Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on December 30, 2011, 06:13:30 AM
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News from digitex via http://www.commodore-amiga.org/
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/11229-commodore-trademark-has-a-new-daddy--#11229
(News article from site reprinted below for your convenience)
After months of hard work and international legal filings, I am thrilled to finally announce that Commodore Holdings (C Holdings), which is the corporate entity that owns and holds the trademark IP "Commodore" is no longer a part of or a division of Asiarim Corp. The stock in Commodore Holdings was pledged as collateral years ago, and 100% ownership of that company is now in the hands of a new group (wonder who that can be?). Additionally, a ruling came down this afternoon from the Netherlands court that has formally put Commodore Licensing B.V. into involuntary bankruptcy. This bankruptcy proceeding was initiated by this same group. Asiarim and whatever else is left of it will shortly be following suit. The Netherlands court will be appointing a receiver for the bankrupt parties within the next day or two.
Stay tuned for the further adventures of Commodore USA.....and btw, this news has NOTHING to do with our major announcements that will be forthcoming shortly.
Happy New Year everyone. I wish each and every one of you, our customers, supporters and forum members, health and happiness in 2012.
Barry
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What new major announcement?
So Commodore is no longer Commodore USA?
I am so confused in this whole saga. One of the best computers ever released hardly gets a mention in any of the retrobooks I've been reading of late. They just focus on Apple, IBM, Atari, Sega, Nintendo it was as if the Amiga never happened....perhaps it is just a dream and I'll wake up to find Bobby Ewing in my shower!
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News from digitex via http://www.commodore-amiga.org/
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/11229-commodore-trademark-has-a-new-daddy--#11229
After months of hard work and international legal filings, I am thrilled to finally announce that Commodore Holdings (C Holdings), which is the corporate entity that owns and holds the trademark IP "Commodore" is no longer a part of or a division of Asiarim Corp. The stock in Commodore Holdings was pledged as collateral years ago, and 100% ownership of that company is now in the hands of a new group (wonder who that can be?). Additionally, a ruling came down this afternoon from the Netherlands court that has formally put Commodore Licensing B.V. into involuntary bankruptcy. This bankruptcy proceeding was initiated by this same group. Asiarim and whatever else is left of it will shortly be following suit. The Netherlands court will be appointing a receiver for the bankrupt parties within the next day or two.
Stay tuned for the further adventures of Commodore USA.....and btw, this news has NOTHING to do with our major announcements that will be forthcoming shortly.
Happy New Year everyone. I wish each and every one of you, our customers, supporters and forum members, health and happiness in 2012.
Barry
This implies that Transition is really Barry? I hope this isn't true.
Yeah i don't understand the saga either but I'm hoping this will mean CUSA will be worse off and not gain from it. They are not worthy of getting more than what they already have. Exactly what does this mean.
As for the big announcement, do we get a prize if we guess what it is? Don't expect me to reply to anything you say as i'm shunning you until you prove you are not Barry/digitex :razz:
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@CUSA/C=: Unlaid eggs. Nothing substantial so far.
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Well I read that to mean that CUSA now own the commodore trademarks and IP rather than just having a licence to use them.
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So the trademarks are now officially owned by Nicholas then? This is excellent news! Thank goodness for that, someone we can actually trust for once.
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perhaps it is just a dream and I'll wake up to find Bobby Ewing in my shower!
Which is why one should have a camera at hand all the time, even when taking a shower.
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This implies that Transition is really Barry? I hope this isn't true.
Yeah i don't understand the saga either but I'm hoping this will mean CUSA will be worse off and not gain from it. They are not worthy of getting more than what they already have. Exactly what does this mean.
it means they own the IP now. As for being worse off don't count on it.
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This implies that Transition is really Barry? I hope this isn't true.
Yeah i don't understand the saga either but I'm hoping this will mean CUSA will be worse off and not gain from it. They are not worthy of getting more than what they already have. Exactly what does this mean.
As for the big announcement, do we get a prize if we guess what it is? Don't expect me to reply to anything you say as i'm shunning you until you prove you are not Barry/digitex :razz:
Well, we got 'mo!
On Dec 22, 2011 Commodore USA, LLC and Amiga Inc. signed a new contract granting us EXCLUSIVE WORLDWIDE rights to ALL format computers branded with the Amiga trademark IP. These registered trademarked logos include the BOING Ball, TIC/Check mark, letter A and the word AMIGA logos. Form factors include, but are not limited to Desktop, HTPC, Tower AIO/ Keyboard etc. This contract will run through Dec 31, 2018, with optional renewals. Additionally we have been granted the right to enforce the Amiga trademark IP, in instances where we feel the trademark property has been either used in an unauthorized manner or in a form not allowed under current international and US law. We look forward to releasing our initial Commodore Amiga branded computers beginning by the end of the first quarter 2012.
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Personally, I won't buy it unless it has an Amiga-like OS on it. But that't me and my narrow-minded views of what an Amiga is...
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It's good that all the Commodore and Amiga branding is united under one roof again.....
.. as long as the names aren't just used to stick on generic PCs as leverage to sell machines anyway.
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Most probably it will be 10 games in a joystick kind of thing.
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Additionally we have been granted the right to enforce the Amiga trademark IP, in instances where we feel the trademark property has been either used in an unauthorized manner or in a form not allowed under current international and US law.
This may turn out to be the Devil's hoof for some, I'm afraid.
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This may turn out to be the Devil's hoof for some, I'm afraid.
????????
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=devil's%20hoof
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Oh crap - I translated from my native language directly without consulting a dictionary. Funny meaning still.
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http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/2-welcome-mat/11285-some-more-good-news-to-end-2011#11285
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Oh, huzzah, now the PC clones can have stickers on them without paying a licensing fee. HUZZAH, I SAY.
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Well, we got 'mo!
On Dec 22, 2011 Commodore USA, LLC and Amiga Inc. signed a new contract granting us EXCLUSIVE WORLDWIDE rights to ALL format computers branded with the Amiga trademark IP. These registered trademarked logos include the BOING Ball, TIC/Check mark, letter A and the word AMIGA logos. Form factors include, but are not limited to Desktop, HTPC, Tower AIO/ Keyboard etc. This contract will run through Dec 31, 2018, with optional renewals. Additionally we have been granted the right to enforce the Amiga trademark IP, in instances where we feel the trademark property has been either used in an unauthorized manner or in a form not allowed under current international and US law. We look forward to releasing our initial Commodore Amiga branded computers beginning by the end of the first quarter 2012.
Uh, given that Amiga Inc.'s own ownership of those things is in question, you may have have just bought a bridge in Brooklyn...
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This is an absolute disaster for the community.
The C64x, the most ambitious of all Commodore USA products, is to put it bluntly the bare minimum. The keyboard has no PETSCII decals, is less contoured than the original, there is no way to use ANY C64 related peripherals under emulation (be it real 9 pin joysticks or 1541 replacement SD drives), does not come with a decent OS and is so over priced it makes Alienware PCs look cheap.
Leave it.
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Enjoy the Amiga curse!. You guys deserve it more then anyone!. I give you 6 months tops.
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They are still under the impression they can throw a bunch of workstation components in a case that any other company would charge $4,000 for and by virtue of the Amiga name, slap a $5,000 premium on it because it has the Amiga name on it. The Amiga name has no value to people using commodity high end workstations, sorry - much less the hysterical thought of said workstation PC's coming with Commodore OS, LOL. The Toaster days are long gone, sorry.
They can't, much less in a HTPC case like they had mocked up, lol. I'm not sure if they put much thought into how that HTPC case would become a microwave over with a couple CPU's and Quadro cards in it, not that they would fit anyways.
Personally, I'll wait for my Amiga boing ball branded bathroom fixtures. That's where the big cash cow lies, boys.
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Additionally we have been granted the right to enforce the Amiga trademark IP, in instances where we feel the trademark property has been either used in an unauthorized manner or in a form not allowed under current international and US law.
Told ya this would happen!
I wonder what CUSA will do to those not paying a royalty for using the BOING Ball, TIC/Check mark, letter A and the word AMIGA logos on their websites or other uses such as merchandise.
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All this does not mean they can now go after Hyperion and Aeon again for use of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS names, can they?
tj
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So nobody can use the letter "A"? :D
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It's good that all the Commodore and Amiga branding is united under one roof again.....
.. as long as the names aren't just used to stick on generic PCs as leverage to sell machines anyway.
+1
But congrats, in any case. Best of luck! :)
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All this does not mean they can now go after Hyperion and Aeon again for use of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS names, can they?
tj
Nope. That's already been settled, they can't be tried again, it'd just be thrown out of court.
Plus I seriously doubt C=USA either have the money to go through such a court case, or to be stupid enough to try, given the fact that it's already been decided in Hyperion's favour (and before anyone pipes up saying Hyperion didn't win, it was quite obvious that Hyperion had the stronger case otherwise Amiga Inc wouldn't have capitulated so easily - that's as good as winning).
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????????
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=devil's%20hoof
ROFL :rofl:
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So that's a big annoucement for them? ....ooooo...kaayy... Now what?
A company selling fake 64s and planning to build fake Amigas buying the rights from a company doing absolutely nothing... Wow! bright future ahead...
/end of huuuuuge sarcasm
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Did AInc really capitulate or did they just found a way of getting what they wanted (being able to licence "teh name" to someone else) without further cost ?
Hyperion having a stronger case ??? Wasn't it something around:
"Since we didn't fullfill our part of the contract(s) we now demand that we are allowed to pull a clause that has been illegal from day one (read reordering creditors)"
The whole court case was a complete mess from both sides and the quality of the settling wasn't much better, so yes I'm quite sure a good lawyer could find a loophole allowing NotC=USA to sue Hyperion over the use of the Amiga-trademarks.
Do I think they will go down that way ? *shrug* ..... but I sure keep a king-size bucket of popcorn ready just in case ;)
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All this does not mean they can now go after Hyperion and Aeon again for use of the AmigaOne and AmigaOS names, can they?
tj
I shouldn't think so, logos form part of the settlement between Hyperion and Inc.
I'm not sure on A-eon, if they have acquired the AmigaOne name somehow from
Hyperion, are if it was transferred from Eyetec who were granted the original rights
from Ainc.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpO7kBm0mxM
The whole thing reminds me of this.
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[...] granting us EXCLUSIVE WORLDWIDE rights to [...] the BOING Ball
I'm not a native English speaker, so could you please clarify if you claim to have an exclusive license to use the Boingball image? That would directly contradict AInc's settlement with Hyperion, that's why I'm asking.
These registered trademarked logos include the BOING Ball, TIC/Check mark, letter A and the word AMIGA logos.
AFAIK, neither the check mark nor the letter A are registered trademarks in the US or Europe - I was actively searching for registered Amiga related trademarks a while ago. Could you give us some serial no. or anything like that so we can check the registration in the USPTO database?
If they're not registered, any claims of ownership are on somewhat shacky ground IMHO. The italic "A" (I doubt you can actually protect that at all) hasn't been used commercially for fifteen years, the last commercial use of the checkmark was a decade ago (and if I don't tell you where it has been used, you'd never find out).
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I'm not a native English speaker, so could you please clarify if you claim to have an exclusive license to use the Boingball image? That would directly contradict AInc's settlement with Hyperion, that's why I'm asking.
AFAIK, neither the check mark nor the letter A are registered trademarks in the US or Europe - I was actively searching for registered Amiga related trademarks a while ago. Could you give us some serial no. or anything like that so we can check the registration in the USPTO database?
If they're not registered, any claims of ownership are on somewhat shacky ground IMHO. The italic "A" (I doubt you can actually protect that at all) hasn't been used commercially for fifteen years, the last commercial use of the checkmark was a decade ago (and if I don't tell you where it has been used, you'd never find out).
I commented on that here (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34861&forum=44#645366)
Please read my interpretation and tell me if I'm wrong.
#6
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I don't understand how someone can sell exclusive worldwide rights to something someone else already had been given rights to in a previous legal agreement, but then thats just the dirtball kind of thing we've got to expect from silly billy over at the joke of amiga inc. I guess he needed to do something because the sales of his snowman app (Their only product in HOW many years) have been slipping lately. :roflmao:
Also, what happened to their tablets? Their "SHOP" does not work for how long now. I guess they didn't have money to actually buy and rebrand those things.
