New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1

[wawrzon]

It's a shame that AROS hasn't been more focused on 68k in the past, I think that had the most potential for bridging the gap between old and new hardware.

yes, perhaps its too late.

[guest11527]

 Some people want to maintain classic cars in their original form, others want to strip them down and rebuild them with different engine, suspension and lower the roof etc. The later only appeals to a minority, like OS3.5/3.9/4.x

I suggest to stick with 1.2 then. Everything else was not delivered with the original Amiga.  

 If it's not in ROM then it's taking up RAM.

Oh, com'on! How many MBs does the average Amiga has today? Do you think a couple of KBs do actually matter?

[psxphill]

I suggest to stick with 1.2 then. Everything else was not delivered with the original Amiga.

None of my original Amigas were ever delivered with 1.2

Oh, com'on! How many MBs does the average Amiga has today?

I have no idea & it's not relevant to my argument. It's relevant to your argument, so why don't you know?

Do you think a couple of KBs do actually matter?

The difference between software running or not could be 1 byte, but where are you getting "a couple of KBs" from. That was neither in the original statement or my reply.

[guest11527]

None of my original Amigas were ever delivered with 1.2
 
 Lying doesn't help your argument.

Who is lying? Did your Amgias come with 3.1 equipped? Mine did not. Mine came with 1.2, so who's lying?

The memory argument might have been an argument when Amigas came with 256K or 1MB. But those days are long gone, since a long time. If done properly, actually none of the system components should be ROM to ease upgrading, but I said this before. The A1000 had this, in a primitive and inconvenient form, and not exactly for the same reasons.

[psxphill]

Did your Amgias come with 3.1 equipped?

I bought original Amigas with 1.3 (A500), 3.0 (A1200) and 3.1 (A1200).

Mine did not. Mine came with 1.2, so who's lying?

You didn't say your Amiga, you said "the original Amiga". So I'd say it was you who is lying by trying to twist facts to justify your argument.

[BSzili]

I don't understand why people are so fixated on the fact that AROS strives for 3.1 compatibility. This doesn't mean that they won't implement anything beyond V40. Look at icon.library for example, it has DrawIconStateA(), which is a V44 function.

[wawrzon]

@bszili
+1. finally informed statement about the matter from someone who knows not only aros but os4, mos and genuine amiga from application programming standpoint.

[kolla]

In this time and day, I would say AROS goes way beyond original AmigaOS in terms of features, most important being that it is not locked to certain hardware. In time I'm sure someone will be intrigued enough to implement better support for Amiga chipsets too. In the meantime I'm perfectly happy with AROS on x86, with Directory Opus Magellan, tbh I forget that it is AROS when I use it these days.

[kolla]

I will be looking for an ARM based laptop of some sort, to build myself an environment with customized Linux setup and AROS hosted, and DOpus as DE

[Minuous]

@psxphill:

>>Not that there is anything sacred about Commodore.

>In terms of Provenance there is.

I suppose you think that an Amiga Technologies (Escom) A1200 is not a real Amiga then? Or that eg. a ZX Spectrum +3 isn't a real Spectrum, etc. because Amstrad had bought Sinclair. With that Ship of Theseus analogy, that was about whether it was still the real thing after every single component in it had been changed. OS3.9 is a big upgrade with lots of new features, but of course not every single byte in it is different from OS3.1.

>If it's not in ROM then it's taking up RAM.

I should point out that OS3.1 and even earlier versions used SetPatch to patch the ROM.

@wawrzon:

>im not so much advocating to attract regular customers to aros 68k at this point, but people who care, and are able to contribute in some way.

You seem to be suggesting that there are no regular users left in the community, only programmers. But I think the majority of Amiga users are still non-programmers. Maybe we should have a poll about this.

>finally informed statement about the matter from someone who knows not only aros but os4, mos and genuine amiga from application programming standpoint.

I've programmed for all these systems, so I believe I qualify...granted that for OS4/AROS there are other users that help with testing etc. Several of my programs are available for AROS x86. The rest would also be available, except for the fact that AROS is missing ReAction. How is software supposed to get ported to AROS when AROS lacks basic functionality that is part of the OS (not even undocumented functionality!) that the application absolutely depends upon? (In the interests of fairness, I should point out that both MOS and OS4 are missing some OS3.9 functionality too, but AROS is missing the most though.)

