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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 07:18:14 PM

Title: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 07:18:14 PM
Hello friends, i'm trying to get online my a1200 with my pc using a crossover cable to establish a tcp/ip link in order to use siamese rtg. The siamese part is no problem as i already have managed to get it working trough serial, but have got an ethernet card for speed performance.
I'm using a serial cable that works, so the problem isn't with it. I have configured the pc side:
192.168.1.50
255.255.255.0
192.168.1.51----->default gateway(miggy ip)

On the amiga side:
192.168.1.51
255.255.255.0
192.168.1.50----->default gateway(pc ip)

but nothing works.
Also i have tried without specifying the gateway part, but still no luck.
Anyone managed to get it out using a crossover cable?.
I have been struggling with it all day long and im very frustrated. I Need your help!
Thanks in advance!!!!
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 22, 2007, 07:29:35 PM
I use a cross over utp cable with my PC and Amiga 4000. The PC has two network cards to make this work. One for internet connection and one for the Amiga.

This my setup:

PC:
IP: 192.168.0.1
Sub: 255.255.255.0

Amiga:
IP: 192.168.0.2
Sub: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.0.1

And then I shared the internet connection on the PC.

Works for me!
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Tripitaka on December 22, 2007, 07:31:59 PM
Siamese RTG?  :-o  I've been after this for eons. If you know were I can get a copy of this please tell me. :-(
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: monami on December 22, 2007, 07:46:50 PM
just out of curiosity i wanted to try my amiga on the net. i wanted this seriously a long time ago...

1. i don't have a pcmcia network card. what do i look for on ebay? i have a router with both types of connector on it. rj45 and thin net.
2. do i really need the cc reset fix? i'm unsure of the ins and outs of it.
3. what software to install for browsing. (free?)
4. i haven't got a monitor for it as such. i do have an lcd tv will it be a complete pain? what else is there for it?

what kind of experience should i expect with an apollo 40/ 28 32mb ram? thanks. :-)
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 10:11:28 PM
Flashlab thanks for your suggestion. On the pc i have two network cards, one wifi for getting internet connecion from my router that is upstairs and another ethernet card, this one by cable. So, how i need to setup both cards in order to get this to work?.
By your comment above i see that on pc you didn't specify a gateway but on the amiga side yes. This is for one card, but how is set the second on the pc?.
Thanks!!
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 10:12:13 PM
Ah, i forgot to say that i use the rj45 card for the amiga 1200.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 22, 2007, 10:44:39 PM
The PC card doesn't need a gateway. Windows takes care of that. Just make sure you share the internet connection.

Connect your Amiga, configure a TCP/IP stack and try pinging first from the PC side.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 10:53:47 PM
So the card to the amiga is the one left without gateway?. The wifi one nedds it in order to get internet, so i assume is only for the second card?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 22, 2007, 10:55:28 PM
On the Amiga you configure the gateway to the IP of the PC card that is connected to the Amiga. On the PC no gateway has been configured.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 10:58:13 PM
Ok, i have done that but no ping response from the miggy.
Either from the miggy there is no response from the pc. It's weird, since the indicator on the tray says that it is connected, but only transmits, no receives.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 22, 2007, 11:00:24 PM
What did you do on the Amiga side?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 11:03:10 PM
I have miami with 192.168.0.2
255.255.255.0 mask
and 192.168.0.1 gateway(pc ip)
Miami has a option for gateway on the tcp/ip menu, but i suppose that it is for configuring the amiga as router.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 11:05:09 PM
One quick question: the shred connection must be the internet one or the card that goes to the amiga?.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 22, 2007, 11:06:08 PM
Well I use Genesis, but Miami should work too. Does pinging the Amiga itself work?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 11:08:18 PM
Pinging the amiga works.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 22, 2007, 11:11:57 PM
Hmm I'm starting to suspect your cable isn't good. Sure it's a cross over?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: MASACREWILL on December 22, 2007, 11:13:20 PM
..sorry for little off-topic, I have just connected my miggy to ADSL modem router and internet works.. great!!!
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: pyrre on December 22, 2007, 11:13:26 PM
Correct me if i am mistaken at any point!


1 - You are using a ROUTER as internet connectivity device?
If so you can connect the amiga directly to it, and set it receive ip. ( you may even force it to use a certain ip and reserve it in the router)

2 - If you are using a PC as internet connectivity device you must bridge the two network cards inside network options. on any OS...


I cannot help you with the amiga as i have not yet tried to setup my amiga for internet... But will do that in the new year.... ( the Christmas tree is currently occupying the space where my amiga was set up)
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 11:15:39 PM
Yes but the router is upstairs and the pc access to it via a wifi card installed. The another card with the crossover cable goes to the amiga. At the moment is impossible to get a cable from the amiga directly to the router.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: pyrre on December 22, 2007, 11:20:09 PM
Quote
Yes but the router is upstairs and the pc access to it via a wifi card installed. The another card with the crossover cable goes to the amiga. At the moment is impossible to get a cable from the amiga directly to the router.


