Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: amigakit on September 05, 2015, 06:07:39 PM
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A-EON Technology Ltd (http://www.a-eon.com) is pleased to announce a new Classic Amiga mouse is now available.
(http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/images/boing_ball_mouse_white2.jpg)
As part of A-EON's ongoing commitment to Classic Amiga users, we have teamed up with Elbox Computer to produce a new optical 1000 DPI modern mouse.
If you are always finding that the Commodore original mouse needs cleaning and operates unreliably, then this mouse will provide a quality replacement on your Amiga.
- optical (no ball and no cleaning!)
- 1000 DPI resolution
- microswitched buttons
- compatible with A500, A500+, A600*, A1200, A1500, A2000, A3000, A4000, A4000T.
- scrollwheel and tilt functions can be mapped in Freewheel (http://aminet.net/package/util/mouse/FreeWheel) software
* Optional adapter is required for A600 use available here (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1245).
Where To Buy:
- AmigaKit.com (UK) (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/GBP.php?url=product_info.php?products_id=1258)
- AmigaKit.com (Europe) (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/EUR.php?url=product_info.php?products_id=1258)
- AmigaKit.com (USA) (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/USD.php?url=product_info.php?products_id=1258)
- AmigaKit.com (Canada) (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/CAD.php?url=product_info.php?products_id=1258)
- Other official A-EON dealers soon
(http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/images/classic_db9_connector.jpg)
(http://amistore.net/images/a-eon_logo_sm.PNG) (http://www.a-eon.com)
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Nice! So this is basically the same as your regular Boing Ball mouse, only with a direct 9-pin connector, so I could use one without my current daisy-chain of mouse-to-USB-to-PS/2-adapter-to-Cocolino-to-Amiga?
Good deal, I'll take three of them as soon as they're available in black. ;)
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I have the USB version of this mouse, it's very comfortable and looks the part.
The scrollwheel support on classic is a big plus. :-)
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Thanks for the information.
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Very nice guys :)
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Nice! I'll be getting a few of them. Now if we could get a well made analog Joystick I'm set.
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Very nice indeed.
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Yes nice! Might consider bying one of these the next time I order something from AmigaKit.
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Now if we could get a well made analog Joystick I'm set.
You didn't like the Arcade Evolution? I always preferred actual "joysticks" (i.e., pistol-grip style like the TAC30), but it's not bad. I've used my AE a bit and haven't broken it yet. ;)
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Nice! I might buy one at Neuss :)
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I see it's a 1000 DPI mouse, but does the adapter scale the DPI down, or will I get a pointer 4-5 times the speed of the older Amiga mice?
It's not a problem in Workbench, but games usually just assume you're using the original 200 or so DPI mouse.
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You didn't like the Arcade Evolution? I always preferred actual "joysticks" (i.e., pistol-grip style like the TAC30), but it's not bad. I've used my AE a bit and haven't broken it yet. ;)
That joystick looks to be a switched type, Digital. Operation Stealth and others allow you to use an analog type stick, Continuously variable. Much better for flight. I have an old Quikshot but it's getting very sloppy and won't stay centered.
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I see it's a 1000 DPI mouse, but does the adapter scale the DPI down, or will I get a pointer 4-5 times the speed of the older Amiga mice?
It's not a problem in Workbench, but games usually just assume you're using the original 200 or so DPI mouse.
Good point, I'd like to know too (for playing Cannon Fodder).
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joke :lol: mouse logitech for 3 us dollar with cocolino adapter internal for 35 eu plus shipping :roflmao:
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https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhzvKd2H-_3otG47JQIRPUyepInqknzLeUYEsS24pzMYbTISUe&usqp=CAY
Sure looks like it - with a different badge.
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https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhzvKd2H-_3otG47JQIRPUyepInqknzLeUYEsS24pzMYbTISUe&usqp=CAY
Sure looks like it - with a different badge.
Haha well spotted :)
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I wonder what will happen when the channel goes dry? Logitech announced it was exiting the OEM business in its 2015 earnings statement: http://news.logitech.com/press-release/corporate/logitech-exceeds-fiscal-year-2015-expectations-best-earnings-seven-years. This must be a limited run using stock on hand. EDIT: It might also thrash your RDB. Or are we not joking about that anymore?
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I see it's a 1000 DPI mouse, but does the adapter scale the DPI down, or will I get a pointer 4-5 times the speed of the older Amiga mice?
