse to take them back?  Because it sounds like instead you are carefully wording it that they did not explicitly offer to do so in conversations you have had with them so far.

Especially based on their posted return policy (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/shipping.php) its important to be very careful as to what you order and ask questions first.  As it only seems to address faulty items.  But I think they should meet you half-way and take them back for a refund of the items themselves.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 05:33:32 PM
Yes they will take them back if faulthy product or mispresented, but according to them it isn't and they wont take it back.

Yes I know hardly their problem what my post office charges, well actually it is since their fault in the first place. A company should pay all the return fees if product is not what promised etc. Why do you think MS is paying for the warranty shipments? We have this thing called REILU MEININKI here in Finland and this isn't one of those cases by a long shot ;)

I guess I will sell these here with proper discription of the item and get what I can. After this avoid dealing with shops like Amigakit in the future.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 05:46:49 PM
Quote

Dwyloc wrote:
The last Amiga A1200 made by Amiga Technologies also used modified PC driver rather than Amiga ones so its possible that is what you have been supplied.

As such they would be real A600/A1200 drives just to the same as the Commodore supplied ones, not that that really helps you.


So it sounds like there is no such thing as a "real" Amiga drive.  So long as it fits in the A600 and A1200 case and reads and writes Amiga floppies then.  
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 29, 2008, 05:50:39 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:
Yes they will take them back if faulthy product or mispresented, but according to them it isn't and they wont take it back.

Yes I know hardly their problem what my post office charges, well actually it is since their fault in the first place. A company should pay all the return fees if product is not what promised etc. Why do you think MS is paying for the warranty shipments? We have this thing called REILU MEININKI here in Finland and this isn't one of those cases by a long shot ;)

I guess I will sell these here with proper discription of the item and get what I can. After this avoid dealing with shops like Amigakit in the future.


I understand your frustration, but I don't think you can blame Amigakit.  These are A1200/A600 drives and they have to come with buttons that match the A1200/A600 desktop eject holes.  I've fitted 2 A1200 motherboards to Elbox towers and one of those drives (original to the A1200) didn't fit the faceplate correctly and I had to do some cutting and sanding.  Meanwhile the other one was perfect.

Now, if you had said in your order that you wanted these drives to fit in your particular make of tower then I'd back you 100%.  The advert says they're A1200/A600 drives, they are A1200/A600 drives and I can understand why a small niche company like AmigaKit doesn't want to eat the shipping costs.

They promised an A1200/A600 drive and you got one.  They didn't promise a drive that would fit into a certain tower.

That other drive I linked to doesn't say in the description that it won't fit into an A3000D.

Looks like you've both lost out here.  You've lost some cash and they've lost a good customer.  :-(
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 29, 2008, 05:52:44 PM
Quote

ffastback wrote:
Nice its even cheaper than what he originally bought.   :-D


Yep, it's not a bad price at all.  I wonder if it will work as a high density drive in my A4000.  It might be worth having one as a back-up.  :-)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amigakit on December 29, 2008, 06:12:07 PM
We have stated that we will accept the drives back for a refund of the product price (but not the shipping costs).  

We were originally requested to refund the full price of the goods without customer even returning them to us (because they did not meet the customer's requirements).

The drives are not sold to accomodate third party tower systems- if we had known they were for an Infinitiv tower, we could have provided a compatible solution before shipping the items, at no extra cost to the customer. We are happy to provide bespoke customisations to products before dispatch.

We didn't expect to receive abusive/offensive emails from this customer.

Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: twizzle on December 29, 2008, 07:34:11 PM
i have agree with amigakit on this.
if you cannot see what you want or need then there only a phone call away  :-)

its no use buying something that you think will fit just because it looks right.
do like i do, if in doubt phone.
mathew is only to glad to help out  :-D
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Ruud on December 29, 2008, 07:39:49 PM
Quote

amigakit wrote:
We have stated that we will accept the drives back for a refund of the product price (but not the shipping costs).  

We were originally requested to refund the goods without customer returning them to us (because they did not meet the customer's requirements).

The drives are not sold to accomodate third party tower systems- if we had known they were for an Infinitiv tower, we could have provided a compatible solution before shipping the items, at no extra cost to the customer. We are happy to provide bespoke customisations to products before dispatch.

We didn't expect to receive abusive/offensive emails from this customer.



I work in retail here in the UK and that sounds reasonable and within consumer law (UK).  It's a shame the drives didn't turn out to be right but in Painkiller's position, considering they needed to fit a particular case I would blame myself for not asking before ordering them.  As a retailer it is very hard to cover every single base when offering goods for sale.  Consumers will often presume things that never occur to yourself.  

Cheers,
Rudi.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 07:46:21 PM
Just to make things clear. I don't exactly see where Amigakit is offering me refund.

Antti Jarvinen on 2008-12-29 04:39:13
Hi,
I'm not pleased at all to see that the internal A1200/A600 are not original parts. I can modify my own drives if I want (which I have plenty in my corners). This drive doesn't suit the original infinity tower which requires original drives to support the eject button on infinity tower. That is 43 euros wasted for nothing. What sall we do, it costs me about 40 euros to ship them back...

Regards,
Antti Jarvinen



Customer Services (Matthew) on 2008-12-29 05:32:34
The floppy drive buttons are in the same position as the original drives.



Antti Jarvinen on 2008-12-29 05:49:00
Doesn't really help as Infinity Tower uses the orginal metal part of the eject button which differs drastically from PC drives. This drive won't fit in Infinity Tower. It should be mentioned that these are modified PC drives. Would have saved me the trouble and money. Now how will you refund me as it is clear that it doesn't make any sense to ship these items back?



Customer Services (Matthew) on 2008-12-29 05:52:32
We do not offer refunds unless the items are returned to us in good condition as per our terms of sales and returns as displayed on our webstore and when you checkout and agree to terms of sales/returns.


Antti Jarvinen on 2008-12-29 06:00:15
Fine. I will ship these drives back and expect full refund including shipping. The product is clearly misrepresented on your website. Could you give me address for returns so I can ship these back?


Customer Services (Matthew) on 2008-12-29 06:05:43
We do not refund shipping charges. The item is not misrepresented - it is a floppy drive for an A1200/A600- exactly as described:

"Amiga internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600.

Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary."

If you email us before ordering - we are happy to advise on compatibility and answer any questions you have. We advise customers to do this if they wish to check details.


Antti Jarvinen on 2008-12-29 06:15:37
It doesn't say anywhere that these are modified PC drives. If you sell an internal amiga floppy drive, one would expect it to be used with original amiga parts, but as is this drive doesn't even support the original A1200 eject button if one likes to use it nor is this drive compatible with Infinity Tower. I was expecting a fully compatible A1200 internal drive and I got this POS PC drive which I could modified myself.


Customer Services (Matthew) on 2008-12-29 06:28:10
There are no specific Amiga 880K floppy drives parts - Commodore and Escom/AT all used PC floppy drives modified to work with the Amiga- sometimes with jumpers, sometimes with hard wiring.

The A1200 floppy button varied in design depending on whether the A1200 had an Epson, Chinon, Teac, Panasonic or Sony drive. The Teac drives even featured three different designs of eject button.

The description does not confirm compatibility with the Infinitiv tower system- it specifies the Amiga 1200 or 600 as the suitable computers.


[here is where I lost it]
Antti Jarvinen on 2008-12-29 06:46:01
Be upfront and mention that the are modified PC drives. {bleep} I wouldn't have bought them if I knew it. Merry xmas to you assholes and your {bleep}ty customer service.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: broken on December 29, 2008, 07:56:18 PM
Painkiller,

You sound a bit like an asshole in your communications with Amigakit. They are being polite and courteous and offering a refund minus shipping costs and you are using every opportunity to swear and be pig headed about things.


How in the world would it cost you 40 euros to ship them back?



Perhaps if you simply emailed or called them ahead of time, all this trouble could have been avoided?


 
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 08:04:37 PM
@Painkiller

I have to agree with Broken.  All you did by posting your communication exchange was verify that Amigakit was fair and courteous.  

Quote
There are no specific Amiga 880K floppy drives parts - Commodore and Escom/AT all used PC floppy drives modified to work with the Amiga- sometimes with jumpers, sometimes with hard wiring.

The A1200 floppy button varied in design depending on whether the A1200 had an Epson, Chinon, Teac, Panasonic or Sony drive. The Teac drives even featured three different designs of eject button.

The description does not confirm compatibility with the Infinitiv tower system- it specifies the Amiga 1200 or 600 as the suitable computers.


Unless someone can dispute what they say above they sold you what they said they were selling.  Its seems you are so angry about the money and your foolishness not to ask that you are childishly taking it out on Amigakit instead.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 29, 2008, 08:09:23 PM
@broken
I know I got carried away there, but my first support request was reasonable and I asked them that what shall we do and how do they reply me... Well read it your self. Just put your self in my shoes. I have been waiting a long time to put my Infinitiv Tower back together and then I see these drives and know that the Infinitiv is designed to acommodate internal A1200 drive. Oh well the Infinitiv tower isn't perfect either, but still this product is not what it is supposed to be.

Absolute minun that I could send would be 26,40 euros. Doesn't really make sense even then. As priority mail it would cost 43,10 euros. Yes I know freaking Itella and their prices :( It is cheaper for me to order stuff from Hong Kong to my door step than to send the same package inside Finland, so that my friend can pic it up from the nearest post office. Funny thing is Itella is the one who delivers the package that comes from Hong Kong :)

@ffastback
Drives that came with Amiga didn't have dremel cut upper shell or cut and glued together eject button to fit A1200/A600 case. These drives have. Simple mention that these are modified drives is all that would have been needed, but they don't give you that info on the page as a consumer I have the right to know this without further inquery. It is like buying a new car from a store and asking if it has been crashed and then repaired...
Title: /
Post by: Lorraine on December 29, 2008, 08:31:43 PM
/
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 29, 2008, 08:34:44 PM
Quote


@ffastback
Drives that came with Amiga didn't have dremel cut upper shell or cut and clued together eject button to fit A1200/A600 case. These drives have. Simple mention that these are modified drives is all that would have been needed, but they don't give you that info on the page. It like buying a new car from a store and asking if it has been crashed and then repaired...


