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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: yssing on January 15, 2011, 11:10:20 PM
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Please make suggestions.
In the little spare time I have, I am trying to build an RTS game, because I want to do it and because I want to learn AmiBlitz.
It will need a graphics card or WinUAE.
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That it be playable with 1 meg chipram :)
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Look at Dune 2 on the Amiga for inspiration it is almost perfect!
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I have played Dune 2 many many times. But more input is needed.
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Factors I tend to look for in RTS
Base building / resource acquisition (as opposed to capture points / ground control, though they can be used in tandem).
A decent technology tree with new and/or upgraded units available depending on the structures so far built.
Variation in unit types/capabilities.
Balanced units/structures for opposing factions. They don't have to be the same at every level, but the overall potential of each faction should be comparable.
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I prefer turn based, but for an RTS, I'd say, Dune 2 style but without having to click on "move" and "attack" constantly.
A pausable game is great too, for issuing orders.
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Look at Dune 2 on the Amiga for inspiration it is almost perfect!
You are joking right? :confused:
Last year i played Dune2000 from start until the end and it is really showing it's age. Remember that the game is the same as Dune 2 but with better graphics and music.
Let's see. No presets available for making custom squadrons, stupid AI, unbalanced weapons such as Combat Tanks, etc. But the biggest criticism of all is the same for all other Real Time Strategy Games - the lack of strategy. They really should be called Real Time Tactics (RTT) instead because the person who can point and click the mouse faster will usually prevail which isn't really strategy.
If you are going to make an RTS (RTT?) i think you should look at modern games that puts focus on strategy like Warhammer. Just my opinion :)
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You are joking right? :confused:
Last year i played Dune2000 from start until the end and it is really showing it's age. Remember that the game is the same as Dune 2 but with better graphics and music.
Let's see. No presets available for making custom squadrons, stupid AI, etc. But the biggest criticism of all is the same for all other Real Time Strategy Games - the lack of strategy. They really should be called Real Time Tactics (RTT) instead because the person who can point and click the mouse faster will usually prevail which isn't really strategy.
If you are going to make an RTS (RTT?) i think you should look at modern games that puts focus on strategy like Warhammer. Just my opinion :)
To be honest, on the computer, virtually none of them are "strategy" games unless you get into something like Hearts of Iron.
Somewhat unrelated, I'd LOVE to see a game in the vein of the Close Combat series for the amiga. Obviously might need to be simplified a bit. Heck, could even have graphics ala Cannon Fodder :)
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Factors I tend to look for in RTS
I would like to see a more sophisticated unit balancing system than rock, paper, scissors!
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I would like to see a more sophisticated unit balancing system than rock, paper, scissors!
yes, like what then :)
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Make a remake of Age of Empires II: Age of Kings: The Conquerors Expansion. The Ultimate best "RTS" game ever!
Once the remake is done then you can start expanding on it and improving it! Woohooo!!!
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But the biggest criticism of all is the same for all other Real Time Strategy Games - the lack of strategy. They really should be called Real Time Tactics (RTT) instead because the person who can point and click the mouse faster will usually prevail which isn't really strategy.
I call "RTS" games what they are. They are action games. Fast, furious, relentless, action.
If RTS games are strategy games then Turrican2, Ms. Pacman, and Stunt Car Racer are strategy games too!
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Age of Empires II? Hearts of Iron? Don't make me laugh! :roflmao:
If you are up for a real startegy game try chess! Can't argue with chess being the ultimate game of strategy. The best strategist's in the world are chess players!
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That it be playable with 1 meg chipram :)
I second this! I'd love to have a new Amiga RTS game that runs on the real hardware, and there's certainly no need for the game to require more colours or a higher resolution than an OCS Amiga can handle. Since this is a small one-man project (at least for now) it would be smart to keep it simple, not trying to add too many advanced features right off. Even he level of complexity of something like the first Warcraft game would be more than welcome to the Amiga platform.
