Number 3 gets my vote.
buh... I live here... *violin*You're more than welcome to stay. We have a special room reserved just for you. The rent however might fluctuate with the new landlord.. :)
Helpful as always I see :roflmao:
Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes ... *snip*
Chris,
Your attitude, while understandable (and unfortunately all too common), isn't very helpful to this situation. Yes, if I closed the site today, people would simply wander off to other sites. Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes, but I think you truly miss the point.
There may be other sites, but there will never be another Amiga.org.
Wayne
What if nobody is interested and the ebay auction doesn't cough up more than say a couple of thousand?
-edit-
Maybe the Mozilla bounty can be put to something useful now =).
*Somebody* has to maintain this site. Can't stress enough how important we have a Stateside based Amiga site and forums. I've met LOTS of great folks here (in person and online) where deals and get-togethers have actually gone through. News just keeps getting sadder and sadder these days :-(Again, I've said this clearly, but Amiga.org isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I just think it needs someone in the captain's chair who actually appreciates the Amiga for what it is.
@ Wayne
Why not turn the site over to the current moderators for a while? It's been said before Wayne that you should take a break from here so here's the perfect oppotunity for you to do so - you even mention the fact that you feel like you need a vacation from here in your first post in the thread.
Had that done to me in the past with a tutorial of mine on here Wayne and it's not pleasent ... all they had to do was ask instead of steal.
@ Wayne
Why not turn the site over to the current moderators for a while? It's been said before Wayne that you should take a break from here so here's the perfect oppotunity for you to do so - you even mention the fact that you feel like you need a vacation from here in your first post in the thread.
As for me, a "vacation" isn't the answer. The site's "pretty much run itself" for far too long and needs someone who's interested in making the site a better place and more worthy of supporting the community than I simply have to give it any more.
It is a tough situation, Wayne. I think the word that best describes your feelings (as I understand them) is 'disenchanted.'The community is EXACTLY what sells when website transactions take place...
I took on a huge project of my own and while it wasn't running as long as Amiga.org, it cost me a year's wages (£30k) and exposed me to some difficult and dangerous conditions down in South Africa. I currently have the fruit of those efforts here on my desk: a 700 page manuscript to do with forensics and ballistics. I don't know what price tag I can put on it, but it is all my own work and content and it cannot be published (and I've become 'disenchanted' with trying to do so)
There are similarities here. We put in effort into a project or endeavour that we are intensely interested in, and it either doesn't develop into what we had hoped, or we ourselves change direction and realise that what we are working on isn't attractive any longer.
Where things differ, is the perceived value of that project. Why is Amiga.org worth $10k?
I may have this completely wrong, but in my opinion this board is made up of a static and dynamic component. The static component is who owns the website, its logo, format, database etc. The dynamic component is....well, it is US, the members. We are who made this site what it is, and we contribute and provide most of the site's material. You could even argue that we contribute financially to it by feeding the kitty (admittedly I haven't done this for some time, but I have indeed contributed in the past).
The members are the community, the denizens of this board and without them there is no Amiga.org. It doesn't matter whether they are in the sprout or the broccoli camp, they are as an entity a dynamic and invaluable component of what Amiga.org is.
But you can't sell that, or even put a price tag on it. You can't sell US.
It would be different if this was a company and we had all signed contracts, but we come and go as we please, contribute material and advice as we please. Therefore the $10k is for a website that has a definite static component that you own, and an indefinite dynamic component that you don't. A kind of dynamic 'going concern.'
It is by no means certain that the usefulness of the site (by virtue of its members' contributions) will remain the same, as there are no guarantees that members will stay, especially if the atmosphere changes or the way this site is run, changes.
I wish you the best of luck in getting the $10k and I do understand your reasons for asking for it, but I have to tell you that this is a labour of love. As I remarked in another thread about A4000T doors, 'an item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it.' You do however have to be prepared for the buyer who divorces the static and tangible component of the site from the dynamic component. Amiga.org is what it is because of several variables, not all of which are under your control and therefore can be sold.
I appreciate the work you have done in keeping this site up. I appreciate the work of the moderators (especially Karlos of late) and VERY IMPORTANTLY I appreciate the advice I have received over the years from my fellow Amigans.
My Amiga hasn't been used for quite a while and I have been considering selling it. These things happen, I understand why. Members come and go. I miss quite a few of them and many don't post much anymore.
It is fine to be disenchanted, it is fine to move on. The question of value is a more difficult one, and nobody will have an answer that everyone agrees with. All the best for the future.
