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Author Topic: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?  (Read 16181 times)

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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« on: June 29, 2013, 05:48:23 AM »
Is Linux a substitute for Amiga OS? Due to the fact that AROS might be awhile before it (a) runs heaps of programs. (b) Is compatible with everyones hardware.
I've only used Linux on x86 so I can't give an opnion on the 68k or PPC version.
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Offline smerf

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2013, 06:40:26 AM »
Hi,

Although Linux and Amiga OS are designed basically off the same family, Unix. Linux was designed by a bunch of geeks that speak an entirely new, difficult language, with long numbered version numbers that actually make no sense. I have been using Linux for close to 20 years now, and some of the stuff that they do, I ask why, there actually seems to be no pattern to Linux, but when you get deep down into it, there is. It is just learning the hundreds of patterns to figure out what they are doing. The only operating system that is worse is Windows. Not only don't you know what is supposed to be in the windows os, but where they put the stuff. I doubt that even Microsoft knows what files go where in their system, that is why I believe they have so much trouble with hackers and virus's.

Can Linux be a substitute for the Amiga OS, I would say yes, if we could reprogram the hundred step file and hide process.

Would it be worth it?

Not really, because the Amiga users today have no direction, and a lot of them would still be wanting PPC orientated cpu's.

I myself think that AMD's eight core CPU's are the greatest, and if used correctly would become one bang up multi tasking machine.

Intels eight core CPU's are faster, but the money is huge, not really fit for the average home user.

I just want an answer to this question:

Does the PPC Cpu come with a hand crank to get it started and instead of kickstart would you call it crank start?

smerf
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2013, 07:28:39 AM »
The question of Linux's overall quality aside, it's not a "substitute" for the Amiga because they're basically nothing alike. (And smerf's notion that the Amiga OS was based on Unix is a myth.) They don't operate in a similar way, Linux doesn't run Amiga software, etcetera.

There is some similarity of philosophy in that both are designed to be hackable, which is why classic Amiga OS has remained as usable as it has this far past its last update; however, Linux does this in typical Unix fashion, by being constructed piecemeal out of discrete components that communicate through scripts and pipes, while Amiga hacks integrate much more tightly with the system as a whole. But Linux is definitely nothing like a "substitute."
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
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Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2013, 07:31:32 AM »
I've also been using 'Linux' for close to 20 years.  I put it in quotes, since Linux is just the kernel, and it's the multitude of userland utilities that you actually use.

The file hierarchy system, I'm guessing is what you're referring to?  Actually I'm not even sure what your comments were talking about.  When I started, the first thing I learned was the file hierarchy system.  Once you've learned that it's EASY.  Besides, it is very Unix, as is the AmigaOS.  Actually a lot of the 'inadequacies' that people talk about with even the newest Linux distribution is "why do I have to do that with the terminal?"  Because it's just the most efficient way to do some things.  Even in AmigaOS, there are tons of command line software.  It's useful, to say the least.

Anyhow, to answer the actual original post, you can get an Amiga Look & Feel.  It can get pretty close, but just not quite spot on.  There are themes for GTK (Gnome based) as well as Qt (KDE based), but most of that hasn't been updated in a while, so newer distributions will use the newer versions of gnome/kde that haven't had the themes upgraded for them.

There is a window manager called amiwm that makes the window borders look like the Amiga.  And someone has 'ported' Ken's Icons (the ones from AmigaOS4) for the Linux desktop environments.

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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2013, 07:38:29 AM »
amiwm is a fun novelty, but it doesn't come close to actually making Linux software behave like Amiga software. It is exactly and only what it intends to be: a way to throw a cute Amiga coat of paint over the windows.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2013, 01:27:25 PM »
No, not even remotely similar.  Which is a good thing.
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Offline polyp2000

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2013, 01:52:27 PM »
Just want to chip in and say.

As an amiga user , begrudgingly switching to windows back in the 90's.
Upon discovering discovering linux it was like a breath of fresh air. In particular I found bash / scripting to be reminiscent of the Amiga.

The abundance of open source software also reminded me very much of the PD scene i was used to on the Amiga.

While today Linux has continued to be developed and is very different in many ways I cannot deny that my first experiments with Linux circa ~2001
made me think , gosh this reminds me of the Amiga.

Today things are a different kettle of fish though - but Linux is still my OS preference for work and multimedia duties. (No dedicated windows machines in my house - although I do have an Intel Mac Mini 2013 I use as a testing machine and also as a PLEX server)

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Offline AmigaBruno

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2013, 01:54:33 PM »
No, Linux doesn't have an Amiga feel, I think it's too much like Windoze.

AFAIK, I first heard of Linux while reading Amiga Format magazine. After Amiga Format closed down, its Editor Nick Veitch became Editor of Linux Format.

I was persuaded to buy a PC to get Internet access at home, because of the prices of upgrades to my Amiga A1200 system and various stories about the Amiga dying, not much support, as well as someone saying "You don't know about computers, only the Amiga".

