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Author Topic: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64  (Read 4792 times)

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Offline Argo

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 28, 2013, 06:26:03 AM »
Problem is Microsoft assumed that most would upgrade their computer thus getting Windows 8. Reality is the economy sucks, slow growth. So, people are keeping with computers longer, maybe upgrading it. If they do buy, it'll be better spec'd than what they have but low end. So none of those wiz bang features you mentioned. Basically, an upgraded version of what they had that runs Windows 8. Though likely not much of an upgrade save for graphics as required by Metro. Hell, I ran the alpha and betas on a 10+ year old computer and it ran as well as 7 and XP on that machine. Vista, that was a pig and it really showed on that machine.
 

Offline djos

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2013, 06:27:42 AM »
Quote from: LoadWB;733144
FTFY.  If you spend the right amount of money on a PC, you'll have a machine which will last several years.  A $300 Wal*Mart or Best Buy special ain't gonna make it.

I build machines for around $1000 (and that's retail, I *do* make a profit, you know) which absolutely will last five years, and can even keep up with bloated software.  Of course, that's when the warranties run out heheheheh


I used to build my own well equipped machines too, didnt make them last any longer.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1220 16Mhz 128MB w/ RTC, 4GB CF-HDD, Roland MT-32 MIDI Synthesiser
Amiga 500 w/ KS2.05, 1Mb Chip-Ram, CF-IDE w/4MB Fast-Ram, FDD Boot Selector, HxC RevC Floppy emulator
Commodore 64 w/ 1541 Ultimate-II inc Tape Adapter, JiffyDOS, 1541 Disk Drive, 1531 Datasette, Flyer Net Modem
 

Offline Argo

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2013, 07:03:14 AM »
Quote from: gertsy;733149
The recent apps start menu capability has been in place since Vista (2006).


For me, if Windows 8 had a Start button that was just that it would be prefect. The Charm bar has the rest. In Windows 7, you can kinda get that through the properties but you still end up with empty space on the right.
 

Offline Argo

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2013, 07:13:03 AM »
Quote from: djos;733152
I used to build my own well equipped machines too, didnt make them last any longer.


Works for me. Current rig is 7 years old. Upgraded the RAM and CPU a few years ago. Will be doing a big rebuild this August to take advantage of back to school sales. Cheaper than buying a new pre-made brandname rig that needs to be replace about every three years and better than a bargain cheapo rig that works for just now.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2013, 07:26:30 AM »
Quote from: djos;733152
I used to build my own well equipped machines too, didnt make them last any longer.


"Well-equiped" and quality don't always match up.  My box is an Intel DQ965GBF with an X6700 Core2Quad, four 500GB Western Digital RAID Edition drives and a recent addition of an Intel 120GB SSD.  All purchased from channel.  Pretty much been running five years straight (with various pauses for moves, upgrades, or extended power-outages when the UPS runs down) without a single failure.

Aside from that, I'm proud that have numerous machines at customer sites which have run their five-year courses without problems.
 

Offline djos

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2013, 07:36:12 AM »
Im a former Mac & PC HW tech and Windows Server Admin so I know a thing or two about building a decent machine - it's not the HW that is the problem, it's the Windows OS and bloat filled software that is the issue! rebuilding you PC every 12-18months is just accepted norm and it really shouldn't be - on top of that almost every new WinOS version gobbles up more and more resources for no real gain!

Mac's dont have Registries to get filled up with sh!te and the dont suffer from DLL hell from every app installing their own bits of crap through out the Windows and System/32 folders.

99% of Mac software is 100% self contained and to remove it is as simple as deleting the icon from the apps folder. Extension all live in the Extensions folder so if one plays up it's very easy to troubleshoot. Most Mac software doesnt even have an installer as installing it is as simple as dragging it to the Applications folder - it's all very simple and just works.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 07:38:59 AM by djos »
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1220 16Mhz 128MB w/ RTC, 4GB CF-HDD, Roland MT-32 MIDI Synthesiser
Amiga 500 w/ KS2.05, 1Mb Chip-Ram, CF-IDE w/4MB Fast-Ram, FDD Boot Selector, HxC RevC Floppy emulator
Commodore 64 w/ 1541 Ultimate-II inc Tape Adapter, JiffyDOS, 1541 Disk Drive, 1531 Datasette, Flyer Net Modem
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2013, 08:39:08 AM »
Quote from: djos;733159
Im a former Mac & PC HW tech and Windows Server Admin so I know a thing or two about building a decent machine - it's not the HW that is the problem, it's the Windows OS and bloat filled software that is the issue! rebuilding you PC every 12-18months is just accepted norm and it really shouldn't be - on top of that almost every new WinOS version gobbles up more and more resources for no real gain!

Mac's dont have Registries to get filled up with sh!te and the dont suffer from DLL hell from every app installing their own bits of crap through out the Windows and System/32 folders.

99% of Mac software is 100% self contained and to remove it is as simple as deleting the icon from the apps folder. Extension all live in the Extensions folder so if one plays up it's very easy to troubleshoot. Most Mac software doesnt even have an installer as installing it is as simple as dragging it to the Applications folder - it's all very simple and just works.

Your credentials are impeccable.  I am a current PC technician and server administrator, and have been doing so now for almost 20 years.  I do not subscribe to your interpretation of the PC world.  In a managed environment, rebuilding a workstation every year is absolutely NOT the norm and if I ever said that to any of my business customers they'd fire me on the spot for trying to bilk them of their money.  I've found that in almost all cases it's shyt software and drivers, not Windows, which is largely responsible for problems or instances in which the only recovery is to re-load Windows.  (Like your example of programs putting stuff in system32 where it doesn't belong or loading up crap in the registry.)  In other cases it's corruption caused by shyt hardware.