It's not a problem in Workbench, but games usually just assume you're using the original 200 or so DPI mouse.
This version works just fine for playing games. Was playing Lemmings against my girl with it just earlier today. She hates that I keep beating her though, but I guess you could say I've been practicing since about 1990 or so, LOL. ;)
http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=981
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Nice, but does the scroll wheel work in the same way as with the Cocolino mouse adapter? I sure hope not...
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Nice, but does the scroll wheel work in the same way as with the Cocolino mouse adapter? I sure hope not...
Eh? I use Freewheel, it works fine. 100% usable, surprising how many programs recognize the scroll wheel. Granted I'm using the USB version (through a Cocolino) so can't speak for this 9-pin version, but I'm assuming they're pretty much the same (except for the interface). ;)
Edit: I'm sure some people will hate it. But some people just like to complain about anything. :p
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Eh?
Cocolino uses a trick to enable use of the mouse wheel and this messes with the normal mouse movement. It sucks, and is a legitimate complaint. I won't ever buy anything that works in a similar way. Basically, original ball mice work better :(
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Cocolino uses a trick to enable use of the mouse wheel and this messes with the normal mouse movement. It sucks, and is a legitimate complaint. I won't ever buy anything that works in a similar way. Basically, original ball mice work better :(
I own two of them and I use them with my Amiga's almost every day. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about! Maybe you just got a defective one?
[Insert joke about "my balls are collecting dust" here] :p
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I honestly have no idea what you're talking about!
The movement doesn't seem off somehow? I find that very hard to believe.
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I also got a Cocoline and it works fine.
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The movement doesn't seem off somehow? I find that very hard to believe.
Only if I haven't had my coffee yet for the day and my hand shakes. ;)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/3d/8f/19/3d8f19af95316d67d16844c42b94addd.jpg)
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Cocolino uses a trick to enable use of the mouse wheel and this messes with the normal mouse movement. It sucks, and is a legitimate complaint. I won't ever buy anything that works in a similar way. Basically, original ball mice work better :(
No problems here with my Cocolino either (AmigaOS 3.9). Check your software for the latest versions. Cocolino.driver 1.2 is on the Elbox web site.
http://www.elbox.com/downloads_cocolino.html
FreeWheel 2.2.2 is on aminet.
http://aminet.net/util/mouse/FreeWheel.lha
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Check your software for the latest versions.
Software or no software makes no difference.
The movement isn't as nice as native mice. It's not that there's anything wrong with the Cocolino interface, it's that it uses a trick to make the scroll wheel available over one game port. This sacrifices some accuracy in the movement. You can notice this when making large diagonal movements at various speeds. Moving the mouse in a circle shape very slowly will result in the mouse pointer moving in a rectangular fashion.
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I now see the Logic in this Tech. I will order a couple of them soon.
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She hates that I keep beating her though, but I guess you could say I've been practicing since about 1990 or so, LOL. ;)
Maybe you might try letting her WIN sometime! :knuddel:
(http://www.prolaptopshop.com/images/amigaorg/letherwin.jpg)
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That joystick looks to be a switched type, Digital. Operation Stealth and others allow you to use an analog type stick, Continuously variable. Much better for flight. I have an old Quikshot but it's getting very sloppy and won't stay centered.
Maybe it's just bad potentiometers? I'll put in some new ones and see if it helps.
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Moving the mouse in a circle shape very slowly will result in the mouse pointer moving in a rectangular fashion.
@Thorham -
I tried really hard to test what you're saying here. Spent 10 minutes drawing circles on two different Amiga's using four different controllers (a "Boing logo" USB mouse, a generic PS/2 mouse, a trackball, and a clunky-old ball mouse).
Everything was silky smooth on my A2000, with the exception of the classic trackball, which actually felt like it made the most "square-like" circles. On the A500, the ball mouse did seem to make the most "circle-ish" circles, like what you're saying, but in no case were any of these devices some horrible nightmare to use, like what it sounded like you were trying to say. Of course the ball mouse is also 1/5th the DPI so it's easier to make small motions (and less sensitive to shaky hands), but I hated how slow it felt otherwise (and also when the buttons stuck... old clunker, haha).
