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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: Trev on April 15, 2010, 09:47:30 PM
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Here's a bit of speculation that I haven't seen posted yet, though I may have missed it, from http://stevecheney.posterous.com/the-genius-in-apples-vertical-platform by way of Slashdot:
This analysis is not yet mainstream, but will add tremendous fuel to the fire that perhaps the A4 is NOT an ARM architecture. In fact, it’s highly possible that the A4 is a dual core Power Architecture, which is what the PA Semi team worked with, prior to Apple buying them in 2007.
What's funny is that if this is true, then a PowerPC-native iPhone OS 4.0 will very quickly replace AmigaOS 4.x as the operating system behind the "OS4" moniker. ;-)
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It is ARM, I have written an App for it :)
Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C0PNrUC9jE
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That's part of the speculation, though--that the current tools compile for ARM and the code runs on an emulator, paving the way for iPhone OS 4.0 and the XCode stack to support native PowerPC binaries. EDIT: Can't watch the vid at work. Will have to look later....
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That's part of the speculation, though--that the current tools compile for ARM and the code runs on an emulator, paving the way for iPhone OS 4.0 and the XCode stack to support native PowerPC binaries. EDIT: Can't watch the vid at work. Will have to look later....
I have to specify the architecture when producing a binary, and I know that my App wouldn't run very well on an emulator (my gfx engine is totally CPU, no OpenGL yet).
The iPad is an ARM Cortex-A8 :)
-Edit- The iPad's CPU runs twice as fast as the iPhone 3GS... and a quick check on the internal timer in my App, shows that the code is running about twice as fast on the iPad as the iPhone.
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Or, Apple could have implemented a very effective emulation. You wouldn't necessarily have a way to determine this within your app. Or you could be right. Either way, it's a fun bit of speculation. ;-)
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Or, Apple could have implemented a very effective emulation. You wouldn't necessarily have a way to determine this within your app. Or you could be right. Either way, it's a fun bit of speculation. ;-)
If they have, then Apple tech is far far in advanced of the rest of the world! :)
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You never know. Video recording was sprung on an unsuspecting audience at a radio and television industry conference, for example, and while dynamic recompilation was in use as early as the 1970's, the UltraHLE Nintendo 64 emulator still caught the gaming industry completely off guard.
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It's an ARM based CPU designed by the people formerly of PASemi, which apple bought up for 278M USD a few years ago.
I don't imagine those guys would have any problem designing ARM based processors any more than they did PPC ones.
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It is ARM, I have written an App for it :)
Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C0PNrUC9jE
I never knew you were an oriental lady's thumb (just watched cutiemish's related link).
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I never knew you were an oriental lady's thumb (just watched cutiemish's related link).
I have a reply to that... but this is a family board ;)
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I have a reply to that... but this is a family board ;)
That's never stopped you before oh glorious Sock Master :lol:
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@Karlos
Which would make it not an ARM Cortex-A8. Still possible, though, since the PA Semi folks had experience with numerous architectures, yeah? Apple has extensive experience with PowerPC, ARM, and dynamic recompilation. I'm definitely not a PowerPC zealot, but a move back to the architecture would be interesting in terms of setting Apple apart from the competition (although it's certainly already capable of doing that using commodity chips).
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@Karlos
Which would make it not an ARM Cortex-A8. Still possible, though, since the PA Semi folks had experience with numerous architectures, yeah? Apple has extensive experience with PowerPC, ARM, and dynamic recompilation. I'm definitely not a PowerPC zealot, but a move back to the architecture would be interesting in terms of setting Apple apart from the competition (although it's certainly already capable of doing that using commodity chips).
It has to be an A8, no other ARM core goes that fast, except the A9... But Apple are not using the A9 :(
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I don't really get why the designers being PASemi preclude the A4 being an ARM based CPU.
Whatever hardware design principles they used in the design of their ultra low power PPC processor could equally be applied to an ARM processor, surely?
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That's never stopped you before oh glorious Sock Master :lol:
Indeed :)
Say, does your co-developer know about this sordid history? What's it worth to keep schtum?
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I don't really get why the designers being PASemi preclude the A4 being an ARM based CPU.
Whatever hardware design principles they used in the design of their ultra low power PPC processor could equally be applied to an ARM processor, surely?
We should also remember that PASemi was actually founded by the chief architect for the StrongARM project.
But, from the SDK, it is clear the iPad is the same family of hardware (CPU and gfx cores) as the iPhone. Apple isn't psychotic enough to have a third architecture on the go.
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We should also remember that PASemi was actually founded by the chief architect for the StrongARM project.
But, from the SDK, it is clear the iPad is the same family of hardware (CPU and gfx cores) as the iPhone. Apple isn't psychotic enough to have a third architecture on the go.
Sorry all this talk of getting semi inside ( is this possible) and Strong arm :)
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Indeed :)
Say, does your co-developer know about this sordid history? What's it worth to keep schtum?
Actually the game does have a sock related easter egg :) you just have to find it!
She knows my sordid past... There is no "hiding the sock" from your other half :lol:
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Sorry all this talk of getting semi inside ( is this possible) and Strong arm :)
:lol:
Touché!
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To quote Finnbar Saunders, "yip! yip!"
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And would your Personel Assistant approve :)
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It's an ARM based CPU designed by the people formerly of PASemi, which apple bought up for 278M USD a few years ago.
I don't imagine those guys would have any problem designing ARM based processors any more than they did PPC ones.
Actually the CPU is a 45nm shrink of the 65nm 3GS CPU, although it has more L2 cache. It is made by Samsung. It's probably an Intrinsity design, as Intrinsity developed the 3GS SoC for Samsung, and Apple bought them recently.
http://www.chipworks.com/A4_is_Samsung_45nm.aspx
"What we found was an APL0398 chip, presumably the next-generation processor from the APL0298 that we found in the iPhone 3GS. "
You don't replace an ARM Cortex A8 with a PowerPC core, and then redo all the internal hardware and buses to account for the different architecture, and them keep the product code virtually the same.
Also there's no evidence of an emulator.
The performance increase is perfectly explained by the faster CPU and extra L2 cache.
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Very, very sneaky indeed, they replace the whole internals with incompatible hardware and then wrote an emulator to hide the fact. It's a conspiracy I tell you, and they're all in on it.
You don't replace an ARM Cortex A8 with a PowerPC core, and then redo all the internal hardware and buses to account for the different architecture, and them keep the product code virtually the same.
Also there's no evidence of an emulator.
The performance increase is perfectly explained by the faster CPU and extra L2 cache.