Also...saying your buying NON amiga commodore ip is kind of strange. What do you then own? commodore pet,vic20, c64/65 and 128 basic roms? I suppose the commodore name and the right to use it for anything you want is worth something, but I can't imagine what pre-amiga commodore IP is worth.
Interesting... I hope they do something good with the name but given their track record so far, I'm not holding my breath.
Steven
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Also, what happened to their tablets? Their "SHOP" does not work for how long now. I guess they didn't have money to actually buy and rebrand those things.
Steven
somewhat newish info (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34762&forum=44&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#645341)
#6
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Please read my interpretation and tell me if I'm wrong.
I take it you're referring to the fact that the Boingball image is not registered anymore either. That's correct, but for the sake of simplicity (reregistering or even defending it without having it registered should be very easy, as it's still in commercial use) I decided to not mention that. Barry already has enough questions to answer.
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It's good that all the Commodore and Amiga branding is united under one roof again.....
.. as long as the names aren't just used to stick on generic PCs as leverage to sell machines anyway.
The wrong roof.
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somewhat newish info (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=34762&forum=44&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0#645341)
#6
Looks like some people got screwed over, a leopard doesn't change it's spots.
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So that's a big annoucement for them? ....ooooo...kaayy... Now what?
No, this is not the big announcement. Haters should rest up, they will need all their strength when the announcement hits.
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You mean another fantastic news like that deal with Disney ?
Or that fantastic 30.000.000$ advertising budget ?
Don't forget the 100.000++ NotC=64s that have been sold via major retail outlets !!
Or that fantastic Mint-Linux based Ski^H^H^H COS !!!!!!
Hanging on the tip of my chair.
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No, this is not the big announcement. Haters should rest up, they will need all their strength when the announcement hits.
THE announcement...the worst kept secret in Amiga history.
Also you keep saying "haters" and it has never crossed your tiny, little mind that there are REASONS for that.
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No, this is not the big announcement. Haters should rest up, they will need all their strength when the announcement hits.
Serioisly, and I mean this as genuine advice, you and other C=USA people would be very well advised to stop with the news of announcements. It's one thing to put out a bit of hype but going on and on about how there's going to be an announcement just gets everybody fed up and not interested.
You're getting a reputation for hyperbole much more than a reputation for products, is that really what you want?
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On Dec 22, 2011 Commodore USA, LLC and Amiga Inc. signed a new contract granting us EXCLUSIVE WORLDWIDE rights to ALL format computers branded with the Amiga trademark IP. These registered trademarked logos include the BOING Ball, TIC/Check mark, letter A and the word AMIGA logos. Form factors include, but are not limited to Desktop, HTPC, Tower, AIO/ Keyboard etc.
This contract will run through Dec 31, 2018, with optional renewals. Additionally we have been granted the right to enforce the Amiga trademark IP, in instances where we feel the trademark property has been either used in an unauthorized manner or in a form not allowed under current international and US law.
Bring more popcorn! :D
2012 will be the Year of the Amiga!
:lol:
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Bring more popcorn! :D
2012 will be the Year of the Amiga!
We need an official popcorn brand for A.org...
... then I can buy shares in them and get megarich! Muhahahahahaaa.....
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I'm not a native English speaker, so could you please clarify if you claim to have an exclusive license to use the Boingball image? That would directly contradict AInc's settlement with Hyperion, that's why I'm asking.
The statement is actually very specific. I highlighted the important part:
"On Dec 22, 2011 Commodore USA, LLC and Amiga Inc. signed a new contract granting us EXCLUSIVE WORLDWIDE rights to ALL format computers branded with the Amiga trademark IP.
In their settlement with Hyperion Entertainment, Amiga granted the opposing party the right to use the Boing Ball logo in conjuction with a particular software product.
"Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x ... under the exclusive trademark "AmigaOS" (Amiga operating system) and using other associated trademarks (such as the "BoingBall" logo)."
AFAIK, neither the check mark nor the letter A are registered trademarks in the US or Europe - I was actively searching for registered Amiga related trademarks a while ago. (..)
If they're not registered, any claims of ownership are on somewhat shacky ground IMHO.
I am afraid your opinion on this legal matter is a bit on shaky ground :-)
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I'm not a native English speaker, so could you please clarify if you claim to have an exclusive license to use the Boingball image? That would directly contradict AInc's settlement with Hyperion, that's why I'm asking.
Hyperion's contract with Amiga Inc grants them (during the lifetime of the contract) the exclusive right to use the marks "AmigaOne", "Amiga One", "AmigaOS" and "Amiga OS" for their OS4 and the hardware meant for it, but *nothing else*. And that's *all* they have exclusive! They can't call their products "Amiga 500" for example, and *certainly not* the plain word "Amiga" either, that's a no-no. Hyperion does also have the right to use the Boing Ball for this particular area of use (marketing OS4 and the HW meant for it *only*) as well, but that is a *non-exclusive* right.
See the "Definitions (g) Exclusive Licensed Marks" and "1. Grant (C)" sections of the Amiga Inc / Hyperion settlement (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/148/1.pdf?ts=1261235573)
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So that's a big annoucement for them? ....ooooo...kaayy... Now what?
A company selling fake 64s and planning to build fake Amigas buying the rights from a company doing absolutely nothing... Wow! bright future ahead...
/end of huuuuuge sarcasm
They own the name, isn't that bad enough? Of all people to end up owning the rights to Commodore it is the one who's flagship product doesn't even have the foresight to come with 9pin to USB port adaptors or come with a single D64/TAP file or anything and a rubbish keyboard with no PETSCII graphics for the princely sum of just under $2000 for a $500 PC of the same CPU power?
We got screwed again :)
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THE announcement...the worst kept secret in Amiga history.
What is THE announcement then?
Also you keep saying "haters" and it has never crossed your tiny, little mind that there are REASONS for that.
Because haters have to hate.
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Serioisly, and I mean this as genuine advice, you and other C=USA people would be very well advised to stop with the news of announcements. It's one thing to put out a bit of hype but going on and on about how there's going to be an announcement just gets everybody fed up and not interested.
You're getting a reputation for hyperbole much more than a reputation for products, is that really what you want?
Seriously, go reread the article and see who posted it. Hint, it wasn't C=USA staff nor myself. When THE big announcement hits, I will post it to Amiga.org's News for approval less Barry or Leo beat me to it.
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What is THE announcement then?
Because haters have to hate.
I know. Do you? Or are you just pretending?
Nah, haters don't have to hate, hate is born out of a reason, dear me...are you for real?
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Hey Amiga.org owners. Can we move all C-USA related threads to it's own forum called something like " Amiga INC offshoots" that stays off the main page like AW.net has?. This is starting to turn into C-USA.org again....
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Hey Amiga.org owners. Can we move all C-USA related threads to it's own forum called something like " Amiga INC offshoots" that stays off the main page like AW.net has?. This is starting to turn into C-USA.org again....
Maybe it is already?! :D
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The statement is actually very specific.
In their settlement with Hyperion Entertainment, Amiga granted the opposing party the right to use the Boing Ball logo in conjuction with a particular software product.
Section 1, paragraph (c) of the Ainc/Hyperion settlement says:
Solely for the purpose of marketing, distributing and making available AmigaOS 4 and any hardware required or desired to operate with AmigaOS 4, the Amiga parties grant Hyperion [...] a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide and royalty-free, transferable right and license to use the "Boing Ball" logo mark.
In fact, an embossed Boing Ball on the front door and "Boing Ball keys" are the main selling points for the X1000 case and keyboard.
If Barry claims to have an exclusive license, something doesn't add up here.
I am afraid your opinion on this legal matter is a bit on shaky ground :-)
Then enlighten me, please ;) I don't know how difficult or easy it is to defend a mark that was never registered and hasn't been in commercial use for more than a decade. If you have any pointers regarding that, I'd be interested.
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Why not just call the forum Commodore USA? If people want to read it they can, if people want to ignore it they can. The forum name is the name of the company, so there is no insult meant by it. It just seems so simple.
The main purpose of this site is the Classic Amiga and it's descendants, which of course is not Commodore USA, which simply has the license to the trademarks.
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The main purpose of this site is the Classic Amiga and it's descendants, which of course is not Commodore USA, which simply has the license to the trademarks.
So you are saying Commodore has no right to be talked about on the front page anymore?
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I know. Do you? Or are you just pretending?
Why don't you tell us then? Perhaps I don't know, come on, spill the beans!
Nah, haters don't have to hate, hate is born out of a reason, dear me...are you for real?
Then why are haters still having to hate? C=USA has offered an olive branch, seems the haters rather spit on them instead of accepting that olive branch.
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It looks like 2012 will be year where the amiga scene finally implodes.
When amiga.org closes that's the end of it for me. It's been a long time coming anyway.
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Why don't you tell us then? Perhaps I don't know, come on, spill the beans!
Then why are haters still having to hate? C=USA has offered an olive branch, seems the haters rather spit on them instead of accepting that olive branch.
Can't say. I am not supposed to.
Why don't you just accept that because of what CUSA has done in the past some people can't accept olive branches. There are still some people left who have principles you know... ;)
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Why don't you tell us then? Perhaps I don't know, come on, spill the beans!
Then why are haters still having to hate? C=USA has offered an olive branch, seems the haters rather spit on them instead of accepting that olive branch.
And the Greeks even offered a big wooden horse instead of just one measly twig ...
NotC=USA have burned the bridges themselves and looking at the quality of their current merchandise I wouldn't want to use any replacement bridge they might be trying to build.
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@persia, spihunter, etc
Could you please try keeping the discussion on-topic? Thank you.
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Can't say. I am not supposed to.
So then you are going to be celebrating with us then when the official news is announced! Excellent, I was hoping once you gave up on the hate, you would be a solid C=USA supporter.
Why don't you just accept that because of what CUSA has done in the past some people can't accept olive branches. There are still some people left who have principles you know... ;)
For those people, since you evidently are going to be celebrating with us on the great C=USA news you are not are apart of them, are going to be hating life as well as C=USA after this announcement until they too can accept the futility of hating the inevitable.
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accept the futility of hating the inevitable.
Post inspired by the Borg?
#6
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@CUSA
After all this hype, I hope that the announcement will be for something more than a Commodore Amiga branded PC running Linux.
And no, a custom wedge shaped case is not going to make it any better.
When can we expect to see this announcement?
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For those people, since you evidently are going to be celebrating with us on the great C=USA news you are not are apart of them, are going to be hating life as well as C=USA after this announcement until they too can accept the futility of hating the inevitable.
Heavens - do you listen to yourself sometimes? You sound like a politician or some "1984" decal.
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@ Dammy:
I'm really getting tired of your smug, holier-than-thou attitude sprinkled with elitism. It is fair to say that I'm using my full restraint to keep from banning you for a week.
Most of the replies about this news have been fair considering CUSA's track record.
I'm also sure CUSA just loves having you trying to drive in a wedge again and attempting to polarize the community but making "us" and "them" statements.
CUSA SEEMS to be trying to do something good for the community and your venom is SURE helping their cause!
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until they too can accept the futility of hating the inevitable.
When the thing in question is the success/continued existence of a company that has spent nearly its entire existence not simply ignoring, but harassing and belittling the only people who might ever have been interested in it (despite repeated claims that that's "not the target market," followed by attempts to re-court the community,) I'd hardly call it "inevitable." "Improbable," more like.
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When the thing in question is the success/continued existence of a company that has spent nearly its entire existence not simply ignoring, but harassing and belittling the only people who might ever have been interested in it (despite repeated claims that that's "not the target market," followed by attempts to re-court the community,) I'd hardly call it "inevitable." "Improbable," more like.
Then why not just ignore these threads? I know there are plenty of threads I ignore because I have zero interest in.
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Next thing you know CUSA will be claiming they are the 99% of Amiga.
Waiving signs that say #OCCUPY AMIGA!
Seriously! Why do these people INSIST on pushing a product that has nothing to do with Amiga on this website?
