Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1

[Iggy]

So, I am unclear on this.
Will Hyperion eventually support the use of the Sonnet crescendo 7200 when installed on PCI enhanced legacy Amigas?

Sonnet cards range as high as 800 MHz using G4 processors.

Were these boards to be reverse engineered, there are still compatible low wattage G4 processor available that run at 800 MHz and 1 GHz that could be utilized.

This option would bring the cpu speeds up to levels comparable with lower end AmigaOnes.

With full legacy chipset support, PCI expansion, and high speed PPC processors, legacy hardware would be able to run far more Amiga software than any NG platform, at speeds that would make running everything from OS3.1 to OS4.1 practical.

[Acill]

So, I am unclear on this.
Will Hyperion eventually support the use of the Sonnet crescendo 7200 when installed on PCI enhanced legacy Amigas?

Sonnet cards range as high as 800 MHz using G4 processors.

Were these boards to be reverse engineered, there are still compatible low wattage G4 processor available that run at 800 MHz and 1 GHz that could be utilized.

This option would bring the cpu speeds up to levels comparable with lower end AmigaOnes.

With full legacy chipset support, PCI expansion, and high speed PPC processors, legacy hardware would be able to run far more Amiga software than any NG platform, at speeds that would make running everything from OS3.1 to OS4.1 practical.

I wouldnt count on it or Elbox would of moved forward with the Shark plan, which is this same card.

[Motormouth]

So, I am unclear on this.
Will Hyperion eventually support the use of the Sonnet crescendo 7200 when installed on PCI enhanced legacy Amigas?

Sonnet cards range as high as 800 MHz using G4 processors.

Were these boards to be reverse engineered, there are still compatible low wattage G4 processor available that run at 800 MHz and 1 GHz that could be utilized.

This option would bring the cpu speeds up to levels comparable with lower end AmigaOnes.

With full legacy chipset support, PCI expansion, and high speed PPC processors, legacy hardware would be able to run far more Amiga software than any NG platform, at speeds that would make running everything from OS3.1 to OS4.1 practical.

We would have a R200 driver with OS4.1

[Wrangler]

As I understand it, some significant changes would be needed to the OS4 kernel to support the Sonnet 7200 (or Rapture card) because the G3/G4 processor on the Mediator side cannot directly access the Amiga bus.  Therefore the Sonnet working on OS4 is not "in two weeks" but closer to never...

[number6]

I wouldnt count on it or Elbox would of moved forward with the Shark plan, which is this same card.

The first consideration for the Sonnet Crescendo was long long before the Shark.
Let's just say that there were disagreements on how to proceed and leave it at that.

Years later inquiries were sent out as to existing stock and condition of same.
Non-starter. There are people here who can supply the exact figures.

#6

[Iggy]

So the only utility is in legacy applications using Warp3D?
That's a lot of expense and effort to run a very small number of programs.

That knocks the Sonnet out of consideration for me.

In order for a PPC to access the chipset, I'd assume it needs to be incorporated into the processor card, right?

Reverse engineering the Crescendo is a whole lot less attractive to me at this point.

[Wrangler]

Well, it all depends what you're interested in.  Quake 3?  Exult?  Lots of SDL conversions being worked on.

The G3/4 can access the Amiga chipset eg Paula at least indirectly via the 680x0.  I don't know the exact mechanism.  But you need a graphics card to use the mediator in the first place so RTG is going to be the choice over AGA...

[kreciu]

So, I am unclear on this.
Will Hyperion eventually support the use of the Sonnet crescendo 7200 when installed on PCI enhanced legacy Amigas?

Considering there is basically ZERO availability of Sonnet's why would someone put time/money into this type of development?

I would not mind it in my tower but...

Get yourself... A1222 when (if) it will be out.

[kolla]

So the only utility is in legacy applications using Warp3D?

Surely you mean WarpOS?

[Iggy]

The first consideration for the Sonnet Crescendo was long long before the Shark.
Let's just say that there were disagreements on how to proceed and leave it at that.

Years later inquiries were sent out as to existing stock and condition of same.
Non-starter. There are people here who can supply the exact figures.

#6

The low wattage version of the cpu used (in 800 and 1000MHz speeds) is available in adequate quantities.

