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Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: commodorejohn on August 29, 2011, 11:23:32 PM

Title: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: commodorejohn on August 29, 2011, 11:23:32 PM
Just what it says in the title. It's been a noticeable pattern around here that someone will wind up banned (temporarily or not) and their friends and supporters will spawn a thread or two complaining about it and demanding to know the reason. This is pretty understandable, as the mods make a habit of deleting ban-inducing posts and thus the whole thing seems shady and arbitrary even when there's a good reason for it.

Therefore, I suggest that a thread be created in which moderators are required to explain the terms of and reasons behind bannings. I've seen this on several other forums, and it does wonders to improve member-moderator relations (and cuts down on the number of "why was x banned!?" threads, to boot.) Keeps the members placated and the mods accountable. I think it's just the thing for amiga.org, on those occasions when a ban is merited.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: nicholas on August 29, 2011, 11:38:16 PM
I think itś pretty pathetic starting threads asking why ones buddies have been banned tbh.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: commodorejohn on August 29, 2011, 11:39:08 PM
Maybe, but with a thread like this it would no longer be necessary.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: koaftder on August 29, 2011, 11:42:31 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;656813
Just what it says in the title. It's been a noticeable pattern around here that someone will wind up banned (temporarily or not) and their friends and supporters will spawn a thread or two complaining about it and demanding to know the reason. This is pretty understandable, as the mods make a habit of deleting ban-inducing posts and thus the whole thing seems shady and arbitrary even when there's a good reason for it.

Therefore, I suggest that a thread be created in which moderators are required to explain the terms of and reasons behind bannings. I've seen this on several other forums, and it does wonders to improve member-moderator relations (and cuts down on the number of "why was x banned!?" threads, to boot.) Keeps the members placated and the mods accountable. I think it's just the thing for amiga.org, on those occasions when a ban is merited.


I get where you're going with that but this kind of tactic just invites other kinds of BS on web forums.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Karlos on August 29, 2011, 11:42:42 PM
It's not a bad idea but it makes the site even more of a pain to moderate than it already is. Trust me, it's by and large a thankless task.

The moderation policy here is fairly relaxed, but when a warning is given to a member and not heeded then action is taken. As the bottom line reads "We almost always give warnings, but never to the same person twice."

Moderators already are accountable to the site admin, who ultimately lays down the rules. There is a mailing list to which all reported posts go that all moderators have visibility of. Furthermore, deleted posts leave an audit. As part of being accountable, deleted posts remain visible to admins and moderators, along with who deleted it, when and why.

We don't simply delete posts and ban people on a whim.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: dreamcast270mhz on August 30, 2011, 12:06:46 AM
How about you just make a thread only a mod or admin can post to. Then, anyone who is banned, anyone, a post is made with their name, and reason why they were banned.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: esc on August 30, 2011, 12:12:10 AM
I can see both sides of the coin here.  However, I think as much as I would probably appreciate this type of a thread, I'm gonna have to side with the mods.

My main reason is because I'm sure it's already a PITA moderating such a large forum in the first place.  The guidelines are no secret :rtfm:, everyone has had to read them.  If the mods are doing their part, as in warnings and the like, I think perhaps we should just trust them :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: lunithy on August 30, 2011, 06:10:56 AM
The idea is good but like esc said they have allot to do already and it's largely thankless job that left undone this site would not function so If people do read the warnings and continue to post knowing the rules then hey you get banned.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: amigadave on August 30, 2011, 06:41:04 AM
Quote from: Karlos;656821
It's not a bad idea but it makes the site even more of a pain to moderate than it already is. Trust me, it's by and large a thankless task.

The moderation policy here is fairly relaxed, but when a warning is given to a member and not heeded then action is taken. As the bottom line reads "We almost always give warnings, but never to the same person twice."

Moderators already are accountable to the site admin, who ultimately lays down the rules. There is a mailing list to which all reported posts go that all moderators have visibility of. Furthermore, deleted posts leave an audit. As part of being accountable, deleted posts remain visible to admins and moderators, along with who deleted it, when and why.

We don't simply delete posts and ban people on a whim.

Your efforts are appreciated Karlos!

I may not always agree with your opinions (edit: non-moderation opinions), but I have always agreed with your moderation actions.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Kesa on August 30, 2011, 07:29:27 AM
Quote from: nicholas;656817
I think itś pretty pathetic starting threads asking why ones buddies have been banned tbh.

I agree. Why do people do that?    :confused:

Quote from: amigadave;656874
Your efforts are appreciated Karlos!

I may not always agree with your opinions (edit: non-moderation opinions), but I have always agreed with your moderation actions.