(http://www.yadamnfool.com/images/oc_amiga.jpg)
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Post inspired by the Borg?
LOL. I was just thinking that exact thing just before i read your post! :lol:
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@dammy & digitex
We've already had more than enough anouncements from C=USA about their Amiga-branded PC, and about how, if we tell them exactly what we want from an Amiga and promise to pre-pay, they will STILL push their inferior product and defile the Amiga name.
I doubt the new announcement will sound any better than any of the previous announcements.
We've already seen how bad C=USA's products are. What more do we need?
We don't hate C=USA just for the pleasure of hating. We hate them because they are attacking the fundamentals of our favourite OS, and gloating about it on our forums.
Personally, I'd be more than happy if there were never another thread about C=USA. I'd be even happier if they went out of business. The only thing that would give me greater pleasure would be AInc's bankruptcy.
By the way, I never liked the wedge cases, so if your big announcement involves putting a Linux PC in a wedge case, there are three reasons already that I don't even want to hear about it. Four, if you include the fact that the announcement comes from C=USA.
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@ Dammy:
I'm really getting tired of your smug, holier-than-thou attitude sprinkled with elitism. It is fair to say that I'm using my full restraint to keep from banning you for a week.
Most of the replies about this news have been fair considering CUSA's track record.
I'm also sure CUSA just loves having you trying to drive in a wedge again and attempting to polarize the community but making "us" and "them" statements.
CUSA SEEMS to be trying to do something good for the community and your venom is SURE helping their cause!
[Reads TOS] Hrmmm could you point out where being "smug, holier-than-thou attitude sprinkled with elitism" is against TOS? I must have missed it. :(
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Looks like making j-golden a moderator was a mistake.
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So you are saying Commodore has no right to be talked about on the front page anymore?
There is no money in bickering. If you like money, withdraw, and establish your new business.
Having 'rights' on obscure forums won't generate sales, but next years, and future search engine results pointing to this silly feud, will, most certainly, hurt them.
How many minutes a day, do you wish to invest in diminishing your own prosperity?
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Looks like making j-golden a moderator was a mistake.
I note that you only complain when it's a CUSA zealot getting reprimanded... J-Golden has been a mod for how long, and you're only just griping now? Figures.
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I note that you only complain when it's a CUSA zealot getting reprimanded... J-Golden has been a mod for how long, and you're only just griping now? Figures.
That's a complete load. In all the years I've been on this site I believe this is the first time I've dropped a negative comment about a mod here.
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Nah, they'll run MS Windows....
Commodore OS is a hacked old Mint version
@CUSA
After all this hype, I hope that the announcement will be for something more than a Commodore Amiga branded PC running Linux.
And no, a custom wedge shaped case is not going to make it any better.
When can we expect to see this announcement?
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@ Dammy:
I'm really getting tired of your smug, holier-than-thou attitude sprinkled with elitism. It is fair to say that I'm using my full restraint to keep from banning you for a week.
Most of the replies about this news have been fair considering CUSA's track record.
I'm also sure CUSA just loves having you trying to drive in a wedge again and attempting to polarize the community but making "us" and "them" statements.
CUSA SEEMS to be trying to do something good for the community and your venom is SURE helping their cause!
It is good to see moderators participating, or doing their jobs.
Please moderate equally against all offenders in threads where the sole purpose of their posts is to bait, disrupt, name call, post off topic about past history that has nothing to do with the current thread, and generally make threads like this one useless to the majority of silent members here that just want to read what ever news is being offered and let the thread scroll off the front page.
Please do your job and do it evenly. If you don't know what I am talking about, I can provide dozens if not hundreds of examples, but would rather not waste my time cutting and pasting for something I am sure you are well aware of already.
It has been proven more than once in the past with polls here that the majority of members that bothered to vote here still want to see news (legitimate news) from CUSA posted on this site. But I can guarantee you that the majority of the members here are also sick of seeing all the bickering back and forth between the supporters and haters of CUSA that pollutes every single thread that has any mention of CUSA in it, even when the thread is not about CUSA.
I am no fan of CUSA and they have no products that I am even slightly interested in purchasing, but I have no idea what they will do with the Amiga name in the future and I want to know what is done, so I continue to read most threads that contain info from or on CUSA.
Please clean this place up!
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It has been proven more than once in the past with polls here that the majority of members that bothered to vote here still want to see news (legitimate news) from CUSA posted on this site.
As one of the voters thereon, I'd like to note that there's a big difference between not thinking that a blanket ban on CUSA discussion is a good idea and wanting people to keep copypasting every decree issued forth from Barry's keyboard.
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I am anti censorship, here and elsewhere - and that applies to C-USA as well. I am also likely one of the most vocal of what they call "haters" in their terms. Guys that point blank ask questions, virtually 100% of them have gone entirely unanswered. Some of said questions asked or other criticisms, we got threatened via PM's for our troubles. PM's were reported to mods here, did nothing at all. The vehemence your "cause" gets on virtually all independent fan followed Amiga sites is well earned due to your treatment of the community. Atrocious personal behavior, and that's not even scratching at the business/PR aspects. "Insult them, ignore or threaten them if they ask questions - that will make them buy!!!11!!!!" is not working. Be civil, sane - or go away, before even more people take it upon themselves to leave this place for elsewhere. I have no rooted dislike of C-USA themselves, and they deserve to post relevant news here like anyone else. I am against elitist and insulting, disruptive fanboys being ignorant to anyone that doesn't agree with them and their Holy Aura view of "The Company" here, though.
I an open to anyone posting newsworthy "news" here, and I am not damning C-USA as a whole for the spam. When they re invent the wheel, I'll be the first one here gladly reading about the innovations they are marketing. It's supposed to be big, you know!
It's one, maybe 2 at best - of their fanboys that seems to think that every time "The Company" squeaks out a muffled fart, we're "saved".
Dammy is the worst of the worst for this, and he is driving people away knowingly from A.org, pushing an agenda - using an inflammatory tone almost always in his posts. 10,000 time worse than anything Franko ever spewed - at least he was a helpful, knowledgeable type of troll at ground level, old Franko. Yes, people are beginning to avoid this place outright because he (Dammy) has gone unchecked in his passing opinions off as "fact", only to counter with complete hostility if you pose polite questions. Should you counter his opinion in a civil manner, you are either insulted or your valid questions are ignored. If you are going to cram views down throats Dammy, answer questions - you are doing so much PR harm to the company you are going to bat for it is simply hysterical. Contributing nothing to the real Amiga community other than elitism and flames via agendas. Dammy, if I was Leo or Barry, I'd pay you to never utter the words "Commodore USA" again on any forums, lol. No skin off me, I can follow other sites that don't essentially encourage abuse, free advertising in the guise of "news". Money I'll save in the end by not donating to the "Kitty" to listen to weird infighting based on personal agendas on A.org.
Said it a few years ago when I saw the start of this mess - their products are not for me. I'm fine with that. I am also fine with the fact that if they have open season to praise said products here via non news "news" spamming, the community should be able to ask questions and have them answered. You know, like a real adult style conversation rather than just Dammy not liking what he hears and calling everyone ****heads.
And while they continue to forcefeed you their products here for free, I might as well indulge them and you guys can take a look at their 2 adverts from their $30 million ad budget/ad agency. It's almost like I've seen ads like that before... Yeah, I did. Apple. 1988.
http://www.koreykay.com/BandB/Zb_savin.html
http://www.koreykay.com/BandB/comm2.html
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This makes the decision to jump to morphos and apple hardware that much easier.
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So did I pay for membership to this web site (it came up with I was paying discreetfx) when in fact it is Commodore USA that owns this site?
Also will they try and take my domain away from me, www.amigaformat.com (http://www.amigaformat.com)
I hope not (nothing hosted......yet) :-)
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Maybe the soap opera keeps some interested. I have to admit I check here to see whats the latest drama.
Some of the soap opera...Its definitely kept me interested in amiga goings on I suppose.
As far as CUSA I don't think they ever can recover from their past.
Its hard to forgive a "company" that is based on lies, half truths, website text stolen from apple, fake pictures, all the announcements of new products that never see the light of day, stickers slapped on existing products, claims of a 30 million dollar advertising budget, insulting every other amiga camp, stolen website graphics, claims of their products in retail stores that never become truth, claims they will make 25,000$ workstations with an amiga badge that never materialize as real products and so much more.
If they just shut up, stop lying, stop running on hype and deliver real products instead of hype and lies, people could evaluate and base their opinions on what they produce (instead of basing your opinion on their long list of bull****) maybe they would garner better support from retro fans and amiga enthusiasts.
The Amiga curse is in full effect on them. They are like the perfect continuation of a long list of Amiga grave robbers making wild claims and never delivering anything of any real value to people who care about Amiga.
To me, it just appears to be some guy with some money who is paying to fuel some fantasy that he is the owner of a company he once respected and liked in his younger years, and he's doing a horrible job of it so far.
AND I think the legal stuff with amiga is a real joke. I still think everyone who cares about amiga should make and start selling their own version of a new commodore amiga, put the boingball, checkmark and Commdore AMIGA logo on it and lets see if they can really claim ownership of those things and prove it.
Barry, Silly Billy and all the other amiga grave robbers would bankrupt themselves trying to prove ownership, when the real truth is they can't.
So far, no one has ever proven in court they own roms, logos, trademarks, or anything else related to amiga. What especially AINC does not want you to know is that since they illegally transferred "assets" to a shell to avoid paying back investors (a criminal act) they can not continue to profit from that criminal act, ask any attorney. Yet they have for years and we've let them.
The truth is they can't really prove ownership of anything. Just like cloanto can't really prove why it has been robbing the amiga community for years for roms that are 15+ years old now that no one really owns.
And we all just let the amiga grave robbers continue to try and rob people for a history and a legacy that WE the users should really own.
Meanwhile, there are worthwhile projects like AROS, Icaros, AEROS, IMICA,MORPHOS, Netami, minimig/minimigaga and so on being developed by people who obviously have a real passion for amiga. They can't use the amiga name, boingball or whatever because the amiga grave robbers won't let them.
Yeah that makes sense...
Steven
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Infidels will convert or face eternal guru meditation!
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@ digitex
still posting this stuff here after all the comments you made about the Amiga community:confused:
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So then you are going to be celebrating with us then when the official news is announced! Excellent, I was hoping once you gave up on the hate, you would be a solid C=USA supporter.
For those people, since you evidently are going to be celebrating with us on the great C=USA news you are not are apart of them, are going to be hating life as well as C=USA after this announcement until they too can accept the futility of hating the inevitable.
No Dammy, no. I don't hate CUSA I despise their behaviour and what they have done in the past. Why do you need me to become a solid CUSA supporter?
When the announcement arrives I'll be leaving the scene after 30 years! To you, CUSA and its followers' delight :)
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I agreee... If the rumors that they have also bought amiga.org are true... Myself and most others will be leaving for amigaworld or other options leaving this place to be an internet ghosttown. Much like cusa.org or whatever they have now if you look at it that proves that they sold maybe 100 computers,
to uninformed dumbasses.
I hope the rumors are not true.
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I agreee... If the rumors that they have also bought amiga.org are true... Myself and most others will be leaving for amigaworld or other options leaving this place to be an internet ghosttown. Much like cusa.org or whatever they have now if you look at it that proves that they sold maybe 100 computers,
to uninformed dumbasses.
I hope the rumors are not true.
+1 ...sad but true:madashell:
aw.net, amigans.net, lemonamiga.com, eab but this place never again :afro:
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Egad! If that is true this place is going to turn into a ghost town with Dammy talking to himself. I already have accounts setup at EAB, AW.net, & Morphzone if this is the case.....
I agreee... If the rumors that they have also bought amiga.org are true... Myself and most others will be leaving for amigaworld or other options leaving this place to be an internet ghosttown. Much like cusa.org or whatever they have now if you look at it that proves that they sold maybe 100 computers,
to uninformed dumbasses.
I hope the rumors are not true.
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I agreee... If the rumors that they have also bought amiga.org are true... Myself and most others will be leaving for amigaworld or other options leaving this place to be an internet ghosttown.
Wait, wait, is that what this was about? Because if that turns out to be true, you bet your life I'm leaving this place.
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I agreee... If the rumors that they have also bought amiga.org are true... Myself and most others will be leaving for amigaworld or other options leaving this place to be an internet ghosttown. Much like cusa.org or whatever they have now if you look at it that proves that they sold maybe 100 computers,
to uninformed dumbasses.
I hope the rumors are not true.
Can someone at DiscreetFX confirm or deny these rumours?
If this is the case I'm out of here.
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Can someone at DiscreetFX confirm or deny these rumours?
If this is the case I'm out of here.
Well it would be one way for Barry to delete the accounts of people he's sent nasty PMs to. Make sure you've saved them if you've got some. I have. I'm sure they'll come in useful in the near future. ;)
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I find this speculation kinda doubtful, since they already have Commodore-Amiga.org, but, never say "never" I guess...
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As one of the voters thereon, I'd like to note that there's a big difference between not thinking that a blanket ban on CUSA discussion is a good idea and wanting people to keep copypasting every decree issued forth from Barry's keyboard.
Your over exaggeration has little to do with what I just posted and does not excuse the behavior that goes on here every day by children that can't control their feelings toward CUSA.
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Stay tuned for the further adventures of Commodore USA.....and btw, this news has NOTHING to do with our major announcements that will be forthcoming shortly.
Barry
Famous part of all times. Every announcement has to be followed by next big announcement that has nothing to do ...
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News from digitex via http://www.commodore-amiga.org/
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/11229-commodore-trademark-has-a-new-daddy--#11229
(News article from site reprinted below for your convenience)
After months of hard work and international legal filings, I am thrilled to finally announce that Commodore Holdings (C Holdings), which is the corporate entity that owns and holds the trademark IP "Commodore" is no longer a part of or a division of Asiarim Corp. The stock in Commodore Holdings was pledged as collateral years ago, and 100% ownership of that company is now in the hands of a new group (wonder who that can be?). Additionally, a ruling came down this afternoon from the Netherlands court that has formally put Commodore Licensing B.V. into involuntary bankruptcy. This bankruptcy proceeding was initiated by this same group. Asiarim and whatever else is left of it will shortly be following suit. The Netherlands court will be appointing a receiver for the bankrupt parties within the next day or two.
Stay tuned for the further adventures of Commodore USA.....and btw, this news has NOTHING to do with our major announcements that will be forthcoming shortly.
Happy New Year everyone. I wish each and every one of you, our customers, supporters and forum members, health and happiness in 2012.
Barry
hows someone going broke good news you are cynlical bunch arent you.
As far as i remember that private company had nothing to do with amiga
just used the commodore brand name hows this news for the amiga
Thats like saying good news the old mini back Morris brand name is comming back
Oh yeah they already did that called the new bmw mini we put morris badge on it that fix it , hay its got huge wheels and like twice the size .. shhh no one will notice
Just details hehe
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Maybe the soap opera keeps some interested. I have to admit I check here to see whats the latest drama.
Some of the soap opera...Its definitely kept me interested in amiga goings on I suppose.
As far as CUSA I don't think they ever can recover from their past.
Its hard to forgive a "company" that is based on lies, half truths, website text stolen from apple, fake pictures, all the announcements of new products that never see the light of day, stickers slapped on existing products, claims of a 30 million dollar advertising budget, insulting every other amiga camp, stolen website graphics, claims of their products in retail stores that never become truth, claims they will make 25,000$ workstations with an amiga badge that never materialize as real products and so much more.
If they just shut up, stop lying, stop running on hype and deliver real products instead of hype and lies, people could evaluate and base their opinions on what they produce (instead of basing your opinion on their long list of bull****) maybe they would garner better support from retro fans and amiga enthusiasts.
The Amiga curse is in full effect on them. They are like the perfect continuation of a long list of Amiga grave robbers making wild claims and never delivering anything of any real value to people who care about Amiga.
To me, it just appears to be some guy with some money who is paying to fuel some fantasy that he is the owner of a company he once respected and liked in his younger years, and he's doing a horrible job of it so far.
AND I think the legal stuff with amiga is a real joke. I still think everyone who cares about amiga should make and start selling their own version of a new commodore amiga, put the boingball, checkmark and Commdore AMIGA logo on it and lets see if they can really claim ownership of those things and prove it.
Barry, Silly Billy and all the other amiga grave robbers would bankrupt themselves trying to prove ownership, when the real truth is they can't.
So far, no one has ever proven in court they own roms, logos, trademarks, or anything else related to amiga. What especially AINC does not want you to know is that since they illegally transferred "assets" to a shell to avoid paying back investors (a criminal act) they can not continue to profit from that criminal act, ask any attorney. Yet they have for years and we've let them.
The truth is they can't really prove ownership of anything. Just like cloanto can't really prove why it has been robbing the amiga community for years for roms that are 15+ years old now that no one really owns.
And we all just let the amiga grave robbers continue to try and rob people for a history and a legacy that WE the users should really own.
Meanwhile, there are worthwhile projects like AROS, Icaros, AEROS, IMICA,MORPHOS, Netami, minimig/minimigaga and so on being developed by people who obviously have a real passion for amiga. They can't use the amiga name, boingball or whatever because the amiga grave robbers won't let them.
Yeah that makes sense...
Steven
all all can be said in one sentance
Those that Talk the talk dont listen to them the ones in background doing the work
and getting on with the job hmmm wonder who that chould be lives not far from here
where i live .. and you have the other lot ... talk is cheap action speak lounder than words
my friends, franko is good man all am going to say
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TIC/Check mark
Good luck defending that one, it was abandoned a _long_ time ago.
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Good luck defending that one, it was abandoned a _long_ time ago.
URL if you have one handy.
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URL if you have one handy.
There is no URL, as the checkmark never was a registered trademark. But it's still a trademark that you can defend, provided you actually use it in your products.
Here's a challenge for you, dammy: What was the last time, the checkmark was used in a product? (everybody: It's a challenge for dammy, please let him answer this one).
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There is no URL, as the checkmark never was a registered trademark. But it's still a trademark that you can defend, provided you actually use it in your products.
Here's a challenge for you, dammy: What was the last time, the checkmark was used in a product? (everybody: It's a challenge for dammy, please let him answer this one).
Common Law still applies, just makes it tougher to defend is all.
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If it's never been a registered trademark, then the first company to register it gets it....
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Common Law still applies, just makes it tougher to defend is all.
That's a non-answer, dammy. Here's some food for thought:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademarks#Maintaining_rights
Note the terms "five years" and "abandonment". I'm with Kolla here: "Good luck defending that one" - unless, of course, the trademark was registered and I simply missed it. Still waiting for an answer from Barry on that one. He should know.
And you seemed to have missed the second part of my posting, so let me repeat it here:
Here's a challenge for you, dammy: What was the last time the checkmark was used in a product?
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Oh yes, we need some clarification on that amiga.org rumour.
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That's a non-answer, dammy.
Yes it is a answer. You may not like it, but that is your problem.
http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426712
And you seemed to have missed the second part of my posting, so let me repeat it here:
No, I didn't miss it. I just don't care.
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Yes it is a answer. You may not like it, but that is your problem.
http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp#_Toc275426712
We all know that one can defend non-registered trademarks, I already acknowledged that three days ago.
But to be defendable, it has to be in active use - that's why I pointed you to the Wikipedia article, which says "five years". I'm all interested in more precise documentation, but your above link is useless in this context.
No, I didn't miss it. I just don't care.
If you don't care, why do you make claims about AInc/CUSA being able to defend it? To determine if they are able to defend it, you need to know the mark's last use in commerce.
So, once again: If it's not registered and you don't know when it was last used commercially, on what grounds do you claim that anybody owns enforcable rights regarding this mark?
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We all know that one can defend non-registered trademarks, I already acknowledged that three days ago.
So why are you stuck on this subject then?
But to be defendable, it has to be in active use - that's why I pointed you to the Wikipedia article, which says "five years". I'm all interested in more precise documentation, but your above link is useless in this context.
Why would I trust Wiki for a legal opinion?
If you don't care, why do you make claims about AInc/CUSA being able to defend it? To determine if they are able to defend it, you need to know the mark's last use in commerce.
So, once again: If it's not registered and you don't know when it was last used commercially, on what grounds do you claim that anybody owns enforcable rights regarding this mark?
Then do as you wish, I don't have a pony in that race. That would be up to C=USA and it's legal department to deal with and I'm pretty confident C=USA won't give an inch with out a court battle. You want to risk that, fine by me, Wal-Mart has tons of popcorn on the shelves.
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So why are you stuck on this subject then?
Because I actually care about the topic? You're the one who doesn't ("I don't care").
That would be up to C=USA and it's legal department to deal with and I'm pretty confident C=USA won't give an inch with out a court battle.
You mean the same "legal department" who told Barry that the checkmark and the letter "A" are registered trademarks? I'd love to see this "legal department" perform in a "court battle".
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If we REALLY think about it, the checkmark is owned by the Amiga community :)
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Then do as you wish, I don't have a pony in that race. That would be up to C=USA and it's legal department to deal with and I'm pretty confident C=USA won't give an inch with out a court battle. You want to risk that, fine by me, Wal-Mart has tons of popcorn on the shelves.
Oh yes, tremble before big bad Barry! He'll destroy us, man, like Stone Cold Steve Austin in a court of law-wrestling defending that unregistered trademark!
Wal-Mart popcorn = what Barry can afford after spending $30 mil advertising and God knows how much development/manufacturing funds on something like twelve people bought.
(P.S. Quick, someone make a series of checkmark shirts on Cafepress and then register the trademark based on that.)
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Why would I trust Wiki for a legal opinion?
Why would we trust someone who posts pictures of a factory in Germany?
Barry's "Legal advice" is probably some divorce lawyer who hangs out at the same golf club as he does.
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Why would we trust someone who posts pictures of a factory in Germany?
Well, contrary to popular belief we actually DO have some factories left here. ;-)
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Well, contrary to popular belief we actually DO have some factories left here. ;-)
LOL. That wasn't quite what I meant... :D
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Oh yes, we need some clarification on that amiga.org rumour.
Amiga.org is owned by ...
What is this ? ...
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All i can say is LMAO.
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This makes the decision to jump to morphos and apple hardware that much easier.
says who:afro: I've got no issues with MOS but no apple computers allowed in my house..old or new
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All i can say is LMAO.
all doing snowman maker... lol...
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All i can say is LMAO.
Well I LOLed :)
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Why would we trust someone who posts pictures of a factory in Germany?
Barry's "Legal advice" is probably some divorce lawyer who hangs out at the same golf club as he does.
I hope it's a better "legal team" than the ones who cut & pasted a letter from Apple's site to threaten OSNews with.
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I hope it's a better "legal team" than the ones who cut & pasted a letter from Apple's site to threaten OSNews with.
oh. it's much better (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=32330&forum=2) than that. :lol:
-- eliyahu
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So the trademarks are now officially owned by Nicholas then? This is excellent news! Thank goodness for that, someone we can actually trust for once.
:lol:
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[Reads TOS] Hrmmm could you point out where being "smug, holier-than-thou attitude sprinkled with elitism" is against TOS? I must have missed it. :(
It isn't. And neither is expressing your opinion provided that you don't violate the TOS itself. I think it's a bit unfair to jump on J Golden for this, it's not as if he actually banned anybody; he merely expressed his opinion that Dammy's posts were deliberately divisive.
What he probably doesn't realise is that Dammy has been around a long time and when he gets behind something, he does tend to do so fully and without reservation. Today it's CUSA which has not had the best of beginnings with the amiga community and so his cheerleading naturally stirs up resentment. However, I don't think that's necessarily intentional. After all, I can recall a time when it was AROS, rather than CUSA, that he was behind with more or less the same level of enthusiasm.
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From the man who illegally put C= logo stickers on rubbish Chinese PC in a keyboard machines 'just to clarify who does own the copyright' I am pretty sure he is doing this to see if anyone rears their ugly head and claims the copyright. We all know what a minefield this whole thing is.
As stated the boing ball is not a registered trademark except maybe to the original programmers from 1984/85 who created it who were not owned by Commodore then. The tick was on the original A1000 so maybe. I don't know. I'm guessing it's all more of Barry's mind games/pathetic tactics.
