Amiga.org

Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: Gulliver on October 20, 2009, 08:58:05 AM

Title: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Gulliver on October 20, 2009, 08:58:05 AM
Hi, i am not trying to be troll. The thing is that the new amiga.org website redesign is very good. But, when viewed with my Amiga either on Ibrowse or Aweb, it looks really awful. I know changes were made to keep up with the times, but then as I browse other websites such as amigaworld.net and amigans.net i see they display pretty well on Classic browsers.
So is it possible for Amiga.org to get a little bit more Amiga friendlier? I really enjoy amiga.org but it is a pitty it looks like crap on Classic Amigas.

I hope you see it as positive critizism, nothing more than that!
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: tone007 on October 20, 2009, 11:13:58 AM
User CP | Edit Options

Scroll down to the bottom, for Forum Skin select "mobile"

iBrowse and AWeb are pretty useless for rendering any modern site, there's no sane way to support them anymore. Only answer is an updated browser.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Wayne on October 20, 2009, 01:50:57 PM
This has been discussed about a thousand times.  Perhaps the new owners will see fit to write a backwards compatible theme (even though you'll lose 1/2 the functionality of the site) when they take over, but at this point in my life, I simply don't have it in me to spend the hundreds of hours required programming time for a dead browser any more.

All it would have taken is the author(s) of said dead browsers to support 1996 technology and we'd all have been much happier, so is it the author's fault for abandoning the platform altogether, or mine because I chose functionality over uselessness?  

The fact is, classic Amiga browsers make up less than 2% (roughly 8 to 10) of our viewers.  Most use PC's and Macs pretty evenly these days, most real Amiga users having moved to Mac years ago..

Like you, not trying to troll.  Just stating the way I feel about it.  The simple fact is that when moving to vBulletin, we had a choice between being fully functional (which we are) or being compatible with a 1994 level dead and unsupported browser set which is only used by less than 2% of our members.  

In order not to strand development of the site AGAIN, I chose the former.  Maybe the new owners will have the enthusiasm (and the spare time) to do something about it...

Wayne
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: arnljot on October 20, 2009, 02:19:17 PM
Btw, has it been released yet who the new owners are? Or do we have to wait?
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Acill on October 20, 2009, 04:01:51 PM
I have to agree with most of the others here. I love my Amiga's as much as anyone else, but the time are changing. If you havent been able to upgrade to a PPC and MOS on yours or get a mini and run MOS, or even a AOS 4.X machine then you need to expect to be left behind.

Go get a mini off craigs list and install the latest release of MOS, you will be shocked at how fast you forget the Amiga you use now. Even the 1.25ghz ones will be better then any current Amiga.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: kickstart on October 20, 2009, 04:50:06 PM
For read/write a text no one need complex forum systems but the reality is there:

Site for sale + look change = more money

Is one of the reasons, i think. Just an opinion.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Gulliver on October 20, 2009, 05:34:41 PM
Thanks for the kind replies. It is a pitty, but its the price of progress :(
Thanks Wayne for your response, and much more for supporting this site all over these years!

To the new owner of Amiga.org:
 
Please see the matter of applying code to support Classic Amiga´s browsers for further extending the userbase (at least a 2% of users, more if you take into account browsers spoofing).
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: save2600 on October 20, 2009, 05:57:48 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;526654

To the new owner of Amiga.org:
 
Please see the matter of applying code to support Classic Amiga´s browsers for further extending the userbase (at least a 2% of users, more if you take into account browsers spoofing).


When I get my Efika up and running with MorphOS, I plan on doing some Amiga browsing with OWB, iBrowse and AWeb. So yeah, 2% or not - would be nice if people running SAM's, A1's, Efika's and Pegasus' had a decent browsing experience on the few dedicated Amiga sites left.

Oh and as far as this site needing to be updated for "features".... more like 'security' reasons, wasn't it? You can keep all the new features, whatever they are. The old sites' look and functionality trounced this new one by a long shot and that's using any browser on any system - IMHO.