Before buying a PC I decided to install Linux on it as a dual boot system. The results with various distros weren't much like the Amiga. They looked and felt too much like Windoze. I installed amiwm, but it seemed to be just a joke hack showing a blank Workbench screen with a bar you could use to pull the screen down. It didn't do anything else!

The directory and file hierarchy of Linux is quite like the Amiga, as well as various libraries and concepts such as Exec, pipes, and some shells which are available. I think that Linux was originally based on Minix for the Amiga and Atari ST.

Nowadays, there's a system called Aeros, which is AROS hosted on Linux. This seems to be Linux with an Amiga feel, which can run Amiga, AROS, and Linux software, so it seems to be just what I wanted years ago. I'm looking forward to installing it, but I haven't managed this so far.
 

Offline EDanaII

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2013, 02:43:17 PM »
Now, le'see... if you lose case-sensitivity and text-based displays, rewrite the DOS so that it's "Englishy." Add volumes, assigns, datatypes. Replace the swap partition with a ram disk. Put it all together in an easy to understand way... yea, then maybe Linux might feel like AmigaOS... maybe...
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2013, 04:32:14 PM »
Yeah, I'm seriously not getting this notion that AmigaDOS looks anything like Unix...I mean, there's no global directory tree, everything is on separate volumes like DOS or DEC operating systems, it uses assigns like VMS (or like DOS barely had) instead of custom mount points, non-stream devices aren't represented even as pipes, let alone being found anywhere in the filesystem hierarchy, commands are full or less-abbreviated words, etcetera etcetera...about the only point of reference I can find is that the system volume has some root-level divisions-by-type with folders like /s and /c that loosely resemble Unix's traditional /etc and /bin directories...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

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Offline Mrs Beanbag

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2013, 05:30:06 PM »
Well this is a difficult question to answer, since there are so many different "flavours" of Linux, each with a different look and feel (and which can change quite a lot from one version to the next). Sadly I think Ubuntu and its kin have been aiming to copy Windows far too much, but there's no reason the GUI side of things couldn't be made a lot more Amiga-like. There is a lot of scope for getting quite close since it's very flexible, if anyone seriously wanted to put the time into doing it.

I personally use Kubuntu and put my task bar and start menu at the top of the screen instead of the bottom, which makes me feel a little more at home.
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Offline nicholas

Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 06:01:02 PM »
Oh if we are talking about the GUI then I use Ken's Icons on my Linux machines. Well, the ones that have a GUI installed on them that is.
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Offline EDanaII

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2013, 06:23:25 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;739213
Yeah, I'm seriously not getting this notion that AmigaDOS looks anything like Unix...I mean, there's no global directory tree, everything is on separate volumes like DOS or DEC operating systems, it uses assigns like VMS (or like DOS barely had) instead of custom mount points, non-stream devices aren't represented even as pipes, let alone being found anywhere in the filesystem hierarchy, commands are full or less-abbreviated words, etcetera etcetera...about the only point of reference I can find is that the system volume has some root-level divisions-by-type with folders like /s and /c that loosely resemble Unix's traditional /etc and /bin directories...

Well, I'm gonna disagree with you slightly, John. Is Amiga directly derived from Unix as Linux is? No. But TripOS, AmigaOS' predecessor, was designed in '76, and the best example of OS design at that time was Unix.

But that's what I like about AmigaOS, instead of, as Linux did, copying Unix directly, TripOS took the major concepts of that day and improved on them. Instead of anally sticking to what was, they took a step forward and improved it all.

Of course, that to me is what makes Amiga "Amiga." They didn't give us what they could, they improved on it all and gave us quite a bit more.

Of course, sadly, this is also what destroyed the Amiga in the end... :(

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Offline Speelgoedmannetje

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2013, 06:23:53 PM »
Quote from: EDanaII;739205
Now, le'see... if you lose case-sensitivity and text-based displays, rewrite the DOS so that it's "Englishy." Add volumes, assigns, datatypes. Replace the swap partition with a ram disk. Put it all together in an easy to understand way... yea, then maybe Linux might feel like AmigaOS... maybe...

If they think of a whole new approach to gui's (think of perspectives, like work, internet+music, gaming, 'console-gaming', with each their configurations), standardized ways how programs communicate with each other, and program configurations should be standardized (with for instance xml/xsd). There is a lot to be done in OS land, pity many ict folks are conservative and only think in bouncy animated windows and cr*p like that.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2013, 06:34:30 PM »
Quote from: EDanaII;739219
Well, I'm gonna disagree with you slightly, John. Is Amiga directly derived from Unix as Linux is? No. But TripOS, AmigaOS' predecessor, was designed in '76, and the best example of OS design at that time was Unix.
That's a fair point - then again, what I've seen of TriPOS looks a lot more like a seriously expanded RT-11 than Unix.

Quote
But that's what I like about AmigaOS, instead of, as Linux did, copying Unix directly, TripOS took the major concepts of that day and improved on them. Instead of anally sticking to what was, they took a step forward and improved it all.

Of course, that to me is what makes Amiga "Amiga." They didn't give us  what they could, they improved on it all and gave us quite a bit more.
Right on.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup