Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: SysAdmin on May 03, 2014, 11:09:13 PM
-
http://www.cultofmac.com/2613/steve-jobs-still-parking-in-handicapped-spaces-the-pictures/
-
"morally handicapped" - love it.
Thanks.
I don't normally enjoy defaming the dead, but I can make an exception for Jobs.
And I heard it was puppies, not old ladies.
-
How'd he drive with no number plate? The cops here in Oz would have spotted that in a second.
-
How'd he drive with no number plate? The cops here in Oz would have spotted that in a second.
The story I heard was that you only need a license plate in the state he lived in after having a new car for a month so he had some kind of special deal with the car dealership to get a new car every month and thus not require a license plate.
Why did he do it? Apparently he didn't want people to learn what his number plate was an identify him/his car. Silly really since a car without a number plate stands out more and it wouldn't take long for the rumour mill to come into action either.
-
Steve Jobs was head of Apple so I guess he had right to choose any parking slot at Apple campus.
-
As Prowler said, that was the reason for the lack of plates on his cars, but it was more so someone couldn't look up his plate number via someone shady at the DMV and harass him at his residence.
All covered well in the Isaacson book, which is worth a read even if you aren't an Apple fanboy (I'm not).
-
The story I heard was that you only need a license plate in the state he lived in after having a new car for a month so he had some kind of special deal with the car dealership to get a new car every month and thus not require a license plate.
Why did he do it? Apparently he didn't want people to learn what his number plate was an identify him/his car. Silly really since a car without a number plate stands out more and it wouldn't take long for the rumour mill to come into action either.
But in a month he would have been driving yet another car... I imagine there are many new cars which were not Jobs'.
I guess getting new license plates every months was not an option.
-
Steve Jobs was a weird arsehole... His biography goes into great detail about that. But the simple truth is Apple products were better with him around. He was tireless in ensuring that a product did exactly what it was supposed to to. Nothing more, nothing less, and that is a painful process... But it was something he was good at.
-
Was every six months, and up until quite recently I believe, the law was still applicable in California. I think the longest you can go now without plates is 90 days.
You had a 6 month window to put plates on a car, so Jobs would just trade his back for a new one in the time period. Apparently he wasn't the only one at Apple to do it either.
http://jalopnik.com/5853923/the-real-reason-why-steve-jobs-drove-without-a-license-plate
-
Steve Jobs was a weird arsehole... His biography goes into great detail about that. But the simple truth is Apple products were better with him around. He was tireless in ensuring that a product did exactly what it was supposed to to. Nothing more, nothing less, and that is a painful process... But it was something he was good at.
When he wasn't there they became the same anonymous, corporate jumble of random pros and cons as you get from every single other consumer electronic manufacturer who put out products of meaningless differentiation and/or incremental stat creep.
Any company ruled by shareholders puppet-mastering executives who are just cashing a paycheck and willing to simply "not lose" rather than set their sights on "winning", companies who lack a singular vision, tyrannical or otherwise, will produce nothing of real note except by accident.
They will put no dent in the universe. He put many.
-
Fanboy Alert!
They will put no dent in the universe. He put many.
He made a lot of bad decisions as well as the good ones.
One of your "dents" has to include the dents I made in the walls with my head while servicing Apple IIIs.
Thanks to Jobs (who insisted on an aluminum die cast case) these monsters regularly unseated their socketed chips from repeated thermal expansion and contraction.
The proto-Mac Lisa was almost as overpriced as the Xerox hardware it was copied from, and failed miserably.
Anyone still have a Newton?
I could go on...
Dents? Yeah, dents, dings, and the occasional clunk.
But great marketing.
After all, what really differentiates their products?
-
Still with all the failures Apple is the largest computer company on earth...
-
Fanboy Alert!
And hater conflator alert. The Newton was a product under Sculley and was among the first projects killed upon Jobs' return to Apple.
He was right about heading towards a quieter running system and based on those failures we have successful products of evolution. Anyone else is happy to keep making the same crap over and over again.
I wonder how many A4000D's are still operational. We experienced 100% failure rate from poor thermal design at DD and that was from a more conventional design and layout. It wouldn't take much to point out engineering foibles in almost every post-2000 Amiga desktop system, if one were so inclined, before getting to the let downs in the later chips. A500s unseated chips. A3000s were thermally better but an awful design from a maintenance standpoint, though nothing compared to what you'd get from Dell in the '90s, or pretty much any compact mini-tower PC.
It's either ignorant or disingenuous to poo-poo the LISA and Jobs while enjoying this website, any website, while enjoying an Amiga, a GUI, MorphOS, movies with visual effects, CG animated features, smart phones in America...
I could go on.
-
Still with all the failures Apple is the largest computer company on earth...
Fair enough.
From what I remember, Apple first, HP second.
And Apple is the sole manufacturer of OSX systems, while HP makes only a fraction of the Windows PCs marketed.
Further, although I'm no big Windows fan, systems running Windows greatly outsell OSX systems.
Finally, size is no measure of quality, after all McDonald's is one of the world's largest fast food chains (I'd still prefer a burger from Five Guys).
-
They must really trust new car owners in California.. If someone should run over a kid whatever in the first couple months and then decides to drive of, it must be extremely hard for the authorities to trace that car even if there was witnesses.
-
It's either ignorant or disingenuous to poo-poo the LISA and Jobs while enjoying this website, any website, while enjoying an Amiga, a GUI, MorphOS, movies with visual effects, CG animated features, smart phones in America...
I could go on.
You could...but I'd have a hard time reading further from the laughter.
You certainly do give this guy way too much credit.
-
Apple would have hit their pinnacle of tech innovation with the Newton if Jobs didn't come back.
Seriously, all their tech while he was gone was utter, regurgitated crap, lol. Sculley drove Apple into the ground, and while there's a lot of gripes to be made about Jobs on a personal level, he DID get them back on the path. he was an arsehole, but he also was a perfectionist. 10 different variants of overpriced, underpowered Quadra's wouldn't have done it for Apple under Sculley.