Windows has a large installation foot print, for certain.  The performance, however, does actually get better, even with the relative bloat of the DotNet platform.  I've run Windows 7 and Windows 8 on machines formerly running Windows XP and both out-perform XP in most regards.  Though Windows 8 ceased working on some of the older P4 machines as of the release of Customer Preview 2 as it requires NX support from the CPU and PAE support from the system itself.

I don't hold a lot of love for Windows, nor am I a Windows fan-boy or Microsoft apologist.  I admire the relative ease of OSX and its approach to applications and user environment, for certain.  In fact, the absolute easiest old-to-new computer migration I've ever done was on a Mac, moving a customer from an OS8 iMac to an OSX iMac.  I had to dismantle the old machine because the release of OS8 was one revision to old to support direct Firewire transfer to the new machine, but once I connected that drive to the new iMac and ran the import wizard (or whatever the heck it is) the user's data and settings came over perfectly.  No FAST or WET to muck about with and hope it works.  While I was installing Office for Mac updates I decided to give the Bluetooth a drive until it got a little too friendly with my phone.

I admin Linux and Solaris servers, too, though I prefer the latter over the former by a long shot (until Oracle completely phuqs it up, that is.)  Every OS has its place and purpose.  Solaris (eh, and Linux, I guess) makes a great server and a fairly good desktop.  Mac is great for most people who just want stuff to work* and never want to move too far outside of the box, not to mention the Mac walled garden is exceptionally easy for Apple to support as they're practically all the same.  (I've considered Mac for my parents, but they love Windows 7 and never have problems so I'll just leave it alone.)

* Except for network printers which don't support PostScript, like Konica and Savin/Ricoh for which PS is an extra module to purchase.

In a small business, however, nothing beats Microsoft out-of-the-box, period.  It's an expensive investment but it has everything needed in one integrated package, something you'd have to cobble together in other systems which try to emulate what Microsoft offers.  Sure, I could offer Linux or Mac to my customers with a bunch of stuff crunched together to work, but that will not settle the issue of compatibility with Windows-based applications for which alternate OS versions do not exist.  Not to mention when presented with the fact that only a couple of people around here would be able to support it if I died or get fired, that's just not a suitable option.

I'm retiring some Small Business Server 2003 servers this year which have been operational for six to eight years.  (For the record: not my choice as I do like to replace server hardware when warranties run out.)  They're still running just as good as the day I installed them.

I'd like to run in large enterprise environments where I can have Windows and Solaris machines (or AIX, HP-UX, or whatever) running in concert and harmony, but that's not the realm I work right now.  And once I reach my higher aspirations none of that will matter, anyway.

It's late, I'm still writing a final paper, and have finals to review for the week, so this rambling thread hijack isn't a beneficial venture for me.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 08:43:24 AM by LoadWB »
 

Offline djos

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Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2013, 09:43:51 AM »
Some very good points there but I'm not talking about corporate desktops (although the Amount bloatware HP makes us install on our corp laptops is truly obscene!), mainly I'm talking about consumer systems where a much broader range software and hardware gets installed and frigged with.

I'm not anti-windows by any stretch, I just prefer mac's as my main machine at home but I do run windows 7 on 2 machines still; a netbook that monitors my solar system and energy consumption and uploads it to PVO and a quad core PC, that lives in my garage with my server and comms gear, for occasional use via RDP.

I also run a hp microserver with whs2011 and stablebit drivepool plus twonky media server, sickbeard and sabnzbd amongst other things.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 09:47:18 AM by djos »
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Amiga 1200 w/ ACA1220 16Mhz 128MB w/ RTC, 4GB CF-HDD, Roland MT-32 MIDI Synthesiser
Amiga 500 w/ KS2.05, 1Mb Chip-Ram, CF-IDE w/4MB Fast-Ram, FDD Boot Selector, HxC RevC Floppy emulator
Commodore 64 w/ 1541 Ultimate-II inc Tape Adapter, JiffyDOS, 1541 Disk Drive, 1531 Datasette, Flyer Net Modem
 

Offline psxphill

Re: OMG Commodore Invented WIndows 8 on the C64
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2013, 10:58:36 AM »
Quote from: djos;733159
Mac's dont have Registries to get filled up with sh!te and the dont suffer from DLL hell from every app installing their own bits of crap through out the Windows and System/32 folders.

MacOS does actually have it's own DLL hell issues, do a google for it.
 
MacOS doesn't have a registry, but apps do store their settings and other files on your hard drive in areas that don't get automatically deleted when you delete the application.
 
You can argue that the issues aren't as bad for various reasons, but the main reason is because MacOS isn't used in the same way as Windows. If MacOS and Windows changed placed then you'd get all the same bloatware and crap being installed on your Mac, but it's just not worth anyone's time right now.
 
You only have to look at how Apple touted that you didn't need virus protection because MacOS was secure. Well it wasn't, it was just that nobody was writing virus protection software because nobody could be bothered to write virus'. As soon as MacOS was the first to be taken out at pwn2own Apple had to actually admit there was a problem and start doing security audits.
 
You could just as easily argue that AROS was better because there hasn't been a single virus or malware for it. However without memory or access protection it's as vunerable as you can get.
 
Windows isn't perfect, but you can't say that an operating system is better than Windows if it's not actually meeting the same objectives as Windows. If another operating system meets your requirements and works in a way that you prefer then I'm happy for you, but I have very good reasons for staying with Windows (and up until 13 years ago I had only ever owned a commodore 64, amiga 500 & amiga 1200).