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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Topic started by: SysAdmin on April 17, 2012, 05:14:24 AM

Title: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: SysAdmin on April 17, 2012, 05:14:24 AM
Please note the CEO of CommodoreUSA sent us the answers to the interview @ 11:51 PM EST. The amount of text was too large to post as a news item so I had to get help posting this. Link to full interview listed below.

http://www.discreetfx.com/CEOCommodoreUSAInterview.pdf
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: partycentralpartygirl on April 17, 2012, 05:46:52 AM
Thank you for posting this.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 17, 2012, 05:47:30 AM
Hey, Transition, mind posting this in a format conducive to copy/paste? It'd make further discussion a million times easier.

Anyway, my question was not answered, so I'll just re-post it in case Barry is lurking about: If a single Amiga fan (i.e. Trevor) can, with his own money, fund the design and production of a whole custom PowerPC board and distribute systems based around it, why can't CUSA accomplish more than selling equally expensive computers made out of commodity PC parts?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: mihcael on April 17, 2012, 07:05:15 AM
Very long, so i only glanced over a few questions. Seemed to be pretty well written and thought out responses. Doesn't change anything for me though.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 17, 2012, 07:09:03 AM
Quote from: Transition;688947
Please note the CEO of CommodoreUSA sent us the answers to the interview @ 11:51 PM EST. The amount of text was too large to post as a news item so I had to get help posting this. Link to full interview listed below.

http://www.discreetfx.com/CEOCommodoreUSAInterview.pdf

Don’t ever assume anything. (Barry)

Its evangelistic, love affair (yet calling critics on virge of psychotic) and no, no, no we`ll do it as we plan thing.
At least NO answers are short and straight. And like every good fairy tale, ends with much love.
Story about Commodore always having its own software is the best.

Only surprise is why discreetfx would be hosting such non-sense

Or the best quote to use back is

Quote
I see you are under certain delusions and will leave it at that.
and
Quote
The 30 million dollar budget was an invention of the advertising
agency we are no longer affiliated with.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: spirantho on April 17, 2012, 07:14:27 AM
Quote from: mihcael;688961
Very long, so i only glanced over a few questions. Seemed to be pretty well written and thought out responses. Doesn't change anything for me though.


It starts off talking about how he bought more 64s than anyone else, and then quickly descends into marketing speak about how great it is that Commodore and Amiga brands are reunited.
I just read 32 pages of marketing and don't know anything I didn't already.

Nothing to see here, move along please....

p.s. have the servers gone down yet?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 17, 2012, 07:39:19 AM
A waste of time, as expected.  Just more horn tooting, veiled insulting comments about the community, and marketing mumbo jumbo.

Credit where credit is due, at least their word was kept and some questions were answered.  Shame the PDF format makes any discussion of individual topics quite difficult, but running it through an online PDF to Text converter yields:

http://pastebin.com/kt9Z6chh

Any formatting errors are due to the PDF to Text converter, so don't blame me - it is a verbatim batch process.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: J-Golden on April 17, 2012, 07:54:30 AM
Read through most of it and found it to be quite enlightening.  I don't think I'd be getting one any time soon, but I now at least understand where CommodoreUSA is coming from, their mind set and what they are trying to achieve.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 09:21:49 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;688955
Hey, Transition, mind posting this in a format conducive to copy/paste? It'd make further discussion a million times easier.


What do you mean? I had no problems doing copy/paste, but if *you* have it, I think it may be *a good thing* for the upcoming discussion! :p :lol:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Manu on April 17, 2012, 09:40:52 AM
It was a good read, I have nothing against them/him. I still think a C64X would be cool on my desk, but I'm not that rich so I could buy another computer just for the coolness factor. :(
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Lurch on April 17, 2012, 09:50:55 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;688955
Hey, Transition, mind posting this in a format conducive to copy/paste? It'd make further discussion a million times easier.


Puzzled by this, can easily copy and paste from a PDF.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 17, 2012, 09:55:19 AM
Not all PDF readers copy and paste well.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 17, 2012, 10:06:28 AM
+1

In my views he has clearly stated that he has no interest in the community, has not invested in any camp and will not invest because it is "wasting money". So we now know about their attitudes. Nothing that would make change my mind. Aros is already getting combined with Linux and that is much more amiga and much cheaper than any of their solutions...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 10:23:56 AM
Thank you for making this effort, Barry! :)

A long, very enlightening post with lots of info. I believe *all* my questions were answered, and probably all the rest as well (perhaps similar questions may have been grouped together and slightly rephrased).

Anyway, I now know a lot more about you, how you are thinking, your ambitions, etc. This should clear out some misconceptions (and some others won't, since there are a handful of people with an agenda of *inventing* misconceptions and lies surrounding this issue, for some reason). As you said, you hare never taken anything away from anyone, people not interested aren't affected. But still they hate. Strange, perhaps, but we have seen it a lot of times during the last 1.5 decade. We call them "BAF's" (meaning Blind Amiga Followers); people who have an overly emotional relationship to the Amiga(TM) trade mark, way beyond what's healthy, even of a religious proportion some times, where things like rational thinking and common sanity left the building shortly after Commodore (the original one ;)) went bust.

Quote
We hold the AMIGA line with the utmost respect and dignity ... the model’s looks and the famous Commodore and Amiga brands give us some slight advantage in the marketplace ... We are re-releasing computers bearing the famous Commodore and AMIGA brands that many people cut-their-teeth with and loved. Whether you find it interesting is really up to you ... The Commodore and AMIGA brands obviously have the most appeal to those that grew up with those computers, and want something a little different, but not so different so as to be a nuisance.


It will be interesting to see whether you succeed in this. I fear however, that the "brand values" of the Amiga brand is

1) Completely forgotten by most people by now (there hasn't been any viable mainstream products for more than 1.5 decades)
2) More in line with this Dilbert strip for most of the the remaining:

(http://weblog.cemper.com/files/u2/dilbert-fraud-marketing.gif)

That strip pretty much sums up everything Amiga(TM) stands for today, after the past 1.5 decade of mismanagement. Spot on (you got to love Dilbert)! :lol:

I wish you the best of luck in your Amiga(tm) endeavors, but mind you that many of those people responsible for putting the Amiga(tm) in its current position described by Dilbert above, are at large still here and still somewhat operational. So just be aware that the brand your products are being built upon, may risk being negatively influenced by these other people's moronic decisions, and their BAF's praising them on their Internet crusades. What I'm trying to say is that you seem to be about to make *real* products for *real* markets, using a brand name whose values and development/management you cannot control entirely yourself, and some of the people that *can* aren't exactly known for making rational decisions. You have been warned! ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 17, 2012, 10:30:41 AM
Quote from: J-Golden;688969
Read through most of it and found it to be quite enlightening.  I don't think I'd be getting one any time soon, but I now at least understand where CommodoreUSA is coming from, their mind set and what they are trying to achieve.


Most of what was already known to the public. Beside known mindset and strategy that is just clearer now, insulting thing to me is "observation that Amiga is neither software or hardware, but (barry`s) project and vision" and thus that "CUSA is taking Amiga forward". Amiga is Classic machines and machines that can run AmigaOS natively, just like for example its such case with Mac. Target CPU and arhitecture can change (like x86 with AROS, or PPC with MOS/OS4) but that is the feeling and spirit. Even if its obsolete in modern terms, there would be a real project and real vision to bring it further, instead of just dismissing it.

OK, the right of CUSA is to have such nonsense as CommodoreOS as OS for Amigas, labels "All Commodore and Amigas are Windows compatibile" and other things that confuse past and their present en devour, but maybe it is the only way for mainstream profit and licence pay-off.

In that task, they should be less high profit to remain on x86 market, more presenting themselves as CUSA and not CBM, and much more professional, not the 11:59 bulk PR company, as once again demonstrated.

Q&A session has revealed no new plan, no new strategy or product as they announced just more ... not 30 mill $ advertising.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Lurch on April 17, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Tried reading it, kind of over it. Have gone back to enjoying my Amiga as a hobby, gave up a long time ago that I'd yet again in my life time see an Amiga at the local store.

Have tried a AmigaNG product but under the hood something kept nagging me :-(

Anyway I have my Amiga 500 and my WinUAE box (and some competition pro's and hopefully soon some reflex joysticks) to keep me happy.

@Duce change PDF reader? :-)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 17, 2012, 10:42:51 AM
I have shortly read the paragraphs regarding the existing community and it is clear that they have not invested anything and will not ("waste of money"). Aros would be the only interesting for them (X86) but they are not allowed to do (AmigaInc/Hyperion) and because of that they will never invest just one cent in it. All 68k projects are interesting but they will not invest, PPC is not interesting and they would never invest in a port of AOS or MorphOS and besides they want to control the OS. Therefore all closed source OSs are not interesting. So we know what we all can expect of them. Nothing. What I do not understand why they keep on trying to get on amigasites in the news if they are not interested in the community.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 11:37:45 AM
Quote from: OlafS3;688988
I have shortly read the paragraphs regarding the existing community and it is clear that they have not invested anything and will not ("waste of money"). Aros would be the only interesting for them (X86) but they are not allowed to do (AmigaInc/Hyperion) and because of that they will never invest just one cent in it. All 68k projects are interesting but they will not invest, PPC is not interesting and they would never invest in a port of AOS or MorphOS and besides they want to control the OS. Therefore all closed source OSs are not interesting. So we know what we all can expect of them. Nothing.


And all of it makes perfect sense! :)

Quote
What I do not understand why they keep on trying to get on amigasites in the news if they are not interested in the community.


Are they really? Or is it that *other* people (the handful but very active and vocal "CUSA Haters") are constantly opening these kind of threads? I think it is!

Besides, I actually think that some people here might be interested in what they have to offer. It's a fact that to some people here, the Amiga(tm) trade mark is far more important than merits/spec/qualities/etc of the product it's trying to sell, the biggest selling point of them all! Which is crazy... :crazy:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: swoslover on April 17, 2012, 11:38:36 AM
Quote from: OlafS3;688988
I have shortly read the paragraphs regarding the existing community and it is clear that they have not invested anything and will not ("waste of money"). Aros would be the only interesting for them (X86) but they are not allowed to do (AmigaInc/Hyperion) and because of that they will never invest just one cent in it. All 68k projects are interesting but they will not invest, PPC is not interesting and they would never invest in a port of AOS or MorphOS and besides they want to control the OS. Therefore all closed source OSs are not interesting. So we know what we all can expect of them. Nothing. What I do not understand why they keep on trying to get on amigasites in the news if they are not interested in the community.


I don't know why you would expect a business to invest in something when they can't expect to get anything in return for it.

You expect him to be altruistic in his attitude towars the community?  Get real he wants to make money.  

These OS's should be looking to fund themselves rather than begging for handouts.

One thing I do agree with him saying "there are better causes out there".
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: spirantho on April 17, 2012, 11:41:57 AM
My overriding impression on what he's saying is this:

1) C64s and Amigas rocked in the 1980s.
2) We want the name to once again be seen to represent creativity and power.

However, what I never saw in any of that was:

"We still like to use Amigas".

Leo was mentioned as having a couple of Classics for gaming, but that doesn't constitute anything to do with why some of love our Amigas, which is: the OS, be it AOS 3, AOS 4, MOS or AROS.

In other words, all they're interested in is the name. Whether that's to genuinely make the Amiga famous or to line Barry's pockets is down to the eye of the beholder, I suspect.

I think that's the fundamental difference between Amiga users and C=USA users - Amiga users have chosen Amiga-like OSes because they don't want to use Linux or Windows. C=USA users can't see the difference between Linux/Windows and AmigaOS except that Linux/Windows has more features and more software and therefore is "better". And that is why I - as an Amiga user - will never be interested in anything C=USA has to offer as our goals are just too different. Amiga is many things, but it was never just about the name until C=USA came along.

Edit:
Quote from: TakeMeHomeGrandma

Besides, I actually think that some people here might be interested in what they have to offer. It's a fact that to some people here, the Amiga(tm) trade mark is far more important than merits/spec/qualities/etc of the product it's trying to sell, the biggest selling point of them all! Which is crazy...


And that - unfortunately - is basically hitting the nail on the head.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 17, 2012, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: spirantho;688964
It starts off talking about how he bought more 64s than anyone else, and then quickly descends into marketing speak about how great it is that Commodore and Amiga brands are reunited.
I just read 32 pages of marketing and don't know anything I didn't already.

Nothing to see here, move along please....

p.s. have the servers gone down yet?

dilbert got it right then....
(http://weblog.cemper.com/files/u2/dilbert-fraud-marketing.gif)

barry thinks brand loyalty is the going to happen, so he can cash in easy money with stickers and x86 machines... as dilbert said.... hahahaha, good one.
(http://i.imgur.com/2rMgh.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 17, 2012, 11:50:24 AM
I am not your opinion. By donating money f.e. for bounties they would have shown their good will and the interest in the community. By not doing so they show that the community is not interesting for them (except that they want find "crazies" that buy their products just because of brand names)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 17, 2012, 11:52:58 AM
"One thing I do agree with him saying "there are better causes out there"."

ok, but why call it "Amiga" then? And when you talk about it, I have a used notebook at home with Kubuntu for 110 EUR, why spending so much money for his overprized hardware?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 12:11:00 PM
Quote from: spirantho;688993
However, what I never saw in any of that was:

"We still like to use Amigas".


What he *did* say, was more in the lines of "We would like to use real, useful for real in 2012 computers, not museum hardware running an OS that completely lacks the following which we are considering as basic features"

...which would be:

"1. The ability to utilze the latest hardware
2. An advanced graphical API
3. SMP
4. An advanced software stack
5. Mature software development options"


He also said: "We have gone to the trouble of creating our own custom branded
Commodore operating system based on GNU/Linux, which does
everything an Amiga-like OS can
[except screen dragging perhaps:lol:] and more,
without any of the various
[like lack of SMP, MP, modern CPU, RAM limit, etc?]
hindrances people seem to argue about ad infinitum."


And also:

"Sure, the AMIGA mini does not resemble a classic AMIGA but I felt it
was something that Commodore would have produced had it continued
to this day. Some of our new Amiga models will bear a closer
resemblance to the classics but are not intended as replicas. We intend
to do what we feel Commodore would have done if it had continued to
this day."


This last paragraph sums up their ambitions pretty good, I think. And why not? There is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is taking away your classic A1200, or your OS4 box. And we can only speculate how the Amiga would have evolved, had Commodore been alive all this time. I think Barry might be quite right actually. Apple has made at least one similar jump before, and today's Windows are not in any way similar to Windows 3.11 either...

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But nevertheless -- It's teh reeel!!11!!1!

Commodore Amiga (TM)

:D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 17, 2012, 12:29:24 PM
Quote
This last paragraph sums up their ambitions pretty good, I think. And why not? There is nothing wrong with that. Nobody is taking away your classic A1200, or your OS4 box. And we can only speculate how the Amiga would have evolved, had Commodore been alive all this time. I think Barry might be quite right actually. Apple has made at least one similar jump before, and today's Windows are not in any way similar to Windows 3.11 either...

We can all speculate what would be if CBM survived, but same can do Barry and this does not make his choices "right". Point is he is merely an OEM rebrander (or not OEM, a name rebrander) and his choice of "advanced OS" is nothing he has developed.

In other terms he is not selling anything new but the "look" (C64x) and now, not even that, but just the name for huge price difference which makes CUSA irrelevant offer in x86 world (=overpriced even more then Apple that at least offers designed hardware and their own OS). Windows today is much built on previous ones which is clearly visible in many stupid limitations like A-Z drives and 3 letter filetype recognition on extension (which is a DOS feature) even it is rewritten NT kernel and much improved. Way forward is always built on older experience, elements and knowledge.

No one is taking away Classics and OS4 machines EXCEPT CUSA is pretending there is no Amiga history after 1993, and that there is no AmigaOS being developed in their promo. If they are not to develop something that might reach needed minimum (as now is closer to it then ever) to be viewed as usable OS, at least they shouldn`t lie about it - missrepresenting CBM history as their own.

Also they are trying to stick Amiga name exclusively to themselves, negating and in those terms competing to current AROS, Natami, OS4 and  MorphOS

They should have CommodoreUSA Amiga 2012, but using same names as previous models is an insult to Classics, and even their current use.

In other words, generally its just retro exploit, and unless supporting AmigaOS like development it shouldn`t be viewed as development of Amiga. It`s just same as name licenced for dildos, drinks or any other non related product (like it was case with iCoin licence).

Problem is that it tries to cash Amiga survival on no innovation and no real advancement, no matter how much Barry tries to indicate his choices were "advanced and innovative"

Good news is that licence seems to have a timely manner until 2019, so we shall witness either "rise or fall" of "Commodore" again.

P.S.
Nothing against Linux: Linux could be used on much less "advanced hardware" competing for low price and quite usable computer. And I would be glad if they really helped development of MINT and AROS (as promised).

It exploits Linux, Amiga name and has many wrong small steps. There is no real need to have CUSA advertised at any Amiga website, unless paid promo and labeled so. Since they are business, we shouldn`t be "charity" either.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: spirantho on April 17, 2012, 12:35:57 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;689000
What he *did* say, was more in the lines of "We would like to use real, useful for real in 2012 computers, not museum hardware running an OS that completely lacks the following which we are considering as basic features"

...which would be:

"1. The ability to utilze the latest hardware
2. An advanced graphical API
3. SMP
4. An advanced software stack
5. Mature software development options"



All of which is great for a mainstream OS, but for a hobby OS there's one really important question to answer:

Do I enjoy using it?

If I don't enjoy using an OS then it doesn't matter how many bells and whistles it has it will never be my hobby, and that's what Amigas are to me.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 17, 2012, 12:39:53 PM
they want to compete on the mass market with their "Commodore Amigas" and in this case it is relevant. But it has really nothing to do with the past and the existing community. Amiga was a innovative combination of OS and hardware that was clearly differentiating from the other platforms. That is not the case with their products, even if they lower their prices.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: tone007 on April 17, 2012, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;689000
What he *did* say, was more in the lines of "We would like to use real, useful for real in 2012 computers


I like using real, useful, modern computers as well, and I also like purchasing them from companies who can support the product they sell and also provide competitive pricing.  If anything, CUSA should be selling their hackjob machines for less than "real" vendors are selling theirs for. What, no profit there? Now you're getting it. Move on to luxury plumbing fixtures.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: _ThEcRoW on April 17, 2012, 12:50:08 PM
2012 and the same people who stated they are interesting in cusa products or threads, keep posting on them.
It's the same explanations again again and again. Could some of the mods lock the thread please?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: danwood on April 17, 2012, 01:01:05 PM
"This was not a paid advertising program; You can’t buy this
exposure from Disney, it as to be offered; it’s not for sale.
Disney, at their sole expense, printed millions of full color dvd
insert panels, which were included on the front of every TRON
dvd worldwide!"

Hmmn it wasn't in mine...  (UK)

http://i.imgur.com/XZaaz.jpg
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: CritAnime on April 17, 2012, 01:27:13 PM
Nor mine Danwood....

But that's by the bye.

having read the thing, yes i read it not just skimmed it, it seems to me that the majority of things have been issues already covered multitudes of times on various forums. Just not filled with vitriol we normally would see from Barry. The things that are new and he clears up seem to amount to the usual back tracking and spin we have seen. Such as the $30million ad budget, something that I can't understand why they ran with it in the first place nor amended before now as it's been mentioned even on their own forums without anyone correcting it if it was complete crap. And I am still skeptical that a company like Disney would allow them to advertise for free.

The way I look at this is that he has come with a carefully crafted, well thought out bit of marketing. While he has answered the questions I can't help but feel this was all just an exercise in marketing for him and something that he can refer to if anyone else ever asks him the same things.

My opinion hasn't changed. I doubt it ever will. But I hope that this will keep them off our backs now.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 17, 2012, 01:57:33 PM
@Barry Altman (just so you know where I got this idea from)


My question from the interview:

Quote
Given the expressed desire to progress from being a licensee to an owner of both Commodore and Amiga IP, is there any progress on either of those fronts?


Barry's answer:

Quote
I can't recall ever(y) publically making that statement



True. This was stated by @redrumloa after his initial visit with Barry. It was quite clear, but I suppose you could say "not public"?

Quote
While Commodore USA is currently a licensee for the Commodore and Amiga name, the intention is to own these companies outright one day and to be a publicly traded company on a major exchange.


last paragraph (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=612887&postcount=1)

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 03:02:47 PM
Quote from: spirantho;689006
Quote
"1. The ability to utilze the latest hardware
2. An advanced graphical API
3. SMP
4. An advanced software stack
5. Mature software development options"
All of which is great for a mainstream OS, but for a hobby OS there's one really important question to answer:

Do I enjoy using it?


The above 5 points is what many OS4 users would die to have, but it won't happen going the current route. Frankly, it will be very difficult (read: impossible) to sell any kind of general desktop computer to *anyone* (outside this little community made of a few hundreds more or less fanatics) without those features, meaning *no business*. Anyone looking to sell a *perfectly usable* (for real, to "real" people!) desktop OS of year 2012 level must go a different route, and by going this route (the custom Linux OS), at least it will be something different than Windows and MacOS, and who knows, maybe it feels good enough and fun to use? Not like the old OS3 based OS's, something new, like Mac OSX compared to MacOS 9? Windows 2k compared to Win3.11? Completely different, not at all the same thing, but still something you could adapt to and embrace given some time?

Anyway, again - Nobody is taking your Museum Amiga's away from you, nor your OS4 boxes, so take it easy. If the new Commodore Amiga's aren't for you, then don't get it, as simple as that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 03:12:22 PM
Quote from: tone007;689011
I like using real, useful, modern computers as well, and I also like purchasing them from companies who can support the product they sell and also provide competitive pricing.  If anything, CUSA should be selling their hackjob machines for less than "real" vendors are selling theirs for. What, no profit there? Now you're getting it. Move on to luxury plumbing fixtures.


You are free to buy whatever you want, from whoever you want.

If it isn't for you, then don't buy it. Simple, really?

As an example: The A1X1K/OS4 sure as hell isn't something for *me*, no matter the brand names or boing balls slapped on to it. At least the Commodore Amiga's are usable for real, it doesn't have ancient specifications, it has an OS and SW stack that makes the computer usable, and it sure as hell doesn't cost $3,000+. Neither of them are MorphOS though, it was more than a decade ago since I mentally abandoned the Amiga(tm) brand forever, so I see no need in looking at Amiga branded stuff of any kind. I look at specs, price, etc and make my decisions from that... :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 17, 2012, 03:23:26 PM
Yeah, in the end the Barron isn't the Anti-Christ, just another businessman trying to make a buck, he saw the Commodore and Amiga brands as a chance for that and he took it.  In the end who wouldn't?  He's not going to produce anything for the retro enthusiasts, there's no money in that, as is more than evident from the businesses that have tried.

He's just a guy who used to make cable ends and is spending his own money to try to build a business that will outlast him.  It comes with middle age, suddenly you know you aren't here much longer and you want to leave something that says "I was here."  I really do empathize with that, but in the end his products aren't for me.  I can see if I owned a computer shop, I would sign up for his programme, because it would make my computer shop different to the other computer shops around, but I sold my business years ago.

In the end I appreciate that he took the time to explain everything, and just because I'm not a potential customer it doesn't mean I don't wish him well.  After all these years, there is no second coming of the Amiga.  I will love my classic Amiga toys and emulators and continue with Apple products for my modern needs.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 03:28:15 PM
Quote from: persia;689047
Yeah, in the end the Barron isn't the Anti-Christ, just another businessman trying to make a buck, he saw the Commodore and Amiga brands as a chance for that and he took it.  In the end who wouldn't?  He's not going to produce anything for the retro enthusiasts, there's no money in that, as is more than evident from the businesses that have tried.

He's just a guy who used to make cable ends and is spending his own money to try to build a business that will outlast him.  It comes with middle age, suddenly you know you aren't here much longer and you want to leave something that says "I was here."  I really do empathize with that, but in the end his products aren't for me.  I can see if I owned a computer shop, I would sign up for his programme, because it would make my computer shop different to the other computer shops around, but I sold my business years ago.

In the end I appreciate that he took the time to explain everything, and just because I'm not a potential customer it doesn't mean I don't wish him well.  After all these years, there is no second coming of the Amiga.  I will love my classic Amiga toys and emulators and continue with Apple products for my modern needs.


+1
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 17, 2012, 03:28:39 PM
I just tire of the yammering on about these "new Commodore" and "new Amiga" machines on sites like A.org, and I for one hope I never see another thread about either of them now that "the air has been cleared".

We got guys busting their asses - the Natami guys, Mike and crew with the FPGA Arcade board, stuff like the ACA boards, ZorRam.  MorphOS, AmigaOS, and AROS all offering very nice offerings of the Amiga experience.  We have more choice than we ever had in regards to "The Amiga Experience", really.  While we may fight and bicker between the camps, at the end of the day we do all truly know we are on the same boat.

Yet we waste our time dancing around with this C-USA nonsense - commodity hardware with a rebadged Linux distro, from a company that clearly has no intentions in offering anything to anyone wanting something that actually resembles an "Amiga".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  I understand the retro market.  I do understand why someone buys a C64x.  I do understand and fully realize there are people that will buy the "Amiga Mini" in some attempt to revisit their glory days back when they had a real Amiga.  I'm entirely comfortable with the concept of "a fool and his money are soon parted", and I'm entirely comfortable in the fact their products are not for me.  I hope C-USA makes a good PC that people are happy with if they purchase one.

Why the angle keeps getting spun that it's the "haters" that have kept them as a topic on true Amiga sites, that one baffles me.  I wonder why they are even mentioned at all - they are a commodity PC assembler/rebadger, and Gateway has more true Amiga street cred than C-USA.  It baffles me why every time C-USA so much as squeaks out a muted fart, the powers that be here are front paging it.  All I can come up with is they are trying to drive pageviews, and I see that as costing this site and others like it a lot of the old timer traffic.

People come here primarily to discuss the Amiga.  How you define "Amiga" is up to you.  It might be legacy, it might be FPGA, or AROS, MOS, AOS, or emulation.  Whatever floats your boat.  Isn't a damned thing Amiga about anything that will ever come out of Commodore USA other than engraving on a Chinese case filled with x86 components, running Linux with a custom skin.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 17, 2012, 04:52:42 PM
Did the Amiga.org servers melt yet?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: crawff on April 17, 2012, 04:58:44 PM
Are you trying keep this thread on the front page..... :-)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: jorkany on April 17, 2012, 05:03:18 PM
Quote from: Duce;689050
People come here primarily to discuss the Amiga.  How you define "Amiga" is up to you.  It might be legacy, it might be FPGA, or AROS, MOS, AOS, or emulation.  Whatever floats your boat.  Isn't a damned thing Amiga about anything that will ever come out of Commodore USA other than engraving on a Chinese case filled with x86 components, running Linux with a custom skin.


The Lovecraftian H'Miga!


(props to whoever posted that on mb)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Optimus on April 17, 2012, 05:07:42 PM
I don't blame them for licensing the names either. Or for trying to make a profit. I very much don't like the "illusions" they try to make about the company size, the multitude of false promises, their sham of a forum, and the arrogance. This interview was the most "down to earth" Barry has ever been.
 
It remains to be seen how many people are willing to pay "double" (as Barry claims) for his Amiga branded PCs.
 
Make no mistake, CUSA and their surrogates (whatever their motivation) post here because former Amiga owners are their target market. Unlike the C64x, the only nostalgic factor is the name.
 
When we question their tatics and the products they offer, we are the crazy trollers.
 
The fact is the Amiga Mini only exists as a poorly photoshoped image. They are the ones that have the audacity to try to sell something that doesn't exist and won't for at least another month for double (or more) what it costs them, and come pitch it here for free even though it has no tangible connection to Amiga other than the name.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 17, 2012, 05:12:58 PM
No intent on contributing to linux, no intent in aros = no intent to buy your ****e.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheBilgeRat on April 17, 2012, 05:32:09 PM
read the answers, didn't see pie vs. cake.

reagequit.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 05:35:38 PM
I am converting it to rtf format and I came across this.

On UAE
Do you plan some sort of a help for UAE project in order to add
support for PowerPC to this application?

I am told very little would be gained from that as there is very little
PPC software that is not already available to us non-emulated.

Not sure if this is my question cut to shreds but my point was a PPC core emulation + WIN UAE = OS4 running on x86 PCs like the worthless crap they sell ;)

edit:
my question is here....
Why are you not doing the only sensible option of funding
PowerPC 604 CPU emulation core for WinUAE option so Amiga
OS4 could be run on your generic cobbled together medium
power PC compatible?

I see you are under certain delusions and will leave it at that.

Leave it at what? You pathetic overpriced chinese bargain bucket PC with underwhelming 3d/audio performance with Amiga logo stuck on them?

The delusional one is you Mr BS extreme. As your tiny budget only allows fooling people into buying your overpriced badly built Windows PCs + Amiga sticker and AROS want nothing to do with you YOUR LAST HOPE OF EVER GAINING A TINY BIT OF RESPECT IS GONE WITH. WinUAE+PPC CORE + OS4 is the only way to add any legitimacy to your $1 website.

"While we have no immediate plans for an A500 replica, we will surely produce it one day."

And added to that gem of a reply all he wants to sell badly built ugly chinese wintel machines usingthe C=/Amiga name :roflmao:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 05:41:27 PM
Quote from: runequester;689070
No intent on contributing to linux, no intent in aros = no intent to buy your ****e.


And his opinions conveniently steer his products to PC Windows x86 motherboards with f**k all to do with even watered down "Amiga" machines running OS4. Apart from C64x case you could badge their products as ANY retro make. And to be honest Amiga Mini is more like an Atari Mega ST shrunk in the wash design-wise :roflmao:

(Mos and AROS are just Amiga like unofficial projects)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 17, 2012, 05:51:07 PM
It sounds like Barry does not know that Minimig has been available and selling for years.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 17, 2012, 06:29:12 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;689078
It sounds like Barry does not know that Minimig has been available and selling for years.

Just for opposite example Natami finalization, Minimig AGA development with standard ARM add on and large memory with legal and preinstalled OS 3.9 + bunch of games could be cheap and nice Amiga comeback. Or FPGA 030 softcore for some FPGA expanded x86 board.

There are plenty ways to explore, but very little if you don`t wish to invest or develop. And that is the end of "Amiga comeback". Linux with Amiga Forever. As much Amiga as any device running UAE nicely and with a bit experienced user or Amiga Forever for it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 06:30:04 PM
For those people who are not excited by a linux pc, will you
genuinely have something of interest for them?

Yes, it’s called Windows, you may have heard of it. We are considering
providing that as an option beside Commodore OS. Ultimately, we are
OS agnostic, and don’t care if you go and install AROS or MacOSX on
our machines (at your own peril).

Says it all really, like a smelly old politician he purposefully misinterprets the question which clearly is asking for non x86 generic b0ll0x + Amiga sticker. More BS from Mr BS Altman. :laugh1:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 17, 2012, 06:34:48 PM
Quote from: Digiman;689072
I am converting it to rtf format and I came across this.

On UAE
Do you plan some sort of a help for UAE project in order to add
support for PowerPC to this application?

I am told very little would be gained from that as there is very little
PPC software that is not already available to us non-emulated.

Not sure if this is my question cut to shreds but my point was a PPC core emulation + WIN UAE = OS4 running on x86 PCs like the worthless crap they sell ;)

edit:
my question is here....
Why are you not doing the only sensible option of funding
PowerPC 604 CPU emulation core for WinUAE option so Amiga
OS4 could be run on your generic cobbled together medium
power PC compatible?

I see you are under certain delusions and will leave it at that.

Leave it at what? You pathetic overpriced chinese bargain bucket PC with underwhelming 3d/audio performance with Amiga logo stuck on them?

The delusional one is you Mr BS extreme. As your tiny budget only allows fooling people into buying your overpriced badly built Windows PCs + Amiga sticker and AROS want nothing to do with you YOUR LAST HOPE OF EVER GAINING A TINY BIT OF RESPECT IS GONE WITH. WinUAE+PPC CORE + OS4 is the only way to add any legitimacy to your $1 website.

"While we have no immediate plans for an A500 replica, we will surely produce it one day."

And added to that gem of a reply all he wants to sell badly built ugly chinese wintel machines usingthe C=/Amiga name :roflmao:


so true so true.....
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 06:37:13 PM
Is Amiga x86 going to have fully licensed Amiga ROM in order
to legally emulate previous systems?

Amiga ROMs for game emulation are part of our license.

So will we get some Roms burnt on a DVD-R with hand written label by marker pen? Do deluxe models get Workbench adfs too? :lol:

btw Amiga Inc own Kickstart? Thought Gateway gave them permission not sale of ownership?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 06:49:37 PM
Why are you putting Amiga logo on HTPC cases, where are the
Amiga look-a-like cases?

We want to go beyond pure retro for a look that can also appeal to
more to a mainstream audience. We don’t want to put all our eggs in
the replica basket. Think of the new Mustangs, Mini’s and Beetles, for
an idea of what is in our mind regarding re-styling or re-imagining of
classic models. Our new models will pay similar homage, and to do so
they need to be pizza shaped like the classics or today’s HTPC units.
We will also likely sell towers by years end, but leveraging the classic
Amiga form factors seems the most appealing and distinctive option at
the moment.