Agreed. Karlos, don't think your modding is thankless because its not  and i really do appreciate what you do around here. I think you just  need a big hug, so here it is    :knuddel:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: J-Golden on August 30, 2011, 11:18:04 AM
Wow.  The Army's been keeping me busy and I come back and find this?!?!

As the "youngest" of the Mods I'd have to say that trying to do this would be over kill.

Mods are doing their job, weather you agree with their decisions or not, to help keep the Forum running.  This is a thankless job as others have said and also pays na-da!

To add more hoops to go through just to do our jobs would almost certainly break the system.  All the extra work would keep us from doing our jobs and enjoying the site ourselves.

I know, coming from me that sounds really hypocritical.  I got involved in the "Franko Incident of 2011" because their was some issues that went way beyond simple moderating and I didn't get involved until I had a lot of information on and from both sides.

Asking for an explanation for a mod's actions is the Forum Admin's job.  That is where the Franko bit ended up and where it was solved.

So, if you have a friend who finds himself ousted, ask him why and/or check his most recent posts and work your way up from there.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Brian on August 30, 2011, 11:44:12 AM
I think a single "BAN-thread" that only MOD's can edit with the name of Banned person with a link to the post that resulted in a ban (with a quote of what resulted in the ban if post is deleted/edited) along with an short explanation why this resulted in a ban (Ruled to be against policy X would do). This would answer the questions and also help the users understand where the lines are drawn.

Now I understand that modding is alot of work but banning someone is a huge deal for the person getting banned and to some extent online friends of this person who suddently can't communicate with the person so openes about the ban, although more work should be a priority to help keep a good mod-user relationship and defuse any mod abuse thoughst people might have.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: J-Golden on August 30, 2011, 11:54:03 AM
I just thought of another reason against the Ban thread.  Some people may not want others to know what they did.

I've received requests from people to have things completely removed that they have put up for the reason that they realize what a bad mistake it was in the first place.

Whether they were banned or not, people don't like their dirty laundry waved around like a banner and made public.  It is embarrassing and humiliating and most people who receive warnings or temporary bans just want to get past the situation and get on with posting.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Tension on August 30, 2011, 12:08:43 PM
We're always told that this is a family friendly forum. Why don't we have an option to hide posts according to our age, so that we can see what Is causing the arguments before posts get deleted. Those families that like to huddle round their PC's and check the Amiga forums after dinner each evening can just view the PG version of the site.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Amiga_Nut on August 30, 2011, 12:46:42 PM
If you ignore a warning and then get banned it is nobody else's business but the mod who banned them and the member who got banned.

Excessive idea, after all it is a free site run for our benefit, if you break the [already relaxed] rules you'll get banned. If you don't like the way the site is run then you stop posting.

I don't see the need for this at all.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Tripitaka on August 30, 2011, 01:16:37 PM
I think the mods do enough work for free as it is to be honest. I understand the logic of a "Ban rationale thread" but it's not that easy to get banned on Amiga.org, I've survived so far without so much as a warning.....
....but then I'm a nice guy, and anyone who says I'm not is getting a kicking.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: hooligan on August 30, 2011, 01:29:11 PM
Ban people who question bans. Problem solved :hammer:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Karlos on August 30, 2011, 01:40:28 PM
Quote from: hooligan;656917
Ban people who question bans. Problem solved :hammer:


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0LOczYiKRcw/TAZjNJCbItI/AAAAAAAAADo/NRv2hhobd-Y/s320/so_much_win.png)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Jope on August 30, 2011, 01:41:30 PM
Quote from: hooligan;656917
Ban people who question bans. Problem solved :hammer:

Yep.

What is it with this sense of entitlement from forum dwellers.. We, the users, are not the ones calling the shots in these forums - it's very much a run by the mods and admins and their (hopefully good) judgement.

Go to usenet news or moobunny if you want anarchy.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Kesa on August 30, 2011, 01:42:02 PM
Quote from: hooligan;656917
Ban people who question bans. Problem solved :hammer:

What are you Hitler?    :eek:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: J-Golden on August 30, 2011, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: Kesa;656921
What are you Hitler?    :eek:


OOOHHHH Watch it!  Saying that is what got Megan Fox Kicked from doing Transformers 3!!!!!:nervous:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: gertsy on August 30, 2011, 02:08:33 PM
Ban Kesa..!
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: nicholas on August 30, 2011, 04:03:15 PM
Quote from: hooligan;656917
Ban people who question bans. Problem solved :hammer:

+1

It's what several other forums I regularly visit do and it works very well.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Tripitaka on August 30, 2011, 04:20:29 PM
.oot sdrawkcab stsop rieht setirw ohw enoyna nab dna, seY
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 30, 2011, 09:52:26 PM
Quote from: Karlos;656821
It's not a bad idea but it makes the site even more of a pain to moderate than it already is. Trust me, it's by and large a thankless task.