Even if it was true you can't stop other people using existing casings out there to make them into entirely new/different architecture machines, even as a basis for a business anyway :)
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It isn't. And neither is expressing your opinion provided that you don't violate the TOS itself. I think it's a bit unfair to jump on J Golden for this, it's not as if he actually banned anybody; he merely expressed his opinion that Dammy's posts were deliberately divisive.
Unfortunately, I don't agree with this, Karlos. As a moderator, he needs to show a little more even handedness. If he ever does "moderate" someone, actions like the above will call his decisions into question.
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Unfortunately, I don't agree with this, Karlos. As a moderator, he needs to show a little more even handedness. If he ever does "moderate" someone, actions like the above will call his decisions into question.
Moderators are still entitled to opinions, even if they should know better when and how to word them.
As for the crux of your argument, in my experience, moderator decisions are always called into question on forums like this, no matter how even-handed you try to be.
If we could all try to keep a bit more civil whenever our favourite pet hate subject crops up, we'd all get on fine.
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Moderators are still entitled to opinions, even if they should know better when and how to word them.
As for the crux of your argument, in my experience, moderator decisions are always called into question on forums like this, no matter how even-handed you try to be.
If we could all try to keep a bit more civil whenever our favourite pet hate subject crops up, we'd all get on fine.
Surely deliberate "trolling" is against the rules.
If so, it is easy to class Dammy's continuing posts praising C-USA as the Second Coming while ignoring their past actions as a deliberate attempt to provoke the members of Amiga.org.
All Golden was doing was pointing this out, so his actions were well within what I would expect from the moderation staff.
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http://technologizer.com/2012/01/04/before-pcs-there-were-digital-watches/
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http://technologizer.com/2012/01/04/before-pcs-there-were-digital-watches/
There’s even a modern-day Commodore selling a Intel-based Commodore 64. It would have every right to start hawking watches, I suppose. But unless its timepieces, like my Time Master, are custom-designed products based on the company’s own technologies and components, I won’t be tempted. We Commodore watch owners, you see, tend to be kind of snobbish.
:lol:
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Hah, nice. Good to know that some people in the tech press still know how to spot a poser ;D
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Man I would love one of them. I love the way the red LED's look.
Actually I know this is off topic but do those digits look more like Vacuum fluorescent displays to you rather than LED's?
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Surely deliberate "trolling" is against the rules.
If so, it is easy to class Dammy's continuing posts praising C-USA as the Second Coming while ignoring their past actions as a deliberate attempt to provoke the members of Amiga.org.
That's quite a leap, classing Dammy's post as trolling. Even Karlos offered an explanation for them as something other than that.
The real problem here is that most of the (extreme) CUSA haters are so blinded by their hate that if CUSA so muched as farted, they'd damn Barry for the destruction of the Earth from CUSA-caused global warming.
Most of these so-called horrific actions that have heretofore been "commited" by CUSA any moderate person would chalk up to mistakes, foolishness or simple human failings... But not CUSA, no, Barry is far worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao Tse Tung combined! :rolleyes:
And for this Dammy is trolling? Gimmee a break. I'm no CUSA lover and I agree that Dammy's enthusiasm can be somewhat blind but I'm not so blinded by hatred that I exagerate everything he or anyone else does to defend CUSA just so I can justify my own hatred.
[Puts on flame-proof suit]
@ Karlos:
Moderators are still entitled to opinions, even if they should know better when and how to word them.
Agreed. And that's my only concern regarding JGolden's opinion. However, this really was over the line: It is fair to say that I'm using my full restraint to keep from banning you for a week.
Why? Because Dammy doesn't agree with the haters? I don't agree with the haters and I don't agree with Dammy. I certainly wouldn't have threatened to ban him. I would have asked Dammy to cool it, but I'd also ask the haters to cool it too.
As for the crux of your argument, in my experience, moderator decisions are always called into question on forums like this, no matter how even-handed you try to be.
Sorry, Karlos, I'm not trying to be disagreeable here, but two wrongs don't make a right. As you've already stated, JGolden should have been a little more careful in stating his opinion. That's my only beef. I simply thought his response was tacky. VERY tacky, but tacky, just the same...
If we could all try to keep a bit more civil whenever our favourite pet hate subject crops up, we'd all get on fine.
Yep. Which is why all moderators should be asking BOTH sides to moderate and not taking one side over the other...
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Can I be the first to make a Nazi reference please. There, done.
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Too late! :p
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Most of these so-called horrific actions that have heretofore been "commited" by CUSA any moderate person would chalk up to mistakes, foolishness or simple human failings... But not CUSA, no, Barry is far worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao Tse Tung combined! :rolleyes:
Look, I'll agree with the premise that some of the CUSA haters overstate the case. But it's not as though there aren't grounds for grievance. The whole ideological issue of putting PC clone parts in a reproduction case and selling it as the same thing (oh, sorry, the same thingx) or a successor to/revival of is a touchy subject to begin with, and the fact that the company's response, as expressed by both its key members, is "you're stupid for disagreeing, also I'm going to call you a loser for even caring, now kiss my feet, peons" didn't help things one bit.
And add to that the generally lackluster design and ridiculous pricing of the actual product, and a whole host of claims by the company that turned out to either be exaggerated or wholly false but have been consistently ignored in discussion with company representatives...this might be "human failings" in a dictionary-definition sense, but unless you have some plan for replacing Barry and his underlings with robots, human failings = failings in a company made up of humans. It's not just some little handful of foibles, it raises some pretty serious questions about the company as a whole.
Why? Because Dammy doesn't agree with the haters?
No, because he's being (diplomatically speaking) a smarmy, obnoxious twit about it. That is, admittedly, a subjective judgement, but subjective judgement is exactly what mods are for, otherwise you could run a forum based on a set of sophisticated word filters. Lots of forums allow moderators to hand out cooldown temp-bans when a member is being annoying but not warranting a more serious mod action.
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That's quite a leap, classing Dammy's post as trolling. Even Karlos offered an explanation for them as something other than that.
The real problem here is that most of the (extreme) CUSA haters are so blinded by their hate that if CUSA so muched as farted, they'd damn Barry for the destruction of the Earth from CUSA-caused global warming.
Most of these so-called horrific actions that have heretofore been "commited" by CUSA any moderate person would chalk up to mistakes, foolishness or simple human failings... But not CUSA, no, Barry is far worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao Tse Tung combined! :rolleyes:
And for this Dammy is trolling? Gimmee a break. I'm no CUSA lover and I agree that Dammy's enthusiasm can be somewhat blind but I'm not so blinded by hatred that I exagerate everything he or anyone else does to defend CUSA just so I can justify my own hatred.
[Puts on flame-proof suit]
@ Karlos:
Agreed. And that's my only concern regarding JGolden's opinion. However, this really was over the line:
Why? Because Dammy doesn't agree with the haters? I don't agree with the haters and I don't agree with Dammy. I certainly wouldn't have threatened to ban him. I would have asked Dammy to cool it, but I'd also ask the haters to cool it too.
Sorry, Karlos, I'm not trying to be disagreeable here, but two wrongs don't make a right. As you've already stated, JGolden should have been a little more careful in stating his opinion. That's my only beef. I simply thought his response was tacky. VERY tacky, but tacky, just the same...
Yep. Which is why all moderators should be asking BOTH sides to moderate and not taking one side over the other...
+1,000,000
I am afraid we are horribly outnumbered though and no one will listen to reason, unless the silent majority start chipping in and asking for the disruptive dozen to cool it. Then maybe the moderators will start doing more to cool off the hot heads.
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+1,000,000
I am afraid we are horribly outnumbered though and no one will listen to reason, unless the silent majority start chipping in and asking for the disruptive dozen to cool it. Then maybe the moderators will start doing more to cool off the hot heads.
You really worry me with your ignorance of the facts.
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Sorry all, I've been sick and loaded down with work and some how missed all the attention my post made. Let me take this time to be clear.
CUSA is a business. They, including Barry, have made some poor decisions and remarks that could and should be classified as unprofessional. As far as I can see they are trying to put that behind them with their offer to the Amiga community. Whether it takes fight or not is not the point. I feel they are earnestly trying to offer the olive branch of peace and turn over a new leaf and be a strong supporter in the Amiga Community.
Dammy is not. Most of the comments on the post CUSA put up about this offer were neutral (read wait and see) to mildly positive. Instead of trying to help rally support to this new proposition, Dammy instead attacks and demeans people. He refused the fact that some of the negatively minded people were getting warmed over by this new move and continued to call other members out for past posts. All this does is cause unneeded contention and hurt CUSA's cause rather than help.
THIS is why I gave Dammy his warning; his wake up call that what he was doing was only hurting the very thing he was trying to defend. I'm sure if I really wanted to I could dig up and present enough information to get Dammy kicked but that was not the point of my post.
Did I use the best method? Are people going to be offended? Will I get criticized? I'd be lying if I said I didn't care at all about the answers to these questions, but at the same time I'm going to keep trying to moderate in ways that I deem appropriate.
Haters will hate,
Lovers will love,
Trolls will troll,
Mods will moderate.
Now for a heavy dose on Nyquil to dream of large women in jungle safari bikinis...
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@amigadave. For the last week or so you have been constantly criticizing both the moderators and the members for their behaviour. If you feel so strongly about it why not become a moderator yourself? As far as i know there is only JGolden, Pyromania, Karlos and Argo. That's only 3 mods (i think Karlos and Argo are the same person) and others like Slvrdragon are never here anyway. You are considering being a mod on AW.net and are campaigning for it on Morphzone. What's wrong, are we not good enough for you?
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You really worry me with your ignorance of the facts.
And what facts would those be?
I am just commenting on what I see as destructive to this forum site and as far as I can tell, the CUSA haters are doing more harm than good. In fact, CUSA wouldn't get half the attention it does here if it weren't for the children that can't control themselves and feel compelled to comment negatively in every thread that even mentions CUSA instead of just letting the topic scroll into oblivion where it belongs.
I am well aware of CUSA's past transgressions and mistakes. I am more keenly aware of the constant stream of whining and childish behavior that goes on here in opposition to CUSA.
The previous actions of CUSA don't justify the continuing crap that is posted here EVERYDAY! Grow up!
@Kesa,
First I have only made one observation (make it two if you want to count my questions to the owner of A.org thread) that the moderation does not seem balanced. Secondly, I don't see A.org advertising for new or additional moderators. If they did, I would probably never get chosen here as my views don't align with all the children who have taken over this site.
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In fact, CUSA wouldn't get half the attention it does here
CUSA actually needs to grab as much attention as it can, because that's the only thing it's got going for itself. Their first Amiga related announcements are 1.5 years old, and there's still no sign of product, no concept designs, no roadmap, no defined target audience - nothing.
So far, all they have is a trademark and the attention it creates. Hence there's announcement after announcement, 'offers' to the community, slight stabs at the competition that are guaranteed to provoke arguments ("Workbench 5"?) and attempts to create a bit of a hype ("photos of our factory", "cooperation with disney").
The worst thing that can happen to them is that their 15 minutes of fame are over before they have a product. Hence they need to make as much noise as possible. Yes, the 'haters' love to bash them, endlessly. But why don't you ask CUSA to shut up until they can deliver?
I am well aware of CUSA's past transgressions and mistakes. The previous actions of CUSA don't justify the continuing crap that is posted here EVERYDAY! Grow up!
Why "past" mistakes? In this very thread, Barry makes outrageous (i.e. mostly bogus) claims about what trademark he owns and tells us that he is now "entitled to enforce the Amiga trademark IP". That's the kind of stuff that generates heated debate - which is exactly why digitex posted it here. And he's doing that after telling us for a year that we're not his target audience anyway.
That's happening right now, why are you talking about "previous actions"?
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And what facts would those be?
Thank you for confirming the problem.
The facts have been "in your face" since they first appeared and yet you can't acknowledge them.
I'm beginning to worry that this level of ignorance you display is deliberate. Would you mind clarifying your relationship with C-USA just to put my mind at rest? Are you in regular contact privately with C-USA staff? Are you therefore actually assisting them on the forums?