Commodore NEVER made a slim pizza box case dumbass, and a handful of towers. Amiga = 1000,500,3000,1200 and nothing else design-wise is Amiga. This rubbish is like an Atari Mega ST shrunk in the wash  :flame:

Like I said this a$$wipe wants to sell off the shelf crap from china with some Amiga stickers, nobs rejoice your overpriced "Amiga" is hear. :banana:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Dr.Bongo on April 17, 2012, 06:51:55 PM
Having read the reply I have to admit I'm now feeling a little sad. I understand that Cusa is a company and needs a profit to survive but, I can't honestly see where the expect to get that from. The 64 case was a nice niche thing but is no good for anything but the basics and all of there other stuff smacks of the earlier attempt at C= branded mp3 players. There's better out there for less.
The thing that really got to me though was the answer to my question, asking if any of them still use/own the classic machines. Basically his reply was that one member of the team has a couple kicking round the office as ornaments. I find it so sad that the current owners of the best brand of all time (in my opinion) doesn't actually understand what it's all about. Nobody who loves C= is going to buy their x86 stuff and the way they are going about things I'm sure that they will not attract anybody new.
I don't have a magic answer to what Cusa should be doing but, I'm very sure that this is not it.

Jack Tramiel must be turning over in his grave (too soon?)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Nameless on April 17, 2012, 06:54:27 PM
I first want to give Barry credit for answering all (or most) of the questions. He did seem to put some thought into his answers.

The problem is, none of those answers really solve the problem of what his vision of what an Amiga is, vs what everyone here, and a large percentage of former users, think.

It can be summed up in this line he gave: 'I think of the Amiga as more a concept, rather than it must be this hardware or this software'.

I don't think that is the same, or similar, mindset to anyone who owned an Amiga in the past. I could use that same logic to say almost anything is an Amiga. My mac mini has a lot of nice features, it could be considered high performance and has a lot of entertainment value... is it an Amiga? I think my HP Touchpad is cool... should I just all of a sudden say it's an Amiga? You get the point.

Unless CUSA somehow gets around that licensing agreement, so they can either port AOS, or provide an OS with Amiga-like elements, I think they'll never get the support of former Amiga users. In my opinion they really should have never used the Amiga license without such an agreement in place first. They might as well just called their lineup Commodore PCs (which admittedly failed when Commodore Gaming tried it).

I wish I followed this earlier, as I would have added my own questions. But one key one which wasn't touched upon so much, but brought up briefly with FPGAs... why assume it has to be an expensive FPGA device? Why does CUSA think there is no market for such retro devices? They must be aware of Jeri Ellsworth's 'C-64 on a chip'. That is the way they should have went for their Amiga products (again, in my opinion).

As for Roms, I have heard various things. On the CUSA site they seem to indicate they will use the AROS rom. But I guess they could get around some legalities if they got a license from Cloanto instead. End users may still need to use WB 3.1 though to run certain programs, so not sure how they plan to get around that. Unless they just say to download AROS, download AROS roms, and... well, hope whatever they want to run, works.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 17, 2012, 06:55:02 PM
Quote from: Digiman;689092
Is Amiga x86 going to have fully licensed Amiga ROM in order
to legally emulate previous systems?

Amiga ROMs for game emulation are part of our license.

So will we get some Roms burnt on a DVD-R with hand written label by marker pen? Do deluxe models get Workbench adfs too? :lol:

btw Amiga Inc own Kickstart? Thought Gateway gave them permission not sale of ownership?


:roflmao:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 17, 2012, 07:00:02 PM
Quote
What is your opinion about the FPGA projects that are
recreating the old 8-bit and 16-bit machines on hardware FPGA
emulation?
As I said earlier, I like the Natami and Minimig projects and think they
are very interesting, and for that reason alone would like to bring
them under the Commodore umbrella some day.
Perhaps an FPGA PCIe card could be utilised as options on our
machines. There are certainly a lot out there, but they are too
expensive to provide as standard. Even then, one would argue that
emulation is preferable though.


So he has no idea what a standalone FPGA Minimig does except that he'd like to shut it down and fully control it under his umbrella.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 07:04:57 PM
"It must be also realised that the majority of Amiga owners were solely
games players, using their Amigas in a similar fashion to consoles, and
while they may have used the machines for some other purposes now
and then, do not have any particular allegiance to the operating
system or chips in the machine, but loved the brand just the same. "

WRONG!

1. As many home users bought Dpaint as people with PCs at home bought spreadsheet programs.

2. Even only games playing Amigans KNEW Shadow o.t. Beast was better than ST/SNES versions because of them custom chips.

:)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 17, 2012, 07:15:42 PM
If the majority of Amiga owners were game players, I sure wasn't one of them.
I used my systems 99% for productivity and creative purposes.

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but need to say what I forgot to say earlier.

Kudos to Barry for going through with it.

Cheers to Transition for getting the Q&A done and posted while jerk offs like me say nasty things about the whole deal being a farce.  At the end of the day Transition, people only chide you if they feel your site is being milked for PR purposes, or in some instances your integrity and the integrity of A.org is being tread on.  Nothing personal, buddy - in time I'm sure you might even see it as a backhanded form of respect, lol.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: billt on April 17, 2012, 07:19:55 PM
Quote
What do you (or any of your employees with computer
hardware/systems backgrounds) think of this computer/OS
architecture?
From what I can understand, it sounds wonderful, but would likely be
outdated before it ever came to fruition.


I assume that THIS in the question was a link to something interesting. What was THIS?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 17, 2012, 07:20:09 PM
@Nameless

OS4 and MOS are both the equivalent of MacOS 9.  They are as far as you can go with the original operating system.  The point where there is no patching able to make the operating system modern, the cost of rewriting AmigaOS to run on top of a Linux kernel, like Apple did with a BSD kernel, is too high and the payback is too small.  A decade or two in stagnation is too much to recover from.

C=USA is not in the retro business, except as it sells machines.  Yes the handful of us who still love and appreciate AmigaOS or the original C64 may not buy their products, but somebody who had a C64 as a child and hasn't seen or used one in many years might.  I've been thinking about getting the C64x, loading Windows 8 on it and using it as a conversation piece.  A bit of kitsch...  A souvenir of the early computer days that has some use.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: billt on April 17, 2012, 07:26:54 PM
Quote
Why should we ask any questions to a producer/assembler of a
regular PC computer when the only connection between this
system and Amiga is by UAE?
We are re-releasing computers bearing the famous Commodore and
AMIGA brands that many people cut-their-teeth with and loved.

But they are not re-releasing computers. They are re-using names. The computers have nothing else whatsoever to do with their name predecessors, so I just can't see this as re-releasing anything.

Quote
We don’t want to put all our eggs in the replica basket.

They did one replica, the C64. There's not ANY "Amiga" eggs in this basket at all. Mustangs, Minis and Beetles are at least inspired by their classic designs. Other than for the C64 casework, I don't see any related inspiration at all. I agree that they need to go with the times, and today things are different than back in Amiga Classic days. Giant towers are out, tiny Mini-ITX is in. But saying that their designs are inspired by the classics is a bit of a stretch. It's like when I was trying to figure out how the first new Dodge Chargers related to the classic Charger. It just didn't. The last year or two they've at least made it better, but I still don't see the lineage. The Challenger I'd call a success in being inspired by the classic lineage, but they kindof lost it with the Charger.

He said a number of times that there are no discussions with Hyperion or etc. I'd like to know if CommodoreUSA has made legitimate attempts to contact Hyperion or other named companies in the questions to initiate such discussions, or if they are so disinterested in such things that no contact has been attempted and CUSA do not intend to try.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 07:26:56 PM
What percentage of markup do you apply to your off the shelf
components, it seems dreadfully high?

Really? Same as Apple. They take their raw cost of materials and
DOUBLE it. That becomes their approx. selling price.  OK, I know we
are not Apple, but the principle remains the same.

No. Apple spend billions on themed consistent case design and a writing a bespoke OS, you bought some fugly cases.AIOs from China and slop a DVD-R of Linux with 1$ of inkjet printed case/leaflet :roflmao:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: itix on April 17, 2012, 07:30:43 PM
It is interesting reading but I am afraid Amiga brand is finished. MorphOS and AROS are way to go.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 07:31:31 PM
Quote from: persia;689112
@Nameless

OS4 and MOS are both the equivalent of MacOS 9.  They are as far as you can go with the original operating system.  The point where there is no patching able to make the operating system modern, the cost of rewriting AmigaOS to run on top of a Linux kernel, like Apple did with a BSD kernel, is too high and the payback is too small.  A decade or two in stagnation is too much to recover from.

C=USA is not in the retro business, except as it sells machines.  Yes the handful of us who still love and appreciate AmigaOS or the original C64 may not buy their products, but somebody who had a C64 as a child and hasn't seen or used one in many years might.  I've been thinking about getting the C64x, loading Windows 8 on it and using it as a conversation piece.  A bit of kitsch...  A souvenir of the early computer days that has some use.

Then they should stop selling substandard Wintel machine with C=/Amiga stickers for Apple RRPs and f**k off if they don't like the responses.

We only asked for bespoke replica cases suitable for Micro ATX or larger motherboards AT THE VERY LEAST. :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 17, 2012, 07:31:34 PM
at CommodoreUSA office....
(http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/dilbert_disaster_recovery_plan.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Nameless on April 17, 2012, 07:44:10 PM
@Persia

Yeah, I had that same issue brought up when I posted in CUSA's site too. When I say porting AOS, I mean updating it, as well.

It can be argued that it's not worth it. That it's too far behind to even bother with. Okay, but then why does CUSA say in the same breath that they'd like to offer AROS as a complimentary OS with their systems?

A port of AOS or Morphos does not have to remain stagnant. And neither would have to be the sole OS on the system either.

But even if we go with the idea that both are too far behind to be salvaged...

Then create a new OS, but add Amiga-like elements, graphics, certain levels of compatibility, etc. COS isn't it. By law, they can't make their OS anything like an Amiga OS.

Which is the key problem for them and why calling their systems an Amiga seems somewhat silly to me. If it's nothing like an Amiga besides an engraving, what's the point?

As for a C-64, the selling point is the retro design. I can understand (although disagree with the pricing), someone wanting one of those. Their Amigas look nothing like the original Amiga, has no similarity regarding software or OS, there is nothing unique about the hardware... so... again, there is nothing remotely Amiga-like about it.

Another thing I was not aware of was the reason for the advertising budget claim of 30 million dollars, or however much they stated. I am curious if Barry will answer a question that immediately comes to mind...

Why did CUSA not correct this mistake immediately? It's one thing to apologize and blame their advertising company, but they knowingly allowed the lie to persist. One could call it creative marketing... or as that Dibert comic amusingly illustrates, it could also be called fraud as marketing.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: itix on April 17, 2012, 07:44:25 PM
Quote from: Digiman;689116
Then they should stop selling substandard Wintel machine with C=/Amiga stickers for Apple RRPs and f**k off if they don't like the responses.


You dont have to buy Amiga products if you dont like it. Simple as that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 07:45:57 PM
Why don't you cooperate with Yoz Montana in the matter of
Amiga cases which are modern, original and have some retro
feeling?

Frankly, because we have much better and more realistic ideas. His
design looks great, but when he designed it he seemed to forget you
need room for actual hardware inside. Of course we provided him with
feedback, and he came back with another larger design, but we
weren’t so enamoured with it. It really is a balancing act between
looks and functionality.

Erm

1, you STOLE his Amiga 500 inspired design and removed his name from image.

2, Amiga Mini $30 case is smaller than all his designs.

More evasive BS from Mr BS :)

Rich Text Format version of answers here (http://www.retro-genius.co.cc/Amiga-Answers.rtf)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: motrucker on April 17, 2012, 07:47:14 PM
What a bunch of crap!  Why does this idiot get all this free exposure on the site anyway? It makes me sick.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on April 17, 2012, 07:51:07 PM
I really wanted to read that, honest, I did.  But after the "No contest - I win!" comment in the first paragraph, I gave up.  :(  It's nice to be enthusiastic and all, but geeze.  :-/
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 07:57:29 PM
Quote from: itix;689122
You dont have to buy Amiga products if you dont like it. Simple as that.


They are NOT "Amiga products".
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 17, 2012, 08:06:08 PM
Quote from: persia;689112
@Nameless

OS4 and MOS are both the equivalent of MacOS 9.  They are as far as you can go with the original operating system.


True! MorphOS 4.x is the way to go (after 3.x of course)! :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: itix on April 17, 2012, 08:08:03 PM
Quote from: Digiman;689131
They are NOT "Amiga products".


Of course they are not more Amiga than MorphOS, AROS, Pegasos, Hyperion's OS4, Natami, Minimig, AmigaOne... you name it... but even the original Commdore sold cheap PC clones under Commodore brand. I dont understand why some people go apecrap when someone is selling PC clones under Amiga brand. It is just a name for god sake.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: billt on April 17, 2012, 08:08:11 PM
Quote from: Digiman;689131
They are NOT "Amiga products".


The problem here is that, legally, they are. As far as visible or experiencable content, in our opinions, they are not. While we don't have to accept these "things" as what we believe "Amigas" to be, if we went to court and asked the judge to prevent CUSA from using the Amiga name in the way that they do, we would lose and CUSA would keep the right to do that, so long as they are not breaking some terms of all the contracts involved. (including those contracts not signed directly but CUSA but which Amiga Inc. is bound to restrict their sublicensors to)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 17, 2012, 08:19:07 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;689136
True! MorphOS 4.x is the way to go (after 3.x of course)! :D


Yes, and don`t forget the AmigaOS 5 (by Amiga Inc?) or maybe without them, right after 4.2 and 4.3 :-) Assume it will also have all those modern features and will not be PPC (only)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 17, 2012, 08:21:29 PM
Quote from: itix;689138
Of course they are not more Amiga than MorphOS, AROS, Pegasos, Hyperion's OS4, Natami, Minimig, AmigaOne... you name it... but even the original Commdore sold cheap PC clones under Commodore brand. I dont understand why some people go apecrap when someone is selling PC clones under Amiga brand. It is just a name for god sake.

They are no more Amiga then Android / iPhone running UAE or similar. Nothing is Amiga Classic but the Classic, but somehow doubt CUSA will make it to Amiga History pages, at last not by good

Before no one sold PC clones under Amiga Brand, but the iCoin shop was far more creative: why not offering them all
and even without Amiga Forever (not a bad product for itself, great emu box)?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: billt on April 17, 2012, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: vox;688963
The 30 million dollar budget was an invention of the advertising agency we are no longer affiliated with.


I wonder how that happened... (imagining things get all wavey as we transition to my imagination...)

Ad agency: Yes, this all looks great. Our standard fee for this service is 30 million $.

CUSA: Uh, OK.

time passes

Ad agency: We'd like to be paid now. Where's our 30 million $??

CUSA: What?! You think we have 30 mil to spend on advertizing? You're freakin nuts!

(wavey transition back to reality)

CUSA: Yea, those crazy ad agency people completely made up this figure.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 17, 2012, 08:28:16 PM
Quote from: billt;689139
The problem here is that, legally, they are. As far as visible or experiencable content, in our opinions, they are not. While we don't have to accept these "things" as what we believe "Amigas" to be, if we went to court and asked the judge to prevent CUSA from using the Amiga name in the way that they do, we would lose and CUSA would keep the right to do that, so long as they are not breaking some terms of all the contracts involved. (including those contracts not signed directly but CUSA but which Amiga Inc. is bound to restrict their sublicensors to)


True, they legally are, but judging by a lot comments on Amiga Mini announcements, people have many different reasons not to buy it, not only emotional and attached to Amiga brand like here. Like its way overpriced x86 system.So its likely that market and internet show that reason can prevail over legal logic :-)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 17, 2012, 08:51:09 PM
Nothing the Baron does really affects us.  Don't sweat it, enjoy your Amigas, MOS, AROS, OS4, UAE.  As long as you are having fun what does it matter if he makes a few bucks off the name?  

And understand he has to hype his products.  Nobody in advertising is allowed to tell anything like the truth.  He's selling desktop PCs.  Desktop PCs are the only part of the IT market where sales are stagnant.  If you don't toot your own horn no one else will.  He has a gimmick, a name out of the past.  A name with some goodwill associated with it.  He uses it to generate sales.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but to get into a stagnant market without a gimmick would be financial suicide.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: nyteschayde on April 17, 2012, 09:00:51 PM
Thanks Barry for the time and Q&A. You stated

                                 
Quote
Why did you use name AMIGA for a PC computer that neither its operational system, architecture nor a case even in the smallest way has any connection with Amiga?
          I think of the Amiga more as a concept, rather than it must be this hardware or that software. I believe the Amiga’s essence is encapsulated as a beautiful, high-performance, home computer for creativity and entertainment. The VIC line is represented as something more affordable and more compact.
   
The funny thing is he is an Amiga and Commodore fan with a realist approach to which hardware will be useful. The annoying thing for most Amiga fans is that it really offers very little difference from running UAE on your own home Windows PC. The reason this is annoying is that we so dearly want the Amiga brand name to stop being reinvented by companies who buy it and have no interest in existing Amiga operating systems that most Amiga fans still want to interact with.

This is a really strange state of things. We'd like someone with money to burn to fund further development of what we like to use on original Amiga hardware or derivatives that emulate or work with original Amiga software. Part of the dream and memories of the original Amiga for many of us, was the software more than the hardware. Jens of Individual Computers for example, and the Natami and Minimig  teams all want new hardware to accurately and quickly run the old  software. For most Amiga users, the desire to run modern OSes on their classic or neo-classic hardware is not a concern. We have modern PCs for that.

With CUSAs reinvention of the Amiga and Commodore, Barry is recreating the hardware and not the software. Therein lies the conundrum. Therein lies the source of anger, angst and misunderstanding. As far as business goes, he is taking care of himself while trying to be polite. Most of us are angry because, once again, someone is taking the Amiga name and promoting it without keeping the essence of most of us consider to be the spirit of the Amiga (i.e. the software).

As frustrating as it is, it's hard to fault Barry for his efforts and ideas. If I had the money I'd have gone a completely different route, but I don't and therefore can't.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 17, 2012, 09:13:00 PM
Quote from: persia;689151
Nothing the Baron does really affects us.  Don't sweat it, enjoy your Amigas, MOS, AROS, OS4, UAE.  As long as you are having fun what does it matter if he makes a few bucks off the name?  

And understand he has to hype his products.  Nobody in advertising is allowed to tell anything like the truth.  He's selling desktop PCs.  Desktop PCs are the only part of the IT market where sales are stagnant.  If you don't toot your own horn no one else will.  He has a gimmick, a name out of the past.  A name with some goodwill associated with it.  He uses it to generate sales.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but to get into a stagnant market without a gimmick would be financial suicide.
If Barry chose to get into a market he can't possibly compete in, design and price in such a way that he's not even trying to be competitive, botch every aspect of marketing his products, and shell out to Bill McEwen for a brand he has no idea how to use, that's his problem. I'm not obligated to approve of it, or even to nod and shrug and go "well, that's business for you."
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Dr.Bongo on April 17, 2012, 09:19:19 PM
Quote from: persia;689151
Nothing the Baron does really affects us.  Don't sweat it, enjoy your Amigas, MOS, AROS, OS4, UAE.  As long as you are having fun what does it matter if he makes a few bucks off the name?


No, sorry. If he even makes a few bucks it's another load-of-nothing company that's dragging out and killing off the Commodore/Amiga brand (Escom/Gateway etc.). It does matter to me.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Dr.Bongo on April 17, 2012, 09:20:56 PM
Quote from: nyteschayde;689153
   
The funny thing is he is an Amiga and Commodore fan with a realist approach to which hardware will be useful.


Again, sorry but that's not what came across to me at all!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Snoozy on April 17, 2012, 09:24:20 PM
Hmmm as a short summary of the 32 pages.

- Barry liked Commodore and Amiga in the past, but not the games

- He will make amiga or commodore shells (plastic cases) by which to house PC components

- There will be no (specifically developed) Amiga OS. There will be just winuae. There is not the finance or inclincation from CUSA to develop a new Amiga OS.

- There are very small number of staff employed by CUSA and demand for the product is unknown/potentially low.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: jorkany on April 17, 2012, 09:31:11 PM
Quote from: billt;689143
I wonder how that happened... (imagining things get all wavey as we transition to my imagination...)

Ad agency: Yes, this all looks great. Our standard fee for this service is 30 million $.

CUSA: Uh, OK.

time passes

Ad agency: We'd like to be paid now. Where's our 30 million $??

CUSA: What?! You think we have 30 mil to spend on advertizing? You're freakin nuts!

(wavey transition back to reality)

CUSA: Yea, those crazy ad agency people completely made up this figure.



I wondered about this myself. Ad agencies aren't typically in the business of shoveling over money for the client to spend, if anything it's the other way round. Oh well, the fun continues!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 09:51:03 PM
Quote from: itix;689138
Of course they are not more Amiga than MorphOS, AROS, Pegasos, Hyperion's OS4, Natami, Minimig, AmigaOne... you name it... but even the original Commdore sold cheap PC clones under Commodore brand. I dont understand why some people go apecrap when someone is selling PC clones under Amiga brand. It is just a name for god sake.


My point is they are no more Amiga than a Dell PC running Linux+UAE/Windws+WinUAE/AROS with the circular Dell badge removed and replaced with a boing ball sticker. Can they run RTG screened/AHI audio enabled system friendly code? No. At the very least they should get Amithlon legal and then update it for i7/Phenom motherboard chipsets.

In this respect imagine if Wintel failed in 1994 and it was Microsoft and Intel who went bust not Commodore and 18 years later a regular IBM Power7 based Commodore Amiga with Amiga OS 7.0 (the defacto standard) running Wing Commander via PC Task PPC was called the Intel Windows PC rising from the ashes with an Intel inside sticker. Same thing here, all emulated virtually via software, not even a similar CPU/motherboard architecture.

It may be a legaly Amiga branded chinese Wintel PC but it will NEVER be an Amiga, that's what Mr BS doesn't understand.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 17, 2012, 09:58:12 PM
Quote from: billt;689111
I assume that THIS in the question was a link to something interesting. What was THIS?



Hi Bill,

I found the link in the original thread asking for questions to be submitted:

at bottom of post (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=686625&postcount=18)

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 17, 2012, 10:01:36 PM
Quote from: jorkany;689164
I wondered about this myself. Ad agencies aren't typically in the business of shoveling over money for the client to spend, if anything it's the other way round. Oh well, the fun continues!



some more info about that here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=685487&postcount=107)

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 10:02:22 PM
Quote from: nyteschayde;689153

With CUSAs reinvention of the Amiga and Commodore, Barry is recreating the hardware and not the software. Therein lies the conundrum. Therein lies the source of anger, angst and misunderstanding. As far as business goes, he is taking care of himself while trying to be polite. Most of us are angry because, once again, someone is taking the Amiga name and promoting it without keeping the essence of most of us consider to be the spirit of the Amiga (i.e. the software).

As frustrating as it is, it's hard to fault Barry for his efforts and ideas. If I had the money I'd have gone a completely different route, but I don't and therefore can't.

You don't have $9000 spare for 300 Chinese HTPC cases with free logo etching.

He is not recreating any hardware, these are off the shelf Wintel components and a lightly [badly] skinned Linux DVD-R.

I have $9000 spare, a better skinned version of a more popular OS but I don't feel like.....

1. raping the memory of an awesome 80s computer
2. destroying 68k Amigas to house PC motherboards inside their cases*
3. selling WinUAE running Wintel box as an Amiga

*(which would be worth more than his rubbish HTPC cases)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: jorkany on April 17, 2012, 10:09:56 PM
Quote from: number6;689173
some more info about that here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=685487&postcount=107)

#6


Thanks! Although the first and second links are actually the same and make no mention of the "projected budget". No need to try to track it down - the money isn't there, and doesn't appear to have ever been there, whatever the reason or whose fault it may be.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: nyteschayde on April 17, 2012, 10:12:33 PM
Quote from: Dr.Bongo;689161
Again, sorry but that's not what came across to me at all!

Trust me, I don't like what he's doing either. But in his own way, he see's it as though he is honoring the Amiga and the C64. He didn't realize and doesn't care that he is hurting our vision of the Amiga and Commodore because truthfully it's not a profitable market. He is running a business not a fan shop.

Again, I hate the approach he is taking but it's his money.

Does it bother me that the name is being tainted? Yes.
Do I wish he'd support the Amiga OS? Yes!! Will he? No.
Can all my whining and complaining do anything other than make me look bad? Probably not.

The guy is in a business to make money. He doesn't really care what we want to happen. He has offered to make a machine for us if we make it profitable for him. There was never any real quote for the unit prices he kept talking about in his offers, but nonetheless money is his bottom line. From a business stand point, it makes perfect sense.

It just also happens to hurt the image of the Amiga OS and our feelings. It also just happens that we're the ones keeping the Amiga OS alive and kicking. What that means is we should simply find a way to persevere like we have thus far. When the Natami is available for widespread consumption we can blog, post and advertise to the best of our ability that machines like that preserve the spirit of the Amiga; it's OS.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 17, 2012, 10:16:44 PM
Quote from: jorkany;689177
Thanks! Although the first and second links are actually the same and make no mention of the "projected budget". No need to try to track it down - the money isn't there, and doesn't appear to have ever been there, whatever the reason or whose fault it may be.



Apparently the thread is locked, so I can't correct my errant link. Thanks for pointing that out.
Here is the link to the initial news story I had intended to post:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/15/idUS189820+15-Sep-2010+PRN20100915

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: nyteschayde on April 17, 2012, 10:17:31 PM
I know what you're saying and I agree. I said above I would never do what he is doing even if I had the money. I don't have 9K to burn on making a better Amiga (by that I mean a real one that actually runs the software).

Because of some of the points he made as to not being able to use the OS for day to day work, which for me means a fast standards compliant web browsers with modern programming languages and development support, I cannot justify even spending 9K on the best Amiga OS machine out there. The X1000 doesn't even do what I need to do on a day to day basis (but it does cost less than 9K).

The thing that sucks the most is that he really is replacing the memory of these great machines with his vision which is semi-modern hardware in a box with a name on it. That's it. Yes he has some skins on Unix and/or Windows but that's nothing really. It's a half-hearted attempt at pleasing people like us; which it never will.

Quote from: Digiman;689175
He is not recreating any hardware, these are off the shelf Wintel components and a lightly [badly] skinned Linux DVD-R.

I have $9000 spare, a better skinned version of a more popular OS but I don't feel like.....

1. raping the memory of an awesome 80s computer
2. destroying 68k Amigas to house PC motherboards inside their cases*
3. selling WinUAE running Wintel box as an Amiga

*(which would be worth more than his rubbish HTPC cases)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: billt on April 17, 2012, 10:19:43 PM
Quote from: Digiman;689171
It may be a legaly Amiga branded chinese Wintel PC but it will NEVER be an Amiga, that's what Mr BS doesn't understand.


And this comes down to what each of us thinks an "Amiga" is or should be. We in the Amiga community expect an "Amiga" to provide something of the experience we think of when using our classic Amigas.

To me, that's the OS interface, the way I interact with it. I don't care if it's 68000, PPC, x86, ARM, some weird "custom chips" or standard PCI equivalents, Zorro, ISA, PCI-Express, or whatever. Give me the OS, without some other OS involved, and I'll happily believe I'm using what I consider to be an "Amiga".

Some people think that some weird "custom chip" that isn't present in any other computer is an absolute requirement. I don't understand that today, but they are welcome to their opinion. These people would cry foul if I called my own computer design an "Amiga" because it would lack something "custom". And I'd say they were wrong to discredit my invention because it is designed to run AmigaOS4. (The only thing about my mental design that is NOT a bog standard PC is the PowerPC processer. Other than that I embrace mass market off-the-shelf hardware, and only that because I have no other choice)

Barry seems to think is "Amiga" concept is what he believes to be a high-end PC running modern OS features. Not everyone has agreed that the boards/CPUs he has chosen to sell are what they all believe to be "high end". Barry doesn't seem to think that the OS or user interaction needs to have any resemblance whatsoever to the user experience we remember and desire, and that's my biggest problem with his "Amiga". I'm happy to see that they all seem to have come to their senses regarding the $25000 luxury computer BS. I don't think any of us remember reading about that as a crazy video editing rig any more than he seems to remember saying some of the other BS things that went around.

He has a legal license to go around telling us that his "concept" is indeed an "Amiga". Sure, we can all grumble about it, but we can't really say he's wrong, no matter how much we hate the situation. If your philosophy disagrees with his concept, yes do not buy it. Maybe it won't sell enough to continue, and we'll see the situation change again in a couple years. Maybe enough outsiders will agree with his concept for his business to do well, and they'll all think we're a bunch of weirdos for holding on to 1987. (Because so many are ignorant that "legitimate" things lasted after that)

What happens if we're right and his business fails? Does the name go into legal limbo, with bitter people unwilling to release rights to newcomers, keeping it locked out of anyone's reach? Might we see something new and agreeable come up? We'll have to see.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: nyteschayde on April 17, 2012, 10:20:49 PM
Quote from: Digiman;689171
At the very least they should get Amithlon legal and then update it for i7/Phenom motherboard chipsets.

Nothing would make me happier than that. But again he doesn't even care about AmigaOS at all. Period. It's useless to him. Not to us, but it is to him. If he did that he would only be pleasing us, not the drones out there buying his hardware.

It would be a waste of money. If we could get the talented devs here working on a kernel5 for Amithlon or the likes, that would be awesome!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: nyteschayde on April 17, 2012, 10:26:39 PM
Very well put. That's exactly what I took from the Q/A as well. It's a shame really, but he has the money and the license. We'll have to wait and see and hopefully build something more noteworthy ourselves in the mean time. I honestly believe that the developers and minds here, despite the fact that many of us are bitter and petty in one way or another, are incredibly talented.

The MiniMig, the FPGA Arcade, the Natami and all the products from Individual Computers, OS4, MorphOS and even, dare I say it, Elbox go to show the talent that was born from the Amiga environment and OS. We rarely all get along and do have an over diversification of "camps" but when even a few of us put our minds together we accomplish a lot.

Barry can't take that away, even if he lowers the price on his cheap Dell with a boing ball and an embossed Amiga stamp.

Quote from: billt;689181
And this comes down to what each of us thinks an "Amiga" is or should be. We in the Amiga community expect an "Amiga" to provide something of the experience we think of when using our classic Amigas.

To me, that's the OS interface, the way I interact with it. I don't care if it's 68000, PPC, x86, ARM, some weird "custom chips" or standard PCI equivalents, Zorro, ISA, PCI-Express, or whatever. Give me the OS, without some other OS involved, and I'll happily believe I'm using what I consider to be an "Amiga".

Some people think that some weird "custom chip" that isn't present in any other computer is an absolute requirement. I don't understand that today, but they are welcome to their opinion. These people would cry foul if I called my own computer design an "Amiga" because it would lack something "custom". And I'd say they were wrong to discredit my invention because it is designed to run AmigaOS4. (The only thing about my mental design that is NOT a bog standard PC is the PowerPC processer. Other than that I embrace mass market off-the-shelf hardware, and only that because I have no other choice)

Barry seems to think is "Amiga" concept is what he believes to be a high-end PC running modern OS features. Not everyone has agreed that the boards/CPUs he has chosen to sell are what they all believe to be "high end". Barry doesn't seem to think that the OS or user interaction needs to have any resemblance whatsoever to the user experience we remember and desire, and that's my biggest problem with his "Amiga". I'm happy to see that they all seem to have come to their senses regarding the $25000 luxury computer BS. I don't think any of us remember reading about that as a crazy video editing rig any more than he seems to remember saying some of the other BS things that went around.

He has a legal license to go around telling us that his "concept" is indeed an "Amiga". Sure, we can all grumble about it, but we can't really say he's wrong, no matter how much we hate the situation. If your philosophy disagrees with his concept, yes do not buy it. Maybe it won't sell enough to continue, and we'll see the situation change again in a couple years. Maybe enough outsiders will agree with his concept for his business to do well, and they'll all think we're a bunch of weirdos for holding on to 1987. (Because so many are ignorant that "legitimate" things lasted after that)

What happens if we're right and his business fails? Does the name go into legal limbo, with bitter people unwilling to release rights to newcomers, keeping it locked out of anyone's reach? Might we see something new and agreeable come up? We'll have to see.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: AmigaNG on April 17, 2012, 10:29:56 PM
Firstly I agree with a few people that it was a surprise that did take the time to respond to nearly every question (still would of like to of known, cake or pie? ) and he was being slightly more honest about his company size and ablities for a change was good to see.

I liked the answer to my question on all his past mistakes, basically saying, other company's have done the same if not worst, so that makes it all ok for us to do the same.

Plus the Icontain answer was a interesting one, he see the Amiga brand being used on rental pc cheapen the brand and would'nt like to see that, well that kind of how most of the community think about their products.

I feel it's a shame that the Amiga brand could'nt of been attracthed to something more special, if I had to pick one company that deservers the Amiga and maybe even more the commodore name and go back to its roots, it would be the raspberry Pi, cheap, low cost computer made for kids to get back into programing and made for the masses at just £22.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: nyteschayde on April 17, 2012, 10:47:31 PM
Quote from: AmigaNG;689185
I feel it's a shame that the Amiga brand could'nt of been attracthed to something more special, if I had to pick one company that deservers the Amiga and maybe even more the commodore name and go back to its roots, it would be the raspberry Pi, cheap, low cost computer made for kids to get back into programing and made for the masses at just £22.