The moderation policy here is fairly relaxed, but when a warning is given to a member and not heeded then action is taken. As the bottom line reads "We almost always give warnings, but never to the same person twice."

Moderators already are accountable to the site admin, who ultimately lays down the rules. There is a mailing list to which all reported posts go that all moderators have visibility of. Furthermore, deleted posts leave an audit. As part of being accountable, deleted posts remain visible to admins and moderators, along with who deleted it, when and why.

We don't simply delete posts and ban people on a whim.


Don't suppose this post will last long before it gets mysteriously deleted or gets me banned (again) under the guise that it's a personal attack, which it is not and is simply something that needs to be said in regard to the way this site is moderated and needs to be said publicly in response to others questions and posts in this thread, of which some are "misleading" or just totally wrong... :)

As most know by now I call a spade a spade and am quite forthright when it comes to saying what I have to say, so with that being said and for the benefit of those of you who have never had the experience of being banned (and I've had plenty in my short time here I assure you) let me explain here why Karlos in his above statement is not quite telling the truth here... ;)

When you get banned it simply comes out of the blue, no warnings of any kind, you can be in the middle of typing a post and when you click on submit you will find yourself locked out with a simple message telling you that you have been banned, with no option to respond or ask why and no reason for why you were banned... :(

Or you can simply try to go to the site one day to discover you have been banned, with no reason and again no recourse to even ask why... :(

My latest ban was the first one to actually give me a reason (hooray progress at last) and this has never been the case before, however it still gives you no option to respond to the ban as some mods lock you out of the site totally and don't allow you to even view the site or contact the Admins or site owner like happened with my latest ban...  (You can of course email the site owner or admin directly if you know how)... :(

As for not deleting posts and banning people on whim, well once again that's simply stretching the truth a little, certain mods here are a power unto themselves who do delete certain posts on what most certainly seems like a "whim" and without explanation.... :(

Numerous folk have noticed this in recent months and posted on the site saying so. Same goes for banning, RedRumLoa was the worst mod for doing so, no warnings, no reasons, no recourse to even ask why you have been banned... :(

I know many of you will think Karlos can do no wrong and is a great asset to this site, while I agree with the second part of that comment I can't agree with the first. I suppose it's human nature but Karlos from my own personal experience can be very biased and blinkered in his views in certain situations and as such can and does make some very poor and highly unfair "moderation" decisions at times... :(

So to blindly believe that the actions of the moderators is all fair and above board is foolish, very foolish. If they have no public accountability for their actions and the only way you will discover this is if you fall foul of one them yourself one day, well by then it's too late as you will find yourself locked out with no reason given and no recourse to even simply ask why, let alone plead your case... ;)

For those who will say this is a privately owned site and you must have read the TOS that comes with that, then yes I know it's privately owned and yes I have read the TOS too but here's where that fails big time on this site (as most folk never actually bother to read these things)... :)

The TOS if you've never read read them were written by the former owner (who has now left for good) and are bizarre and worrying in the extreme, they concentrate mainly on users not being a "Neo-Nazi" and "Anti Semitism " !!!. Two very bizarre and strange subjects for what is after all a forum for an old obsolete computer system to have it's TOS based upon... :rolleyes:

Also the TOS and the occasional post by the powers that be claiming this is a "family friendly site" in regard to the use of langauge, well that's a shambles for a start. Yes they may have introduced a language filter recently to filter out what are considered to be swear words and the mods censor certain words directly that they don't like... BUT WHO CENSORS THE MODS !!!,  as a certain mod even in recent days has proven it's all right for him to use certain words and language while he censors others for using the same type of language, something very, very wrong there I think... ;)

Now private site or not the owners here still (if you choose to do so) take subscription fees and I am one of those who pays these fees. So if the site wishes to be seen as just simply being fair & reasonable then for those who actually pay for the privilege of using it, some sort of accountability desperately needs introduced here so that all can see the site is being run in a fair and reasonable manner... :)

While this is still the greatest Amiga forum on the web, it is not perfect by any means and really needs a total re-write of the TOS and some degree of accountability to it's subscribed users. Otherwise despite being the greatest site around it will remain tarnished by all I have mentioned above that is wrong with it, which is a great shame indeed... :(

So to sum it all up this site needs a good shake up and slap across the coupon with a large wet fish... consistency, fairness and accountability to it's paying members need to be introduced ASAP (those who are too mean and miserly to pay for a subscription, well bugger them, they can't really complain as they get things here for free)... :)

PS: Could someone for gawds sake please change the questions for submitting a search or contacting the site when something goes wrong, to questions that are relevant and easy to answer instead of the current ones that even with 26 years of experience I can't friggin answer correctly... :(

Example: "Who Is The Current CEO Of Amiga inc" & "Who Is The Current CTO Of Amiga inc" !!! It would be easier to tell you Medhi Ali's ruddy shoe size than correctly answer either one of those... :rolleyes:

PPS: Here's a forum that uses VBulltein and posts daily a list of banned users and the reasons they were banned (mind you not much good if your the one who's banned and can't even view the site while your banned) but it's a start of an idea... :rolleyes:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/banlist.php

PPPS: My own idea I posted way back last year of a "Virtual Car Park" somewhere in the depth of the coffee house still seems to me to be a perfectly good one for members to sort out their differences and not distract or disrupt other threads or members... :D
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: LoadWB on August 30, 2011, 10:30:52 PM
/kickban * Tired of your crap.