In hindsight, my testing was flawed because I didn't compare a direct USB connection to USB-through-Cocolino (I could have done this, my A2000 has a RapidRoad). I also should've tried a different mousepad, those Amiga.org logo pads are a bit slippery, and probably all the colors and patterns aren't the best things to use with an optical mouse. ;)
In any case, I think I could count on one hand (with four fingers left over) the number of times I've tried to draw circles with a mouse. That's what drawing tablets are for. ;) Maybe if I'm really bored tomorrow I'll try with a "less colorful" mouse pad, and with a straight USB connection.
TL;DR. I don't want to deal with a clunky old slow ball mouse, so even with their imperfections I'll continue to use "modern" mice and Cocolino's on my Miggy's. To each their own. Cheers, now enjoy a 10 minute video of me drawing circles! :)
https://youtu.be/w0wHegf7XLY
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I see what they've done here. The Amiga mouse interface has two 8-bit counters for horizontal and vertical movement, and they've simply discarded the least significant bit in both sets of 8 bits, and used them to signal the status of the mouse-wheel.
It reduces the accuracy in half, and when you move the mouse slow it will snap into a perfect horizontal or vertical motion. If you move it slow enough you should be able to move the mouse across the whole desk without the pointer moving a single pixel. In some situations, moving the wheel may also cause the pointer to move or jitter.
It's hardly the end of the world, but it is an embarassingly poor solution. Why not just send those signals in serial on a separate pin, just like the CD32 pad does with all its extra buttons? That was Commodore's own working solution, ready to be used.
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@Leffmann
Hah, that's a brilliantly awful hack
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TL;DR. I don't want to deal with a clunky old slow ball mouse, so even with their imperfections I'll continue to use "modern" mice and Cocolino's on my Miggy's. To each their own. Cheers, now enjoy a 10 minute video of me drawing circles! :)
My tests showed that I wasn't any better at drawing circles. There is probably something to what Thorham is saying but it doesn't affect smoothness as much as accuracy in some cases. It is much more usable than an old C= tank mouse but maybe not as good as a clean pregnant mouse. The Cocolino with optical mouse is lower maintenance without the need to clean. IMO, the biggest disadvantage of the Cocolino is the extra connection and long adapter sticking out from the back of the Amiga. The A-Eon mouse with builtin adapter would help this.
I see what they've done here. The Amiga mouse interface has two 8-bit counters for horizontal and vertical movement, and they've simply discarded the least significant bit in both sets of 8 bits, and used them to signal the status of the mouse-wheel.
It reduces the accuracy in half, and when you move the mouse slow it will snap into a perfect horizontal or vertical motion. If you move it slow enough you should be able to move the mouse across the whole desk without the pointer moving a single pixel. In some situations, moving the wheel may also cause the pointer to move or jitter.
How did you figure that out? Do all Amiga PC mice adapters have this problem?
It's hardly the end of the world, but it is an embarassingly poor solution. Why not just send those signals in serial on a separate pin, just like the CD32 pad does with all its extra buttons? That was Commodore's own working solution, ready to be used.
Compatibility maybe? CD32 pads don't seem to cause many problems though.
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IMO, the biggest disadvantage of the Cocolino is the extra connection and long adapter sticking out from the back of the Amiga. The A-Eon mouse with builtin adapter would help this.
except the adapter is now simply built in within the plug, shich seems as huge as the adapter before, in order to house it. so what is the advantage now, except that you cant replace the mouse, and that you have the sticker, some people value?
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except the adapter is now simply built in within the plug, which seems as huge as the adapter before, in order to house it. so what is the advantage now, except that you cant replace the mouse, and that you have the sticker, some people value?
Even if the new mouse plug is no shorter than the Cocolino adapter plus PC mouse plug, it is one less connection that can work its way loose. Maybe it would make people like Thorham, who don't like all the Amiga bolt-ons, happy if it wasn't a poor hardware interface design (not verified). It is a disadvantage not to be able to swap to another mouse in case of failure but I have had good luck with the cheap OEM style optical mice. The Amiga sticker doesn't bother me any more than the word Dell or whatever else as long as it is not Microsoft. I guess I am supposed to like the Amiga symbol but the newer Amiga symbols just make me feel depressed. Yea, we got new Amiga branded classic hardware but it is a PC mouse with an Amiga sticker. Amiga innovation at work again. Sigh.
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Even if the new mouse plug is no shorter than the Cocolino adapter plus PC mouse plug, it is one less connection that can work its way loose..
right, one bulky adapter less and one plug less, but its exactly the cable that likes to break especially on edges of such rigid clumsy plugs. id take an extra thought to buy it given the adapter as alternative. to be honest i dont like both that much..
