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Offline GaidhealTopic starter

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #29 from previous page: July 09, 2003, 05:25:46 PM »
@mdwh2

Actually, you claimed I had proposed nothing which UAE does not already do.  I pointed out a couple of things that in fact show this is not so.  One is arguablt trivial (though not to less technical users) and the other less so (truly cycle exact hardware emulation).  To point out that my emulator does not exist is rather superfluous when we are discussing features that are to be present, as well.  And your fixation on it as a rival to UAE is a bit hard for me to grasp, since they are coming from totally different angles.  Especially with what I am going to say below..

@Hammer

Yes, 2003 Server will retain all the same API calls, so MS lead me to believe.  Thus applications written for 2000 or XP should run with no modification on it.  It is also going to include (out of the box) version 1.1 at least of the infamous .Net so if I chose to write for .Net instead of the native (to previous Windows versions at least) API that would also work.  I won't be at this though.  Yes, I have heard of Winfellow but not used it.  As regards "hush pattern" support, I am taking it under advisement :¬)

@mesagl

Because it will be OO, it will almost by definition be an SDK of sorts.  This is because each of my "Virtual Custom Chip" objects is going to need to present an interface to other objects wishing to address it.  It's likely that only very specific objects will actually be allowed to do so, but the "look" from the point of view of a programmer will be of an extension to the well known API paradigm.  As for separate branches, not necessarily.. at least not that separate, but as you say, identical interface, except where a one is a superset.  Differing implementation as needed, at the core level.

Now.. the (?) exciting bit..  I have decided that a major, possibly THE major thrust of the project is going to be total integration with AROS.  That is to say I shall be joining other developers on the AROS project, specifically to implement "Seamless Legacy Amiga Emulation" in AROS.  Matt emailed me and expressed an entirely similar vision of how this ought to behave:

"OS legal" emulation will happen within windows which are treated exactly like any other in AROS, i.e. same colour borders, etc, etc.  "OS legal" means that the application only makes legitimate calls to AOS, no attempts at directly talking to the hardware (incidentally, though I am sure most are aware of this, it is that which makes most games 'broken' on simple emulators and ports of AOS).

"Hardware Emulation mode" will be fullscreen, require high thread priority and a lot more resources, but given the power of the likely platforms, the efficiency of AROS and the relatively undemanding nature (by comparison with today's software) of most programmes that will need it, performance should not be an issue at all.  It just might not "play nice" if you want to run other tasks.  In as much as, you may get the standard Windows approach of "Close all other applications, etc, etc"

I have received several requests for PPC emulation and this is also under advisement.

John
[color=3300FF]Gaidheal[/color][/b][color=0066CC] - \\"The Emulator Guy\\"[/color][/i]
 

Offline Belial6

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2003, 08:24:07 PM »
I think another Amiga emulator is a great idea.  With that said, I'd like to make a suggestion that I think every emulator should have....

The ability to change disks without stopping or leaving the emulation.   This could be handled in a number of ways.  It could be the way save states are loaded in many console emulators. Which is a control key + an F key.  Or, you could have an external device change the disk for you.  The simplest would be having a joystick assigned to the virtual drive, allowing disks to be switched that way.

An ultra cool system would be to do an Action Replay in reverse...allow some kind of pattern in a memory location to be monitored, so that when the software requests the disk, it would be automatically inserted.  Obviously, the disk by disk identification would have to be done by end users, but it would be cool to do away with disk swapping.
 

Offline GaidhealTopic starter

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2003, 08:45:03 PM »
iIn WinUAE that is certainly possible, I'd imagine so in others too.. admittedly the emulation pauses while the "open diskfile" window is up, but essentially, you simply press END+F1 to F4 (df0 - df3).

In AROS (once I/we have written the emulation), ultimately it should simply be a case of mounting an ADF image or inserting a diskette with the binaries on, in a format readable on the platform hardware.