I am just commenting on what I see as destructive to this forum site and as far as I can tell, the CUSA haters are doing more harm than good. In fact, CUSA wouldn't get half the attention it does here if it weren't for the children that can't control themselves and feel compelled to comment negatively in every thread that even mentions CUSA instead of just letting the topic scroll into oblivion where it belongs.
There you go again. What are these "C-USA Haters" you speak of? I think you mean the victims of personal attacks by C-USA or those who dare to point out any irregularities in their posts.
Who is pulling your strings?
I am well aware of CUSA's past transgressions and mistakes. I am more keenly aware of the constant stream of whining and childish behavior that goes on here in opposition to CUSA.
Yet you ignore the "constant stream of whining and childish behavior that goes on here" by C-USA staff. Why is this?
The previous actions of CUSA don't justify the continuing crap that is posted here EVERYDAY! Grow up!
I suggest you grow up little man. What's your agenda at AmigaWorld.net? Looking forward to banning me there?
You insult us by calling us "children" and "haters" while your master laughs into his wallet.
Don't try and take the moral high ground, you're 6' under and still digging.
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I am afraid we are horribly outnumbered though and no one will listen to reason, unless the silent majority start chipping in and asking for the disruptive dozen to cool it.
So your line of thinking goes something like this: "Not enough people posting agree with me, but of course I'm right so there must be more people who don't post who agree with me than those who do post"
There is no "silent majority".
@Darrin,
After reading some of Amigadave's more recent posts I think he's just some kind of control freak - and I don't mean self-control.
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So your line of thinking goes something like this: "Not enough people posting agree with me, but of course I'm right so there must be more people who don't post who agree with me than those who do post"
There is no "silent majority".
@Darrin,
After reading some of Amigadave's more recent posts I think he's just some kind of control freak - and I don't mean self-control.
I do worry at times.
I know I went through my more "militant" phase many years ago (the less said about my posts on ANN the better), but, as you point out, this whole "I'm right and everyone else is a ****" attitude sucks.
You post here a lot and I don't agree with everything you post, but you'll be hard pushed to find me attacking you for it because you state your position quite clearly and back it up with your personal opinions.
Dave's one-sided attacks on "haters" just because they disagree with his personal agenda is a worrying stance for a would-be moderator to be taking. It's a shame, because Dave is a really nice guy on other subjects (probably because I don't disagree with him on other subjects).
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So your line of thinking goes something like this: "Not enough people posting agree with me, but of course I'm right so there must be more people who don't post who agree with me than those who do post"
Wrong! I am not trying to prove who is right and who is wrong on the topic of is CUSA good or bad for our community. I am just sick of all the hate mail that gets posted here and wish that it would stop so more productive things could be concentrated on instead. I guarantee that if the attacks and snide remarks and bad jokes about CUSA were aimed at any other company or person, they would most likely not be tolerated here or on any other forum site, but because it is about CUSA and Barry, it has not been challenged by more than a few people and the only reason I challenge it is because it does nothing positive for this community.
The CUSA haters can go on hating all they want, but do they have to share it here on this site every day? According to them CUSA should not even be talked about here, as it has nothing to do with the "Real" Amiga heritage.
There is no "silent majority".
I disagree. I believe that there are very many members on this site that do not post their opinions because they do not wish to suffer the wrath of the few most vocal members who are so experienced at tearing apart other's posts and ridiculing people in public. I am not afraid of speaking my mind when I think something is wrong. You don't have to agree with me, but I also do not have to stop voicing my opinions, just because you make disrespectful assertions about my character or my personality. I try not to attack people, but I do attack some of their behavior, when I think it is wrong.
@Darrin,
After reading some of Amigadave's more recent posts I think he's just some kind of control freak - and I don't mean self-control.
If you want to get into a discussion about lack of self control, there are many other members here you should include (and maybe look in a mirror).
You will be happy to know that I have had enough of this topic, so will probably not be responding to much after this post. It is a waste of my time.
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Look, I'll agree with the premise that some of the CUSA haters overstate the case. But it's not as though there aren't grounds for grievance. The whole ideological issue of putting PC clone parts in a reproduction case and selling it as the same thing (oh, sorry, the same thingx) or a successor to/revival of is a touchy subject to begin with,
And I'm one of those people. I have stated repeatedly, that if they don't produce something Amiga-like then don't call it Amiga. But here's the difference between myself and some others: it bothers me. It doesn't anger me, it only bothers me, therefore, I'm not going to blind myself with hatred over their actions.
And why does it only bother me instead of anger me? Because it's a damned computer we're talking about. CUSA isn't killing babies. They're not raping virgins. And they didn't poop on the Pope. They're doing nothing more than borrowing another computer's name.
I'll say it again: I don't like it. I wish they'd pick other names, like the Commodore Colt or the Commodore CBM or something. But the anger directed towards them by many is simply ridiculous and out of proportion to the act.
and the fact that the company's response, as expressed by both its key members, is "you're stupid for disagreeing, also I'm going to call you a loser for even caring, now kiss my feet, peons" didn't help things one bit.
Which I chalked up to simple human failings and then let go... especially now that they appear to be willing to win some community support with their so-called challenge. I'll reserve damning them for their "challenge" WHEN they actually do (or don't) produce something.
And add to that the generally lackluster design and ridiculous pricing of the actual product, and a whole host of claims by the company that turned out to either be exaggerated or wholly false but have been consistently ignored in discussion with company representatives...this might be "human failings" in a dictionary-definition sense, but unless you have some plan for replacing Barry and his underlings with robots, human failings = failings in a company made up of humans. It's not just some little handful of foibles, it raises some pretty serious questions about the company as a whole.
What? Like they're the first? Name a company, any company, and I'll bet you GOOD money they've done just as many (maybe even more) stupid things. Here's some reading for you: The 11 Biggest PR Disasters Of 2011 (http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-24/strategy/30553839_1_disasters-reed-hastings-anthony-weiner). Many businesses have screwed up in the past and are still thriving despite their mistakes, mostly because they took the time to learn from them. CUSA can too.
And, once again, CUSA appears to be doing just that with their so-called "Challenge." And the fact that they puts some constraints on that challenge (6 months) suggests to me that they may be learning from their mistakes. They are, one, engaging the community like many of us have already suggested they should, and, two, with that constraint, recognizing that not everything the Community wants is doable.
It's their bet two win or lose and if they botch it, then the haters have every right to laugh. But the haters want to hate, forget reason, proportion and restraint... it will get in the way of hating.
No, because he's being (diplomatically speaking) a smarmy, obnoxious twit about it.
And so is everyone arguing with him. Which is why the moderates should do their job and moderate. Their is no "innocent" party here and the mods need to get it under control. Period.
That is, admittedly, a subjective judgement, but subjective judgement is exactly what mods are for, otherwise you could run a forum based on a set of sophisticated word filters. Lots of forums allow moderators to hand out cooldown temp-bans when a member is being annoying but not warranting a more serious mod action.
Yes. And their are still two sides causing trouble here. And both sides need to cool it. And the moderators need to moderate.
@ J-Golden:Dammy is not. Most of the comments on the post CUSA put up about this offer were neutral (read wait and see) to mildly positive. Instead of trying to help rally support to this new proposition, Dammy instead attacks and demeans people. He refused the fact that some of the negatively minded people were getting warmed over by this new move and continued to call other members out for past posts. All this does is cause unneeded contention and hurt CUSA's cause rather than help.
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I'm reminded of the parent with two children: one constantly aggravating the other until the second child hits the first. The first then calls out "Mom! He's hurting me!" Most parents would punish both children. The first for being a turd and the second for reacting to the turd.
Two sides are involved here, not just one. And both need to be dealt with.
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Here is a good example of why I am trying to work against all the fighting that goes on at several Amiga forum sites:
(Quote for another site, but pertinent to the recent discussion in this thread)
Good post!
I am software developer.
I started developing software for VIC20 1982nd The following year I went over to the C64 and 1986 for the Amiga. Unfortunately, it took out in 1994 when I rely on a market for my software. 1994, I went over to Windows. Did not like it but it was necessary, unfortunately. 2005, I lost my Amiga.
I started programming in Basic, built for the VIC20 and C64. When I went over to the Amiga I started with amiga basic but soon went over to HisoftBasic and thence to the SAS C.
In Windows, I started with Symantec C / C (C-section) but in 2000 I went over to LccWin32 and there I am still (an incredibly good programming tool, despite a few bugs).
I have more software on my computer for the Amiga, but can not get them online because a PC can not read Amiga floppy disks (I'm looking for an Amiga on ads).
I have several PC software (some can be downloaded from the web). Right now I develop an accounting software for small businesses (the beta version can be downloaded free).
I have also developed a library that makes it incredibly much easier and faster to develop software for Windows on more than 800 functions (the library can be downloaded free).
If I go back to the Amiga with the development of software must have an Amiga market, unfortunately it does not have it today. The market is much smaller now than 1995 and less all the time.
The reason that it will be less need to be removed!
There are several reasons:
1 - Amiga community sticking to too many different directions.
2 - Acceptance of new ideas within the Amiga community is very poor
3 - Acceptance of new entrants may be likened to a declaration of war
4 - Amiga Community seems to be more and more a forum for complaining against each other. Those who complain are in minioritet with enough of them to not feel welcome in the Amiga Community forums.
For the New Year, I wish the Amiga Community all the best and that the four problems above eliminated during the year.
Happy New Year and good continuation!
IMO, Points 2 & 3 are a direct reference to the refusal to accept any news regarding CUSA without repeated childish remarks flooding the thread.
IMO, Point 4 is directly related to all the rest of the fighting and name calling that goes on to often here and at other Amiga forum sites.
My arguments and opinions are just an attempt to reduce this behavior, so it does not have this effect on potential users and developers who might consider returning to the Amiga.
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Dave, with all due respect - your "point 2" on your post that people not warming up to Commodore USA is part of the problem is just silly. C-USA is a non-player in the market. Love them or hate them, they are not doing jack for Amiga at the moment. "Acceptance of new ideas" is one thing - but Dave, they sell commodity hardware running Linux. If you or anyone else wish to dub COS Vision and Atom boards as the best things ever, fine - but it's Linux and x86, Man. And PC components in custom cases. There is no "new idea" to accept from them with what they have on the table and how it affects "Amiga" atm, sorry. If you like retro cases running PC guts, visit their website and pick up one of their systems - but it isn't an Amiga, nor is it even a C64. It's a commodity x86 PC, same thing I am typing this post on right now.
Saying the lack of acceptance of C-USA's media blitz and how differences of opinions are cancerous to the scene, and how the Amiga community has not embraced C-USA is somehow hurting the Amiga scene is preposterous. If you are of the ilk that will say that they shouldn't be questioned based on past actions when they bring offers and challenges to the table for the community, that such questions shouldn't be asked, that we should just file in and fire off $500 each, we're really on different planets here.
As for point 4, you call it infighting - I call it spirited debate. I don't agree with you, you might not agree with me. It's the internet. Anything you or anyone else says on forums has zero bearing on how much I enjoy my Amiga IRL. I'm a big boy, I can handle it without screaming for more moderation and claiming the world is falling apart because we can't all agree. The internet isn't "serious business requiring order and control", and opinions don't mean a darned thing as to how a guy enjoys his hobby. Questions can be asked, debates can be had, all in a civil fashion.
They are a commodity PC vendor selling Linux based systems in custom cases, and aren't billing themselves as anything else. How they apply to anything "Amiga" at this point is beyond me. How C-USA offers anything to this guy that is complaining about being forced to now code for commodity/Windows boxes while he'd rather be coding for Amiga/Commodore is also beyond me. He has more choices of Amiga flavors than he ever had in the C= days - Morph, OS4, AROS, or even legacy via old HW or UAE/Amithlon. MorphOS being dirt cheap to get into, and AROS and UAE solutions being free or next to free.
As for the original poster of that list, there's still plenty of life left in the Amiga, whichever route you go (OS4, MOS, AROS, Legacy), but it's never going to be anything more than a hobbyist platform. Once again, I'll give props to the guys doing the Natami, FPGA solutions, and the good folks behind things like UAE and Amikit. Guys out there getting their hands dirty for little or no profit.
