Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: _caddy_ on September 07, 2004, 10:53:01 PM

Title: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 07, 2004, 10:53:01 PM
providing a reasonable licence from nintendo - not highly likely, but not totally impossible, gamecubes use  PPC processors, and ATI radeon hardware - if i'm not mistaken, so do the A1's, how possiblw would it be to port games?

how possible would it be for a gamecube on a card, in the same veign ans that psx one for the mac

i mean think of the possibilities of this, the total opposite of what xbox is, microsoft would pack their pants.


just a thought
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 07, 2004, 10:59:33 PM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
how possible would it be for a gamecube on a card, in the same veign ans that psx one for the mac
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

You do understand that GameCube, like all modern consoles, is sold at a loss, right?  Even if you could reduce the number of components (since you are providing the A1) and make a large batch of "cards", it would be more expensive than buying a new GameCube at retail.  And remember, if you want to do this legally, you need to go to Nintendo.  To meet the copy proteciton requirements (since you are doing this legit with Nintendo) you will need to use the same drive mechanism that the gamecube does as it's been modified for thier copy protection.

Those are just the first few things that make your idea un-viable.

You could ask Creative Labs how well thier 3DO Blaster sold.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 07, 2004, 11:01:51 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i mean think of the possibilities of this, the total opposite of what xbox is, microsoft would pack their pants.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You mean, designing something to add cost to something you can buy cheaper somewhere else?  Yes,  that's the opposite of Xbox.


Here's a counter-thought:
Amiga's have genlocks, right?  And they are cheap (eBay) now, right?

Why not design a cable, let's call it a "composite" cable that uses the Amiga and Genlock you already have to interface with popular game hardware you license (okay, buy at retail) for M$, $ony, and NE$.

In this way, you can have a multi-console system interface, and show your system's superiority to all the console makers!
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 07, 2004, 11:12:23 PM
i think you miss the point, or misunderstand what i mean


good decent games available on the amiga streight away

nintendo get their licencing fee, because more people buy the games,


and what i meant by opposite is that ms are a comp company
nintendo are a console company

and each other would be dabbling in foreign territory - you have realised xbox is just a PC right :P
[qoute]
You do understand that GameCube, like all modern consoles, is sold at a loss, right?
[/quote] - i know that. i got a B in games and entertainment technology at uni thank you very much.



Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Holley on September 07, 2004, 11:13:27 PM
Now if you could run OS4 on Gamecube ... (what are they, 400MHz?)

It's worth noting the A1 already has a good working PS1 emulator.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 07, 2004, 11:16:41 PM
but psx is aged, newer games, mean newer/more gamers interested, yeah?, i mean, if that wasnt the case, why did ps2 come out?

i mean, i dont have debian linux running on my dreamcast for nothing you know! :P


Quote

You could ask Creative Labs how well thier 3DO Blaster sold.
 

how well did the 3do do??

how many people still have emulated snes, or gameboys, or megadrives , how many people have an emulator of some kid or another.

why's this?

because of the popularity of the actual console


the psx mac card only got stopped bacause sony sued
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 07, 2004, 11:21:42 PM
----------------------------------------------------------
nintendo get their licencing fee, because more people buy the games,
----------------------------------------------------------
They sell 10,000 consoles a day.  Do you think they would even feel the impact if all A1 users did what you describe?


----------------------------------------------------------
and what i meant by opposite is that ms are a comp company
nintendo are a console company
----------------------------------------------------------
Don't know what that comment means.  Both Xbox and Nintendo make money from software sales, not console sales.



----------------------------------------------------------
you have realised xbox is just a PC right :P
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm reasonably sure it's a game console.



----------------------------------------------------------
- i know that. i got a B in games and entertainment technology at uni thank you very much.
----------------------------------------------------------
Uh... Okay.