Check this out for example, this artist pixelled a whole set of graphics for a 16 colour RTS game and nothing ever seemed to come about from it, perhaps you could team up and build the game that he was designing here: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=10001.0
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z212/gastrop0d/mut_rts_mock_12-1.png)
If you want to see what kind of RTS a 1MB Amiga is capable of other than Dune 2, download this abandoned example game: http://aminet.net/package/game/strat/battlecraft
(http://hol.abime.net/pic_full/screenshot/4201-4300/4290_screen4.png)
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I don't think 1MB is enough to make an RTS game anything great. It's just not enough Ram.
I remember playing Dune 2 on my A500 with 1MB RAM and was really frustrated at the way it slowed down to a crawl everytime more than 1 unit was on the screen. Then i watched it on a friends PC with 8 MB Ram and watched it fly!
I'm sure it may be possible to get around this somehow but does it have to be only 1 MB? I'm pretty sure most people who would play this 1MB RTS game who have classic Amigas to play them on would have expanded and upgraded them significantly with more RAM and faster CPU's enough to make a 1MB benchmark seem small minded. And you know the year is 2011 and not 1990. In 1990 1MB was a good target to aim for but in 2011 i think we can be a little more ambitious than that. What about 8MB running 25Mhz?
I don't see the point in limiting new games to OCS or ECS. It wouldn't hurt or be too hard to put more colours and a higher res in there. Especially after seeing the fantastic glow icons being made.
Just my opinion :)
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I don't think 1MB is enough to make an RTS game anything great. It's just not enough Ram.
I remember playing Dune 2 on my A500 with 1MB RAM and was really frustrated at the way it slowed down to a crawl everytime more than 1 unit was on the screen. Then i watched it on a friends PC with 8 MB Ram and watched it fly!
I'm sure it may be possible to get around this somehow but does it have to be only 1 MB? I'm pretty sure most people who would play this 1MB RTS game who have classic Amigas to play them on would have expanded and upgraded them significantly with more RAM and faster CPU's enough to make a 1MB benchmark seem small minded. And you know the year is 2011 and not 1990. In 1990 1MB was a good target to aim for but in 2011 i think we can be a little more ambitious than that. What about 8MB running 25Mhz?
I don't see the point in limiting new games to OCS or ECS. It wouldn't hurt or be too hard to put more colours and a higher res in there. Especially after seeing the fantasic glow icons being made.
Just my opinion :)
there are plenty of games out there for machines of higher caliber. If anything, I would love to see some retro action. I have a friend whose autistic son does nothing but write super mario brothers levels in assembler. Considering that most Amigas out there are classics I would think that should be the market to hit (assuming that this project is all about the fun and learning aspect). I'm all for an AGA option or 2M capable, but I am sure there are ways to make a great RTS work in 1 meg. I just don't want anyone not running a Voodoo3 in a 1200T or 4000 with mediator to be excluded.
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I can't stand the rock, paper, scissors style units either. Have a look at Panzer General 2 and related SSI games. The units are very variable in strength and terrain is a factor in battles. Do that in an RTS and it may hook me in.
Although you don't have to bother with single player in the networking age if you do... Have the AI mass armies instead of just sending out little skirmish forces at regular intervals.
Have a good story joining your campaign together.
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I would say that you should definitely shoot for the 1MB ram. In fact, I would shoot for the MiniMig specs. We are very close to having a free Amiga operating system running on the free Amiga compatible machines that are now being sold. I would be very suprised if the MiniMigs didn't start shipping with AROS once the 68k version is ready. No doubt, they would like to include a selection of games on it as well.
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I can't stand the rock, paper, scissors style units either. Have a look at Panzer General 2 and related SSI games. The units are very variable in strength and terrain is a factor in battles. Do that in an RTS and it may hook me in.
Although you don't have to bother with single player in the networking age if you do... Have the AI mass armies instead of just sending out little skirmish forces at regular intervals.
Have a good story joining your campaign together.
Actually, I'd be all over more games in the vein of Battle Isle and Panzer General.
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I can't stand the rock, paper, scissors style units either. Have a look at Panzer General 2 and related SSI games. The units are very variable in strength and terrain is a factor in battles. Do that in an RTS and it may hook me in.