Not to derail the thread, but god I'll be happy when mine finally arrives. Perhaps we can outdo Barry with a distribution of Raspberry Pi / AROS / Amithlon machines put together in Shapeways 3D printed cases for $100. See how many of those get sold vs. a $2000 rebranded Dell. :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 17, 2012, 10:58:02 PM
Only more reason to support the little guys keeping the original lineage alive - again, how you define that is all up to you.  Enjoy what you have, don't spend a dime on what you feel taints the good name.  Either way, it's not going to change the business plan of Commodore USA.  They can live in the delusional world that they are the next boutique brand, but people based in the real world will simply not even consider what they offer, much less us old timers.

90% of what Barry said simply showed me they are so out of touch there's not much hope regardless of what nameplate they are slapping on stuff, though I laughed at the mentions of Apple and Alienware in the Q&A session.
All I read was 30 pages of disdain for the dedicated Amiga fanbase, so don't give them the satisfaction of giving them any press.  We are irrelevant to them, for God's sake make them irrelevant to us.  They have absolutely no intentions on doing anything to benefit any of us - they are simply plodding along selling stickered PC's as "next gen Amiga's".  Don't buy them if you don't agree with this ideal, and if you'd prefer to make your own "Amiga", there's 100 guys on here that can tell you how to do it for half the cost.  Isn't a single component in the Amiga Mini that cannot be bought off the shelf.

Support the guys like Jens, and the AmigaKit type vendors - the guys keeping the legacy/Classic Amiga market alive.  If I had the options of cool HW when I had my old A4000 that I would now if I'd kept it, I'd be in paradise.

The FPGA crews.  Mike @ FPGA Arcade, Natami crew, Minimig, etc.  These are the guys getting their hands dirty, doing the soldering grunt work trying to bring you an affordable blast from the past.  These guys are an inspiration in a world when all our legacy gear is getting near 20 years old.

Pick up a $50 Mac Mini and give MOS a whirl.  It doesn't cost you a damned thing to try it, it's very capable and even if you dislike MorphOS you still have a more than capable OSX or Linux machine for day to day tasks.

Take a OS4 machine for a whirl!  While the cost of entry is higher, it's a great OS.  Many guys like myself would be happy to set up a VNC session into one of our PPC OS4 machines if you want to tinker around with the OS for a bit.

AROS - Completely free and runs on hardware you likely already have.

UAE variants - extremely easy to setup, and works a treat.  Same goes for Amiga Forever, reasonably priced and a good solution if you are inclined towards emulation.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheDaddy on April 17, 2012, 11:07:47 PM
I agree with you.

And I wish I had the "support" you talk about:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=35607&forum=33

;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 17, 2012, 11:21:33 PM
commodore-amiga.org appears to be down.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 17, 2012, 11:32:34 PM
Quote from: Duce;689188
90% of what Barry said simply showed me they are so out of touch there's  not much hope regardless of what nameplate they are slapping on stuff,  though I laughed at the mentions of Apple and Alienware in the Q&A  session.
All I read was 30 pages of disdain for the dedicated Amiga fanbase,  so don't give them the satisfaction of giving them any press.  We are  irrelevant to them, for God's sake make them irrelevant to us.  They  have absolutely no intentions on doing anything to benefit any of us -  they are simply plodding along selling stickered PC's as "next gen  Amiga's".  Don't buy them if you don't agree with this ideal, and if  you'd prefer to make your own "Amiga", there's 100 guys on here that can  tell you how to do it for half the cost.  Isn't a single component in  the Amiga Mini that cannot be bought off the shelf.

Support the guys like Jens, and the AmigaKit type vendors - the guys  keeping the legacy/Classic Amiga market alive.  If I had the options of  cool HW when I had my old A4000 that I would now if I'd kept it, I'd be  in paradise.

The FPGA crews.  Mike @ FPGA Arcade, Natami crew, Minimig, etc.  These  are the guys getting their hands dirty, doing the soldering grunt work  trying to bring you an affordable blast from the past.  These guys are  an inspiration in a world when all our legacy gear is getting near 20  years old.
+1 to this. So many people behind so many projects have done more for this community than Barry ever has - who cares if they don't have The Name?

Quote from: Pyromania;689193
commodore-amiga.org appears to be down.
Guess their servers "couldn't handle the traffic!" :rofl:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Terminills on April 17, 2012, 11:35:47 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;689193
commodore-amiga.org appears to be down.


nope it's fine ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 17, 2012, 11:48:28 PM
Quote from: Terminills;689198
nope it's fine ;)


It's just slow, it probably runs on an Amiga Mini...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Terminills on April 17, 2012, 11:49:44 PM
Quote from: persia;689199
It's just slow, it probably runs on an Amiga Mini...



pfft shows what you know it runs on an Amigaone. :P
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 17, 2012, 11:59:24 PM
Quote from: billt;689181
And this comes down to what each of us thinks an "Amiga" is or should be. We in the Amiga community expect an "Amiga" to provide something of the experience we think of when using our classic Amigas.


But I already gave the bare minimum for what is an Amiga. Linux+UAE/Windows+WinUAE is not an Amiga.

Quote from: Digiman;689171
My point is they are no more Amiga than a Dell PC running Linux+UAE/Windws+WinUAE/AROS with the circular Dell badge removed and replaced with a boing ball sticker. Can they run RTG screened/AHI audio enabled system friendly programs natively?


Natively = without UAE except for non-RTG/AHI stuff that needs Amiga chipset. ie what OS4 does.

So the only off the shelf Windows PC on sale you can remotely call NG Amiga is ARESone because it is built for AROS and the 100% working preloaded AROS Broadway achieves that goal. Amiga Mini may/may not even be 100% compatible and is sold only as a Linux x86 box. Amithlon is another option and you still need to buy AmigaOS 3.9 CD.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 18, 2012, 12:19:31 AM
Thinking about the car analogy....

New Mustang- looks almost identical, has a lovely V8, handles like a wet track testing session just like the original AND YET it has all new engine/body/interior. Result is nostalgic elders and new generation love it.

What our BS expert is doing is sticking a Mustang badge on a front wheel drive 4 cylinder Ford Focus and charging 100% mark up then calling it the next generation Mustang.

It will flop, why?

1. people who don't care it isn't even an AROS computer won't buy that spec for that price. PCs in that case sell on ebay for half his price.

2. people who would pay a bit extra like us for the name know it looks nothing like any Amiga EVER sold (inc prototypes) in design and is not even running Amithlon/AROS.

C64x is different, case and keyboard were unique and therefore had a novelty appeal looks wise just as an expensive toy to use with WinVICE.

Until an actual replica Amiga case is made nobody but a handful of retards will buy this "BS Amiga" :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: orb85750 on April 18, 2012, 12:34:18 AM
A mediocre capitalist who is more removed from the Amiga than anyone else, yet he has the rights to use the trade name.  Sad.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: toRus on April 18, 2012, 12:34:37 AM
I stopped reading right after the 5th line of the 1st answer. BS.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: wrath of khan on April 18, 2012, 01:18:40 AM
I read the whole thing and sadly only one fact is now completely apparent.He is quite literally just selling the name 'Amiga' for an exorbitant sum.Anyone could just rebadge a pc and it would be the same exact thing.I really don't see anything of note coming from this company at any point in the future which is made all the more apparent by his answers. I doubt that the name 'Amiga' stuck on a pc is enought to make any headway into the pc market either.These guys will be gone in a short few years.What are they offering over a regular pc to entice new users.So why would anyone want to buy the amiga mini or whatever it's called.Eventually another company might spring up calling themselves commodore and the cycle will continue...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 18, 2012, 01:43:07 AM
"The rainbow coloured ticker has huge appeal in the gay
communities, I know this first... hand... after visiting bars and
nightclubs in Amsterdam and San Francisco, wearing nothing
but a... wearing a dark purple T-shirt with huge Amiga ticker on
the chest. Are you considering the market appeal for "Amiga"
and rainbow ticker in the LGBT communities?"

Darrin, what a cute question you asked...   :knuddel:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: haywirepc on April 18, 2012, 01:43:20 AM
x86 it is, and **** you if you don't agree.

I have to admire their stance as truth in the face of lies and lies and more lies.
Come on *******s, **** fpga, **** powerpc its all dead dead dead.

At least they are on live hardware.

Oh **** I may have drank the cool aid.

Steven.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 18, 2012, 01:46:47 AM
Quote from: wrath of khan;689215
I read the whole thing and sadly only one fact is now completely apparent.He is quite literally just selling the name 'Amiga' for an exorbitant sum.Anyone could just rebadge a pc and it would be the same exact thing.I really don't see anything of note coming from this company at any point in the future which is made all the more apparent by his answers. I doubt that the name 'Amiga' stuck on a pc is enought to make any headway into the pc market either.These guys will be gone in a short few years.What are they offering over a regular pc to entice new users.So why would anyone want to buy the amiga mini or whatever it's called.Eventually another company might spring up calling themselves commodore and the cycle will continue...


I also got the impression he thinks C=USA is like Apple. Someone should tell him Apple....

1. Use a bespoke unique in-house exclusive OS.
2. Use a bespoke unique in-house designed case.
3. Offer bespoke unique in-house exclusive services to integrate iPad/iPhone/iPod
4. Were around as a company during the birth of the PET and VCS/2600.

C=USA was just some company that used to import furniture from Asia last decade.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Forcie on April 18, 2012, 01:55:57 AM
Pretty much confirmed all prejudice I had against the company. They only care about milking the name, nothing else. Kind of a kick in the groin to all the CUSA fans who tried to claim otherwise.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 18, 2012, 01:56:08 AM
Quote from: Kesa;689218
"The rainbow coloured ticker has huge appeal in the gay
communities, I know this first... hand... after visiting bars and
nightclubs in Amsterdam and San Francisco, wearing nothing
but a... wearing a dark purple T-shirt with huge Amiga ticker on
the chest. Are you considering the market appeal for "Amiga"
and rainbow ticker in the LGBT communities?"

Darrin, what a cute question you asked...   :knuddel:


Where did he answer that???!!!  ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 18, 2012, 01:56:41 AM
It's also pretty funny how this puts the lie to all the "well, we really do intend to do things you guys'd be interested in, if only you'll fund our ventures by buying our overpriced PC clones" talk...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: klx300r on April 18, 2012, 02:04:52 AM
let me see yet again, get a bog standard PC and run any Linux distro I want. Put any Amiga logo on it that i want.  Pay 70 percent less than the product being sold by CUSA.

YUP people will be running to buy your computers ONLY when your product is MUCH cheaper than all the other PC's out there.  Your marketing is absolutley ridiculous for a start up company. You don't enter an existing market priced way more expensive than long standing competitors with ZERO to distinguish yourselves from the already crowded PC market....sheesh:rant:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 18, 2012, 02:07:40 AM
I might have missed it, but where were the hundreds of thousands of sales to a high street retailer?

Ad company lies again?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 18, 2012, 02:07:43 AM
Quote from: Darrin;689222
Where did he answer that???!!!  ;)

Towards the bottom.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 18, 2012, 02:08:34 AM
Quote from: Kesa;689228
Towards the bottom.




Don't give up the day job.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 18, 2012, 02:21:29 AM
The rainbow coloured ticker has huge appeal in the gay
communities, I know this first... hand... after visiting bars and
nightclubs in Amsterdam and San Francisco, wearing nothing
but a... wearing a dark purple T-shirt with huge Amiga ticker on
the chest. Are you considering the market appeal for "Amiga"
and rainbow ticker in the LGBT communities?

That’s funny. Maybe we should create a line of Amiga clothing
especially for them. I’ll talk to our Director of Social Media and get his
take on this.

Download the linked RTF format doc I converted to search easily :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 18, 2012, 03:49:25 AM
Quote from: Darrin;689227
I might have missed it, but where were the hundreds of thousands of sales to a high street retailer?

Ad company lies again?


Maybe it was the same people who sent him fake photos of a "chinese" manufacturing plant?

Its a regular conspiracy
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A3KOne on April 18, 2012, 05:21:21 AM
Very simple summation of the entire interview:

I loved Commodore and Amiga.

Commodore and Amiga names had disappeared from the public eye.

We licensed the names to sell PC's running a custom Linux distro in an effort to revive the name and sell computers that have the name.

We have nothing to do with classic systems or updated systems from the classic tree, and really don't care to.  If you are into that, more power to you.  If you don't want what we have, don't buy it. We are not interested in selling what you want, we are interested in selling what we can make money off of.
_________________________________________________

If you think about it....It really isn't much different than the idea of the Amiga MCC under Gateway.  A custom cased Linux based PC (that looked a bit Mac-ish) with the Amiga name on it was all that would have been - but it would have been more "pure" since the product was to be produced by the IP holder and not a licensee. Had the MCC dropped in 1999, most of us would be happily running Amiga(Linux)OS.

I use Mint almost every day and like it... I might even consider purchasing an Amiga branded PC running a custom version if the case was cool and the price was competitive to comparable end product manufacturers.  As long as their prices are 2x Dell, I will be happy running my Asus laptop and homebrew desktop.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: fishy_fiz on April 18, 2012, 05:54:49 AM
I didnt read the rest of the thread, but it he's basically said:

 "We're doing nothing other than trying to milk some sales with the commodore and amiga names. We have nothing interesting technology wise. Both software and hardware are from other people. We have no interest in the amiga. We have no real idea what it is that people become attached to, heck we dont even really understand the machine and OS so we're going to pump something out for name followers."

Bit of a shame, the amiga deserves to be something other than a recognisable brand name. In it's heyday the Amiga was successful on its own meritts and not the name attached to it. Even Commodore, as silly as they were at times recognised this.
At the end of the day I dont care too much, it's not exactly a secret this is the route they were taking. My only concern is that it makes it harder for the systems we all follow (classics/os4/aros/mos) to attract more attention. I have no doubts that in the near future there'll be confusion on places like OSnews as to what an amiga based system is. There'll be plenty of people who end up just assuming its a linux based OS, ergo of no interest to them.
Having said this though, there appear to be new users and devs arriving daily in AROS-land, even despite the potential confusion C-USA are helping to generate. "Amiga" fans know what they liked about the amiga/amiga os, and theyre the same things they'll find with aros/os4/mos, but lacking in C-USA amiga branded systems.

Remove the ahead of the curve games, graphics, software that attracted so many people to the amiga back in its heyday (mainstream users) all that's left if the OS. This is only of interest to a small portion of users, and a lot of the users that are interested are informed enough to know what theyre getting into (not just name followers)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: cicero790 on April 18, 2012, 09:05:08 AM
Thanks for an interesting interview.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Snoozy on April 18, 2012, 11:00:16 AM
I think that what most of us have come to recognise is that what C-USA is doing with the commodore/amiga brand is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
 
C-USA have confirmed that they are largely irrelevant to the retro amiga community.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: rewlako on April 18, 2012, 11:05:01 AM
Long time lurker here.  Just want my three cents in on this one, for those of you in favor of C=USA.

First, using the car analogy mentioned earlier for C=USA is flawed (an example mentioned was the new beetle versus the original) This isn't anything like that. If C=USA made cars, they would take a 2005 Fiat, slap a Chevrolet sticker on it and claim it's the new 2012 Chevy Impala.  And sell it for a ridiculous price.

Second, those of you who used the Amiga in the good old days (and not just bought one last year in an attempt to be a hipster) knows that the Amiga has always been at war with the PC.  The PC was its main competitor after the Atari disappeared.  Producing Amiga's with PC hardware is literally like spitting and pissing on the original Amiga's grave.  Absolutely appalling.

Third, The Amigas they "produce" have nothing to do with Amiga, there is absolutely no resemblance, neither runs an Amiga OS, you can't use old hardware or software on any of them.  The only thing they have in common is the name.  And guess what, they're using it so they can sell it to nostalgic suckers like you guys, and you're chugging the bait down like there's no tomorrow.

I hope some of you get the chance to read this post before the C=USA sponsored Amiga.org removes it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: crawff on April 18, 2012, 11:17:41 AM
Welcome!!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TurricanX on April 18, 2012, 12:04:37 PM
Quote from: rewlako;689287
Long time lurker here. Just want my three cents in on this one, for those of you in favor of C=USA.
 
First, using the car analogy mentioned earlier for C=USA is flawed (an example mentioned was the new beetle versus the original) This isn't anything like that. If C=USA made cars, they would take a 2005 Fiat, slap a Chevrolet sticker on it and claim it's the new 2012 Chevy Impala. And sell it for a ridiculous price.
 
Second, those of you who used the Amiga in the good old days (and not just bought one last year in an attempt to be a hipster) knows that the Amiga has always been at war with the PC. The PC was its main competitor after the Atari disappeared. Producing Amiga's with PC hardware is literally like spitting and pissing on the original Amiga's grave. Absolutely appalling.
 
Third, The Amigas they "produce" have nothing to do with Amiga, there is absolutely no resemblance, neither runs an Amiga OS, you can't use old hardware or software on any of them. The only thing they have in common is the name. And guess what, they're using it so they can sell it to nostalgic suckers like you guys, and you're chugging the bait down like there's no tomorrow.
 
I hope some of you get the chance to read this post before the C=USA sponsored Amiga.org removes it.

I was trying my best to remain pretty neutral on the whole thing until I read the interview. I believe what you've just said there pretty much sums up my feelings on C=USA.
 
Until a company/person who cares about the actual future of Amiga or Commodore, or restoring these companies to their former glory, owns the names C=USA will be allowed to continue to sell their overpriced custom PC's with that name slapped on them.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: fishy_fiz on April 18, 2012, 01:17:37 PM
Quote from: rewlako;689287

Third, The Amigas they "produce" have nothing to do with Amiga, there is absolutely no resemblance, neither runs an Amiga OS, you can't use old hardware or software on any of them.  The only thing they have in common is the name.  And guess what, they're using it so they can sell it to nostalgic suckers like you guys, and you're chugging the bait down like there's no tomorrow.

I hope some of you get the chance to read this post before the C=USA sponsored Amiga.org removes it.


While some of what you said I more or less agree with, this last paragraph is a bit baffling.
Which Amiga.org have you been reading for the last few years? It definately doesnt sound like the one Ive been using. There's pretty much no-one who's buying into what C-USA are selling. In fact despite having no interest in them the over the top anti C-USA sentiment that's so prominent here gets a bit tiring (as does any over the top sentiment).
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: rewlako on April 18, 2012, 02:30:49 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;689305
While some of what you said I more or less agree with, this last paragraph is a bit baffling.
Which Amiga.org have you been reading for the last few years? It definately doesnt sound like the one Ive been using. There's pretty much no-one who's buying into what C-USA are selling. In fact despite having no interest in them the over the top anti C-USA sentiment that's so prominent here gets a bit tiring (as does any over the top sentiment).


I don't see why the last paragraph shouldn't come as a shock, if you have been frequenting this site the past year you should have noticed Transition's frequent bumping of C=USA threads.  Do you think he's doing it for fun, for free?

Examples: 1 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=675845#post675845), 2 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60122&pp=15&page=4#td_post_674426), 3 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60070&pp=15&page=20#post_message_676808) - the list is long, just search and you'll find more.

I'm all vented now, so I guess I'll go back to lurking.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: fishy_fiz on April 18, 2012, 02:49:43 PM
That may (or may not) be the case, but it doesnt mean people are buying it, which is what you said. Pretty much every C-USA thread here shows what people think of them and thier products, and its not flattering to C-USA.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: rewlako on April 18, 2012, 02:59:07 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;689317
That may (or may not) be the case, but it doesnt mean people are buying it, which is what you said. Pretty much every C-USA thread here shows what people think of them and thier products, and its not flattering to C-USA.


Ah, now I see what you mean.  If you read my post again you'll see it was for "those of you in favor of C=USA."

I'm sure those concerned know who they are.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Heiroglyph on April 18, 2012, 03:00:48 PM
Someone explain to me how he could make anything more Amiga-like while using the Amiga name after the AOS legal fiasco?

It sounded to me like every time they even try to make it look or feel more Amiga-like, they risk losing the name and being sued by Hyperion.

If it would sell another 100 units to hard-core Amigans, you don't think he'd have slapped AROS on there too?  Sure he would, but he can't.

Thanks to Hyperion and AI, what CUSA is doing is pretty much all that's legally possible without building a custom outdated PPC board, yet CUSA gets all the hate.

There is plenty of hate to go around here, but I think a lot of it is misdirected.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 18, 2012, 03:07:13 PM
there might be some truth in it what you say. But I think they would be better off when they had only used "Commodore" and built PC with preinstalled Aros. And when they not install anything "amigian" on it, their products are not interesting for the community. And outside people look at the price and will not buy it just because the label on it. "Amiga" is still recognized by many but not so important that people pay every price...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: cicero790 on April 18, 2012, 03:36:24 PM
@Heiroglyph
+1

Hope now lies on strategy.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: hardwired on April 18, 2012, 03:42:49 PM
I could make a long post here...

Or I could just link to the text in my blog:http://aros-wandering.blogspot.pt/2012/04/pills-are-really-messed-up.html

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JGPabakfkQM/T47Lxy_9dKI/AAAAAAAAALM/CNc74JAYyVo/s1600/AmigaSpirit_SM.png)

I wouldn't jump on conclusions regarding the image above. There is no judgement passed here! Read the blog text...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: spirantho on April 18, 2012, 03:51:02 PM
Quote from: Heiroglyph;689320
Someone explain to me how he could make anything more Amiga-like while using the Amiga name after the AOS legal fiasco?

It sounded to me like every time they even try to make it look or feel more Amiga-like, they risk losing the name and being sued by Hyperion.

If it would sell another 100 units to hard-core Amigans, you don't think he'd have slapped AROS on there too?  Sure he would, but he can't.

Thanks to Hyperion and AI, what CUSA is doing is pretty much all that's legally possible without building a custom outdated PPC board, yet CUSA gets all the hate.

There is plenty of hate to go around here, but I think a lot of it is misdirected.


Barry has stated quite clearly he has no interest in using AROS or AmigaOS or anything like it as he wants to bring the brands Commodore and Amiga back to the mainstream - which we all know he can't do with those OSes as they just don't have the software base.

Hyperion is irrelevant here (except for being used as a scapegoat) - if there was no lawsuit, there is still 0% chance he'd use AROS in place of Linux, he basically says as much in his answers.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: pixie on April 18, 2012, 07:51:03 PM
Quote from: spirantho;689332
Barry has stated quite clearly he has no interest in using AROS or AmigaOS or anything like it as he wants to bring the brands Commodore and Amiga back to the mainstream - which we all know he can't do with those OSes as they just don't have the software base.

Hyperion is irrelevant here (except for being used as a scapegoat) - if there was no lawsuit, there is still 0% chance he'd use AROS in place of Linux, he basically says as much in his answers.


He stated quite clear that he has a business to run, and that AROS isn't ready for prime time, he's he really to blame? The thing is, if you want to blame someone blame Hyperion for that ridiculous clause. I wonder if the reason OS4 is approaching world domination by the day is due to it, I wonder how they would be if it wasn't for it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2012, 10:52:32 PM
All I see is an overpriced, underpowered X86 box running a slightly visually modified Linux Mint distro.  Not impressed with the hardware or CUSA.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2012, 10:54:26 PM
Quote from: hardwired;689328
I could make a long post here...

Or I could just link to the text in my blog:http://aros-wandering.blogspot.pt/2012/04/pills-are-really-messed-up.html

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JGPabakfkQM/T47Lxy_9dKI/AAAAAAAAALM/CNc74JAYyVo/s1600/AmigaSpirit_SM.png)

I wouldn't jump on conclusions regarding the image above. There is no judgement passed here! Read the blog text...



I'd put genesi in the same group as MorphOS and Hyperion.  BB did alot to further MorphOS.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheMagicM on April 18, 2012, 11:00:28 PM
Quote from: toRus;689207
I stopped reading right after the 5th line of the 1st answer. BS.


LOL... I stopped maybe 2 or 3 answers farther down.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 19, 2012, 01:06:34 AM
I guess most of us agree it was a waste of his time given he has spent hours typing up what effectively is confirmation that C=USA Amiga will only ever be branded stock Wintel machines without Windows licence in the box.

I know for a fact if they had produced a replica case with [micro] ATX mountings of say the 1000,500,3000 or 1200 it might have held some interest. That was the only reason 64x sold at all.

VIC Slim and Amiga Mini will be a very rude awakening for C=USA.

However this is not the first time. Anybody remember the Commodore gaming PC line? And remember what happened to them.....
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 02:09:33 AM
Quote from: Digiman;689464
However this is not the first time. Anybody remember the Commodore gaming PC line? And remember what happened to them.....


Oh yes.  And they didn't even piss off Amiga users.  Plus their prices were cheaper and included a Windows OS.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 19, 2012, 02:50:52 AM
Are you talking about those cases with custom paint jobs? They look really cool but have seen one in real life. Any good?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: confused2 on April 19, 2012, 03:02:47 AM
if you think about it, if they were to produce their current computers with the same quality but at a more reasonable price, they could gain users and capital to become a bigger player in the computing world, if they did sell them for a more reasonable price they could get more people using them, and get more money and users to restablish their name among the younger generations, then eventually release a cusom OS like the Amiga OS as an alternative OS, people (already familiar with the computer by this time) could/would develop more software, and eventually it could have the potential to be a 3rd competitor in the Mac, Windows world.

But they wont, so that whole hypothetical above is pointless.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 03:29:17 AM
Quote from: confused2;689487
if you think about it, if they were to produce their current computers with the same quality but at a more reasonable price, they could gain users and capital to become a bigger player in the computing world, if they did sell them for a more reasonable price they could get more people using them, and get more money and users to restablish their name among the younger generations, then eventually release a cusom OS like the Amiga OS as an alternative OS, people (already familiar with the computer by this time) could/would develop more software, and eventually it could have the potential to be a 3rd competitor in the Mac, Windows world.

But they wont, so that whole hypothetical above is pointless.


They'll also need to provide support without pushing that liability onto the resellers they hope to recruit.

I think Barry is in for a rude awakening when he discovers that there is a massive difference between running a furniture business and a computer business.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Argo on April 19, 2012, 04:45:08 AM
I can't wait for the New Commodore Colt!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheBilgeRat on April 19, 2012, 05:29:13 AM
Quote from: Argo;689500
I can't wait for the New Commodore Colt!


I'm waiting for the Vic Slim amiga A4000+++!!!!1111oneoneone PET
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: confused2 on April 19, 2012, 06:24:11 AM
Even though it packs some pretty nice hardware, the price is REALLY high!! especially since most of the people who know about the Amiga computers probably have a computer that could run linux if they wanted to use it instead of Morph OS or AROS or AmigaOS4.x.  

The least they could have done is set up the GUI to look semi similar to classic amiga with the close button on the left, and the other 2 buttons on the right, none of the current OSs (Windows, OSX) do that, it would set them apart.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 19, 2012, 06:41:35 AM
Geez I never though I would make it to the end of the thread...  Definitely CUSA discussions are driving alot of site traffic..

I've just started reading the responses, but no offence this guy really reminds me of my first boss.  

Small Business Operator thats optimistic about everything even when they are not tuned in with the people, thinking up how to capitalise on every single opportunity with minimal investment even if it doesn't make 100% sense, riding on the back on other peoples/companies reputations in the hope it will equal more sales!  Sell sell sell!!

I bow my head in shame when I heard my first boss excitingly talk about Steve Ballmer chanting developers developers developers for that whole monkey dance TechEd scene, thinking that validates his next business direction (MS development) for his small business with limited resources.  I definitely had alot of moments when that boss didn't listen to me and I kept on saying told you so after the fact.. definitely not tuned in with reality.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: confused2 on April 19, 2012, 06:53:27 AM
Such a shame, i hope they do well and can farther expand and become more of what most Amiga lovers would like, he cant do that in today's market as a new guy, they would have to become a big company before they could make our idea of a modern Amiga a reality.

P.S. sorry if i am posting too much, this is actually the first forum that i have actually joined, i usually just look and read, never post.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 19, 2012, 07:45:27 AM
Quote from: confused2;689511
Such a shame, i hope they do well and can farther expand and become more of what most Amiga lovers would like, he cant do that in today's market as a new guy, they would have to become a big company before they could make our idea of a modern Amiga a reality.


I doubt true Amiga lovers would go for this.   Sticker tax is way too much which will lower sale expectations.  Only ppl I see buying it, are the ones that had an c64/amiga/other old skool type but dreamt of an amiga, haven't been active for years (give or take 20 years) on original hardware or emulation so totally out of touch with the scene.  Then here comes a company using keynames Commodore & Amiga which invokes passion inside, then uneducated out of touch user hands over a wad of cash.  ( No offence to middleman)  Same effect happens when ppl dont first research their purchasing decisions and end up paying alot more..   If they made lower margin then fine they may have larger chance for success.. but since they are a small company they need the $$$ so up go the prices just for the name/sticker..  oh well.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Mangar on April 19, 2012, 07:47:07 AM
I'm a linux noob. I've tried a number of linux distros over the years. I find the commodore OS Vision distro fun. Sure, it's not a spectacular feat of engineering but it have the old commodore feel of fun for me.

I just bought an iMac today for $1600. I could have built a similar spec'd x86 machine for half that. But I didn't. And millions of others didn't.

Do you think Dell engineers their own computers? Why hate against a company with enough balls to pony up to pay for the license for the commodore and amiga brands? They have already done more than Amiga inc ever did with it. Sure, it's not the classic Amiga or a new amiga but that will never happen.

I hope they do well. They are no Mehdi Ali or Gould. All profitable home computers these days run on x86 architecture. Macs and PC's. Mobile computing is the future. There are 3 major OS's available these days. Cusa does not need to re-invent the wheel. Just create something that has a sense of style customized with the spirit of Commodore.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 19, 2012, 07:58:25 AM
Quote from: Mangar;689514

I just bought an iMac today for $1600. I could have built a similar spec'd x86 machine for half that. But I didn't. And millions of others didn't.

I hope they do well. They are no Mehdi Ali or Gould. All profitable home computers these days run on x86 architecture. Macs and PC's. Mobile computing is the future. There are 3 major OS's available these days. Cusa does not need to re-invent the wheel. Just create something that has a sense of style customized with the spirit of Commodore.


Linux should make computers cheaper for Windows tax, not more expensive. While all summed is true with Mac you at least get MacOSX and Mac designed components which is added value, while with CUSA Amiga Mini is none. With C64x at least was a new designed case/keyboard.

With too greedy strategy, there is a fat chance they will do well in such a competitive world.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: BigBenAussie on April 19, 2012, 08:13:51 AM
I really have to wonder if people are reading the same interview I was reading.
Commodore USA is currently a small company, with limited resources, and with limits to Amiga IP usage. We are doing the best, with the IP we have available to us, as we possibly can.
It's all fine to sit there and say, oh, I woulda done this I woulda done that.
We have to be rational about our business right now so as to avoid potential money pits. We're in it for the long haul.
We would love to do all the various things the community want, but we quite simply can't at the moment for various reasons both legal and financial.
But be assured that it isn't because we have no interest in doing so.
If we had the kind of money that would allow us to take such risks, and tackle such projects, then of course we would.
But, I do see that only as a matter of time...and a great many of our fans realise this even if the people on this particular forum do not, or for some kind of vested interest don't want it to be so.
All we can do right now is make a go of it with our current strategy of using commodity hardware and a custom branded OS.
There are pros and cons to this of course, but right now, the pros far outnumber the cons. Our strategy has been enough to enable us to establish ourselves.
Granted, things aren't perfect right now, in terms of products and pricing, but it is better to refine our product strategy than never to launch at all, and we still haven't even played our best cards.
We had the good fortune to be able to acquire usage of the trademarks, and there's no point sitting on them and doing nothing with them just because it isn't 100% what we wanted from day one. That gets you nowhere and Rome was not built in a day. Sitting still does not open up possibilities.
There is no other possible choice available to us than what we are doing right now, as much as everyone here might jump up and down about it.
I am sure we can all agree, money makes all things possible.
Unless you have selective reading it was stated a few times in the interview that we were willing to do what the next gen AmigaOS community wanted if we were able to.
We actually WANT to do all the cool things the community want us to do because we also believe it to be quite interesting, and in many ways align with our ultimate strategy.
We wanted to do AROS, for instance, but can't, and really, it isn't worth going into a protracted court battle over. We are open to the possibility of classic hardware recreation, but that requires money, and is quite a risk as well, with all the lead time and product development that would need to take place before a finished product.
We would love to include AmigaOS in our line up, especially for x86....but none of these things seem possible right now. There's no point blaming us for that.
Do you really think we have not looked into and considered every conceivable option?
That's just the way it is, and if you want that to change, then there is no point lobbying us, because we are in agreement.
I quite honestly believe you should pray for our success, not our failure, because we want to be the catalyst that re-unites all facets of the Amiga IP, and ultimately create the kind of high tech computer and environment all Amiga fans would like to use and see further developed.
We have stated many times that we are open to such cooperation.
I guess what is most infuriating for Barry and I, reading all these comments, is that we forget that you aren't aware of our future plans or our ultimate goals, and seem to believe what you see now is all there will ever be. We're so not against your ideas and sensibilities. We are trying to get to the point where we can make all your (and ours, because they are the same) Amiga dreams come true, and this requires money. Unfortunately, to obtain the money to reach a state where we can do this currently requires a detour (which both you and I, as AmigaOS fans, find annoying) in order to get there. Our plans and products will evolve. We aren't your enemy as much as you would all like to think us so. We aren't doing what we are doing because we refuse to cooperate, but because we have no other choice right now. You feel a sting right now, I know, but I believe it will all work out for the best in the end.
That that is why we always close with....The best is yet to come....because we honestly believe that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 19, 2012, 08:30:18 AM
Quote from: vox;689516
Linux should make computers cheaper for Windows tax, not more expensive.

You'd be suprised at how little you pay for a Windows license in bulk. The cost is also reduced by things like free trials of antivirus etc. Everything about Linux is expected to be free, so this doesn't happen.
 
Linux is always going to be niche on the desktop. It only makes sense in embedded or server products.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: rewlako on April 19, 2012, 08:35:41 AM
Quote from: Mangar;689514
I'm a linux noob. I've tried a number of linux distros over the years. I find the commodore OS Vision distro fun.


No, you haven't tried many distros.  Maybe a couple.

Quote
I just bought an iMac today for $1600. I could have built a similar spec'd x86 machine for half that. But I didn't. And millions of others didn't.


Did you buy it because of the Apple sticker, or did you buy it because of the OS it runs?

Quote
I hope they do well. They are no Mehdi Ali or Gould. All profitable home computers these days run on x86 architecture. Macs and PC's. Mobile computing is the future. There are 3 major OS's available these days. Cusa does not need to re-invent the wheel. Just create something that has a sense of style customized with the spirit of Commodore.


That's not what worries me.  What worries me the most is that they are milking and abusing a brand it is not related to in any way.  There is absolutely nothing Amiga about CUSA's computers.

If CUSA stopped using the names "Commodore" and "Amiga", I would shut up and wish them all well.  But until then, they can make up their own brand, or find another one to abuse.  They're not going to destroy the good memory of Commodore and Amiga with this crap!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 19, 2012, 08:38:07 AM
Quote from: Mangar;689514
I just bought an iMac today for $1600. I could have built a similar spec'd x86 machine for half that. But I didn't. And millions of others didn't.


Cant really compare a iMac, Apple products have their own original unique elegant design and a very polished intuitive OS (1000's of mans hours of development time)  even though its built on BSD, also your buying into the Apple ecosystem as well that works with their other products. So theres more perceived value to the $1600 even though its very expensive for myself.   A bit different from off the shelf customised linux and off the shelf pc hardware in a not so unique chinese case except for the C64 thats a good case at least it looks like the original Commodore but I still dont agree with their pricing especially when you can buy the hardware cheap.

Quote from: Mangar;689514

Do you think Dell engineers their own computers? Why hate against a company with enough balls to pony up to pay for the license for the commodore and amiga brands?


Nope Dell are just cheapo chinese budget computers (out of all the other brand names so not including no-names here) that are highly configurable at point of purchase..  Alienware a premium brand for them which isn't as bad with some appeal. ie styling and LED's here and there with light up keyboards..    

Hate is a strong word, other ppl can get wrong impressions of other ppls preceptions and get the wrong idea.. My version of hate is to add in swear words, with more agressive wording bordering trolling.. I see healthy discussion here siding more to the negative side, but not too negative.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 19, 2012, 08:42:51 AM
Quote from: rewlako;689526


That's not what worries me.  What worries me the most is that they are milking and abusing a brand it is not related to in any way.  There is absolutely nothing Amiga about CUSA's computers.


Exactly my worries as well, thats why I saw the interview to be like a typical small business mentally.. Ride on the back of big names to make yourself look bigger = more success in the market place..  With Apple, they invented a name for themselves instead of using other peoples names..

Man I dont even like talking about Apple and Im kind of sticking up for them.. :(

PS - the Amiga CUSA cases do have the word Amiga on them thats probably only one thing I can see thats Amiga about them.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: spirantho on April 19, 2012, 08:45:33 AM
Leo, you have my respect for coming here to answer critics, really you do. But you must understand that what you're saying is at odds with what we've seen from CUSA - or, more precisely, Barry.
Until CUSA do SOMETHING to further AmigaOS, even if it's only 10 bucks in a bounty somewhere, then all we see are promises and pipe dreams.
Just a token contribution would go such a long way.....
Speaking as a company owner, if I could buy that much good P.R. for so little, I'd be all over it in a flash.
You have here an audience who *want* to believe, but CUSA are just not using that untapped resource. That's what I don't understand.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 19, 2012, 08:49:37 AM
Quote from: spirantho;689531

You have here an audience who *want* to believe, but CUSA are just not using that untapped resource. That's what I don't understand.


Yep exactly out of touch with the ppl!   Maybe his passion is simply misdirected, on the wrong path ?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: cicero790 on April 19, 2012, 08:59:05 AM
Your efforts are appreciated. I hope cooperation with Hyperion will be possible, so all things could fall into place again.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 19, 2012, 09:27:25 AM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689521
I really have to wonder if people are reading the same interview I was reading.
Commodore USA is currently a small company, with limited resources, and with limits to Amiga IP usage. We are doing the best, with the IP we have available to us, as we possibly can.

You feel a sting right now, I know, but I believe it will all work out for the best in the end.
That that is why we always close with....The best is yet to come....because we honestly believe that.

Taking this as market survival strategy more focus on obtaining cheaper components (or lowering price some other way to be more competitive) would be essential. Even obtaining Windows 7 OEM licences would help to have dual boot machines with Amiga Forever also in Windows. Here and with not a mention of AmigaOS or heritage is just way too high price that kills it as survival strategy. Work more to get more.
At current rate you are completely non-competitive to any brand, including Apple.

Barry`s answers were not "we plan to but we can`t with existing resources, maybe 2013 and beyond" it was mostly laughing and categorical NO.

Also decent PR and marketing, not one that overrepresents the brand or insults other AmigaOS flavours, and more professional, not last minute one with early announcements but "when it`s done" would make company look better.

So far there was not much good seen to expect better.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: BigBenAussie on April 19, 2012, 09:45:54 AM
Vox. For once there is some constructive criticism in your response.
We know we have to lift our game and provide better value for money.
To have any chance at being competitive a company is required to go through continual cycles of improvement of its products and strategy.
We'll get there eventually.
At the moment AmigaOS has nothing to do with our products and we state as much on our Commodore OS page if you would care to look at it.
Whether you find that insulting or not...it is beyond our control at the moment.
And honestly, it is easily alleviated by installing AROS, whether we can do anything with it commercially or not.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Bamiga2002 on April 19, 2012, 09:51:03 AM
If you don't have the funds please sell the brand names to someone who has the cash and understanding/will to steer things into right direction. Don't mud the Amiga-brand with anymore products that aren't related to it.

And no more lies please...:sealed:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheDaddy on April 19, 2012, 10:39:18 AM
One question hasn't been answered.

What will it take for you to go away and leave us alone?
Is it because money has been given to amiga.org?

I read through the "interview" and honestly it's a load of bollocks.

Nothing we didn't know already, more insults added left and right, this time toned down a bit.

Illusion of grandeur all over. Comparing themselves to Apple several times. Apple I say. APPLE!

Jez...how deluded!

Also justifying the fact that IF Apple can "steal" stuff so can we.....ahhhh that makes it ok then.

You don't mind me "stealing" the Amiga name do you? Just for a bit?

And the cherry on the cake was: "It's not our fault the $30 million budget thing...it was the agency's idea and we don't do business with them any more"

LOL! :)

This really is top comedian's stuff.

I feel sorry for Leo and the followers...really do.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheDaddy on April 19, 2012, 10:41:33 AM
@Leo

Man you are saying the exact opposite of what your boss has just said!

Do you two even talk to each other?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TurricanX on April 19, 2012, 11:35:47 AM
I used to build custom desktop PCs for people as a hobby, based on their particular needs. I certainly never slapped a well known brand name on the case and claimed it was something else though and then tried to sell it for more money.
 
You work for a soulless money making machine that's had the unfortunate good sense to secure the rights to a once popular and fondly remembered brand name. The whole 'Amiga' is a concept thing is just an excuse to do what you want with the name, I've heard and seen it many times before from companies who have acquired brand names.
 
You have no passion for building or developing new technology, for continuing to develop and improve on Commodore or Amiga chipsets, or to provide a gaming and entertainment platform for all things Amiga old and new in the Amiga community.
 
I might as well just build my own PC and put an Amiga sticker on it. Or, in fact, bottle my own tap water and sell it as 'Amiga water'. If only I had the rights.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Forcie on April 19, 2012, 12:16:49 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689521
We actually WANT to do all the cool things the community want us to do because we also believe it to be quite interesting, and in many ways align with our ultimate strategy.

I actually liked it better when Barry said something along the lines of "if you aren't interested in our generic PC crap with an insane markup, don't buy it", and made it clear that he is not interested in supporting the community in any way in the interview.
At least that felt something like drawing a line in the sand after spamming the community for years without being able to show a single thing of interest to it except for "Look! we have a shiny logotype from the 80's!".

So, at least have the common courtesy to fall in line behind your boss and shut up now, because he clearly confirmed what your critics have saying from the very beginning. And IF you have anything of value to contribute to the community in say three years (although I doubt that you survive that long as a company considering how you have been conducting your business), kindly stop your tiresome spamming until then. Thank you.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 19, 2012, 12:35:24 PM
Quote from: TheDaddy;689548
One question hasn't been answered.

What will it take for you to go away and leave us alone?
Is it because money has been given to amiga.org?

I read through the "interview" and honestly it's a load of bollocks.

Nothing we didn't know already, more insults added left and right, this time toned down a bit.

Illusion of grandeur all over. Comparing themselves to Apple several times. Apple I say. APPLE!

Jez...how deluded!

Also justifying the fact that IF Apple can "steal" stuff so can we.....ahhhh that makes it ok then.

You don't mind me "stealing" the Amiga name do you? Just for a bit?

And the cherry on the cake was: "It's not our fault the $30 million budget thing...it was the agency's idea and we don't do business with them any more"

LOL! :)

This really is top comedian's stuff.

I feel sorry for Leo and the followers...really do.


How can anyone add to that? 100% spot on! My feelings towards CUSA have certainly soured since reading the answers and I was not impressed beforehand. I so hoped they would redeem themselves somehow. It's not just CUSA either, they got the Amiga name under license from Amiga inc after all is said and done. I'm pretty sick of them too.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 19, 2012, 01:08:52 PM
Quote from: TheDaddy;689549
@Leo

Man you are saying the exact opposite of what your boss has just said!

Do you two even talk to each other?


+1

Are they playing good cop bad cop?  Barry made it clear he has no interest in NG or Classic Amiga.  It's just a name.  I've moved on, I no longer expect Amiga to return in any real sense.  Can't we just leave it at that, you guys do what you want to try to survive and stop coming to sites devoted to the classic Amiga?  Let's just put some space between us, you have nothing for us, we have nothing for you.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dougal on April 19, 2012, 01:09:11 PM
All CUSA needs to do is somehow get Amiga OS4 ported to their systems and have better pricing. They have done much more with the Commodore & Amiga brands then anyone has done in the last 15 years.

I can't believe that nobody has insulted the manufactures of the SamXXX motherboards.  They are outdated, slow and overpriced and they don't have anything to do with Amiga other than the fact that Amiga OS4 will run on them.

Its about time Amiga OS4 went x86. PPC is dead and is only useful for games consoles and anybody who says PPC is not dead is only hanging on to the past. Apple has abandoned them more than 5 years ago now after so long.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: _ThEcRoW on April 19, 2012, 01:39:58 PM
@Dougal

Wow, one person with common sense in a trashed thread!
+1000 points on your post.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kalvan on April 19, 2012, 01:49:19 PM
From reading their posts, I can only come to one conclusion.
 
Commodore USA isn't a business, it's a get rich quick scheme. If it had been a business, there would have been more effort placed in making the Amiga stand out from the rest of Today's computing world through hardware, software, and user interface diferentation. Okay, Hyperion is threatening to sue if Commodore USA uses an Amiga OS alike. They can either use MorphOS or AROS with Natami and call Hyperion's bluff (And it absolutely is a bluff; by now all patents on AmigaOS Calls have expired, and documentation on any hypothetically copyright infringing code is trivially simple to verify or disporve) or they can build the computer Jay Miner would have built if he were around today, and without even looking at anything at Intel.
 
On paper, my Hibana (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60096) series of computers seem rather expensive to make, but in actuallity, most of the real heavy lifting is already done. MIPS, Imagination Technologies, Renesis, Adapteva, Lucid Technologies, Texas Instruments, Achronix, Quallcomn/Bigfoot Networks, Micron Technologies, RAMBUS, all those companies and their respective IP exist right now. Even the Apollo CPU core now exists in a form tangible enough to start taking orders on. All that's needed (at most) is manipulating blocks of transistors to fit on dies. (Okay, an RLD3 RAM Controller will need to be designed from scratch, but that isn't too onerous) The only "custom" chip that really needs effort on is the extended AMY or PAULA chips, but even then the original articles are out there in the wild. I mean, how much effort would it be to hook one of those up to a data analyzer, then expand and extend it as I talked about?
 
The software side of things will be harder to wrangle together, since they would need to hire conplier writers first, but once that's over with, things should pregress remarkably smoothly. For one thing, every standard text on D and Scala speak of code length reductions of at least 80% and often as much as 95%.
 
And as for motherboards, well, until they can aford a factory of their own, they can always contract out to the likes of Pegatron and ASRock for R&D and production.
 
But that's just the way I see it. Am I missing anything?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 19, 2012, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Mangar;689514
I'm a linux noob. I've tried a number of linux distros over the years. I find the commodore OS Vision distro fun. Sure, it's not a spectacular feat of engineering but it have the old commodore feel of fun for me.

I just bought an iMac today for $1600. I could have built a similar spec'd x86 machine for half that. But I didn't. And millions of others didn't.

Do you think Dell engineers their own computers? Why hate against a company with enough balls to pony up to pay for the license for the commodore and amiga brands? They have already done more than Amiga inc ever did with it. Sure, it's not the classic Amiga or a new amiga but that will never happen.

I hope they do well. They are no Mehdi Ali or Gould. All profitable home computers these days run on x86 architecture. Macs and PC's. Mobile computing is the future. There are 3 major OS's available these days. Cusa does not need to re-invent the wheel. Just create something that has a sense of style customized with the spirit of Commodore.


A few differences here regarding VIC SLIM & AMIGA MINI (put C64x to one side for now, at least it is unique looking) .

1. They have done less than the producers of x1000 and the SAM460 based 500 thing. Their machines run OS4. They have done less than Hyperion and the MorphOS team on software side. They have done less than Bernie (Amithlon) or AROS team to integrate Amiga OS into regular x86 architecture.

2. Apple iMac $1600 vs MSI Wind AIO $750 is not the same situation. Apple have a unique in house OS with in-house bespoke apps and have a unique case styling. All supported by cloud based services that instantly allow access to say photos taken on iPhone to appear on your iMac via proprietory mods to their OS. I can buy the Amiga Mini case for £75 and an identical motherboard and run Linux on it. Even run XP with an OS4 visual style see?

3. Even going down this x86 route an Amiga in 1988 did MORE than a 286 PC costing twice as much and was nicer to use with superior creative software and far superior games. Now their Amiga costs twice as much and runs the same OS and apps as everyone else.

If he was serious he would offer the same gaming performance as a DELL XPS PC but at significant savings in cost say 33% all in a bespoke unique case. This is nothing more than a quick buck operation raping the brand names from our cherished memories.

His ideas are poorly executed. The VIC SLIM should be a cost reduced Intel i3 2100K based computer in a white C64x case!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 19, 2012, 02:23:47 PM
Quote from: dougal;689560
They have done much more with the Commodore & Amiga brands then anyone has done in the last 15 years.


You shouldn't keep putting that LSD in your breakfast buddy, it's messing with your head.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 02:38:33 PM
Poor Ben comes here one more time to try and order us to accept Linux as Amiga.  Linux is Linux.  Slapping Amiga wallpapers on Windows 7 will not make that an AmigaOS either.

The simple solution for C-USA (as it always has been) is to stop abusing the Amiga name, stop insulting the existing AmigaOS solutions and just bugger off and try and sell their unsupported, overprices Commodore-USA PCs.  Actually, it seems their new plan (as I correctly predicted last year) is to have others sell their PCs, provide the support and hand over wads of cash for using the name.

The confusing thing is, why do they keep coming back here?  Why are they so hell bent in convincing us that they're the "Second Coming?  The only answer I can come up with is that they are DESPERATE for our cash.  I'm guessing that anyone who wants to join their reseller scheme is going to have to fork out around $10,000 so convincing just 10 of us to sign up is $100,000.  Convincing 10 of us to buy their existing models would probably reduce their dusty unsold inventory by 50%.

Just go away, sell your PCs and come back in 12 months and gloat if you're still around.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: cicero790 on April 19, 2012, 02:57:57 PM
@dougal

+1

I think Amiga deserves more than being pure retro.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 19, 2012, 03:06:41 PM
C-USA:

Enough.  We all read 30+ pages from your CEO, telling us not to buy if we didn't like it, 30+ pages stating any real Amiga innovation is not on the horizon.  30+ pages of patronizing insults and delusional grandeur from a CEO that seems to have read the Steve Jobs bio a couple times too many.  You don't need us, you don't want us, we once again are told we are not your target market.  Why you still here?

You are a commodity PC vendor that sells machines running Linux.  We're cool with that, but now that your CEO has stated there are absolutely no intentions from your company that will ever benefit users looking for the unique Amiga experience as we know it, stop the spam and go away before the dedicated users of A.org get sick (and leave due to it) of the constant drone of being preached to by a INTEL PC ASSEMBLER PUSHING LINUX....

Putting an Amiga sticker on a commodity case filled with commodity parts, running Linux does not make it Amiga in all eyes of the world.  Just like how a delusional person can put a Mercedes decal on a Honda and convince himself he's driving a luxury car, I guess it's all dependent on your perspective.  Yet some people still have thriving businesses selling Mercedes stickers to Honda owners - I suggest you go after that comparative market in your chosen field.

I wish you guys the best in your business, but no one comes to A.org to read about a Linux PC in a stickered case.  No one.  The fluff to real meat ratios of posts here are getting atrocious - all I care about is people not leaving A.org because of it.  Enough, ok?  We know where to find you.

Except, it isn't anymore.  Barry told us your products will never be what we're after, we were told there will never be anything other than stickered commodity PC's as the "vision" of the C-USA Amiga.  I'm cool with that, but man - for the love of this place I just wish Commodore USA would go away.

I'd be tarred and feathered if I started spamming ad's on A.org for my side hobby company that builds high end gaming PC's on a per order basis.
Why?  They are completely irrelevant to anything Amiga.  Just like C-USA is now irrelevant to us, by Barry's own admission.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kronos on April 19, 2012, 03:19:19 PM
Quote from: dougal;689560
They have done much more with the Commodore & Amiga brands then anyone has done in the last 15 years.


Mmmm 15 years you say ??
In 1997 C= and Amiga got divorced at when Escom was dissolved.

C= went to Tulip,"C= gaming" someone did that C64-Webbit and lots of cheap crap labelled C= .... NotCUSA is right on track I would say.

The Amiga !BRAND! went GateWay who did sweet flirting nothing with, except to sell it to a bunch of (imcompetent) scamsters..... again NotCUSA comes quite close here (especially on the imcompetent part).
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 19, 2012, 03:23:46 PM
Dell has done more for the amiga brand than CUSA has done, given they sell linux PC's far cheaper, provide better customer support (****ty as opposed to non-existing) and their CEO doesn't spend time insulting people on the internet.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 19, 2012, 03:34:17 PM
You are really not right there. Hyperion, MorphOS-team, the Aros-community and many 68k developer/user share the same ideas (however the OS is called). It would be nice if hardware and software bundles based on Amiga-API would be sold under "Amiga" but that is not priority. I have a used Notebook at home (2 Ghz+, 1 GB Ram) for just 100 EUR with Kubuntu installed. I see no big difference to their products right now (except that the components are "slightly" better and the label on it). Is there anything innovative on it (hardware and/or software)? No! Does 68k software run on it? No! Is it based in any way on the Amiga API? No! Do they support the community in any way? No! ("waste of money"). Do they have any serious intentions to do something with any of the camps? No! The only "yes" I can imagine... Do they want our money? Yes! As long as they do not have serious offers for us they should leave us our peace. They want to make money with the brand name? Fine. We cannot do anything against it. But as long as they have nothing interesting to offer (in our sense) they are only wasting our time.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: EDanaII on April 19, 2012, 03:37:57 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689521
We would love to do all the various things the community want, but we quite simply can't at the moment for various reasons both legal and financial.
But be assured that it isn't because we have no interest in doing so.


Please explain this, then, Leo:
Quote
Quote
Whatever happened to "Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community?
You all gave up. It still stands. It’s not our fault you can’t agree on anything or maybe there just aren’t enough of you out there. :-P


That doesn't sound like someone who "would love to do all the various things the community want." That sounds like a cynical response to what appeared to be a pretty cynical ploy to begin with. You and your boss made an offer to the community and then you copped out. You really wanna show some goodwill, then _try taking leadership_ of your challenge.

You and I have argued this before, previously, regarding AROS. You and Barry expect a community that is leaderless, with a thousand different views, looking in a thousand different directions, to take leadership for itself. If you REALLY want the goodwill of the community, then TAKE LEADERSHIP of that community by taking the mob where it wants to go.

And if you can't take leadership and give the mob what it wants... well, instead of being disappointed that they don't see things your way, maybe you should just go away until you can give them what they want.

Yes, no matter what you do, there will always be someone who doesn't like what your doing. Being a leader does not mean pleasing all of the people all of the time.

Two cents...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 19, 2012, 03:40:58 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689541
Vox. For once there is some constructive criticism in your response.
We know we have to lift our game and provide better value for money.
To have any chance at being competitive a company is required to go through continual cycles of improvement of its products and strategy.
We'll get there eventually.
At the moment AmigaOS has nothing to do with our products and we state as much on our Commodore OS page if you would care to look at it.
Whether you find that insulting or not...it is beyond our control at the moment.
And honestly, it is easily alleviated by installing AROS, whether we can do anything with it commercially or not.


I was also very positive in the early days seeing your Triple Boot video and genuine wish to support AROS. You are only IT literate person in the team, as much as website can tell, and much better in public appearance. Therefore, think of you as possible PR (or there is PR in team  with your advisory).

Beside great utilization of multi level marketing, big promises and modern popular psychology and bussiness schemes, we can‚t yet say you are success. Much to own behaviour, that creates opossition.

Limitations of Amiga Inc licence is something I expected you to be aware as well as limitation of all 3 current AmigaOS arhitectures. You could easily overcome them by agreement with Hyperion and AROS team e.g. you will for 2 years ship machines with AROS and now fund AROS development with 5-10% of profit (this might go to programmers hired not only bounties) and from e.g. 2014 fund OS 4.x transition to your motherboards only  at same level. That would provide great stability and viable future for all AmigaOS and CommodoreOS. And would mean support to you grant baby steps. During that time both AmigaOS or MorphOS or AROS could reach needed requirements and become your additional feature to already installed Ubuntu with AmigaForever or AmiKit.

Also using such antique OS could provide possibility for cheap x86 (+FPGA?) boards that couldnt run newest games, but do most of daily jobs and emulate consoles and Amiga experence (on Linux and Win7 Starter with best free software) plus dual boot to e.g. with improved Amithlon and Amiga Forever and pack of greatest Amiga games. Highest single core or lowest dual core with 2GB of fast RAM and decent graphics could run Linux, Windows 7 starter. And there are still VIA and such cheap suppliers of decent x86 CPUs. And with Kempston USB joysticks and great pack of games could really make a cheap retro appeal of everything working out of box.

Playing high end systems for home users isnt really gonna work out despite the name, and marketing efforts. C64x case is so far only real product of yours, shame its quite expensive.

There is still time until 2019.

Bottom line, having nothing to do with AmigaOS Amiga(OS) community has nothing to do with you really, so better focus on Linux and gamers forums.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 03:44:55 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;689586
That doesn't sound like someone who "would love to do all the various things the community want." That sounds like a cynical response to what appeared to be a pretty cynical ploy to begin with. You and your boss made an offer to the community and then you copped out. You really wanna show some goodwill, then _try taking leadership_ of your challenge.


It was obvious that they were not making a serious offer when they wouldn't answer any questions about what they were "capable" of  producing.  By not narrowing down the options they made sure there were too many ideas and that no one project whould reach the magic "500" number.

Even if one did, they would have found some reason not to do it and used it as an excuse to keep us quiet for a few months while they went about "business as usual".
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 19, 2012, 03:46:01 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689472
Oh yes.  And they didn't even piss off Amiga users.  Plus their prices were cheaper and included a Windows OS.



Let's be careful about heaping any praise upon Commodore Gaming as a "company", simply based on what you saw as value for the money.
Remember that they tried to pass themselves off as licensor of the Commodore IP:

Quote
Altman was then contacted by Taco van Sambeek, who represents the Netherlands-based Commodore Gaming, a company founded in 2005 with the intention of "re-launching the classic Commodore 64 experience on various platforms."

 Altman and van Sambeek both tell us they attempted to negotiate a deal that would license the Commodore name to Altman's Commodore USA. But although Altman seemed to indicate he had secured the rights last month, this was not the case.

 Commodore Gaming doesn't actually own the rights. It has merely licensed the right to use the name for gaming ventures, and though the company apparently has the power to pass a similar right to a third party, it can't license the name for more general purposes.


Note to those unaware: They are defunct.

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 19, 2012, 03:54:50 PM
Quote from: Kalvan;689565
Okay, Hyperion is threatening to sue if Commodore USA uses an Amiga OS alike. They can either use MorphOS or AROS with Natami and call Hyperion's bluff (And it absolutely is a bluff; by now all patents on AmigaOS Calls have expired, and documentation on any hypothetically copyright infringing code is trivially simple to verify or disporve) or they can build the computer Jay Miner would have built if he were around today, and without even looking at anything at Intel.



This has nothing to do with patent. It has to do with a settlement agreement between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion VOF (now a CVBA).
And although it is called a "settlement agreement", it is actually a "stipulated judgment", which you can research on Justia:
http://www.justia.com/dictionary/stipulated-judgment.html

Quote
Once the stipulated judgment is signed by the judge, it becomes the judgment in your case.

So, any conjecture about why not change the settlement agreement is just nonsense.

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: number6;689591
Let's be careful about heaping any praise upon Commodore Gaming as a "company", simply based on what you saw as value for the money.
Remember that they tried to pass themselves off as licensor of the Commodore IP:

Note to those unaware: They are defunct.

#6


Thanks for that info.  Very interesting.  It seems the industry is crawling with opportunists.  Mind you, for what C-USA wants, C-Gaming might have been within their rights to sub-license to them.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 19, 2012, 04:09:36 PM
Quote from: Kronos;689579
C= went to Tulip,



Not really.

some interesting history and links (http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28292&forum=17)

One day the real history of this reported "sale" may become public. Let's just say neither of the participants had the best motives at heart. Heh.

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 19, 2012, 04:20:46 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689594
Thanks for that info.  Very interesting.  It seems the industry is crawling with opportunists.  Mind you, for what C-USA wants, C-Gaming might have been within their rights to sub-license to them.



No idea, but it was a moot point, since Ben van Wijhe (Asiarim) raised it's head at that point, and the rest of the licensing story between Asiarim and CUSA is history.
Now the case to determine the true licensor is in the courts, hopefully for the last time.

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 04:22:52 PM
Quote from: number6;689598
No idea, but it was a moot point, since Ben van Wijhe (Asiarim) raised it's head at that point, and the rest of the licensing story between Asiarim and CUSA is history.
Now the case to determine the true licensor is in the courts, hopefully for the last time.

#6


Ask them to sort out who owns the Amiga ROMs and WB3.1 while they're at it.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kronos on April 19, 2012, 04:29:01 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689600
Ask them to sort out who owns the Amiga ROMs and WB3.1 while they're at it.  :D


VillageTronic !!! (which might actually be true .....)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 04:46:26 PM
Quote from: Kronos;689601
VillageTronic !!! (which might actually be true .....)


LOL.  If only.

Is this the same company?
http://www.villagetronic.com/
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: motrucker on April 19, 2012, 05:06:50 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689521
I really have to wonder if people are reading the same interview I was reading.
Commodore USA is currently a small company, with limited resources, and with limits to Amiga IP usage. We are doing the best, with the IP we have available to us, as we possibly can.
It's all fine to sit there and say, oh, ......

If CUSA was developing ANYTHING  this would be a different story. You are doing exactly the same thing IBUYPOWER is doing: assembling Intel/AMD  type computers -   but charging three to four times as much. I should add that IBUYPOWER is honest about assembling their computers from other firms parts, and doesn't charge much for their computers.
The only real difference I see, is that CUSA is dragging the Amiga name through the mud.
It's a shame, but Barry doesn't have a clue what the Amiga computer was about. The original Amiga was an innovative NEW machine for truly creative people. CUSA's abomination is nothing new. It's just another PC assembled from other manufacturers parts. No innovation, nothing new and, nothing remotely Amiga like about them.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 19, 2012, 06:11:54 PM
You can pretend to be a big player along the lines of Commodore, Dell, Atari, Apple etc.

You can pretend to be a tiny cottage industry.

But you don't get to be both.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 19, 2012, 06:32:17 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689521
I really have to wonder if people are reading the same interview I was reading.
Commodore USA is currently a small company, with limited resources, and with limits to Amiga IP usage. We are doing the best, with the IP we have available to us, as we possibly can.
It's all fine to sit there and say, oh, I woulda done this I woulda done that.
We have to be rational about our business right now so as to avoid potential money pits. We're in it for the long haul.
We would love to do all the various things the community want, but we quite simply can't at the moment for various reasons both legal and financial.
But be assured that it isn't because we have no interest in doing so.
If we had the kind of money that would allow us to take such risks, and tackle such projects, then of course we would.
Evidently we aren't reading the same interview you are - we're reading the interview linked at the top of the thread, wherein Barry states multiple times over that CUSA won't be supporting NG Amiga-like OSes, won't be supporting further development of Amiga emulation for Linux or any kind of integration into the OS, won't be supporting projects like NatAmi or PPC boards, and says, and I quote:
Quote
AMIGA can mean many things to many people, and not many can agree on what it is, but as long as you are convinced that AMIGA is a certain narrow set of hardware and software rather than a concept as we do, there can be no convincing you of the merits of our activities. You have to let go to take off.
He isn't interested in doing anything we're interested in (even where he isn't legally barred from doing so,) and he thinks of the Amiga as some nebulous "concept" that means basically whatever he wants it to mean, and tells anybody who disagrees to shove off. This isn't a case of "just hang with us and it'll get better," as you've kept saying. Even if CUSA had money and connections, which it doesn't, Barry would have absolutely nothing to offer us. This is what I suspected for a long time; now he's confirmed it. What is there left to say?

Quote
We had the good fortune to be able to acquire usage of the trademarks, and there's no point sitting on them and doing nothing with them just because it isn't 100% what we wanted from day one. That gets you nowhere and Rome was not built in a day.
No, and Rome wasn't built with a sign saying "Carthage" out front and charging twice as much in tax as its priciest neighbors, either.

Quote
We actually WANT to do all the cool things the community want us to do because we also believe it to be quite interesting, and in many ways align with our ultimate strategy.
As others have said, do you even talk to Barry? Because he's said quite explicitly that, as a company, you don't want that.

Quote
I quite honestly believe you should pray for our success, not our failure, because we want to be the catalyst that re-unites all facets of the Amiga IP, and ultimately create the kind of high tech computer and environment all Amiga fans would like to use and see further developed.
Pray for your success? Why? Any success in "[reuniting] all facets of the Amiga IP" you'd have, under the restrictions Barry's statements place on such a thing, would boil down to essentially what you're doing now: redefining "Amiga" to mean absolutely nothing, so that it can be applied willy-nilly to whatever overpriced, mediocre PC clones you feel like shipping out. I don't want that to succeed. I want it to fail, hard, because (and here's what Barry doesn't get, no matter how many times we explain it) "Amiga" is an actual thing, with actual properties that endear it to actual people, not just a nebulous "concept" of "so-and-so horsepower and oh, it makes nice pictures and sounds too, and probably does the Internet." I want to see new Amiga projects that embody some of the aspects that made the Amiga great. Yours do nothing of the sort. Therefore, your success in this venture is the last thing I want.

Quote
You feel a sting right now, I know, but I believe it will all work out for the best in the end.
"Just keep quiet and don't struggle, and we'll be done with you soon."
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: desiv on April 19, 2012, 07:04:49 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;689624
I want it to fail, hard, because (and here's what Barry doesn't get, no matter how many times we explain it) "Amiga" is an actual thing, with actual properties that endear it to actual people, not just a nebulous "concept" of "so-and-so horsepower and oh, it makes nice pictures and sounds too, and probably does the Internet."

Ah, but that is one of the core problems....

Quote
"Amiga" is an actual thing
Is it?

Personally, I agree with you..  To me, "Amiga" is an actual thing...

To some, OS4 is Amiga.
To some AROS is Amiga.
To some, MorphOS is Amiga.
To some, Minimig, FPGA Arcade, Natami, X1000 are / will be Amiga..

Now, Barry is taking even farther than that..  But it's the same concept...

I disagree with him about it...  I won't buy his products.  
But I don't want him to fail, just because I disagree with him...

To me, "Amiga" is an actual thing...  
And nothing he (or anyone) could do, would change that..

He could sell a billion Amiga minis, which would become sentient and take over the world.  Killing billions of people, before finally being defeated by Will Smith and a group of plucky misfits...