@Holley
----------------------------------------------------------
Now if you could run OS4 on Gamecube ... (what are they, 400MHz?)
----------------------------------------------------------
Would be cool!
-edit-

Why can't Cloanto sell a version of Amiga forever for Xbox?!?!  It would seem to be free money, since Intellivision Lives, Midway/Atari Classics, etc have all come out for Xbox and are really just MAME-clones.

A big Boing logo on the box -- that would get Amiga's image in front of people again, and it would sell!
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: adolescent on September 07, 2004, 11:29:55 PM
I never understood the use of a $2000 computer to run games from a $100 console.  Emulators (in hardware or software) just don't offer the true feeling of the original console.  Nor are any of them perfect.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 07, 2004, 11:35:06 PM
who cares whether its 10'000 or 10, its still more


----------------------------------------------------------
you have realised xbox is just a PC right :P
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm reasonably sure it's a game console. - hahaha, sarchasm

----------------------------------------------------------
- i know that. i got a B in games and entertainment technology at uni thank you very much.
----------------------------------------------------------
Uh... Okay. - well i'm guessing that university must be a foreign concept to you, and its a module on the games industry.


Don't know what that comment means. Both Xbox and Nintendo make money from software sales, not console sales.
 - yes, but software designed for what platforms?
oh yeah, PC and a console. M$ didnt make their money from consols - mind you neither did nintendo originally - if we're going that far back

besides mate, this is a theoretical situation, not a feasibility study
oh, and
i'll qoute my original post - "not highly likely"
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 07, 2004, 11:40:31 PM

adolescent wrote:
I never understood the use of a $2000 computer to run games from a $100 console.  Emulators (in hardware or software) just don't offer the true feeling of the original console.  Nor are any of them perfect.[/quote]

i agree, but anything to get amiga back where it used to be(where it belongs) is a good thing right?
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 07, 2004, 11:42:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well i'm guessing that university must be a foreign concept to you, and its a module on the games industry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll let my profile answer that moronic comment.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 07, 2004, 11:47:45 PM
well i was guessing thet since you seem to know lots about the feasibility of what i said, that you'd been
and no - i didnt read the profile, but again, you obviusly didnt read the original post, and before you start , this isn't a flame war, so give over

and how can the comment be moronic, i'd kinda think more ironic, due to the circumstances
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: angrybrit on September 08, 2004, 12:28:46 AM
I am amazed that every other post was off topic.  Can you people read? :lol:

#1 - Highly probably would work.  See XBox emulator.

#2 - Very doable.

#3 - You mean: Since MS took the PC games (FPS, Online Gaming) to the consoles.  And taking the consoles games to the PCs?  IMO consoles are directed at people who are kids/adolescents and don't have the patience to learn all that jargon that comes with a personal computer.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 08, 2004, 12:42:52 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO consoles are directed at people who are kids/adolescents and don't have the patience to learn all that jargon that comes with a personal computer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A narrow-minded opinion.  But if we went with your assumption that this was the case, why would the “more mature and more patient” PC gamers want the console games ported in the first place?
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 12:45:57 AM
Quote

_caddy_ wrote:


- i know that. i got a B in games and entertainment technology at uni thank you very much.

[/quote]

They teach games at university now ?  Sheesh, I had to learn formal methods, CASE, COBOL, PASCAL, C, ADA, Real-time systems programming, distributed systems, AI, LANs/WANs, Operating System design, database design and documentation.  Not one module of gaming to be seen back then!  Bugger!

And to top it off after 6 years in university how many of those skills do you think I now use ?  That's right .. sod all, now I do SANs and NAS ... oh well.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 12:52:01 AM
Quote

angrybrit wrote:

IMO consoles are directed at people who are kids/adolescents and don't have the patience to learn all that jargon that comes with a personal computer.


Yeah right ... I bought an Xbox for simple fact that I don't have to worry if the game I bought will run on it because it needs 5Tb of RAM or an 8squiggleHz CPU and $5000 of cash stuffed into the USB port.