I agree. The elephant chases the dog, the dog chases the cat, the cat chases the mouse and the mouse chases the elephant :roflmao:
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If you use tieght restrictions like 1MB ChipRam, the game wont be better than Dune2. This would be illusoric. It will be much worse because you have less time and less experience than the developers of Dune2.
For acceptable results, raise the specs at least to RTG, 64MB RAM, 50MHz+.
Note: Programming is totally different, if you target low-spec, mid-spec or high-spec. Probably your choise depends on what you want to learn.
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If you use tieght restrictions like 1MB ChipRam, the game wont be better than Dune2. This would be illusoric. It will be much worse because you have less time and less experience than the developers of Dune2.
For acceptable results, raise the specs at least to RTG, 64MB RAM, 50MHz+.
Note: Programming is totally different, if you target low-spec, mid-spec or high-spec. Probably your choise depends on what you want to learn.
Maybe but wasn't Dune2 actually made for the PC and then ported over to other platforms? It's not really the type of game Amiga's were known for this being RTS or FPS. Amiga was famous for its arcade games. If the game was actually made for the Amiga in mind it would have worked a lot better i think :)
PS - "tieght" is actually "tight". Naughty boy!
Follow this link. www.amiga.org/forums/group.php?groupid=50 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/group.php?groupid=50)
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/group.php?groupid=50)
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If you use tieght restrictions like 1MB ChipRam, the game wont be better than Dune2. This would be illusoric. It will be much worse because you have less time and less experience than the developers of Dune2.
For acceptable results, raise the specs at least to RTG, 64MB RAM, 50MHz+.
Note: Programming is totally different, if you target low-spec, mid-spec or high-spec. Probably your choise depends on what you want to learn.
Limiting yourself to those specs will pretty much mean nobody plays the game.
And hell, look at Populous, megalomania, K240 etc.
You can do tons of great gaming on an unexpanded machine
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Absolutely MUST use just 1Mb of chip RAM! Allow for liberal use of expanded fast RAM, but keep the chip RAM need low. This would allow most classic Amiga users to use the game too.
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Hmm, make it run on a Minimig perhaps, as a middle ground? 2MB, fast 68000, but original chipset. If you can make passable graphics in 16 colours, then 64 colours EHB should produce some lovely graphics.
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Well if I can get amiblitz to compile for a resolution of 320 * 240 * 64 then I might take a swing at it. Need graphics though.
But atm. I am playing with alphablending in amiblitz. RTG is needed for that
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Limiting yourself to those specs will pretty much mean nobody plays the game.
And hell, look at Populous, megalomania, K240 etc.
You can do tons of great gaming on an unexpanded machine
I recently installed syndicate again on my 2000. Holy crap that platform had potential! I have 1M chip and 2m fast and no expansion. It bogs down some when there are a lot of people walking about, but I was struck at how easily a fallout style rpg could have been built on top of that. I also am curious how the people spawn on the map (ie if they are in memory whether or not they are on the screen). I wonder the odds of Looney Molyneux kicking the old Syndicate code out there to roam free :D
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Metal Fatigue on the PC was damn near perfect. A Starcraft clone for sure but it had it's own merits.
Basically, if I were you, I would look at Warcraft 1 & 2. Start there.
To me, what would make it better is if your individual units could "gain levels". Some RTS PC games do this.
RTTS - real time tactical strategy is a more fitting game. Look at the 'tactics' games on the GBA/DS/PSP as well as the AdvanceWars series for inspiration. Those are turn-based. The genre is tactical stragedy because you don't only control 1 avatar...but many. That's where the stragedy is. How you build them up, where you place them, etc.
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I recently installed syndicate again on my 2000. Holy crap that platform had potential! I have 1M chip and 2m fast and no expansion. It bogs down some when there are a lot of people walking about, but I was struck at how easily a fallout style rpg could have been built on top of that. I also am curious how the people spawn on the map (ie if they are in memory whether or not they are on the screen). I wonder the odds of Looney Molyneux kicking the old Syndicate code out there to roam free :D
yeah, an RPG on something like that engine would have a ton of potential, or even a larger scale military tactical game.
