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Offline FrankoTopic starter

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2011, 06:01:47 PM »
@ Cool_amigaN

Couldn't agree more with you in what you said in your post and as I think I've given enough details and reasons for me doing this, then I'll leave it up to the admins & mods here to decide if the link in my signature to CommodoreScotland.com should be removed when I make this stuff available... :)

Just don't understand why Amiga sites seem to have more than their fare share of these copyright mafia numpties who quite apart from the fact they don't own the stuff they have even less of clue about copyright and don't realise that the rest of us don't give a toss what they have to say... :)
 

Offline pwermonger

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2011, 06:38:32 PM »
My guess is, they will remove it because they should.

You are basically doing an end-around of Cloanto who have done what they should and gotten rights to distribute (and likely had to pay for those rights).

If you intend to distribute it is your duty to get permission from the rights holder(s). if you can't, then you cant distribute legally. End of story. The statement 'I did all I could to try to get it and no one responded or gave it to me' doesn't give you rights by omission. Lack of rights = lack of rights no matter how hard you tried and wether you received a negative response or no response at all.

In short, when seeking rights to distribute, the lack of a response does not equate to an affirmative response.
 

Offline FrankoTopic starter

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2011, 06:48:58 PM »
Quote from: pwermonger;635155
My guess is, they will remove it because they should.

You are basically doing an end-around of Cloanto who have done what they should and gotten rights to distribute (and likely had to pay for those rights).

If you intend to distribute it is your duty to get permission from the rights holder(s). if you can't, then you cant distribute legally. End of story. The statement 'I did all I could to try to get it and no one responded or gave it to me' doesn't give you rights by omission. Lack of rights = lack of rights no matter how hard you tried and wether you received a negative response or no response at all.

In short, when seeking rights to distribute, the lack of a response does not equate to an affirmative response.


I'll stick with the advice that I've been given over the past two months as I trust these people and It doesn't just come down to a single sentence saying that "I have done all the is reasonable", that is just for this thread to give a basic idea of what I am doing... ;)

I'm pretty sure Cloanto had pay for these distribution rights and I'm more than happy to do so also but it's kinda impossible to pay someone when they don't respond to you or make themselves know in the first place... :)

Perhaps once they are up on the site the copyright owners may finally make themselves known and things can be taken from there... :)

So I'll just say thank you for your "opinion" but I'll stick to the advice I have received from others... :)
 

Offline Fats

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2011, 06:50:58 PM »
Quote from: Franko;635104

3) To let the copyright mafia that lurk about this site know that if you have any complaints about me doing this then please do not complain to the moderators or site owners here but feel free to inform or take it up with whom you believe to be the current copyright holders of the Amiga Workbench Disk Sets... :)


I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.

greets,
Staf.
Trust me...                                              I know what I\'m doing
 

Offline GobanToba

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2011, 06:57:23 PM »
Quote from: pwermonger;635155
My guess is, they will remove it because they should.

You are basically doing an end-around of Cloanto who have done what they should and gotten rights to distribute (and likely had to pay for those rights).

If you intend to distribute it is your duty to get permission from the rights holder(s). if you can't, then you cant distribute legally. End of story. The statement 'I did all I could to try to get it and no one responded or gave it to me' doesn't give you rights by omission. Lack of rights = lack of rights no matter how hard you tried and wether you received a negative response or no response at all.

In short, when seeking rights to distribute, the lack of a response does not equate to an affirmative response.


No one is doing an end around Cloanto.  Cloanto is not the only ones with a right to distribute Amiga OS.  Is Hyperion doing an end around Cloanto too then?  They are distributing AmigaOS.  An updated version at that!  Are they trying to screw Cloanto?

Petro gave permission for Workbench 3.0 long ago to be distributed free.  So he can at least put that up legally.  

http://de-de.facebook.com/people/Petro-T-Tyschtschenko/1365691299
 

Offline GobanToba

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2011, 06:59:04 PM »
Quote from: Fats;635157
I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.

greets,
Staf.