As to limited PC experience ? Well I work for IBM so I'm supposed to know the odd thing about IT.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 12:56:44 AM
Quote

_caddy_ wrote:
providing a reasonable licence from nintendo - not highly likely, but not totally impossible, gamecubes use  PPC processors, and ATI radeon hardware - if i'm not mistaken, so do the A1's, how possiblw would it be to port games?

how possible would it be for a gamecube on a card, in the same veign ans that psx one for the mac

i mean think of the possibilities of this, the total opposite of what xbox is, microsoft would pack their pants.


just a thought


In a perfect trusting world it might work, but as someone has already mentioned 3DO tried the whole licensing of hardware to multiple parties and they went belly up.

Plus Nintendo have always been quite jealous of guarding their technology and how would you load those funny disks they use on a PC ? (aren't they an propriatory format ?)
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 01:02:53 AM
Quote

Why can't Cloanto sell a version of Amiga forever for Xbox?!?!  It would seem to be free money, since Intellivision Lives, Midway/Atari Classics, etc have all come out for Xbox and are really just MAME-clones.

A big Boing logo on the box -- that would get Amiga's image in front of people again, and it would sell!


You should know the answer to that being an Xbox helpdesk support person ... Cloanto would have to buy the Xbox developer system (doubt it's cheap), then get the disks manufactured (after all they are not standard .. more money), then how would people get the games onto the Xbox ? (most Xbox's choke on CD-R's) or would the user have to chip their Xbox ? (MS would freak at that and cancel Cloanto's developer contract)  Or would they use the ethernet connection to a PC ? (in which case, why not use the PC version of Amiga Forever)  Then you have to remember that the majority of Xbox owners were'nt born when amiga was about and would say the games look and sound {bleep}e :-)
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 08, 2004, 01:19:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------
then how would people get the games onto the Xbox ? (most Xbox's choke on CD-R's) or would the user have to chip their Xbox ? (MS would freak at that and cancel Cloanto's developer contract) Or would they use the ethernet connection to a PC ? (in which case, why not use the PC version of Amiga Forever)
--------------------------------------------------------

A good point.  Actually, I had assumed that Amiga Forever shipped with some of the older classics.  If I'm wrong in that assumption, it would not really be a worthwhile port.

However, if it sold okay, you could download additional games for a nominal fee via Xbox Live.  Old developers might like this as they are always looking for a way to get some extra money from old properties.  I think Sierra/Vivendi, UBISoft, LucasArts and EA would all allow premium content downloads.


--------------------------------------------------------
Then you have to remember that the majority of Xbox owners were'nt born when amiga was about and would say the games look and sound {bleep}e
--------------------------------------------------------

By all accounts, Intellivision Lives! and Midway Arcade Treasures were sucessful titles.  It's surprising how many folks are nostalgic for this stuff.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: angrybrit on September 08, 2004, 01:19:52 AM
Quote
FastRobPlus wrote:
A narrow-minded opinion.  But if we went with your assumption that this was the case, why would the “more mature and more patient” PC gamers want the console games ported in the first place?

Narrow-minded opinion?  IMO it's very accurate.

Which console games need to be ported?
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 08, 2004, 01:21:13 AM
@Ronald

Sorry you feel this way.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: angrybrit on September 08, 2004, 01:27:33 AM
Quote
Sparky wrote:

Yeah right ... I bought an Xbox for simple fact that I don't have to worry if the game I bought will run on it because it needs 5Tb of RAM or an 8squiggleHz CPU and $5000 of cash stuffed into the USB port.

As to limited PC experience ? Well I work for IBM so I'm supposed to know the odd thing about IT.