The Amiga sticker doesn't bother me any more than the word Dell or whatever else as long as it is not Microsoft. I guess I am supposed to like the Amiga symbol but the newer Amiga symbols just make me feel depressed. Yea, we got new Amiga branded classic hardware but it is a PC mouse with an Amiga sticker. Amiga innovation at work again. Sigh.
its just a boing ball graphic. nothing much amiga about it, even if its contrary to what was intended.
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right, one bulky adapter less and one plug less, but its exactly the cable that likes to break especially on edges of such rigid clumsy plugs. id take an extra thought to buy it given the adapter as alternative. to be honest i dont like both that much..
Don't you have a Deneb? I guess you can use a USB mouse directly. Are you using 68k AROS only these days? Is the AROS USB driver available before boot? Did you ever try putting the Poseidon input.device in a custom kickstart for AmigaOS? How does the functionality compare between these? Are many games compatible with a USB mouse?
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im using deneb setup mostly with aos, poseidon didnt work with aros yet.
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im using deneb setup mostly with aos, poseidon didnt work with aros yet.
AROS has Poseidon built in though. Is the USB support buggy or are drivers missing for your Deneb? Have you tried the AmigaOS Deneb driver under AROS? I believe the communication for input (mouse, keyboard, gameport) would be Deneb driver to input.device. The Deneb driver should work with the minimal AmigaOS 3.x input.device of which the AROS input.device should be compatible. Poseidon for AmigaOS does include the MOS version of input.device (68k compiled and optional) which has new MOS style device commands which give some new functionality, especially for pre-boot like using the mouse or keyboard in the early startup menu. The AROS input.device decided to use the AmigaOS 4.x style device commands (actually only 1 for now) and modified their input.device and the AROS version of Poseidon for this. It is possible your Deneb device would partially work with AROS (as well as the AmigaOS 3.x input.device). It might be worth a try.
I recently sent Gulliver a new input.device I have been working on to test. It is currently compatible with the MOS style commands for AmigaOS Poseidon compatibility but could be changed to the AROS/AmigaOS 4.x style. This may allow for porting the AROS version of Poseidon back to AmigaOS 3.x and/or allow the new input.device to run under AROS (for test purposes and perhaps better optimization). As is, it should be a drop in replacement for the input.device included with Poseidon. It requires Remus to install in a custom kickstart. It saves some valuable kickstart space as this new input.device is 3768 bytes vs 5544 bytes for the Poseidon input.device. Let me know if you want to test it.
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Are many games compatible with a USB mouse?
I can't speak for Deneb or AROS or anything like that, but I'd imagine any system-friendly game (i.e., any game you can run from Workbench or that multitasks) would work fine with a standard USB mouse. WHDLoad stuff, probably not so much. That's where you'd need to use Cocolino...
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I can't speak for Deneb or AROS or anything like that, but I'd imagine any system-friendly game (i.e., any game you can run from Workbench or that multitasks) would work fine with a standard USB mouse. WHDLoad stuff, probably not so much. That's where you'd need to use Cocolino...
Most early games probably turned off multitasking and banged the hardware registers so there is no hope of a software solution to provide USB input to them from a USB card. Some games may use the lowlevel.library, intuition.library (provides input for a window), input.device, gameport.device, keyboard.device, potgo.resource, etc. If they don't turn off multitasking, a software solution could allow them to accept USB input (games which use the intuition.library and/or input.device may work with USB right now). An FPGA motherboard (hardware) could probably emulate the Amiga gameport/mouseport hardware. I expect the Mist FPGA board can get USB input and write to the hardware registers (while multitasking is turned off) which makes all the existing software function correctly with USB input.
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I have a Spider 2.0 card, and no not a single game I've played that doesn't run under workbench has worked with the USB mouse. In fact, the one I ordered from Amigakit (which seems to be USB/Black version of the mouse this thread is about) has been kind of flaky in various computers I've tried it in.
I specifically ordered this mouse for two reasons, 1) the aforementioned compatibility with games, wanted an optical mouse that will work in games. (haven't tried this yet) 2) Wanted to get the mouse wheel scroll working for browsers. For some reason though, it's not working. I have Freewheel in wbstartup++ folder, tried inside Enabled, and outside of it, but still no suck luck.
This is running on my A4000D with AmikitReal.
slaapliedje
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I have a Spider 2.0 card, and no not a single game I've played that doesn't run under workbench has worked with the USB mouse. In fact, the one I ordered from Amigakit (which seems to be USB/Black version of the mouse this thread is about) has been kind of flaky in various computers I've tried it in.