I'm into classic cars Painkiller.  And what you have here is a classic computer.  Lets take a fairer comparison.  Like say a disc brake conversion kit for an old car.  Unless a seller says NOS on a disc brake kit for a car you have to assume thats its derived from something else.  Often that means from another type of car, but machined to fit yours.  Just because its been modified for a specific application does not make it used, so long as they used all new source component parts.  Now you may think they did a shoddy conversion, or that their source vendor did.  But thats a different issue, one that is *not* one of misrepresentation.  And why would you send back priority mail?  Just so you can sound like it will cost more to get it back to them?  Geez!

Amigakit also has already told you that plenty of OEM drives were modified units of PC core parts with a variety of eject button placements.  So this gives you even less of a leg to stand on.  It means you assumed not only these were NOS on your own with no reason to, but you also assumed all A1200 and A600 drives would be the same and hence fit.  Your later research that you probably need a Panasonic specifically is the research you should have done in the first place.  What exactly were the chances that they would have been sending you Panasonic units without even asking?

This dosen't even touch on the fact that your have a custom case.  And in the drag racing hobby when you start doing stuff on custom frames you learn to ask as many questions as you can upfront on any parts you need.  A good place to start would have been with the maker of the case.  And then you could have bounced what they had to say off of Amigakit.  And then avoided this whole mess entirely.

And if modifying a PC drive is such a walk in the park for you and if money is so tight why did you not just make a drive yourself?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amiga_3k on December 29, 2008, 08:40:32 PM
If the site had stated that they were modified PC drives to fit the A1200/A600... would that have stop you from ordering the drives? I would then have assumed that they were modified to be a 100% replacement. But, as stated before, if you've got special kit the drive has to be fitted into (the Infinitv tower is special) then it would have never hurt to have asked.

You should compare this situation with something like this:

Say, you own a Skoda Fabia like this one

 (http://www.elf8.nl/jpg/fabia_small.jpg)

edit: oversized image, will shrink it
edit: shrinked

and let's assume you damage one of those Lexus-look rear-lights. Now, you call the local Skoda dealer and ask for a replacement rear-light of your Skoda Fabia. He politely askes for the year of built, if it's a left or right unit and within a few days you get what you asked. Only to find out that it is the bog-standard version he send you. Can you blame the dealer for delivering the standard version?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Colani1200 on December 29, 2008, 08:46:00 PM
@amiga_3k

Finally I'm starting to enjoy this thread.  :lol:

Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: broken on December 29, 2008, 08:50:14 PM
Quote

amiga_3k wrote:
You should compare this situation with something like this:

Say, you own a Skoda Fabia like this one
http://cz.elf8.nl/dag3/images/033.jpg



Ok, thread needs to stop right here and we need to discuss this important matter.

Who the {bleep} would honestly drive a monstrosity like that?

I mean, thats beyond ghetto.


I think posting that image should almost be a bannable offense.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amiga_3k on December 29, 2008, 08:52:11 PM
Quote

Colani1200 wrote:
@amiga_3k

Finally I'm starting to enjoy this thread.  :lol:



Luckily, it's not my car. Spotted it in Prague this year.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amiga_3k on December 29, 2008, 08:53:18 PM
Quote

broken wrote:



Ok, thread needs to stop right here and we need to discuss this important matter.

Who the {bleep} would honestly drive a monstrosity like that?

I mean, thats beyond ghetto.


I think posting that image should almost be a bannable offense.  :crazy:


It does kind of display the issue :-D
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Andeda on December 29, 2008, 09:13:13 PM
Guys stop for a moment.. i have to get some popcorn and a beer.
Ok, now im ready  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Zac67 on December 29, 2008, 10:14:24 PM
Boy - is that car bad for the eyes...  :egad:

back to topic:
I can't see anything wrong in how Amigakit handled the issue - and I can't really imagine having to pay +20€ for a small parcel from Finland to UK either...
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: save2600 on December 29, 2008, 10:25:23 PM
@ broken:

Here in the midwest, lots of teens/kids with confused ethnic orientations "soup" up those tiny "rally" cars all the time. Even more offensive than the way they dress themselves, they have more money tied up in "ghetto blaster" like subwoofers that vibrate their cheaply made and overpriced "bling" they stuck all over the car. 'Blaring' doesn't even describe the word for how loud they insist on playing that repetitive ghetto garbage they call "music". To make matters even worse, they'll also do away with the quiet factory exhaust and stick on a larger, shinier POS that makes their {bleep}box even more offensive. As if we couldn't already see and hear them coming. It's a trashy urban cultural phenomenon to be sure and I do not see positive social change happening any time soon. In cases such as this, where tackiness is now accepted and rampant, and class and common courtesy are all but obsolete, I cannot simply say: "to each, his own". These kinds of kids *need* to either be dispatched to their own worthless isle or reprogrammed.

Sorry for the hijacked thread, but since Andeda is sitting back with his popcorn and beer...  lol
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Damion on December 29, 2008, 10:40:41 PM
Quote

Who the {bleep} would honestly drive a monstrosity like that?


Indeed... I'd take my "old man" W126 any day over that hideous POS... ;-)

Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 05:45:03 AM
@amiga_3k
Yes it would have stopped me from ordering as I have plenty of PC drives in my conrners that I can modify. As I mentioned before the Infinitiv Tower should accept internal Amiga drive so why ask? It didn't make any sense and it doesn't make any sense that the seller doesn't mention in anyway that these are modified PC to fit A1200 case and read  Amiga discs. Come to think of it last time I asked something from Amigakit was the EZ Z4 Tower if it can take G-REX busboard and never got an answer... Needless to say didn't buy it.

I would have asked for a Lexus-look rear-light. Didn't ask an Infinitiv Tower floppy drive, because internal A1200 drive should fit in it.


@ffastback
None of the drives that came with Amigas were dremel jobs... These are. Buyer should know if the drives are modified PC drives do you not agree (it is not something that one should ask for to know)? How would you feel if I were to sell you an Amiga and not mention what custom hacks I have done on it.


@Amigakit
I apology for my hars words. I will sell these drives here to avoid any further hasle. Could you be so kind and make your item discription more accurate?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amiga_3k on December 30, 2008, 08:13:00 AM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:
@amiga_3k
Yes it would have stopped me from ordering as I have plenty of PC drives in my conrners that I can modify. As I mentioned before the Infinitiv Tower should accept internal Amiga drive so why ask? It didn't make any sense and it doesn't make any sense that the seller doesn't mention in anyway that these are modified PC to fit A1200 case and read  Amiga discs. Come to think of it last time I asked something from Amigakit was the EZ Z4 Tower if it can take G-REX busboard and never got an answer... Needless to say didn't buy it.

I would have asked for a Lexus-look rear-light. Didn't ask an Infinitiv Tower floppy drive, because internal A1200 drive should fit in it.



Point taken :-).

On a more serious note, is there a difference in moulding / case between the 'Escom' A1200s and 'Commodore' 1200s? It's not a secret that the Escom Amigas came with modified PC drives and I can't believe they were all cut to fit. I seem to remember that 'back in the days' not all 'official' internal Amiga floppy-drives would fit the Infinitiv.

I think selling the drives and get yourself fitting units is the best solution. If I had a spare original laying here you could have it for free, but unfortunately I haven't.

What still interests me is, how do these drives not fit? Maybe just a small extra modification could make these drives also fit Infinitiv towers? Amigakit could then make that extra modification a standard so that an even broader audience could be served.

Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 08:38:49 AM
If I recall correctly the drive I had in the tower before was a Panasonic drive and the eject button had a lenghtier metal part that was alligned with the correct eject button position for A1200 case. In Infinitiv Tower it went inside the eject button and worked perfectly. I don't think that Amigakit could  premodify these drives so that they wuold work correctly with Infinitiv case, what they can do is mention that it needs extra work and that these drives are hand modified. The plastic eject button on these drive can be made to retro fit inside Infinitiv Eject button, but the aligment isn't as straight forward.

I just want Amigakit to correct their discription for these drives. Would of been nice if they would have compensated me in some way, but I see now that it is just easier for me to sell these.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amigakit on December 30, 2008, 09:25:32 AM
Thank you for your feedback.

After reviewing the product description, there are no amendments to be made IMHO.

The drives are clearly sold for the A600 and A1200 and that is exactly what they do.  Unfortunately, we can not exhaustively list every possible permeatation that these drives can possibly be used with (outside of the scope of what their advertised use is).  By nature, the Amiga market has a healthy home-brew DIY scene where A1200 are often fitted into many different third party tower systems.  

We encourage customers to contact us (email/fax/support ticket/phone call/pmail) and we will be happy to help answer technical queries.  
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: jj on December 30, 2008, 09:54:39 AM
I have to agree with amigakit on this one.

@ Painkiller you seem to be stating facts about the tower working with all A1200 internal drives as if its fact when you were not even aware that there were several different versions, and sizes and eject buttong configs etc on A1200 drives.

I think the fault lies completley with you, and as someone else said you are taking out your own frustrations on the supplier.

Do you know how to mod a PC drive then ???  Its not just a case of making it fit the case, thats for sure.

But I am sure you know that right ?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: wurzel on December 30, 2008, 10:29:27 AM
All I can say is, "Caveat Emptor" - let the buyer beware.

In other words, if you order something you haven't checked out with the supplier, it's your fault.

AmigaKit offered to give you a refund for the drives, but not for shipping. This is entirely normal practice with ANY supplier you care to look at.

The drives were sold as A600/1200 compatible - not Infinitiv compatible, which is entirely different. And, IIRC, ALL Amiga drives are modified PC drives, though I stand to be corrected on that one.

