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Operating System Specific Discussions => AROS Research Operating System => Topic started by: dammy on January 06, 2004, 06:47:18 PM

Title: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 06, 2004, 06:47:18 PM
What would make a good AROS-1 that is cheap enough to be affordable but would still allow growth?  I would guess that a major requirement would be that such a box would have to be able to dual-boot into a more mainstream OS.  Being that, it should be x86 or x86-64 based?  Or is there a better option in bang:buck ratio for a modern desktop system?

Biggest problem is drivers for gfx/snd/nic.  What would be acceptable gfx card that developers have a reasonable chance of getting documentation for?    Same for snd card and network card.

Dammy

Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 06, 2004, 07:38:41 PM
The Best AROS-1 would be one of the Athlon64 Motherboards with integrated Gfx, Audio and networking... that we would know what hardware we are targetting and be able to develop drivers for it.

MY first thought would be one of the amasingly cheap Via Mini-ITX boards, but I would prefer to go 64bit now :-)
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 06, 2004, 09:16:25 PM
by bloodline on 2004/1/6 14:38:41

Quote
The Best AROS-1 would be one of the Athlon64 Motherboards with integrated Gfx, Audio and networking... that we would know what hardware we are targetting and be able to develop drivers for it.

MY first thought would be one of the amasingly cheap Via Mini-ITX boards, but I would prefer to go 64bit now


Cheapest mobo/athlon 64 is $335 w/o intergrated gfx.  I would like to see a pure 64 bit AROS, but that's not going to happen any time soon (unless someone wants to donate a few machines to the devs;).  The cheapest Opteron mobo with onboard grx is tyan  S2850G2N with ATI Rage (8Megger) for $179.

IMO, too expensive for a AROS-1.  AROS being as small foot print, I don't think it's really needing current upper end CPUs.  2200 XP with a MSI mobo would be over kill for $110.

What keeps me wondering is, what gfx card?  Unless that nVidia bounty opens on TeamAROS and a dev takes it on, I don't see the major gfx OEMs as reasonable choice for a AROS-1.  

Dammy
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: hagar on January 06, 2004, 09:31:51 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
The Best AROS-1 would be one of the Athlon64 Motherboards with integrated Gfx, Audio and networking... that we would know what hardware we are targetting and be able to develop drivers for it.

MY first thought would be one of the amasingly cheap Via Mini-ITX boards, but I would prefer to go 64bit now :-)


What is the reason for Athlon64?

I would say: Go for an ITX board with a FANLESS VIA cpu. There is nothing more disturbing thans noisy fans.
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Crumb on January 06, 2004, 10:27:30 PM
Quote
What keeps me wondering is, what gfx card? Unless that nVidia bounty opens on TeamAROS and a dev takes it on, I don't see the major gfx OEMs as reasonable choice for a AROS-1.


If you don't use VIA's mini-itx gfx card I think that the best idea would be to support Radeons.

I think that a fan-less mini-itx VIA board would be great for AROS.
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 06, 2004, 10:43:22 PM
I have a Mini-ITX for AROS... runs great, Hard drive is noisey though  :-)
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 06, 2004, 10:44:29 PM
Quote

hagar wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
The Best AROS-1 would be one of the Athlon64 Motherboards with integrated Gfx, Audio and networking... that we would know what hardware we are targetting and be able to develop drivers for it.

MY first thought would be one of the amasingly cheap Via Mini-ITX boards, but I would prefer to go 64bit now :-)


What is the reason for Athlon64?

I would say: Go for an ITX board with a FANLESS VIA cpu. There is nothing more disturbing thans noisy fans.


Athlon64, simply because that is the Leading edge and AROS can run on Athlon64 machines now :-)
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Seehund on January 06, 2004, 11:00:00 PM

I don't care what hardware it is or how much it costs. Just make sure that people are only allowed to buy it (to run AROS on) if it's sold under a licensed AROS-1 trademark. That's the road to success!

Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 06, 2004, 11:06:54 PM
Quote

Seehund wrote:

I don't care what hardware it is or how much it costs. Just make sure that people are only allowed to buy it (to run AROS on) if it's sold under a licensed AROS-1 trademark. That's the road to success!