That still wouldn't hurt the Amiga for me; because it's not an Amiga, not matter what he calls it..  Not to me..

desiv
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 19, 2012, 07:24:58 PM
Not at all. We each have our own opinions about what's important about the Amiga and how the various projects you mentioned compare, but all of them do have aspects in common with the original Amiga. Not everything, of course, but many things. CUSA's products have nothing whatsoever in common with the Amiga. I'll admit dissent on the question of what's important about the Amiga (hardware? Software? Both?) but I will not accept the notion that you can just slap a sticker on a Linux PC and claim that's the same thing. That's the same as saying there's nothing important about the Amiga, and if that's true, they sure as hell don't need to be exploiting it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Jpan1 on April 19, 2012, 07:32:19 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;689624
"Amiga" is an actual thing, with actual properties that endear it to actual people, not just a nebulous "concept" of "so-and-so horsepower and oh, it makes nice pictures and sounds too, and probably does the Internet."


I like it, I like all the threads from people who regard the Amiga as some'thing' a bit more than just another computer - We all know that this product had such the following as it did because it went beyond other computers... Because of a unique experience based on a unique product...And therefore I don't see how 'revamping' the Amiga name under the guise of a high-spec end PC clone will change anything for the end user, in a time when computers are in copious demand. And that's the point, if the new Amiga offered something a bit different than modern computers, then I'm sure it would be well-received. But then Again, lots of investments and risks would have to be taken in development.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 19, 2012, 07:33:26 PM
This is all sort of hypothetical, because even if they wanted to, CUSA has no development team of any sort.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 07:41:57 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689521
Commodore USA is currently a small company, with limited resources,


Ladies and gentlemen, finally THE TRUTH!  :D

So, no major factories in China (or Germany) so regardless of who took the famous photographs you all knew that you were lying to us.

No stacks of motherboards waiting to be shipped to your facilities in Florida for assembly.

No sales of 100,000s of units to highstreet stores.

No boxes of assembled computers, just empty boxes.

No "partnership" with Disney beyond buying advertising on a DVD.

No $30m advertising budget.

No 100,000s of orders.

No "new" Operating System.

No designers working on custom cases.

Lies, lies and more lies.

In hindsight, don't you think it would have been a lot easier to just state the truth?  Are you actually capable of stating the truth?  Considering the pack of lies (confirmed by you), should we believe any of those answers or any answers in the future?

Fancy telling us what Dammy's official position is within C-USA?  How about "Middleman"?  Home many people on the C-USA site have you asked to come here and post something positive?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Jpan1 on April 19, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
Quote from: runequester;689638
This is all sort of hypothetical, because even if they wanted to, CUSA has no development team of any sort.


So in that case they should have got one, or leave out the whole 'Amiga' thing and just find another name for their product.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 07:44:04 PM
Quote from: runequester;689638
This is all sort of hypothetical, because even if they wanted to, CUSA has no development team of any sort.


It does make you wonder who produced the design for the C64x and if he actually got paid.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 07:45:00 PM
Quote from: Jpan1;689642
So in that case they should have got one, or leave out the whole 'Amiga' thing and just find another name for their product.


Why stick an "Amiga" sticker on a x86 computer running Linux?  It makes no sense now and never did.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Jpan1 on April 19, 2012, 07:55:32 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689646
Why stick an "Amiga" sticker on a x86 computer running Linux?  It makes no sense now and never did.


To capitalize from Nostalgia. In the interview, there is no doubt that nostalgia is running the show, but if people want nostalgia, they may as well get the old Amiga.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 08:13:46 PM
Quote from: Jpan1;689647
To capitalize from Nostalgia. In the interview, there is no doubt that nostalgia is running the show, but if people want nostalgia, they may as well get the old Amiga.


Exactly.  That that's the issue they face.  It should have been obvious to them.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 19, 2012, 08:16:26 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689646
Why stick an "Amiga" sticker on a x86 computer running Linux?  It makes no sense now and never did.

I might be tarred and feathered but here's how I'd have done it:

Develop a case that looks like either an A1200 or A1000 case (or a 2000 or whatever. Something iconic looking)

Develop a nice, high quality keyboard to go with it (no cheap boing balls here), complete with proper "amiga" keys and branding.

Develop a proper amiga mouse. I dont know if there'd be a future for a USB "tank mouse". I'd buy one but maybe I'd be the only one.

Develop a desktop environment for linux that actually feels amiga. AmiWM is not enough but it could developed more, or something could be done from scratch.


Be upfront with what it is going to be, and voila. Don't pretend to be the second coming of Commodore. You're selling a novelty case, keyboard etc, and it's a nice, consistent package.

Of course, this requires investment and money but if you were a hugely successfull business man, no problem!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 08:31:45 PM
Quote from: runequester;689650
I might be tarred and feathered but here's how I'd have done it:

Develop a case that looks like either an A1200 or A1000 case (or a 2000 or whatever. Something iconic looking)

Develop a nice, high quality keyboard to go with it (no cheap boing balls here), complete with proper "amiga" keys and branding.

Develop a proper amiga mouse. I dont know if there'd be a future for a USB "tank mouse". I'd buy one but maybe I'd be the only one.

Develop a desktop environment for linux that actually feels amiga. AmiWM is not enough but it could developed more, or something could be done from scratch.


Be upfront with what it is going to be, and voila. Don't pretend to be the second coming of Commodore. You're selling a novelty case, keyboard etc, and it's a nice, consistent package.

Of course, this requires investment and money but if you were a hugely successfull business man, no problem!


See, I'd have done all of those things, added the old C64 graphics to the keys too, preloaded a bunch of old emulators and sold it as a "Commodore Retro 1000" or something.  Still no need to call it an Amiga.  :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 19, 2012, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689654
See, I'd have done all of those things, added the old C64 graphics to the keys too, preloaded a bunch of old emulators and sold it as a "Commodore Retro 1000" or something.  Still no need to call it an Amiga.  :)


Right, that's the thing. Don't call it something it isn't, and don't try to pretend you are something you aren't.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: SysAdmin on April 19, 2012, 08:44:17 PM
So the solution is an easy one then. CUSA restarts Amithlon?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: desiv on April 19, 2012, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: Transition;689658
So the solution is an easy one then. CUSA restarts Amithlon?

They won't, but I like that idea..
Haven't used it yet, but the more I see/read about it, the more impressed I am.
And the more I'm disappointed about the way it fell apart..

Would it be an Amiga??
Who knows, but it would interest me....

I don't see it happening tho..

desiv
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 09:04:40 PM
Quote from: Transition;689658
So the solution is an easy one then. CUSA restarts Amithlon?


Yep, that would have worked a treat.  Amithlon, Bernielon, AmigaXL...  The major stumbling block seems to be them having to pay someone to do some work.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: EDanaII on April 19, 2012, 09:07:30 PM
You know... that one of the things that puzzles me... why hasn't anyone started an open source version of Amithlon. I always thought of Amithlon as the way forward to x86. You have instant compatibility with old software and the means to convert everything to x86 over time. If only I had a clue how to do it...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 19, 2012, 09:08:52 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689646
Why stick an "Amiga" sticker on a x86 computer running Linux?  It makes no sense now and never did.


To a business it makes sense (profit selling PCs with Amiga stickers - cost of licensing brand name).

What nobody here appreciates is the lies! Raping the Amiga brand is all C=USA will be doing until they go bankrupt with overpriced tat.

As for the 500 pre-sold finance [held in Escrow] well look I know companies that could recreate boxes/poly inserts/plastic case designs so if people even want that and will pay a deposit you just let me know fellow Amigans ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 19, 2012, 09:11:15 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;689664
You know... that one of the things that puzzles me... why hasn't anyone started an open source version of Amithlon. I always thought of Amithlon as the way forward to x86. You have instant compatibility with old software and the means to convert everything to x86 over time. If only I had a clue how to do it...


I guess very few people know both Amiga and x86 Linux in such detail required to replicate Bernie's work in full.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 19, 2012, 09:35:40 PM
Quote from: Darrin;689663
Yep, that would have worked a treat.  Amithlon, Bernielon, AmigaXL...  The major stumbling block seems to be them having to pay someone to do some work.



The major stumbling block would be running headlong into the AI/Hyperion settlement agreement once again.

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 19, 2012, 09:46:30 PM
Quote from: number6;689673
The major stumbling block would be running headlong into the AI/Hyperion settlement agreement once again.

#6


Which leaves selling "Commodore" branded x86 boxes pre-installed with Linux and/or Windows and then selling Amithlon as additional software for their online shop for the user to install as an option.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 19, 2012, 10:21:48 PM
Quote from: number6;689673
The major stumbling block would be running headlong into the AI/Hyperion settlement agreement once again.

#6


Not if you make some agreement / partnership with Hyperion that allows you to do so. So its not Hyperion that is "evil" but CUSA that knows or dont knows (by first AROS announcement) the limits of ther licence, and anyway dont want to invest and develop, which leaves them to just what they offer, and that is mostly overpriced what we all already have or can have (x86 with Linux and AF)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 19, 2012, 10:27:58 PM
Quote from: vox;689692
Not if you make some agreement / partnership with Hyperion that allows you to do so. So its not Hyperion that is "evil" but CUSA that knows or dont knows (by first AROS announcement) the limits of ther licence, and anyway dont want to invest and develop, which leaves them to just what they offer, and that is mostly overpriced what we all already have or can have (x86 with Linux and AF)



You might want to read how Bernie describes the situation

in his own words (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=689691&postcount=27)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 19, 2012, 11:17:25 PM
If Hyperion were involved with Amithlon resurrection I would not purchase it. It is 100% their fault Amithlon died and why Bernie will never release source or update it ever IMO.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 19, 2012, 11:18:48 PM
Quote from: number6;689695
You might want to read how Bernie describes the situation

in his own words (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=689691&postcount=27)


You might want to Google the interview he did just after Amithlon was removed from market.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: haywirepc on April 20, 2012, 12:52:11 AM
Amithlon held such great promise. The amiga grave robbers killled it.

Its a shame... But you can't blame bernie, he had good intentions, nore can you expect him to pick up old code. It can't be open sourced unless os3.x is open sourced. Thats never going to happen and without that, it can't really move forward. So its stuck in amiga limbo like many great amiga might have beens.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Methuselas on April 20, 2012, 01:19:04 AM
Quote from: EDanaII;689664
You know... that one of the things that puzzles me... why hasn't anyone started an open source version of Amithlon. I always thought of Amithlon as the way forward to x86. You have instant compatibility with old software and the means to convert everything to x86 over time. If only I had a clue how to do it...



A *LOT* of the work Bernie did, including the "on the fly" ELF modules that made Amithlon  what it is, is closed sourced. Add in what H&P did to him, as well as Harald Frank, he's disgusted completely with Amigas and really wants nothing to do with them anymore.

Granted, this is off stuff from the dev groups and boards, from the 2001-2003 era. If they actually *PAID* him, he *MIGHT* do it, but I'm sure Hyperion would try and crush it, the moment they found out about it. The fallout with H&P is the fact he asked about ROM licenses, as well as one for 3.9, which they claimed they had, but in reality, never acquired from Amiga, Inc., hence all the turmoil.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: kedawa on April 20, 2012, 02:43:46 AM
I wonder if CUSA customers would be interested in a DeLorean mini van, or maybe a Stradivarius guitar.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: wrath of khan on April 20, 2012, 04:44:35 AM
Quote from: kedawa;689741
I wonder if CUSA customers would be interested in a DeLorean mini van, or maybe a Stradivarius guitar.

Cusa=Back to the pucture! a retro mindpuck down memory lane.(Change the P in 'pucture' to an F and the P in 'mindpuck' to an F)Forum blocks swearwords oddly enough.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 21, 2012, 12:16:53 AM
Quote from: Darrin;689663
Yep, that would have worked a treat.  Amithlon, Bernielon, AmigaXL...  The major stumbling block seems to be them having to pay someone to do some work.


But they have been able to create few paradoxes

Quote
All Commodore and Amiga computers fully support Ubuntu and Windows operating systems.

Quote
all VIC, Commodore 64 and Commodore Amiga computers run CommodoreOS with Amiga Forever
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: BigBenAussie on April 21, 2012, 08:40:04 AM
@Darrin
Quote
Which leaves selling "Commodore" branded x86 boxes pre-installed with Linux and/or Windows and then selling Amithlon as additional software for their online shop for the user to install as an option.
Don't you understand that Commodore USA "most likely" can't sell or even give it away from free WITH or WITHOUT one of our machines.
Dissemination is the issue within the settlement.

Quote
all VIC, Commodore 64 and Commodore Amiga computers run CommodoreOS with Amiga Forever
I don't recall Commodore USA ever claiming that. There is a script in Commodore OS to rip ROMs and games from AmigaForever, which you would have purchased from Cloanto.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 21, 2012, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689947
@Darrin

I don't recall Commodore USA ever claiming that. There is a script in Commodore OS to rip ROMs and games from AmigaForever, which you would have purchased from Cloanto.

So Amiga Forever is delivered with Amiga (Mini) only or it will wait for 20 000$ systems? Gladly have already AF 2012 :-)

The point was other. Paradox is even the VIC, C64 and Amiga lines should mimic the difference in power of old home computers being CUSA low, mid and high end series, back in the days major difference was in real hardware differences and different series of software. Now its gone since all your computers do run same Linux with major feeling quite the same and some differences in performance but since you picked Linux, even the low end machine should be able to run it quite nicely and real performance difference would be seen in pro apps, that mostly don`t exist for Linux. Another simple paradox.

Likewise running joke on not saying C=USA computers can run Windows and comes with CommodoreOS Linux is that, in relation to this community saying that all VIC, Commodore and Amiga computers can run Windows is a nonsense.

That is what you get (paradoxes) when you abuse retro name.

Off course no one will try to insert Windows or CommodoreOS to an old VIC, real C64 or Amiga, but sounds like a good joke.

For example, you can`t say we don`t own Commodore, VIC and Amiga machines, and yet we are deprived
of ability to run Windows and CommodoreOS that you so boldly claim on your website.

Someone must be pretending :-)

Also, the sentence
Quote
All Commodore and Amiga computers fully support Ubuntu and Windows operating systems.
is also IT illiterate: The OS supports your hardware, or your provide drivers as support to the OS, and computers don`t support OS`s.

Quote
Don't you understand that Commodore USA "most likely" can't sell or even give it away from free WITH or WITHOUT one of our machines.
Dissemination is the issue within the settlement.

Quote
I have never had any conversation with either of
them, although there are still possibilities for collaboration, but it is not
for me to discuss these matters publicly.

AS much as I understand you never tried negotiating licence with Hyperion to have legal permission to do so. This kind of legal restrain
was part of the incomplete licence you got from Amiga Inc, so if you had general desire to do so, contacting Hyperion would come natural.
Before pretending to have "AmigaOS instead of AmigaOS" named "Workbench V". That is how you loose possibilities to create contacts, negative campaigns will always backfire.

Its more realistic to say your are not interested, or you don`t find it commercially viable, like Baron says, but add`s few high kicks to it.

Do you work as CTO from Aussieland via Internet or you do visit the Florida HQ?

Quote
Does Mint send money to Ubuntu? No.

No, but Mint doesn`t make money on Ubuntu.

Do you intend of creating partnership with Linux Mint to provide updates to your OS? People are letting you do the rename,
and just wish to have stable contact. Since you are bundling their product, it would be good idea to create product support
from them as well as update and maintance, and support their development (as it is your own) since you do make money
on their product. And having millions of possible combinations coming from small OEM rebranders as licencees, drivers will also
become an issue as well as troubleshooting.

OK, you don`t want to support AROS as charity, but will you support Linux you have chosen?

Since there is a PowerPC Mint what do you think of CommodoreOS minimal install (as not all x86 apps are ported to PowerPC)
that would support AmigaOne X1000, SAM 460, SAM 440, PegII and MacMini? Are you interested in providing or even
selling cheap but strong Linux distro for Amiga PowerPC systems?

Quote
Ask yourself how we can possibly be responsible for the hardware that
independent system vendors place within these barebones units or the
quality of their assembly. If we hear they are selling substandard
equipment, or in any way causing harm to consumers or the brands,
we will no longer fulfil their barebones orders.

This is weakest point of the idea to have free worldwide distribution and wider range of choices (as well as lower prices).
there is no real quality control and issues will arise. Also, limits are imposed by chosen Linux distro and distributors
that don`t have enough Linux knowledge. Many problems can arise, and complying to customer report (assuming
he knows where to report) will not reduce damage already done.

Quote
Incidentally Commodore OS has a Dopus Megellan clone pre-installed
as standard already. Ironic, that we already have it, and a much more
refined version at that.

What is the Dopus Magellan clone we aren`t aware of?
Having any file manager isn`t a Dopus Magellan clone.

Quote
Yes, it’s called Windows, you may have heard of it.

Please take PR and get rid of such stupid sentences that are supposed either to laugh
or educate us. No, we haven`t heard of it, it must be new Commodore product.

Quote
I do believe however that the most vocal
critics are just spiteful of our success, to the point of their vitriol
reaching a level of absurdity.;

Do you really believe its just envy and not common sense in seeing many mistakes
CommodoreUSA has done down the road? What success, in buying Amiga Inc licence and website?

Quote
It must be also realised that the majority of Amiga owners were solely
games players, using their Amigas in a similar fashion to consoles, and
while they may have used the machines for some other purposes now
and then, do not have any particular allegiance to the operating
system or chips in the machine, but loved the brand just the same.

They loved gaming experience on it provided by hardware and at least
knew there is special hardware in it and OS that is better then Windows 3.11
(everyone booted WB). However, it was not the games but productivity apps
that have made Amiga name as serious creativity macine. Games were just up
to the console and arcade experience. If Amiga was only associated with games,
why your machines aren`t consoles or don`t come with joysticks and few games?

Quote
I went on to estimate that various configurations of such a
machine could cost as much as $25,000. Obviously, such collaboration
has not yet occurred, nor will we produce a mainstream Commodore
Amiga machine that would cost anywhere near that amount. To think
so is crazy, but yet again, what I have said has been taken out of
context and applied to the propaganda purposes of a small yet vocal
minority.

So now there never was a promise of 25 000$ Amigas. It is taken out of
context for propaganda. Good to know. Admitting mistakes would be nicer,
that you estimated such high league sales might even worsen.

So you as CTO claim this was also only our imagination?

Denial seems to be Barry`s strongest defense mechanism.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 21, 2012, 11:21:17 AM
@VOX

Quote
OK, you don`t want to support AROS as charity, but will you support Linux you have chosen?

it is clearly cusa dont want to give any money to linux mint either. they choose it because it was free, for them to exploit and use as they wanted. so they could sell it with their 20 000$ systems. it is as simple as that, you can forget support cusa aint running a charity after all. barry only want to fill his pockets with cash and there ends his interests in anything amiga to, he have made that perfectly clear in this q&a.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 21, 2012, 11:30:59 AM
Quote from: A1260;689953
@VOX

it is clearly cusa dont want to give any money to linux mint either. they choose it because it was free, for them to exploit and use as they wanted. so they could sell it with their 20 000$ systems. it is as simple as that, you can forget support cusa aint running a charity after all. barry only want to fill his pockets with cash and there ends his interests in anything amiga to, he have made that perfectly clear in this q&a.


Agreed, "play new, use free". But on worldwide conquest, you need to support what you claim is your own OS, and what when you are unable to do so?

Leaving users without software and hardware support is again not only immoral but breaking the customer protection laws anywhere in civilized world.

Never seen someone who doesn`t want to invest, but only to gain.
Top rankin`
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yXBWxpaEHM
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 21, 2012, 12:16:38 PM
Off topic. Amiga.org just crashed. Here's what came up if anyones interested:


                                           AmigaORG                                            
                      
                      
                                                                                  
                      1/500.Amiga.org:C>why The last command failed because : *shrug* Click here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../) to return to the main index. 1/0.Amiga.org:C>info Mounted disks: Unit       Size     Used     Free Full Errs   Status   Name RAM:        16K       16        0 100%   0  Read/Write Ram Disk AORG0:       4G      276  4194028   0%   0  Read/Write Amiga.org (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../) AORG1:       4G      276  4194028   0%   0  Read/Write Forums (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../forums) AORG2:       4G      276  4194028   0%   0  Read/Write Gallery (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../gallery) AORG3:       4G      276  4194028   0%   0  Read/Write Links (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../links) AORG4:       4G      276  4194028   0%   0  Read/Write New Posts (http://www.amiga.org/forums/search.php?do=getdaily)  Volumes available: Amiga.org (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../) [Mounted] Forums (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../forums) [Mounted] Gallery (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../gallery) [Mounted] Links (http://www.amiga.org/forums/../links) [Mounted] New Posts (http://www.amiga.org/forums/search.php?do=getdaily) [Mounted] 1/0.Amiga.org:C>
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 21, 2012, 12:17:53 PM
Quote from: vox;689954
Leaving users without software and hardware support is again not only immoral but breaking the customer protection laws anywhere in civilized world.



but then again barry can just say 'install windows if you don't like our commodoreos' and he is free of any responsibility...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 21, 2012, 01:44:04 PM
Quote from: vox;689954
Leaving users without software and hardware support is again not only immoral but breaking the customer protection laws anywhere in civilized world.

Then you should be glad to be told you are wrong.  Tech support is given for hardware and COS.  I've been in the office when a C=USA customer calls up and is walked through a resolution of his tech problem.  Leo is online and answers many a COS or tech question from emails and on commodore-amiga.org posts.

Now will you admit your wrong?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 21, 2012, 04:09:12 PM
No Amiga Forever included? How can the Amiga Mini even be called an Amiga if it gives no provision to run Amiga software even emulated out of the box.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 21, 2012, 04:24:34 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;689947
@Darrin

Don't you understand that Commodore USA "most likely" can't sell or even give it away from free WITH or WITHOUT one of our machines.
Dissemination is the issue within the settlement.


Time to stop abusing the Amiga name then and stick to selling Linux PCs.

How much of your own money have you "invested" in this?  I'd bail out now if I was you.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 21, 2012, 04:26:22 PM
Quote from: dammy;689962
Then you should be glad to be told you are wrong.  Tech support is given for hardware and COS.  I've been in the office when a C=USA customer calls up and is walked through a resolution of his tech problem.  Leo is online and answers many a COS or tech question from emails and on commodore-amiga.org posts.

Now will you admit your wrong?


Someone answering the phone when they happen to be in the office isn't "24 hour technical support".

The CTO should be the Tech Support guy either.  I guess it was either Leo or Barry.

Strange how you spend so much time in their office for a non-employee...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 21, 2012, 04:29:30 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;689969
No Amiga Forever included? How can the Amiga Mini even be called an Amiga if it gives no provision to run Amiga software even emulated out of the box.


That's anew isn't it?  It has always been "suggested" that the full version of Mint (sorry, I mean COS) was fully licenced and contained everything you need to legally run the emulators.  Now we discover that it is no better than downloading UAE off the internet.

Of course C-USA can state that they never promised anything different and this was their plan all along because they use "non-employees" to make "unofficial statements" which sound like "official statements" so that there is no legal comeback.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 21, 2012, 04:47:50 PM
It doesn't even included the Value Edition of Amiga Forever? Now that's what I call being cheap!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 21, 2012, 04:50:18 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;689978
It doesn't even included the Value Edition of Amiga Forever? Now that's what I call being cheap!


It must be due to their tight profit margins based on their extremely low mark-ups.  There's no spare cash.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 21, 2012, 04:58:35 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;689978
It doesn't even included the Value Edition of Amiga Forever? Now that's what I call being cheap!

barry just found winuae on the internet and stuffed it in there with the mint linux, then rip the roms. i doubt he have any license at all to use it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 21, 2012, 05:53:45 PM
Quote from: dammy;689962
Then you should be glad to be told you are wrong.  Tech support is given for hardware and COS.  I've been in the office when a C=USA customer calls up and is walked through a resolution of his tech problem.  Leo is online and answers many a COS or tech question from emails and on commodore-amiga.org posts.

Now will you admit your wrong?

First day CUSA admits some mistakes and call them not trivial.
Now using Barry tactics, I might be wrong for not knowing what you have seen, but it doesn`t matter anyway
because I have a licence to vox name.

Barry said in interview its all up to licencee. Even the software part "because Microsoft also does the same". Its good there is a Leo from Australia pretending to be support, since he is litterate and Barry to chat on the phone.
But again, there is more serious ways to setup the business.

And software support is updates and drivers. Without Linux mint team and with millions of possible driver combinations ...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 21, 2012, 08:14:18 PM
Quote from: vox;689986
First day CUSA admits some mistakes and call them not trivial.
 
.....
 
And software support is updates and drivers. Without Linux mint team and with millions of possible driver combinations ...

He admits to making mistakes in his answers. Trivialising and overblowing are subjective, he hasn't killer or injured anyone that I know of so anything he has done sounds pretty trivial to me.
 
It seems you want CUSA to be able to offer the same support as Microsoft. Even Apple and Linux don't have very good driver support in comparison.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: _ThEcRoW on April 21, 2012, 09:32:41 PM
Amazing the people who is analyzing with magnifying glass every comment. Seriously, get a life...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 21, 2012, 10:02:38 PM
Quote from: vox;689986
First day CUSA admits some mistakes and call them not trivial.
Now using Barry tactics, I might be wrong for not knowing what you have seen, but it doesn`t matter anyway
because I have a licence to vox name.


Huh?

Quote
Barry said in interview its all up to licencee. Even the software part "because Microsoft also does the same". Its good there is a Leo from Australia pretending to be support, since he is litterate and Barry to chat on the phone.
But again, there is more serious ways to setup the business.

And software support is updates and drivers. Without Linux mint team and with millions of possible driver combinations ...


Correct, for those who buy a barebones system and install whatever CPU/Mobo/GPU/PSU they want, they are deal with the headaches.  It would not be reasonable if someone installs whatever hardware for C=USA to have to support it, as it needs to be the retailer since they are the ones who bought the hardware and have access to warranties.   As an example, let us say someone bought a new Commodore Amiga 1000X barebones model and sold it with a SAM460 installed in it.  No way C=USA is going to be able to give support, it would be the retailer who assembled it would be the one providing support.  You have a issue with this or is it just a convenient excuse to troll against C=USA?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 21, 2012, 10:27:58 PM
Quote from: dammy;690002
Correct, for those who buy a barebones system and install whatever CPU/Mobo/GPU/PSU they want, they are deal with the headaches.  It would not be reasonable if someone installs whatever hardware for C=USA to have to support it, as it needs to be the retailer since they are the ones who bought the hardware and have access to warranties.   As an example, let us say someone bought a new Commodore Amiga 1000X barebones model and sold it with a SAM460 installed in it.  No way C=USA is going to be able to give support, it would be the retailer who assembled it would be the one providing support.  You have a issue with this or is it just a convenient excuse to troll against C=USA?


You know perfectly well that those are not the people Vox is talking about.  Well done for avoiding the "support" issue.  Mind you, even when we do back you into a corner you'll simply give the standard "Don't know why you're asking me, I don't work for C-USA" reply as per your orders.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: tone007 on April 22, 2012, 01:50:40 AM
This CUSA stuff is so 2010 (or was it 2009?)  Let's move on to something more interesting.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 22, 2012, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: tone007;690017
This CUSA stuff is so 2010 (or was it 2009?)  Let's move on to something more interesting.

This.

Barry gave his answers, I'm sure we're all appreciative he cleared things up.

He also readily stated they are a PC vendor selling x86 Linux PC's that to even be remotely Amiga related, one must purchase a third party emulation package.  They are about as much of an Amiga as Dell is, unless you consider a case etching the true progenitor of the brand lineage.  

They simply are not relevant in the least anymore, this is Amiga.org.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 22, 2012, 02:05:12 AM
Quote from: tone007;690017
This CUSA stuff is so 2010 (or was it 2009?)  Let's move on to something more interesting.

Agreed. Any ideas?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 22, 2012, 02:20:14 AM
For a new topic, how about what everyone plans on doing with their FPGA Arcade systems?

I'm anxiously waiting on the daughtercard option so I can run my BBS on it ( need ethernet), even got a case for it already, the Antec Skeleton Mini case.

(http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/assets/613x412m/products/4dcc45e9d02ac1b27fe544687d823bac-0.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 22, 2012, 02:31:16 AM
Quote from: Duce;690023
For a new topic, how about what everyone plans on doing with their FPGA Arcade systems?

I'm anxiously waiting on the daughtercard option so I can run my BBS on it ( need ethernet), even got a case for it already, the Antec Skeleton Mini case.

(http://www.auspcmarket.com.au/assets/613x412m/products/4dcc45e9d02ac1b27fe544687d823bac-0.jpg)

About time. I am waiting for the NatAmi to be released. That is if they ever get around to providing some details about it such as price and progress in general. *Sighs*

After using MOS for about a year i want to go back to legacy. NG Amigas are boring. FPGA is the best option for me i think.

Tell me about that case. How much did it cost? What (good) flaws does it have?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 22, 2012, 04:20:28 AM
Quote from: Duce;690023
For a new topic, how about what everyone plans on doing with their FPGA Arcade systems?

I'm anxiously waiting on the daughtercard option so I can run my BBS on it ( need ethernet), even got a case for it already, the Antec Skeleton Mini case.


Now that's different!  :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 22, 2012, 11:29:31 AM
I like the case a lot, had my SAM in it for a bit.  Think I paid about $85 for it on sale at Newegg.

PROS:  size, real small.  Looks are real, real cool.  The open skeletal form of it is real neat visually.  Lightweight (a little over 5 pounds), and top mounted fan keeps things real cool.  Front IO panel connectors keep systems tidy and accessible, and the sliding mobo tray is nice.

CONS:  the same open nature of it that I find to be nice eye candy also can make the thing a dust collector - your components are literally quite out in the open, so I'll probably never put any actively cooled mobo in this.  Drive bays are somewhat limited, 1 5.25" and 4 2.5".  Half height expansion slot and mitx mobo size requirements are a limiting factor to some.  Price can be considered a little steep for such a small case.

They do also make a full ATX version of the Skeleton case.  There are a lot more functional cases on the market, there's no doubt the primary goal of this one is visual impact.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 22, 2012, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690004
You know perfectly well that those are not the people Vox is talking about.  Well done for avoiding the "support" issue.  Mind you, even when we do back you into a corner you'll simply give the standard "Don't know why you're asking me, I don't work for C-USA" reply as per your orders.


Please, stop your whining already Darrin.  There is phone support and online forum support for C=USA products.   Funny, you don't like the answer I give, then you say I'm avoiding the question because it doesn't fit your template of bashing C=USA.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: _ThEcRoW on April 22, 2012, 02:00:32 PM
Wow, nice case!. Could be interesting for fitting in the fpga replay when i got it.
Do you have a bbs running duce?. Under what software?. Cool to know there is going to be a bbs running inside a replay board.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 22, 2012, 02:00:51 PM
Quote from: tone007;690017
This CUSA stuff is so 2010 (or was it 2009?)  Let's move on to something more interesting.


Feel free to stop posting in C=USA threads then if you find it so uninteresting.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: tone007 on April 22, 2012, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: dammy;690055
Feel free to stop posting in C=USA threads then if you find it so uninteresting.


[youtube]rH6b_lSQst0[/youtube]
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 22, 2012, 05:22:43 PM
I run Zeus BBS on a SAM 440.  The BBS software itself runs just fine on the PPC hardware/OS4, but the problem (and the reason I want the FPGA board) is that many older doors simply won't run well on the PPC machine :/

Working on porting DLG BB/OS to OS4 as well, and eventually to MorphOS perhaps.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: haywirepc on April 23, 2012, 11:01:31 AM
Whats the telnet address to the bbs?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: weirdami on April 24, 2012, 01:51:50 AM
Can I get the PDF in a handy pocket sized paperback version? I'm going on a long trip and I've already read War and Peace.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: motrucker on April 25, 2012, 03:42:14 AM
Quote from: dammy;690055
Feel free to stop posting in C=USA threads then if you find it so uninteresting.

You mean CUSA hasn't folded yet?!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: wrath of khan on April 25, 2012, 04:02:09 AM
Quote from: motrucker;690399
You mean CUSA hasn't folded yet?!
They fold more than Origami.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 25, 2012, 05:16:07 AM
Quote from: motrucker;690399
You mean CUSA hasn't folded yet?!


Nope.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: wrath of khan on April 25, 2012, 06:36:09 AM
I don't begrudge cusa if they want to make some money but I really wonder if selling pcs and calling them amigas will be a financial success. What makes their systems stand out from a regular pc.I don't see it as a long term business. Doing something interesting and mining some of the classic heritage and marrying it with modern components might be a better idea.Something that diffrentiates cusa systems from regular pc's is a must imo.As a side project even an amiga handheld similar to the megadrive/neo geo x like blaze make could concievably make some money in the retro market. There is alot of young people who missed the whole amiga games era. If certain concessions can be made to classic users when it doesn't cost cusa a dime then they should make those concessions as it gains nothing to alienate the amiga community either through accident or intention.Nostalgia aside I think success lies in some form of innovation much like the innovation inherent in the original amiga. I can't see cusa lasting very long with their current ethos.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 25, 2012, 01:32:01 PM
At some point they will hit the end of the faux retro market, but nobody know how deep that market is.  It's most certainly larger than the classic Amiga market, but all anyone can do is throw out numbers, a hundred thousand?  Half a million?  A million?  If it's on the million side they might go for years before hitting the wall.

The Commodore name is a dual edge sword.  For every one person that remembers it fondly there's at least another one or two that remember it as cheap plastic crap.

