News of Free 060 Like Apollo Core License

[Djole]

Trigger for me is:

"_FREE_ 68080 CORE that is
compatible with the 68040/68060 "

when it ISN'T!

It is maybe 68k-series compatible..  but it for sure is NOT 040/060 compatible.

as then it would have the FPU and MMU!..  it doesn't  

it might be 68EC040 and 68EC060 compatible.  but when I read 68040/060 I read the full deal    and this is important.

Its every time the same song.....

[Chucky]

and I am not alone..  especially not in the demoscene..

if it was 060..  I would buy 10 vampires today..  and I would love to be involved in any hw project using that FPGA core.

080.. no. not at all.    as it just simply doesn't do it for me.

And reading at the A1k thread etc I know I am far from alone.  and this is something that the vampire/apolloteam must understand.  we want our beta-max VCRs..  we do not want Bluray..   we use retromachines.

And what I understand.. Jens told in the A1k thread: not interested.
just of this reason.

it however was a nice reach-out from Gunnar.  absolutley..  but he and the vampire team takes critics waaay to personal.

[Djole]

Chucky... dont you feel like you are repeating yourself ?? You said it all in the first post, no need to repeat 10 times you are not interested. You are not forced to use or buy it, you keep your betamax. You can buy your 020 and 030 cards from Jens, enjoy them. Should Vampire users invade any post about his HW and repeat the same boring story about missing features and how they are not interested ??

[Chucky]

and it is reactions like this:  taking it personal..

I just want the lie about being 68040/68060 compatible,  it can fool people who thinks that they will get that.   and when they try to run enforcer/mungwall etc.. it will fail..

It is called false marketing..
And belive me.  there are always some vampireperson coming to discussionthreads about 040/060 etc that "no. the future is vampire"  while  sorry to say:it isn't..

the vampire is a neat way to boost your A600/500 and I recomend it to anyone wanting to use their old machines as a whdload machine..  it will be perfect for it..

for me as a demoscener: no..
for a replacement of 060: in most cases..   no  as if you want to go highend. why choose a sorry to say: crippled cpu?

I read at the a1k forum and it is interesting to see how Gunnar just misses the whole point when people ask about MMU etc.  telling that his MMU is better.  and it might be.  but with no software, noone cares.  but programmers are used to have their debuggingtools why suddenly be without them?  and wit no programmers.. who would use the new nifty functions?

and repeating myself?  well yes.  as there is always some vampireperson repeating that "vampire IS the thing everyone wants" but still completly ignores that there are many of us thinking the opposite.

I have told many times in different forums etc: if vampire was actually compatible (meaning ACTING like the real deal) I would buy 10.. (instead of that one I have. somewhere)

[psxphill]

I have told many times in different forums etc: if vampire was actually compatible (meaning ACTING like the real deal) I would buy 10.. (instead of that one I have. somewhere)

Yeah, I don't have a problem with gunnar getting his wet dreams over designing 68080. If he also had a mode where it would run as a 68040 or 68060 with fpu and mmu.

If he can't do it, then just release the 68080 source and let someone else do it. As he rightly points out "but we think shared joy is a double joy."

Until that happens, it's kinda boring. Drop in replacement cpus for next cube or 68k macs ftw.

[Hattig]

This thread is everything wrong with the Amiga scene.

Someone who hates something that somebody else has done that does't appeal to their purist ideals (despite the fact that the Moto 68k cores are very different, all have different FPU capabilities, and different MMU implementations), and they just can't stop pointing it out.

[Chucky]

Andbuy 020/030 cards from jens?  Nahh I did the reverseengineering of the 3640 and made the 060 for it as I hope the open community will do its magic..


and stuff IS happening.   so I am pretty sure we soon will have open 040/060 solutions.. but YES getting the cpus might be an issue.

[kolla]

I don't get what the big hoopla about this news is, nobody will license it anyways, waaay too risky.

[mikej]

I see two major issues with this.
1 - Gunnar is perhaps concerned about other projects/open source CPUs, and by offering the core to other vendors he hopes to gain market share, however isn't he hurting the guys who make the vampire hardware/stand alone? Surely you can't have it both ways.

2 - Throttled back to something slower than they can do - so bit of a second class citizen ? no thanks.

[Djole]

and it is reactions like this:  taking it personal..

I just want the lie about being 68040/68060 compatible,  it can fool people who thinks that they will get that.   and when they try to run enforcer/mungwall etc.. it will fail..

The people who are going to need/use Enforcer/Mungwall will know what features Apollo offers, belive me. 99% of the users dont even know know what it is, let alone use it.... And to be in your style I will repeat myself too, Apollo debugging tools are in the making.

It is called false marketing..
And belive me.  there are always some vampireperson coming to discussionthreads about 040/060 etc that "no. the future is vampire"  while  sorry to say:it isn't..

Yeah those people should be banned like the people intentionally derailing every Vampire thread.... This thread isnt about what you like or dont like, its about the offer Gunnar has made for the HW designers. I dont see the reason you are posting here at all. Why should any1 care what you are interested in or not ? If you said, "I am making a new Amiga Turbocard but i dont want to use Apollo core", that I would understand.

the vampire is a neat way to boost your A600/500 and I recomend it to anyone wanting to use their old machines as a whdload machine..  it will be perfect for it..

