How fast is MorphOS?

[Dan]

>Since the 600Mhz G3 is half the speed of UAEJIT then the G4 1GHz will be the same speed as UAEJIT?

   Question makes no sense The G3 can not be "half speed of UAE JIT" because any speed difference obviously depends on the PC you throw at it, not just UAE's JIT: A G3-based Pegasos without JIT may very well be much faster than UAE/JIT. And vice versa. Faster or slower is very much a matter of Ghz. Also, please keep in mind that we are talking about how fast classic m68k code is executed, ie. "old software". This thread is not about the speed of the G3 but about the speed of the emulator. That said, some comments on speed:

Sorry, what I meant was that Morphos without JIT is equal in speed to UAE with JIT on a MHz for Mhz basis, meaning that a 1Ghz Pegasos would be as fast as my  1Ghz PC?

[Targhan]

@Dan

Sorry, what I meant was that Morphos without JIT is equal in speed to UAE with JIT on a MHz for Mhz basis, meaning that a 1Ghz Pegasos would be as fast as my 1Ghz PC?

First, you must understand that speed is dependant on many things beyond just MHz.  As a member of the amiga community you must realize this.  A 40Mhz 040 based A4000 will smoke any 40Mhz 486 system.   Unfortunately, in today's world this is further complicated beyond simple differences in the CPU.

My 600Mhz/G3 Pegasos smokes my 950Mhz Celeron PC for *most* tasks.  When running Amithlon (w/JIT) against my non-JIT install of MorphOS (same PC, just amithlon instead of windows) the speeds are comparable in most instances, with one or the other getting the nod of better performance depending on what I'm doing.  Unfortunately, my mileage may not match with your mileage.

The reason?  Speed isn't about MHz anymore.  You have memory speed, bus speed, harddrive speed, the graphics card speed, and all of that before getting into the CPU's cache sizes, which can make a world of difference depending on the application.  (Try encoding a video on a 1ghz celeron vs a 1ghz PIII.  Remember, they ARE the same CPU with different cache sizes.)

Thus, it becomes very difficult to make any blanket statements.  With that said, UAE has to sit on a host OS (windows, linux, etc), so it has some drawbacks right out of the gate.  However, in the end, it will still depend on who built the system, how careful they were with selecting parts, etc.  I have seen 1Ghz PIII's outperform 1.7 Ghz P4's due to the configuration of the other parts in the system.  In the end, my earlier statement stands.  Visit the AmiGOD2 statistics site if you want to see test results.

:-)

[KennyR]

A typical Pegasos boot is around 28 seconds, but the OS itself will indeed boot in a very decent 2.6 seconds, the rest of the time is spent doing some nasty hardware tests or whatever, this should be fixed in Pegasos2.

My Pegasos takes 12 seconds to boot, from the moment I turn it on until Ambient is sitting front of me ready to use. I hear that OF is delayed by some hardware combinations, such as not plugging in a PS2 mouse, so maybe you have that problem.

Actually when I first installed MOS it only took 8 or so, but the boot has been slightly delayed by 30 datatypes, USB stack, catweasel floppy dosdrivers, TCP/IP stack, and a huge background pic. :-)

[Karlos]

I suppose the statement 'bloody fast!' is enough, eh?

@Kenny,

My OS 3.0 used to boot in about 20 seconds on my old 040 card from cold. It now takes 2x longer - there is a scsi startup delay on the blizzppc and a reboot as the rom update is installed.

It still boots in a fraction of the time it takes this sodding Win2K machine :lol:

[Dietmar]

>Sorry, what I meant was that Morphos without JIT is equal in speed to UAE with JIT on a MHz for Mhz basis

Obviously not, MorphOS is faster because the OS runs directly on the CPU and does not need an emulator. UAE needs an emulator to run the OS. Big difference. But I guess/hope what you really mean is how the speed of emulators compare, ie. the speed at which "old" software is executed? If you mean the emulator in MorphOS, yes, in my experience, with my own PC, a crude MHz comparison vs a typical PCs (of the last year or two) seems to be a reasonable rule of thumb. While waiting for JIT, that is.

[Dan]

Ok, if boot time  is included a pegasos will always be faster than a pc.  And with the morphos-jit things will get even faster. Then there is also the silence of the Pegasos. I´m almost convinced to buy a pegasos but does my favorite programs work?
I know PPaint and Photogenics works but does DPaint and PerfectPaint work?
And what about Visage, DiamondBOX and Collector ?
And ArtPRO ?

[Hammer]

KennyR wrote:
Oh, I didn't get a chance to thank you for finding my PC motherboard details earlier (the Quake2 thread). With your help I was able to bite the bullet and quickly pick a 512MB DIMM for the PC. It's much more responsive now (namely it no longer takes 3 minutes to load IE). Thanks!

No problems…

Just note that, a VIA KLE133(e.g. MSI-6378) will have to share its memory bandwidth with the GPU (in this case, an “Integrated Trident Blade 2D/3D video accelerator”) and the CPU.