(http://cliptank.com/images/dogs/costume/border%20collie%20happy%20meal%20mcdonalds%20costume%20fries%20hamberger.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 25, 2012, 01:55:50 PM
Quote from: persia;690434
At some point they will hit the end of the faux retro market, but nobody know how deep that market is.  It's most certainly larger than the classic Amiga market, but all anyone can do is throw out numbers, a hundred thousand?  Half a million?  A million?  If it's on the million side they might go for years before hitting the wall.

The Commodore name is a dual edge sword.  For every one person that remembers it fondly there's at least another one or two that remember it as cheap plastic crap.


That is where you are wrong on two points.  One, this is not cheap plastic crap, they are pushing for reasonable quality hardware.  The other point your wrong on, there is much more then double digit number of C=USA haters online vs the world who remembers C='s name.  One of the biggest problems for the online C=USA hater's have is getting their head around, AO/AWN isn't the whole world nor a significant portion of the whole world.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kronos on April 25, 2012, 02:10:41 PM
Well I guess dammy is still not smelling the cheese ....


NotC=USA now admitted (long after there was anything to deny) that they never had that 30 million ad-budget and that it was just another barry-brain-f### (well technically that would require a brain ...).
Same goes for those major retailers stocking NotC=64s ....

Is the brand-sticker-market really bigger than real-retro ? I can see lots of Amigas and real C64s even without going to specific websites, while NotC=64-sightings aren down to 1 unboxing video on utube (what was posted by barry&co does not count).

Also the question never was wether the NotAmigaMini is high quality or not, but wether people will remember C= products as high-class or rather as "cheap plastic".

The NotAmigaMini seems more like the spec-monsters you see on sale at Aldi or Walmart, lots of GHZ plenty fancy stickers but in reality medicore components not working together forming a turd.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 25, 2012, 02:15:08 PM
It might be that the community is only a (very) small part of the world but most of the world outside does not remember amiga (and will not pay premium prices for the brand) or is remembering amiga but already uses computers (and will not pay premium for the brand either). As long as CUSA has nothing new and innovative to offer the brand is more or less worthless.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 25, 2012, 02:50:45 PM
Quote from: dammy;690435
That is where you are wrong on two points.  One, this is not cheap plastic crap, they are pushing for reasonable quality hardware.  The other point your wrong on, there is much more then double digit number of C=USA haters online vs the world who remembers C='s name.  One of the biggest problems for the online C=USA hater's have is getting their head around, AO/AWN isn't the whole world nor a significant portion of the whole world.


Probably the number of Commodore and Amiga names positive heritages outnumber their own faults. 30 000 likes on Facebook is result more of that, then of CommodoreUSA`s innovation. Quality of hardware as x86 has improved, even the pricing is high. Is such model sustainable, CUSA`s longlivity will prove. Surely, COS is improvement over self-install Ubuntu, but is still beta and support and updates are yet to be established.

I would be worried if most of people that lived as Amiga Community over last decade disliked not merely the products as much as lack of innovation and bad PR. Maybe some conclusions could be drawn from that. Surely, the world market is xyz times wider then Amiga community, but if strategy was better Amiga community would be first to count on as customers and loyal promoters. In community terms its also handful (two digits) that have accepted CUSA agenda as way forward. If this was the idea, it failed so far.

Of promises really made A1200 (or A500) case, AROS support and some form o of innovative OS (and most expensive "Amiga workstations") remain vapor as much as Elite 4. Leo has done some good PR and hope will get more independence and funds to live such projects. Paradoxically, with best wishes for that to happen, that depends on the sales of current VIC, C64x and Amiga Mini offer.

To deserve support at least as PC of our next choice, CUSA should come forward with some next gen idea, like Community project was supposed to.

Legally, and even in market behaviour, CUSA is a small bussiness we expected way too much from, but is continuation, licencee and financer (via double licence - licence sum and per machine fee all CUSA users repay) of Amiga Inc, an offshoot of Amiga Inc side of the court agreement. Small Amiga scene seems to be small but resiliant, and sometimes CUSA shortcomings make an Amiga promotion.

(http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy95/crawff_photos/IMAG0130.jpg)

Hope to hear we all learned some lessons and some improvements are possible. Then surely, even you can`t satisfy all the people all the time, your support from this kind of community would strengthen.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 25, 2012, 03:13:43 PM
@Dammy  I was speaking of the Commodore name, not anything that this new Commodore makes.  There are a fair number of people that remember the Commodore name as a producer of cheap plastic crap, whether you like it or not, because, in the end they did produce cheap plastic crap. The original Commodore had about an equal number of lovers and haters.  No company has ever achieved universal love.  Commodore marketed on price.  Low Price.

(http://cliptank.com/images/dogs/costume/at%20at%20dog.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 25, 2012, 04:00:56 PM
Find it amusing that the magazine clip Vox posted is scathingly critical of the "new Amiga" that C-USA are offering.  Hope C-USA isn't posting that article in their Media relations file, because the author of said article is just as critical of the Amiga Mini as anyone here is, if not worse.

The words C-USA and Innovation shouldn't be used in the same sentence in regards to this Mini.  I'll give credit where credit is due on the 64 series, that case had some merit to retro guys.  There was something new and unique there, but not on this one.

The Amiga Mini?  Components I can purchase off any store shelf.  A $40 case, some commodity PC components in it, and a rebadged version of Linux.  
Not even an emulator with ROM's.  Nada.  Zip.  Zilch.  A Linux PC.

I'll respect it for what it is, and that's a PC - but man am I sick of people heralding an Intel based PC running Linux as the "new Amiga that will save the Amiga name!" when there's absolutely nothing "Amiga" about it, nor is there anything innovative.  An Amiga decal on a Dell, same thing.  PC components in a PC case.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm far beyond getting cranky about people defiling the Amiga name - after
years of seeing people like McBill and others farm it out like a $5 prostitute, I'm not a big, ardent defender of "the name".  What does annoy the living hell out of me is otherwise bright, intelligent people heralding things as a "rebirth" or a "great new innovation", when the stark truth is:  it is a COMMODITY PC WITH A LOGO ON IT, RUNNING LINUX, AT 2x THE PRICE.

The Amiga Mini has about as much to do with the Amiga as a Dell with an Amiga decal stuck on it.  Period.  There isn't enough whitewash in the world to get past the fact they are charging a 2x markup for an Amiga etching on a $40 mini-itx case that has been discontinued.

If their products are what you are after, by all means, it's your money and I truly hope you enjoy your systems.  There are more reputable and far cheaper "boutique" brands out there, however - or you could build your own in about an hour at half the cost...

Once again, I implore you to support the "little guys".  The Natami crew, FPGA guys, the authors and vendors of emulator programs, MorphOS, AROS, and OS4 - which do actually bring something unique and niche to the table.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: BigBenAussie on April 25, 2012, 04:37:12 PM
@Vox. As Commodore USA is still a small company it is not currently possible to make everyone's (including ours) dream come true in regard to fulfilling various things the community wants that would denote more of the Amiga's heritage. This is regrettable, but unavoidable at the moment. We have stated the clear intention to do so. Barry even did so a few times in the interview. There have been various miss-steps of course, and all sorts of things were either promised prematurely or stated as plans in the euphoria of the moment of having secured usage of the trademarks. So what? Sometimes things don't go to plan. Stuff happens. But why that should in any way cause such consternation I have no idea. No one is forcing you to buy our products and nothing in your computing life has changed really. You just have another entity with the same goals as most of you, that can't do it all right now, but hopes to.

Incidentally, that magazine(?) article is incorrect. Amiga ROMs for game emulation are under our license from Amiga Inc. Because of this, after many months of discussions, we are still on the fence as to whether it is worth our while licensing Amiga Forever.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 05:09:05 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;690450
@Vox. As Commodore USA is still a small company it is not currently possible to make everyone's (including ours) dream come true in regard to fulfilling various things the community wants that would denote more of the Amiga's heritage. This is regrettable, but unavoidable at the moment. We have stated the clear intention to do so. Barry even did so a few times in the interview. There have been various miss-steps of course, and all sorts of things were either promised prematurely or stated as plans in the euphoria of the moment of having secured usage of the trademarks. So what? Sometimes things don't go to plan. Stuff happens. But why that should in any way cause such consternation I have no idea. No one is forcing you to buy our products and nothing in your computing life has changed really. You just have another entity with the same goals as most of you, that can't do it all right now, but hopes to.

Incidentally, that magazine(?) article is incorrect. Amiga ROMs for game emulation are under our license from Amiga Inc. Because of this, after many months of discussions, we are still on the fence as to whether it is worth our while licensing Amiga Forever.


Yeah, because paying $10 for the basic version of Amiga Forever is such a hard decision to make.  God help C-USA actually pay someone for their OS content.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: EDanaII on April 25, 2012, 05:19:50 PM
Funny, isn't it? They claim they'll do anything the community asks (AKA Community Challenge) and yet can't make a decision as simple as that...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 06:00:18 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;690455
Funny, isn't it? They claim they'll do anything the community asks (AKA Community Challenge) and yet can't make a decision as simple as that...


Decision making isn't their strong point.

According to Dammy, they had shipped thousands of C64x units while Leo was still trying to make a decision as to whether he should include a mouse in the box.

Strange one that.  It is kind of hard to put a mouse in the box AFTER the thousands of units had been shipped to the customers, but then what do we know.  :)

Did they ever actually include a mouse with the C64x or was the $5 cost too much?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 25, 2012, 06:39:37 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;690455
Funny, isn't it? They claim they'll do anything the community asks (AKA Community Challenge) and yet can't make a decision as simple as that...


Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 25, 2012, 06:56:26 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;690450
@Vox. There have been various miss-steps of course, and all sorts of things were either promised prematurely or stated as plans in the euphoria of the moment of having secured usage of the trademarks. So what? Sometimes things don't go to plan. Stuff happens. But why that should in any way cause such consternation I have no idea. No one is forcing you to buy our products and nothing in your computing life has changed really. You just have another entity with the same goals as most of you, that can't do it all right now, but hopes to.

Incidentally, that magazine(?) article is incorrect. Amiga ROMs for game emulation are under our license from Amiga Inc. Because of this, after many months of discussions, we are still on the fence as to whether it is worth our while licensing Amiga Forever.


Companies should conduct like adults, not like children. Consternation is caused by too many promises versus none community interesting solutions.

"So what" is true, but in sense there are no common goals as most of us,
and thus your products, announcements and changes shouldn`t be here at all.

Article is quite right, including the fact that currently your products ship with no Classic Amiga compatibility out of box, for reasons that are no interest of end user. In those terms Amiga Forever and AmigaOS 4 are more Amiga products.

It was supposed to be "Commodore Mint edition" Premium feature,
as well, and I do believe you have even announced a Partnership with Cloanto

Quote
Unique to MCE is a legal emulation of many Commodore and Amiga computers. We have included a number of licensed game ROMs through a partnership with Cloanto, including the C64 and Amiga Forever collection
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 25, 2012, 07:19:23 PM
Quote from: dammy;690459
Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.

OK, we aren`t worthwile of bother. Thanks.
There was product to be outlined by the last forum before the hack
and voting was ongoing. New page was poorely promoted and CUSA lost the moment,
if there was, to make something with the community.

Nothing was offered as idea of product to preorder
or support.

As far as I can understand Leo confirmed just the script that can rip off the AF.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 25, 2012, 07:26:16 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690454
Yeah, because paying $10 for the basic version of Amiga Forever is such a hard decision to make.  God help C-USA actually pay someone for their OS content.


If (big if) C=USA have Kickstart included in unit/volume licensing they don't need Amiga Forever legally.

However on the other hand they need to supply digital copies of the ROMs with each computer rather than hosting the existing piratey ROMs out there for downloads or condoning Google searches for unencrypted ROM downloads. This is the quagmire of legal emulation description however and why, as I understand it, Cloanto had to encrypt ROMs they supply so they could not be used by people with no right to use them with freely available [WIN]UAE and only licensed Amiga Forever.

Obviously not having UAE installed and configured on each machine sold is Ostrich head in the sand 'solution'
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 25, 2012, 07:27:31 PM
No Dammy, the Amiga Community couldn't get 500 people together to unite under the promise of a product from a company with absolutely no track record or credibility.  A company that for years has slandered and insulted said community, a company that brought in weird escrow terms and conditions like they were doing us some grand gift, a company that for the most part never "innovated" anything, yet with the drop of a hat, they are now an inventive company wanting to give us what we want - assuming we fork over the money, in advance.  Assuming what they would have delivered would have been anything more than poor quality chinese components with Amiga stickers.

Why would people, after reading horror stories of people having to rip apart their brand new C-USA Commodore 64's to install additional/better cooling, or watching them be told to add a laptop cooler to get the machines to run cool - want to have ANYTHING to do with any product they were innovating for the "Amiga Community?"

You have a very selective memory, and an even more selective view of what is reality and common sense.  If you cannot see why people were rightfully hesitant on that challenge to the community, you're living on a different planet than the rest of us.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 25, 2012, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: dammy;690459
Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.


Asking customers to design product scope & specification without an accurate description of technical solutions C=USA has the competency to design and build is NOT a viable business plan. Asking them to pay up front is also lunacy.

It is 100% down to C=USA to define their ability to legally, technically and financially be able to potential deliver the following....

1. C64x style bespoke identical replica Amiga case + keyboard + mouse
2. Ability to license existing/build new PPC motherboards with OS4 compatibility
3. Feasibility of x86 Amithlon+OS3.9 or AROS system being developed.

All I saw was a $500,000 attempted scam.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: tone007 on April 25, 2012, 08:00:10 PM
Quote from: dammy;690459
Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them


I bet the Amiga online community could very easily get 500 people together to tell C=USA to go to hell.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 25, 2012, 08:03:55 PM
Why are we bothering? No matter what's said CUSA aren't going to listen anyway. That much is blatantly obvious. I give up, do whatever you like CUSA. I doubt you'll ever do anything that I'll ever pay for because I doubt you will ever do anything that has the slightest connection to real Amigas. I can buy AF anytime or use UAE with my own ROMs. I can even make my own damn stickers to stick on my own PCs!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: wrath of khan on April 25, 2012, 08:22:09 PM
With 500 people putting money forward we could do something ourselves.
Make our own case for natami and for general use or fund any amiga project.
We just need some trustworthy members like the Daddy or such who could accomplish such a thing.It would be cool for us to just make it happen ourselves a bit like the openpandora project in some respects.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 25, 2012, 08:30:34 PM
Quote from: tone007;690470
I bet the Amiga online community could very easily get 500 people together to tell C=USA to go to hell.


Start the petition and tell me where to sign.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: koaftder on April 25, 2012, 08:59:37 PM
Quote from: Duce;690467
a company with absolutely no track record or credibility.  A company that for years has slandered and insulted said community, a company that brought in weird escrow terms and conditions like they were doing us some grand gift, a company that for the most part never "innovated" anything, yet with the drop of a hat, they are now an inventive company wanting to give us what we want - assuming we fork over the money, in advance.  


Hmmm, that sounds another company we know... :roflmao:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:04:51 PM
Quote from: vox;690460
and I do believe you have even announced a Partnership with Cloanto


Oooh!  Good catch!

Yes, the did announce such a "partnership" which is why everyone assumed that Amiga Forever was part of the package.

I wonder what happened to this deal.  Perhaps Cloanto backed out when the first cheque failed to clear (or even arrive).
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:08:28 PM
Quote from: dammy;690459
Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.


Funnt how C-USA couldn't answer any questions as to WHAT they actually could deliver, thus fragmenting the possible producted into as many options as possible.  In short, C-USA had no wish or ability to provide a product the community wanted and it was just a quick mind-game to silence us while you sold PCs with Amiga names on them.

The problem with these games you play is that people see striaght through them.  iWin were better poker players than you guys.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:12:55 PM
Quote from: Digiman;690466
If (big if) C=USA have Kickstart included in unit/volume licensing they don't need Amiga Forever legally.

However on the other hand they need to supply digital copies of the ROMs with each computer rather than hosting the existing piratey ROMs out there for downloads or condoning Google searches for unencrypted ROM downloads. This is the quagmire of legal emulation description however and why, as I understand it, Cloanto had to encrypt ROMs they supply so they could not be used by people with no right to use them with freely available [WIN]UAE and only licensed Amiga Forever.

Obviously not having UAE installed and configured on each machine sold is Ostrich head in the sand 'solution'


Very true, although as Vox (and C-USA) have said, they did announce that agreement.  Once again it was to try and add "value" to a product that has none.  :)

C-USA announce a "new" OS included in the price of their machines so people think they're also buying a $100 Operating System like Windows or MacOS.  Instead they get free Linux.

C-USA announce a partnership with Cloanto so people think they're getting a $30 software package included in the price.  The package silently vanishes.

Customers think they're getting "real" tech support.  Instead they play roulette and hope somebody happens to be near the telephone when they call.

The list goes on...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Digiman;690468
Asking customers to design product scope & specification without an accurate description of technical solutions C=USA has the competency to design and build is NOT a viable business plan. Asking them to pay up front is also lunacy.

It is 100% down to C=USA to define their ability to legally, technically and financially be able to potential deliver the following....

1. C64x style bespoke identical replica Amiga case + keyboard + mouse
2. Ability to license existing/build new PPC motherboards with OS4 compatibility
3. Feasibility of x86 Amithlon+OS3.9 or AROS system being developed.

All I saw was a $500,000 attempted scam.


Yep, and pity the poor bugger who volunteered to collect the cash.  Imagine trying to collect US$500 worth of Pounds, Euros, Australian Dollars, New Zealand Dollars, Pobble Beads, Chickens, Goats, etc, with fluctuating exchange rates.  Imagine then trying to refund money to people who back out or when the whole deals turns out to be bollocks.  The transaction fees alone would hurt.

It was a completely insane idea from a company who is supposed to be in business.  The fact that they suggested it meant that they either knew it wouldn't happen and/or they have no concept on how financial transactions work in a global market.

The idea of having "someone else" organise it and hold the money was a cleaver ploy to protect themselves legally.  Kind of like offloading their product assembly and technical support onto the "dealers" they're trying to recruit.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:20:54 PM
Quote from: koaftder;690477
Hmmm, that sounds another company we know... :roflmao:


and I still have my $50 (virtual) voucher.  :(
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 25, 2012, 09:30:49 PM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;690450
@Vox. As Commodore USA is still a small company it is not currently possible to make everyone's (including ours) dream come true in regard to fulfilling various things the community wants that would denote more of the Amiga's heritage. This is regrettable, but unavoidable at the moment. We have stated the clear intention to do so. Barry even did so a few times in the interview. There have been various miss-steps of course, and all sorts of things were either promised prematurely or stated as plans in the euphoria of the moment of having secured usage of the trademarks. So what? Sometimes things don't go to plan. Stuff happens. But why that should in any way cause such consternation I have no idea. No one is forcing you to buy our products and nothing in your computing life has changed really. You just have another entity with the same goals as most of you, that can't do it all right now, but hopes to.

Incidentally, that magazine(?) article is incorrect. Amiga ROMs for game emulation are under our license from Amiga Inc. Because of this, after many months of discussions, we are still on the fence as to whether it is worth our while licensing Amiga Forever.


If C=USA can't produce replica cases of classic Amiga cases and replica keyboard+mouse designs with Wintel innards inside at the very least then C64x must be a commercial failure that didn't even break even therefore.

There is no other reason to try pimping a $50 Chinese HTPC case that neither looks anything like ANY Amiga EVER sold 1985-94, or is of a similar concept, with a copy of Linux running on standard Wintel silicone. There isn't any business sense in this.

Why anyone at C=USA thinks Amiga Mini has any value to people who are/were interested in real Amigas or OS4 compatibles is beyond me really.

The Amiga Mini in a business context is a waste of time and brand licensing costs.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 25, 2012, 09:34:52 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690485

The idea of having "someone else" organise it and hold the money was a cleaver ploy to protect themselves legally.  Kind of like offloading their product assembly and technical support onto the "dealers" they're trying to recruit.


Well they off loaded the case design and hardware+OS specs to us so might as well have someone else deal with the finance issues too eh? :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: Digiman;690491
Well they off loaded the case design and hardware+OS specs to us so might as well have someone else deal with the finance issues too eh? :)


LOL.

Perhaps when you order from them you're expected to fly to Florida, walk into their shop, assemble your own computer, box it up, address it to yourself and then drop it off at FedEx on your way back to the airport.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 25, 2012, 09:42:05 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690483
Very true, although as Vox (and C-USA) have said, they did announce that agreement.  Once again it was to try and add "value" to a product that has none.  :)

C-USA announce a "new" OS included in the price of their machines so people think they're also buying a $100 Operating System like Windows or MacOS.  Instead they get free Linux.

C-USA announce a partnership with Cloanto so people think they're getting a $30 software package included in the price.  The package silently vanishes.

Customers think they're getting "real" tech support.  Instead they play roulette and hope somebody happens to be near the telephone when they call.

The list goes on...


True. Very worrying that Amiga Mini is a real turd of a product to start with mind.

OK C64x, price and OS aside, was a viable niche product. Had the price not been $1000 more than dead C64+keyrah+i7 micro ATX m/b it may have sold well enough.

They were supposed to improve product line not go back to branded unrelated PCs as sold before C64x
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 25, 2012, 09:45:41 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690492
LOL.

Perhaps when you order from them you're expected to fly to Florida, walk into their shop, assemble your own computer, box it up, address it to yourself and then drop it off at FedEx on your way back to the airport.  :D


They would probably charge extra for the privilege of visiting their factory as a 'deluxe tour' option :roflmao:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:53:17 PM
Quote from: Digiman;690493
True. Very worrying that Amiga Mini is a real turd of a product to start with mind.

OK C64x, price and OS aside, was a viable niche product. Had the price not been $1000 more than dead C64+keyrah+i7 micro ATX m/b it may have sold well enough.

They were supposed to improve product line not go back to branded unrelated PCs as sold before C64x


My gripe about the C64x was the keyboard layout.  The whole "menu key" concept was naff.  They should have just been normal F10-F12 function keys, the C64 graphic symbols should have been on the keys and a C64 emulator should have been pre-installed with the keyboard mapping already set up.  Oh, and throw in a USB joystick too and some *.D64 and/or *.T64 games.

As a novelty (because it wasn't good enought to be a main computer for me at home) it was too expensive to buy "for a laugh".

Meanwhile, I've just picked up a C128D off eBay and it looks almost brand new (so my brother tells me because I'm at work and he unboxed with it).
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 25, 2012, 09:59:42 PM
Quote from: Digiman;690494
They would probably charge extra for the privilege of visiting their factory as a 'deluxe tour' option :roflmao:


and make you answer the phone when people call with problems.


Barry:  "Would you mind getting that?"
Customer:  "Err, sure.  Hello, can I help you?"
Person on Phone:  "Can I speak to Commodore Tech Support please?  My C64x is buggered and doesn't appear to have a mouse."
Customer:  "hang on, I'll get someone...  Barry!  It's a call for Tech Support."
Barry:  "Uh, please deal with it, I, err, I, um... I need to take a dump!  Be right back!"

Customer:  "Leo?"
Leo:  "Um, I need a dump too.  Bye!"

Customer:  "Dammy?"

Customer:  "Err... could you please describe the nature of your technical emergency?"...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Argo on April 25, 2012, 10:26:50 PM
Quote from: dammy;690459
Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.


I don't know of any group that size or large that could agree on anything. I know it has not happened in any organizations or clubs I've been a member of.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 25, 2012, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: tone007;690470
I bet the Amiga online community could very easily get 500 people together to tell C=USA to go to hell.


lets do a poll and see...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 25, 2012, 11:35:24 PM
Quote from: Argo;690504
I don't know of any group that size or large that could agree on anything. I know it has not happened in any organizations or clubs I've been a member of.


Then the community needs to get a petition together asking C=USA to lower the required number of units.  Five hundred is not that significant number of units, it speaks volumes on the real world potential market strength of the online Amiga community.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 25, 2012, 11:40:02 PM
@Dammy,

At least we are in agreement as to WHO the Amiga Community is....


Quote from: dammy;690512
Then the community needs to get a petition together asking C=USA to lower the required number of units.  Five hundred is not that significant number of units, it speaks volumes on the real world potential market strength of the online Amiga community.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 26, 2012, 12:59:12 AM
After reading 30 pages of lies and half assed explanations in Barry's Q & A session, Dammy - why would ANYONE in the community want to have anything to do with C-USA?  A company that has done nothing for us?  Eh, let me correct myself - they were kind enough to send me veiled death threats via PM one time when I voiced polite opinions.

Yeah, maybe I'm the lone guy that found it "odd" that a 30 million dollar ad budget is now suddenly pinned on the ad agency.  Just like how I found it odd the claims of being partners with Disney and everyone else, and now C-USA is being portrayed as "a small company that made some mistakes".

No, lol.  You can't have it both ways, you can't put on the big boy pants and be condescending towards the entire community for YEARS, saying you are gunning for Apple, then flip the switch and be the little guy, trying to eek out an existance while gladhanding false apologies.

I'll ask you again, Dammy - you state how you have no business relationship with Commodore USA.

HOW DO YOU ENJOY YOUR COMMODORE USA PRODUCTS?


Surely you just aren't a talking head, surely their offerings are swell enough for you to get out YOUR wallet, no?  I've asked this question a dozen times, and I'm willing to bet my left nut C-USA hasn't got a single dime of your hard earned money - why the press drive then?

Unless you own one, bought with your own money, you are getting very redundant around here doing the dog and pony show for them, Dammy.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 26, 2012, 01:21:54 AM
Quote from: Duce;690516
Yeah, maybe I'm the lone guy that found it "odd" that a 30 million dollar ad budget is now suddenly pinned on the ad agency.  Just like how I found it odd the claims of being partners with Disney and everyone else, and now C-USA is being portrayed as "a small company that made some mistakes".

No, lol.  You can't have it both ways, you can't put on the big boy pants and be condescending towards the entire community for YEARS, saying you are gunning for Apple, then flip the switch and be the little guy, trying to eek out an existance while gladhanding false apologies.
You're not alone in the least - I just thought it was so blatantly obvious as to be unworthy of mention. But, you know, just for the sake of clarity: Duce is absolutely right. CUSA's varying claims of being both the Next Big Thing and somehow also a struggling little startup are a crock of shít. They don't have the $30 million advertising budget they claimed (and just like the factory pictures, even if it's true that it was bad information on the part of a third party, which I greatly doubt, CUSA were the ones to pass it on without verifying.) They don't have contracts for hundreds of thousands of sales in major retail chains (and that was all Barry, not some tidbit of misinformation he didn't bother to check.) They're not poised to take down the local PC repair shop in the next strip mall over from theirs, let alone Apple. First they try to claim business savvy and mighty connections in an attempt to impress; now that they've not only failed to impress, but actively alienated the only community who would've been interested in their products to begin with, they try to play the sympathy card and be the Scrappy Little Underdog that just needs a chance! to make good and win the hearts and minds of the community. It's all a front, trying to spin things as whatever they think might be to their advantage and desperately hoping that nobody in the community has a memory longer than three months. Guess what, Barry, we do.

And frankly, even if they weren't spinning this, what would it matter? Even if they're a scrappy underdog company that's "made some mistakes" and just wants to make up for getting off on the wrong foot, they're still a company making comically overpriced, mediocre PC clones and labeling them with the name of a company and a computer with which they have absolutely nothing in common, in an attempt to sell to the people who loved the completely unrelated original. That's inane at best and dishonest at worst; why should we want to give them another chance? Once was enough!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 26, 2012, 02:35:53 AM
Agree with Commodore John... CUSA = Small Buinsess mentality, always trying to talk themselves up big..  

Anyways, why doesn't the community move on, let CUSA try their bit and if not successful they will fade into time along with the other companies that tried to resurrect the famous  brand(s)...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: EDanaII on April 26, 2012, 02:44:13 AM
Quote from: dammy;690459
Funny, the Amiga online community couldn't get 500 people to agree on a specific item for C=USA to make for them but you complain about C=USA holding off on making a decision on AF?

IMO, C=USA should include AF in the installed COS systems.


Eh... it wasn't a complaint. It was an observation. C=USA wants to court the community and makes a challenge, which is gonna be BIG no matter what the Community decides, but has trouble making a decision as simple as including UAE and some ROMs...

I think we're back to that "big talk" point that others have raised and I've been observing ever since C=USA first arrived on the scene.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 26, 2012, 02:53:09 AM
Quote from: EDanaII;690528
C=USA wants to court the community and makes a challenge, which is gonna be BIG no matter what the Community decides,


Its probably not the best community to court.. If you dont deliver on high promises then expect to be toasted!  :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 26, 2012, 03:01:32 AM
Quote from: Duce;690516

HOW DO YOU ENJOY YOUR COMMODORE USA PRODUCTS? [/B]

Surely you just aren't a talking head, surely their offerings are swell enough for you to get out YOUR wallet, no?  I've asked this question a dozen times, and I'm willing to bet my left nut C-USA hasn't got a single dime of your hard earned money - why the press drive then?


I don't think his motivations has anything to do with actually liking their products.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: J-Golden on April 26, 2012, 03:27:25 AM
Wellllll, I'd say the Amiga Community is unified on the definition of what an Amiga truly is about the same as Europe is on who the best football team is...:biglaugh:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2012, 03:32:11 AM
Quote from: J-Golden;690531
Wellllll, I'd say the Amiga Community is unified on the definition of what an Amiga truly is about the same as Europe is on who the best football team is...:biglaugh:


Swansea City?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 26, 2012, 04:20:04 AM
Quote from: J-Golden;690531
Wellllll, I'd say the Amiga Community is unified on the definition of what an Amiga truly is about the same as Europe is on who the best football team is...:biglaugh:

Begin football rant :rant:

Don't get me started about football after watching "heros" Chelsea "defeat" Barca yesterday. Chelsea are the biggest cheats in the game. I mean, parking a bus of 9 defenders and using 1 striker to win a game? Can you be any more pathetic?

WORST FOOTBALL TEAM EVER!

End rant :rant:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 26, 2012, 06:40:14 AM
We should get back onto topic, or talk about freedom fries?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 26, 2012, 07:32:50 AM
Quote from: dammy;690512
Then the community needs to get a petition together asking C=USA to lower the required number of units.  Five hundred is not that significant number of units, it speaks volumes on the real world potential market strength of the online Amiga community.


It is C=USA's job to design the product outline, if C=USA don't tell us specifics as to their abilities, contractual restrictions of OS and CPU architecture or their total engineering R&D resource then the discussion is closed. I explained the problem in detail already...

Quote

"Asking customers to design product scope & specification without an accurate description of technical solutions C=USA has the competency to design and build is NOT a viable business plan. Asking them to pay up front is also lunacy.

It is 100% down to C=USA to define their ability to legally, technically and financially be able to potential deliver the following....

1. C64x style bespoke identical replica Amiga case + keyboard + mouse
2. Ability to license existing/build new PPC motherboards with OS4 compatibility
3. Feasibility of x86 Amithlon+OS3.9 or AROS system being developed.

All I saw was a $500,000 attempted scam."
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 26, 2012, 07:54:00 AM
Quote from: BigBenAussie;690450
@Vox.

Incidentally, that magazine(?) article is incorrect.


MIcroMart UK
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 26, 2012, 08:35:58 AM
Quote from: Digiman;690539
It is C=USA's job to design the product outline, if C=USA don't tell us specifics as to their abilities, contractual restrictions of OS and CPU architecture or their total engineering R&D resource then the discussion is closed. I explained the problem in detail already...

It's not a scam, it's a way of ending the discussion.
 
If I had people constantly asking me to make something that I didn't think I was going to make money at then I'd ask them to put their money where their mouth was.
The money was basically a pre-order, if CUSA failed to ship the product then I'd expect the money to be refunded. Of course you should make sure the contract was drawn up correctly to avoid any future disappointment
 
There is nothing to stop anyone from producing a PPC motherboard that fits one of CUSA's cases. An overpriced motherboard in an overpriced case is a perfect match.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: takemehomegrandma on April 26, 2012, 08:41:34 AM
My god, is this thread *still* going on? How long are you guys going to say the same thing over and over again? I guess he was right though — this interview *did* generate a lot of traffic to this site! :lol:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Akiko on April 26, 2012, 02:36:04 PM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;690543
My god, is this thread *still* going on? How long are you guys going to say the same thing over and over again? I guess he was right though — this interview *did* generate a lot of traffic to this site! :lol:

Some might notice you've been repeating the same things here at nauseum for almost 10 years. ;)

Quote from: tone007;690470
I bet the Amiga online community could very easily get 500 people together to tell C=USA to go to hell.

Well they did ask for a poll what the community wants, we should give em one. :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 26, 2012, 02:40:16 PM
Quote from: wrath of khan;690475
With 500 people putting money forward we could do something ourselves.


Then why isn't it being done by yourselves?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 26, 2012, 02:43:11 PM
Quote from: Duce;690516
Unless you own one, bought with your own money, you are getting very redundant around here doing the dog and pony show for them, Dammy.


Vs you all's trolling and libel?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: EDanaII on April 26, 2012, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: darkage;690529
Its probably not the best community to court.. If you dont deliver on high promises then expect to be toasted!  :)


The C=USA situation kinda reminds me of a man who really wants to date a beautiful young woman, and yet won't do a damned thing to win her favor. "So, sweetheart, where would you like to go tonight?" "How about Chez Nous?" "What? That place is expensive! What stuck up 8:+(#!" Yea... that works REAL good. ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 26, 2012, 03:34:50 PM
Trolling?  Pointing out facts isn't trolling, Dammy.  Poking holes in hazy (and hysterically funny) logic isn't trolling.