Anyone saying Apple would have done the iPod without Jobs' crew at the wheel is insane, and that project alone got them to their dominant, albeit elitist uber hipster position they now hold.
Without Jobs they would have just made another cookie cutter MP3 player versus inventing the ipod, which virtually destroyed the competition of the day, as did the iphone and ipad when they came out.
Jobs and Ive saved Apple from a very rapid. very public and very painful death. Sculley would have destroyed what was left of Apple in a matter of months, and their market value shows it in spades from back then. I remember when the ipod came out, I had a $600 20 GB Nomad Jukebox I just loved. I tried an ipod when they came out and never used the Nomad again, literally - the ipod was just so, so much better.
That being said, Jobs was no inventive genius. He wasn't an engineer, but he did know how to absolutely put the fear of God into his crew in regards to making very good products.
-
Fear of Steve Jobs = Fear of God
Therefore, Jobs = God? :angry:
I don't really get the whole iPod thing.
But then I've never really liked the MP3 format.
Whenever possible, I've left audio uncompressed or used FLAC.
But let's give credit where due, the success of the iPod and iTunes is remarkable (and, for me, a little hard to grasp).
Then again, the company does know how to market slickly polished, appliance like electronics.
That probably explains why the only Apple product I've found vaguely interesting was the Mac Pro.
Its about the only Apple product with real hacker appeal.
-
@Sean Cunningham
Apple has done very well for themselves. But Jobs can't be thanked or credited for the Amiga existence. He rejected it at the time and preferred the black and white slow as hell overprice Classic Mac. I'm sure Apple benifited and learned a thing or two from the Amiga over the years. Jobs went out of his way to never mention the Amiga. Hoping to wipe its ever existing from everyone's memory. The Woz was a little kinder about mentioning Amiga.
-
You have to like Wozniak.
Unlike Jobs, Woz is a true hacker (and the designer of their original hardware).
Of the three common 68K based machines of my youth, the Amiga, the ST, and the Mac, the Mac is the system that holds the least appeal for me.
-
The Mac incorporated a lot of really interesting, innovative ideas in its day. Unfortunately, most of the really good stuff either never caught on with anyone else (the Resource Manager and the forked filesystem,) or has since been forgotten (intuitive, heavily standardized UI) - especially now that Mac OS is just BSD with a shiny skin on it.
-
There are bad and good stories about Steve Jobs that span his lifetime but we don't really consider how he changed over the years.
He admitted that he made plenty of mistakes and changed his mind often.
He hired superb people as his execs and the successful ones stay or return for long periods, much higher than the silicon valley average.
I think his greatest decisions were to allow Jonny Ive to really hone the product design craft, to be part of the process and to give freedom to Tim Cook when he first joined Apple.
However, Apple now seems more balanced with Tim Cook, who seems to be almost the mirror image of Steve Jobs. Tim has done to management what Steve did to products. If Steve let the managers manage then Tim seems to let the producers produce.
I'd love to see Tim demo a product he users day to day not as the CEO but as a user. Apparently he really likes to use the AppleTV daily so I hope to see him demo the new system.
-
any website, while enjoying an Amiga, a GUI, MorphOS, movies with visual effects, CG animated features, smart phones in America...
Neither Jobs personally nor Apple invented any of those things. Apple have always made overpriced rubbish products, and that didn't change when Jobs returned. The most significant change he made was to more or less completely take away the rights of the users of his products, eg. DRM everywhere, no filesystem, no USB ports, disallowing rollback of OS updates, disallowing open source, paying $99 to run your own software on your own device, telling you what languages you can and can't use, etc. If he had retired/died sooner it would have been a better thing for the industry and for society in general.
-
Neither Jobs personally nor Apple invented any of those things...
Here's a history lesson for you then. Also, a suggestion to read a little more carefully. I'm mostly talking about Jobs himself, though you do have Apple to thank for the proliferation of the smart phone in America. Not the bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! that Motorola and everyone else had been pedaling while Asia had been enjoying even smarter phones than we have now since the '90s at least.
The Web began life on NeXT.
Regardless of the "black hardware" being a niche within a niche, OpenStep powered the proliferation of large scale web development. And now every Mac is running NeXT software which is and always has been what Linux would like to be on the desktop some day. Only the most unenlightened point at the failure of the black hardware as truly significant. He won and actually accomplished more in the end than simply starting a new company to compete with the company that he founded that fired him.
One could argue that The Web would have been invented on something else. Newsflash, it wasn't. Speculate all you want about woulda-shoulda-coulda.
Pixar started life as a department of Lucasfilm but Lucas didn't see a future in what Ed Catmull and John Lassetter and his crew were doing so they spun off with the help of Jobs who would end up owning 70% of the company initially and then 100% some years later after repeated capital investment to keep it going while they continued developing Photorealistic Renderman, which popularized procedural shading, vastly increased the quality of shading in general, pushing forward the art and science of CGI as a whole. PRman would power not only the first ever feature length animated film but the first ever computer generated image to be widely judged as indistinguishable from a photograph as well as the highest levels of photoreal visual effects for over a decade with virtually no competition.
One of my disappointments with the initial release of OSX was the fact that Photorealistic Renderman was no longer part of the OS like it was on NeXT. On my NeXTStation Turbo Color it was built in and offered a lot of functionality that wasn't found in the SGI, Sun or Mac versions of Renderman. By this time though, I think Pixar was in the black to nearly $5B in cash thanks to the successes of their films distributed by Disney and a single seat of Renderman to every other customer cost roughly twice the pricetag of the most expensive Mac you could buy at the time so they couldn't just go around giving it away anymore like when Jobs was trying to sell "black hardware".
Whatever to the rest of that rubbish you're talking about.
It's all kinds of ironic and funny to me so many Amigans talking trash while "next generation" Amigas are often what one could consider old Mac hardware. I see the Amiga equivalent to Sharia Law is alive and well, hah-hah.
-
You have to like Wozniak.
Unlike Jobs, Woz is a true hacker (and the designer of their original hardware).