Having said that, I admire the job Wayne has done trying to get this new system to look and feel like the old one.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Bamiga2002 on January 07, 2010, 07:22:22 AM
Try NetSurf (http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/amiga/). It's a little slow (due to larger support i suppose) but it displays a lot more webpages than IBrowse.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: dougal on January 07, 2010, 08:03:56 AM
Quote from: Bamiga2002;536848
Try NetSurf (http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/amiga/). It's a little slow (due to larger support i suppose) but it displays a lot more webpages than IBrowse.


Netsurf unfortunatly is stupid because it needs OS4.

Is there no way a decent browser can be written? Even if it requires an 060 etc... etc... as long as it can run on >OS3.9.

Maybe someone can port firefox or something over.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Bamiga2002 on January 07, 2010, 09:54:35 AM
Quote from: dougal;536854
Netsurf unfortunatly is stupid because it needs OS4.

Is there no way a decent browser can be written? Even if it requires an 060 etc... etc... as long as it can run on >OS3.9.
There's NetSurf for m68k (http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/NetSurf-68k) too.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Fingers on January 07, 2010, 12:47:55 PM
Quote from: Bamiga2002;536860
There's NetSurf for m68k (http://aminet.net/package/comm/www/NetSurf-68k) too.


Cool, but maybe not suitable for everyone due to...quote:

"Requirements:

  * AmigaOS 3.x (no worries for almost all users)
  * Picasso96 / CGX graphic card (problem for some)
  * 128 MB Ram (problem for many)
  * Equivalent of 100 Mhz 060 Cpu (problem for many, many) "

Still cool though :)

PZ.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: 0amigan0 on January 07, 2010, 01:05:14 PM
Quote from: Fingers;536879
Cool, but maybe not suitable for everyone due to...quote:

"Requirements:

  * AmigaOS 3.x (no worries for almost all users)
  * Picasso96 / CGX graphic card (problem for some)
  * 128 MB Ram (problem for many)
  * Equivalent of 100 Mhz 060 Cpu (problem for many, many) "

Still cool though :)

PZ.

On RiscOS (where the netsurf project started) the ram requirements are far, far low.
If on Amiga, it was a 100% native application, instead of a quick'n'dirty port from Linux, it would be far more agile.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Bamiga2002 on January 07, 2010, 01:20:19 PM
Yes NetSurf on WB 3.1 is quite slow, but i use it only if IBrowse fails to display a certain webpage properly. On OS4 it's a tad faster and has nicer user interface. I wish they'd recompile the code for native 68k (and for PPC/WarpOS too :)).
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: arnljot on January 07, 2010, 01:40:04 PM
Netsurf GUI needs an intuition port if possible, also WarpOS would be nice.

But it's still a RAM eater, so it wouldn't help me much.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Tumbleweed on January 07, 2010, 02:03:56 PM
I pretty much use NetSurf as my primamry browser on my A4000D now since A.Org moved to the current set-up.  NetSurf isnt perfect but its still being developed and hopefully it'll get better over time.

Weed.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Fingers on January 07, 2010, 02:41:36 PM
Has anyone tried it on a machine with lesser specs than those listed?

I'd be interested to know if it works at all "under-spec" (however badly), or if the software simply won't install/work based on hardware requirements.

PZ.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: 0amigan0 on January 07, 2010, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: Fingers;536884
Has anyone tried it on a machine with lesser specs than those listed?

I'd be interested to know if it works at all "under-spec" (however badly), or if the software simply won't install/work based on hardware requirements.

PZ.


On RiscOS it requires at least a mere 16 MB Ram.
On amiga it's more heavyweight because of the use of ixemul library and because of the fact that it is not native.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Tumbleweed on January 07, 2010, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: Fingers;536884
Has anyone tried it on a machine with lesser specs than those listed?

I'd be interested to know if it works at all "under-spec" (however badly), or if the software simply won't install/work based on hardware requirements.

PZ.


Cool, but maybe not suitable for everyone due to...quote:

"Requirements:

* AmigaOS 3.x (no worries for almost all users)
* Picasso96 / CGX graphic card (problem for some)
* 128 MB Ram (problem for many)
* Equivalent of 100 Mhz 060 Cpu (problem for many, many) "

I'm running it on a 50mMhz  68060, but admittedly with 128MB and a gfx card. NetSurf is reasonable considering the hardware and what its doing in terms of rendering CSS. A native port would be much fastr though.