@BSzili:

>I don't understand why people are so fixated on the fact that AROS strives for 3.1 compatibility. This doesn't mean that they won't implement anything beyond V40.

Well, we've been waiting 15 years already...maybe if we wait another 15 it will have complete V45 support...? *Then* there might be a reason to switch to AROS...

[psxphill]

>>In terms of Provenance there is.

>I suppose you think that an Amiga Technologies (Escom) A1200 is not a >real Amiga then?

Why would you suppose that? Once you have reverted the floppy disk motherboard hack then it's mostly equivalent to a commodore A1200.

The AmigaOne isn't an Amiga though.

>I should point out that OS3.1 and even earlier versions used SetPatch to patch the ROM.

SetPatch goes back a very long way, but they were generally very small patches. OS3.5/3.9 replaced some libraries in ROM with disk based versions. Ideally you'd have the latest scsi.device in ROM.

[Terminills]

Well why not but can you buy it? for now it seems more vaporware than anything else no?

Kamelito

The PX60 was never promised by Rodolphe.  It all depends on how well the CTX60 sells.  However the CT60, CT63, CTPCI that he has previously released have been very high quality.

[kolla]

With all due respect, but from a user's point of view, Reaction has very little to offer over Zune (and/or MUI), and the only parts that rely on Reaction in OS3.9 are the preference programs - is the API of OS3.9 open enough to allow third party prefs programs to be written? I would love 68000 compatible equivalents for my minimig

[BSzili]

@BSzili:

>I don't understand why people are so fixated on the fact that AROS strives for 3.1 compatibility. This doesn't mean that they won't implement anything beyond V40.

Well, we've been waiting 15 years already...maybe if we wait another 15 it will have complete V45 support...? *Then* there might be a reason to switch to AROS...

I don't know how is this even related to what I've said. People have been complaining about AROS only implementing 3.1 functions and nothing from 3.5+ which isn't factually true. I for one don't want to convince you or anybody to use AROS, so you don't have to tell me your conditions of when you might switch to AROS

[NorthWay]

Actually 3.1 was released by Village Tronic, not Commodore.

For me, as a developer, it was released by Commodore. For the general public it might have been distributed by someone else, but it was still a Commodore product.

Not that there is anything sacred about Commodore.

Of course there is. After they died there haven't been anyone who has been universally agreed upon to hold all the rights to the fallen empire. If someone had stepped in and taken command then I would have agreed.

I don't see the relevance of whether the ROM upgrade is performed in firmware or software.

True(partially), but then again the 3.5/3.9 releases didn't really update the ROM parts much so not so much of a upgrade to the ROM contents? The Amiga being what it is is also more vulnerable the more of the code that lives in ram instead of rom, but I'm not suggesting to limit updates because of that.

Yes they do, obviously you haven't read the autodocs.

Touche. I'm sure I quickly browsed them when it was released. Can't have been much of interest to me if it didn't register. I obviously haven't done much Amiga side in the recent years (all of my machines have died on me now - bah).

[itix]

>OS 3.5 introduced GlowIcons (which I already had in NewIcons format)

NewIcons is just an unofficial "hack and patch" based on tooltypes, whereas GlowIcons is a proper upgrade to the icon system, the two are not at all equivalent.

Not really hack and patch. NewIcons just replaces original icon image with image encoded in tooltypes. It is slower but works and is quite clean. Glowicons append IFF ICON chunk to end of icon file. Users dont really care how icon data is stored.

>The more recent releases have no big API updates anyway

Yes they do, obviously you haven't read the autodocs.

I did. New calls in Exec are not important. Improved printer.device is useful only to few application developers who want to support printing and it is probably enough if you support Turboprint. Icon.library changes -- not very useful to average developers. Me being MUI developer I dont have to deal with icon.library except when using GetDiskObject() to get proper app icon and icon.library new API was probably meant to support future 3rd party WB enhancers (?). Workbench.library changes are nice, OpenWorkbenchObject() is one of few new API calls I have ever used.

ClassAct is avaibale from Aminet and had they chosen to use MUI instead it would have not made any difference.