Of the three common 68K based machines of my youth, the Amiga, the ST, and the Mac, the Mac is the system that holds the least appeal for me.
True, and it's too bad that Woz didn't and still doesn't realize what a tool he was for Jobs. He still doesn't understand that Jobs exploited his work and left him standing in the shadows, but that is what Jobs excelled at....stealing the work of others and taking credit for it.
-
...hah-hah.
Don't you mean "ha-ha"?
When he kicked old ladies he had runners and a turtle-neck on yeah? If so, what a monster.
-
The Mac incorporated a lot of really interesting, innovative ideas in its day. Unfortunately, most of the really good stuff either never caught on with anyone else (the Resource Manager and the forked filesystem,) or has since been forgotten (intuitive, heavily standardized UI) - especially now that Mac OS is just BSD with a shiny skin on it.
Actually of the original Mac... Only the GUI was really interesting...
And modern Mac are not just "BSD with a shiny interface", they are in fact NeXTStep machines. Vastly superior to the original Mac.
-
The GUI was not an apple invention, they "borrowed" that from xerox.
Althoug using the name Lisa, Jobs never really acknowledged having a daughter, even though her name is Lisa.
Jobs almost caused Apple to go belly-up.
Apple was never first with any thing, but they were good at "borrowing" form others and selling it as their own.
Apple became what they advertised wouldn't happen.. 1984
-
Actually of the original Mac... Only the GUI was really interesting...
And modern Mac are not just "BSD with a shiny interface", they are in fact NeXTStep machines. Vastly superior to the original Mac.
So superior, in fact, that they've dropped back to a core OS from the '70s.
-
So superior, in fact, that they've dropped back to a core OS from the '70s.
What's wrong with that? Toilet paper was introduced in 1857, and we still use it :p
-
The difference is that toilet paper is a good design.
-
The difference is that toilet paper is a good design.
If it's such a great design why can you only use half of it (one side) and then throw it away?
-
The difference is that toilet paper is a good design.
:roflmao:
-
True, and it's too bad that Woz didn't and still doesn't realize what a tool he was for Jobs. He still doesn't understand that Jobs exploited his work and left him standing in the shadows, but that is what Jobs excelled at....stealing the work of others and taking credit for it.
I'm liking you more by the minute.
Woz was never that interested in the sales and marketing side of the business that Jobs focused on.
Of the two, Wozniak was a creator of original ideas.
You're right, Jobs just exploited the work of others.
-
Here's a history lesson for you then. Also, a suggestion to read a little more carefully. I'm mostly talking about Jobs himself, though you do have Apple to thank for the proliferation of the smart phone in America. Not the bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! that M*torola and everyone else had been pedaling while Asia had been enjoying even smarter phones than we have now since the '90s at least.
M*torola phones are crap, we can agree on that at least.
Whatever to the rest of that rubbish you're talking about.
The topic, if you actually bothered to read the title of the thread, is Jobs' ethics. My succint comments about his DRM-encumbered crap are more relevant in that context than your fanboy rambling and inaccurate statements about NeXT and rendering software.
-
Here's a history lesson for you then...
Revisionist history at best.
"The Web began life on NeXT."
Seriously?
No. The Web was just a natural evolution of the internet.
NeXT hardware played a role, but not one that couldn't have been carried out on other equipment.
Were NeXT machines nice development platforms? Of course. Other preferred SGI hardware, personally I like Sun. Underneath, all based on very similar OS'.
None of them particularly startling in their originality.
And, as to your snide comments about Amiga fanatics, a very valid point was made earlier about Amiga having color graphics when Mac was just black and white (and it might be added stereo sound as well).
Frankly, you're just as tiresome as the Amiga fanatics.
You all argue from fixed points of view.
But the facts don't back up any of you.
-
What's wrong with that? Toilet paper was introduced in 1857, and we still use it :p
And we've been using the even superior method of washing our arses since ~600CE. :P
-
And we've been using the even superior method of washing our arses since ~600CE. :P
AND wiping with your left hand, after all, you shake hands and eat with your right.
-
AND wiping with your left hand, after all, you shake hands and eat with your right.
Iggy, if Steve Jobs were still around, in his presence you'd be wiping his ass with your toilet paper. What have you done for computing at large, better or worse? NOTHING. What do you cherish? Some old school PPC machines?!! A G5 Mac no less? You make me laugh. Rotting in the earth Steve Jobs is still doing more than you. Don't bother replying, I wont check. BTW, Amiga.org has been %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! for years.
-
Iggy, if Steve Jobs were still around, in his presence you'd be wiping his ass with your toilet paper. What have you done for computing at large, better or worse? NOTHING. What do you cherish? Some old school PPC machines?!! A G5 Mac no less? You make me laugh. Rotting in the earth Steve Jobs is still doing more than you. Don't bother replying, I wont check. BTW, Amiga.org has been %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! for years.
Wow, just wow......that's about the most immature and inaccurate comment I've ever seen here at Amiga.org and that says a lot about the author.
-
AND wiping with your left hand, after all, you shake hands and eat with your right.
Well I tend to use a knife/fork/spoon myself but that is correct.
Thankfully we have soap these days too. :lol:
-
So what do you do with the spoils once you're finished spooning or forking your rectum? Deposit it in the toilet? Put the cutlery in the dishwasher?
-
Wow, just wow......that's about the most immature and inaccurate comment I've ever seen here at Amiga.org and that says a lot about the author.
It isn't that important to me what he thinks.
I definitely did not play the kind of role Jobs did in the industry.
Although the firm I was working for in the '80's did build multitasking 68K based systems with an X-Windows based GUI.
Unlike higher priced Amiga and Apple offerings, our base four user system started at slightly less than $1000.
As Apple and PC systems have become essentially identical commodity priced appliances, I miss the days when hardware was more diverse.
However, once everything reached a fairly high of competence, the particulars became somewhat irrelevant.
Buying a computer these days is about as exciting as shopping for an air conditioner.