John
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Offline mdwh2

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2003, 08:55:31 PM »
Quote

Gaidheal wrote:
@mdwh2
Actually, you claimed I had proposed nothing which UAE does not already do.  I pointed out a couple of things that in fact show this is not so.
I never said this. Others did - when you replied with these two features, I talked about various ways of achieving one of those with WinUAE (either features that already exist, or by writing a simple wrapper application). I make no comment as to the other feature, so as far as I can see this will be something that WinUAE doesn't do.

Quote

To point out that my emulator does not exist is rather superfluous when we are discussing features that are to be present, as well.
Well, yes, I only said this in response to you saying WinUAE doesn't do this now - when it came to the "wrapper application", I was also talking about things that could be done.

I'd be pleased to see transparent emulation in AROS. In the past from what I remember, it had been said that they had no intention of doing any sort of emulation, but I think it would be a useful thing if it could be done.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2003, 09:00:55 PM »
Quote
I'd be pleased to see transparent emulation in AROS. In the past from what I remember, it had been said that they had no intention of doing any sort of emulation, but I think it would be a useful thing if it could be done.


The real problem was that no one had the motivation to do it, it could be tricky and will require quite a bit of work.

If John wants to give it a go, that's excellent!!! He will get the full support of the AROS team including testing and bug fixes.  :-)


Offline GaidhealTopic starter

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2003, 09:08:22 PM »
Right on Matt :¬)

Yes folks, on the dev-list now for AROS, expect reasonably regular updates on any progress.  Remember, as it stands it's just me and I cannot possibly go "full time" on this.  NT5 fans, don't fret, that aspect will not in any way suffer as a result of this new goal.  The same routines that will (hopefully!) form the basis for AROS's emulation will also form the basis of the free NT5 Amiga emulator I planned  :¬)

PPC... still thinking about it.. here is the situation, as I understand it;  AROS lacks PPC support because despite high demand, noone is coming forward to develop AROS for PPC.  Equally, I have never targetted PPC myself and will therefore not be doing so in a hurry for a free emulator.  Now.. I have received messages about it, which indicates DEMAND... so if you are out there as a PPC developer and want to help me out with that aspect, it might well happen.  Failing that, it will only happen, probably, as an "upgrade" of sorts to an otherwise working emulator.

John
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2003, 09:16:32 PM »
Quote

Gaidheal wrote:
Right on Matt :¬)

Yes folks, on the dev-list now for AROS, expect reasonably regular updates on any progress.  Remember, as it stands it's just me and I cannot possibly go "full time" on this.  NT5 fans, don't fret, that aspect will not in any way suffer as a result of this new goal.  The same routines that will (hopefully!) form the basis for AROS's emulation will also form the basis of the free NT5 Amiga emulator I planned  :¬)

PPC... still thinking about it.. here is the situation, as I understand it;  AROS lacks PPC support because despite high demand, noone is coming forward to develop AROS for PPC.  Equally, I have never targetted PPC myself and will therefore not be doing so in a hurry for a free emulator.  Now.. I have received messages about it, which indicates DEMAND... so if you are out there as a PPC developer and want to help me out with that aspect, it might well happen.  Failing that, it will only happen, probably, as an "upgrade" of sorts to an otherwise working emulator.

John


Michal Shultz has now got AROS to Boot on the PPC, but it will be a while before it's ready for public consumption... One would hopr that your Emulator in C would run on the PPC too :-)

Offline alx

Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2003, 09:29:25 PM »
Quote
The ability to change disks without stopping or leaving the emulation.


I think that UAE already does this - there are two control programs (1 is console based, 1 has a GUI) that you install on the "Amiga" to swap disks.

Offline GaidhealTopic starter

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2003, 09:32:14 PM »
Heh!  If PPC is running AROS I guarant... wait.. I reckon so :¬)

The requests I am getting are for me to EMULATE A PPC machine... (unless I have totally misunderstood them.. which is possible :¬) )

John
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Offline mesagl

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Re: Amiga emulator development
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2003, 04:11:04 AM »
Thats right john . We want X86 To emulate PPC. I have no idea about PPC instruction sets , registers blah blah blah but it would be so damn cool if that could be achieved.