Wrong, anyone with any knowledge would recommend a 020 or 030 card with some ram for a whdload machine....

for me as a demoscener: no..
for a replacement of 060: in most cases..   no  as if you want to go highend. why choose a sorry to say: crippled cpu?

Performace wise, 080 is faster than any 060, integer AND floating point.... So obviously you are spreading misinformation here....

I read at the a1k forum and it is interesting to see how Gunnar just misses the whole point when people ask about MMU etc.  telling that his MMU is better.  and it might be.  but with no software, noone cares.  but programmers are used to have their debuggingtools why suddenly be without them?  and wit no programmers.. who would use the new nifty functions?

Vampire has kickstarted many Amiga sw projects, not only usable on Apollo core and many more are in the pipeline....

and repeating myself?  well yes.  as there is always some vampireperson repeating that "vampire IS the thing everyone wants" but still completly ignores that there are many of us thinking the opposite.

Maybe you should set the example and stop. WE all got the point, you dont want a Vampire.

[kolla]

In time it would be lovely to able to replace the core on V2 cards with something more tinker friendly

[Hattig]

and noncompatible MMU  while it states it IS compatible with the 040/060?

Strange..  is it compoatible or not?

Anyway..  no MMU stuff means no debuggingtools  meaning programmers avoid it meaning no software maning: no use of the bells and whistles..

FPGA is nice..and I would love it.. IF 060..

Most people understand 'compatibility' in a CPU to mean 'runs the same software'. The Apollo Core in Vampire appears to do that in the main. There is FPU support (however it is achieved), which is more than a lot of old Amigas ever had.

So it's the MMU, and one bit of software, Enforcer, that drives all the arguments. And if a developer uses that, then that is a problem, but plenty of developers do not use it. It's very niche software that most users won't need. But something to replace it would be nice.

Given the '060 doesn't behave like the '040, which doesn't behave like the '030, which doesn't behave like the 68000, we should stick with the latter?

You aren't going to get an FPGA '060 either, that would require a lot of reverse engineering, just to redo what has already been done.

I note that the vast majority of your posts here are anti-Vampire.

[Djole]

I see two major issues with this.
1 - Gunnar is perhaps concerned about other projects/open source CPUs, and by offering the core to other vendors he hopes to gain market share, however isn't he hurting the guys who make the vampire hardware/stand alone? Surely you can't have it both ways.

2 - Throttled back to something slower than they can do - so bit of a second class citizen ? no thanks.

Well its clear he wants to gain market share. Maybe the current Vampire hardware makers are getting a better deal ?
Other (open) projects we still need to see beat Apollo performance and compatibility....

You can pay for first class, like in a plane So But a free core in the 060 speed class is not bad, what other core can match that ??

[Chucky]

The people who are going to need/use Enforcer/Mungwall will know what features Apollo offers, belive me. 99% of the users dont even know know what it is, let alone use it.... And to be in your style I will repeat myself too, Apollo debugging tools are in the making.

issue is..people do not want to use different tools for Apollo and different for others.. they want to use the same tool.

Yeah those people should be banned like the people intentionally derailing every Vampire thread.... This thread isnt about what you like or dont like, its about the offer Gunnar has made for the HW designers. I dont see the reason you are posting here at all. Why should any1 care what you are interested in or not ? If you said, "I am making a new Amiga Turbocard but i dont want to use Apollo core", that I would understand.

Banning is the wrong way.  throwing out people is "managment by fear" and is totally worthless.  it is the worst way of dealing with people with a different opinion.

Wrong, anyone with any knowledge would recommend a 020 or 030 card with some ram for a whdload machine....

well yes.  but you get a nice package with the vampire.. you get memory, you get RTG (and supposly AGA later) instead of trying to get that separate for those old machines.   that's why. and is also the biggest reason why most get vampire..  you smack in one card and get it all.. (even if many never even use the RTG!

Performace wise, 080 is faster than any 060, integer AND floating point.... So obviously you are spreading misinformation here....

no debuggingtools.  and a halfworking FPU.   == crippled for me as a demoscener.

Maybe you should set the example and stop. WE all got the point, you dont want a Vampire.

And I want the vampirepeople using the word "Compatible" more carefully..
AND listen to people with other opinions. and NOT block people.. it is the wrong way..  as people say: I want MMU that works as it is on the old machines.  and there are a lot of them:  TAKE THE HINT!  we do not care if that solution is 100000 times better..

same with the FPU!   "not needed" (or even "not wanted")  until someone makes a fpu-emulator.. then suddenly it is needed..
listen to critics: take input..  and do not take it personal. and then suddenly they will get a awesome products that have stuff for everyone.

[kolla]

Wrong, anyone with any knowledge would recommend a 020 or 030 card with some ram for a whdload machine...

Noted, let's remember this one

Performace wise, 080 is faster than any 060, integer AND floating point.... So obviously you are spreading misinformation here....

Not the core that is available, and we have been told over and over again that it's what's available *NOW* that matters.

Vampire has kickstarted many Amiga sw projects, not only usable on Apollo core

Such as?
(Please answer FEMU!)

Maybe you should set the example and stop. WE all got the point, you dont want a Vampire.

He has one, I have two, we are your "users who don't give a rat's ass about WHDLoad (or Quake for that matter)"

[mikej]

You can pay for first class, like in a plane So But a free core in the 060 speed class is not bad, what other core can match that ??

You'll see..