Linux popularity (from "A-EON Technology: Introducing Tabor and the A1222")

[Iggy]

I would say GNU _was_ an _attempt_ at cloning a UNIX operating system under the GPL license. The native GNU kernel has always been Hurd, and not Linux. These days, all operating systems are a mix of software under a whole range of licenses, it is pretty much the same software powering all the operating systems. For example I have systems with BSD kernels and mostly GNU user land (Gentoo/FreeBSD), and you can easily have Linux systems that are totally free for GNU user land, not at all uncommon on embedded systems.

I have seen those type of systems.

[bison]

Linux users love to claim the android market.
Linux doesn't run on cell phones, a proprietary derivative of it does.
The same with the tablet market.

Android was merged in 2012.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/android-and-linux-re-merge-into-one-operating-system

I wish Linus had had the insight to base his kernel on more modern concepts than UNIX.
Linux has just become another monolithic beast.

I like the Unix architecture -- fork & exec, everything is a file, etc.  It's not perfect, but it has stood the test of time.

I am particularly fond of Dragonfly BSD, although I still use Linux-based systems more often --I got to have something for Netflix. ;-)

[kolla]

Linux users love to claim the android market.
Linux doesn't run on cell phones, a proprietary derivative of it does.
The same with the tablet market.

Does too. I have personally back ported ALSA from a newer kernel back the kernels used on my old LG o2x that was locked to certain versions of the Linux kernel + gcc - the kernel is not "a proprietary derivative" - such a thing would be breach of GPLv2. What is true is that there may be proprietary kernel modules, so when you want to make changes, you are stuck with the same kernel revision and build environment as that module. Like the case was for me, with the nVidia chipset driver that my phone required.

However, this is no different than being locked to a certain binary blob gfx driver on "regular" Linux, this was _very_ common with Gfx drivers some years ago, and also typical for quite a few network drivers on embedded devices.

Btw - the same applies for Apple (badom-tish) and iOS, only it is not Linux, but XNU (X is Not Unix), pretty much the same kernel as in OS X, also known as Darwin.

I wish Linus had had the insight to base his kernel on more modern concepts than UNIX.
Linux has just become another monolithic beast.

"has become"? It was _always_ a monolithic beast, by design! Did you _really_ miss out on the discussions between Torvalds and Tanenbaum?? Oh my!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanenbaum%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8211;Torvalds_debate

Personally, I find BSD based OSX to be far easier to work with.

But you do not really care what takes place under the bling and glamour, do you? :laughing:

[kolla]

The Linux kernel underlies a series of UNIX clone OS'.
It is not like they serve a function separately.

And taken as a whole, its still copying, at least BSD has a proper license.

This looks like pure nonsense to me

[kolla]

I have seen those type of systems.

Yes, such as any time you root an Android device.

[nicholas]

I would say GNU _was_ an _attempt_ at cloning a UNIX operating system under the GPL license. The native GNU kernel has always been Hurd, and not Linux. These days, all operating systems are a mix of software under a whole range of licenses, it is pretty much the same software powering all the operating systems. For example I have systems with BSD kernels and mostly GNU user land (Gentoo/FreeBSD), and you can easily have Linux systems that are totally free for GNU user land, not at all uncommon on embedded systems.

I used to run a Debian/kFreeBSD VM just fur playing around but haven't touched it for a long while. Dyson is my new plaything now.

http://osdyson.org/projects/dyson/wiki

[kolla]

Dyson is my new plaything now.

Nice. I used to run a few OpenIndiana systems just to practice with, managed to infect them with Gentoo's portage too for package maintenance - no fan of Debian (well, debhelper etc), hehe

[Iggy]

Yes, such as any time you root an Android device.

Like one phone I have, which I now wish I'd never done.
Android is still proprietary.

This looks like pure nonsense to me

Obviously you didn't grow up watching a large US company and Universities across the country invest their time, effort and money only to have their work purloined by a hack then.
Remember what you guys have already said "created because he couldn't afford'...

But then the Amiga community has a long history of expecting someone else's work at low or no cost, and making excuses for outright theft.

[Iggy]

"has become"? It was _always_ a monolithic beast, by design! Did you _really_ miss out on the discussions between Torvalds and Tanenbaum?? Oh my!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanenbaum%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8211;Torvalds_debate

:laughing:

I have always had the greatest sympathy for Dr. Tanenbaum, because his creation is not advertised as anything but a learning tool.