Oh for the love of... it's not the mouse, it's the interface. No hardware-hacking, bit-banging game from 1985 is going to support a mouse plugged into a USB port. They didn't even have USB ports when most Amiga games were written. That's why you get a Cocolino, or use system-friendly games. Or the new version of this mouse that plugs directly into a 9-pin port. *sigh*
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Oh for the love of... it's not the mouse, it's the interface. No hardware-hacking, bit-banging game from 1985 is going to support a mouse plugged into a USB port. They didn't even have USB ports when most Amiga games were written. That's why you get a Cocolino, or use system-friendly games. Or the new version of this mouse that plugs directly into a 9-pin port. *sigh*
Ha, I know all of this, I was answering questions that someone else had asked earlier in this thread about Deneb+mouse. Of course they didn't have USB back in 1985, closest they had then was the Atari 8-Bit SIO port. What I was saying that the the USB mouse version of the Amiga mouse itself was flaky with other systems (MacOSX, LInux, Windows, different computers, different USB ports) has been hit and miss.
Main reason I had bought the USB version was to use with the Macbook Pro that my employer provided to me to use, and it didn't work with it. Though it had a really flaky USB port, so it's possible that caused most of the issues I had with it. It's working fine right now on a Linux install on my Zenbook.
Yes, I actually bought the mousepad and mouse to use at work on a macbook, just to advertise some Amiga love there.
slaapliedje
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I have a Spider 2.0 card, and no not a single game I've played that doesn't run under workbench has worked with the USB mouse. In fact, the one I ordered from Amigakit (which seems to be USB/Black version of the mouse this thread is about) has been kind of flaky in various computers I've tried it in.
Do you have the USB device driver and Poseidon input.device in kickstart or loaded reset proof? It would be required if booting off a floppy. Most games probably turn off multitasking or throw out the OS and it won't work anyway. USB probably needs to be on a motherboard with an FPGA which can read the USB input and place the processed data in the appropriate Amiga gameport registers to be reliable with all games.
I specifically ordered this mouse for two reasons, 1) the aforementioned compatibility with games, wanted an optical mouse that will work in games. (haven't tried this yet) 2) Wanted to get the mouse wheel scroll working for browsers. For some reason though, it's not working. I have Freewheel in wbstartup++ folder, tried inside Enabled, and outside of it, but still no suck luck.
I can scroll with the scroll wheel fine using my Cocolino with driver and Freewheel.
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im pretty sure the games bang the hardware for mouse input. no usb mouse will ever work with that except when wired to actual amiga mouse port via some adapter, as in above case.
;)
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Awesome, discovered there is a 'mouse utility' disk they include, though it says it just has freewheel and MX1000 test programs on it.
And the fun begins... go to turn on my Amiga to download the file, and an awful smell emanates that fantastic electronic burn smell....
Time to create a new thread on that.
slaapliedje
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Awesome, discovered there is a 'mouse utility' disk they include, though it says it just has freewheel and MX1000 test programs on it.
No, there is a tool on there as well, that needs to go in your User-Startup, if I recall correctly.
Also there is a later version of FreeWheel on Aminet, than what is on the disk:
http://aminet.net/package/util/mouse/FreeWheel
...but it sounds like you have bigger problems to deal with, now. :(
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Awesome, discovered there is a 'mouse utility' disk they include, though it says it just has freewheel and MX1000 test programs on it.
And the fun begins... go to turn on my Amiga to download the file, and an awful smell emanates that fantastic electronic burn smell....
Time to create a new thread on that.
slaapliedje
Ahh yes... Ozone! You and Curtis should start your own club! J/K :laugh1:
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/75/75e14e6bf93351ef6dc12be1fe29ad693d1307921a3ab3555d682d67fadc92e5.jpg)
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http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69834
Pretty epic burn on the memory chip, it bubbled up, and split down the middle!
slaapliedje
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No, there is a tool on there as well, that needs to go in your User-Startup, if I recall correctly.
Also there is a later version of FreeWheel on Aminet, than what is on the disk:
http://aminet.net/package/util/mouse/FreeWheel
...but it sounds like you have bigger problems to deal with, now. :(
Yeah, :( I had downloaded that from aminet, wasn't working. there was a driver file mentioned on the utility disk.
slaapliedje