From Sisoftware’s Sandra 2003, a VIA KLE133's memory throughput is around ~586Mb/s. A MSI-6330 V3.6 (VIA KT133A) has  a memory throughput of ~898~910Mb/s (with BIOS V3.6).

PS; A VIA KT133A reference board has a ~1012MB/s (aggressive memory timings, BIOS's settings permitting).

To illustrate the impact speed penalty in regards to memory bandwidth refer to the following scenario.
Try 'MPEG 2 (DVD resolution and quality) to Divx 5.0(~DVD resolution and quality)' conversion (via Flask) on VIA KT133A (with 512Mb 133Mhz SDRAM) vs nForce II (with 512Mb 266Mhz DDR SDRAM) (both was installed with a similar CPU i.e. Athlon XP 1800+(~@1.53Ghz)). The VIA KT133A (MSI-6330) can only reach ~12~14 Fps, while nForce II reaches +26 Fps.  

That performance gap widens farther IF the machine employs 333Mhz memory/FSB bandwidth. Of course an Athlon XP 2600+** (@~2.09Ghz) will help in that regard. **333Mhz FSB variant.

FSB and memory bandwidth may have some impact on emulation's speed.

[Madgun68]

I know PPaint and Photogenics works but does DPaint and PerfectPaint work?
And what about Visage, DiamondBOX and Collector ?
And ArtPRO ?

DPaint won't work as far as I know. All versions are tied to the custom chipsets. Not sure about PerfectPaint, as I haven't tried that yet. As for the others you mentioned:

Visage: Yes. (Kinda slow though. The included MysticView is much faster.)
Collector: Yes
ArtPRO: Yes
DiamondBOX: Sort of. It ran but didn't seem to work correctly.

[Dan]

Thanks Madgun.

Visage: Yes. (Kinda slow though. The included MysticView is much faster.)

Is it slow when opening the screen or loading the picture?
I run it from DOpus like this: "path/Visage wbmonitor {O}" to stop it from opening a new srceen evertime.
Anyway MysticView is Morphos native right? because its slow on a 060 an even on my uae.
 

[KennyR]

Yes, Mysticview (and its libraries, guigfx and render) are fully native.

MysticView is incredibly fast on Pegasos, as is anything that uses datatypes (which are slow on Amiga systems, even emulated ones). If I use Picshow (on Aminet) on a dir full of 1024x768x32 pictures and hold down the downarrow key, the pictures load so fast one after the other that my screen becomes a blur of colour.

[sdesros]

Actually DPaint V kinda works on Peg+MOS, as it did support RTG.  I think lots of people forgot that but then again, the RTG modes were SOOOO SLOW, but it's not much of a problem now.  

I haven't tested it out fully yet, but I think that the animation features are the only real problem.  I think the animation player doesn't work fully in the RTG screen modes.

[Madgun68]

Is it slow when opening the screen or loading the picture?
I run it from DOpus like this: "path/Visage wbmonitor {O}" to stop it from opening a new srceen evertime.

Sorry, I should have elaborated a little more. Opening the screen is quick enough.. What's slow is rendering the pictures.

[Note to self: Don't post first thing after waking up in the morning]

[Dan]

Sorry, I should have elaborated a little more. Opening the window is quick enough.. .

 :-?
Window???
Visage  always opens its own screen to display the pictures!
And there is an option to disable the internal 68k assembler optomized jpg loader and use datatypes instead but I haven´t bothered with it yet.

[olegil]

KennyR wrote:
My Pegasos takes 12 seconds to boot, from the moment I turn it on until Ambient is sitting front of me ready to use. I hear that OF is delayed by some hardware combinations, such as not plugging in a PS2 mouse, so maybe you have that problem.

Heh, I just cut down the boot-time of my AmigaOne by about a minute. The problem? I had fiddled too much with the harddrive so two pins on the connector had been pushed back and was touching eachother on the PCB... IDEACK was tied to GND, so it was a miracle it even worked. Removed the faulty pin, and suddenly I'm in Linux after 15 seconds (Linux isn't impressive when it comes to boot time, I must say).

Still, this here RapidBIOS by Intel on the office computer hasn't started Lilo by the time my AmigaOne is in userland, so I can't complain :-)

[woof]

Hi i am the author of Woof3D and i've
seen my own prog (a 3D 68020-040 library) run on
a beta of Morphos 1.4 and it's very fly
with the new JIT
(and after all it works !! and simply that astonished me :-))
Dont know if it is faster than a 68060
(never seen running on it) but i look
very comparable to the WinUAE JIT on
a more than 1Goz PC
So it's will be very coool on a Pegasos 2 G4

Alain Thellier - Paris -France
woof3d.make.you.free.fr

[Mad-Matt]

visage can use datatypes by specifying the -datatype option on the commandline.

May as well use multiview if you want it in a window though.