I have used AmigaKit many times, the service is excellent, as standard. If you had asked questions prior to buying, you would have saved both of you a lot of grief.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 11:30:26 AM
@JJ
Yes I know how to mod a PC drive. Done plenty of them. Still feel that Amigakit should mention that these are modded PC drives with cut upper shell and cut + glued together eject button to position with A1200 and A600 eject button hole.

NONE of the Amiga drives back then were modified in this manner. They all had factory made upper shells and eject buttons.

@JJ & Amigakit
Tell me one reaseon why shouldn't a consumer who is about to buy this product know these things upfront?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: jj on December 30, 2008, 12:00:41 PM
Mainly because its of no importance.  The drives do what they say.  They are replacement drives to fit in an A600 or A1200 case.  Nothing more, nothing less.

It does not say commodore or escom etc drives.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 12:23:16 PM
And yet in this case it would have been important. I wouldn't have bought them. I would have know directly that these drives aren't going to fit directly. Be it that they had send me an "original" drive that wouldn't have fit then yes my bad and stupid Mikronik with their tower design.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 01:11:11 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:

@ffastback
None of the drives that came with Amigas were dremel jobs... These are. Buyer should know if the drives are modified PC drives do you not agree (it is not something that one should ask for to know)?



Since some of the OEM drives from Amiga in these machines were modified PC drives in the first place you argument holds no water, at all.  You've reduced yourself to saying that the modification method used should have been described for the product.  Since when does every product you buy come with a description of the manufacturing process??  What should it say?  Should it be like this:  "unlike Amiga who cut PC drives with metal shears to modify them for Amiga use, we use a dremel!".  Get real!  Amigakit may not even be the modifier vendor.

Quote
Didn't ask an Infinitiv Tower floppy drive, because internal A1200 drive should fit in it.


Which was an assumption on your part obviously.  If it needs the Panasonic and only Panasonic drives as you surmised earlier in this thread thats what you needed to ask about, you needed to ask if the drives Amigakit sold are exactly the Panasonic drives or like them in all dimensions, including the eject button.   Your lack at taking responsibility for your own actions is astonishing.

Quote
How would you feel if I were to sell you an Amiga and not mention what custom hacks I have done on it.
 When buying a 17 year old machine, which may have been through multiple owners, you learn to ask first Painkiller.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 30, 2008, 01:17:33 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:
@JJ & Amigakit
Tell me one reaseon why shouldn't a consumer who is about to buy this product know these things upfront?


I'll tell you why, because the onus was on you to ask questions when you decided to buy a product to use it outside of the original casing and for a different purpose other than the one advertised.

Here's a personal example:

A long time ago I wanted a Region Free DVD player and I settled on a particular model.  However, that model came in several revisions and only one had the older firmware that could be made region free.  The only way you could tell them apart was on the box because the bar codes of the revisions were different.

Now, no website I could find advertised these with details of the firmware revisions because it didn't matter.  These were sold as Region 1 DVD players for use in the USA, just like those drives you bought were advertised as A1200/A600 drives for use in the wedge desktop cases.  It was down to me to make sure that I got a correct model player to fit my purposes just like it was down to you to make sure that you got a drive that would suit yours.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: klx300r on December 30, 2008, 01:41:59 PM
Quote

Darrin wrote:
Quote

Painkiller wrote:
@JJ & Amigakit
Tell me one reaseon why shouldn't a consumer who is about to buy this product know these things upfront?


I'll tell you why, because the onus was on you to ask questions when you decided to buy a product to use it outside of the original casing and for a different purpose other than the one advertised.......


I have to strongly agree with Darrin on this one guys...a simple email or phone call could have solved this problem IMHO.. :-?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: stefcep2 on December 30, 2008, 01:50:30 PM
In Aus, Consumer Laws say that the product "must be fit for the purpose".  Ofcourse we now have consumers who interprate this to mean "fit for any purpose that i want to use it for".  And that my friend is what you are doing: the item is fit for the purpose of working in an A1200, but you want it fir for the purpose of it working in a third party case that is clearly not an A1200.  Saying IF you knew that it wouldn't fit in your third party case that's not an A1200 you wouldn't have bought is irrelevant, because AmigaKit didn't know you were going to fit into that third party case and never said it could fit into the third party case.  
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Argo on December 30, 2008, 02:32:29 PM
@Painkiller

They are selling a drive that will fit in an Amiga 1200 case. So, it doesn't fit in a tower case. They never stated that it would. Only that it would work with an A1200 in standard case.

Actually, I need a floppy drive for my A1200. Been trying to shoehorn a drive from an A3000. The floppy works but it's just a tad too tall to fit in the case.
Want to trade? That is if you think it will fit!
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 04:14:08 PM
I modified the other drive to fit and the second I will sell inside A1200 that I will put together.

The problem really here isn't wheter it would fit or not, but I should have know upfornt that these are same drives I can manufacture my self pretty easily without asking the seller. How hard is it to write these are modified PC drives... For some this product is worth the price but to me it wasn't and I'm not happy because the product discription isn't totally honest.

I expected an original Amiga part which wouldn't include cutsom modifications, but actually factory made parts. This was not mentioned in the product discription in any way. If they would have been these and wouldn't have directly fit my Infinitiv Case I would have been fine with it.

I'm amazed how easily stores could sell products that are in some ways modified etc. and not told in the discription and some of you guys would be fine with it...  How would some of you guys feel if I created a MAC from custom parts installed OSX in it, fit it in MAC case and then sell it as a MAC. Hey it does job exactly like a MAC so it must be a MAC and screw you if you didn't bother to ask if it is a real MAC from Apple factory parts.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amiga_3k on December 30, 2008, 04:26:51 PM
@Painkiller:

The hassle would start as soon as the 'Mac' would stop working after some sort of system update by Apple :-).

Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 04:47:07 PM
Sorry mate not my faulth you should have asked before you bought it...  :-P
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: xeron on December 30, 2008, 04:53:04 PM
I have to say, i side with Amigakit here. They sell drives for A600/A1200. The drives work inside an A600/A1200. If you want to use them in something else, you should have checked first.

Its your own fault, really.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 04:57:50 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:

The problem really here isn't wheter it would fit or not, but I should have know upfornt that these are same drives I can manufacture my self pretty easily without asking the seller.


Why?  How the hell would Amigakit know about your abilities to modify PC drives when all you did was order through his website without speaking to him?  And even if he did know about your abilities that dosen't mean squat.  I can cook a steak myself, but sometimes I want a restaurant to do it for me anyway because I don't feel like cooking.  You are being ridiculous.

Quote
How hard is it to write these are modified PC drives...

Easy, yes.  Necessary?  No.  Are extra details nice?  Yes.  Are they required?  No.  If you want to or need to know more, what do you do?  Ask!

Quote
For some this product is worth the price but to me it wasn't and I'm not happy because the product discription isn't totally honest.


Thats a bunch of bull that its not honest.  Have you been blaming others for your own mistakes your whole life?  Not honest would be if he said NOS and/or OEM, which he did *not* do.  You are really going out of your way to try to damage his rep unfairly.  You don't see that at all?

Quote
I expected an original Amiga part which wouldn't include cutsom modifications, but actually factory made parts.


Why?  Again it does not say OEM or NOS anywhere.  You already admitted earlier you made an ASSUMPTION because you saw he sells NOS 1200 complete computers that these were NOS too.  That was YOUR incorrect assumption and your fault and your problem.  End of story.

Quote
I'm amazed how easily stores could sell products that are in some ways modified etc. and not told in the discription and some of you guys would be fine with it...


The "modification" is part of the product.  When Ford built the 1969 Talladega they took rear Torino bumpers and cut them in half, welded in a middle peice of metal, grinded down the welds, chromed them and then stuck them on the brand new Talladegas for front bumpers.  So the rear bumper was as sent to them by their supplier.  But the front bumper was not.  Now is it a Talladega bumper?  Of course it is.  Now if I have a Talladega missing a front bumper today and someone says they are selling front Talladega bumpers and it does not say OEM or NOS, if I care if it is I better ask.  Otherwise I should assume they did the same thing Ford originally did.  And if they are created today to work, is it a Talladega bumper?  Yes it is.  Just not a NOS or OEM one.

But on the other hand if I take a Torino and then take a bunch of parts to make it look like a Talladega and try to purposely pawn it off as an *original* Talladega from Ford (like in your Macintosh example) then thats fraud.  Thats not what Amigakit did.  And its really sad you are trying to make it sound like Amigakit did something like that to you.





Title: /
Post by: Lorraine on December 30, 2008, 04:58:12 PM
/
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: dannyp1 on December 30, 2008, 04:58:31 PM
Darrin says:

"I'll tell you why, because the onus was on you to ask questions"

It kinda reminds me of Doomy selling a1200's on EBay and not mentioning that they were Pal and not NTSC.  When complaints started coming in his response was "If you wanted to know if they were NTSC or PAL you should have asked".  If the item is different than what one might assume it to be I'm not so sure that the seller shouldn't state that in the description.
As far as Painkiller, I think he got a little carried away and there is no excuse for vulgar language in emails. None.

As for Amigakit, I don't think that it was too much for them to change the description a little so no one else would ever be confused again.  I don't think they can say the description is perfect as at least one paying customer was confused by it.  A truly customer oriented business has to push personnel feelings aside.  That being said, I have ordered many items from Amigakit and had no problems at all.  I have always been happy with our dealings.

Dan
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 05:10:14 PM
Quote

Lorraine wrote:

If A600/1200 drives work in that Tower then why shouldn't a drive he orders to replace A600/1200 ones work with it also.


Painkiller has since admitted not all original A600/1200 drives work in that custom tower.  The tower design did not take into account the many different drives that came with A600s and A1200s over time.  Because he is mad at himself for not figuring that out ahead of time he is trying to find something else to {bleep} about so that its someone else's fault.  Thats the bottom line.

Quote

AmigaKit don't have to modify anything on their ads but why not? They know now the drives don't work in that Tower so they could either leave a note saying that or actually state what the drives are - modified PC drives rather than original Amiga ones.