The issue of Micro vs Macro kernels is in no way defined by a comparison of Linux to Minix.

My first multi-tasking OS' were derived from OS' used in real time process control and mission critical applications.
Environments that Windows, OSX, and Linux are still pretty unsuited for.

Laugh away while the Linux kernel continue to grow relentlessly.

Reliability and good security are not inherent to the environments you advocate.

[kolla]

Android is still proprietary.

How?

Obviously you didn't grow up watching a large US company and Universities across the country invest their time, effort and money only to have their work purloined by a hack then.
Remember what you guys have already said "created because he couldn't afford'...

Gee, butt hurt much? Have you ever read the BSD license? So it bothers you that Linux came along with a GPLv2 license, while BSD has mostly been exploited by commercial companies? Wow! Seems like you are upset over some some "not invented here" issue. Maybe you should stop using the WWW then.

But then the Amiga community has a long history of expecting someone else's work at low or no cost, and making excuses for outright theft.

That is _exacly_ what your beloved BSD licenses are about, take the code and do whatever the heck you want with it!! Take your pill already! :laughing:

[Iggy]

I used to run a Debian/kFreeBSD VM just fur playing around but haven't touched it for a long while. Dyson is my new plaything now.

http://osdyson.org/projects/dyson/wiki

Nick, that would be another pet peeve of mine about these type of OS' - "playing around".

One OS I still have some for use today, was used by the company that introduced me to it for heart monitors.

Not the kind of application I want to have running on something that isn't virtually perfect.

[kolla]

I have always had the greatest sympathy for Dr. Tanenbaum, because his creation is not advertised as anything but a learning tool.

The entire debate started with Tanenbaum bashing Linux for being monolithic and hence a waste of time - it had nothing to do with Minix being a learning tool (and btw it is a long time since that focus changed)

Laugh away while the Linux kernel continue to grow relentlessly.

What is growing is the number of drivers and features - all of which are optional. I know from 20 years of experience with Linux on m68k systems, that the kernel today is no bigger than it used to be, rather on the contrary, I now have kernels that are smaller, faster and more capable than I had 10-15 years ago. I have been running on the very same hardware since 1995 (Blizzard 1230III).

Reliability and good security are not inherent to the environments you advocate.

I am not advocating anything, I am pointing out errors and flaws in your comments here!

[Iggy]

Gee, butt hurt much? :laughing:

Nope, I just had friends who lost a lot of money due to piracy.
It makes me a little edgy about intellectual property rights.

But I will lighten up a bit.

I'm beginning to sound like one of those soap box lecturers I remember from my childhood in the sixties.

Idealism is really just an unrealistic point of view, life involves too much compromise and cooperation to get hung up on that.

So I will let off Linus for tonight.

After all, those OS' you perpetually switch through give you all something to entertain yourselves with.

And I still default to commercial OS' for most uses, not out of preference just due to practicality.

[Iggy]

The entire debate started with Tanenbaum bashing Linux for being monolithic and hence a waste of time..

Yeah, an ivory tower extremist.
After way to many College classes, I've been exposed to a lot of them.

However, the arguments against monolithic kernels still have more than a little validity.

That does not mean that ANY approach should be belittled or dismissed.
Its the results the matter.

And I think part of my poor attitude about this, was how I saw this all closing in from the '80s on.
I feel like ALL the major OS offer limited variation/choice.

I can rotate through just about any of them, and they are all so...alike.

[eliyahu]

@thread

this is a spin-off from A-EON's announcement that the tabor board is now entering beta testing. somehow folks got distracted talking about linux, so they can continue that discussion here. thanks.

-- eliyahu

[kolla]

One OS I still have some for use today, was used by the company that introduced me to it for heart monitors.

Not the kind of application I want to have running on something that isn't virtually perfect.

Heart monitors are typically not perfect, but they are designed to make a lot of noise and be obvious when they fail. If you want to build something "perfect", you use several independent and different systems working in parallel to provide good redundancy. Exactly what operating systems and what hardware that is best suited, depends entirely on what problem you are solving. Btw, I do have some experience from working as system administrator and technical assistant at a medical research facility. Sometimes the best solution is to not have any OS at all, but let the application take over the metal entirely