Weed.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Pyromania on January 07, 2010, 08:00:25 PM
Amiga.org will not be changing to accommodate outdated web browsers that don't support CSS properly. Even the Greeks back in Plato's time had a more modern web browser then some old Amiga browsers. The problem lies with the developers of those browsers not Amiga.org. As many have already stated there are other browsers available that are more modern.

Trying to kluge something together for an outdated browser would be a disservice to the Amiga.org community and a waste of time. If you want your favorite Amiga browser to support modern websites then contact it's developer and have them update it. If they don't updated their code you have gotten to the source of the problem. Support developers that are making progress and releasing new, up to date applications.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Matt_H on January 07, 2010, 10:58:03 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;536968
Amiga.org will not be changing to accommodate outdated web browsers that don't support CSS properly. Even the Greeks back in Plato's time had a more modern web browser then some old Amiga browsers. The problem lies with the developers of those browsers not Amiga.org. As many have already stated there are other browsers available that are more modern.

Trying to kluge something together for an outdated browser would be a disservice to the Amiga.org community and a waste of time. If you want your favorite Amiga browser to support modern websites then contact it's developer and have them update it. If they don't updated their code you have gotten to the source of the problem. Support developers that are making progress and releasing new, up to date applications.


And I'll add that Amiga.org does actually "work" with IBrowse, it's just not pretty.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: DyLucke on January 08, 2010, 09:06:40 AM
I'll use an Amiga browser whenever i'll be able to install MorphOS on my MacMini, i want to preserve the OSX partition and i didn't find the way to do it for now. (i must be dumb).

However i'm quite busy with other projects by now, C64 with 1541 ultimate, Atari XE with SIO2SD, and Atari STe with UltraSatan, plus... of course sorting all my Amiga stuff gathered along years and years to be installed on one of my A1200's with 40gb HDD... I have a lot of work, and Mac-Morphos is at the end of the row for now. But whenever i'll have it finished, i'm sure i'll drop the farging PC to a mere "ocassional use". I'll do almost all my routinary stuff with MOS on the mini.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: chris on January 08, 2010, 11:09:23 PM
Quote from: arnljot;536882
Netsurf GUI needs an intuition port if possible, also WarpOS would be nice.


The OS4 version has a Reaction GUI - it shouldn't need much tweaking for OS3.9.  There are other code parts which are more OS4 specific and will require retro-fitting.

Somebody who has the time and knowledge to look through it probably wouldn't have much trouble back-porting it to OS3.9.

Quote
But it's still a RAM eater, so it wouldn't help me much.


There's a caching bug in the current versions - a fix is being worked on.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: arnljot on January 08, 2010, 11:17:56 PM
@chris

Glad to hear it. Wish I could help out. But I have no clue about Amiga APIs
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: recidivist on January 09, 2010, 01:59:23 AM
Better than amiga.org support old iBrowse is that iBrowse be updated;same for AWeb.
Or  if better 68k browser out there ,all classic users switch to  whatever it is and hope/push/pay for work to update it.

Personally,i HATE it when any website refuses to let my "uotdated" browser view the common text-based and still pictures  that are all I really desire without  actually clicking on links/hotspots/ to start videos/audio, etc. But that doesn't fit the PUSH,PUSH idea of many website owners.Some sites require Flash to see anything.

I have old iBrowse buy use Seamonkey or Safari everyday.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: HammerD on January 17, 2010, 10:59:53 PM
Just like to jump in here...

Amiga.org is primarily a classic amiga site...the fact that it displays like sh*t on classic amigas is just plain WRONG.  Percentages, technologies, everything else aside, this site should be visible on the most popular classic browser, and that is IBrowse.

The fact that I can view Amigaworld.net and Amigans.Net perfectly fine on IBrowse 2.4 just adds to my frustration.

The new owners of Amiga.org should make it a priority to make this site viewable on classic amigas.  IMHO!

