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Author Topic: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology  (Read 10517 times)

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Offline kamelito

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2015, 09:10:42 AM »
Quote from: TrevorDick;798245
Not wanting to create even further confusion but....

The call for developers covers all Amiga flavours. The wiki referred to in the A-EON news release is the A-EON specific developer wiki not the excellent AmigaOS 4 wiki.  The A-EON wiki is for developers working our specific 68k and PowerPC applications.

TrevorD


When you write "The A-EON wiki is for developers working our specific 68k and PowerPC applications." does it means that developers who are working on their own apps published in in your store won't have access to the wiki?

Kamelito
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2015, 09:38:04 AM »
Quote from: SACC-guy;798223
Already done! Just look at the wiki site...bottom left for printing options!
At the AmiWest2015 Devcon, one attendee brought his printed rkm to show and tell.

Either i'm stupid (highly likely!) or this feature isn't as great as I first thought.

Each small section of the wiki has to be exported separately as a PDF or added section by section to the book creator wizard before exporting and printing.

Would be nice to just go to lulu.com, click buy and then receive several hefty manuals in the post. :)
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline olsen

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2015, 09:42:57 AM »
Quote from: kamelito;798218
@Olsen

it means then that the intro is misleading "Introduction
The AmigaOS Documentation Wiki provides the latest information on how to program systems running AmigaOS 4.x."

Kamelito
Yes, it is misleading. As such it promotes the product Hyperion is selling, so the fact that the whole technology stack (Amiga operating system versions going back to 1985) upon which AmigaOS 4 sits is covered is not the first priority.

There is definitely room for improvement. For example, I would expect the developer documentation to show up more prominently. It seems that only few visitors expected the full RKM text (3rd edition "RKM Hardware" excluded) to be behind the link on the front page.
 

Offline olsen

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2015, 09:48:35 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;798220
Any chance of a new set of RKM's being published? Even a print on demand edition from somewhere like lulu,com would be nice.
I think that this ship sailed long ago :(

While I could dust off the LaTeX2e versions of the manuscript which I had worked on and crank out a PDF version of each, none of them are in their best possible shape (I would settle for "good enough", though). The illustrations are incomplete, for a start. The page breaks and the formatting are unpolished and look wonky. Readability should be better.

You do remember that the 3rd edition RKMs are each the size of a small or medium phone book? Nobody publishes software development documentation like that any more.
 

Offline Niding

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Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2015, 09:48:50 AM »
@Kolla

Whats wrong with preaching to the choir? There are still many 68xxx users around that still havent taken the leap to PPC. If anything, it would be easier to entice a still active Amiga user, than to pull in people that have already left the "scene".

I can tell you right now, if there was a decentish AOS4 hardware alternative in the 3-400 euro range I would jump on it immediately. And Im even aware of the OS's shortcomings ;)
For now tho, Im sticking to 68030, but I still cheer AeonKit on, and pick up classic hardware/software from time to time.

As for being "delusional" for thinking there is a Amiga market; that depends on your refrence point. Noone belives AOS or Amiga in general will become mainstream again.
But that doesnt prevent vendors/developers to create a hobbymarket that can sustain several entities. Amigakit is a fulltime vendor with employees, and it looks to me they are trying to secure a future to stay a fulltime Amiga company. Great for them (and us).
Additionally Ive used vendors like Amigastore.eu, Vesalia and Induvidual Computers.
I see the Amiga "market" healthy as long as its able to maintain a customer count that can sustain all these vendors (and others).
New/updated software in addition to hardware (NG and classic) coupled with more streamlined storefronts are one of the steps.

As for ciVic's comment about the email adress to get in contact with A-Eon;

I agree, it seems like they need to work on their email procedure.
Personally I work in a small company, with my boss doing xx things every day. I got a feeling reading emails often drops rather far down on the list of things to do.
Last time I checked he had over 400 unread emails(!!). Personally Id say a company needs to ensure, that when they leave the office, every single mail has been read, but yeah.
I would not be suprised AeonKit got the same issue. If its only Trevor and Matthew reading those mails, Its no wonder emails go unread.
The last few weeks they have been traveling to xx Amiga meetings.
I sent a email to that email adress myself several weeks ago regarding login to AmiStore. No reply for weeks. Eventually I got tired of waiting, so I contacted Matthew directly to his Amigakit user on Amiga.org. Got a quick reply then.
But Obviously not how it should be, even tho I understand it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 10:12:13 AM by Niding »
 

Offline Tuxedo

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Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #64 on: October 28, 2015, 09:49:09 AM »
Quote from: TrevorDick;798245
Not wanting to create even further confusion but....