Software COULD make a difference, BUT OSX offers no real advantage over any competing solution. So if you want to pay a premium for your perceptions...
Anyway, at least insulting Steve these days doesn't get you a phone call (thanks to the fact that he's DEAD).
I still remember the conversations I had with the producer of the film "The Hurt Locker" after making the mistake of calling him a whiner online.
AND he had a point (film makers invest money to make a profit, without that, no high budget films).
So, if Steve is to be missed, maybe its not so much for his well polished, if stolen, product ideas.
Its those random phone calls that he would make in his defense that are to be admired.
"Intense personality" has many definitions (not all good), but Jobs was definitely intense.
-
So what do you do with the spoils once you're finished spooning or forking your rectum? Deposit it in the toilet? Put the cutlery in the dishwasher?
The cutlery is for eating as opposed to using "the right hand" as Iggy suggested.
We wash our arses with soap and water using the left hand after taking a crap, likewise our genitals after urinating.
The smell on public transport from the unwashed sh1t smeared arses and p1ss stained underwear is awful, especially during the summer months.
I don't think the smell is noticed by those dirty unwashed people though.
-
Computers are now consumption devices, be it tablet, laptop or desktop. Most people just want music, facebook and pictures. But it was the same thing with the automobile or any other piece of technology. I know people who do amazingly creative things with just an iPad and people who do nothing but gaming on 8 -12 core behemoths. I know the reverse too. Computers are ubiquitous. We don't even think about them now.
-
Computers are now consumption devices, be it tablet, laptop or desktop. Most people just want music, facebook and pictures. But it was the same thing with the automobile or any other piece of technology. I know people who do amazingly creative things with just an iPad and people who do nothing but gaming on 8 -12 core behemoths. I know the reverse too. Computers are ubiquitous. We don't even think about them now.
+1
Computers are now no different to any other tool.
-
Water pre-dates Islam. Iranians have been using water to clean themselves long before the Arabs came in and tried to destroy the country.
-
Water pre-dates Islam. Iranians have been using water to clean themselves long before the Arabs came in and tried to destroy the country.
OK...now we're down to arguing who figured out how to wash their asses first.
I didn't mind when this got personal, because I'm pretty resilient.
But this is getting a little silly.
BTW - Wouldn't it be nice if the Arabs and the Iranians both got back to the noble ideals they maintained in centuries past?
-
The GUI was not an apple invention, they "borrowed" that from xerox.
Jobs paid Xerox for the right for his team to visit the PARCS development project... The PARCS people weren't happy about that, but the Xerox managment were happy for the shares in Apple :)
Jobs almost caused Apple to go belly-up.
John Scully actually... Jobs had left apple by 1985, and set up NeXT computers, which is the platform we now think of as a Mac.
-
Computers are ubiquitous. We don't even think about them now.
Maybe you don't. I do.
-
Maybe you don't. I do.
Como?
@bloodline - The OS'? Definitely NeXT. The hardware? Pure PC.
So Mac? A trademarked name.
-
Como?
@bloodline - The OS'? Definitely NeXT. The hardware? Pure PC.
Pure PC? And antiquated view, I run Apple's NeXT operating system on Macs and iPhones and iPads... It's the same OS, and some pretty exotic hardware, especially the iPhone 5S!
So Mac? A trademarked name.
Yeah the Mac is just a brand name, because the public wouldn't have bought an iNeXT Cube.
-
OK...now we're down to arguing who figured out how to wash their asses first.
I didn't mind when this got personal, because I'm pretty resilient.
But this is getting a little silly.
BTW - Wouldn't it be nice if the Arabs and the Iranians both got back to the noble ideals they maintained in centuries past?
Don't mind Persia Jim, he's an Aryan Supremacist and there's a lot of it about.
-
Maybe you don't. I do.
Personal computers maybe.
-
And we've been using the even superior method of washing our arses since ~600CE. :P
Yeah, but wouldn't you still use paper first to remove the worst of it? Wipe until there's nothing visible on the paper anymore, and then wash with water and soap?
-
http://www.cultofmac.com/2613/steve-jobs-still-parking-in-handicapped-spaces-the-pictures/
You must be a sick bastard to make fun of a sick man. He was very ill at that time, so of course he could use a handicap parking spot.
And he was brilliant. I love Amiga and Apple.
But the people behind Apple now have the world largest computer firm. Amiga? Oh they died because it was run by losers who knew sh** about business. Except for 2-3 years Amiga has always been a company diying.
Hope you get cancer and die and I'll post here and laugh... Get it stup**?
-
Yeah, but wouldn't you still use paper first to remove the worst of it? Wipe until there's nothing visible on the paper anymore, and then wash with water and soap?
Nah, the bidet blasts it away then we use soap.
Amiga.org: Always off-topic since 1997. :)
-
You must be a sick bastard to make fun of a sick man. He was very ill at that time, so of course he could use a handicap parking spot.
He was doing that long before he had any illness. The anecdote with Jean-Louis Gassee in the OP dates from the '80s.
Hope you get cancer and die and I'll post here and laugh... Get it stup**?
What a charming sentiment.
-
Nah, the bidet blasts it away then we use soap.
I think I'll go with the paper :lol:
-
http://www.cultofmac.com/2613/steve-jobs-still-parking-in-handicapped-spaces-the-pictures/
No one went to the moon in 69 (ever?), I don't have links but google plenty.
-
No one went to the moon in 69 (ever?), I don't have links but google plenty.
Wow. This thread has now utterly jumped the rails and turned into the Crazy Train...
-
I think I'll go with the paper :lol:
:lol: Just make sure you wash it after mate. ;)
-
No one went to the moon in 69 (ever?), I don't have links but google plenty.
This parrot is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone to meet its maker. This is a late parrot. It's a stiff. Bereft of life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the perch, it would be pushing up the daisies. It's rung down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-parrot.
-
Wow. This thread has now utterly jumped the rails and turned into the Crazy Train...