They don't say that they are original Amiga drives and they list what their application is for, that being an original A600 or A1200 case.  Thats all they are saying the drives work with.  Once you start listing things it dosen't work in then you become responsible to figure out and list EVERYTHING it will not work in, and maybe you don't have that info.  If everything sold had to be like that then every product listing would be 50 pages long listing all the things it dosen't work with.  Thats silly.  If you have a custom case ask before you order.  

(And as a P.S., its been mentioned by Amigakit, that several original Amiga drives were modified PC drives, but again he never claimed what he was selling were NOS or OEM)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: maffoo on December 30, 2008, 05:14:14 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:

I'm amazed how easily stores could sell products that are in some ways modified etc. and not told in the discription and some of you guys would be fine with it...  How would some of you guys feel if I created a MAC from custom parts installed OSX in it, fit it in MAC case and then sell it as a MAC. Hey it does job exactly like a MAC so it must be a MAC and screw you if you didn't bother to ask if it is a real MAC from Apple factory parts.


I suspect that "Macintosh" is a trademark so Apple would sue you into oblivion :-)

A better analogy would be if you bought an off-the-shelf graphics card for a Windows machine and flashed the firmware to make it work in a Mac* then sold it as a Mac graphics card - it would be up to the buyer to check it was compatible with their specific Mac (eg. making sure they had the right slot in their machine) before buying it.


*Not sure if this is necessary nowadays, but I'm sure it was in the PPC days.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 30, 2008, 05:15:01 PM
@ DannyP1:

Should AmigaKit also list that they won't fit up his ass either, just in case he wanted to install the drive in his rectum?  ;-)  :-D
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 05:16:28 PM
Quote

Darrin wrote:
@ DannyP1:

Should AmigaKit also list that they won't fit up his ass either, just in case he wanted to install the drive in his rectum?  ;)  :D


No because he does not have his rectum measurements Darrin (or at least I seriously hope not!)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: J-Golden on December 30, 2008, 05:17:59 PM
I think someone will flame me for this, but whatever!

This dude has my luck, getting what was listed but not what was wanted.  I LOVE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS!!!  My biggest joy in life is trying to make things work that shouldn't or weren't thought of before hand.

If I were this dude/dudet, yes I would be anoyed at first, but then I'd be looking at the drive, the case, and my dremmel with an evil grin on my face thinking all kinds of cool ways to mount that drive...
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 05:20:20 PM
Quote

J-Golden wrote:

If I were this dude/dudet, yes I would be anoyed at first, but then I'd be looking at the drive, the case, and my dremmel with an evil grin on my face thinking all kinds of cool ways to mount that drive...


Would you be annoyed at yourself, or at the company?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 30, 2008, 05:21:37 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:
I modified the other drive to fit and the second I will sell inside A1200 that I will put together.

The problem really here isn't wheter it would fit or not, but I should have know upfornt that these are same drives I can manufacture my self pretty easily without asking the seller. How hard is it to write these are modified PC drives... For some this product is worth the price but to me it wasn't and I'm not happy because the product discription isn't totally honest.

I expected an original Amiga part which wouldn't include cutsom modifications, but actually factory made parts. This was not mentioned in the product discription in any way. If they would have been these and wouldn't have directly fit my Infinitiv Case I would have been fine with it.

I'm amazed how easily stores could sell products that are in some ways modified etc. and not told in the discription and some of you guys would be fine with it...  How would some of you guys feel if I created a MAC from custom parts installed OSX in it, fit it in MAC case and then sell it as a MAC. Hey it does job exactly like a MAC so it must be a MAC and screw you if you didn't bother to ask if it is a real MAC from Apple factory parts.


Phew!  Well I'm glad that you managed to make them work.

I still think that it is unrealistic to expect companies to sell "new" replacement drives that are exactly like the mk1 drives that came with the original Amiga model when it was released when they have not been maufactured for over a decade.

Even in the days of the A2000 there were various companies supplying their own "non-Commodore" internal drives as cheaper options and they were sold as "Amiga drives".  Selling non-Commodore drives for Amiga computers has been going on for 20 years.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 30, 2008, 05:25:46 PM
Quote

J-Golden wrote:

I'd be looking at the drive, the case, and my dremmel with an evil grin on my face thinking all kinds of cool ways to mount that drive...


PERVERT!   :-o

 :lol:
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: motorollin on December 30, 2008, 05:26:43 PM
Quote
Painkiller wrote:
I'm amazed how easily stores could sell products that are in some ways modified etc. and not told in the discription and some of you guys would be fine with it...  How would some of you guys feel if I created a MAC from custom parts installed OSX in it, fit it in MAC case and then sell it as a MAC. Hey it does job exactly like a MAC so it must be a MAC and screw you if you didn't bother to ask if it is a real MAC from Apple factory parts.

But that's not what happened. If you want want to use a different computer as an analogy, a more accurate one would be this:

User buys a Mac Mini.
User decides to put the Mac Mini's guts in to a different case.
User buys a part designed and advertised for a Mac Mini
User whinges when it doesn't fit in the non-standard case.
User complains that the non-standard case is allegedly compatible with the part they have ordered. Apple inform him that the parts they sell are compatible with the original case, but cannot guarantee that they will fit in anything else due to variation in their own parts, and the fact that they do not manufacture non-Apple equipment.

Whose fault is this? Is it Apple's, for not listing every single piece of equipment that the part will or will not fit, or is it the user's for assuming it will work in something for which it is not advertised?

--
moto
Title: /
Post by: Lorraine on December 30, 2008, 05:26:48 PM
/
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 30, 2008, 05:28:46 PM
Quote

ffastback wrote:
No because he does not have his rectum measurements Darrin (or at least I seriously hope not!)


LOL.  He could have got a set of outside calipers for Xmas...
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amigakit on December 30, 2008, 05:34:08 PM
Both Commodore and Escom used 'PC' modified drives (either through jumpering or hard wiring).  We have 11 different models and variations of drives from these companies that were supplied in Amigas over the years.

We have sold hundreds of our drives since 2004 and had no negative feedback from our customers.

We list them with the words "Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary." and that is accurate.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 05:40:21 PM
Quote

Lorraine wrote:

This still doesn't mean Matt couldn't put a little note in bold/8point/times at the very bottom of the ad simply saying "this is a modified PC drive", unless he's worried it'll somehow put people off buying it, but then that's dishonesty in itself.


Products are often an amalgamation of parts from various vendors and often go through various manufacturing and/or re-manufacturing processes to become the final end-user product.  Did the owners of the Amiga brand on the A1200s and A600s that came from the factory with modified PC drives call them that or point that out on those particular units?  No.  Why?  Because they fit in the case, they read and write the proper disks in the proper format, and their eject button works.  Same thing here.  To the uneducated saying such could cause un-necessary confusion, and until someone says different that fact means nothing to what the product does.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 05:40:38 PM
@Amigakit
Did any of the modified "original" Amiga drives have custom shell modifications.

No.

If it was mentioned that these are modified PC drives would I have directly know that they wont directly fit for my purpose.

Yes.

Could it have been an original drive that wouldn't fit my purpose.

Yes. That would have been my bad.

Do I think it is misleading to sell these as just Amiga parts, yes because they aren't the same as the original drives be it that some of the original drives were made from PC drives, but all with factory parts.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Andeda on December 30, 2008, 05:46:23 PM
@painkiller

Does this drive work in a A500? if it does i could buy one of them from you.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 05:51:53 PM
It doesn't work in A500. I have figered out a use for it already. All is fine and tandy now oh well apart from the description of the drive over at Amigakit, but I have done what I can.

It is up them now, but I gues they will leave as it is. Hopefully no one else will be misguided by their description.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 05:57:16 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:
Did any of the modified "original" Amiga drives have custom shell modifications.

No.


So what?  He never claimed they were original.

Quote

If it was mentioned that these are modified PC drives would I have directly know that they wont directly fit for my purpose.

Yes.


Actually no.  Since you yourself admit not all original drives fit (something you figured out later).  That means it was (without asking) pot luck if they would happen to match the exact dimensions of the kind of original Amiga drives that did fit in your custom case.  They may just happen to match the dimensions of a original Amiga drive that does not fit your custom case, or they may be different than anything else.  Since he never said they were OEM or NOS so long as they fit properly in an A600 or A1200 case they have done their job.

Quote
Could it have been an original drive that wouldn't fit my purpose.

Yes. That would have been my bad.


It could have ended up being a modified PC drive that would have fit your purpose too.  Your response here is immaterial.  He never said they were original drives.

Quote
Do I think it is misleading to sell these as just Amiga parts, yes because they aren't the same as the original drives be it that some of the original drives were made from PC drives, but all with factory parts.


So even though he never said they were OEM, or original, or NOS.  You want him to list "made in a factory with the following equipment xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx, dremel".  
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 06:09:31 PM
Quote
So what? He never claimed they were original.


They never claimed they weren't. They know for a fact that these are modified PC drives they should tell it IMHO

Quote
Actually no. Since you yourself admit not all original drives fit (something you figured out later). That means it was (without asking) pot luck if they would happen to match the exact dimensions of the kind of original Amiga drives that did fit in your custom case. They may just happen to match the dimensions of a original Amiga drive that does not fit your custom case, or they may be different than anything else. Since he never said they were OEM or NOS so long as they fit properly in an A600 or A1200 case they have done their job.


There isn't a PC drive that wouldn't require further modification to fit this case. So I would have known.

Quote
It could have ended up being a modified PC drive that would have fit your purpose too. Thats immaterial. He never said they were original drives.


No it couldn't have atleast I don't know any PC drive that would have the metal part of the eject button positioned same as it was in the truly original Amiga drive. Don't remember if it was manufactured by Panasonic or someone else. They had PC version of these drives but the metal part of the eject button was different from the Amiga one.

Quote
So even though he never said they were OEM, or original, or NOS. You want him to list "made in a factory with the following equipment xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx,xxx, dremel".