I find myself going more to Amigaworld.net and amigans.net these days...
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Gulliver on January 17, 2010, 11:22:56 PM
@HammerD

I am with you on what you said.
I dont understand how come Amiga.org dont support Classic Amigas anymore whilst other PPC Amiga based sites do support them!

So from this Amiga.org change onwards, Amiga.org encourages original Amiga 68k users to buy a graphics card or complain to the browser developer?

If that is the case then i will be forced in the future to look for a site/forum that really does support Amigas. Because times will change, computers will get faster, new technologies will arrive, and my Amiga will be ruled out eventually from Amiga-like sites/forums as this one, but they dont understand i will still cherish my original old Commodore-Amiga, as religiously as a car collector treasures his Ford T model.

Note to myself: Ghz, Terabytes, multiple cores, memory protection, etc rule over an excellent old piece of computing engineering :(
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on January 17, 2010, 11:35:26 PM
Quote from: HammerD;538801
Just like to jump in here...

Amiga.org is primarily a classic amiga site...the fact that it displays like sh*t on classic amigas is just plain WRONG.  Percentages, technologies, everything else aside, this site should be visible on the most popular classic browser, and that is IBrowse.


There are a few problems with your statement. You can't throw "percentages" aside and then talk about "most popular" classic browser. I'd be willing to wager the vast majority of visitors to the site before moving to vBulletin were not using IBrowse.

In case you didn't read it, the site was updated to use a new forum engine because there was no other realistic alternative.

Here's a suggestion. I was thinking about doing this myself but I feel lacking in urgency since the only amiga browser I use here is OWB. So, why not learn PHP and write a proxy script that parses whatever page you requested, reformats it to remove all the CSS related guff, converting it (where necessary) to some tables based view and redirect all amiga.org referencing links to pass back through the proxy. Once it's working satisfactorily, ask the new owners nicely if they can make it run on a sub domain. The only tricky bits I can see is session management and the fact it would increase server load when it's used. However that shouldn't be a problem since a tiny percentage of users would actually use it.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: CountRaven on January 18, 2010, 03:38:17 AM
I wonder what kind of "software machine" / "method" is used behind http://www.amigaworld.net and http://www.amigans.net making them viewable to IBrowse....

Do you know what is the biggest advantage of IBrowse making it still the main browser for classic Amiga users? It is FAST!!!! It is faster on my 030 1200 and faster on my 1200 PPC and even faster on my 4000 PPC. Plus it has a veyr good download manager and some other stuff.

Many bonus points @ NetSurf for bringing CSS @ 68k but sorry to say it is still SLOW so it remains useless in the 68k world.

No I would not count the OWB 68k version cause it was SLOWER THAN HELL even on a PPC.

I basically want to browse the Amiga forums with my classic Amigas, just for fan. Something like "dive into the Amiga world using a real Amiga" thing. OWB offers goods speed under OS4 but what about OS 3.x?

The big goal for me is: Bring the lightness and the speed of Ibrowse to a CSS capable browser -like NetSurf- in 68k an dOS 3.x-

Ok I do not expect to run such a program into an AGA machine @ 020 but it is insane not to have a real fast browser under OS 3.x on Amigas with 128MB RAM and gfx cards.

I will be the first one to donate a real good amount of money for an improved FAST version of NetSurf -or any other browser-.

Perhaps someone can ask for the sources of IBrowse taking em as a guide or something.

Until then: IBrowse rules!!!!!!
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: LoadWB on January 18, 2010, 03:47:38 AM
@Karlos:

Hear hear.  I was going to essentially propose what you have presented, but also add that anyone who requires exacting support for classic Amiga browsers should pony up the money to have an interface designed to do just that.

AO works fine in iBrowse.  I guess I have just become accustomed to scrolling through the slough caused by mis- or non-interpretation of CSS in mobile browsers and Lynx.  You can log in, read messages, post messages, view pictures.

And GHz and other irrelevant sundries do not conspire against working technology, but instead the proponents of aged and arguably obsolete technolgy often conspire against the progression of technology, demanding that it become cumbersome and bulky to provide backwards compatibility, while out the other side of the same mouth complaining about how new technology is "bloated" and using this as an argument for staying with said older technology.