You work at IBM?  I'm very happy for you.  Too bad, it's irrelevant in this conversation. <_<

So you mean to tell me that you will skip all MMORPGs, 100% of RTS, 90% of FPS games (which those who will get to the XBox will be mostly low end versions of those PC FPS games) and limit your online experience (16 player servers, WTF)? :lol:  :-o
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 01:29:39 AM
Quote

FastRobPlus wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------
Then you have to remember that the majority of Xbox owners were'nt born when amiga was about and would say the games look and sound {bleep}e
--------------------------------------------------------

By all accounts, Intellivision Lives! and Midway Arcade Treasures were sucessful titles.  It's surprising how many folks are nostalgic for this stuff.


Ahh but I bet you it is bought by old farts like us who remember playing them years ago :-)  

Kids today want wizzy graphics and sound as well as bouncy breasts (ala DOA Beach Volleyball :-)  "Gameplay" comes second.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 01:31:04 AM
i'd tend to agree here, if you spend all the time upgrading hardware and software just to play a game, and sometimes it doesnt work even after that, a console is there so you can turn it on and play.

wether its a case of lazyness - (i cant be arsed messing to get it workin) ineptitude (i have no clue how to get it working) or pure impatience (i just wanna play)

why bother with all the hasslte, sometimes u just wanna play a game, and thats it

snes 10 min fix - turn it on, have ur fix, turn it off

kills time in between doing other things


[qoute]Kids today want wizzy graphics and sound as well as bouncy breasts (ala DOA Beach Volleyball  "Gameplay" comes second.[/quote] - isn't this an unfortunate truth

Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 08, 2004, 01:34:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh but I bet you it is bought by old farts like us who remember playing them years ago  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I might be getting old...  I bought a game for my PS/2 but it didn't fit in the drive. When did that happen?  I wanna play Dance Dance Revolution in MCGA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kids today want wizzy graphics and sound as well as bouncy breasts (ala DOA Beach Volleyball  "Gameplay" comes second.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not true!  They want to play Outlaw Vollyball, beacuse.  Oh, wait...
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 01:34:37 AM
Quote

angrybrit wrote:

So you mean to tell me that you will skip all MMORPGs, 100% of RTS, 90% of FPS games (which those who will get to the XBox will be mostly low end versions of those PC FPS games) and limit your online experience (16 player servers, WTF)? :lol:  :-o


Hands up who has a machine capable of running Doom3 PROPERLY!

That's right no-one has!  I don't see the point in having to upgrade my PC everytime a new game comes out ... I'm just not that sad!  I'd rather buy a console that is good for 2-3 years worth of games and costs 15% of a PC that runs the same games only slightly better (and sometimes worse .. ie. Splinter Cell and Halo)
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 01:37:27 AM
raises hand**
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 01:39:10 AM
Quote

_caddy_ wrote:
raises hand**


Really so you have a graphics card with 512Mb of RAM on it ?  Which one would that be ?
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 01:41:19 AM
no, but my 256meg one runs it just fine, it runs properly, and a reasonable speed, that's as properly as anyones going to get
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 01:46:09 AM
Quote

_caddy_ wrote:
no, but my 256meg one runs it just fine, it runs properly, and a reasonable speed, that's as properly as anyones going to get


But that is not running the game PROPERLY ... to run the "Ultimate" settings you need a minimum of 512Mb of RAM on the graphics card, anything less and you get lots of texture swapping across the bus (and here I guess you are AGP and not PCI-Express ?)

So to sum up, you have a PC that is capable of leting you play the game, but not of letting you see the game run at 100% quality.  Better be a good PC gamer and buy a NZ$2000 QuadroFX so you can play your NZ$80 game ....
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 08, 2004, 01:51:22 AM
I'd say this thread has gotten silly, but that would pre-suppose that it started out inteligently.

Let's just port Doom3 to OS4 and run it on our Intellivision's A1 emulator and call it good.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 01:53:28 AM
nope, running the game properly would just running the game without crashes

thats just running the game on max settings

Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 02:01:56 AM
its gonna come out for mac soon, so its definatly feasable
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 02:03:23 AM
Quote

FastRobPlus wrote:
I'd say this thread has gotten silly, but that would pre-suppose that it started out inteligently.