There was no dremel cut shells for Amiga drives that were modified from PC ones. They had pressed metal parts and moulted plastic parts.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 06:21:31 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:

They never claimed they weren't.


You aren't a little kid in a schoolyard anymore (at least I think).  Start thinking and acting like an adult.  You want every vendor on this earth to list everything a product isn't?  Warning this hammer is not a screwdriver!  Warning this car is not a pickup truck!  Warning, this new stretch limo started off as a regular car at one point!  Warning, this Saleen Mustang started off as a regular Mustang at one point!

Quote

 They know for a fact that these are modified PC drives they should tell it IMHO


They are Amiga drives just like they say.  If you plugged them into a PC they would not work right.  Their manufacturing process is slightly different than some others that came before it to become a Amiga drive.  So what?

Quote

There isn't a PC drive that wouldn't require further modification to fit this case. So I would have known.



When you ordered it you made the bad assumption that any drive that can fit in a A1200 case can fit in your custom tower case.  So you are making a bold unsubstaniated statement there.  And you got sold an Amiga drive.  The fact that at one point during its manufacture it could possibly have been used as a PC drive if someone so chose is immaterial.


Quote

No it couldn't have atleast I don't know any PC drive that would have the metal part of the eject button positioned same as it was in the truly original Amiga drive.


All the more reason you should have asked some questions.

Quote

There was no dremel cut shells for Amiga drives that were modified from PC ones. They had pressed metal parts and moulted plastic parts.


So what?  So friggin what?  Really?  So what?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 06:32:32 PM
Quote
You aren't a little kid in a schoolyard anymore (at least I think). Start thinking and acting like an adult.


See we are all human.

Quote
You want every vendor on this earth to list everything a product isn't?


No, I want them to list for what it is.

Quote
When you ordered it you made the bad assumption that any drive that can fit in a A1200 case can fit in your custom tower case. So you are making a bold unsubstaniated statement there. And you got sold an Amiga drive. The fact that at one point during its manufacture it could possibly have been used as a PC drive if someone so chose is immaterial.


When I ordered I didn't remember that not all A1200/A600 drives were the same. I taught this was exactly like the one I had in the tower before as it wasn't mentioned that this drive is a modified PC drive made to work in Amiga

Quote
All the more reason you should have asked some questions.


Didn't come to my mind at the point that someone would sell a modified PC drive and not mention about it.

Quote
So what? So friggin what? Really? So what?


Build quality? Already had troubles getting one of the drives out from the 3.5" bay as one off the sides on the upper shell had bend to a wrong position during this modification process and I didn't notice it.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 06:55:52 PM
Quote
Didn't come to my mind at the point that someone would sell a modified PC drive and not mention about it.


I want you to try to look at this from Amigakit's perspective for a second.  Here is a guy that knows a lot about Amiga.  He knows there were 11 different OEM drive mechanisms at various times in Amiga history for these models.  Some were purpose built as Amiga only drives through the whole manufacturing process.  Some were not and equated to being PC drives at some point during the manufacturing process.

From his informed perspective he is not selling anything different at all.  And from his perspective he is trying to be informative to his customers upfront by saying the drive mechanisms may vary.  Maybe the next batch won't have the dremel cut for instance for all we know.

You are pissing on the reputation of someone who is generally highly regarded by the community and seemed to be trying to do the right thing, both in his description and in his willingness to take the drives back even though its not in his return policy that he needs to.  You are not being reasonable.  Worse, there is every indication he would have answered any and all questions you might have posed honestly, if you had bothered to take the time.

You are buying parts in what is almost 2009 for a 1992 machine.  Amigakit's average customer is not so naive and they are not a big company like Walmart to just absorb any costs just to make you 100 percent happy even though you are in the wrong.

Quote
When I ordered I didn't remember that not all A1200/A600 drives were the same.


Your problem, not theirs, and something they would have been happy to educate you on had you asked them it seems.

Quote
Build quality? Already had troubles getting one of the drives out from the 3.5" bay as one off the sides on the upper shell had bend to a wrong position during this modification process and I didn't notice it.


Thank the heavens.  Maybe there is a possibility that you will see this as a separate issue.  You think that the build quality is bad due to the dremel work thats fine and a fair opinion to hold.  And a fair one to complain about.  So long as you don't mask it like you have been as something else.  But listing that these drives at one point were PC compatibles would not tell you the build quality.  This issue has nothing to do with how they list the product on the website.  Its not a misrepresentation issue.  A fair thing for you to do would have been to complain to Amigakit on the quality issue and have seen what they had to say about that first, just between the two of you.  And worst case if they told you to piss off (or simply left if unresolved to your satisfaction), then you could have posted a friendly heads up to all on the board that you don't think the build quality of the current drives they sell is so great as a heads up.  Thats a entirely different thing then what you did.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: PaSha on December 30, 2008, 07:19:25 PM
Let's toss some fuel on the fire :)

Quote

amigakit wrote:
Both Commodore and Escom used 'PC' modified drives (either through jumpering or hard wiring).  We have 11 different models and variations of drives from these companies that were supplied in Amigas over the years.

Commodore used off the shelf DD drives. These drives could be jumpered to work with Amigas and PC's. (so no, these were not "PC specific" drives).
Commodore probably ordered enough drives to have them delivered pre-jumpered for Amiga (as 'DS0' with 'Ready' and 'Diskchange' in the right place etc).

In the 90's, most floppy drive manufacturers began cutting costs by replacing the jumpers with surface mounted links, so that you'll have to do some soldering and/or messing around with wires in order to make them work in an amiga.

Amigakit's drives are probably modified HD drives?

Quote

We list them with the words "Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary." and that is accurate.


The descrition as of this moment:
Quote

Amiga internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600.

Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary.

This description, specifically that it says 'Amiga internal drive' leads me to believe that this is in fact an Amiga branded drive. (The difference between 'brand new' and 'NOS' aren't necessarily easy to understand for non-native english speakers).
So if I'm sitting there, considering whether or not to bother hacking a PC drive or buy one of these, I'd buy one "just to get the clean original look and feel".

At the very least, he should lose the word 'Amiga' and just put 'internal 3.5" floppy disk drive for the Amiga A1200 or A600'.
Preferably, also mention that this is a modified HD mechanism (but I assume, tested to work with both NDOS and normal Amiga disks. I know some Escom drives used to have problems with NDOS).

That's my opinion anyway
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 07:34:19 PM
Quote
This description, specifically that it says 'Amiga internal drive' leads me to believe that this is in fact an Amiga branded drive.(The difference between 'brand new' and 'NOS' aren't necessarily easy to understand for non-native english speakers).


If you are a non-native English speaker all the more reason to ask questions to clarify before ordering.  Shall Amigkit have to go to the expense to get their website translated and certified as translated correctly into every language on earth?  Is there some hallucinogen that has been released into the air in northern Europe recently?  Because starting to go down that path of thinking is pretty crazy.

Between "drive mechanisms may vary" and it being almost 2009 it certainly should be assumed these are not drives that Commodore or Escom manufactured directly.  Amiga at the time was a brand.  And these drives are for that brand, like it says on their page.

Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: broken on December 30, 2008, 07:35:40 PM
I think Amigakit should just reword that description to add:

"Drive mechanism may not be compatible with aftermarket tower conversion kits. Please contact us first to inquire about compatible drives."


Done deal.

That saves everyone a hella lot of headaches about what these are intended for.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 07:39:33 PM
Quote

broken wrote:
I think Amigakit should just reword that description to add:

"Drive mechanism may not be compatible with aftermarket tower conversion kits. Please contact us first to inquire about compatible drives."


Done deal.

That saves everyone a hella lot of headaches about what these are intended for.


They certainly can and it might be nice for them to do I agree.  But its certainly far from necessary at the same time.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: dannyp1 on December 30, 2008, 07:49:20 PM
Lorraine says:

"This still doesn't mean Matt couldn't put a little note in bold/8point/times at the very bottom of the ad simply saying "this is a modified PC drive", unless he's worried it'll somehow put people off buying it, but then that's dishonesty in itself."

Thank you Lorraine.  That is kinda what I was getting at.  Not the size of someones rear end.  I realize that it's not practical to list everything the drive fits but a lttle note like you suggest would help.  You can run across a road without looking one hundred times and not get hit.  When you get hit on the 101st time you run across does mean that you were right to do it the first hundred times.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 07:54:43 PM
Quote

dannyp1 wrote:

You can run across a road without looking one hundred times and not get hit.  When you get hit on the 101st time you run across does mean that you were right to do it the first hundred times.


You really feel thats a fair analogy to Amigakit selling its drives with the current description?  You really feel they were that wanton and reckless?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: dannyp1 on December 30, 2008, 08:16:33 PM
I feel that it would be a very easy thing to add a simple sentence to the description.  It would seem to me that Amigakit if truly customer friendly would want to do it.  It wouldn't hurt anything and it might help.  OK, if you didn't like the crossing the road story, how about walking with your shoes untied, or any of a thousand other things.  The point of the story was that someone eventually didn't understand the description and if adding a sentence to the description will fix the misunderstanding, why not fix it?  I worked at a chemical company for 28 years and believe me, many times I saw change initiated by just 1 complaint.  But I am also willing to acknowledge that I live in the US and it's very possible that customer relations here might be very different than in the UK.  Lots of things are different.  Slim Whitman was bigger than Elvis or the Beatles in the UK.     :-)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: kolla on December 30, 2008, 08:22:08 PM
I think it would make sense to put a disclaimer on the page. Something like...

"Note that these are modified PC floppy drives. They fit original A600 and A1200 cases, but might not fit all tower solutions. Contact us if you are unsure."

Personally I have no clue on how to modify a PC drive to work as amiga drive, and have two kylwaldas that I use . is it a simple operation?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amigakit on December 30, 2008, 08:35:16 PM
These drives are not advertised for use in a tower system.