Pfah.  Next we should all complain about how the Internet is not accessible via BBS dialup and interface, or about the death of our FidoNET email addresses.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Gulliver on January 18, 2010, 04:05:30 AM
@LoadWB

You are taking it out of context. To keep it small and simple:
How can an Amiga web site do not support Amigas?
Okay, if you have a really expanded one you can... but NOT an original Commodore-Amiga.


Website should then be renamed Amiga-like.org or Amiga-ish.org or even AmigaNG.org :)
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Marcb on January 18, 2010, 06:00:49 AM
@Thread
Life really is too short to keep rehashing old arguments, however, (:))
I understand the point of view of those who say an Amiga site should support Amiga browsing but as with most things in life, the website is designed for the ease of use of the majority. (Kinda like this democracy thing we all seem to like)
 
People viewing Amiga.org with a classic Amiga are in the minority therefore they are not catered for.
 
I guess the reason we all continue to argue about the same old things is because as Amiga users we are by definition unhappy with change. ;)
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on January 18, 2010, 08:08:42 AM
Quote from: CountRaven;538829
I wonder what kind of "software machine" / "method" is used behind http://www.amigaworld.net and http://www.amigans.net making them viewable to IBrowse....


Exactly the same thing that used to be behind here before the server upgrade (ie XOOPS).

However, this site was significantly older than either of the other two and locked into an obsolete version of XOOPS that couldn't be readily upgraded. When the hosting company set a deadline to upgrade to PHP5, that was a death warrant to the version of XOOPS that was in use. There are newer versions of XOOPS, but they are no more IBrowse friendly than vBulletin is.

Comparing old browser compatibility on this site to amigaworld.net is pointless. They are running an IBrowse friendly version of XOOPS because they are still in a position to.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: CountRaven on January 18, 2010, 09:33:12 AM
So if we now want to setup a forum friendly for IBrowse should we use vBulletin???
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on January 18, 2010, 10:11:08 AM
Quote from: CountRaven;538870
So if we now want to setup a forum friendly for IBrowse should we use vBulletin???

Nope, you should find an older version of xoops, or write your own. Present versions of vB/XOOPS tend to be aimed at browsers that support things that have been considered standard over the last decade.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: amigadave on January 18, 2010, 10:13:33 AM
Quote from: Gulliver;538835
@LoadWB

You are taking it out of context. To keep it small and simple:
How can an Amiga web site do not support Amigas?
Okay, if you have a really expanded one you can... but NOT an original Commodore-Amiga.


Website should then be renamed Amiga-like.org or Amiga-ish.org or even AmigaNG.org :)

The original Amigas were not equipped to run current web browsers even when they were new and still being sold in stores.  If you want a half-way decent web browsing experience using an Amiga(Like) OS then buy a SAM440ep/flex, or a used Pegasos, or G4 MacMini and run OWB web browser.  It still won't be a current web browser experience like what you would expect to get on Windows, MacOSX, or Linux, but OWB runs great on my 1.5GHz G4 MacMini running MorphOS2.4!  I have read that NetSurf is also becoming a better program very quickly and some people are very happy using that.

OWB on my 1.5GHz G4 MacMini is faster than Firefox3.5 on my 3.0GHz Quad Core Extreme Windows Vista Ultimate PC, though it does not have all the bells and whistles yet.

Personally, I could do with a bit less of those bells and whistles on the Internet, but what the Internet has become will not stride backwards and will continue to become more complicated and more of a mess with the passing of time.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Gulliver on January 18, 2010, 10:25:47 AM
So to sum up, upgrade or die :(
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: CountRaven on January 18, 2010, 10:32:27 AM
Quote
So to sum up, upgrade or die
Perhaps this should go for the 68k browsers and not the machines.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: DiskDoctor on January 18, 2010, 11:44:26 AM
I once wrote here (a year ago actually) that redirecting ancient browsers to mobile content might do the job.  But there are tests required, this new CMS supports mobile rendering also.