Not good enough?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 30, 2011, 10:33:28 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;657027
/kickban * Tired of your crap.

Not good enough?


And I couldn't care less what your opinion is... :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Darrin on August 30, 2011, 10:33:47 PM
Quote from: Kesa;656921
What are you Hitler?    :eek:


Don't make The Doctor get Rory to put you in the cupboard.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 30, 2011, 10:35:19 PM
Quote from: Darrin;657030
Don't make The Doctor get Rory to put you in the cupboard.


Gawd did you watch that too... worst episode ever... :(
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: TiredOLife on August 30, 2011, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: gertsy;656925
Ban Kesa..!


Ban those who ask for others to be banned.
Er, hang on, no wait, nnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Darrin on August 30, 2011, 10:54:25 PM
Quote from: Franko;657031
Gawd did you watch that too... worst episode ever... :(


Hey, River Song is rapidly becoming my dream MILF.  :D
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Kesa on August 30, 2011, 11:00:41 PM
Quote from: Darrin;657030
Don't make The Doctor get Rory to put you in the cupboard.

Is this Monty Python? I don't know what this is.

@Franko. Nazi is spelt Nazi not "Zazi".
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Kesa on August 30, 2011, 11:02:27 PM
Quote from: gertsy;656925
Ban Kesa..!

Haha! Where have you been you slimey little devil you?  :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 30, 2011, 11:07:34 PM
Quote from: Kesa;657049
Is this Monty Python? I don't know what this is.

@Franko. Nazi is spelt Nazi not "Zazi".


It wus a spulling mistook I mistook the Nazis for the Zazis from the Planet Zong (Third Reich From The Sun), ooops... :o
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Darrin on August 30, 2011, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: Kesa;657049
Is this Monty Python? I don't know what this is.


No, it is last Saturday's episode of Doctor Who entitled "Let's kill Hitler" where teh TARDIS crashes into Hitler's office just as he's about to be killed for war crimes by a time-travelling robot.  Seriously.

The Doctor has Rory lock Hitler in his cupboard.

It was a great way of making a complete, evil wanker like Hitler become a joke on screen.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 30, 2011, 11:14:46 PM
Quote from: Darrin;657057
No, it is last Saturday's episode of Doctor Who entitled "Let's kill Hitler" where teh TARDIS crashes into Hitler's office just as he's about to be killed for war crimes by a time-travelling robot.  Seriously.

The Doctor has Rory lock Hitler in his cupboard.

It was a great way of making a complete, evil wanker like Hitler become a joke on screen.


I actually forgot the new season had started and Saturdays episode was the first one I saw, WTF happened the Docs changed AGAIN (this ones got a face like an old slipper)... :confused:

Last time I looked he was still Tom Baker... :confused:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Darrin on August 30, 2011, 11:18:51 PM
Quote from: Franko;657060
I actually forgot the new season had started and Saturdays episode was the first one I saw, WTF happened the Docs changed AGAIN (this ones got a face like an old slipper)... :confused:

Last time I looked he was still Tom Baker... :confused:


LOL.  Damn, this is Matt Smith's SECOND season as The Doctor.  You're way behind.

Personally I think he plays it very much like old Patrick Throughton.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Kesa on August 30, 2011, 11:22:31 PM
Quote from: Franko;657055
It wus a spulling mistook I mistook the Nazis for the Zazis from the Planet Zong (Third Reich From The Sun), ooops... :o

Errmmmm... OK then.

Quote from: Darrin;657057
No, it is last Saturday's episode of Doctor Who entitled "Let's kill Hitler" where teh TARDIS crashes into Hitler's office just as he's about to be killed for war crimes by a time-travelling robot.  Seriously.

The Doctor has Rory lock Hitler in his cupboard.

It was a great way of making a complete, evil wanker like Hitler become a joke on screen.