That's my 2p.
Good morning guys,
A few years ago on April Fool's Day, I played a prank where I "sold Amiga.org to Spanish lesbians".
It was pretty funny back then, and everyone was both laughing and furious at me for weeks. Some even abandoned the site over it, but then again, there are always rats looking to jump ship.
For the last few years, it's been a running joke amongst friends that I should truly sell the site to real spanish lesbians and move on. As always, there's a bit of truth in every joke.
The simple fact is that while I started out being one of the devout fanboys when the community was 200,000 strong, and I loved everything Amiga, I haven't felt that way in many years. In truth, I don't feel that way about ANY computer platform any more.
The result is that running the site itself -- while rewarding -- has been an increasing struggle for me, since I don't use or follow all the drama as closely as I once did. Kind of like a soap opera. I grew up addicted, but over the years too many actors and storylines have changed to keep my interest.
So what does this mean?
Effectively, it means that I'm beginning an active search for someone both able, and interested in buying, then taking over the site.
It could be one person, or a group of partners, but after 15 years of solid dedication, in order to "buy me out", the cost is $10,000 USD.
I know most of the remaining fanboys will start screaming about how I don't have the right to sell the site, or to even expect money for my blood, sweat, and tears, but that 10k is 1/2 of what it's worth, and 1/2 of what I was asking just 5 years ago. It's also one hell of a low price for 15 YEARS of my life.
I just need to pay off some debt and move forward in my life. I can't do that if I spend most of my free time here administering the site and worrying about hackers and/or spammers.
10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.
If no one reads this, and I'm sure no one will, I'm considering putting the site up on eBay on a "until it sells" basis with a reserve on October 1st.
Lock, stock, and barrel.
During which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.
It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.
.....during which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.
It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.
Fred Fish didn't write software. He collected software, and you paid him for it.This is not true. He did write software, and his fish disks were distributed for the cost of a disk, and free by other means (bbs's etc). he was a supporter of GPL also.
All I can say is it's messages like yours which continue to add to my deepening depression and only serve to reinforce that I've wasted 15 years of my life dedicated to this site and to trying to support everyone in the first place.
I think there are sometimes more important things than money.You're entitled to that thought, and to your opinion as it were, but as I said, to me, the Amiga soap opera simply isn't one of them. I do see where you're trying to slip in the fanboy mantra of "you should just give it away for free because the Amiga is more important than you".
Wayne, I totally understand and agree that spare time is very very hard to come by as we get older and work and family responsibilities come into play....Amiga time is my down time and I enjoy it..I hope you can sell the site for a nice amount of money and hopefully to pay you back for all the hard work and dedication you paid over the years to the Amiga community!
btw, I'll gladly donate some money if the community wants to get together to buy Amiga.org!
You're entitled to that thought, and to your opinion as it were, but as I said, to me, the Amiga soap opera simply isn't one of them. I do see where you're trying to slip in the fanboy mantra of "you should just give it away for free because the Amiga is more important than you".
I'm clearly baffled as to how you think I would in ANY way be "profiting" from such a sale considering everything I've done for both the site, and the community over the years. How much is 15 years of your life and constant dedication worth to you?
Indeed, I'm not interested in "the greater good" and/or giving away 15 years worth of blood, sweat, and tears. You wouldn't either if the roles were reversed, I guarantee ANY of you would feel the same way I do.
My life wouldn't be the same without this site. I will be honest though. As a student I cannot commit large sums of money to buy amiga.org, neither can I commit large amounts of time to run it. As much as I would love to say "put me down for a donation of x, and y hours per week administrating the site", I'm not prepared to do that when there's a good chance I won't be able to honour those commitments. As much as it would pain me to see this site and its community disappear, there's little I can do about it.
What I can offer is my thanks to everyone who has been involved in amiga.org's inception, day-to-day running and maintenance. This has been a great community over the years and I will always be grateful for the help I have received with Amiga-related problems, and even more-so for the friends I have made during my time here.
Finally, if a significant number of people agree to club together to buy the site, such that individual contributions will be relatively small, I will unquestionably consider contributing.
My life wouldn't be the same without this site. I will be honest though. As a student I cannot commit large sums of money to buy amiga.org, neither can I commit large amounts of time to run it. As much as I would love to say "put me down for a donation of x, and y hours per week administrating the site", I'm not prepared to do that when there's a good chance I won't be able to honour those commitments. As much as it would pain me to see this site and its community disappear, there's little I can do about it.