There is some credible but inconclusive evidence that NASA did not visit the moon. There are moon photos that appear doctored, questions of how film and astronauts made it unharmed through the Van Allen radiation belt and several mysterious deaths of people in the know. Faking it would have increased American "patriotism" with a fraction of the spending and problems fighting the Cold War. It's probably all a coincidence but knowing that our politicians and the CIA are capable of assassinations, false flag attacks on our cities (to start a war with Cuba) and spying and framing of even U.S. citizens for false crimes, I haven't ruled it out. We are supposed to be the good guys and yet some of the things our Obama-nation is still doing makes Steve Jobs look like a saint.
I don't see any advantage to trashing Steve Jobs reputation. It is what it is. He was an odd ball but influential from a product development and marketing standpoint. He was a successful visionary judging by sales although it's much easier to make money after you have it. Apple with Jobs in power has been one of the few companies to do well with quality products in the American market where cheap products usually do better. I have more respect for the influential visionaries that understood computers like Jay Miner and Dennis Ritchie. They made lasting contributions to the development of computers (and the benefit of mankind as well as the detriment) without the money catalyst.
Disclosure: I own AAPL in a retirement account.
-
There is some credible but inconclusive evidence that NASA did not visit the moon. There are moon photos that appear doctored, questions of how film and astronauts made it unharmed through the Van Allen radiation belt and several mysterious deaths of people in the know. Faking it would have increased American "patriotism" with a fraction of the spending and problems fighting the Cold War.
Stop.
Just...just stop.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Or, rather, you do - you're talking about completely idiotic conspiracy theories and the details thereof. However, the conspiracy theories are so off the rails it doesn't even merit consideration.
-
It's probably all a coincidence but knowing that our politicians and the CIA are capable of assassinations, red flag attacks on our cities (to start a war with Cuba) and spying and framing of even U.S. citizens for false crimes, I haven't ruled it out.
And yet we actually know about that stuff. Because the US government is absolutely terrible at keeping secrets. We've had a conspiracy going all the way up to the presidential level brought down because of a nosey socialite spotting a break-in from her hotel room; we've had another president impeached because he couldn't keep it in his pants and couldn't keep people from gabbing about it; all considerations of scientific plausibility aside, do you seriously think that this government could mount and actually succeed at such a massive, elaborate campaign of deception? By this point we'd have the catering receipts leaked to the press.
-
Good point, John.
And we didn't build and launch massive Saturn V rockets just to fake the rest.
That is patently silly.
-
Good point, John.
And we didn't build and launch massive Saturn V rockets just to fake the rest.
That is patently silly.
as
Ronald Reagan StarWars program was so good that the Berlin wall collapsed and the communim with it which is not bad.
Bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! in bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! out it also work without "bull"
Ok i'm out vive l 'Amerique
-
as
Ronald Reagan StarWars program was so good that the Berlin wall collapsed and the communim with it which is not bad.
Bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! in bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! out it also work without "bull"
Ok i'm out vive l 'Amerique
OK, I will agree that that was bull.
But primarily because an old employer of mine was a black listed former Nike engineer who lost his job when he and several other engineers pointed out the math that proved that the entire idea of missile interception was fatality flawed.
And...I never liked Reagan.
But we DID go to the moon.
Or did they somehow fake that launch I saw as a child.
Pretty damned convincing fake then.
Oh, and BTW, Oswald shot Kennedy.
-
This thread, which started with nothing but a tenuous connection to reality has long since that connection. It's a thread without a purpose, like much of this board. It's time I think to bring on the Spanish Lesbians™.
-
This thread, which started with nothing but a tenuous connection to reality has long since that connection. It's a thread without a purpose, like much of this board. It's time I think to bring on the Spanish Lesbians™.
Las Amigas, Si!
As long as they have properly washed their asses.
-
There is some credible but inconclusive evidence that NASA did not visit the moon. There are moon photos that appear doctored, questions of how film and astronauts made it unharmed through the Van Allen radiation belt and several mysterious deaths of people in the know. Faking it would have increased American "patriotism" with a fraction of the spending and problems fighting the Cold War. It's probably all a coincidence but knowing that our politicians and the CIA are capable of assassinations, false flag attacks on our cities (to start a war with Cuba) and spying and framing of even U.S. citizens for false crimes, I haven't ruled it out. We are supposed to be the good guys and yet some of the things our Obama-nation is still doing makes Steve Jobs look like a saint.
I don't see any advantage to trashing Steve Jobs reputation. It is what it is. He was an odd ball but influential from a product development and marketing standpoint. He was a successful visionary judging by sales although it's much easier to make money after you have it. Apple with Jobs in power has been one of the few companies to do well with quality products in the American market where cheap products usually do better. I have more respect for the influential visionaries that understood computers like Jay Miner and Dennis Ritchie. They made lasting contributions to the development of computers (and the benefit of mankind as well as the detriment) without the money catalyst.
Disclosure: I own AAPL in a retirement account.
If you stayed in the most intense area of the Van Allen for a few days you will die. Of course the astronauts were traveling 7 or 8 miles a second so they got a minor dose in the few minutes they were in the high radiation zone (and few hours they were in the lower radiation area). This and the dozen or so other "questions" have been answered many times by experts. I think Phil Plaitt (sp) has a break down of the common ones.
-
"The Web began life on NeXT."
Seriously?
No. The Web was just a natural evolution of the internet.
NeXT hardware played a role, but not one that couldn't have been carried out on other equipment.
I believe Tim Berners-Lee would disagree.
It was all about NeXT software not hardware:
I wrote the program using a NeXT computer. This had the advantage that there were some great tools available -it was a great computing environment in general. In fact, I could do in a couple of months what would take more like a year on other platforms, because on the NeXT, a lot of it was done for me already.
http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/WorldWideWeb.html (http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/WorldWideWeb.html)
-
I believe Tim Berners-Lee would disagree.
It was all about NeXT software not hardware:
http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/WorldWideWeb.html
OK...we already know the first browser was written for a NeXT box, AND now you've referenced the author of the browser.
And I still don't see how NeXT offered a vital advantage in creating a browser.