Oh OK. I'm a Dr Who fan but can't be bothered watching it any more because i hate the new doctor and i think Karen Gillian is a complete slut in real life. Actually i would prefer that Hitler locked Rory in the cupboard instead. Even better Matt Smith :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: ffastback on August 30, 2011, 11:41:41 PM
Using this website is a privilege, not a right.  Donating to this website does not make you a paying customer, it makes you a benevolent benefactor.  Mods do their job for free and they are all open to passing on suggestions to the site owner as far as I am aware.  So if you don't think moderation is fair or that the TOS is fair voice your opinions to them in a PM.  But a ban rationale thread?  The only thing you'll get from that is the trolls filling it up with further demands and BS posts.  As it is they already have great influence on Amiga boards in general.  If you don't see or believe that look at forums for other vintage platforms.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 30, 2011, 11:53:05 PM
Quote from: ffastback;657070
Using this website is a privilege, not a right.  Donating to this website does not make you a paying customer, it makes you a benevolent benefactor.  Mods do their job for free and they are all open to passing on suggestions to the site owner as far as I am aware.  So if you don't think moderation is fair or that the TOS is fair voice your opinions to them in a PM.  But a ban rationale thread?  The only thing you'll get from that is the trolls filling it up with further demands and BS posts.  As it is they already have great influence on Amiga boards in general.  If you don't see or believe that look at forums for other vintage platforms.


That is your view and opinion and you are perfectly entitled to them but it doesn't mean I have to agree with anything you said... :)

What happens on other forums is of no concern to me unless I use them and as for the silly wee made up terms "Trolls" & "Trolling", well I have expressed my views on those silly terms before as nothing but silly wee made up words, used as an excuse for those who haven't the ability to simply accept that other posters may not share the same views as those who can only ever respond with those pathetic terms because they simply cannot put together a rational argument... ;)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: ffastback on August 31, 2011, 12:04:34 AM
Quote from: Franko;657071
as for the silly wee made up terms "Trolls" & "Trolling", well I have expressed my views on those silly terms before as nothing but silly wee made up words, used as an excuse for those who haven't the ability to simply accept that other posters may not share the same views as those who can only ever respond with those pathetic terms because they simply cannot put together a rational argument... ;)


On its face your argument is flawed since it assumes everyone posts from their true opinions only and that no one gets off on being purposeful troublemakers for the hell of it. ;)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 12:11:41 AM
Quote from: ffastback;657073
On its face your argument is flawed since it assumes everyone posts from their true opinions only and that no one gets off on being purposeful troublemakers for the hell of it. ;)


Maybe so, but why would I instantly presume something someone has posted is not the truth and that what they have said is only being said in order to cause trouble... :confused:

I tend to (just like real life) observe what people say on a regular basis and take this into account before responding to them as I don't know these people personally... :)

Therefore it would be pretty arrogant to instantly presume that any post I read by someone is just out to cause trouble or not their true opinion... ;)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Tension on August 31, 2011, 12:53:29 AM
doctor who is a ****
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: ffastback on August 31, 2011, 01:05:02 AM
Quote from: Franko;657075
Maybe so, but why would I instantly presume something someone has posted is not the truth and that what they have said is only being said in order to cause trouble... :confused:


No one said you (or anyone) should.  

Quote
I tend to (just like real life) observe what people say on a regular basis and take this into account before responding to them as I don't know these people personally...


As do most people...your point?

Quote
Therefore it would be pretty arrogant to instantly presume that any post I read by someone is just out to cause trouble or not their true opinion...


If you were silly enough to do so yes you would be being pretty arrogant indeed.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 01:19:21 AM
Quote from: ffastback;657080
As do most people...your point?

Point is here (which I can either assume you have deliberately missed or genuinely haven't got it) is based upon experience on this site, while most do there are a very large number who don't... :)

Quote from: ffastback;657080
If you were silly enough to do so yes you would be being pretty arrogant indeed.

As I think I already made that clear then your point is ???
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 01:43:12 AM
Quote from: Karlos;656821
It's not a bad idea but it makes the site even more of a pain to moderate than it already is. Trust me, it's by and large a thankless task.

The moderation policy here is fairly relaxed, but when a warning is given to a member and not heeded then action is taken. As the bottom line reads "We almost always give warnings, but never to the same person twice."

Moderators already are accountable to the site admin, who ultimately lays down the rules. There is a mailing list to which all reported posts go that all moderators have visibility of. Furthermore, deleted posts leave an audit. As part of being accountable, deleted posts remain visible to admins and moderators, along with who deleted it, when and why.

We don't simply delete posts and ban people on a whim.



Hi,

@Karlos,

Just because Magnetic cannot keep from blasting Franko at every opportunity, doesn't mean that you should ban Franko, all Franko was doing is what Franko does best, defend himself, if you can't understand that, then you shouldn't be officiating this argument, Magnetic is the one that always starts the BS on Franko, when all Franko is doing is having fun on the site. He is bothering no one, except for Kesa (who we all bother), now I am not one of Franko's friends and I am always busting him, but me and him take it in stride, we get in no real arguments, but when I and Magnetic get into it, then you are in for a war, and to tell you the truth Magnetic is about as smart as a pissant walking up a tree. If you look at it, all the times Franko was banned is when he gets in a tassle with pis Magnetic, and he usually doesn't even say anything to him until Magnetic has opened his keyboard one to many times.