The call for developers covers all Amiga flavours. The wiki referred to in the A-EON news release is the A-EON specific developer wiki not the excellent AmigaOS 4 wiki.  The A-EON wiki is for developers working our specific 68k and PowerPC applications.

TrevorD


That's REALLY nice! But why dont create an AmiStore app for ALL amiga flavours or maybe a web site opened to all if not an app(maybe measy to do?)?
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #65 on: October 28, 2015, 10:57:11 AM »
Quote from: olsen;798252
I think that this ship sailed long ago :(

While I could dust off the LaTeX2e versions of the manuscript which I had worked on and crank out a PDF version of each, none of them are in their best possible shape (I would settle for "good enough", though). The illustrations are incomplete, for a start. The page breaks and the formatting are unpolished and look wonky. Readability should be better.

You do remember that the 3rd edition RKMs are each the size of a small or medium phone book?

Yep. ;)


Quote
Nobody publishes software development documentation like that any more.

Sadly.
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Offline ssolie

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Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #66 on: October 28, 2015, 03:55:57 PM »
Quote from: olsen;798252
You do remember that the 3rd edition RKMs are each the size of a small or medium phone book? Nobody publishes software development documentation like that any more.

It is entirely possible for us to publish paper versions again and collect them up into volumes like Eldee has done. It just isn't worth our time and effort and the profit margin would be zero because everybody can just print them from the wiki anyway. :)

Besides, as soon as you print that documentation it is obsolete. The wiki is being edited all the time to correct things and add new material.
ExecSG Team Lead
 

Offline Alloye

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Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #67 on: October 28, 2015, 04:12:17 PM »
Quote from: gregthecanuck;798244
Hats off to you sir!


Thanks!

Quote from: ciVic;798247
I also like the idea, however, you are welcome to write an email to the presented address but you will never get an answer. I tried it two times now, the first try was 3 weeks ago.


Perhaps we don't know the secret handshake. :lol:
 

Offline kolla

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2015, 06:11:50 PM »
Quote from: Niding;798253

Whats wrong with preaching to the choir?


This is a so called "reach out to developers" - most developers do not go so much to Amiga shows, but they do go to developer meetings, they do go to conventions etc. If A-EON are serious about getting more developers, they should look outside the ever shrinking community.

Quote

There are still many 68xxx users around that still havent taken the leap to PPC. If anything, it would be easier to entice a still active Amiga user, than to pull in people that have already left the "scene".


You think 68k users are living under rocks and somehow have not heard about the the PowerPC thing? No, that is not the case. I have many PowerPC and many 68k systems (and a whole lot more), and what I use most is 68k, hands down, simply because I can easily run it _everywhere_. Second most used is AROS, for very much the same reason. Then comes MorphOS on mac minis, and very last comes OS4.

Quote

I can tell you right now, if there was a decentish AOS4 hardware alternative in the 3-400 euro range I would jump on it immediately. And Im even aware of the OS's shortcomings ;)


You could have had that years ago, if they could just "allow" OS4 to run on old Macs, and the OS could have advanced so much if they would open it up more.

Quote
For now tho, Im sticking to 68030, but I still cheer AeonKit on, and pick up classic hardware/software from time to time.


As do I, though the software has to be very cheap and essential for me to buy it. I only put "big money" into buying out source code and supporting development of open source software (for example I contributed I belive 150 euros for DOpus Magellan). Let us take PPaint as an example, it costs perhaps 20 euros, which is not much. But it is locked down, we can not make changes to it, we can not have a go porting it to AROS (or MorphOS for that matter). Instead we are at the mercy of BroadBlues, who like the rest of us, I am sure is also busy with "real life". I would pay a heck lot more than 20 euros for having the freedom to access the sources, do ports and submit patches etc - and most importantly, not be restricted by some nonsense NDA that mean I would have to look over my shoulders for the rest of my life.

Quote
As for being "delusional" for thinking there is a Amiga market; that depends on your refrence point. Noone belives AOS or Amiga in general will become mainstream again.


Matthey gives the impression sometimes that he actually believes that - he has previously stated that if only we have a m68k based cheap Strawberry Pi, tens if not hundreds of thousands of people would buy it to run AmigaOS. And he keeps referring to Apple, Microsoft, Linux etc as "the competition" - I don't know what to say about that other than "delusional" and over time it is very... tedious.

Quote

But that doesnt prevent vendors/developers to create a hobbymarket that can sustain several entities. Amigakit is a fulltime vendor with employees, and it looks to me they are trying to secure a future to stay a fulltime Amiga company. Great for them (and us).