And this statement "At the time, the "X" close box was unique to NeXT" makes it sound like NeXT invented closing a Window which is silly.
-
OK...we already know the first browser was written for a NeXT box, AND now you've referenced the author of the browser.
And I still don't see how NeXT offered a vital advantage in creating a browser.
And this statement "At the time, the "X" close box was unique to NeXT" makes it sound like NeXT invented closing a Window which is silly.
Interface Builder, Objective-C and the NextStep framework I suppose, he didn't say it was impossible on other platform, just that it'll take a lot more time. Now all of this exist on the Mac/iOS platforms Kamelito
-
OK...we already know the first browser was written for a NeXT box, AND now you've referenced the author of the browser.
And I still don't see how NeXT offered a vital advantage in creating a browser.
And this statement "At the time, the "X" close box was unique to NeXT" makes it sound like NeXT invented closing a Window which is silly.
TBL not only created the first browser but also the first server and the first web pages. He and Robert Cailliau created the concept of www:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web)
TBL was working at CERN where he could probably use any system available at that time on the market but for that project he choose NeXT.
I suppose programming tools available on NeXT must have been simply better for the task.
-
OK...we already know the first browser was written for a NeXT box, AND now you've referenced the author of the browser.
Which answers your question really...
And I still don't see how NeXT offered a vital advantage in creating a browser.
Until you have had a chance to play with either OpenStep, GNUStep or Cocoa, I guess you'll never know.
The maturity of the aforementioned frameworks and the simplicity of the InterfaceBuilder coupled with the runtime flexibility of Objective-C make development of complex software (like a web browser) rather simple.
-
Which answers your question really...
Until you have had a chance to play with either OpenStep, GNUStep or Cocoa, I guess you'll never know.
The maturity of the aforementioned frameworks and the simplicity of the InterfaceBuilder coupled with the runtime flexibility of Objective-C make development of complex software (like a web browser) rather simple.
I guess I'm just too jaded having worked with fairly decent GUIs when Win 3.0 was just being introduced and, of course working with some talented programmers.
While I can see the advantages, I can can also see it just would have been more work on another platform.
-
I guess I'm just too jaded having worked with fairly decent GUIs when Win 3.0 was just being introduced and, of course working with some talented programmers.
While I can see the advantages, I can can also see it just would have been more work on another platform.
NeXTStep was the first of the modern operating systems (perhaps BEOS was the second?), operating systems built from the ground up using object oriented paradigms. Where Model-View-Controler abstractions were rigidly enforced, where complex applications could built quickly from a large well developed frameworks with little need to understand how the frameworks worked and no fear that an OS update would render your application broken, where event loops are a distant memory...
Even my (our) beloved AmigaOS feels old and clunky when compared to NeXTStep.
-
Which answers your question really...
Until you have had a chance to play with either OpenStep, GNUStep or Cocoa, I guess you'll never know.
The maturity of the aforementioned frameworks and the simplicity of the InterfaceBuilder coupled with the runtime flexibility of Objective-C make development of complex software (like a web browser) rather simple.
Are we arguing about the value of OOP or the absolute necessity of using the NeXT platform to build a web browser?
-
Are we arguing about the value of OOP or the absolute necessity of using the NeXT platform to build a web browser?
Weird, bloodline, I wrote that before I saw your last post.
In any case, whether the web was inevitable or not, the initial development WAS done on a NeXT system and that does deserve credit.
-
This thread makes me want to cancel my lifetime membership.
-
This thread makes me want to cancel my lifetime membership.
As long as you have properly washed your ass...
-
As long as you have properly washed your ass...
Franko, please come back! LOL!
-
Who cares what system was used so long ago.
If it had not been NeXT it would have been some thing else.
-
>At the time, the "X" close box was unique to NeXT
Ah, that's who to blame for that misguided idea then. "X" already is used to mean "cancel" which is quite different to "close". The only thing worse is the awful MacOS "blank circle next to two other blank circles".
-
Who cares what system was used so long ago.
If it had not been NeXT it would have been some thing else.
Thank you.
-
Franko, please come back! LOL!
I keep in touch with Frank,, he can be amusing.
Although his facination with squirrels borders on obcessive.
Keep in mind that a mod started this thread and it had a light hearted theme (if abusing a dead guy can be light hearted).
-
Who cares what system was used so long ago.
If it had not been NeXT it would have been some thing else.
With all due respect, this has to be the dumbest comment in the thread, and it has plenty of competition!
The point was that NeXT was the first proper object oriented operating system, designed that way from the ground up. As such building a complex application in NeXT was (and still is, in many respects) much easier and quicker than on competing systems.
If it wasn't for that ease and simplicity, the web may have taken much longer to be developed, and possibly not developed and certainly not in the open form we know today!
-
With all due respect, this has to be the dumbest comment in the thread, and it has plenty of competition!
The point was that NeXT was the first proper object oriented operating system, designed that way from the ground up. As such building a complex application in NeXT was (and still is, in many respects) much easier and quicker than on competing systems.
If it wasn't for that ease and simplicity, the web may have taken much longer to be developed, and possibly not developed and certainly not in the open form we know today!
Oh if only there'd been someone who could have conceived of hyper-media in a networked computer environment with a point and click interface. Thank God that Steve Jobs invented it all in 1983. Prior to that, we didn't even compute, we just beat rocks against each other hoping there was enough iron or tin in them to cause a spark that might leap to another rock, and so-on. Then the son of heaven descended upon us, having caused computers to literally condense from the very essence of his thoughts and graced us with a user interface literally no-one had ever dreamed of before.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDv-zdhzMY
(That's a guy who didn't mentally abuse people, park in handicapped spots, throw tantrums like a %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!lord, steal from people, or abandon his children. When I use a computer these days I'll consider his legacy, not that %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing dildo Jobs.)
