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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: dougal on July 23, 2011, 09:48:17 AM
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I have a Macbook Air 2,1 (Late 2008), 2GB machine 1.6Ghz. It has OS X Leopard 10.5.11.
It has 120GB Hard drive (NOT SSD). It runs at a decent speed on Leopard.
Will OS X Lion run just as good on it or will it be slowwww?
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I've noticed no speed differences between Lion and Snow Leopard... Really, it's all the interface paradigm changes that will bug you the most. As Amiga users we have 26 years of training in the old Deaktop model... Lion gets rid of things (optionally, but by default) that probably don't rely make sense, but we have grown used to.
It's a good upgrade, and while I think there are a number of missteps... It does show the future of the desk top... This Apple does, not by innovation but by simply having the balls to do it!
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And is yours a Macbook Air 2GB 1.6?
Also mine is on Leopard not Snow.
I've noticed no speed differences between Lion and Snow Leopard... Really, it's all the interface paradigm changes that will bug you the most. As Amiga users we have 26 years of training in the old Deaktop model... Lion gets rid of things (optionally, but by default) that probably don't rely make sense, but we have grown used to.
It's a good upgrade, and while I think there are a number of missteps... It does show the future of the desk top... This Apple does, not by innovation but by simply having the balls to do it!
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Also mine is on Leopard not Snow.
Currently you can only get the Lion installer, when running Snow Leopard (App Store). Out of curiosity: what do you expect from the Lion if Snow Leo wasn´t able to win you over? Most of the features of Lion won´t change your life, but some old software will run worse (Audio software, no Rosetta, ...). I installed Lion today, after downloading it for about 20 Hours and haven´t had much time to play with it, yet. Visually I find it a little disturbing/silly, but that´s just my first impression.
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20 hours? How big is the file? :lol:
Although i haven't used it i have read about it. So am i to understand the only significant difference is that it is designed to work better with itunes? If i don't use itunes (i don't) then i will not get any benefit from using it?
Also i read they replaced the scroll bar with a finger slider whatever.
Off topic rant. I would have to agree with Bloodline that i prefer the old fashioned desktops as opposed to the new modern types. I know this is off topic but when i installed windows 7 a year ago the first thing i did was make it look/work like Vista/XP. IMO i simply do not understand why people complain about a start bar being hard to use. I love pull down/up menus. So easy to use. Rant finished :rant:
PS i'm drunk.
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Lion still surprises me at times by doing things I don't expect. Out of the box it reverses scrolling, you can put it back to the old way, but I chose to leave it and adjust my thinking. It's almost like learning a new OS.
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I've noticed no speed differences between Lion and Snow Leopard... Really, it's all the interface paradigm changes that will bug you the most. As Amiga users we have 26 years of training in the old Deaktop model... Lion gets rid of things (optionally, but by default) that probably don't rely make sense, but we have grown used to.
It's a good upgrade, and while I think there are a number of missteps... It does show the future of the desk top... This Apple does, not by innovation but by simply having the balls to do it!
I could not agree more with Bloodline. I kind of miss the old Spaces but MC is ok. There are a lot of bugs in Lion so I'm sure 10.7.1 is in the works as we speak.
In the end, it's a good OS and shows where things are going. Windows 8 will really have to be something special to keep step with OS X.
I do think OS X - as we know it now - is at an end. I think Apple will end OS X on Lion given any cat name after Lion will seem lower. iOS is from OS X so I think the next OS will just continue to blend the interface ideals together. I'm not sure I'm happy with that.
If you are thinking of upgrading, do it. For the $30 you pay it is a great bargain. Though the price is to lure you further down the Apple iOS-Cloud-App-Store road so no surprises there.
Cheers!
-P
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If anything Lion feels slightly more responsive than Snow Leopard. It's prettier too.
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Ars Technica has a very comprehensive review. It addressed nearly all of my concerns - most of the new behaviors can be turned off. The invisible scrollbars was something I was worried about (makes no sense for a desktop system), but fortunately you can make them permanently visible.
I haven't bought Lion yet, but I'll probably test it on an external drive or spare partition first. Don't want to overwrite 10.6 just yet, especially due to elimination of PPC emulation.
I'm excited about the full-screen applications - from what I've read it seems like Apple finally grasps the concept of Amiga-style public screens.