Additionally Ive used vendors like Amigastore.eu, Vesalia and Induvidual Computers.
I see the Amiga "market" healthy as long as its able to maintain a customer count that can sustain all these vendors (and others).
New/updated software in addition to hardware (NG and classic) coupled with more streamlined storefronts are one of the steps.


By all means, I share this view and I buy from these stores too. And from private hardware developers, various projects (music and videos) and now latest, the A1200 kickstarter (4 cases iirc).  You have no idea how much stuff I had accumulated up through the years until last year when I pretty much gave away most of it to a buddy who is more skilled with soldering irons etc than I am anyways :)

I just find it very wrong that OS and software development of hobby operating system takes place in secrecy. I find it straight out crazy that skilled individuals like Olsen find it too risky for AROS to let people like himself contribute. Imagine, AROS contaminated with some lines of code from OS3 or OS4 - oh the horror, clearly someone must be sued for the revenue lost (never mind that OS4 itself heavily relies on open source software itself.) I find it hilarious (and mind boggling) with these outbreaks we have every now and then with OS4 and MorphOS camps charging each other for stealing code or whatever. The hostility and constant "law mongering" is sickening and totally pointless. When someone "steals" my work, I wish them good luck, I don't scream about copyrights :laughing:
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Offline matthey

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Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2015, 06:55:34 PM »
Quote from: kolla;798233
It is not a matter of competition, it is a matter of being attractive.

Please... stop pretending that Amiga is a "market" and that Apple and Microsoft etc are "competition", it only makes you look delusional.

The Amiga (A-EON and Hyperion) is a niche market competitor of Apple and Microsoft. They all produce computer hardware and develop operating systems. They can all gain or lose market share to the other competitors. Attractiveness changes supply and demand of products sold which affects market share. Delusional would be to ignore an unprofitable and unsustainable business model for the Amiga.

Quote from: TrevorDick;798245
The call for developers covers all Amiga flavours. The wiki referred to in the A-EON news release is the A-EON specific developer wiki not the excellent AmigaOS 4 wiki.  The A-EON wiki is for developers working our specific 68k and PowerPC applications.

The news release was fine as brief is better. The web page it refers to at http://www.amigadeveloper.com/ was rather useless after reading the news release. Maybe a web developer is one of the openings though ;).
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 09:17:38 PM by eliyahu »
 

Offline kamelito

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2015, 07:15:32 PM »
Quote from: olsen;798251
Yes, it is misleading. As such it promotes the product Hyperion is selling, so the fact that the whole technology stack (Amiga operating system versions going back to 1985) upon which AmigaOS 4 sits is covered is not the first priority.

There is definitely room for improvement. For example, I would expect the developer documentation to show up more prominently. It seems that only few visitors expected the full RKM text (3rd edition "RKM Hardware" excluded) to be behind the link on the front page.


Not only that but the examples are updated to 4.x while the former examples are not available anymore...
Kamelito
 

Offline eliyahu

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Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2015, 09:26:02 PM »
@thread

there was plenty of good discussion here on 68k future HW development and the like, but it wasn't on-topic. so i've created a new thread for all of that here. please keep discussion in this thread limited to the thread topic, namely A-EON's offer to assist commercial developers of amiga software. thanks.

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Offline broadblues

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2015, 09:31:45 PM »
Quote from: kamelito;798300
Not only that but the examples are updated to 4.x while the former examples are not available anymore...
Kamelito


It's a wiki so whilst the articles may be updated to show 'modern practice' the older versions are still there in th history.
 

Offline broadblues

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2015, 09:37:44 PM »
Quote
Let us take PPaint as an example, it costs perhaps 20 euros, which is not much. But it is locked down, we can not make changes to it, we can not have a go porting it to AROS (or MorphOS for that matter). Instead we are at the mercy of BroadBlues, who like the rest of us, I am sure is also busy with "real life".

A-Eon has the src not me. If you want to code on it apply for a job. The NDA just protects their copyright. It is after all not open src but commercialo software.

I'm busy coding on other A-Eon projects as well as "real life" but I'm sure more work on ppiant will follow.
 

Offline kamelito

Re: Call for Amiga Developers from A-EON Technology
« Reply #74 from previous page: October 28, 2015, 10:18:05 PM »
Quote from: broadblues;798324
It's a wiki so whilst the articles may be updated to show 'modern practice' the older versions are still there in th history.


Not practical at all in my opinion, and how do you know which historic version equal latest finished Classic version vs broken or incomplete one?
It'll be a lot easier if you could choose Classic or NG and then browse from here.

Kamelito