What I can offer is my thanks to everyone who has been involved in amiga.org's inception, day-to-day running and maintenance. This has been a great community over the years and I will always be grateful for the help I have received with Amiga-related problems, and even more-so for the friends I have made during my time here.
Finally, if a significant number of people agree to club together to buy the site, such that individual contributions will be relatively small, I will unquestionably consider contributing.
Again, I've said this clearly, but Amiga.org isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I just think it needs someone in the captain's chair who actually appreciates the Amiga for what it is.
I think a bit less melodrama is called for.
Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:
I just need to pay off some debt and move forward in my life. I can't do that if I spend most of my free time here administering the site and worrying about hackers and/or spammers.
10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.
If no one reads this, and I'm sure no one will, I'm considering putting the site up on eBay on a "until it sells" basis with a reserve on October 1st.
Lock, stock, and barrel.
During which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.
It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.
Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:
The problem is this: Everybody - except, as usual, Wayne - knows that this site isn't going to sell for 10,000 USD. It would be insane to pay that much, period.Thanks for your vote of confidence, and the not so subtle insults. Very helpful. I wondered when the trolls would show up. My response wouldn't be nearly as helpful, albeit much shorter.
He's not going to get what he's asking for - the question is how he's going to react. Having witnessed Wayne's reactions to similar problems in the past, I have my doubts if amiga.org will survive this.
99% of the content of this site are forum postings. These postings are owned by their authors, not by Wayne - hence he can't sell them. He can only sell the domain and the existing infrastructure.Absolutely, unequivocably wrong. Period. Not even a point of discussion. the content posted on ANY site becomes the inherited property of the site, and it's covered in the TOS which has been posted in various versions since 2001. Same with Moobunny, same with AW, same with MZ, same with *any* site.
Without you, who spent quite some time to migrate the content from the old CMS to the new one, all that Wayne could sell would be a domain and an empty forum. You don't seem to care, but the timing of events...You're right about one thing. We are *all* indebted to Karlos for saving the data from the last x years. Absolutely.
1. Wayne complaining that he needs to upgrade the CMS, because "running a.org wouldn't be fun anymore if we don't"
2. Karlos investing lots of hours to migrate the content
3. Wayne trying to sell the whole shebang for an insane amount of money because "running a.org is no fun anymore"
makes me feel uneasy.
10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.
Are you trying to say Amiga.org is worth 10,000 USD because you think English Amiga Board, Amigans.net, and Amigaworld.net are not worth anything in the Amiga universe? Maybe you did not mean it that way, can you clarify?I'm not suggesting anything of the kind, but thanks for twisting my words.
Just to be clear, this thread just made moobunny. While I have a great amount of respect for 90% of the posters over there, I don't expect it to be civil or troll-free for too much longer.
I'm not suggesting anything of the kind, but thanks for twisting my words.
None of the mentioned domain names are AMIGA.ORG, which is what I said. None of them has been around 15 years, and none of them have anywhere near the amount of historical data this site does.
If the owners of those sites choose to take the same path I have, then more power to them and I wish them luck.
Wayne
I asked you a question. I did not twist your words. I even said that maybe you did not mean it like it came off and simply asked if you could clarify the statement. Thats it, pretty simple and basic. Thanks for clarifying.Apologies, and the reason I may bow out of this thread for a bit. After a few attacks, both here and soon other sites and PM, I'm feeling a little bit defensive and -- as usual, with apologies -- it shows.
Very helpful.I'm not trying to be helpful.
Absolutely, unequivocably wrong. Period. Not even a point of discussion. the content posted on ANY site becomes the inherited property of the site,Perhaps you should do your homework regarding copyright. My postings are owned by me, unless I explicitly transfered ownership to you. Can you point me to the paragraph in the TOS that states that by posting here I automatically transfer my copyrights to you? That's a honest question - I might have missed it.
Neither Amiga.org nor it's staff are responsible for the content of user-contributed news items, comments, posts, or other similar entries.You can either claim you own my postings, or deny reliability for them. Not both at the same time.
Edit: if you want to consider it "selling the domain and getting free data" then that's fine, but whomever purchases the domain gets the whole ball of wax, not just the domain name.Of course he does, I didn't mean to imply anything else. But the purchaser would only pay for domain and infrastructure, as you're not entitled to sell the postings.
Any further insults or attacks will be met in kind.That's good to hear.