Funny you should say that, as I have some Branded AROS-1 motherboards here! They are old PentiumIII boards and come with 800Mhz CPU (No Gfx card or sound), and you can have one for only £900  :-o  Hurry, because I expect them to sell like hot cakes ;-)

I am serious, by the way. :-P

-Edit- The £794 profit will be donated to the AROS Dev team.
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Argo on January 07, 2004, 01:35:13 AM
Not my setup. Haven't gotten AROS to run yet. Though it's getting closer each time. Does AROS have USB support?
I think my last install worked on my current computer, but no mouse.
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Rodney on January 07, 2004, 04:01:10 AM
besides the point it would be pointless to have an AROS-1, but i think AMD are the go. And the smaller the formfactor the better!
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Jose on January 07, 2004, 05:05:58 AM
Market it as a true multimedia OS.
An integrated JIT 68k emulator for 68k apps would be cool too.
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 07, 2004, 05:50:00 AM
by Argo on 2004/1/6 20:35:13


Quote
Not my setup. Haven't gotten AROS to run yet. Though it's getting closer each time. Does AROS have USB support?


Currently there is NO support for USB.  PS2 mouse should work nicely.  Right now, there is work being done with PCI and some slight hint of some taking a relook at what has been done so far for TCP/IP.  Just takes awhile since it's all community driven OS with very little corp sponsors, though there are some rather nice folks out there who are helping out via TeamAROS (http://www.thenostromo.com/teamaros/) bounty donations. =)

Dammy
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 07, 2004, 06:13:47 AM
by Rodney on 2004/1/6 23:01:10

Quote
besides the point it would be pointless to have an AROS-1, but i think AMD are the go. And the smaller the formfactor the better!


RIght now, I'll agree with you.  Given in awhile once a few major applications are finished/working, it maybe time for it. It would allow merchants to sell niche machines to end users that would be preinstalled and all the hardware has the proper drivers.  It's more of a reverse Eyetech, everyone is licensed hardware dealer and end users get to pick and chose the best machine that suits them.  Choice, what an evil thing. ;)

Dammy
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: JohnB on January 07, 2004, 09:39:32 AM
It would be Great to run AROS on an AMD 64 platform, full 64 bit OS would just be iceing on the cake. Wasn't the Amiga OS  the first 32 bit clean consumer OS ?
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: paulvm on January 07, 2004, 10:28:50 AM
I would like to see the ability run multible os in a window simliar to vpc on windows but built into the os, with the ability to grap data(video, text, and sound) from the other oses.  Also i would like to see built in support for emulators for instance other cpu directory for storing basic cpu engines that can be emulated- 680x0 so programmer dont have recode for a mac or amiga emulator and ppc engine again  for mac or amiga 4os. AMD 64 support is good also.
for source code for a vpc type emulator look here
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Kronos on January 07, 2004, 03:22:44 PM
Don't see why everybody seems so keen on running AROS on big irons.

AROS should concentrate on what made the Amiga the Amiga, back in those days.

"Power without the price" was the motto, not brute force with the elegance of
a 40t-truck (and even the noise level ....). My personal experience is that I the times
where I would allways need more grunt has ended 2 years ago with buying the
AthlonXP1600, and that is running Linux  :-o

A(R)OS is neat and clean and should therefore do more than o.k. with one of the
VIA-mini-ITXs. The 1GHz does need a small fan, but that shouldn't be a to big prob,
and it will surely deliever more than enough speed for any SW that AROS will get in
the coming years. Write a native/accelareted GFX-driver for it, put in in a really small case....
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 07, 2004, 03:43:43 PM
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Kronos on January 07, 2004, 03:47:15 PM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
 Running AROS on the Mini-ITX offers no real advantage over a Pegaos or A1.


Being cheaper and smaller is one big advantage..

Quote

But Running AROS on an Athln64 has an obvious advantage!


And that would be ? The fact that the CPU is now iddling at 95 instead of 80% ? :-P
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 07, 2004, 04:05:07 PM
Quote

Kronos wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
 Running AROS on the Mini-ITX offers no real advantage over a Pegaos or A1.


Being cheaper and smaller is one big advantage..

Quote

But Running AROS on an Athln64 has an obvious advantage!