-
Oh if only there'd been someone who could have conceived of hyper-media in a networked computer environment with a point and click interface. Thank God that Steve Jobs invented it all in 1983. Prior to that, we didn't even compute, we just beat rocks against each other hoping there was enough iron or tin in them to cause a spark that might leap to another rock, and so-on. Then the son of heaven descended upon us, having caused computers to literally condense from the very essence of his thoughts and graced us with a user interface literally no-one had ever dreamed of before.
Huh? Who said anything about Steve Jobs coming up with that? Bloodline was referring to the OOness of Next(Open)Step. Jobs was a fan of such an approach. I recall reading that Jobs mentioned that out of his visit to Xerox, he realised years later that not the GUI or networking was the most important aspect - rather it was the OO paradigm it was all built upon and the demo of Smalltalk-80 he was given.
No one said he invented it. He just wrapped up awesome concepts in a pretty cool package which thankfully survived into today's OS X / iOS systems.
-
Oh if only there'd been someone who could have conceived of hyper-media in a networked computer environment with a point and click interface. Thank God that Steve Jobs invented it all in 1983. Prior to that, we didn't even compute, we just beat rocks against each other hoping there was enough iron or tin in them to cause a spark that might leap to another rock, and so-on. Then the son of heaven descended upon us, having caused computers to literally condense from the very essence of his thoughts and graced us with a user interface literally no-one had ever dreamed of before.
Zing, sir.
-
With all due respect, this has to be the dumbest comment in the thread, and it has plenty of competition!
The point was that NeXT was the first proper object oriented operating system, designed that way from the ground up. As such building a complex application in NeXT was (and still is, in many respects) much easier and quicker than on competing systems.
If it wasn't for that ease and simplicity, the web may have taken much longer to be developed, and possibly not developed and certainly not in the open form we know today!
Lately, all you do is rabidly defend work that is a derivative of earlier research.
First Linux, and now this.
-
Lately, all you do is rabidly defend work that is a derivative of earlier research.
First Linux, and now this.
Um... Everything is derivative of earlier research. That's called development of technology.
I will defend something if people are delutionally being unfair about it. My only irrational hatred is towards Java, I'm quite sure Java is a great language and VM now but I just don't like it :)
-
Um... Everything is derivative of earlier research. That's called development of technology.
I will defend something if people are delutionally being unfair about it. My only irrational hatred is towards Java, I'm quite sure Java is a great language and VM now but I just don't like it :)
I actually agree with you on these points.
And while I don't particularly care about Java, Shockwave/Flash really pisses me off.
HTML5 just works so much better.
-
I will defend something if people are delutionally being unfair about it. My only irrational hatred is towards Java, I'm quite sure Java is a great language and VM now but I just don't like it :)
Java is a perfectly fine language. Unfortunately, it's a perfectly fine language that's chained to a terribly crappy runtime library and VM... :/
-
Java is a perfectly fine language. Unfortunately, it's a perfectly fine language that's chained to a terribly crappy runtime library and VM... :/
As I said my hatred is probably irrational, but coming from C/C++ and Obj-C I find Java horrible. I feel like I'm coding with boxing gloves on when I use it.
-
With all due respect, this has to be the dumbest comment in the thread, and it has plenty of competition!
The point was that NeXT was the first proper object oriented operating system, designed that way from the ground up. As such building a complex application in NeXT was (and still is, in many respects) much easier and quicker than on competing systems.
If it wasn't for that ease and simplicity, the web may have taken much longer to be developed, and possibly not developed and certainly not in the open form we know today!
With all due respect, this has to be the dumbest comment in the thread, and it has plenty of competition!
Its amazing how some people have to use arguments as "if this and that had or had not happened, then this and that would not have been, thus this and that..."
Look Steve Jobs was not the second coming of Jesus.
-
With all due respect, this has to be the dumbest comment in the thread, and it has plenty of competition!
Its amazing how some people have to use arguments as "if this and that had or had not happened, then this and that would not have been, thus this and that..."
Welcome to to the concept of cause and effect.
Look Steve Jobs was not the second coming of Jesus.
He might have been, I don't know, I'm not a Christian... But I honestly couldn't care less what Steve Jobs was or wasn't. I'm arguing about the importance of NeXTStep in the history of computing.
-
Java is a perfectly fine language. Unfortunately, it's a perfectly fine language that's chained to a terribly crappy runtime library and VM... :/
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/11/06/meet-art-part-1-the-new-super-fast-android-runtime-google-has-been-working-on-in-secret-for-over-2-years-debuts-in-kitkat/
-
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/11/06/meet-art-part-1-the-new-super-fast-android-runtime-google-has-been-working-on-in-secret-for-over-2-years-debuts-in-kitkat/
Precisely. In order to make it usable, Google just wound up throwing out everything but the language and building their own alternative from scratch. That tells you a lot about the library and VM, I think.
-
Precisely. In order to make it usable, Google just wound up throwing out everything but the language and building their own alternative from scratch. That tells you a lot about the library and VM, I think.
Indeed it does. It's wore bizarre really because it (the library) doesn't really provide anything that other libraries such as Cocoa, Qt or .NET provide yet it's a slow as molasses, bloated steaming pile of crap compared to those.
-
Welcome to to the concept of cause and effect.
He might have been, I don't know, I'm not a Christian... But I honestly couldn't care less what Steve Jobs was or wasn't. I'm arguing about the importance of NeXTStep in the history of computing.
Had Apple not bought NeXT then NeXTStep probably would have sadly faded into irrelevance like the Amiga, BeOS and Plan9.
But we'll never know.
One day I'll give ObjC yet another chance and it will finally click into place and I'll begin to love it. Maybe. :)
Steve Jobs was a dick. So are the CEO's of every other Fortune500 company. That's what makes them the best at what they do. There's a very fine line between successful CEO and Sociopath.
-
Had Apple not bought NeXT then NeXTStep probably would have sadly faded into irrelevance like the Amiga, BeOS and Plan9.
But we'll never know.
One could argue (and I will, ;) ) that had Apple not bought NeXTStep, then probably apple would have faded into irrelevance.