PS: Weren't you the guy called out for being abhorrently hostile towards everyone when some Amiga event IRL in your area didn't turn out as expected, you essentially calling the community useless? Please correct me if I am wrong.
EDIT: Yeah, you are - sorry I bothered. Same guy that played Security Force and venturing into weird stalker territory to a bunch of people openly discussing copyright means, and berating people for choosing to keep their day jobs and feeding their kids vs. going to conventions for a computer that was last made in the 90's.
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=666859#post666859
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59513
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:bump:
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And why does it only bother me instead of anger me? Because it's a damned computer we're talking about. CUSA isn't killing babies. They're not raping virgins. And they didn't poop on the Pope. They're doing nothing more than borrowing another computer's name.
The bold idiom sums up what I think, every time I see people getting upset about this subject...
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:bump:
???
Is there any particular reason to bump this flame fest?
Your job as a site owner is to keep the site peaceful - that's what amiga.org used to be about. Stop trolling please.
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@cgutjahr
Thanks for your feedback, it helps us improve the site.
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I was just thinking how nice it was not having C=USA arguments all over the front page... it was almost like a website about Amigas.... and then it got bumped . Not good.
(incidentally, it's at the top of the front page list at the moment so I'm not bumping it myself.)
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:bump:
Has Dammy hacked your account?
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Duce, you miss the point of my post completely. Those are not my points, they are of someone who has been turned off from thinking about returning to the Amiga community because of all the hateful posts in opposition to CUSA on the forums and the behavior of some members on the forums.
I don't give a rats A$$ about who hates CUSA or who loves them, I am just tired of seeing it here all the time. If more people would just ignore the news from CUSA, it would not get 1/10 the coverage it does here on this forum.
Edit: As for the rest of your claims, please stop trying to put words into my mouth, just because you disagree with what I have written in prior posts, does not mean that your "interpretation" of what I wrote is correct. In fact, you are way off base from the intention of what I have written on several occasions and your paraphrasing what I wrote, or what you think it means is so far off from what I meant, it is not even worth my time refuting your many posts attacking me. Maybe if you did attend an AmiWest Show you would find out the truth about me, but if that is not possible, or desirable for you to do, then please ask people that have attended and who know me and you will find out how wrong you really are.
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:bump:
Why?
No seriously, why?
I've tried so hard to ignore this thread and then you bump it. Go to the corner of the room and have a quiet word with yourself. :P
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Okay, what the hell is up with Transition bumping topics for no reason? Seriously, what?
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The ART thread I can kind of understand been bumped... But this one? For a full week no one bothered posting anything in it the suddenly a bump. Especially as there has been no new news regarding anything to do with this thread.
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The ART thread I can kind of understand been bumped... But this one? For a full week no one bothered posting anything in it the suddenly a bump. Especially as there has been no new news regarding anything to do with this thread.
For good reason.
The fur is really flying overseas on this one. Heh.
enjoy (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28292&forum=17&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0)
#6
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I have been keeping an eye on your thread regarding this. However I still don't see the relevance of bumping this thread until CUSA actually come out with some solid announcements.
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For good reason.
The fur is really flying overseas on this one. Heh.
enjoy (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28292&forum=17&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0)
#6
So, did C-USA fail to pay their $250,000 to Asiarim/Commodore Corp/whatever they're called this week and thus deprive them of funds? Is this the same C-USA that wants us to pay them in advance for new hardware? Are they still entitled to even use the Commodore name or will that need to be renegociated?
It is all very confusing.
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Anything business related confuses the crap out of me. Wish there was just a simple explanation for it all lol.
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Anything business related confuses the crap out of me. Wish there was just a simple explanation for it all lol.
Business "red tape" was created by lawyers to keep them working. :D
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So, did C-USA fail to pay their $250,000 to Asiarim/Commodore Corp/whatever they're called this week and thus deprive them of funds? Is this the same C-USA that wants us to pay them in advance for new hardware? Are they still entitled to even use the Commodore name or will that need to be renegociated?
It is all very confusing.
I've consulted with numerous people regarding Commodore history since the war began between Yeahronimo and Tulip.
Yes, it's confusing, because the news reports and the truth are at odds. The whole thing started out dirty and it's ending up dirty.
Names become confusing, not just because they change them, but also because there is often a "company" name responsbible for so-called daily business and a different "licensing" name operating simultaneously for just that purpose.
Example:Asiarim-daily business (lol) and Commodore Licensing B.V. (recently declared bankrupt) responsible only for the licensing end.
Fact is if all documentation is correct, the same man was in charge of Yeahronimo, CIC, Reunite, Asiarim etc.
I am extremely suspicious of Commodorecorp and their resuscitated website as well as the information posted ON it just days ago.
I reserve the right to change my opinion, but I see a fight going on to hold onto the IP and licensing rights...and it ain't pretty.
Until I see a press release regarding outcome in the court, I'm very wary of what I read anywhere else on people's "corporate" websites.
Regarding any agreement CUSA might have had with Asiarim at the time, it is my understanding that IF there is a change in ownership of the Commodore IP, there would be a grace period to address such issues. This seems logical since ownership changes are a common occurence.
#6
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I've consulted with numerous people regarding Commodore history since the war began between Yeahronimo and Tulip.
Yes, it's confusing, because the news reports and the truth are at odds. The whole thing started out dirty and it's ending up dirty.
Names become confusing, not just because they change them, but also because there is often a "company" name responsbible for so-called daily business and a different "licensing" name operating simultaneously for just that purpose.
Example:Asiarim-daily business (lol) and Commodore Licensing B.V. (recently declared bankrupt) responsible only for the licensing end.
Fact is if all documentation is correct, the same man was in charge of Yeahronimo, CIC, Reunite, Asiarim etc.
I am extremely suspicious of Commodorecorp and their resuscitated website as well as the information posted ON it just days ago.
I reserve the right to change my opinion, but I see a fight going on to hold onto the IP and licensing rights...and it ain't pretty.
Until I see a press release regarding outcome in the court, I'm very wary of what I read anywhere else on people's "corporate" websites.
#6
Thanks for that little summary. Keep up the good work reporting on this "mess" and try not to go mad understanding it. :)
It sounds like a clear case of companies within companies moving money around so that only a few people know where it is and nobody knows when chunks of it go missing.
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I'm a bit confused by the spaghetti mess and what it means. Does this mean that cusa's announcement of owning the commodore brand name and ip is now bull**** like everything else they have announced? Sounds to me like not only is that now bull****, but they may not have the legal right to use the brand name commodore anymore.... See http://www.commodorecorp announcement...http://www.commodorecorp.com/
Maybe dammy their puppet would like to chime in on this?
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I'm a bit confused by the spaghetti mess and what it means. Does this mean that cusa's announcement of owning the commodore brand name and ip is now bull**** like everything else they have announced? Sounds to me like not only is that now bull****, but they may not have the legal right to use the brand name commodore anymore.... See http://www.commodorecorp announcement...http://www.commodorecorp.com/
Maybe dammy their puppet would like to chime in on this?
I believe my post above is accurate. In the event of the change of ownership of the IP and/or licensing rights holder, there would be a grace period to address such a change.
#6
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I'm surprised none of the cusa lovers or puppets or they themselves hasn't said anything. I would think losing the rights to use your company name or not would be an awfully important thing that you should address, but then...
I guess they are trying to figure out how to lie they way out of this if it does turn out they lost they name rights. (And the ip announcement was bull**** too)
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Or maybe they have realized that less antagonistic tactics are better? I've seen less and less harsh comments coming from the CUSA "camp" so why don't we play in like manor and drop the name calling.
TANKZ!
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:bump:
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Thanks for that little summary. Keep up the good work reporting on this "mess" and try not to go mad understanding it. :)
It sounds like a clear case of companies within companies moving money around so that only a few people know where it is and nobody knows when chunks of it go missing.
Posted in the "Massive Announcement" thread from 10 or 11 weeks ago:
There has been a delay obviously.....due to circumstances beyond our control.
Still looking good though.
source (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/10029-massive-announcement-coming?limit=15&start=105&lang=en#12369)
I can see where there might be a delay.
C=Holdings B.V. v. Asiarim Corporation et al
source (http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/trademark-lawsuits/new-york-southern-district-court/89537/c-holdings-b-v-v-asiarim-corporation-et-al/summary/)
#6
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:bump:
With all due respect I just have to know. Why do you keep bumping CUSA threads?
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Posted in the "Massive Announcement" thread from 10 or 11 weeks ago:
source (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/10029-massive-announcement-coming?limit=15&start=105&lang=en#12369)
I can see where there might be a delay.
source (http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/trademark-lawsuits/new-york-southern-district-court/89537/c-holdings-b-v-v-asiarim-corporation-et-al/summary/)
#6
What part of "looking good though" don't you understand??
:D
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What part of "looking good though" don't you understand??
:D
Heh.
The line that indicates that even the court realizes how complicated this is:
This case is hereby designated for inclusion in the Pilot Project Regarding Case Management Techniques for Complex Civil Cases in the Southern District of New York
description of the pilot program (http://ekslegal.com/2011/12/06/new-yorks-southern-district-pilot-project-requires-joint-submissions-on-e-discovery/)
#6
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source[/url]
#6
From the cheap seats where I'm at, I don't see the above as the reason for the delay. But as far as the above link, it is popcorn time at the Roman Coliseum. Better find a seat in a hurry, looks like the lions have just been released.
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From the cheap seats where I'm at, I don't see the above as the reason for the delay. But as far as the above link, it is popcorn time at the Roman Coliseum. Better find a seat in a hurry, looks like the lions have just been released.
Lawsuit filing posted (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28292&forum=17&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#652217)
For those curious, CUSA status is mentioned in several places directly and once "implied", imo.
#6
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The fought over bones and scraps of what C= and Amiga were are fossils now. I guess the rumor of what they were is percieved as a ticket to make unprofitable high volume low quality technology product a viable business concern. Regardless of whether the best interests of the name are in mind or not if the profits are not realised (wich is highly likely) the owners will eventually turn to cutting their losses by closing access to what they own and can make profit from. Those who now share the C= and Amiga arena look out.
Conceptually in 3 years time I might be a member of "JayMinersMachine.org" instead of "Amiga.org" or alternatively having to pay $99pa to remain a member of Aorg.....
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Most depressing thing about this whole mess is none of it is surprising in the least.
I can't think of a time when the whole Commodore/Amiga show wasn't an unmitigated gong show. Seems it's always been like watching a wreck in progress, lol.
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The legal Commodore entity and whatever sub-entities that exist are so legally screwed it is not funny. It is too bad for the Florida people that probably thought everything was cool when they got established. Commodore is cursed, it always will be. That is all there is to it. I say this as a neutral party - I am no CUSA fan-boy or anything. I'm an original 8 bit burnout from the PET days so Commodore to me will always be this golden era. I do not even count Amiga higher than PET in the grand scheme of things. To me Amiga was a latter acquisition of curious nature. Each to their own however. Many people probably are newer and only relate Commodore to Amiga only. So this whole Commodore trademark thing is all trash. It will never escape the legal garbage cleanly. One bankruptcy after another. One legal ownership transfer after another. It is rubbish plain and simple. Amiga is cursed in the same way, just to a lesser degree. It's all dead folks and taken over by filthy rats, greedy lesser forms of life plain and simple. All trying to make a buck on something a former generation made great - not them. Bums......
The Florida people may make it out alright somehow. Who knows in reality though because lawyers, judges, and the entire legal system are all evil. To hell with Commodore and to hell with Amiga too (in legal senses). Many people like to be armchair lawyers and Greek debate all of this garbage. Not me. What we have here is a free for all. A few spinoff camps that share a common API is what we are left with. Join one camp, join multiple camps, do whatever you want. Not one bit of it is Commodore anymore. There are the famous red-blue wars. Screw that too. The community needs to realize that this is all crapola. Just use whatever computer you want and have fun with it. None of them will amount to anything major. But that does not mean we can't make a hobby out of whatever we choose. For me I have a garage full of original Commodore garbage. 64's, 128's, 1000's, 500's 2000's 3000's. Out of all the piles of this sh**, you power up an 8 bit machine in front of me from the golden era, and I instantly remember scads of poke and peek values. Go figure because I can hardly remember what I ate yesterday but I can remember a poke value from 25 years ago.