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2.0 Ghz processor is recommended for Mac OS X Lion, I think I read that in the App-Store. Its a little sluggish at times Dougal compared to Snow Leopard, so yes there are performance issues. I expect they will be addressed in future patches which is often the case with many OS Updates.
Overall not a lot has changed contrary to what they tell you and thats kinda of reflected in the price.
Most of the changes are in the interface, I can tell you the new interface is really boring and grey. Its like a step backwards and a little forwards at the same time.
Full-screen applications are simply that, as soon as you alt-tab to another application the menu bar and dock re-appear. It effects that application only and is nothing like a public screen experience.
I felt Snow Leopard was perfection anyway now they are just pissing around.
This Lion has more of a mieow and is definitely not king of the jungle just yet.
My Config: Mac Mini (2010), 2.26 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB Ram.
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I have a MacBookPro 3,1 (2007) model with Lion and it runs ok. I do think its a little faster booting up now -
As to the the future of OS X, I agree that we're going to see further consolidation between iOS and OS X - what really worries me is if that if Apple start to prohibit installation of applications downloaded through the web, well that will be it for me. While there are some advantages to Apples curated App Store (no malware), I don't want to lose the freedom of downloading and installing apps off the web.
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I just installed Lion on my 11" MBA (2010). Took about 30 minutes to install after downloading a 3.5GB file. My MBA is the base 1.4Ghz, 2 GB ram w/SSD. Works great. Very snappy, as it was with Snow Leopard.
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I've installed it to 4 macs at home and other than few kinks (reversing the default gesture scroll direction, wtf?) everything has gone very smoothly. I haven't noticed any performance issues compared to Snow Leopard. The slowest systems are two 2007 MBP 17" with 2.4 and 2.6GHz C2D and they're perfectly fine. I'm mostly interested about the new security features Lion brings: There are some major fixes inside Lion in this regard. I haven't yet upgraded my work MBP though, since it uses Symantec Full Disk Crypto which is known to have serious issues at system upgrades. Better wait for some other guinea pigs to sort the issues out first... ;-)
BTW: On some systems with fast disk I/O (ones with SSD basically) the initial Spotlight indexing might slow the system to crawl. This happened with my MBP 13". Just wait until the indexing is done and it'll be okay. Of course it's also possible to disabled the indexing altogether if you don't need it.
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@Mflecter:
Yes, very good point. That would be the road to ruin. OSes need to be as open as possible.
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It works a treat on my knackered old early 2008 17" MBP which is Core 2 Duo 2.5GHz but only running at 1.25GHz at the moment due to a borked battery connection.
Will try it on my wife's same era white Macbook next week when it comes back from repair but might have to upgrade the ram from the paltry 1gb it currently has.
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@Mflecter:
Yes, very good point. That would be the road to ruin. OSes need to be as open as possible.
Unlike the NIH ridden OS4 then.
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Nope sorry, no idea what NIH is an abbreviation for.
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Nope sorry, no idea what NIH is an abbreviation for.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wiki+nih
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I don't mind it, and I am starting to get used to parts of it. Although I spent two hours changing somethings to make it more to my liking. iCal had a leather like skin, which I replaced with the traditional metallic. The scroll is a little weird, and I changed that back to normal. Did not like how Finder automatically shows the all my files thing as a default, and so I removed that. The library folder is hidden by default, and it takes a terminal command to unhide it.
The last time I went into terminal to change anything was to enable the "alt" keys in X11, and change the default "traffic light" button layout in iTunes from horizontal to vertical like the other programs. Consistency is a huge thing for me, and so that bugged me...mainly because I either minimize programs into the dock or use them in the back ground; I never shrink iTunes. Doing things through the terminal isn't so bad anymore given that I have needed to do a lot of command line stuff in Ubuntu and so doing it in OSX isn't really that different.
I do like Launchpad though, and with the track pad it is very easy to swipe through programs. I didn't think I would like it, but it quickly grew on me. Although I don't like the dull look of some of the OS, and a few of my FOSS apps don't work...but I have a Linux HD that can take over any of those needs.
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wiki+nih
:lol: had NO idea that existed!
gunna havta hold onto that lil link for later... :D
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wiki+nih
Sorry Piru but with that you just came over as a bit of a ***!
Would it have been so hard to actually answer the question without insulting the asker ?
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Sorry Piru but with that you just came over as a bit of a ***!