Apologies, and the reason I may bow out of this thread for a bit. After a few attacks, both here and soon other sites and PM, I'm feeling a little bit defensive and -- as usual, with apologies -- it shows.
I feel like a newly engaged woman who, upon presenting her new engagement ring to her closest friends, gets belittled and told how ugly and worthless the ring is... :)
Wayne
I'm not trying to be helpful.
I'm not trying to be helpful.
Perhaps you should do your homework regarding copyright. My postings are owned by me, unless I explicitly transfered ownership to you. Can you point me to the paragraph in the TOS that states that by posting here I automatically transfer my copyrights to you? That's a honest question - I might have missed it.
You can either claim you own my postings, or deny reliability for them. Not both at the same time.
Of course he does, I didn't mean to imply anything else. But the purchaser would only pay for domain and infrastructure, as you're not entitled to sell the postings.
:lol:
Then why bother posting!?
Apologies, and the reason I may bow out of this thread for a bit. After a few attacks, both here and soon other sites and PM, I'm feeling a little bit defensive and -- as usual, with apologies -- it shows.
I feel like a newly engaged woman who, upon presenting her new engagement ring to her closest friends, gets belittled and told how ugly and worthless the ring is... :)
Wayne
:lol:
Then why bother posting!?
Has happened to me too. I did a How-To on getting a Catweasel Flipper to work under MOS, posted it to AO and within days it was on another site, with exact same pics and text, but someone else taking credit.
so you want to buy a jag with the 10k ? :)Nope. Jaguars as beautiful, but maintenance nightmares (according to pretty much everyone I've asked). I'm getting used to the Mazda, though it's not my favorite vehicle of choice. Like everyone else I guess, I'd either invest it, or use it to pay off a couple of credit cards and cancel out that debt.
Not trying to be helpful towards Wayne is not the same as not trying to be helpful at all.
Not trying to be helpful towards Wayne is not the same as not trying to be helpful at all.Saying "Good luck but I have reservations" is not the same as coming into my house and insulting me either. A point easily overlooked.
@Bloodline
Congratulations on breaching 10,000 posts.
Forum whore... ;-)
Are you sure spreading FUD in this thread is entirely helpful to anyone?
Would it be possible to organise some sort of raffle where members can purchase tickets for say $25 each. $25 x 400 memebers equal $10,000.
Maybe offer a prize for the winner i.e Xbox 360, PS3 etc..to give them an incentive to buy and also a good chance of winning a prize?
The money would be rasied but the ownership of the site could still be decided by Wayne.
Just an idea...only trying to help!!
Feel free to point out where I spread FUD. I certainly was not polite, but I did not intend to be - because IMHO asking the community for 10 grand isn't polite either.
But this seems to be one of those he's-not-with-us-so-we're-allowed-to-burn-his-car-and-kill-his-cat moments, I guess I better take a break before people start insulting my mother or questioning the size of my manhood.
Feel free to point out where I spread FUD.
I certainly was not polite, but I did not intend to be - because IMHO asking the community for 10 grand isn't polite either.
But this seems to be one of those he's-not-with-us-so-we're-allowed-to-burn-his-car-and-kill-his-cat moments, I guess I better take a break before people start insulting my mother or questioning the size of my manhood.
Danke!
Yes, 10k cynical and mostly iPhone related posts :D
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/wharrgarbl.jpg)
@Wayne
dont worry the morphos lovers will jump on this and you will pay your debt in no time :)
wow..from your previous posts I could swear you are a Sam440 and OS4.1 supporter !
From his previous posts I thought he was a tw@t :D
From his previous posts I thought he was a tw@t :D
why dont you just point the domain at the English Amiga Board, or AmigaWorld.net so that the traffic goes there...
Wayne,
Sorry to hear you're moving on. My 2 cents tho. I think in this current economy 10K is *way* too much to pay for a website. To put it in context, thats a down payment on a mortgage right there. Then theres the added cost of keeping the server up and running etc etc.
Rather than selling the site, why dont you just point the domain at the English Amiga Board, or AmigaWorld.net so that the traffic goes there... maybe transfer the domain to some other party that is keeping the flame alive (AmigaKit?, EAB? AmigaWorld?).
I dont think there would be any harm in setting up a "tip cup" where users can show their gratitude for your work over the years.
Worst case scenario would be for the domain to be hijacked to one of those search landing pages you see, or worse, someone like Doomy or Amiga Inc snapping it up.
wow..from your previous posts I could swear you are a Sam440 and OS4.1 supporter !