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I love RTS games, it was a great shame Amiga never got Command & Conquer until it got open sourced, I wounder if Clickboom would ever consider open sourcing Napalm, I love that game a bit hard but show what a slightly upgraded Amiga can do.
I'm not too sure but did'nt another RTS game called moonbase run on a basic amiga?
One of my fav RTS game after the Amiga was the crays Z game, I think it was planned to be ported to the Amiga. Would like something like that.
Infact I kind of alway felt Cannon Fodder could of be turned into more of rts, Z kind of game. thats what I would like to see.
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I wouldn't mind a new game in the same style as Napalm... it was almost perfect, at least when it was released in '98.
Some updated graphics (not 3d) and we would have a winner... !
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Napalm was awesome, but a bit unfair in the "AI" since the enemy was always atleast one level above you.
Napalm was RTG only.
Exodus was/is also great.
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in answer to the question posed by the thread title. I would have to answer, Real time strategy
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Napalm was RTG only.
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Nope, it is AGA or RTG.
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Napalm looked nice, but I think hand crafted pixels rather than rendered graphics could look better.
My advice would be aim for 68000 and 1mb chip, it will teach you how to code tightly, and well. Also, you'd be aiming for the biggest audience (hell, even my phone and dreamcast can run that spec on an emu!)
But remember you are writing in basic, so your never going to get top speed unless you can implement some inline assembler.
I'd start simple, just getting your guys moving on a tiled back ground, and work up from there.
You could always increase the spec later in the project, or for a later version.
Obviously there are lots of sites with ripped sprites and tiles you could use as stand in's. Once a graphics artist sees your engine running, i'm sure they'd jump at the chance to work with you!
at a minimum, id say it would be nice to have: group select, Attack guard and waypoint, base building, repair units, fog of war, veteran units, and a nice storyline ;)
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Nope, it is AGA or RTG.
Cool. I ever only played it using RTG. Years and years ago...
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I wouldn't mind a new game in the same style as Napalm... it was almost perfect, at least when it was released in '98.
Some updated graphics (not 3d) and we would have a winner... !
Thanks for kind words, i composed OST for Napalm (audio-cd tracks) and we was 3 people who developed Napalm with little help of clickBOOM staff :)
BTW here i have remastered edition of soundtrack at a very cheesy price 1 EUR: :)
http://martindemsky.bandcamp.com/album/napalm-soundtrack
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This is best RTS ever :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stronghold_(2001_video_game)
It has many good features, it is still fun.
AOE2 is pooring clic&click game. Most annoying feature is that castles and walls doesn't actually protect troops, mean enemy can actyally shoot through castles/walls. Can't hide troops behind them.
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Thanks for kind words, i composed OST for Napalm (audio-cd tracks) and we was 3 people who developed Napalm with little help of clickBOOM staff :)
BTW here i have remastered edition of soundtrack at a very cheesy price 1 EUR: :)
http://martindemsky.bandcamp.com/album/napalm-soundtrack
1 Euro?! Even I can afford that! After listening to it for a few tracks on the site I was sold, thank you! :)
Would you ever consider working on another Amiga game some day? Some of us are still trying to keep the dream alive and a talented musician would be really appreciated. Perhaps you would like to make a few tracks for Tracker Hero, the Amiga Guitar Hero clone, it's a great way to promote your music with Amiga users and retro gamers.
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Cammy thanks ;) Tracker Hero? Nice youtube video i found, but i am not tracking for 10 years, i prefer to record and play live, and sometimes in NanoStudio on iPhone :)
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Would it be possible to release a level editor for Napalm?
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hello, i asked this question to other two members of Ablaze team, and they negotiated it, sorry.
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Could they have something interesting to publish here?
Amiga Games That Weren't
http://agtw.abime.net/
There is a thread in eab.abime.net about agtw
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You should give power monger a go.
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A good RTS will benefit from having different factions that play completely differently. Starcraft does this very well.
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Well if I can get amiblitz to compile for a resolution of 320 * 240 * 64 then I might take a swing at it. Need graphics though.
You did see the post by @Cammy on the first page, right?