Would it have been so hard to actually answer the question without insulting the asker ?
There are 3 options here... :)
1) It's a genuine answer for people too lazy to goggle it...
2) It's Piru's Andriod sense of humour finally showing...
or
3) Yes Piru is a ***...
Take yer pick... :)
PS: Macs and whomever came up with the method for installing OSX must have been either someone with a hell of a lot of time on their hands or a right B@$&@%d, never seen such a ruddy load of cobblers in me life at least 8 ruddy hours just to install OSX 10.5, ruddy a-holes... :(
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That sounds like it could be a hardware fault Frank. It shouldn't take more than half an hour to install.
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That sounds like it could be a hardware fault Frank. It shouldn't take more than half an hour to install.
@ Nicholas
When I replaced the HD in my G5 a few months back it took nearly 50 minutes to just install 10.5.2 from the DVD then just over 7 hours of downloading and installing all the updates just to get to 10.5.8 (the max this old iMac G5 can use)... :(
(and all that just to use the ruddy internet...) :cry:
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Would it have been so hard to actually answer the question
I did answer the question.
without insulting the asker ?
No, sorry he deserved it.
Have we really become as lazy as to not google for 3 letter acronym we don't know about?
Since when has it become an insulting to point this out?
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@ Nicholas
When I replaced the HD in my G5 a few months back it took nearly 50 minutes to just install 10.5.2 from the DVD then just over 7 hours of downloading and installing all the updates just to get to 10.5.8 (the max this old iMac G5 can use)... :(
(and all that just to use the ruddy internet...) :cry:
Why did you change your HD? You said you never use it except for the internet. The truth is you really do like using your mac. It wasn't broken... you UPGRADED! :roflmao:
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Why did you change your HD? You said you never use it except for the internet. The truth is you really do like using your mac. It wasn't broken... you UPGRADED! :roflmao:
Cos the old one (which was less than 8 months old) being a SATA HD and the way that poxy Macs work was reporting "fatal errors" due to that silly built in self testing crap they put in SATA HDs... :(
OSX stopped letting me use it because it checks for these errors and if it find them the disk becomes unusable, so I had to replace it... :(
But it works fine on my Amiga's cos they don't bother with that silly built in self testing crap that I've since discovered can often be wrong but of course on Mac OSX if these errors reach the critical/fatal stage, then whether their is actually anything wrong with the disk or not the OS doesn't let you use it... bloody load of nonsense if you ask me... :(
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S.M.A.R.T. (Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology; sometimes written as SMART) is a monitoring system for computer hard disk drives to detect and report on various indicators of reliability, in the hope of anticipating failures.
When a failure is anticipated by S.M.A.R.T., the user may choose to replace the drive to avoid unexpected outage and data loss.
Say whatever you like I'll rather take false positives sometimes rather than data loss.
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I noot try the lion, but i try the AROS in my macbook and it works very fast.
BR
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Say whatever you like I'll rather take false positives sometimes rather than data loss.
I'd rather not, when you consider that there was nothing wrong with the drive in the first place... ;)
After removing it from the MAC and not because of "just in case" it was because the MAC and it's poxy OS would not allow anything to be written to the disk any more because of these so called "S.M.A.R.T." errors. I tested it in a media box player and it worked fine and then I tested it on an Amiga (filled all 500GBs) and it worked fine & still does...
Point is after doing much reading about this so called "SMART" technology, it seems it's not very smart at all and prone to giving false errors thus forcing the user to buy a new drive and having to reinstall a whole ruddy system and data... :madashell:
I've even read that it's a marketing ploy by the manufactures just make sure we keep buying new HDs... :furious:
There are also programs the manufactures have to reset/ flash the chips on the HD to reset all the "SMART" parameters but they wont allow the public to have them because they say people would use the program to reset faulty HDs and resell them.... :(
Call me cynical but it's more like they wont release these programs so that the user is conned into purchasing a new HD instead of running a quick program that would save what is otherwise a perfectly working HD (not to mention all your data)... :madashell:
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wiki+nih
:lol: :lol: :lol:
(Great site! Bookmarked for future reference! ;))
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I actually find Lion running much smoother, quicker and better than Snow Leopard on my iMac.
Only thing I miss is the old spaces. But probaly just till I get used to the new :-)
NO BUGS sofar
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Forgot.