And that would be ? The fact that the CPU is now iddling at 95 instead of 80% ? :-P


:roflmao:

oh, I don't know that voxel demos can be quite cpu intensive... I'm sure the CPU is idling at 94% :-D
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 07, 2004, 04:58:37 PM
by Kronos on 2004/1/7 10:22:44


Quote
Don't see why everybody seems so keen on running AROS on big irons.

AROS should concentrate on what made the Amiga the Amiga, back in those days.

"Power without the price" was the motto, not brute force with the elegance of
a 40t-truck (and even the noise level ....). My personal experience is that I the times
where I would allways need more grunt has ended 2 years ago with buying the
AthlonXP1600, and that is running Linux

A(R)OS is neat and clean and should therefore do more than o.k. with one of the
VIA-mini-ITXs. The 1GHz does need a small fan, but that shouldn't be a to big prob,
and it will surely deliever more than enough speed for any SW that AROS will get in
the coming years. Write a native/accelareted GFX-driver for it, put in in a really small case....


Hey, this is AROS, do both big iron and mini-ITX. =)

Dammy
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Kronos on January 07, 2004, 05:04:00 PM
@dammy

Well it was you, who asked for ideas about an "AROS-Ohne".
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 07, 2004, 05:18:17 PM
by Kronos on 2004/1/7 12:04:00

Quote
Well it was you, who asked for ideas about an "AROS-Ohne".


Heh, you got me there.  Think I need to do a poll for this...

Dammy
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 07, 2004, 05:27:02 PM
Quote

dammy wrote:
by Kronos on 2004/1/7 12:04:00

Quote
Well it was you, who asked for ideas about an "AROS-Ohne".


Heh, you got me there.  Think I need to do a poll for this...

Dammy


Well don't forget to include the ZX81
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: pixie on January 07, 2004, 07:05:26 PM
Being AOS like AROS is, as long as it runs silent, the rest doesn't matter much to me (Mhz wise).

That, an ATI Radeon and a decent sound board would made a perfect setup, hardware wise...

Mozilla ported back to it, plus OpenOffice and some of the amiga players, and voila, a Multimedia terminal!
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: McTrinsic on January 07, 2004, 10:35:04 PM
Quote
hould concentrate on what made the Amiga the Amiga, back in those days.

"Power without the price" was the motto, not brute force with the elegance of
a 40t-truck (and even the noise level ....).


Sorry, I disagree.

The Amiga 1000 was a dreammachin first of all because most of the people dreamed of owning so much money to afford that one.

The Amiga 3000 was the same when introduced: extremely expensive.

The A4000 was expensive, too.

The cheaper Amiga 500 brought the Amiga a  game-boy like image. Similar the A 1200.

The A500+ and A600 were way overpriced or two years too late, you decide.

The CDTV was brilliant, but not understood, and DID NOT HAVE A HARDRIVE AND NO FLOPPY!

The CD32... sigh... simply too late.

On which of these qualities should AROS concentrate?

The only really balanced Amiga was the 2000, and that was expensive, too, but offered a lot for its price.

And no, I am NOT Doomy.

Anyway, I loved my 500 and now love my A1000/Phoenixboard.



Have fun,
McTrinsic
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 08, 2004, 07:00:51 AM
Here is that poll (http://www.thenostromo.com/cgi-bin/vote/index.cgi) was promised. ;)

Dammy
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Bodie on January 08, 2004, 07:03:35 AM
Quote

dammy wrote:
Here is that poll (http://www.thenostromo.com/cgi-bin/vote/index.cgi) was promising. ;)

Dammy


Not anymore :-P
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: dammy on January 08, 2004, 07:39:31 AM
Quote
Not anymore


Not working for you?

Dammy
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: bloodline on January 08, 2004, 10:43:05 AM
Quote

dammy wrote:
Quote
Not anymore


Not working for you?

Dammy


Poll seems to be working fine (Probably best to start a new thread about it)... I can't decide what to vote for :-(
Title: Re: What would make a good AROS-1?
Post by: Bodie on January 08, 2004, 10:52:46 AM
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

dammy wrote:
Quote
Not anymore


Not working for you?

Dammy


Poll seems to be working fine (Probably best to start a new thread about it)... I can't decide what to vote for :-(


Works ok for me now :-) .