Hopefully you'll have some proof instead of basely accusations and assumptions I assume when you report him?  I thought not.
 

Offline FrankoTopic starter

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2011, 06:59:21 PM »
Quote from: Fats;635157
I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.

greets,
Staf.


Report me to whom... and why... :confused:

For one thing it is nothing to do with you and for another how do you know that by the time they appear in my site that I will not have the appropriate licence or rights to do so... ;)

So go ahead and report me to whomever you care too, at the end of the day it's none of your business and your time would be better spent elsewhere actually doing something useful for the Amiga community... :)
 

Offline Fraggle1

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2011, 07:54:22 PM »
If memory serves, the copyright mafia started when the Amiga was still a popular home computer, citing "Piracy is killing the Amiga" as their cause, & while I believe that those still developing for the Amiga deserve our support I can't see how distributing 1.x - 3.1 constitutes piracy today. Who could claim to be losing revenue ?
All the same, I know it's not as simple as that because copyright law would still have been technically broken.

The problem here (as I see it) is that the period of time that copyright is granted for has been outstripped by the advance of technology & the "Digital Age", which has rendered obsolete a timeframe that seemed reasonable in 1709.
Today, Technology is obsolete often before it becomes mainstream, so it has a short lifespan & then the world moves on. It's time, I think, for the copyright mafia to get real & stop trying to tell us that we're taking bread from the mouths of Amiga developer's starving children.
I say Go For It, Franko.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2011, 07:57:25 PM »
Quote from: Fats;635157
I don't mind being called copyright maffia; I will report you if you put material on your site you don't have permission to distribute.

greets,
Staf.


Would you report someone who was hosting the same files in a country where it is legal to do so?

If yes, who would you report them to and what exactly would you be reporting?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2011, 08:12:41 PM »
Hosting 3.0 is probably legal. 3.1 presents some problems because of the poor way that transfer of IP ownership was carried out.
But a real test of the 3.1 copyright would be hosting the 3.1 source files.
These used to be in the hands of a few people, but I'm not sure who would have them now.
Mind you, I don't think anyone that wants to design an Amigoid OS would download or examine these files (it would contaminate their own project), but it would nudge AInc. and Hyperion into action.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline pwermonger

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2011, 08:28:51 PM »
Quote from: Fraggle1;635171
If memory serves, the copyright mafia started when the Amiga was still a popular home computer, citing "Piracy is killing the Amiga" as their cause, & while I believe that those still developing for the Amiga deserve our support I can't see how distributing 1.x - 3.1 constitutes piracy today. Who could claim to be losing revenue ?
All the same, I know it's not as simple as that because copyright law would still have been technically broken.

The problem here (as I see it) is that the period of time that copyright is granted for has been outstripped by the advance of technology & the "Digital Age", which has rendered obsolete a timeframe that seemed reasonable in 1709.
Today, Technology is obsolete often before it becomes mainstream, so it has a short lifespan & then the world moves on. It's time, I think, for the copyright mafia to get real & stop trying to tell us that we're taking bread from the mouths of Amiga developer's starving children.
I say Go For It, Franko.

Actually, originally copyright was somewhere around 14 - 18 years range. It was the idea that what you copyrighted was like a child you had given birth to and you had the oversight over a child up until such time as by law they became considered an 'adult' so copyright followed this principle and the same amount of time. The issue became that companies like Disney wanted to make money and hold off people copying their works longer. Since big corporations have big interests and big money, they were able to get the government(s) to steadily increase the duration of Copyright. I may not agree with the long duration someone can hold on to and try to squeeze money out of a work (often the person continuing to do so had nothing to do with the people who did who are in the ground already) but laws are laws. I can tell you I don't agree with the overly long duration of copyright that at some point ceases to protect the work and only stiffles creativity by preventing open use of it in other works (listen to how many songs way back used the same music but each had different lyrics to see what I mean). Not agreeing is not carte blanche to disregard them.