Better this than nothing.  And it still may work.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: nicholas on January 18, 2010, 01:38:56 PM
OWB has been available for AROS for ages has it not?

Surely if it compiles on an OS3.1 clone it will compile on the actual OS3.1?
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on January 18, 2010, 02:10:30 PM
Quote from: nicholas;538888
OWB has been available for AROS for ages has it not?

Surely if it compiles on an OS3.1 clone it will compile on the actual OS3.1?


Perhaps it has dependencies on AROS features not available on 3.1?

In any event, it might prove too slow for any real m68k CPU.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Tomas on January 18, 2010, 04:23:33 PM
OWB works just fine.. Which should run fine on ppc equipped classics as well. You cant really expect full support for browsers that has not really been updated in a decade.
Soon we will have firefox"timberwolf" on OS4.x capable machines as well.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Tomas on January 18, 2010, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;538835
@LoadWB

You are taking it out of context. To keep it small and simple:
How can an Amiga web site do not support Amigas?
Okay, if you have a really expanded one you can... but NOT an original Commodore-Amiga.


Website should then be renamed Amiga-like.org or Amiga-ish.org or even AmigaNG.org :)
I guess you would expect commodore oriented sites to fully support c64/c128 as well? If you fully support such outdated browsers you would ruin the experience for 99% of the users since nearly all use modern browsers these days. OS4.x is just as much "amiga" as the classic. You can still use this site if you change to the mobile version anyways.

There is nothing stopping you from adding functionality to for example Aweb yourself..
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: LoadWB on January 18, 2010, 04:36:24 PM
Quote from: Karlos;538863
Exactly the same thing that used to be behind here before the server upgrade (ie XOOPS).

However, this site was significantly older than either of the other two and locked into an obsolete version of XOOPS that couldn't be readily upgraded. When the hosting company set a deadline to upgrade to PHP5, that was a death warrant to the version of XOOPS that was in use. There are newer versions of XOOPS, but they are no more IBrowse friendly than vBulletin is.


Even if AO could have colo'd its own box (some places are pretty cheap, $100/mo sans management,) I believe the security implications of running PHP4 and older XOOPS would be too large to be worth it.

People tend to not realize that older technology is often abandoned for security issues and not simply functional issues.  For instance, the Windows 9x kernel is dead and no longer supported because in the face of modern cyber-warfare, it is worse than Swiss cheese and does not have the internal framework necessary to provide the hefty security needed to survive.

One would not mount a deadbolt on a straw door.  Sure, one could put a reinforced backing on the straw door, but the frame would no longer support the door, nor the house support a reinforced frame, and so on.  At some point you just need to replace the whole thing.

Bear in mind, while it does lack important features such as protected memory, I speak not specifically to the Amiga.  More so, I speak to the Amiga-era frameworks and applications, such as PHP4 and XOOPS, which had to be moved beyond.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: nicholas on January 18, 2010, 05:29:46 PM
Quote from: Karlos;538890
Perhaps it has dependencies on AROS features not available on 3.1?

In any event, it might prove too slow for any real m68k CPU.

OpenSSL, Curl, Fontconfig, ICU, SDL and of course MUI seem to be the main dependencies.

I'm not sure whether an 060 could handle the resources required, but PUP/WOS machines maybe? UAE/Amithlon machines obviously would have no speed issues.

Anyhow, i suppose the only way it would ever be seen would be if a developer needed that itch to be scratched and ported it. :)

http://sszymczy.rootnode.net/index.php?menu=projects&submenu=owb
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: odin on January 18, 2010, 06:55:17 PM
This reminds me of the issue in the old days that people used to say that gamers killed the Amiga because they didn't upgrade their Amigas like their PC brethren did.