I find Franko's ban very unfair, and I am not even one of his friends. I just like reading his posts, he has a very petite way about him.

smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 01:47:35 AM
Quote from: amigadave;656874
Your efforts are appreciated Karlos!

I may not always agree with your opinions (edit: non-moderation opinions), but I have always agreed with your moderation actions.


Hi,

@amigadave

Boy!!!

What a suckup,

I always agreed with your moderation actions,

Boy not only is your nose turning brown, but I believe it is starting to spread to your lips.


smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 01:49:43 AM
Quote from: Kesa;656876
I agree. Why do people do that?    :confused:



Agreed. Karlos, don't think your modding is thankless because its not  and i really do appreciate what you do around here. I think you just  need a big hug, so here it is    :knuddel:


Hi,

@Kesa,

Darn it Kesa write your darn name on the soles of your shoes, if you are going to crawl up there that deep, we at least want to know who it is.

smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 01:58:38 AM
Quote from: J-Golden;656892
Wow.  The Army's been keeping me busy and I come back and find this?!?!

As the "youngest" of the Mods I'd have to say that trying to do this would be over kill.

Mods are doing their job, weather you agree with their decisions or not, to help keep the Forum running.  This is a thankless job as others have said and also pays na-da!

To add more hoops to go through just to do our jobs would almost certainly break the system.  All the extra work would keep us from doing our jobs and enjoying the site ourselves.

I know, coming from me that sounds really hypocritical.  I got involved in the "Franko Incident of 2011" because their was some issues that went way beyond simple moderating and I didn't get involved until I had a lot of information on and from both sides.

Asking for an explanation for a mod's actions is the Forum Admin's job.  That is where the Franko bit ended up and where it was solved.

So, if you have a friend who finds himself ousted, ask him why and/or check his most recent posts and work your way up from there.


Hi,

Well la ti da ta, and a bucket of wheat to you, -- J-Golden

Why is it the Franko bit, and not the Magnetic bit?

Every one that I read, Franko was usually keyboarding with some one else, and then loud keyboard Magnetic came in and really started the jamberee, they Franko like always step into it and gets in trouble, everyone blames Franko, it is always the Franko incident, or Franko done this.

Butt

it is Magnetic with the threats, magentic who blasts Franko on every post even when Franko ignores him.

You are all unfair.

smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 02:03:14 AM
Quote from: Tripitaka;656914
I think the mods do enough work for free as it is to be honest. I understand the logic of a "Ban rationale thread" but it's not that easy to get banned on Amiga.org, I've survived so far without so much as a warning.....
....but then I'm a nice guy, and anyone who says I'm not is getting a kicking.


Hi,

@Tripitaka,

Gosh, get rid of the kneepads already,

I THINK THE MODS DO ENOUGH WORK FOR FREE.

lol

smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 02:11:12 AM
Hi Smerf... :)

Gosh... you've overdosed on the old angry pills tonight... :eek:

While I thank you for your comments, you'd better watch out as even daring to mention a mods name these days gets you banned round here on the grounds that it's a personal attack... :rolleyes:

I mean just a few minutes after I posted my long post daring to speak the truth it was reported by a mod at 10:17 pm UK time for gawd know what trumped up reason this time and now I sit here awaiting my next ban... :rolleyes:

So it's best to keep out of it for your own sake as speaking your mind and speaking the truth these days seems to be against the TOS (obviously written in invisible ink so that folk cant read that part)... ;)

So you mad old bugger take a chill pill and some Jack Daniels and leave me to be the one who gets hammered for simply being honest... :)

Cheers

Franko
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 02:15:24 AM
Quote from: Franko;657075
Maybe so, but why would I instantly presume something someone has posted is not the truth and that what they have said is only being said in order to cause trouble... :confused:

I tend to (just like real life) observe what people say on a regular basis and take this into account before responding to them as I don't know these people personally... :)

Therefore it would be pretty arrogant to instantly presume that any post I read by someone is just out to cause trouble or not their true opinion... ;)


Hi,

@Franko,

Have you ever met me or read any of my posts?

Am I failing that bad?

GOD HELP ME!!!

the smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Tension on August 31, 2011, 02:22:06 AM
what a bunch of bitches you are.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 02:24:17 AM
Quote from: smerf;657092
Hi,

@Franko,

Have you ever met me or read any of my posts?

Am I failing that bad?