Downloaded Lion in 20 minutes... So gotta ask 20 Hours ? Do you have an old 56kb connection ?
Install took another 20 minutes.
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I did answer the question.
No, sorry he deserved it.
Have we really become as lazy as to not google for 3 letter acronym we don't know about?
Since when has it become an insulting to point this out?
What ?!!? Where did you "answer" the question ? You gave him a link to six and a half MILLION results!!
And how on earth did he manage to deserve being insulted ? I've re-read the thread and no-where was he deserving of anything, he merely stated he had no idea what NIH meant ... most normal people who know a factoid others don't are more than happy to enlighten .. looks like you're just a muppet who likes to think he is better than others.
Sorry, but I'm adding you to my list of things to smite when I become omnipotent ... you're just after mosquitos....
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*Amiga* dot org right?
Its funny I dont seem to recall OSX being amiga related.
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*Amiga* dot org right?
Its funny I dont seem to recall OSX being amiga related.
I used to moan about that too but have come to realise you cant have it all your own way (as much as I try)... ;)
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More often than not I'll leave these sorts of things alone as there's a tenuous link between amiga and Macs/pcs/etc sometimes, but occassionally, like this thread and iPad threads I just dont get why it's here. In no way, shape or form related, its just flat-out OSX talk.
Any good Apple forums I can go and ask amiga questions please someone ?
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More often than not I'll leave these sorts of things alone as there's a tenuous link between amiga and Macs/pcs/etc sometimes, but occassionally, like this thread and iPad threads I just dont get why it's here. In no way, shape or form related, its just flat-out OSX talk.
Any good Apple forums I can go and ask amiga questions please someone ?
While I can see why some folk like to ask questions here to fellow Amiga users about other systems they own or use, I agree that it really has no place here on an "Amiga" site when it's not even slightly Amiga related... :)
I basically noticed a rather smart arse comment made by Piru and decided to comment on that then I somehow got onto the subject of HDs (which are Amiga related) and ended up babbling about that... :)
But when all's said and done whether you and I don't agree to such threads being here, at the end of day we're still free to comment on it and make our feelings known on the matter, so it kinda balances itself out in the end I suppose... :)
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I guess the best way to view these threads is that these are all Amigans looking for help from or talk about other things with people they know. Asking these things on an Apple specific forum and you'll get views from people who aren’t grounded in the Amiga; there is no commonality.
The people who post in "OTHER OPERATING SYSTEMS" here are looking for responses from people they have grown to trust or at least understand their view points.
Just think of A.ORG as the Amiga Pub of the innerwebz. ;) People float from one table to another to talk about different topics but ultimately are all her for the same reason, whether they are talking about it right now or not... :D
Oh, and if you don't care about what is being said at one table at this time, you can always meander to another one or start up your own. ;)
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Tested on Generation 2 MBA (Late 2010) and 2006 Mac Pro. Works fine. Seems to work like Snow Leopard did just with the new gestures etc. I did assign the F5 key I think it was to Launchpad as not having a button for it was pointless.
I am slowly getting used to the new gestures, I bought a trackpad for the Mac Pro, though there is one thing I don't like. Dashboard! I prefer how it come over the screen and was translucent. I use the calculator a lot and I often have numbers on the browser that I wish to refer to when using the calculator. Having to flick back and forth is annoying. I could probably find an app to do it but dashboard was perfect.
Oh well, can't win them all!
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What ?!!? Where did you "answer" the question ? You gave him a link to six and a half MILLION results!!
Of which the 2nd is the obviously correct term. Surely we're not talking about National Institutes of Health...
And how on earth did he manage to deserve being insulted ?
For being lazy and not googling for it. Also, the "insulting" part is your invention. I don't find lmgtfy insulting at all.
As for your opinion of me, I don't give a damn really.
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Computer Nerds Arguing and maybe later fighting ?? :-)
Well well... What can happen ? You hurt each other with your pocket protectors ? :-D
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@nicholas:
What has the National Institute of Health got to do with the topic in question?
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More often than not I'll leave these sorts of things alone as there's a tenuous link between amiga and Macs/pcs/etc sometimes, but occassionally, like this thread and iPad threads I just dont get why it's here. In no way, shape or form related, its just flat-out OSX talk.
Any good Apple forums I can go and ask amiga questions please someone ?