-edit-
And I sort of agree with that sentiment =).
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Drummerboy on January 18, 2010, 09:14:46 PM
My question is.---

Really is so hard to make a browser as iBrowse can view flash, and some other things?
You know becouse thats the big problem in Ibrowse and AWEB..
I  dont uderstand how projects like Mozilla firefox, are a Free software, and projects like Ibrowse or AWEB (Now are opened) was  a  comercial products but not meet the expectations and minimum requirements..
Anyway, i know the times are changing, but its very cool Browse the Web with your Amiga Classic, with your Classic OS.. you know..only you and your very  classic Amiga!..
Its like take a ride in your Vintage Classic Car!!!..YEAH!!
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on January 29, 2010, 09:56:53 PM
Quote from: Karlos;538803
Here's a suggestion. I was thinking about doing this myself but I feel lacking in urgency since the only amiga browser I use here is OWB. So, why not learn PHP and write a proxy script that parses whatever page you requested, reformats it to remove all the CSS related guff, converting it (where necessary) to some tables based view and redirect all amiga.org referencing links to pass back through the proxy. Once it's working satisfactorily, ask the new owners nicely if they can make it run on a sub domain. The only tricky bits I can see is session management and the fact it would increase server load when it's used. However that shouldn't be a problem since a tiny percentage of users would actually use it.

Talk about (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_1.jpg) following your (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_2.jpg) own advice (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_3.jpg) ;-)
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: nicholas on January 29, 2010, 10:34:02 PM
Quote from: Karlos;540633
Talk about (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_1.jpg) following your (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_2.jpg) own advice (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_3.jpg) ;-)

Now available on the new subdomain http://baf.amiga.org no doubt! ;-)
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Drummerboy on January 29, 2010, 10:44:40 PM
Quote from: Karlos;540633
Talk about (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_1.jpg) following your (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_2.jpg) own advice (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_3.jpg) ;-)


Wich Browser its  thats pics?
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on January 29, 2010, 10:45:05 PM
@nicholas

Nope, though I'd be happy to put it on a subdomain here if the owners agree.

Still needs a fair bit of work though, but you can log in and post. Who would have thought how much work is involved in degrading perfectly good CSS / XHTML into that chicken soup that is HTML4? You know, I actually forgot all about the tag :lol:
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on January 29, 2010, 10:47:13 PM
Quote from: Drummerboy;540643
Wich Browser its  thats pics?

IBrowse 2.4 as included with OS4.1 Update 1 (the hint is in the window title ;))
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: smerf on January 29, 2010, 11:06:21 PM
Hi,

@most real amiga users,

" most real Amiga users having moved to Mac years ago"

Thats funny I use a real computer that plays great games, and I am a PC.

Lets see a Mac can write pages of script, and do data basing, and can do spread sheets, and can chew up a lot of money on software, and is used by people who really don't want to know much about computers. Boy did Jobs do a job on you.

smerf
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: amiga92570 on January 29, 2010, 11:08:06 PM
I use IBrowse on many systems and it is good and reliable. It is not up to date, but it is what it is. And it works.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: GadgetMaster on February 02, 2010, 12:46:52 AM
Quote from: Karlos;540633
Talk about (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_1.jpg) following your (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_2.jpg) own advice (http://extropia.co.uk/img/fossil/ao_fossil_3.jpg) ;-)


Wow that's amazing Karlos.  :eek:
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Hell Labs on February 02, 2010, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: smerf;540655
Hi,

@most real amiga users,

" most real Amiga users having moved to Mac years ago"

Thats funny I use a real computer that plays great games, and I am a PC.

Lets see a Mac can write pages of script, and do data basing, and can do spread sheets, and can chew up a lot of money on software, and is used by people who really don't want to know much about computers. Boy did Jobs do a job on you.

smerf

Quick! To the stereotypemobile!
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Karlos on February 02, 2010, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: GadgetMaster;541101
Wow that's amazing Karlos.  :eek:


It's not ready yet but it's making progress.
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: danwood on February 02, 2010, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: nicholas;540639
Now available on the new subdomain http://baf.amiga.org no doubt! ;-)


Hmmn 404 here
Title: Re: Amiga.org - Ibrowse and Aweb support sucks
Post by: Hell Labs on February 02, 2010, 09:09:11 PM
Quote from: danwood;541229
Hmmn 404 here

It was only a joke, it's not actually there.

I think it's great you're doing this, I know I'd be on the amiga side more if I could use a lighter browser than netsurf or owb.