Let's just port Doom3 to OS4 and run it on our Intellivision's A1 emulator and call it good.


Well it has drifter off topic a bit :-)

I'm just trying to get across that people buy consoles to play games and PC's for internety/e-maily/work stuff.  Horses for courses ...

PC's make bad gaming rigs (due to cost).

Plus the other blokey DOESN'T have the full spec machine to play Doom3 no matter how much he says he does :-)
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 02:08:51 AM
Quote

_caddy_ wrote:
its gonna come out for mac soon, so its definatly feasable


Don't be silly!  An elegant OS does not counter the fact that modern PC's and the G5 Macs have HUGE memory bandwidth ... the AmigaOne is running PC133 SDRAM!  In single channel!  It hasn't a hope in hell of being able to shove the amount of data around that Doom3 requires.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 02:12:44 AM
Plus the other blokey DOESN'T have the full spec machine to play Doom3 no matter how much he says he does


it plays doom 3 fine

just because its not in max settings, doiesnt mean it doesnt run without a hitch

i get to play the game, and i'm assuming you can work this out.

min specs for doom 3:

1.5Ghz P4 chip or AMD Athlon 1500
384Mb of RAM
2Gb of hard drive space.
An nVidia GeForce 3 or ATI 8500 graphics card

i have above those specs , and therefore i can run doom 3

who cares about max graphics, as you yourself pointed out!!!


/aicmfp
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 02:13:51 AM
Quote

Sparky wrote:
Quote

_caddy_ wrote:
its gonna come out for mac soon, so its definatly feasable


Don't be silly!  An elegant OS does not counter the fact that modern PC's and the G5 Macs have HUGE memory bandwidth ... the AmigaOne is running PC133 SDRAM!  In single channel!  It hasn't a hope in hell of being able to shove the amount of data around that Doom3 requires.


i know that, you people have never heard someone take the piss??
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: kd7ota on September 08, 2004, 02:35:23 AM
Well,

Since im at a young age, I can say that most of the games new do not interest me at all.

Ever since the Dreamcast.....Well, games have been repeated over and over. What I miss most is the gameplay!
I like how you can do alot in a game... I can careless for graphics now. I dislike games today because they have too much graphics, but not enough gameplace.

I dont care for Unreal Tournament 2003 or 2004. Ummm.... Unreal Tournament has such awsome musics, graphics, and even gameplay. Something about that game sets the First Person Shooter needs.

Racing games.... Soo much out there. Who wants to play the same boring upgrade cars, race...race...and more race???
Sorry, but I think ill go to the arcades and bust out Daytona USA and race and get it over with.  :-)



Im not being bitter about all the games being produced. Dont get me wrong, there can be some good games, but then there are too many of the same kind...

The next game im hyped up about is Worlds of Warcraft...

Final Fantasy 11 is a complete joke....hehehehe..


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


All In all, this post is not meant to be taken personally.  Just given you a point of view of how someone like me sees the console gaming industry...  :-)
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: FastRobPlus on September 08, 2004, 03:05:32 AM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since im at a young age, I can say that most of the games new do not interest me at all.

Ever since the Dreamcast.....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

You could substitute "Amiga" for Dreamcast for a lot of folks.  Or SNES, or NES, or Atari, etc...

Just wait a few years, you'll start hearing "Games have not been original since the days of the Xbox and PS2"
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: BigBenAussie on September 08, 2004, 03:09:36 AM
My bro reckons he got his chipped XBox playing 1000s of Amiga games on a single CD. I'm overseas at the moment so I can't tell you how good the quality is.

You buy a PC for gaming only if you intend to keep it cutting edge. Only on a PC can you play games at an impossibly detailed res, with an impossibly vast pallette, at an impossibly fast frame rate. If you can't do that, then why bother. It doesn't make your PC useless if you can't, but don't cry when Game X makes you have to upgrade for the same experience over and over again. Its what drives home PC sales afterall.