Ok, a stupid question then.

Are you shure it is a x-link cable?
Does it have metal casings outside the RJ45 connector?
If not, it is not a x-link cable.....

EDIT: unless it is home made then...  :-D


Buy a new cable...

EDIT: You can also try easier ip addresses outside the router loop. Like using 100.0.0.X between pc and miggy.
Just remember to set subnet mask to 255.255.255.0
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 11:23:35 PM
It is a working crossovercable that built it myself and tested on another hardware, so it works.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: pyrre on December 22, 2007, 11:29:42 PM
Quote

192.168.1.50
255.255.255.0
192.168.1.51----->default gateway(miggy ip)

On the amiga side:
192.168.1.51
255.255.255.0
192.168.1.50----->default gateway(pc ip)



The PC gate way should be the router. or the PC will try to connect to internet wia the miggy.
And remember to set the bridge option between the wifi card and the other network card.

What PC os are you using?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 22, 2007, 11:34:25 PM
Im using xp. The ips above are for the cable card, the wifi has its own:
192.168.1.33
255.255.255.0
192.168.1.1 --> this is my router ip, the one that is serving the wifi signal.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: pyrre on December 22, 2007, 11:49:32 PM
Ok.

1 Is the wifi card using dynamic IP?
2 Is the cabled network card using static IP?
3 Is the amiga using static IP?

Anyhow, you should leave the WIFI card alone, and focus on the cabled network card. IF you are using static IP, you should for trail and error purposes use the 100.0.0.X IP range on both PC and miggy. Disable any kind of DHCP from the PC-miggy network. And set the network between the miggy and pc to static ip.

------------------
Set the PC side to:
IP: 100.0.0.1
SM: 255.255.255.0

set the Amimga side to:
IP: 100.0.0.2
SM: 255.255.255.0
GateWay: 100.0.0.1
DNS1: "from the router options"
DNS2: "from the router options"
------------------

Make ABSOLUTELY sure you are bridging the two connections in Windows XP network options. If you are not doing that you will never connect to internet.

------------------

By using this setup i have connected other computers to internet. before getting the switch that is.... :-)
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 23, 2007, 02:56:28 PM
Well, i have borrowed a router for performing some tests and connected the amiga directly to this router. The router has dhcp active and works perfectly on the pc. If i try to run dhcp on miami, i can't get any ip address from the router. Also, the light on the dongle is always lit, so i assume that there isn't any traffic going in or out. The card gets detected by the amiga as i go to prepcard tool and it gets detected as a 3c589D network card in the info window.
What could be happening?. Why i can't establish a link?.
P.D. The router is setted only without any external connections, only to test if it gives any ip to the Amiga.
Any clues?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 23, 2007, 03:09:56 PM
Ah I totally overlooked the fact that you're using a PCMCIA card. Are you sure you have a compatible card? The fact that prepcard says so doesn't make it compatible! I even once bought a card from Power Computing stated to be Amiga compatible and it wasn't; prepcard detected it fine though.

What driver are you using? CNet or some other device (3c589 device)? Also look at CardPatch and CardReset on Aminet. It is discussed in more detail here (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=17247).
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 23, 2007, 03:30:39 PM
I'm using the 3c589.device from aminet, and that it's the driver that also was in the floppy bundled with the card.
I have cardreset and cardpatch on my startup-sequence, and of course on /c.
What is the first to execute, cardpatch or cardreset?
I have first cardpatch, then cardreset.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Flashlab on December 23, 2007, 03:57:10 PM
Not all cards need Cardpatch and/or Cardreset AFAIK. Maybe you could experiment with and without the patches? Or plug the card in after booting?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Zac67 on December 23, 2007, 04:10:49 PM
Haven't read everything, so this may have been said already:

1) If you configure two/more devices inside one single segment (same network address), you don't need any default gateway. The default gateway is the way all packets to 'elsewhere' go. (The network address is the local IP binary ANDed with the network mask, e.g. 255.255.255.0 says: "First three octets/bytes are the network part, the last one is the host (specific) part".)

2) Make sure your layer 1 connects: the connect LED has to light (and go off when removing the cable) and the traffic light has to flash while transmitting to and fro (ping).

3) If you use a simple crossover cable, the n-way negotiation may not work. Manually set speed and full/half duplex to matching values on both sides. You might better get a small hub/switch to take care of that.