Commodore is screwed. Hopefully the latest Florida victim comes out of it in one piece. For me, my name is the phonetic reverse. My theme, reversing the curse.And if I ever decide to, I will do exactly that.
Cheers.
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@Rodomoc,
One of the sanest posts I've read in a long time...
Your post sums up the Amiga 'scene' perfectly; it was good in the day, but is now a nostalgic hobby.
Enjoy the machines for what they are and don't worry about trying to conquer the world - it won't happen.
Mike.
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They are still under the impression they can throw a bunch of workstation components in a case that any other company would charge $4,000 for and by virtue of the Amiga name, slap a $5,000 premium on it because it has the Amiga name on it. The Amiga name has no value to people using commodity high end workstations, sorry - much less the hysterical thought of said workstation PC's coming with Commodore OS, LOL. The Toaster days are long gone, sorry.
They can't, much less in a HTPC case like they had mocked up, lol. I'm not sure if they put much thought into how that HTPC case would become a microwave over with a couple CPU's and Quadro cards in it, not that they would fit anyways.
My Silverstone SG07 Mini-ITX case can support upto 12.2 inch + 400 watts graphics card...
(http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l327/encia/PC_hardware/SDC10431.jpg)
I'm waiting for my Radeon HD 7950.
Somebody's Silverstone SG07 with NVIDIA Geforce GTX 570.
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2466/sg07build11.jpg)
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A mini ITX LAN party type case won't house any workstation grade mobo or workstation gfx card solution, and neither will an off the shelf HTPC case. Nice build, those pics - but apples and oranges. Isn't a workstation system around running Mini ITX boards and gamer grade video cards. I love my LAN gaming rig, but it's insane to say I could throw workstation grade components in that case.
There's a big difference between a lanparty type gamer case like the one pictured, and "workstation spec" builds. If you find a way to cram a dual Xeon eATX mobo, multiple drives in RAID, 2 power supplies (1 redundant), and a Quadro or two into a consumer grade case like that, I'd be very interested to see the build. It's like stuffing a marshmallow into a parking meter. The 570 has that thing crammed right full, and the 570 isn't that big of a card, the 590 (the cards I own) are 2 inches longer and aren't even workstation cards.
You simply are not going to cram a server grade mobo (eATX, quite often) and other commonplace workstation components into a case meant to be portable (gaming PC) or one that is designed to live in the footprint as a DVD player (HTPC) and have it work, lol. There's not a workstation grade Mini ITX board around.
Can't put 20 pounds of horseplop in a 5 pound bag. You can't park a '59 Caddy Hearse in the parking spot meant for a Fiat 500.
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Lawsuit filing posted (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28292&forum=17&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#652217)
For those curious, CUSA status is mentioned in several places directly and once "implied", imo.
#6
i guess we can say goodbye to CUSA soon.
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*glances over document*
...uh, could someone remind me who's blaming whom for what, again? This stuff is hard enough to keep track of without being buried in legalese...
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After re-reading a chunk of the pdf, curious why the C-USA fanboys are all giddy with delight. I always assumed the rights were legal, in Commodore USA usage - if they happened to get screwed in the legal proceedings, I won't exactly lose any sleep, however. Honestly I never cared about the legal aspect of the "brand". I mean, if I buy a C64x or a VIC system from C-USA, it's got the Commodore name on it, and I'm not going to be too worked up how said name got there if it's a good system and I assume it's a "Commodore". Said name doesn't mean a darned thing to me these days. Nothing they offer will revolutionize modern computing, we're too deep in the "PC is an appliance" era of computing for that on a mainstream level. Apple isn't shaking in their boots, worrying that the "new Amiga" will ruin their video editing loyalists customers, lol. C= and Amiga aren't even a blip on the radar in the mainstream, and never will be again. Fighting over these brand names, to me - is the equivalent of hobos fighting over bare chickenwing bones in a Hooters dumpster, but perhaps I just don't see the "big payoff" aspect.
I mean, it's 2012 - they are making commodity PC's in retro form factors under an old school name, which is totally fine by me - but if Jesus himself gave them the sole rights to the Commodore name worldwide, what the hell difference does it make? The days of the C64 are over. The glory of the Amiga was over nearly 20 years ago, sorry - I'm really not sure what any of the various corpse sitters in regards to trademarks and branding are going to do to bring back former glory to "our beloved brand".
What am I missing here that has the ardent supporters of C-USA so giddy? Seriously, I'd like to know. I just see another clusterf*ck of legal paperwork - unless there's some valuable patents I am not aware of, I just don't get it. If there are valuable patents - whoever gets the rights to them better have deep pockets :)
Not a slam against C-USA in the least, just curious for some clarification why a group of people would be seeing yet another gong show of legalese pdf's and international court proceedings as a positive thing.
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Which is why one should have a camera at hand all the time, even when taking a shower.
mmm i think soon have the dream with woman in my shower but each to there own hehe
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I'm surprised anyone cares. I don't. I just bought a $900 ultrabook to run Linux on. The last thing I'd buy is CUSA junk.
MorphOS / Amiga OS are the only two things Amiga that I care about. Unless NatAmi gets released... :)
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i guess we can say goodbye to CUSA soon.
as an aside, I like this bit from their forum
2. This includes the acquisition of certain technology that will change the landscape of the CE/IT industry in a most profound manner, and will enable Commodore the ability to bring to market a product category that will put us back in the forefront of the computer/IT/CE arena, as we once were.
we who exactly?
Illusions of grandeur much?
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I want to know what they have bought that they feel will change the face of IT.
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*glances over document*
...uh, could someone remind me who's blaming whom for what, again? This stuff is hard enough to keep track of without being buried in legalese...
Short answer, hopefully in layman terms...
C=Holdings B.V. v. Asiarim Corporation et al
C=Holding B.V. is basically shown as Messrs (Jan) Hoogstrate and (Albertus Wilhelmus Maria) Ebben
Their names appear in the original Asiarim participation agreement and in the loan agreement: http://www.secinfo.com/d1b6kb.q8.1.htm
and in the lawsuit.
Asiarim Corporation is Ben Van Wijhe.
et al is a group of both known and unknown and/or unnamed people and corporations, indicated by the statement in the lawsut related to further discovery yet to be completed.
The people claiming they own the Commodore IP are accusing Asiarim of doing business (licensing the IP) they had no right to be doing. They claim harm has been done on a number of levels.
@Duce
What am I missing here that has the ardent supporters of C-USA so giddy?
Because CUSA previously stated they were renegotiating their terms. They are obviously dealing now with those claiming in the lawsuit to be the rightful owners of the IP. Since those folks are investors, they likely have little interest beyond what they can recover. Hence I'm sure the "giddy" refers to the feeling that CUSA can gain what they want in exchange for payment.
Nevertheless, it's a lawsuit and predicting the outcome is impossible. Truly a case of "when it's done". Heh.
@CritAnime
I want to know what they have bought that they feel will change the face of IT.
I posted one possibility here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=680109&postcount=3)
Additional history is here (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=28292&forum=17&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0)
#6
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Are you referring to the Video Compression Technology?
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If they are banking on yet another video codec, good luck. Not sure why they would figure that would re-invent the world, if that is their ace in the hole.
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If they are banking on yet another video codec, good luck. Not sure why they would figure that would re-invent the world, if that is their ace in the hole.
I only said the reference was a possibility.
As described by Asiarim when they first signed the terms sheet (now cancelled):
This video compression technology based on wavelet algorithms is able to dramatically reduce any type of video content or live stream including those already pre-compressed with any CODEC without loss of video quality.
source (http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/110526/ASIARIM-CORP_8-K.A/)
So, we're talking about bandwidth, imo. That's not like a codec you have to convince someone to use because it's better. Compression at this level would have more general appeal. As I understand it, this was intended to be in the marketplace long ago but held up in patent disputes.
Worldwide rights reported (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=134527230)
Termination of negotiations with Asiarim (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/111207/armc.pk8-k.html)
#6
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I posted one possibility here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=680109&postcount=3)
I bought a fractal compression program back in the 1990s. If the size of the file to be compressed was divisible by certain values, and it was Tuesday and the moon was blue, it would work fine. Otherwise you were just as well off using zip. I can understand why FIF never took off.
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I bought a fractal compression program back in the 1990s. If the size of the file to be compressed was divisible by certain values, and it was Tuesday and the moon was blue, it would work fine. Otherwise you were just as well off using zip. I can understand why FIF never took off.
Understood. Hence why I posted about horsepower in the other comment I made.
#6
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No I would say your view that it could be the compression technology is valid. Given Barry's history with stuff like this. After all him and his brother found a way of breaking the HBO encryption (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oRwEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=barry+altman+cable&source=bl&ots=Nds_U0ZN1r&sig=skiMbSQZsm8bD5fn-uWHSfSTEKA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0Oo3T9SdN5KR8gOKh4S8Ag&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=barry%20altman%20cable&f=false) back in the 80's. So it's possible that, if it is this tech, he will see it as a way of breaking back into the mainstream.
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No I would say your view that it could be the compression technology is valid. Given Barry's history with stuff like this. After all him and his brother found a way of breaking the HBO encryption (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oRwEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=barry+altman+cable&source=bl&ots=Nds_U0ZN1r&sig=skiMbSQZsm8bD5fn-uWHSfSTEKA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0Oo3T9SdN5KR8gOKh4S8Ag&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=barry%20altman%20cable&f=false) back in the 80's. So it's possible that, if it is this tech, he will see it as a way of breaking back into the mainstream.
That's interesting.
I've looked at this from the start of the Yeahronimo vs Tulip war only. We've seen constant rebranding of off the shelf h/w, but nothing you could say would set them apart from the rest of the competitors in today's world.
Ergo, when I 1st read about EuroAmerican S.A. contacting Asiarim, this seemed different to me.
I must repeat, however:
(1)We don't know enough about EuroAmerican S.A. atm to prove either the technology, or frankly given the history of Commodore/Amiga and lawsuits...whether the patent is really solely in their hands. I'd like to know more.
(2)Since EuroAmerican S.A. cancelled the negotiations with Asiarim (for obvious reasons now that we've seen the lawsuit) we have no proof they would re-enter negotiations with any new parties associated with Commodore.
Barry posted 2 days ago:
we are dealing with an enormous amount of legal, technical and corporate factors that all have to come together at the right time and place.
Whether that applies only to the Commodore IP or relates also to what we are discussing re:wavelet technology is yet to be seen.
#6
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No your doing a massive job keeping up with all this. And I doubt anyone would say that the information you dig up isn't helpful as most of us would have probably given this up by now lol. I know it's all conjecture at the moment though. But it's interesting that given all this, and Barry's past, That this seems to pop up so much.
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If the codec tech was that hot ****e, there would (and will) be bigger guns on it like stink on a monkey long before the small fry heard about it.
You don't really think a company like Google, MS or Apple wouldn't snap up a revolutionary technology without saying a word for either patents or further development, do you? Long before a furniture vendor in Florida would have, the big sharks would have been all over it if it was worthwhile and not a complete clusterf*ck of legality.
Nah, they've only done it hundreds upon hundreds of times, lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Google
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Apple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Microsoft
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If the codec tech was that hot ****e, there would (and will) be bigger guns on it like stink on a monkey long before the small fry heard about it.
You don't really think a company like Google, MS or Apple wouldn't snap up a revolutionary technology without saying a word for either patents or further development, do you? Long before a furniture vendor in Florida would have, the big sharks would have been all over it if it was worthwhile and not a complete clusterf*ck of legality.
Nah, they've only done it hundreds upon hundreds of times, lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Google
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Apple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Microsoft
Good grief. One has to wonder what these giants would have on their own today if they couldn't acquire so much. Seems like only the small guys innovate anymore, kind of like starving artists, then the giants poach them like salmon swimming upstream. Very sad when you think about how things were in the 1970s-1980s compared to today.