This is the "other operating systems" subforum and considering the high number of mac users on this site, it's totally appropriate.
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This is the "other operating systems" subforum and considering the high number of mac users on this site, it's totally appropriate.
Couldnt agree more :-)
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If you download the OS X Lion from the app store, you wil see in the app bundle when you select "show package contents" in finder you can navigate to one of the subfolders and you'll find a 3.5GiB dmg file. I burned that file to a DVD and formatted a 1TiB external USB disk drive as an HFS journaled fs. The DVD was bootable and I installed Lion to the USB drive.
The point I'm getting to here is that you can purchase the "upgrade", burn it to a DVD and then easily install it to an external drive if you want to test it out before upgrading.
I wasn't impressed with inverting the scroll direction on my mouse. I turned that off, "natural" my ass. I don't like what they have done with the scroll bars through out the UI. The space for the bars are still there only now they "hide" so you can't see where you are in a document. That's irritating. They've screwed with the "back" and "forward" function on the Magic Mouse. What was "back" now makes the whole screen slide to dashboard. Annoying. Now back and forward takes three fingers.
Expose is changed. I kind of like what they did with it though. Can still set corners to show all windows for a single app and show desktop. Keys don't auto repeat any more, holding down O for example brings up a pop-up so you can select the modifiers on that letter. Some will appreciate that, I don't. I wonder how that will affect games that use W-A-S-D ?
Ical is fugly as hell now. Mail.app has been made annoying, at least you can go back to a "classic" view. Over all, it's just business as usual. They've dorked with the UI. Seems like they've run out of things to innovate, so they do stuff like screw with the mouse wheel direction and make the scroll bars less useful. Google chrome has some issues, back and forward don't work any more and it gets trapped in "full screen". Ouch, new UI changes shouldn't break existing apps.
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System Preferences > General > Show Scroll Bars > Always
Automatically based on input device is a brain dead selection, unfortunately it's also the default....
Also you may be interested in System Preferences >Trackpad > Scroll & Zoom > Scroll direction: natural
This is what reverse the mouse and trackpad scrolling directions....
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If you don't like the feature that gives you accents when holding down a key the way to re-enable key repeating is to first close all open applications and type the following command in terminal.
defaults write -g ApplePressAndHoldEnabled -bool false
I have tested this on my system and it works, but if like me you want back the ability to hold down a key and get accents it is simple to reverse the change. Again quit all open applications and in terminal type.
defaults write -g ApplePressAndHoldEnabled -bool true
This will restore the default settings.
I posted this elsewhere, but given that I actually researched this and tested it on my own system and some forum members here might want to know I decided to share it.
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I believe Lion should run perfectly fine on my 1.6ghz Macbook Air with 2GB ram. My MBA is the late 2008 model which uses DDR3 ram and has the faster bus.
I say it should run fine because the new MBA's must be shipping with Lion, even the 2GB ones. The 11" MBA is only 1.4Ghz. Apple wouldnt ship them with Lion if it were to slow.
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I just installed Lion on my iMac (Late 2009) 4GB DDR3 ram 3.06 Core 2 Duo and it is working great and super smooth even right now while indexing (i just upgraded now).
Now hoping my MBA will also fair well.. Like in my previous post my MBA has 2GB ram and 1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo but as a plus point it is the late 2008 - mid 2009 model with the DDR3 ram, so fingers crossed.
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I recently install Lion on my 2007 MacBook and the performance isn't any slower than with Snow Leopard.
Model Name: MacBook
Model Identifier: MacBook3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 4 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
Memory Type: DDR2 SDRAM
Memory Speed: 667 MHz
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There are still Apple computers? Seriously?
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Thats great. Though your Macbook is 2Ghz, my Air is 1.6 and your Macbook has 4GB ram, mine has 2GB.
What is better on mine is the Bus speed which is 1.07Ghz against your 800Mhz. And my ram is 1066Mhz DDR3, L2 is 6MB.
I may try installing Lion to an external USB drive if its possible and try it from there first.
I recently install Lion on my 2007 MacBook and the performance isn't any slower than with Snow Leopard.
Model Name: MacBook
Model Identifier: MacBook3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 4 MB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
Memory Type: DDR2 SDRAM
Memory Speed: 667 MHz
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Model Name: MacBook Air
Model Identifier: MacBookAir2,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 1.6 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 6 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 1.07 GHz