Libel?  Is not one thing I have said here that cannot be backed up by things directly uttered by C-USA here or elsewhere.  Anyone with 10 minutes of free time can do the legwork.  Complaints of machines running extremely hot and other issues were on their own forums, and yes - people did screenshot said posts before they were removed.  You are accusing me and others of slander, Dammy - and that's just not true, and it's not appreciated.

Didn't answer me, Dammy.  How's that C-USA machine of yours treating you?  A guy that fervently supports a company like you do, you know, you not being an employee or anything of the sort, surely bought one and can offer a glowing review of it?  I'm honestly curious how you are enjoying your purchase, Dammy - please share.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2012, 03:36:04 PM
Quote from: dammy;690553
Vs you all's trolling and libel?


See you in court then.  I could do with some extra cash.

Just remember, YOU are the guy who posted pictures of non-existant factories and thousands of motherboards that did not belong to C-USA.  Once a link between you and C-USA can be proven then YOU are the one who could face legal action by anyone who invested (or invests) money in C-USA based on your statements.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 26, 2012, 04:39:33 PM
Quote from: dammy;690551
Then why isn't it being done by yourselves?


Minimig? AROS? Morph OS? Individual Computers? The guys that make the PS2 controller adapters or Svideo adapters?

The hobby is f'ing teeming with people taking initiative and building crazy, cool things
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2012, 04:43:35 PM
Quote from: runequester;690565
Minimig? AROS? Morph OS? Individual Computers? The guys that make the PS2 controller adapters or Svideo adapters?

The hobby is f'ing teeming with people taking initiative and building crazy, cool things


and they don't ask for 500 pre-orders and cash in advance either.  ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 26, 2012, 04:53:03 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690568
and they don't ask for 500 pre-orders and cash in advance either.  ;)


Bonus points that I doubt Jens from individual computers makes his stuff in China.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 26, 2012, 04:53:06 PM
Personally I don't see the Amiga Mini selling well. Why you ask?


1. No way to run AmigaOS or classic software included.

2. Looks nothing like any Amiga new or old, nostalgia factor lost.

3. Might have power supply issues.

4. GPU is too slow.

5. No value add, everything included is off the shelf parts and a free Linux OS.

6. Very high price.

7. Lack of community interest.

Going to try and have a long talk with Transition this weekend on why CommodoreUSA gets so much coverage here. Personally I think OS4, MorphOS, X1000 & AROS should be covered more. Leave Amiga Mini for Amigans.net.

:)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 26, 2012, 04:59:36 PM
Quote from: Duce;690516
After reading 30 pages of lies and half assed explanations in Barry's Q & A session, Dammy - why would ANYONE in the community want to have anything to do with C-USA? A company that has done nothing for us? Eh, let me correct myself - they were kind enough to send me veiled death threats via PM one time when I voiced polite opinions.

Companies only do things to make you want to spend money. If you expect anyone to do more than that they you'll always be disappointed.
 
If you bought a product from them and it was faulty then you should contact them privately first and then follow up through the proper channels if that doesn't work out. At the point you make a complaint on a public forum then you have removed any good will and reduce your chance of a satisfactory outcome. If you didn't buy anything and were merely getting stuck in because you thought they needed sorting out then you're out of order.
 
I'm not sure what you count as a veiled death threat, but you should have gone through the proper channels with that as well.
 
I'm not affiliated with CUSA & have never bought any of their products & most likely never will. However they have as much right as anyone else to try in business, even if they don't seem to be very good at it. I'm sick of every CUSA thread being turned into a he said/she said playtime argument. Get over it.
 
commodore sold c64's that caught fire the day you first used them, they knew they were faulty when they left the factory (although not necessarily that they would catch fire) and shipped them to meet christmas demand. Whether you're that bothered about it will depend on whether it was your christmas that was ruined when the house burnt down.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 26, 2012, 05:12:36 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690558
Once a link between you and C-USA can be proven then YOU are the one who could face legal action by anyone who invested (or invests) money in C-USA based on your statements.

Unlikely, as an investor should perform due diligence.
 
Even if dammy was directly employed by CUSA he never claimed to represent it.
 
Marketing material is almost always faked (although they like to call it artistic impression) but it's not generally illegal.
 
If an advertisment produced by CUSA for a product made misleading claims then you could have a point. However even showing the wrong factory in an advert would not be illegal, because it has no impact on the functionalilty of the product.
 
I don't know if I believe that it was the marketing companies fault, but it's definately possible. Bill Hicks had his own opinions on marketing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 26, 2012, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: runequester;690565
Minimig? AROS? Morph OS? Individual Computers? The guys that make the PS2 controller adapters or Svideo adapters?

The hobby is f'ing teeming with people taking initiative and building crazy, cool things


.....and Natami of course.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 26, 2012, 06:05:23 PM
The real test for CUSA is when the Faux Retro market becomes saturated.  That has yet to come.  Commodore was never a quality brand and it'll be hard to sell someone a more expensive Commodore when they could just buy a Dell, HP or some shops brand.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 26, 2012, 06:20:58 PM
Quote from: psxphill;690574
Unlikely, as an investor should perform due diligence.

If an advertisment produced by CUSA for a product made misleading claims then you could have a point. However even showing the wrong factory in an advert would not be illegal, because it has no impact on the functionalilty of the product.
 
I don't know if I believe that it was the marketing companies fault, but it's definately possible. Bill Hicks had his own opinions on marketing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo


This is not current product but kind of "company history" missleading.
Nothing illegal, but kind of immoral.
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_ClassicModels.aspx
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: motrucker on April 26, 2012, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;690570
Personally I don't see the Amiga Mini selling well. Why you ask?


1. No way to run AmigaOS or classic software included.

2. Looks nothing like any Amiga new or old, nostalgia factor lost.

3. Might have power supply issues.

4. GPU is too slow.

5. No value add, everything included is off the shelf parts and a free Linux OS.

6. Very high price.

7. Lack of community interest.

Going to try and have a long talk with Transition this weekend on why CommodoreUSA gets so much coverage here. Personally I think OS4, MorphOS, X1000 & AROS should be covered more. Leave Amiga Mini for Amigans.net.

:)

Excellent idea! It would be great to Amiga.org turn back into a serious Amiga forum (although I do hope people do NOT loose their sense of humor). It's a shame this site has lost it's credibility to such an extent.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2012, 08:28:15 PM
Quote from: psxphill;690574
Unlikely, as an investor should perform due diligence.
 
Even if dammy was directly employed by CUSA he never claimed to represent it.
 
Marketing material is almost always faked (although they like to call it artistic impression) but it's not generally illegal.
 
If an advertisment produced by CUSA for a product made misleading claims then you could have a point. However even showing the wrong factory in an advert would not be illegal, because it has no impact on the functionalilty of the product.
 
I don't know if I believe that it was the marketing companies fault, but it's definately possible. Bill Hicks had his own opinions on marketing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo


True, real investors should, but C-USA has already shown via their website that they intend to target "enthusiastic armatures".  While I suspect that their (his?) original plan might have been to target a smaller number of high-rollers (which would explain the Disney marketing, lies about the "factory" and "high-street orders", etc which have failed, the new target is the little guy looking to be his own boss with $10k-20k to "invest".  Convince 1000 people to "invest" $10,000 and you can walk away with a cool $10,000,000, divert the funds into shell companies, file bankruptcy and start all over again as Sinclair-USA.  Websites like this that keep pointing out the BS and which are easily found with a Google search must be a real pain in the backside for them.  Ironically, the more they try to shut the critics up, the more “hits” they make for people to discover the truth.

Remember, C-USA knew how many C64x machines they had ordered so when Dammy posted that picture of tens-of-thousands of motherboards on pallets (I did a quick calculation based on that picture and IIRC there was around 60,000 motherboards visible) he KNEW that they were not the real thing.  Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and accept that he was sent the picture by Barry in good faith then Barry must have known they were not his motherboards unless you are willing to believe that the CEO of a computer company last no idea what his motherboards of his one and only product looks like or know how many he ordered.  Once we accept that Barry must have been lying, we also know that his story about his “China Agent” sending him the pics was also a load of dingo’s kidneys.  ?  Leo as CTO also must have known that the pictures were false, unless a CTO has no involvement in product development.

In short, we can’t trust a word these guys say and the big question is, why are they lying?  Are they doing it to look stupid or are they doing it for potential financial gain?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: koaftder on April 26, 2012, 08:40:14 PM
The mobos were off the shelf stuff sold to other companies as well. It wouldn't be surprising at all to see a gigantic pile of them in an warehouse somewhere. Of course finding out that the picture you received from your supplier, and then used to brag with, was swiped from a website and then getting ripped on in the press for it is embarrassing.

It is interesting to see how much flack CUSA gets, when they've put their money where their mouths are, designed, produced and have for sale real products, and all done within reasonable time frames.

I think the root of the problem a lot of people have comes down to the fact that CUSA actually achieves its goals unlike most everything else in Amiga land which is mostly absurd hype that never materializes and what does is usually broken and will be fixed "any day now".
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 26, 2012, 08:47:52 PM
Quote from: koaftder;690584
The mobos were off the shelf stuff sold to other companies as well. It wouldn't be surprising at all to see a gigantic pile of them in an warehouse somewhere. Of course finding out that the picture you received from your supplier, and then used to brag with, was swiped from a website and then getting ripped on in the press for it is embarrassing.

It is interesting to see how much flack CUSA gets, when they've put their money where their mouths are, designed, produced and have for sale real products, and all done within reasonable time frames.

I think the root of the problem a lot of people have comes down to the fact that CUSA actually achieves its goals unlike most everything else in Amiga land which is mostly absurd hype that never materializes and what does is usually broken and will be fixed "any day now".


The fact they produced a C64x doesn't excuse the rest of their behavior.  It is as simple as that, especially when their attitude obviously hasn't changed.

Many people (aCube, Indivision, E3B, etc) have produced products (more than one!) and they don't act the way C-USA acts.

You'll need to explain how C-USA has achieved its goals too.  Where is the $30m advertising?  Where is the high-street retailer?  Where are the 100,000 orders?  Where are the (prinched of the internet) designs for those wonderful cases they showed on their website?

Rather than achieve their goals, I'd say that they have failed repeatedly.

How difficult is it to buy one of these:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2311915&CatId=4149
Install a graphics card and Linux
Put a C= sticker on it.
Multiply the price 3 or 4 times and then sell it (actually, the selling is the hard part as they're finding out).

And that price was retail!  Source the parts from China in bulk and you should get it down to a third or a quarter of that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 26, 2012, 09:00:00 PM
@koaftder

C=USA's goals are low enough that they can make them, at least for now.  But they don't do anything that a typical mom and pop computer store does, assemble off the shelf hardware.  I've done it, a lot of people have done it.  But what that means is that they essentially made the goals of producing an Amiga by abandoning everything it means to be an Amiga.  

While most of us realise it is impossible to pick up where Commodore left off, there should be something unique about Amiga, some reason other than the name to be loyal to.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: haywirepc on April 26, 2012, 09:53:18 PM
I think most of their problem is their attitudes and all the lying. If they had said very little and produced what they produced without all the hype, getting caught stealing text from apples website... Getting caught lying about a 30 million dollar advertising budget. Getting caught lying about pictures with 60,000 motherboards they owned or were made for them, getting caught with fake pictures of their factory, getting caught slapping a commodore sticker on a cybernet zpc, and so on...

Maybe people would have a better attitude towards them. I mean think about it if you catch someone you know in your personal life boldly lying to your face 6 or 7 times, and you catch them doing so, you never trust anything they say ever again. (and you shouldn't) You simply regard them as full of ****, which is what everyone with a brain has done to CUSA by now.

Add one more lie to the long list too...
Another problem they have is they think people are too stupid to check on anything they say. When they announced their 30 million dollar advertising budget, they also announced their NYC advertising company. I happen to be in NYC every other week or so. I stopped by there (The actual ad agency) This was when they were promising TV ads by December. It was October at that time when I visited their ad company. They hadn't even begun filming anything and the advertising guy he mentioned was surprised to hear about tv commercials by December. Why? No one there knew anything about a 30 million dollar budget. No one there knew anything about ads by December. (They actually laughed when I told them this) Now Barry blames them for the 30 million dollar lie? There you go, caught in another bold faced lie.

Think about commodore gaming. No one came on here trashing them, but then they didn't go around lying all the time or claiming to be the second coming, being abusive towards anyone with questions and lying to everyone, they just made product, and people (even people here) bought their cases and products, even if they were just bog standard pc's and pc cases.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: tone007 on April 27, 2012, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: persia;690587
@koaftder

C=USA's goals are low enough that they can make them


YES.

I took a dump today, love and praise me!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 27, 2012, 12:21:55 AM
Linky

http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releases/commodore-usa-appoints-korey-kay-102977849.html

It's still on the CommodoreUSA press release site too. Bet they will be zapping that one.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 27, 2012, 12:32:39 AM
Don't forget Dammy's phone call with Barry about $20,000+ Amiga's.

http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/8551-phone-call-with-barry

Don't forget to add $10 to that since you have to buy Amiga Forever yourself.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 27, 2012, 12:49:15 AM
Quote from: psxphill;690542
It's not a scam, it's a way of ending the discussion.
 
If I had people constantly asking me to make something that I didn't think I was going to make money at then I'd ask them to put their money where their mouth was.
The money was basically a pre-order, if CUSA failed to ship the product then I'd expect the money to be refunded. Of course you should make sure the contract was drawn up correctly to avoid any future disappointment
 
There is nothing to stop anyone from producing a PPC motherboard that fits one of CUSA's cases. An overpriced motherboard in an overpriced case is a perfect match.


It was a shil. Like I said they needed to tell us what they can achieve in detail.

Legally possible to pursue Amithlon?
AROS improvements donated by programmers/bounties they finance?
Technical skill to develop G5 based motherboard from scratch?
How much profit/mark up would they sacrifice on cost price of replica A1200 keyboard and case.

REAL businesses also would give all this information and produce a working prototype before asking for a small 20% deposit not 100%.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 27, 2012, 12:53:42 AM
Quote from: dammy;690551
Then why isn't it being done by yourselves?

1. Because NOBODY, especially C=USA, has asked after doing all the required background investigation required to convince people to part with their money.

2. Most businesses are not stupid enough to require the customers to design a worthwhile product to sell because they are clueless.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 27, 2012, 12:56:58 AM
Quote from: Duce;690557

Didn't answer me, Dammy.  How's that C-USA machine of yours treating you?  A guy that fervently supports a company like you do, you know, you not being an employee or anything of the sort, surely bought one and can offer a glowing review of it?  I'm honestly curious how you are enjoying your purchase, Dammy - please share.


They didn't send a review machine to a certain huge retro website either.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 27, 2012, 01:05:56 AM
Special CommodoreUSA Amazing Magic
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 27, 2012, 01:07:55 AM
Quote from: persia;690587
@koaftder

C=USA's goals are low enough that they can make them, at least for now.  But they don't do anything that a typical mom and pop computer store does, assemble off the shelf hardware.  I've done it, a lot of people have done it.  But what that means is that they essentially made the goals of producing an Amiga by abandoning everything it means to be an Amiga.  

While most of us realise it is impossible to pick up where Commodore left off, there should be something unique about Amiga, some reason other than the name to be loyal to.


Exactly, if it has to be an x86 WINTEL motherboard it must be 100% AROS compatible and come in a replica Amiga 500/600/1000/1200/1500/2000/3000/4000 case AND with an identical keyboard layout at the very least.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 27, 2012, 01:20:06 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;690601
Linky

http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releases/commodore-usa-appoints-korey-kay-102977849.html

It's still on the CommodoreUSA press release site too. Bet they will be zapping that one.


LOL.  So they admit it was a lie (and it wasn't their idea, oh no!) and yet we have it in black and white that they set it up right from the start.  Brilliant.  :)

I like this line:

Quote
Commodore USA, LLC designs, produces and markets a series of all-in-one Commodore and Amiga branded keyboard computers, and other unique form factor computers and consumer electronics.


So back in September C-USA was claiming it produced and marketed a series of Amiga branded computers and yet here we are in April and they're showing us demo models of someone else's case.  Does... not... compute...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 27, 2012, 01:30:34 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;690608
Don't forget Dammy's phone call with Barry about $20,000+ Amiga's.

http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/8551-phone-call-with-barry

Don't forget to add $10 to that since you have to buy Amiga Forever yourself.


Another classic from over 7 months ago:

Quote
Dammy:  "I just got off a long phone call with Barry. Barry apologizes for the delay in answering the questions we asked awhile ago, but he is busy living a real life fairy tale."


Was Pinocchio classed as a fairytale?

Quote
Dammy:  "He wanted me to replay that the AIO keyboards are have seals. If you spill something on the keyboard, just wipe it off (or a damp rag if it's soda because of the acid). Keyboards are replaceable."


Shame that a huge company like that has to use fanboys to inform customers of a product's specifications.  Still, a "wank-proof" keyboard should keep Dammy happy.

Quote
Dammy:  "Yes, there is going to be unbelievable amount of games that will come on the preinstalled hard drives."


He forgot to add "and they're also downloadable for free off the internet."

Quote
Dammy:  "There will be multiple options on what OS you can get pre-installed which you can boot from."


Yes, you can ask for COS or Linux Mint.
 
Quote
Dammy:  "They are working on a app store, devs will pick what price they want (if any) to sell it for."


If only the Webmaster can work out from his copy of "Website Design For Dummies" how to implement it.  7 months obviously isn't long enough.
 
Quote
Dammy:  "Amiga information will be coming out in the next 14 or so days. He was hoping it will be in the next couple of days but it might be a couple of weeks. Again, he is time is extremely limited. Amiga will using all high end hardware (i7) with price for AIO starting around $2K and going upwards into the $20K plus zone. Amiga will be targeting the pro home user and professionals."


High end CPU and low end everything else.  Still, not as high as the price.  Still, at least their $20k model will make the X1000 look cheap.

Quote
Dammy:  "Very exciting times "


"Comedy Gold" more like it.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 27, 2012, 01:37:09 AM
Keyboard computers, that must be a tiny keyboard on the Amiga Mini since I can't see it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: swoslover on April 27, 2012, 04:35:48 AM
People are ridiculously self righteous about this.

It is ok to have threads about windows phones on the front page.

How're cusa which is Amiga related is not allowed.

Like it or not they have the rights to use the Amiga name.  That makes them of interest to the amiga community.

Some people on here are so elitist and condescending towards anything that doesn't fit within their narrow definition of an Amiga.  These are the ones ruining the boar with their trolling.

I will never buy a pc with an Amiga logo printed on it.  That doesn't mean we can't debate it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 27, 2012, 05:42:34 AM
Quote from: swoslover;690627
People are ridiculously self righteous about this.

It is ok to have threads about windows phones on the front page.

How're cusa which is Amiga related is not allowed.


I don't like those threads either but they're started by other Amigans not the manufacturer.

Quote from: swoslover;690627
Like it or not they have the rights to use the Amiga name.  That makes them of interest to the amiga community.

They do indeed have that right however calling PCs with Linux in HTPC cases "Amiga" disaster/scam is our only interest. Perhaps Google search results willhelp keep fools from parting with their $$$

Quote from: swoslover;690627

Some people on here are so elitist and condescending towards anything that doesn't fit within their narrow definition of an Amiga.  These are the ones ruining the boar with their trolling.


Not really, FREE engraved Amiga logo by Chinese manufacturer and some money paid to Amiga Inc is as Amiga as their overprice HTPC Wintel machine gets. Not even AROS tested.

If you don't like me trying to stop some clueless scum trying to rape one of my childhood brands today then just skip this thread. I'm morally on the high ground here vs C=USA sorry.

Quote from: swoslover;690627

I will never buy a pc with an Amiga logo printed on it.  That doesn't mean we can't debate it.


We are debating every aspect of this lamentable situation here!

Until C=USA make an effort it is my duty to tell people the TRUTH!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 27, 2012, 08:35:34 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690583
In short, we can’t trust a word these guys say and the big question is, why are they lying? Are they doing it to look stupid or are they doing it for potential financial gain?

I'm willing to accept it's incompetence.
 
I don't recall them claiming that every motherboard in the picture was for a c64x, just that it was the factory that was assembling them. If did then yes they were lying but it was probably just to make themselves look better, which is basically marketing. If so then it backfired and continuing to worry about it is not healthy.
 
Why do you care so much? Every single piece of marketing is just as unreliable. Anyone who invested money in them would easily have invested in some other get rich quick scheme, so the outcome would be the same. A fool and their money are easily parted.
 
Quote from: Digiman;690628
If you don't like me trying to stop some clueless scum trying to rape one of my childhood brands today then just skip this thread. I'm morally on the high ground here vs C=USA sorry.



We are debating every aspect of this lamentable situation here!

Until C=USA make an effort it is my duty to tell people the TRUTH!

Boring. It's business, morals have no place.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 27, 2012, 11:27:07 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690620
Another classic from over 7 months ago:



Was Pinocchio classed as a fairytale?



Shame that a huge company like that has to use fanboys to inform customers of a product's specifications.  Still, a "wank-proof" keyboard should keep Dammy happy.



He forgot to add "and they're also downloadable for free off the internet."



Yes, you can ask for COS or Linux Mint.
 


If only the Webmaster can work out from his copy of "Website Design For Dummies" how to implement it.  7 months obviously isn't long enough.
 


High end CPU and low end everything else.  Still, not as high as the price.  Still, at least their $20k model will make the X1000 look cheap.



"Comedy Gold" more like it.  :D


ROTFLMAO!... Darrin, keep these posts coming.. haven't laughed this much in ages :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 12:29:22 PM
Quote from: OlafS3;688988
I have shortly read the paragraphs regarding the existing community and it is clear that they have not invested anything and will not ("waste of money"). Aros would be the only interesting for them (X86) but they are not allowed to do (AmigaInc/Hyperion) and because of that they will never invest just one cent in it. All 68k projects are interesting but they will not invest, PPC is not interesting and they would never invest in a port of AOS or MorphOS and besides they want to control the OS. Therefore all closed source OSs are not interesting. So we know what we all can expect of them. Nothing. What I do not understand why they keep on trying to get on amigasites in the news if they are not interested in the community.


"Commodore USA, LLC." can not because that would and could violate the ruling of a U.S. Judge which nevertheless could be appealed by measures of statutory reasons BUT that is problematic because it was a settlement and ruling of a settlement and became contractual.

However, Barry can personally invest legally as an LLC. is by statutes a sepaerate "person" by statutes fro Barry. It is a seperate entity. Now, "person" in laws have been standardly stated in virtually all federal and states, as any "natural person", corporation, limited liability partnership, limited liability company, etc. Natural person has a specific meaning.

Barry may personally donate but that is not about Commodore USA, LLC. That is seperate matters. Keep that in mind. Violating court judgement when knowing the ramifications can be quite serious.

Those of you less then savory type might know what contempt of court ramifications are. Think bigger fines and federal prison in this case. Not worth it.

The legal contestment is that the conditions of ruling must be enforceable and rational. Does the ruling meet the rational basis review test. Did it violate Amiga's ownership rights to begin with and Amiga's right as copyright holder to terminate a contract. So to the equitable capacity of hyperion, it probably isn't an issue of whether or not, Commodore USA / Amiga Inc. Terminate hyperion license and equitable revenue of Amiga OS. The problem at some point is that it become systemically moot.

Hyperion only has license of a copyright not a patent. No copyright protection over Intuition and user interface concept. Amiga copyright only extends to software code and art but does not cover user interfaces which requires patenting. That patent expired. It is public domain and because of that, Hyperion has no standing on patent. The standing of case is merely Hyperions code contribution between 3.1 to 4.1. Hyperion's framework of code is largely PPC matters and if all PPC code which is C/C++ source or PPC assembly would be moot to different computing platform.

Precedence of judicial rulings on threshold of "__________-like" in software must be kept. For license and matters to apply, it must deemed work derivative to which Hyperion has ultimate right over. Then what is the point.

I can certainly use a UI feel that follows expired patent and license Commodore and because it is completely different code base, hyperion wouldn't have a copyright ground because there is no statutory authority to copyright laws for protecting user interface mechanics and no code from 68k or any Amiga or Hyperion source ever used. I can can put it in Java and hard compile it to binary x86. In turn, they have no equitable power over the outcome.

The precence of gary kildall vs. microsoft (the cp/m and MS-dos case must be bared in mind)

A style of feel of a user interface and the mechanics of that of an invented software is a patent thing. It expired and I have the patent file. In the end, it doesn't matter. That is yester-decades ago.

The problem with so many of you is you are demanding CommodoreUSA to fulfill Escom's bull**** and trying to start from 1993 tech. Guess what, motorola has stopped major advancement in the 68k processor. The fastest one is the 68k coldfire and some under the dragonball name from Motorola/Freescale. It is dated and slow. 266 MHz? Um... Well overclock... 300 Mhz.

My bone to pick with the nut jobs on this forum is in nearly 20 years since the last Amiga model was introduced, would you want an Amiga for your day to day regular mainstream computer that compares with your actual paid job or even the kind of job you had got your original Amiga. How many of you got the Amiga 4000 and other power house for movie and other professional graphics work. Would that Natami or other Amiga clones even meet the scrutiny and power and capability that your work place would need today. Would it meet the needs of George Lucas and others. Lets get serious. Amiga was the graphic minicomputer workstation for the masses that can sit on your desk. That kind of professional stature and ability is exactly the kind of stuff Amiga was remembered for. A modern Amiga line must model as a premier of quality graphics with strong grahic facilities. Amiga models with wacoms and various professional graphic software suites for the sectors in professional graphics like DTP, movie & TV CGI, CAD/Arch/engineering, etc.

This would re-signify it as a serious system for such.

Barry was very much in place where it really was used and knows first hand what Amiga was about for much of Amiga history beyond the video games which was captured in the Amiga 500 more then anything. The beefier Amigas were more seriously used. They weren't toys That you just dicked around with. Of course, a majority of you didn't have a 4000 or 4000T until they were surplused off or you finally got a job working for a cgi company that upgraded to SGI O2 and later models and pentium MMX PCs and just said taken em, dump em, whatever and you took em home.

Some was after sever passing around. Barry was a 1st gen user not 2nd gen. He was old enough to know more of what it was about as an adult vs. a child with fantacized imagery of how things were or a young teenager in high school breaking the law in piracy, hacking, cracking and what not along with cyber-"punk" theme demo culture with techno and other late 80s and early 90s metal. Many of you are late 30s, early 40s. Why haven't some of you guys made it big as big leading guys instead of falling out of the big time stuff. I think those issues lie with yourself not with the computer.

Some of you have problems and the computer became a security blanket.  That can be bad. If you can enjoy the commodore and amiga but not need it then you are good. If your life is too attached... That kind of fanaticism is a little kinky and wrong for your own sake. Ie. Tne Amiga computer wasn't meant to be our actual girlfriend. ( poke and jab joke but to make the bottom line point )

As to a modern computer product, it must be modern. The macs today are nothing like the old mac by hardware or its actual OS.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: matt3k on April 27, 2012, 12:41:09 PM
I partially agree with SWOS on this.

I don't know all the details so excuse if I miss some details.  I have no interest in CUSA, and largely ignored it, but if the guy wants to make pc boxes that have an Amiga logos.  Let him do it, and see what fruit his effort bear over time.  If he produces nothing or something, time will tell.  It's his money, I wish him well and hope his idea takes off for him.  Again, I'm not going to buy into it, but doesn't mean I want him to crash and burn.    

Same could be said concerning AOS4, Let Trevor and Hyperion do their plan and see what it produces.  You can criticize the X1000 on it's price or AOS4 lack of finish.  What good will it do?  Let them do there thing and see where it ends up.  Hope they sell lots of 1000's and copies of AOS.  I'm not going to buy into this offering either, but if they have lots of success it's good for the community.

MOS is still finishing 3.0 and only runs on hardware that is no longer in production.  MOS is not finished.  I own MOS and use it for my personal stuff, but I can't do all the things I can on my pc.  Wish the MOS guys well, hope 3.0 is a success and they sell lots of them.

We can all cast stones, why waste the energy and time.  I give the developers who port their apps to all the available Amiga platforms, lots of credit.  We need to unify the communities, to keep them afloat.  We desperately need new applications and new ideas to keep it moving, we need people to invest time and money into it.

Just my 10,000 cents (2 cents adjusted for inflation)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 12:43:50 PM
Shutup,

Put your $$$$ to invest in the brand, company, acquiring the rights. Just because you bought the computer. I been an owner of Commodore computer as far back as the 80s. You have no invested interest in the IP.

Your interest is selfish and to your own personal gain. You don't believe anyone should buy and make money on the brand or that they are going to be some 1 hour a month bull **** business that does nothing. You guys don't buy new hardware.

If you can't really make Jens Schonfeld and others what their economic worth it, then I would have a hard time believing your intent to support. Even then, it is hard to classify him and some of these folks real businesses. They are supporting quasi-businesses. As for thee hobby and quasi-projects... It will only go so long and then what?  Maybe it is ti e the old hw is museum piece while you enjoy the spirit of it via emulation. Oh wait.... You already do that...well most of you.

How many of you use this for real life serious business and professional work use. If there is 100s of members registered to this forum and only a few talk, that isn't enough. 2-3 out of a 100... How many of you is it just a pass time weekend hobby. How much is it serious daily business and work use.



Quote from: Digiman;690628
I don't like those threads either but they're started by other Amigans not the manufacturer.


They do indeed have that right however calling PCs with Linux in HTPC cases "Amiga" disaster/scam is our only interest. Perhaps Google search results willhelp keep fools from parting with their $$$



Not really, FREE engraved Amiga logo by Chinese manufacturer and some money paid to Amiga Inc is as Amiga as their overprice HTPC Wintel machine gets. Not even AROS tested.

If you don't like me trying to stop some clueless scum trying to rape one of my childhood brands today then just skip this thread. I'm morally on the high ground here vs C=USA sorry.



We are debating every aspect of this lamentable situation here!

Until C=USA make an effort it is my duty to tell people the TRUTH!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 27, 2012, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: psxphill;690638
I'm willing to accept it's incompetence.

 
Boring. It's business, morals have no place.


True, but even in bussiness there are even strict conduct of behaviour,
that punishes you heavily if you disrispect the customers.

C=USA just ain`t a good bussiness model.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: spirantho on April 27, 2012, 01:27:18 PM
I don't think any of us here are under the delusion that the Amiga in any way - be it AOS, MOS or even CommodoreOS - is ever going to be a serious contender in the professional market. That market is completely sewn up, even attempting to is equivalent to corporate suicide.

The Amiga has long been about being a hobby platform, that's all. It's about enjoying using a computer. And no C=USA platform will do that for me, as it's all Linux, which I don't enjoy.

The serious market can keep their Windows and Linux boxes, and I'll keep my Amiga box. The two need never cross over. You don't need to be a big fish if you're in a niche market.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 27, 2012, 01:51:29 PM
Quote from: matt3k;690660
It's his money, I wish him well and hope his idea takes off for him. Again, I'm not going to buy into it, but doesn't mean I want him to crash and burn.

Yeah, I agree with you. I don't get why some people aren't happy with hating CUSA themselves, they want to make sure that everyone hates them.
 
Quote from: vox;690662
True, but even in bussiness there are even strict conduct of behaviour,
that punishes you heavily if you disrispect the customers.

C=USA just ain`t a good bussiness model.

In business you have to worry about consumer law & contract law. If they break a contract or one of their obligations to consumers then they can be punished, disrespecting your customers has no direct consequence. You just might find it harder to find new customers.
 
If you stopped using companies that didn't treat you with respect then you'd be sitting in the dark, cold & starving. All you can hope for is that they lie and say they respect you.
 
I buy what I want at the price I want to pay & have no brand loyalty (*), it's all about the product.
 
(*) I have brand laziness for recurring revenue, constantly switching suppliers cost me time. However I do try to keep on top of it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 27, 2012, 01:54:11 PM
@wildstar128:

After that last post all I can say is "welcome back Barry".
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: tone007 on April 27, 2012, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: wildstar128;690661
shutup,


27.3%
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 27, 2012, 02:03:58 PM
Quote from: psxphill;690669

In business you have to worry about consumer law & contract law. If they break a contract or one of their obligations to consumers then they can be punished, disrespecting your customers has no direct consequence. You just might find it harder to find new customers.
 .


Well, we can say they are "driving on the edge" always testing limits of licences (Workbench 5 name, exact Amiga modeling, bundling with AROS, announcements that just prove to be fake) as well as customer patience.

It`s just isn`t a role model, think would you drive business same way if you were in charge. Even its retro time and globalization, as well as crisis. With Amiga its just different it`s not "just" retro, there is some community and it had some development, "a life after death", so C=USA isn`t a real comeback.

We are always surprised to see  Whats Next (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFCn9J1n6hE)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 27, 2012, 02:13:46 PM
I like the way that Barry, sorry Wildstar128 thinks that we're the crazy ones, and not someone with a type AAA+ personality disorder who thought he could muscle in on an existing community, claim to be Jesus Christ and then dictate a new direction for the Amiga that happens to walk all over the existing x86 and Linux communities.

He also apparently thinks that the Hyperion/Amiga Inc settlement has forced C-USA to lie, insult and spam.

Finally, he thinks we are upset about what Barry hasn't done, while it is actually what he has done (lies, insults and spam).