Would I get mad at this person for putting up old Workbench disks? No.
Would I be surprised if Amiga.org removed his links as links to a site with pirated software if he did put them up without rights? No.

@GobanToba I only mentioned Cloanto since they are someone I know has rights to distribute Amiga OS and don't certainly know everyone who ever has or will in perpetuity and in any time or all time has or had or will have those rights.

So yes, I should have said 'and end-around companies like Cloanto who have obtained those rights legally and likely paid for them'. Hyperion would not be in the same class doing an end-around Cloanto who obtained the rights if they also obtained the rights legally. Thank you for allowing me the time to correct that. Yay for the minutia gestapo!

Lastly if Petro gave rights to distribute 3.0, then assuming he had and still has that right fine. That doesn't give rights somehow automatically to 1.x-2.1 and 3.1 if only for 3.0 (cant check that site from here to see exactly what it says).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 08:33:56 PM by pwermonger »
 

Offline jorkany

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2011, 08:31:57 PM »
Quote from: Franko;635128
Hyperion have never responded to any of my requests so you're in for a bit of a let down there... ;)

Same here, I've never received any sort of response out of Hyperion or anyone at Hyperion. And no, I'm not always sending email as "jorkany@lolhyperionsucks.com", I've contacted them using my primary, real email account as well as several throwaways.
 

Offline FrankoTopic starter

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2011, 08:52:43 PM »
@ jorkany

I only ever use my real email address to contact companies and provide them with enough personal details about myself in order to make it clear that it is not a joke or spam they are receiving, but after two months and not one response then I'm assuming that they either don't have the rights or just don't care about anyone distributing them... :)

So it looks like in just few days time the Workbench Disks Sets will be up on the homepage of my site for free download... :)

As even the copyright mafia who like to complain and whine and tell me that they are going to report me to someone (not got a clue who that someone might be) yet they can't even tell me who could sell or issue me with the appropriate distribution licence or rights... bit strange that methinks and just further proves to me that these folk are nothing but idiots who would rather keep the Amiga as a laughing stock in the computer world rather than helping the community out in any small way they can... :)

At the end of the day for those of us who still live in the real world where common sense still prevails then at least for anyone needing them they will know where to find them easily. Until I receive word from someone who requires me to remove them and who can provide me with proof that they are indeed the legitimate owners then there they shall remain for the Amiga community to access freely... :)
 

Offline Lando

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2011, 09:01:15 PM »
You should put 3.9 up.  Nobody is going to have the cheek to complain considering it was released containing unlicensed software itself.
 

Offline Fraggle1

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2011, 09:08:04 PM »
An interesting post, pwermonger. Thanks for the info.

So it appears that copyright law started as a highly reasonable construct, but was corrupted by big business who saw it as a licence to print money.
It rather raises the question of what happens when the businesses involved lose interest in the money they've printed ?
Seems to me that rather than give it away to the needy, they'll hoard it until it's no longer legal tender. Stupid, or what ? lol. ;-)
 

Offline Boudicca

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Re: Distribution Licence For Workbench...
« Reply #44 from previous page: May 03, 2011, 09:16:08 PM »
Oh FFS.....

Do we really have to bang our Amiga heads against the wall of stupidity every time we raise this totally anal subject.

Something isn't illegal until the "Judgment" says it is. Someone may express a legal opinion, fair comment but pass judgment on or threats to report anyone for any given activity as being "Illegal" is utter b*llocks!. The Police won't even turn up to give it case number. No arrests, No summons, No legal threats (Unless the case can generate cash!)

There is no spoon !

But........and this where "Reasonable" attempts is entirely subjective. I would consider someone trying to contact me as reasonable in reverse would be, "In writing" and if it was a legal matter (in this case I believe it would be), a solicitors letter/writ or legal statement of intent, marked/dated and stamped by a solicitor.

If I was wanting to "Reserve my Rights" I wouldn't just answer an email or answer the phone on such things.

My tuppence worth. !
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