Before completing checkout, we ask customers to confirm they have read this message displayed:

"You must decide before ordering if the goods are suitable for your needs and the product is fit for the application that you are using it for. If you need further detailed information or have general queries about a product, contact us before placing an order. Check compatibility of the product carefully. We do not exhaustively publish product compatibility details on the website, so you may email us to check compatibility against individual configurations."

I don't believe we should go into exhaustive details regarding products as it confuses some customers.  We have to keep the correct balance between keeping the webstore factual and not making descriptions overly complicated with information.  Please take into consideration, that this query/complaint is the first that has transpired since we started selling the product in 2004 - that is the true barometer for how clear the description actually is to customers.  If you look at other Amiga dealer's websites, they adopt a simple/factual approach to product descriptions, entirely consistent with our webstore.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 08:44:47 PM
Quote

dannyp1 wrote:
The point of the story was that someone eventually didn't understand the description and if adding a sentence to the description will fix the misunderstanding, why not fix it?  


If I were Amigakit I would modify it at this point slightly.  I've agreed with some of the suggestions given already.  BUT to say it needed fixing is to say it was broken.  First it was not.  It was more than reasonably sufficient.  I'm all for it being even beyond that and agree that its probably in Amigakit's best interest to do so (why not improve something if it can be).  But its not my business, nor anyone elses.  Its one thing to give friendly suggestions.  And we can all vote with spending our money at other vendors.  But its another to blame the victim in a public attack.  And in this case Amigakit is the clear victim IMHO.  He got cursed at for no good reason (and granted was apologized to and that particular attack did occur in private).  But beyond that he has been attacked in public as if he has a dishonest listing on his site.  Which is simply not the case.  And the person who is the disgruntled customer has gone way out of his way to cloud the issue and misplace blame. The fact is if it said it was made from a PC drive it would not have stopped his order, as he has admitted several times that he thought any drive that fits in an A1200 fits in his custom case.  If one really reads all he has written that become pretty apparent.  His real sour grapes is that he dosen't like how its built.  And build quality is to some degree a matter of opinion.  That is what he should have addressed with Amigakit.  If he has been honest from the get go, who knows, he might have even gotten satisfaction from Amigakit.

Quote
But I am also willing to acknowledge that I live in the US and it's very possible that customer relations here might be very different than in the UK.


I'm in the US too.  And we have been as a culture excusing the need for personal responsibility for decades now.  Its a wonder anyone wants to run a business these days at all.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 08:48:23 PM
Maybe I was the first customer you had that knew how to mod PC drives and the others didn't feel the need to complain because of that.

I hope people don't get me wrong, these drives are well worth the money for some who doesn't have the know how and the tools to modify a PC drive.

I was simply expecting "original" A1200/A600 floppy drive and this product isn't one. Simply wasted 43 euros.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 08:50:31 PM
@Painkiller

Quote

amigakit wrote:

Before completing checkout, we ask customers to confirm they have read this message displayed:

"You must decide before ordering if the goods are suitable for your needs and the product is fit for the application that you are using it for. If you need further detailed information or have general queries about a product, contact us before placing an order. Check compatibility of the product carefully. We do not exhaustively publish product compatibility details on the website, so you may email us to check compatibility against individual configurations."


You failed to mention this extra bit.  This really put the last nail in the coffin of your argument.  :rtfm:
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on December 30, 2008, 08:54:23 PM
Quote
The fact is if it said it was made from a PC drive it would not have stopped his order, as he has admitted several times that he thought any drive that fits in an A1200 fits in his custom case.


Just where did you get this fact. I have always stated that I wouldn't have ordered these if I knew these were modified PC drives. Never have I said otherwise.

What I said was I taught any A1200 drive would fit case, in which point I didn't recall that they made different A1200 floppy drives.

What I also said is that I knew that no modified PC drive would fit the case without further modification.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 09:04:36 PM
Painkiller wrote:
Quote

What I said was I taught any A1200 drive would fit case


Well you thought wrong, as evidenced by these A1200 drives not fitting.

Quote

in which point I didn't recall that they made different A1200 floppy drives


Thats unfortunate, really.  But has nothing to do with the store you bought from.  Worse, it was a store known for good friendly customer service, but you didn't even bother with that ahead of the purchase.

Its pretty obvious you are really eaten up about this 40 something euro.  Its sadly not coming back to you.  You learned a lesson hopefully.

Quote
What I also said is that I knew that no modified PC drive would fit the case without further modification
 The fact that some original A1200 drives fit this description makes your assertion dubious at best.

Anyway this is going in circles.  If you don't get it by now I hope you one day will.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amyren on December 30, 2008, 09:23:53 PM
I agree with AmigaKit in this matter.
Just browsing a bit on random in their webshop, I would say that their item descpriptions are above average when comparing to many other webshops out there.
When it comes to the issue if they should modify the description on these floppy drives or not, I would leave it up to AmigaKit themself to decide.

But after giving normal customer service and getting named a***ole, and then the same customer close to demanding that they must admit their fault and make a better description.... who can blame they for simly not wanting to  "give in".
But if they do it, they will have my respect for being far more generous than expected. I recall some well known story about "turning the other cheek".

But after all, the story ended quite well. The customer found use for his purchase, and in my eyes AmigaKit came out stronger. After reading this thread I feel even more assured that AmigaKit is a serious dealer that can be trusted.

Maybe I will order a Sam board from them soon. The Sam will replace my old A4000. I asume that this board will fit inside my Elbox tower and use the same psu without any modification, no need to even ask about that. After all they dont mention anything about that in the ad.
 :-P (sorry couldnt resist)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Zac67 on December 30, 2008, 09:24:44 PM
Actually "Brand new and guaranteed. Drive mechanism may vary." gives it away completely.

"Brand new" excludes the possibility for original C=, AT or AI stock and "Drive mechanism may vary." explicitly states that without asking beforehand it's impossible to tell what exact drive you'd get mechanical wise. The checkout note even reminds you of double-checking and asking before ordering, so only when ignoring all that can you have that kind of problem.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: A1260 on December 30, 2008, 09:32:08 PM
is it really that hard for amigakit to write and include in the text, that they are selling modified pc floppys? IS IT REEEAALLY THAT DAMN HARD1!!!!!! :-x JESUS CHRIST HOLY MARRY!!! 10 SITES OF DISCUSSION OF THIS BS.
Title: /
Post by: Lorraine on December 30, 2008, 09:34:24 PM
/
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Andeda on December 30, 2008, 09:35:14 PM
Amen
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 09:37:57 PM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
is it really that hard for amigakit to write and include in the text, that they are selling modified pc floppys? IS IT REEEAALLY THAT DAMN HARD1!!!!!! :-x JESUS CHRIST HOLY MARRY!!!


Obviously they didn't feel it was necessary.  Hard or easy had nothing to do with it.  If you bought toothpicks that you later found out were made from unused wooden chopsticks instead of logs of wood does it really matter if the seller specified such ahead of time, or is it extraneous information?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: AmigaHeretic on December 30, 2008, 09:47:06 PM
Quote

Painkiller wrote:

What I also said is that I knew that no modified PC drive would fit the case without further modification.


That doesn't remotely make sense.  A further "modified" modified drive???  How do you know I couldn't have a modified PC drive that fits an A1200, but also works in the tower like "some" NOS drives do?




Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: A1260 on December 30, 2008, 09:57:17 PM
@ffastback

its clearly here that IT IS necessary and amigakit is pissing in the wind... amigakit should layflat fix the text and move on, its as easy as that. you dont start a 11 pages discussion about it, period!

 
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Everblue on December 30, 2008, 10:06:39 PM
I was checking Amigakit's site, and it says:

"The floppy drive is compatible with various revisions of Amiga motherboards and fits into any standard 3.5" bay."

If your tower isnt a standard 3.5" bay, then obviously wont fit.

This is how an infinitiv tower looks like in the front:

(http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/diyt.jpg)

and this is the floppy drive's picture on amiga kit:

(http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/images/towerfloppy.jpg)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amiga_3k on December 30, 2008, 10:10:52 PM
Take a good look at the picture of the Infinitiv... the eject-buttons don't stick out equally where they actually should. Seems that Mikronik didn't have two of the same drives when shooting the advertising pictures ;-).
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Darrin on December 30, 2008, 10:12:40 PM
@ Everblue,

Actually, that's not the drive he bought.  That's the drive in the link I posted that I thought he should have bought because I assumed his tower was like the Elbox/Power tower.  It's also the sort of drive that the makes of that tower should have designed the case for.  :-)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 30, 2008, 10:21:46 PM
Quote

A1260 wrote:
@ffastback

its clearly here that IT IS necessary and amigakit is pissing in the wind... amigakit should layflat fix the text and move on, its as easy as that.

 


How do you figure that?  The webpage is quite clear from the start.  The information at checkout is very clear on top of that.  And even though his return policy (that is also clear on the website) does not indicate that he needed to take the drives back he was willing to anyway as a gesture of good service.  You are asking him to fix something that is not broken.  

Quote

you dont start a 11 pages discussion about it, period!


Painkiller started this thread.  Not Amigakit.  Would you have someone tell you how to run your business, even after you kindly gave the opinion due consideration, but just did not agree with it?  And you tried honestly to resolve the issue by allowing a return you normally do not allow?  Painkiller took extra steps to gain sympathy, saying its approx 43 euros to send back when it could be sent back for 20 something and to rub salt in the wound he wanted Amigakit to pay the higher price on its way back.  For what, spite?  Give me a break.  The only alternative he gave was that he keep the drives but get approx 20 euro for his "trouble".  Then he curses Amigakit out in email when these demands are not met.

Amigakit has other customers to think about as well and he dosen't want to confuse the info on the page based on his response.  Thats a valid opinion and his prerogative to hold.  Personally if I were Amigakit I'd choose a wording middle-ground.  I think just saying "New compatible A600/A1200 floppy drives - drive mechanisms may vary" was the best suggestion.  But its his business.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ZeBeeDee on December 31, 2008, 01:14:02 AM
@Painkiller

Sorry but IMHO, you made the mistake when ordering the parts in the first place - you have no excuse for not checking suitability for your tower ... suck it up and move on.

@Amigakit

You still rock!

Nuff said  :-)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Amigadude on December 31, 2008, 01:17:42 AM
Not saying Amigakit are in the wrong but a line something like:

"please contact us regarding fitment in anything other than standard A600/A1200 cases"

in their description would cover not being able to test every possible casing option.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: kolla on December 31, 2008, 01:35:59 AM
Btw... anyone happen to  have a spare "expansion" for Infinitiv? Mine isnt tall enough with both zorro board and the Blizzard inside :-)

http://amiga.nvg.org/moro/infinitiv-daneel-2.jpg  :roll:
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: ffastback on December 31, 2008, 02:01:22 AM
Quote

kolla wrote:
Btw... anyone happen to  have a spare "expansion" for Infinitiv? Mine isnt tall enough with both zorro board and the Blizzard inside :-)

http://amiga.nvg.org/moro/infinitiv-daneel-2.jpg  :roll:



You just couldn't let this thread slip off the front page huh? :crazy:
Title: /
Post by: Lorraine on December 31, 2008, 02:16:48 AM
/
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: RRunner on December 31, 2008, 02:27:16 AM
OMG - That was entertaining! That was the most fun I've had since Christmas morning! Hahaha! Well maybe not but hey, let's milk a little more out of this by putting it to a web poll! And if anyone is still reading this, I think that Painkiller was totally in the wrong! AmigaKit FTW...

:popcorn:



Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Daedalus on December 31, 2008, 03:32:07 AM
Wow. Now, maybe I'm missing something here (that's a very long thread for 3am!), but what if AmigaKit were selling original drives as fitted to 1200s? What if you bought one of these drives, Painkiller, and it didn't fit your tower because it was a modified PC drive that Commodore or Escom fitted over 15 years ago? What would you say then? It's obvious the Infinitiv tower is badly designed to depend on the exact layout of one specific model of drive. There's nothing wrong with the AmigaKit description. It says "Mechanisms vary". Right away that would start alarm bells ringing for me if I was looking to use it in a non-standard way, as you are. If anyone's description is lacking it's the one you have of your Infinitiv tower, saying that it will accept all A1200 drives. It won't, whether they're modded PC drives as fitted by Commodore or Escom, or by third parties. Neither Commodore, Escom, or any third party has ever intended these drives for anything other than internal use in an A1200/600.

Really, you need to pay a lot more attention when you're dealing with a DIY hobby with parts spanning decades like this. Consider it a lesson which will serve you well in the future.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Painkiller on January 23, 2009, 12:25:45 PM
@MODS
This thread may be removed.

We have come to an agreement between Amigakit and have found a solution to my problem.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: baxyp on January 23, 2009, 07:23:18 PM
Btw, can you boot demodisks from those drives ? I bought couple of drivers about a year ago after my internal A1200 drive died, one from another online supplier, one from amigakit. They looked the same and the mod seemed to be the same too, so I shelved the amigakit one and used the other. I had to modify it further to enable booting demos, soldered a diode somewhere...
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Everblue on January 23, 2009, 08:50:25 PM
I want to take this opportunity to thank Amigakit for their services. They are friendly, fast, and supportive - at least with all my orders =^-^=
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: beller on January 23, 2009, 09:32:24 PM
Quote

Everblue wrote:
I want to take this opportunity to thank Amigakit for their services. They are friendly, fast, and supportive - at least with all my orders =^-^=


I'll second all of that!  AmigaKit has always helped when asked and made more than good on any issues I've encountered.  Heck, they aren't even rude when you ask dumb questions!   :-D
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Scottish_Chris on March 28, 2011, 03:51:50 PM
:bump::bump:

Having been away from the AMiGA scene for 11 years, I've come back and decided to resurrect my miggy's, which have languishing in a cupboard for all that time.  
Now all the retailers from back in the day are gone and only Amigakit remain, so I've put all my faith in them and ordered lots of replacement bits n' bobs over the last week or so and all I can say is the service thus far has been superb.

I look forward to buying lots more bits n' bobs and maybe an X1000 in the future.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: hektic on March 28, 2011, 04:26:35 PM
Sorry to hear bout the drive troubles, I think Amigakit could describe the drives in a little more detail to avoid this kinda thing.

I've ordered a few bits off amigakit over the last couple of years, I have to say I think their customer service is top notch!
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: motrucker on March 28, 2011, 07:05:45 PM
Quote from: save2600;435045
@ broken:

Here in the midwest, lots of teens/kids with confused ethnic orientations "soup" up those tiny "rally" cars all the time. Even more offensive than the way they dress themselves, they have more money tied up in "ghetto blaster" like subwoofers that vibrate their cheaply made and overpriced "bling" they stuck all over the car. 'Blaring' doesn't even describe the word for how loud they insist on playing that repetitive ghetto garbage they call "music". To make matters even worse, they'll also do away with the quiet factory exhaust and stick on a larger, shinier POS that makes their {bleep}box even more offensive. As if we couldn't already see and hear them coming. It's a trashy urban cultural phenomenon to be sure and I do not see positive social change happening any time soon. In cases such as this, where tackiness is now accepted and rampant, and class and common courtesy are all but obsolete, I cannot simply say: "to each, his own". These kinds of kids *need* to either be dispatched to their own worthless isle or reprogrammed.

Sorry for the hijacked thread, but since Andeda is sitting back with his popcorn and beer...  lol

It's happened. You have turned into your father.    :hammer:
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: motrucker on March 28, 2011, 07:11:09 PM
To try to stay on topic - Amigakit is the best Amiga store we have. By any standard they are good, and their customer service is beyond reproach. They get my vote, and my business...
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: djrikki on March 28, 2011, 07:21:43 PM
Yeah can't fault AmigaKit up to now.  So far I have bought a funky USB Boing Ball Mouse, a year's subscription to Amiga Future.  And just recently I bought an AmigaOne keyboard and Sam 460ex.. which in fact arrives tomorrow!!

I'd buy promotional merchandise as well if they stocked it... a Mug, a Pen, a Keyring... a mouse matt anything like that would be cool too.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Buzzfuzz on March 28, 2011, 07:33:59 PM
Hmm, I never had problems with Amigakit.
They ship quite fast, answer emails and I ordered quite some stuff so far.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Akiko on March 28, 2011, 08:09:05 PM
Quote from: djrikki;625358
And just recently I bought an AmigaOne keyboard and Sam 460ex.. which in fact arrives tomorrow!!.


Very nice :)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Franko on March 28, 2011, 08:33:32 PM
Always had good service from AmigaKit, only thing you can "fault" them for is like Hektic said they could do with putting a bit more technical info on some of their products like HDs and DVD drive model numbers/ full specs and stuff like that... :)

At the end of the day though we should just be thankful that AmigaKit have stuck around and supported the Amiga Community through thick & thin for all these years and long may they continue to do so... :)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: actung_bab on March 28, 2011, 10:28:01 PM
why dont you list them on here id maybe take one those drives
i got order a amiga 4000 psu adaptor first though pay for that desprate to
see can repair my baby . only gribe l have with them is last time sent email about
postage they never replyed to me at all thou7ght that was werid
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: amigakit on March 28, 2011, 11:50:27 PM
@actung_bab

Items have variable shipping rates based on the weight of the package and destination address.  You can get a realtime estimate of the shipping costs by clicking the Shipping Estimate button at the bottom of each product page.  The website will ask for your Zip/Postal code and then provide a quotation.  Hope this helps!

Floppy drives are here:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=106
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=294
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: LordSpunky on March 29, 2011, 05:24:41 PM
I've got to say I love Amigakit - hard not too. I've never had a problem with all the five orders I have placed. I plan many more - I too do wish that some items had more description. Or can we have some more items? I want 3.1 ROMS on my A4000 to run WK 3.1.....but there is only A4000T 3.1 ROM's which won't do without the Tower Workbench.......I feel victimised! ;)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: AndyLandy on March 29, 2011, 05:45:32 PM
Quote from: LordSpunky;625755
I want 3.1 ROMS on my A4000 to run WK 3.1.....but there is only A4000T 3.1 ROM's which won't do without the Tower Workbench.......I feel victimised! ;)

They should work fine in an A4000D, the only difference is that workbench.library is removed to make way for the A4091 SCSI device. Any Workbench 3.1 disk set will have workbench.library on the disks anyway, there are no specific A4000T versions of Workbench 3.1 disks. :-)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: zosodk69 on March 29, 2011, 07:19:02 PM
I curious why we're talking about this?  The thread is from years ago.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: LordSpunky on March 30, 2011, 05:01:26 PM
Quote from: AndyLandy;625758
They should work fine in an A4000D, the only difference is that workbench.library is removed to make way for the A4091 SCSI device. Any Workbench 3.1 disk set will have workbench.library on the disks anyway, there are no specific A4000T versions of Workbench 3.1 disks. :-)

hmmmm I suppose I should load up my A1200 and have a look ;) cheers
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Franko on March 30, 2011, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: zosodk69;625781
I curious why we're talking about this?  The thread is from years ago.


Simple, it was revived by a new/returning member a couple of days ago instead of starting a new thread on the same subject... :)

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=625298&postcount=120

Anyway it's good to keep one of the few remaining Amiga shops in the spotlight in case any new folk to the Amiga haven't heard of them or for folk returning who may have forgot about them... :)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: prolife on March 31, 2011, 01:20:08 AM
i'm on the op's side here. i get stuff off ebay and people turn round, after i find it doesn't work, and say the listing didn't say it worked it's as described. you should have checked first! then i am expected to pay to return it.
sellers need to take note of these things and describe them fully rather than losing customers. i had an instance of buying drum software described as having "55 kits." after i bought it i found it had 4 kits the company was defining a "kit" as a drum... i already had all that as part as other software and i did ask before hand but they never bothered to email me back after 3 weeks so i bought the software... after a long fight i got my money back but they are in my bad books for life. in that case they changed the wording. the only defence they had is that every other company was just as unscrupulous in their descriptions.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: magnetic on March 31, 2011, 04:34:16 AM
I dont know I placed on order for a floppy drive with amigakit  over 2 weeks ago and still have not received it. I needed it last week. They have this "US site" but the reality is There is NO USA aspect.. it all comes from UK. So us buyers dont be in a hurry, as you are looking at 3 weeks..
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: runequester on March 31, 2011, 04:47:51 AM
I hate to be "that didn't happen to me", but all my orders have arrived in the US in a week or so. The one exception was an item I knew was out of stock.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: broken on March 31, 2011, 05:02:22 PM
Quote from: magnetic;626180
I dont know I placed on order for a floppy drive with amigakit  over 2 weeks ago and still have not received it. I needed it last week. They have this "US site" but the reality is There is NO USA aspect.. it all comes from UK. So us buyers dont be in a hurry, as you are looking at 3 weeks..

Did you pay the small upgrade fee to go FedEx Express shipping? Its like $4.

Otherwise your item is coming via postal service and all that stuff has been getting delayed in US Customs for sometimes up to a couple weeks.


Not Amigakits fault at all.


If you had paid the FedEx $4 fee you would have had the drive in about 2 business days from it being shipped.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Daedalus on March 31, 2011, 05:15:04 PM
In the case of eBay stuff, you have to be careful alright, but I don't see what's wrong with asking a direct question. If you get a direct answer, you know where you stand. If you don't, take your money elsewhere. It's not the bargain basement it used to be - things are cheap for a reason. If they don't say "fully tested and working," send them a mail asking "Does it work?"

For a store like AmigaKit it's usually much better, but still, they've always been quick to reply to any questions I send them regarding technical details of their products, and overall quite helpful in that respect.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: runequester on March 31, 2011, 05:45:36 PM
Quote from: broken;626300
Did you pay the small upgrade fee to go FedEx Express shipping? Its like $4.

Otherwise your item is coming via postal service and all that stuff has been getting delayed in US Customs for sometimes up to a couple weeks.


Not Amigakits fault at all.


If you had paid the FedEx $4 fee you would have had the drive in about 2 business days from it being shipped.


Good point. I bought a game on ebay recently. Took 1 day for the guy to ship, and once it cleared customs in the US it took 2 days to reach my house. Customs sat on it for 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: tribz on March 31, 2011, 06:40:30 PM
Placed an order for some bits yesterday, arrived today. Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Franko on March 31, 2011, 08:03:36 PM
Quote from: Daedalus;626302
In the case of eBay stuff, you have to be careful alright, but I don't see what's wrong with asking a direct question. If you get a direct answer, you know where you stand. If you don't, take your money elsewhere. It's not the bargain basement it used to be - things are cheap for a reason. If they don't say "fully tested and working," send them a mail asking "Does it work?"

For a store like AmigaKit it's usually much better, but still, they've always been quick to reply to any questions I send them regarding technical details of their products, and overall quite helpful in that respect.


Before I buy anything on eBay that's what I do, it pays to ask specific questions about the item condition, postage, packaging etc... :)

That way if anything goes wrong then you're virtualy guaranteed to get a full refund from ebay if the seller has provided you in an eBay message the condition of the item and it doesn't match when you receive it, even if it does say no returns or refunds in the listing... :)

On the postage side I've bought a lot of stuff from the USA recently and the longest anything has taken is 11 days, even had stuff from China arrive with 6 days... :)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: drewz21 on March 31, 2011, 11:01:33 PM
Just to chime in...I've purchased many things over the years from AmigaKit and they have always been top-notch!  I would not hesitate to buy anything from them!
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: smerf on April 01, 2011, 12:13:19 AM
Hi,

@everyone,

Wow!!!

At this point in time I don't think it is Amigakits fault that the drive didn't work, I think it is all these MFG's that design cases that are not in line with a regular case, in other words they have to specialize their case just because it is Amiga. They don't make their systems so you can put a regular drive. So if I was painkiller I would be writing to Infinity towers asking them why their case is so darned specialized. I built my tower with an old PC server case. Have 2 different drives in it, and didn't have to jump through hoops are curse at dealers about parts.

and

I guess I am a pervert, because dremels and skillsaws  give me a hart thumping experience.

smerf
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Retro_71 on April 01, 2011, 12:16:16 AM
My NOS A1200 and CD32 + countless cards and pretty much ALL my upgrade came from Amikit (except the GVP 4060 and GVP ram) they have always been very fast and friendly BUT i would look more the customs since they always hold things up.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Retro_71 on April 01, 2011, 12:18:43 AM
Quote from: smerf;626397
Hi,

@everyone,

I guess I am a pervert, because dremels and skillsaws  give me a hart thumping experience.

smerf


Count me a pervert too I love my Dremel would not know what to do without one!
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: smerf on April 01, 2011, 12:19:58 AM
Quote from: motrucker;625353
To try to stay on topic - Amigakit is the best Amiga store we have. By any standard they are good, and their customer service is beyond reproach. They get my vote, and my business...


Hi,

I used to do all my business with Software Hut, but it seems like the last three orders I put in my email was returned.

Anybody know if they are still in business.

If so they should upgrade their site.

smerf

by the way, I have done business with both Amigakit and Red, both have fine and fast service.

but before you buy rtfa (read the frappin ad) and if you are not sure send them an email, they always answer.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: yssing on April 01, 2011, 12:20:47 AM
I have never had any problems with them on the contrary. They have been very helpfull.

I also enjoy some of their product, works really well.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: stefcep2 on April 01, 2011, 12:42:13 AM
Never had issues.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Retrofan on April 06, 2011, 01:41:46 AM
It's 1:38 (-1GMT, the same than in UK), I've sent them a message through theirs support ticket and I've got an answer right now... Isn't that a good customer service?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Puni/Void on April 27, 2011, 07:16:09 PM
I've always had smooth deals with Amigakit. Quick delivery, quality products. :)
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Nearly-Right on May 21, 2011, 01:41:06 AM
I've usually found them efficient, and friendly, but I'm still waiting for a reply from an email question I asked them over 2 days ago.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on May 21, 2011, 05:35:37 AM
I have always had good service from AmigaKit;  granted, I either call or just place my order.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: Multivac on September 03, 2012, 07:36:43 PM
I've always had excellent service from Amigakit; ranging from simple components, Indivisions and a SAM Flex. The repair and upgrade service is good too.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: CritAnime on September 03, 2012, 10:55:48 PM
Any time I have had to deal with Amigakit I have had nothing but the best service. Even when I phoned up with what could be considered by most the most pissy of questions, I called em about which psu to buy for my 600, they were respectful and made me feel like I was their number 1 customer. Nothing was too big for them and they were professional to the last.

I don;t give out praise for companies often but well. They were great.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: smerf on September 04, 2012, 02:09:33 AM
Hi,

@Painkiller

HMMMM! did you know that Sony is the only floppy drive maker still making Floppy Drives, but from what I heard they might quit this year.  So where does that leave us Amiga folks, better start buying floppy drives and storing them.

I guess I can't feel your pain PainKiller, because I am so used to modifying my Amiga, that dremels are a must. Hey this hobby is very frustrating, you have to modify cases, everything you do, you have to think, measure, modify, saw, hammer, solder, crunch, nibble, weld, clean, scream, and then try again.

You must be a Mac user, everything has it's place and must fit right. Well Mac user welcome to Amiga, who knows maybe one of these days you will learn how to use tools and modify stuff.

Thank you AmigaKit, people just don't understand that what you sell works for the description, anything else you buy it for well have fun modding.  It is what it is and that is all that it is.

smerf
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: som99 on September 04, 2012, 02:12:31 AM
Quote from: smerf;706495
Hi,

@Painkiller

HMMMM! did you know that Sony is the only floppy drive maker still making Floppy Drives, but from what I heard they might quit this year.  So where does that leave us Amiga folks, better start buying floppy drives and storing them.

I guess I can't feel your pain PainKiller, because I am so used to modifying my Amiga, that dremels are a must. Hey this hobby is very frustrating, you have to modify cases, everything you do, you have to think, measure, modify, saw, hammer, solder, crunch, nibble, weld, clean, scream, and then try again.

You must be a Mac user, everything has it's place and must fit right. Well Mac user welcome to Amiga, who knows maybe one of these days you will learn how to use tools and modify stuff.

smerf


Nice necroing ;) Answering a post that is over 3 years old ^^
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: smerf on September 04, 2012, 02:17:53 AM
Hi,

@Franko,

If you bought something from the USA it was probably made in China or Taiwan anyways. The only thing America manufactures anymore is crooked politicians and dishonest judges and lawyers (no change for lawyers).
Good to see that you are still around, hang in there and give the moderators a Scottish Moon.

smerf
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: smerf on September 04, 2012, 02:20:17 AM
Quote from: som99;706496
Nice necroing ;) Answering a post that is over 3 years old ^^


What you talking about som99, if it is three years old why is it up on the board?
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: smerf on September 04, 2012, 02:23:22 AM
Hi,

Oh man didn't even notice the date, all of that typing for naught,

Will I ever live this down.

Must of been a joke by Karlos, I blame him for everything.

smerf
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: kickstart on September 04, 2012, 02:31:29 AM
Is easy, if the drives are modified from pc amigakit should advice it, painkiller have the reason.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: runequester on September 10, 2012, 02:00:00 AM
Just received a cocolino mouse adapter and mouse from them. Pretty quick (about a week or so from the UK to US, including customs) and well packaged as always.
Title: Re: Amigakit and their customer service...
Post by: motrucker on September 10, 2012, 03:01:26 AM
Quote from: Multivac;706438
I've always had excellent service from Amigakit; ranging from simple components, Indivisions and a SAM Flex. The repair and upgrade service is good too.

Did you happen to notice the date on this thread?
Franko is right about about the brain death problem around here.....