4) If ping works, try it with larger packet sizes; when smaller packets work but larger ones don't, it's usually a duplex mismatch.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 23, 2007, 04:46:30 PM
Thanks to all for the replies. Will try what you said flash.
Also i teste the card on an old laptop i have to discard a defective card, but the card works flawlessy in this laptop and i managed to get into my lan at first attempt so the card is working, phew!.
I'm thinking that the problem could be on the amiga software(miami), that is doing anything that f*** the whole thing.
Are there some default settings that miami leave active and should be disabled?. Also i tried with the gateway option of miami on and off without luck.
Still seeking a solution, thanks guys, i hope with your help it gets connected once for all.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: actung_bab on December 24, 2007, 06:03:07 AM
l did have one of my mb (1200) with this fix ,
the guy that did the cnet.device (kiwi) he had computer shop.
but l had to use another motherboard as it didnt work with my ppc card (id4)
l just use a pcmcia card brought years ago works fine
athough l too am having trouble networking to the pc (xp)
 :-)
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: actung_bab on December 24, 2007, 06:06:10 AM
u might have to use maimi dx version l regestered both maimi and maimi dx not sure why know ;-)
must been reason though.
damm l cant even network between my 2 pcs gezz must lost the plot
l remember doing this with win 98 easy.
damm pcs.

l going try again tonight hope l dont go crazy in the atempt. :-)
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: Trev on December 24, 2007, 06:57:33 AM
Perhaps the simplest way to get your Amiga on the network is to bridge the ethernet and wireless adapaters in your PC. You do not need to enable internet connection sharing.

With bridging enabled, you'll manage a single virtual interface in your PC, which should be configured to use DHCP if you have a router or other device acting as a DHCP server.

Configure Miami to use DHCP as well. With bridging enable on the PC, all frames sent from your Amiga will be relayed through the bridge to the rest of the network. The bridge knows which devices are on which physical link and will relay frames between the segments as required.

Note, you can use static addresses if you want. With bridging enable, all devices are on the same subnet, e.g. 192.168.0.0/24. In that case, your router might be 192.168.0.1, your PC might be 192.168.0.2, and your Amiga might be 192.168.0.3. The subnet mask is 24 bits, 255.255.255.0. The default gateway is the router, 192.168.0.1. If you router provides DNS forwarding, your primary DNS server would be 192.168.0.1, too. (The router itself would use your ISP's DNS servers.)

All traffic between the Amiga and the PC will stay on the link between the Amiga and the PC. Any broadcast traffic from the Amiga, e.g. DHCP requests, will be forwarded to the router's segment.

All traffic from the Amiga destined for the router or a local host on the router's segment will be forwarded by the PC to the router's segment.

All traffic from the router or the router's segment destined for the Amiga will be forwarded by the PC to the Amiga.

(Internet connection sharing is convenient if your PC is connected directly to the Internet or another "public" network and you want to share that connection with other systems. Bridging is not used in thise case, and instead, the PC acts as a router. The local interface selected during the configuration of connection sharing will be assigned a static IP address by Windows and will host a small DHCP service. At any rate, it shouldn't be necessary in your case.)

(Some folks have also mentioned using the system's IP address as its default gateway, e.g. an IP of 192.168.0.3 and a gateway of 192.168.0.3. What this does is send all frames out to the local segment unmodified. It provides a convenient way to logically subnet a network without a router. It's particularly useful when using virtual networks in Virtual Server, VMware, and other products when it's not possible to set up virtual segments or you don't want to waste resources running a virtual host as a router. Note that it doesn't actually do what segmenting and subnetting were intended to do, which is reduce congestion on a local segment.)

Trev
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 24, 2007, 03:13:09 PM
I have installed genesis to see if it was a miami realated problem, but genesis refuses to work as well. It goes online as miami, but no packets in or out.
Genesis says a warning message: sana2_getaddresses() failed.
I hve been searching through google with no luck.
I'm using an a1200 1d4 board and a apollo 030 50 mhz on this miggy. could be the id4 revision the problem as someone suggested above?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: meega on December 24, 2007, 03:33:23 PM
Does the mmu work on your Apollo?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 24, 2007, 03:42:51 PM
This Apollo mounts a 68ec030, so no mmu on the chip. It has a coprocessor socket for putting in a copro.
It's this card: http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/apollo1230mk1
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: meega on December 24, 2007, 04:04:00 PM
So how does the Apollo map its memory? What range does it use?
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: _ThEcRoW on December 24, 2007, 04:16:09 PM
$1C00000-$23FFFFF  (8.0 meg)
that says in showconfig.
Also board +rom (HD?) (unidentified): Prod=8738/35($2222/$23) (@$E90000 64k)
I got all the memory at booting minus the required for loading the os kernel and various things, so i think that the accelerator runs fine.
Title: Re: Amiga 1200 and pc networked by crossover cable
Post by: meega on December 24, 2007, 04:30:43 PM
And what range does the PCMCIA device use? Can you test using the Blizzard and do you still get the problem?