GOD HELP ME!!!

the smerf


Hi Smerf... :)

Only met you in me vivid imagination... :)

and never fail to read a Smerf post (one of the best things about this site)... :)

Nah... no way are you failing, there is nooo way under the sun that post could apply to you... :)

You were born to cause trouble, wind people up and tell porky pies just for the hell of it... :)

Gawd, wont help you either he's one of them numpites who uses the word "troll" all the time, so methinks he's got it in for you too... ;)

Cheers

Franko
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 02:24:27 AM
Quote from: Franko;657089
Hi Smerf... :)

Gosh... you've overdosed on the old angry pills tonight... :eek:

While I thank you for your comments, you'd better watch out as even daring to mention a mods name these days gets you banned round here on the grounds that it's a personal attack... :rolleyes:

I mean just a few minutes after I posted my long post daring to speak the truth it was reported by a mod at 10:17 pm UK time for gawd know what trumped up reason this time and now I sit here awaiting my next ban... :rolleyes:

So it's best to keep out of it for your own sake as speaking your mind and speaking the truth these days seems to be against the TOS (obviously written in invisible ink so that folk cant read that part)... ;)


So you mad old bugger take a chill pill and some Jack Daniels and leave me to be the one who gets hammered for simply being honest... :)

Cheers


Hi,

I have not yet begun to post.

Damn the Mods, full speed ahead

Run for your keyboards the Mods are coming

Anyone seen Karlos, GOOD lets keep it that way

Lets all do the Franko BIT

smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 02:25:04 AM
Quote from: Tension;657093
what a bunch of bitches you are.


That's no way to speak about the mods... :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: smerf on August 31, 2011, 02:40:10 AM
Quote from: Tension;657093
what a bunch of bitches you are.


Hi,

@Tension,

Oh you silly boy

smerf
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Kesa on August 31, 2011, 03:16:26 AM
Quote from: smerf;657086
Hi,

@Kesa,

Darn it Kesa write your darn name on the soles of your shoes, if you are going to crawl up there that deep, we at least want to know who it is.

smerf

I think someones jealous! Karlos is MINE! Get your own Karlos :madashell:

Alright then i feel sorry for you, here you go then... :knuddel: ... feel better now?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: bbond007 on August 31, 2011, 04:22:20 AM
That is one idea.

I would rather see banned people work it out on Jerry Springer or Dr. Phil.

http://www.drphil.com/
http://www.jerryspringertv.com/
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: TheBilgeRat on August 31, 2011, 04:43:36 AM
Just remember, its not a party until the sausage comes out.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 05:00:55 AM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;657110
Just remember, its not a party until the sausage comes out.


Zat mean vegetarians, vegans or vegetables or whatever they call themselves can't have parties... :confused:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 05:04:46 AM
@ Argo

Amiga.org via gator745.hostgator.com to me
show details 05:02 (2 minutes ago)
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL!
***************************

Dear Franko,

You have received a new private message at Amiga.org from Argo, entitled "You have received an infraction at Amiga.org".

To read the original version, respond to, or delete this message, you must log in here:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/private.php

This is the message that was sent:
***************
Dear Franko,

You have received an infraction at Amiga.org.

Reason: Signature Rule Violation
-------
You want a notice, well here it is.
You have questioned the moderation policy, moderation of your posts, your bans, attacked a moderator, questioned the TOS and posting guidelines. I'm not sure why you can't understand the simple rules and keep questioning or ridiculing them. Most are pretty standard or have been born out of past issues.
For your multiple violations and repeated violations, I am banning you for a week.

Argo
argo@twcny.rr.com

What on earth is this about
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Argo on August 31, 2011, 05:13:22 AM
Questioning moderation again. I even gave you the option to contact me via email. Just as you could have PMed me as I have not banned you yet.
I just don't understand what it is about the rules you can not comprehend.
Must be English is not your native tongue. Hmm, likely be Scottish....
As I've told you multiple times when I've had to deal with you for violations. Contact the mods or admin directly. Not make a big issue of it with vast public postings.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Argo on August 31, 2011, 05:15:05 AM
Read the ToS and posting guidelines. Multiple or on going violations will get you banned.
See my sig below.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 05:20:35 AM
In case your wondering why I didn't respond to you via PM that is because the last time I ever tried to ask you something via PM you responded with the reply...

TTFN

So it's obvious there is no point in trying to reason with someone like yourself and if speaking the truth and asking genuine and reasonable questions about the pathetic bias of certain moderators here including yourself then I shall do it publicly instead of getting such nonsensical answers from you like the one quoted in this post you sent me recently and as for your reason given in your current banning email well that's just complete BS and you know it.

Strange how you don't ban anyone else in this thread who questions things and there was no attack on a moderator again more blatant lies and utter BS you are using an excuse here to ban me.