The alternative on the table at the time as BeOS, but that lacked any real software at the time, had no real world usage and wasn't a mature software platform. Plus the NeXTStep deal meant that Apple got Steve Jobs back, and he was the only arsehole capable of fighting Bill Gate.
One day I'll give ObjC yet another chance and it will finally click into place and I'll begin to love it. Maybe. :)
Once you get over the syntax (which took me months), it really is awesome... That said all my recent work has been in Obj-C++, which gives me the best of both worlds :)
-
The alternative on the table at the time as BeOS, but that lacked any real software at the time, had no real world usage and wasn't a mature software platform.
Had BeOS gotten the spot as the official successor to classic Mac OS, that would've changed drastically. The Mac was still far less of a niche market at that time, so there would've been plenty of development for it. Such a pity they didn't go that route...if they had, I'd still be a Mac user myself.
-
Had BeOS gotten the spot as the official successor to classic Mac OS, that would've changed drastically. The Mac was still far less of a niche market at that time, so there would've been plenty of development for it. Such a pity they didn't go that route...if they had, I'd still be a Mac user myself.
I too like BeOS, and used BeOS 5PE for about a year between 2001-2002. But in 1996, it was nothing but a lot of good ideas, promises and hot air... NeXTStep offered a mature, stable, proven platform with an extensive software and developer base. For the money BeOS were demanding from Apple, they weren't able to offer much.
In the end the NeXT deal worked out best for Apple, they got a solid OS, a first class/mature engineering team, a competent CEO and a software platform surprisingly well suited to the mobile devices that eventually came to dominate their product line up.
-
Everything is better with bacon.
(http://cdn4.vtourist.com/4/2462631-The_meatiest_and_tastiest_rashers_of_bacon_ever_Adelaide.jpg)
-
I've got a VM around here with OpenSTEP installed on it, somewhere...may be archived in some dusty corner of a HD.
-
Everything is better with bacon.
Meat, HAH!
I prefer juicy prunes and big melons :D
-
Everything is better with bacon.
(http://cdn4.vtourist.com/4/2462631-The_meatiest_and_tastiest_rashers_of_bacon_ever_Adelaide.jpg)
I love bacon!
And prunes are revolting.
Come to think of it, vegetarianism is rather gross.
Not that I don't like fruits and vegetables, but try and keep me from meat and I'll eat a vegetarian.
-
everything is better with bacon.
شعورت بيشتر از اين نميرسه. جواب انسان ابلهي مثل تو، خاموشي است. قاعده كلي ام اينه كه وقتم رو براي فردي كه حد متوسط شعورش :)
-
شعورت بيشتر از اين نميرسه. جواب انسان ابلهي مثل تو، خاموشي است. قاعده كلي ام اينه كه وقتم رو براي فردي كه حد متوسط شعورش :)
I don't know what this means, and I'm too tired to google... But I do like bacon (frankly, the only thing stopping me being vegetarian actually)... It's not for everyone one though, it's all for me!! :)
-
شعورت بيشتر از اين نميرسه. جواب انسان ابلهي مثل تو، خاموشي است. قاعده كلي ام اينه كه وقتم رو براي فردي كه حد متوسط شعورش
Don't worry. Google only mutilates this and makes it unintelligible.
-
شعورت بيشتر از اين نميرسه. جواب انسان ابلهي مثل تو، خاموشي است. قاعده كلي ام اينه كه وقتم رو براي فردي كه حد متوسط شعورش
Don't worry. Google only mutilates this and makes it unintelligible.
Did you know that I'm allergic to molluscs? Octopus, squid, muscles, oysters, clams and snails all poisonous to to me, it's very difficult being in a relationship with a Chinese woman :-/
-
Did you know that I'm allergic to molluscs? Octopus, squid, muscles, oysters, clams and snails all poisonous to to me, it's very difficult being in a relationship with a Chinese woman :-/
You should come to Australia. You would have fun with our wildlife! English people are so funny when they come here - they are terrified of everything!
-
You should come to Australia. You would have fun with our wildlife! English people are so funny when they come here - they are terrified of everything!
Correction Kesa, everyone except Australians is terrified of Australian wildlife.
-
I love bacon!
And prunes are revolting.
My comment is just a joke that you obviously didn't get. Pity, because now I had to read your typical meat freak comments :(
Come to think of it, vegetarianism is rather gross.
Nah, killing animals for stuff we don't need is gross.
Not that I don't like fruits and vegetables, but try and keep me from meat and I'll eat a vegetarian.
A meat addict! How pathetic!
-
What can we say? Meat is delicious!
-
A meat addict! How pathetic!
The term is carnivore.
And while quite omnivorous, I'm not giving up that part of my diet as "unnecessary".
Every other hominid in our prehistoric past that adopted an all vegetarian diet died out (probably eaten by their carnivorous relatives).
Evolution has apparently favored the more aggressive.
Apparently our senses of humor don't mesh, as I have been prodding you as well.
Oh and I don't think I'll feel too pathetic eating the steak I've set aside for tomorrow's dinner, just satiated.
BTW - Do you wash YOUR ass?
-
Apparently our senses of humor don't mesh
Oh come on, you don't know what 'big melons' means? Sure you do. Now, what is implied by 'juicy prunes'?
-
Oh come on, you don't know what 'big melons' means? Sure you do. Now, what is implied by 'juicy prunes'?
Hemorrhoids obviously. ;)
-
Hemorrhoids obviously. ;)
Unfortunately, thanks to a local Gay owned donut shop called "The Fractured Prune" that is what comes to mind if "juicy prune" is mentioned.
But I don't want to piss off Thorham.
"Juicy peach" would have worked.
Man, I'd think we were way off target, until I remember that I've likened Jobs and a prune to the same thing
-
Unfortunately, thanks to a local Gay owned donut shop called "The Fractured Prune" that is what comes to mind if "juicy prune" is mentioned.
But I don't want to piss off Thorham.
"Juicy peach" would have worked.
Man, I'd think we were way off target, until I remember that I've likened Jobs and a prune to the same thing
We aren't too far off topic as Jobs was a cnut. ;)