I'm sick of the upgrade cycle, and perhaps that is why I would consider an Amiga, because God knows there'll hardly be any hardware worth upgrading to any time soon, like in the good'ol days. You can do more with less sometimes as most Amigans know.

I think we've gone off topic again....anyway....
How hard would it be to get an GameCube emulator running on an Amiga One or PegasOS bearing in mind some of the hardware similarities. It would beat the pants of FPSE if it was possible.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: Sparky on September 08, 2004, 04:10:00 AM
Quote

BigBenAussie wrote:

I think we've gone off topic again....anyway....
How hard would it be to get an GameCube emulator running on an Amiga One or PegasOS bearing in mind some of the hardware similarities. It would beat the pants of FPSE if it was possible.


Might not even be possible, though the CPU is a PowerPC it is connected to bus at a higher speed than what the AmigaOne has, the memory is higher bandwidth as well .. don't think the AmigaOne has enough grunt to do it ... Pegasos might be able to pull off the trick as it's got the better memory system, but even then there is a lot to emulate.  Then you just need to figure out how to read the 3" disks ...

http://www.area3d.net/story.php?id=629

For the GameCube specs.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: McNorris on September 08, 2004, 04:26:53 AM
Look I am not a Linux advocate, but some guys are already working on cube Linux.

UAE the $100 A1, not really but $100 for UAE perf isn't bad...

Of course CubeLinux is still just a toy in the works and their are drive/media issues with the Cube. (Nintendo was damned clever with their protection). Perhaps a nifty, multimedia node???

For those interested...

http://www.gc-linux.org/
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: _caddy_ on September 08, 2004, 12:51:27 PM
it cant be that had to copy gc discs

i've heard that someone has written a program for gamecube, so that it will read from its own network adaptor
then you can stream games images off you're hard drive onto the cube, and it thinks its reading them from cd


apparently this was developed for testing homebrew games, but suddenly appeard on the pirate scene as a way of pirating  games - i've also heard that you can change the the cube, by getting a bigger box, and it'll read dvd's


Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: seer on September 08, 2004, 03:00:43 PM
Hands up who has a machine capable of running Doom3 PROPERLY!

Define properly.

Running it here on a P4 2.6Ghz 1GB ram, Parhelia 128Mb. At a res of 1024*768, ultra quality, (500Mb worth of textures) only "shadows" and AA are turned of. Works great here, 20 FPS when there are (several) monsters around.

/edit

Search some gaming forums on how to get DoomIII running.

like this (http://forums.game2xs.com/showthread.php?t=2439)

and

this (http://www.chrishammond.com/archive/2004/08/05/206.aspx)

That's enough offtopic  ;-)
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: adolescent on September 08, 2004, 06:54:53 PM
It's not that hard to copy GC games, but it's impossible to play copied DVDs.
Title: Re: GameCubes
Post by: McNorris on September 08, 2004, 10:18:25 PM
I got a cube for the variety of games and titles available on it. And as a Mac owner I know how important it is to support your platform of choice (or an Amiga user, even more so).

I don't mind paying for games. In fact I think it the only ethical and honest thing to do.

What sucks about the new gen consoles is they are all dis-based and discs scratch!!! My buddy's kids have trashed more than one game by trying to bean the other lads with one (Oh well, they're learning). The older cartidge-based consoles were almost bulletproof.

Try asking one of the publishers for a backup at a reasonable price. I did. You'll get laughed at or told to return the disc (w/$$$) for the new one. Most won't replace a disc if it didn't ship damaged.

I truely wish I could make backups of my gamecube discs, but I have'nt heard of any other way than the Phantasie Star broadband exploit (I.E. network adapter) to do this.

While it may be the only way. It's a drag. The beauty of the consoles is "buy a game, put it in, turn it on, play."