You have shown yourself up as being totally unfit to be a moderator here and if you had any decency you would step down immediately.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2011, 05:21:58 AM
Quote from: Argo;657113
Questioning moderation again. I even gave you the option to contact me via email. Just as you could have PMed me as I have not banned you yet.
I just don't understand what it is about the rules you can not comprehend.
Must be English is not your native tongue. Hmm, likely be Scottish....
As I've told you multiple times when I've had to deal with you for violations. Contact the mods or admin directly. Not make a big issue of it with vast public postings.


As I said the last time I PM'd you about something all I got was the reply

TTFN

So why on earth would I bother to PM you ever again.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Argo on August 31, 2011, 05:25:44 AM
Quote from: Franko;657115
In case your wondering why I didn't respond to you via PM that is because the last time I ever tried to ask you something via PM you responded with the reply...

TTFN

So it's obvious there is no point in trying to reason with someone like yourself and if speaking the truth and asking genuine and reasonable questions about the pathetic bias of certain moderators here including yourself then I shall do it publicly instead of getting such nonsensical answers from you like the one quoted in this post you sent me recently and as for your reason given in your current banning email well that's just complete BS and you know it.


That is the second time you have brought that up and again you omit the text of the two previous PM in that conversation I made to you. Just as now you were doing the same thing. Questioning the rule and ridiculing them. You just don't seem to understand that you can ignore them and act with impunity. This is why Magnetic goes after you. Also, it is the reason I think you play into this tactics.

Quote

Strange how you don't ban anyone else in this thread who questions things and there was no attack on a moderator again more blatant lies and utter BS you are using an excuse here to ban me.

You have shown yourself up as being totally unfit to be a moderator here and if you had any decency you would step down immediately.


I'll be spending my remaining time here wisely for the benefit of the site.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: commodorejohn on August 31, 2011, 06:02:55 AM
*shakes head*
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Duce on August 31, 2011, 06:23:04 AM
If I wanted to watch little girls slap fight each other, there's a school a few blocks over.  I've never seen a bigger bunch of e-peen wrangling people than this place with the "me boss you not" BS.

More pissant, pedantic behavior from everyone.  Don't get me started on Franko.  He's an issue, but he can be dealt with.  With all due respect Argo, should have had mods take the high road and sh!tcan this thread before it gets 4 pages long, no?  

No - leave it to fester all day, then people in chime in in "boss" mode to get your points across.  There's like ZERO common sense here, staff AND user wise.  Just a bunch of 40 somethings that seem to be compensating for being picked on as children.

Can't people just be normal?

I apologize for adding gas to the fire, but Jesus people - use your heads.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Ban-rationale thread
Post by: Karlos on August 31, 2011, 07:10:24 AM
So, as I was saying, a thankless task...

Quote from: smerf
Just because Magnetic cannot keep from blasting Franko at every opportunity, doesn't mean that you should ban Franko, all Franko was doing is what Franko does best, defend himself, if you can't understand that, then you shouldn't be officiating this argument, Magnetic is the one that always starts the BS on Franko, when all Franko is doing is having fun on the site. He is bothering no one, except for Kesa (who we all bother), now I am not one of Franko's friends and I am always busting him, but me and him take it in stride, we get in no real arguments, but when I and Magnetic get into it, then you are in for a war, and to tell you the truth Magnetic is about as smart as a pissant walking up a tree. If you look at it, all the times Franko was banned is when he gets in a tassle with pis Magnetic, and he usually doesn't even say anything to him until Magnetic has opened his keyboard one to many times.

I find Franko's ban very unfair, and I am not even one of his friends. I just like reading his posts, he has a very petite way about him.

Let's be completely realistic here. You've tried to goad me countless times and if I reacted to you in the same way Franko reacts to magnetic, I'd fully expect to be moderated by the admin. However, I simply choose to ignore it as that's the adult thing to do. That and the fact that I actually don't believe for a second there's any genuine malice in it and quite like watching you figure out how far you can try to goad a moderator... ;)

However, your post above seems to imply this was an entirely one sided incident. It wasn't. Both Franko and Magnetic were warned, first in public, then by infraction and PM not to continue their bickering. When they didn't, they were both banned for the same length of time.

Quote from: Duce;657122

More pissant, pedantic behavior from everyone.  Don't get me started on Franko.  He's an issue, but he can be dealt with.  With all due respect Argo, should have had mods take the high road and sh!tcan this thread before it gets 4 pages long, no?  

Don't assume moderators are surgically wired into the site all day long with absolutely nothing better to do than clean up after people who seemingly do have nothing better to do than make a mess. We do have things such as jobs, families and beds.

It's 7am here and I've just woken up to this same four pages of drivel and other than comment to Argo, I quite agree regarding the action to be taken about the thread.

Thread closed.