[Iggy]

Surely you mean WarpOS?

Actually, I was thinking in terms of MorphOS Goa, but yes I should have referred to WarpOS.

Considering there is basically ZERO availability of Sonnet's why would someone put time/money into this type of development?

I would not mind it in my tower but...

Get yourself... A1222 when (if) it will be out.

Tabor? Obviously you're not familiar with my posts.

I will NEVER own one of those boards.
I'd consider spend the money on an X5000, but a system based on the crippled P1022?
Why would I want a system with a 32 bit cpu and a non-stand fpu, when the last two AmigaOne systems have had 64 bit cpus with standard fpus?

Because it costs less? So do lime green polyester pants from Kmart, hey they might give you two for the cost of one (item that is much less ugly).

But if cost was a primary issue, I'd stick with the Raspberry Pi 3.

But back to the topic, if legacy PPC boards can access the chipset directly and the Sonnet Crescendo can't, then I have no real use for the Sonnet board.

It doesn't appear that we have the talent left in the Amiga community needed to build a new 68K/PPC based processor slot board.
So, my last PPC system may be an X5000 (hopefully an X5000/40 if it gets produced).

Then I'll follow the MorphOS migration to X64, while keep my peripheral vision trained on what hardware comes after Tabor.

I'm actually pretty fond of what we've managed with PPCs, but its probably time to move on.

[trixster]

Considering there is basically ZERO availability of Sonnet's why would someone put time/money into this type of development?

This is not quite true. They come up from time to time on Amibay, and a number of people have found them by using the Wanted section there. The problem is they are scarce so the price is high. The 'rapture' variant of the sonnet is readily available but again it costs quite a lot. But you are right, sonnet/rapture is a very very niche corner of the Amiga market, so I doubt there'll ever be anything 'official' from the bigger players. Any development will come from the handful of guys you see posting in the big EAB sonnet thread. IMO they're doing brilliantly so far!

Here's a list of sonnet/rapture compatible software. It hasn't been updated for a little while but it gives an idea as to why someone might want one.

https://github.com/Sakura-IT/SonnetAmiga/wiki/Compatible-Software-(PowerPC.library-version)

[trixster]

The Sonnet 'team' are actively working on getting faster G4 PMC cards running, and there is even talk of them producing a bespoke very fast (1Ghz+) card at some point.

[Iggy]

The Sonnet 'team' are actively working on getting faster G4 PMC cards running, and there is even talk of them producing a bespoke very fast (1Ghz+) card at some point.

Well, there are still completely compatible low wattage 1GHz cpus available from NXP.
And reverse engineering the board?
Remove the components and send it to the proper company.
It's doable.

But a board with no direct access to the chipset, where everything native has to be directed by the 68K?

That doesn't seem nearly as useful as a processor slot board.

[trixster]

I think your best bet would be to ask your questions to Hedeon (the sonnet powerpc.library guy) directly in the EAB sonnet thread.

Regarding other ppc cpus and boards, the team had this to say:

"In theory other PPC boards could be supported, maybe easily, if they have an MPC107 Northbridge (PCI/Memory controller), don't have a flashrom that autoboots the board on their own and aren't hardware forced into "Master" mode. Other MPC107 "clone" or "compatible" controllers might work too, for instance the MPC842x or Harrier controllers, but it hasn't been done yet so "might" work applies."

I have never used AOs4 so I have no idea how it works, but I was under the impression that getting AOs4 to run on sonnet-type processor cards was not an insurmountable problem (just a very difficult one), and it is a low priority for Hedeon at the moment.

Selected quotes from the thread:

"talk of running OS4 is at this moment a pipe dream. There is no work being done in this area."

"Initialising Mediator and Voodoo is a trivial problem (that could be implemented in many different ways - either a binary started from OS3, or a module loaded from Deneb). The real problems are modifications necessary to OS4 kernel and drivers - note that Sonnet CPU can not directly access the Amiga bus, unlike in Phase5 cards. _That_ would be a huge task."

"the Sonnet cannot access the Amiga bus. So if it would ever materialize, you would need some SATA/IDE card to boot from and to connect a mouse, keyboard HDD etc. to as none of the Amiga chipset can be reached."

I am not an expert on this so I don't really know what i'm talking about happy to be corrected.