You would think that the fact that we're debating this in a thread on Amiga.org and not CommodoreAmiga.net would make the bells ring as to who has the mental problems here.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 27, 2012, 02:15:08 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690661
Shutup,

Put your $$$$ to invest in the brand, company, acquiring the rights. Just because you bought the computer. I been an owner of Commodore computer as far back as the 80s. You have no invested interest in the IP.

Your interest is selfish and to your own personal gain. You don't believe anyone should buy and make money on the brand or that they are going to be some 1 hour a month bull **** business that does nothing. You guys don't buy new hardware.

If you can't really make Jens Schonfeld and others what their economic worth it, then I would have a hard time believing your intent to support. Even then, it is hard to classify him and some of these folks real businesses. They are supporting quasi-businesses. As for thee hobby and quasi-projects... It will only go so long and then what?  Maybe it is ti e the old hw is museum piece while you enjoy the spirit of it via emulation. Oh wait.... You already do that...well most of you.

How many of you use this for real life serious business and professional work use. If there is 100s of members registered to this forum and only a few talk, that isn't enough. 2-3 out of a 100... How many of you is it just a pass time weekend hobby. How much is it serious daily business and work use.


Painful reading. Is English a second language or are you still at school?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: psxphill on April 27, 2012, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: vox;690673
It`s just isn`t a role model, think would you drive business same way if you were in charge. Even its retro time and globalization, as well as crisis. With Amiga its just different it`s not "just" retro, there is some community and it had some development, "a life after death", so C=USA isn`t a real comeback.

CUSA are following in the Commodore tradition of taking a good idea and completely screwing it up.
 
They are under no obligation to treat the Amiga name with the sanctity that you desire. You're better off just ignoring them.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 27, 2012, 02:35:36 PM
+1

They made false promises and tried to be something they are not. They are only a very small company that acquired the right to sell PCs with "Amiga" on it. They have nothing innovative or special to offer (not even a special case) and their products are overprized. For me they are simply not interesting, I do noone of them wish something bad or "hate" but I do not care either and will certainly buy nothing from them. I think they were "hot" to get the brand but they had (and have) no product they can credible sell (something new/innovative). Mostly companies have products but no brand (and marketing). In both cases it fails...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 27, 2012, 04:37:48 PM
Think of CommodoreUSA as a large computer shop, but with fewer products.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 05:15:27 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690675
I like the way that Barry, sorry Wildstar128 thinks that we're the crazy ones, and not someone with a type AAA+ personality disorder who thought he could muscle in on an existing community, claim to be Jesus Christ and then dictate a new direction for the Amiga that happens to walk all over the existing x86 and Linux communities.

He also apparently thinks that the Hyperion/Amiga Inc settlement has forced C-USA to lie, insult and spam.

Finally, he thinks we are upset about what Barry hasn't done, while it is actually what he has done (lies, insults and spam).

You would think that the fact that we're debating this in a thread on Amiga.org and not CommodoreAmiga.net would make the bells ring as to who has the mental problems here.  :D


LOL.... I wish because then I have the resources to acquire the IP. Sorry, I am not Barry.

To the point, put your money where your mouth is. You have no more of rights over intellectual property then 10 to 20 million Commodore owners who had first generation purchasing of Commodore products. First generation purchase: I mean, purchased from authorized Commodore distribution and had the official warranties with Commodore or at least qualified. In other words, you didn't get your first Commodore from another another customer.

As for feeling that you guys think they have any rights over the trademark with all about 10-11 full pages worth of questions that are really unrealistic claims.

What I am trying to get at is why you guys waste so many pages of questions that you already know the answer is that the your suggestions are totally useless and only serves less than a 1000 individuals worldwide. Real companies for international commercial trade of goods requires a market base of at least a million potential customers.

If you have potential customer base of 1000 individuals then you have to spend no more then $100 in R&D.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 05:29:46 PM
Quote from: Tripitaka;690676
Painful reading. Is English a second language or are you still at school?


Trip,

I guess so when it was 3:## AM at USA pacific coast time. Give it a wild guess and figure that I was up since 8:30 AM of the preceeding day.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: OlafS3 on April 27, 2012, 05:57:30 PM
"utter bull**** questions", "shut the **** up", "you guys are a buch of screwed up dellusional nut jobs" ...

Please act and communicate politely and civilised here, even on internet people should not be different to normal life or is this the way you always talk to other people?

I do not understand what you talk about between all those "ass****" phrases... We all know that there is a big outside world but Barry and his company do not serious play in this league. Selling is satisfying consumer needs. What need are they satisfying? To have a amiga-sticker on a case? People are not as stupid as some seem to think...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: tone007 on April 27, 2012, 06:45:35 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690675
I like the way that Barry, sorry Wildstar128 thinks that we're the crazy ones


Unfortunately, Wildstar really isn't Barry.

http://www.archivum.info/comp.sys.cbm/2005-11/01257/Re--c64friends-chat-today-Nov.-19.html

Another nut in Commodore/Amigaland! Who would've guessed?!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: TheDaddy on April 27, 2012, 07:21:59 PM
@Wildstar128

oooohhh...massive mistake taking on Darrin and the rest of the amiga.org community....that is going to hurt. Nice meeting you. ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: DutchinUSA on April 27, 2012, 07:37:06 PM
Guys, don't feed the troll :argue:

He/she be :insane: :crazy:

:roflmao:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 27, 2012, 09:30:16 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690659
The problem with so many of you is you are demanding CommodoreUSA to fulfill Escom's bull**** and trying to start from 1993 tech. Guess what, motorola has stopped major advancement in the 68k processor. The fastest one is the 68k coldfire and some under the dragonball name from Motorola/Freescale. It is dated and slow. 266 MHz? Um... Well overclock... 300 Mhz.

My bone to pick with the nut jobs on this forum is in nearly 20 years since the last Amiga model was introduced, would you want an Amiga for your day to day regular mainstream computer that compares with your actual paid job or even the kind of job you had got your original Amiga. How many of you got the Amiga 4000 and other power house for movie and other professional graphics work. Would that Natami or other Amiga clones even meet the scrutiny and power and capability that your work place would need today. Would it meet the needs of George Lucas and others. Lets get serious. Amiga was the graphic minicomputer workstation for the masses that can sit on your desk. That kind of professional stature and ability is exactly the kind of stuff Amiga was remembered for. A modern Amiga line must model as a premier of quality graphics with strong grahic facilities. Amiga models with wacoms and various professional graphic software suites for the sectors in professional graphics like DTP, movie & TV CGI, CAD/Arch/engineering, etc.
Actually, some of us remember the Amiga for (get this) being a really neat design in both hardware and software, not for giving Amiga owners a bigger e-penis than PC owners. I don't really care what clock speed is or isn't attained, I'd just like to see a new computer that's a worthy follow-up to what was really an amazingly elegant system for its day.

Quote
Barry was very much in place where it really was used and knows first hand what Amiga was about for much of Amiga history beyond the video games which was captured in the Amiga 500 more then anything.
So? The exact same can be said about nearly everybody else in this community. It's not like Barry was present on the mountain with Carl Sassenrath and Dave Haynie for the Transfiguration of Jay Miner. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfiguration_of_Jesus) How does this make him any more qualified to do anything Amiga-related than anybody else here?

Quote from: Wildstar128;690661
Your interest is selfish and to your own  personal gain. You don't believe anyone should buy and make money on the  brand or that they are going to be some 1 hour a month bull ****  business that does nothing. You guys don't buy new hardware.
Uh, wait, we "don't buy new hardware?" How is it that the first run of  the X1000 sold out and they're doing a second run, then? Unless you mean  we don't buy new hardware that's assembled from stock PC components  we could get for less than half the cost, perhaps?

Quote
Even then, it is hard to classify him and some of these folks  real businesses. They are supporting quasi-businesses.
What's your criteria for a "real business?"

Quote from: Wildstar128;690694
To the point, put your money where your mouth  is. You have no more of rights over intellectual property then 10 to 20  million Commodore owners who had first generation purchasing of  Commodore products.
So? Doesn't mean we're obligated to agree with or approve of the doings of any random schmoe who's shelled out to Bill McEwen.

Quote
What I am trying to get at is why you guys waste so many pages of  questions that you already know the answer is that the your suggestions  are totally useless and only serves less than a 1000 individuals  worldwide.
I'll remind you that this whole thing was Barry's idea. He asked for  questions and we gave him questions; if they weren't the questions he  wanted, that's his problem.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 10:49:43 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690725
Actually, some of us remember the Amiga for (get this) being a really neat design in both hardware and software, not for giving Amiga owners a bigger e-penis than PC owners. I don't really care what clock speed is or isn't attained, I'd just like to see a new computer that's a worthy follow-up to what was really an amazingly elegant system for its day.

So? The exact same can be said about nearly everybody else in this community. It's not like Barry was present on the mountain with Carl Sassenrath and Dave Haynie for the Transfiguration of Jay Miner. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfiguration_of_Jesus) How does this make him any more qualified to do anything Amiga-related than anybody else here?


Uh, wait, we "don't buy new hardware?" How is it that the first run of  the X1000 sold out and they're doing a second run, then? Unless you mean  we don't buy new hardware that's assembled from stock PC components  we could get for less than half the cost, perhaps?

What's your criteria for a "real business?"


So? Doesn't mean we're obligated to agree with or approve of the doings of any random schmoe who's shelled out to Bill McEwen.

I'll remind you that this whole thing was Barry's idea. He asked for  questions and we gave him questions; if they weren't the questions he  wanted, that's his problem.

First, I am not afraid the 90% of wackos with maybe 10% actually have grown up and matured somewhat.

Second, if we want to be civilized, fine. Lets go with that but seriously if you want to ask someone who is investing a bit of his or her own money as well as serious business venture capitalists then you better stop with silly notions of ressurecting antiquate technology that not even god and Jay Miner combined could compete with todays tech. Guess what, new inventions came about since then and are fully patented. They aren't sharing their golden goose with anyone unless you talk big bucks like big bucks for even the likes of Bill Gates.

Commodore USA makes more money per year then every single Commodore 8 Bit and Amiga hobbyist-business makes from sales combined. Every one of you except maybe Jim Brain loses money and every one of you can't pay yourself on any classic hardware venture.

Why? There just is not enough people using the real hardware. Many of you collected them but nearly none of you use the hardware. So what is the experience for you now? Virtual emulated hardware. Nearly implies there is a few. I am not arguing that.

The next computer "revolution" isn't going to happen for probably 60 years. 30 years to make a viable quantum processor. Another 30 years red taped by National Security Agency of the NWO - the American Global Empire of the world. So, it isn't going to be seen for long after most of you are dead or wrinkled up old men and some women.

I challenge you to come up with a serious plan for product that can be sold to hundreds of thousands of people. I challenge you in this for a product that sustains interst in the Commodore brand, new and even old technology and support.

The interesting thing is, Commodore USA has helped in slowing down the eroding members of the Commodore community. If you paid attention, you probably seen some new faces or faces from old Commodore users from the 80s that left in the late 80s and early 90s reconnecting with Commodore technology and community. Something that has in fact help to slow down the decline.

However, old tech like the c64 and all of the classic Amiga models even with the best PPC cards ever made are really not up to the task of contemporary computing in any viable way.

I'll ask you to a task, design a 4500 sq.ft. House, two stories and prepare construction documents with visual rendering, mass model in a google earth visualization, I would need foundation plans, wall plans with proper national cad standards (US) in US measurements, roof plans, framing plan and door and window schedules. All the Construction document information must meet the following plan standards on 24x36 sheets and be distributed in PDF format. The CAD files must be distributed in Google Sketchup, .dwg files (autocad 2006 and after compatible) and Archicad/revit formats of the IFC formats supported by Revit and ArchiCad and other BIM tools.

Plan standards - http://ncbdc.com/plan_standards.htm

They shall be done in 30 days. I want to see that done all on the ol' Amiga PPC computers.

We can do that on Windows, Linux (COS-V included), MacOS X but are your Amiga system efficiently up to the task to meet the interoperability of various consultants tool chains as well as your own as the lead design professional.

I understand this isn't how you use the computer but Amiga and Commodore 8 bit were designed for serious use at their time. The demand of what computers are expected to do has changed alot. We now have sophisticated networking interoperability.

Commodore USA is looking for products that will serve as primary use like your primary computer. They aren't looking at selling products that would be used part-time. Computers are a tool.

The majority of the people, computer is an investment. As in "for work and for play". The point is accurate to what computers are suppose to be used for work as well as for entertainment. It wasn't manufactured or produced to be desk decoration.

It is like asking Ford to produce model T's for only a cople hundred people a decade just so they are garage decoration. Seriously, it isn't going to happen unless there is ROI.

Most of you obviously don't run any real or serious business of any kind. If you had, you guys would not waste someone's who is running an actual business with no viable business plan.

Have or does any of you actually work for a serious company with lead managing roles of projects and project proposals. Try being more serious next time with a real proposal with seious investigation on return on investment.

Commodore USA is a business not a hobby shop.

I am not saying if I agree with Barry on everything. I don't but at least there is something.

To the dumbass who made a comment about forgetting a fan and referencing that person's 12 year old. geez, you know, that 12 year old had a captive instruction as in the child is doing what you tell the child to do vs. Doing anything on his or her own or on any real full education on computer science. The child is just getting one person's perspective and view.

Factors not considered might be.... The low power usage modes and subsequent heat emissions of the hardware. Netbook hardware without high power draw cpu? Wow....

Each cpu has a certain amount of energy efficiency of input energy and loss emitted as heat due to inefficiency. That is back to basic physics 101. It might not need a fan in the c64x. Given the bulky size and air space and energy efficiency of board chips and their thermal emission. If you done the research, it probably not that big an issue.

I read alot of emotional b.s. Nonsense throughout this thread.

I wish you guys grow up somewhat. Especially the ones demanding the most ridiculous claims.

You can prop yourselves like a bunch of walking phallics or you can provide reasonable solutions that makes sense in a practical functional business.

CMD left over a decade ago. That was the last real business supporting Commodore 8 bit from a development standpoint. jens is close and so is some but they are more quasi-business and hobby. Jens, I am not claiming your skill as hobbyist but your Commodore/Amiga business is somewhere between full fledge business and a hobby using your professional knowledge in hardware engineering but I doubt you are naive to make your living on Commodore and Amiga these days.

My point for the rest of you, how long would great guys like Jens and Jim and others be able to do this and to what extent. I am sure some of these guys could use some degree of support financially to offset some of their hard labor cost. I think that maybe an option if Barry considers it and if it is done in a manner acceptable to all parties.

Some of that is reasonable but that may or may not be out of Commodore USA, LLC. Business budget but maybe out of some personal money. The biggest thing is, would both sides be willing to come to the table in a civil manner with intelligent and professional quality planning.

Simply put, if you guys just knock off the silly crap then great. If you were employees and I was the CEO and I got this kind of response.... It would be hard pressed for me to not give most of you the pink slip.

PS: I am not one to sugar coat my point that much.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 27, 2012, 10:55:08 PM
But if it's all big business, why bother?

Dell will sell me a much cheaper PC, I can use my employee discount with them, I can install the exact same emulator stuff there and I can install any version of linux I want anyways.
I can go to System 76 and get a pre-installed and tested linux PC, and still pay less money.

If I am a serious computer user, why on earth would I invest in "commodore" in 2012?



You can play big business or you can play hobby, but you don't get to do it both ways.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 27, 2012, 11:02:00 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690694
LOL.... I wish because then I have the resources to acquire the IP. Sorry, I am not Barry.


Well your posting style at 3am after a night on the town exactly matches Barry's style at midday after a cup of coffee.  An easy mistake to make.  ;)

Quote
To the point, put your money where your mouth is. You have no more of rights over intellectual property then 10 to 20 million Commodore owners who had first generation purchasing of Commodore products. First generation purchase: I mean, purchased from authorized Commodore distribution and had the official warranties with Commodore or at least qualified. In other words, you didn't get your first Commodore from another another customer.


I have put my money where my mouth is.  Over the last couple of years I've purchased Keyrahs, RTG cards, SDFFs, card readers, Amiga/C64 Forever, a Chameleon64, a C-One, a Minimig and ARM board, an FPGA Aracde and pre-ordered an X1000.

What have you done?

I've bought several PCs too, but I got them from HP.  More powerful than C-USA can do and a fraction of the price.  My C64 Forever and Amiga Forever still run on them though.

Quote
As for feeling that you guys think they have any rights over the trademark with all about 10-11 full pages worth of questions that are really unrealistic claims.


Yeah, expecting Barry to just bugger off and sell some PCs is unrealistic.  However, we live in hope.

Quote
What I am trying to get at is why you guys waste so many pages of questions that you already know the answer is that the your suggestions are totally useless and only serves less than a 1000 individuals worldwide. Real companies for international commercial trade of goods requires a market base of at least a million potential customers.


If this was "wasting pages" then we would be posting on CommodoreAmiga.net.  This is the site we have all used for years to discuss the Amiga variations.  C-USA insist on coming here and posting rubbish and as we're here we feel the need to respond.  If they're not interested in what we think then they should stop posting here.  They keep telling us we're not their target customers so why on Earth do they keep coming back?

Quote
If you have potential customer base of 1000 individuals then you have to spend no more then $100 in R&D.


Better than that, I don't need to spend a penny on R&D because others (MikeJ, aCube, Hyperion, Indivision, etc) are already doing it and have been for years.  I just by the finished products as I pointed out above.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM
Gotcha.

You are selling modern PC's branded as Amiga's.  We understand that, we all read Barry's Q & A.  We don't need the business school lecture on financial viability, C-USA has stated they will not be supporting the "purist" market at all.  What's left to discuss?  I thought all the fanboys would be off selling these to people that actually CARE.  In your eyes, you might as well be trying to sell glasses of water to drowning men.  

We get it.  We're the guys stuck in the past, the guys that "just don't understand" in your view.  Why you still here?  How much bad press does one company need?

Once again, we aren't interested.  If we wanted commodity PC's, we'd build our own or buy them from Dell or Best Buy.

I can buy the exact same case as the Amiga Mini for $50 tops any day of the week and assemble it with similar components for far less money if that is the footprint of PC that I want.  Not everyone is capable of that, and I recommend you preach to the proper choir, namely your target market.  We are not your target market.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 11:15:13 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690725
Actually, some of us remember the Amiga for (get this) being a really neat design in both hardware and software, not for giving Amiga owners a bigger e-penis than PC owners. I don't really care what clock speed is or isn't attained, I'd just like to see a new computer that's a worthy follow-up to what was really an amazingly elegant system for its day.

So? The exact same can be said about nearly everybody else in this community. It's not like Barry was present on the mountain with Carl Sassenrath and Dave Haynie for the Transfiguration of Jay Miner. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfiguration_of_Jesus) How does this make him any more qualified to do anything Amiga-related than anybody else here?


Uh, wait, we "don't buy new hardware?" How is it that the first run of  the X1000 sold out and they're doing a second run, then? Unless you mean  we don't buy new hardware that's assembled from stock PC components  we could get for less than half the cost, perhaps?

What's your criteria for a "real business?"


So? Doesn't mean we're obligated to agree with or approve of the doings of any random schmoe who's shelled out to Bill McEwen.

I'll remind you that this whole thing was Barry's idea. He asked for  questions and we gave him questions; if they weren't the questions he  wanted, that's his problem.


To your specific questions...

What is a criteria for a real business ? A real business is one that provides goods and/or services. A real business is also one that operates on the basis of making a profit. A real business is one that professionally evaluates their investments and the return on investments. A real business is one that is about making a living for the owners and where they have employees, provide appropriate wages and salaries to their employees. It is in the same sense as a serious, real job that you take seriously for your living.

A real business is not one that is just for donating your time for joy. Programming for free and using pseudo-business names.... Not real. Fake and just for fun vs. Having any serious backbone and structure. Real Businesses doesn't have to be boring but they do have to be for serious intent. They have to be more then just a weekend jerking off time.

It is subjective and objective. There is objective framework of a business that is for real the. One that is not b.s.ing and nothing. There is some degree of subjective degree.

I think you are twisting the details. In any case, I am not going to waist my time arguing it. It is fair to ask questions but if you are going to be taken seriously use your good judgment in asking questions that isn't stupid.

Barry is a little loose with his mouth sometimes in how he phrases things. If it was me, I would have phrased it with a little more tighter phrasing such as serious, legitimate and sensible questions worthy of responding and worthy of asking and command serious proposals with some serious data to back your proposal if you propose something.

Like business. If I was Barry, I would command that if you want Commodore USA to go about a proposal then bring up a serious proposal with supporting data and be ready for serious critique of the proposal. Where is the money? What is the ROI? Did you plan for media and publications costs for advertising product to get it known. How many are demanding such.

Barry is the "Jack Tramiel" of Commodore USA. Try proposing proposals as if you were proposing to Jack Tramiel. You might get more traction with your proposals, guys.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 11:16:43 PM
Quote from: Duce;690734
Gotcha.

You are selling modern PC's branded as Amiga's.  We understand that, we all read Barry's Q & A.  We don't need the business school lecture on financial viability, C-USA has stated they will not be supporting the "purist" market at all.  What's left to discuss?  I thought all the fanboys would be off selling these to people that actually CARE.  In your eyes, you might as well be trying to sell glasses of water to drowning men.  

We get it.  We're the guys stuck in the past, the guys that "just don't understand" in your view.  Why you still here?  How much bad press does one company need?

Once again, we aren't interested.  If we wanted commodity PC's, we'd build our own or buy them from Dell or Best Buy.

I can buy the exact same case as the Amiga Mini for $50 tops any day of the week and assemble it with similar components for far less money if that is the footprint of PC that I want.  Not everyone is capable of that, and I recommend you preach to the proper choir, namely your target market.  We are not your target market.

I'm not selling them. In addition, you might want to know how business operates if you suggest or propose ideas for someone to invest their money.

That would be a good start for you guys. Take some courses in business and run a business.

It might do you some good in your life as well.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 27, 2012, 11:17:39 PM
No one has proposed anything to Commodore USA.  The "Challenge to the Community" was from them, not us.  Barry answered a Q & A session on his own time.

A comparison to Tramiel isn't an endearing comparison in the least.

EDIT:  If you aren't selling them, what exactly do you want?  To change our minds?

This is Amiga.org.  We use Amiga computers.  You may find that outdated and old, but she's the facts, man.  My SAM 440 sits right beside my 4 ghz, 32 GB dual 590 GTX gaming rig.  I'm building up an A1200.  I'll be buying an FPGA Arcade.  That may shock you in this day and age, but there's a lot of people like me here, frittering around with old hardware.  It *is* Amiga.org, after all.

I'm not sure what your motive is for being here, seems all you have done is insult people and patronized them.  What part of "we aren't your target market" is not understandable?  What part of "maybe you guys should take business courses" makes any sense, when people are here to enjoy CLASSIC and NG Amiga systems - not Linux PC's?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 27, 2012, 11:20:44 PM
@Wildstar128

Do you consider Amiga Inc a serious business?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 27, 2012, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690731
Lets go with that but seriously if you want to ask someone who is investing a bit of his or her own money as well as serious business venture capitalists then you better stop with silly notions of ressurecting antiquate technology that not even god and Jay Miner combined could compete with todays tech. Guess what, new inventions came about since then and are fully patented. They aren't sharing their golden goose with anyone unless you talk big bucks like big bucks for even the likes of Bill Gates.
I agree completely. The Amiga can't compete in the cutthroat, pure-commodity modern PC market. (Which is why it's silly to put together a $1300 PC, label it "Amiga," and charge $2500 for it.) But who says it has to? The last time the Amiga was really competing for general personal-computer market share (let alone dominance) was some time around 1990 - since then it's been an entirely separate and self-contained market. The people buying Amiga today are buying it because they like it for what it is, not because they're looking for a modern PC. Suggesting that producing new Amiga-based systems is stupid because they can't compete with modern PCs is like saying Kawasaki should get out of the motorcycle business because their bikes can't carry as much as a Chevy Suburban or go as fast as a Ferrari.

Quote
Commodore USA makes more money per year then every single Commodore 8 Bit and Amiga hobbyist-business makes from sales combined. Every one of you except maybe Jim Brain loses money
Got any numbers to back that claim up? (Particularily considering they've only had their main product line available for about a year?)

Quote
The next computer "revolution" isn't going to happen for probably 60 years. 30 years to make a viable quantum processor. Another 30 years red taped by National Security Agency of the NWO - the American Global Empire of the world. So, it isn't going to be seen for long after most of you are dead or wrinkled up old men and some women.
...wha...? What does this have to do with anything at all?

Quote
I challenge you to come up with a serious plan for product that can be sold to hundreds of thousands of people. I challenge you in this for a product that sustains interst in the Commodore brand, new and even old technology and support.
Why? Hundreds of thousands of people aren't going to buy Amiga, no matter what we do. That time has passed. If we can't take back the market, why settle for mediocre cloning of what the industry is already doing when we could be doing something interesting?

Quote
Most of you obviously don't run any real or serious business of any kind. If you had, you guys would not waste someone's who is running an actual business with no viable business plan.
I'm still not clear on how producing PC clones at X1000 prices that no sane person would ever buy and hoping that a brand name rented from Uncle Bill will sell it counts as real/serious/actual business.

Quote
Simply put, if you guys just knock off the silly crap then great. If you were employees and I was the CEO and I got this kind of response.... It would be hard pressed for me to not give most of you the pink slip.
Are we employees? Do we get paid for doing things for you or Barry? If not, I see precious little reason to care whether you or he are made unhappy by our disapproval.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 27, 2012, 11:36:04 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690735
What is a criteria for a real business ? A real business is one that provides goods and/or services.
Individual Computers does that. Amigakit does that. Softhut does that. Vesalia does that.

Quote
A real business is also one that operates on the basis of making a profit.
Amigakit does that. Softhut does that. Vesalia does that. (I think Individual Computers does that, but Jens can feel free to correct me if he's only breaking even.)

Quote
A real business is one that professionally evaluates their investments and the return on investments.
Amigakit does that. Softhut does that. Vesalia does that. (I don't know if  Individual Computers does that.)
 
Quote
A real business is one that is about making a living for the owners and where they have employees, provide appropriate wages and salaries to their employees. It is in the same sense as a serious, real job that you take seriously for your living.
Given that CUSA was started on the back of Barry's furniture business and does not disclose the number or salary of its employees, how do you know they meet this criteria?

Quote
A real business is not one that is just for donating your time for joy. Programming for free and using pseudo-business names.... Not real. Fake and just for fun vs. Having any serious backbone and structure. Real Businesses doesn't have to be boring but they do have to be for serious intent. They have to be more then just a weekend jerking off time.
Given that CUSA does not disclose the details of its financials and whether the company is self-supporting, how do you know they meet this criteria?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 11:42:04 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690733
Well your posting style at 3am after a night on the town exactly matches Barry's style at midday after a cup of coffee.  An easy mistake to make.  ;)



I have put my money where my mouth is.  Over the last couple of years I've purchased Keyrahs, RTG cards, SDFFs, card readers, Amiga/C64 Forever, a Chameleon64, a C-One, a Minimig and ARM board, an FPGA Aracde and pre-ordered an X1000.

What have you done?

I've bought several PCs too, but I got them from HP.  More powerful than C-USA can do and a fraction of the price.  My C64 Forever and Amiga Forever still run on them though.



Yeah, expecting Barry to just bugger off and sell some PCs is unrealistic.  However, we live in hope.



If this was "wasting pages" then we would be posting on CommodoreAmiga.net.  This is the site we have all used for years to discuss the Amiga variations.  C-USA insist on coming here and posting rubbish and as we're here we feel the need to respond.  If they're not interested in what we think then they should stop posting here.  They keep telling us we're not their target customers so why on Earth do they keep coming back?



Better than that, I don't need to spend a penny on R&D because others (MikeJ, aCube, Hyperion, Indivision, etc) are already doing it and have been for years.  I just by the finished products as I pointed out above.


It might not have been in the last couple of years but in the past 20-30 years, I bought commodore 64s (6502 based ones not the 64x), Vic-20s, c-128, plus/4, cmd fd-2000, jiffydos, amiga 500 (2), amiga 1200 (well, got that one for free), Commodore PC-10, C-One, C64DTV and Hummer. I bought several peripherals, light pens, printers, etc.

In addition, I have been involved in the Commodore community for some time now. I am not against you guys using the old hardware but by and large, most of you don't buy in sufficient volume for sustaining businesses. Why do you think CMD left?

Do you think CMD scale or larger hardware developer business can be a sustainable business.

I'll ask you a serious question, would any of you buy new commodore 64 software on the various peripherals like maybe an intelligent drive that runs on ethernet and you use the various ethernet modules to load the software off of.

Basically a simply pico-itx board, some drives and NIC and just hook it into the network and it can be used on classic and new Commodore/Amiga branded computer products.

Would you guys support such hw with a DVD or Blu-Ray Burner, HD and have it as a peripheral that you can have more advance hardware and software on large media that you can use. Would you guys support something like that?

The hw isn't that important per se. Just that is provide mass media inexpensively through your existing software. If we can support something like MMC/SD media for a front-end firmware to communicate to such external devices and load software.... Like a front end DOS commands that would communicate to "network devices".

Would you support such?

This can be C= 8 bit and classic Amiga and in principle any of the PPC. There are other hw issues but I'll leave it at that as concept and the nuts & bolts for later.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 11:44:43 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;690738
@Wildstar128

Do you consider Amiga Inc a serious business?


They spent the money on purchasing the IP. As for serious business, not recently but we have laws and they own the rights. That is another debate. Lets not go into that one... It is a distraction.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 27, 2012, 11:51:52 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690740
Individual Computers does that. Amigakit does that. Softhut does that. Vesalia does that.


Amigakit does that. Softhut does that. Vesalia does that. (I think Individual Computers does that, but Jens can feel free to correct me if he's only breaking even.)


Amigakit does that. Softhut does that. Vesalia does that. (I don't know if  Individual Computers does that.)
 

Given that CUSA was started on the back of Barry's furniture business and does not disclose the number or salary of its employees, how do you know they meet this criteria?


Given that CUSA does not disclose the details of its financials and whether the company is self-supporting, how do you know they meet this criteria?

Ok, softhut is a serious business and vesalia and Amigakit. Ok fair enough. However, small retail business still survive but even fewer are hardware developer or producer business. That is what is harder. Hardware producers like CommodoreUSA involve more overhead than retailers but they don't have the extent of R&D investment for designing custom hardware. The CMDs and most custom hw developers are more or less out of the scene except a few like Jens but I doubt he really makes profit as he mainly is making his material cost per unit but not his actual time's worth. I don't think he broke even on Chameleon or C-One and several others products from the sales. Then, jens can make the corrections so guys don't take what I said about him as fact.

As for any of them..... I don't think any of them discloses their employer or business costs. That is none of our business anyway.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 27, 2012, 11:52:44 PM
What did they "develop" other than a case?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 12:01:54 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690746
Ok, softhut is a serious business and vesalia and Amigakit. Ok fair enough. However, small retail business still survive but even fewer are hardware developer or producer business. That is what is harder. Hardware producers like CommodoreUSA involve more overhead than retailers but they don't have the extent of R&D investment for designing custom hardware.
They don't produce anything. They put together PCs out of commodity parts and have, on one occasion, gone so far as to purchase injection-molded cases from a factory that does custom molding.

Quote
As for any of them..... I don't think any of them discloses their employer or business costs. That is none of our business anyway.
I agree that they're not obligated to tell us, but that doesn't answer the question of how you know that CUSA even meets your own stated criteria.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 12:28:21 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690739
I agree completely. The Amiga can't compete in the cutthroat, pure-commodity modern PC market. (Which is why it's silly to put together a $1300 PC, label it "Amiga," and charge $2500 for it.) But who says it has to? The last time the Amiga was really competing for general personal-computer market share (let alone dominance) was some time around 1990 - since then it's been an entirely separate and self-contained market. The people buying Amiga today are buying it because they like it for what it is, not because they're looking for a modern PC. Suggesting that producing new Amiga-based systems is stupid because they can't compete with modern PCs is like saying Kawasaki should get out of the motorcycle business because their bikes can't carry as much as a Chevy Suburban or go as fast as a Ferrari.

Got any numbers to back that claim up? (Particularily considering they've only had their main product line available for about a year?)

...wha...? What does this have to do with anything at all?

Why? Hundreds of thousands of people aren't going to buy Amiga, no matter what we do. That time has passed. If we can't take back the market, why settle for mediocre cloning of what the industry is already doing when we could be doing something interesting?

I'm still not clear on how producing PC clones at X1000 prices that no sane person would ever buy and hoping that a brand name rented from Uncle Bill will sell it counts as real/serious/actual business.

Are we employees? Do we get paid for doing things for you or Barry? If not, I see precious little reason to care whether you or he are made unhappy by our disapproval.

I probably can look at some numbers that were released and figure the money cost and extrapolate gross revenues from sales prices. However, I can't say it is the totals but I can say they they are closer to CMD in their early to mid 90s days given the larger venue.

Jens, jim brain and most of the hw developer 'businesses' don't add up in gross revenues.

How does Amiga Mini sell.... Well... At the pricing... I can guess it would sell when it has an i7 quad core processor and 16 GB RAM and high end GPUs is about twice the clock rate, twice the number of cores and and faster sysyem bus for DDR3 not DDR2 memory and SATA3 sockets... And you have an OS that has more mainstream software immediately functional right from get go.

The OS has a big part to do with whether the product has commercial viability in the mainstream. Linux is strong and viable and in fact Linus Torvald started with Commodore and I suspect he was strongly influenced by C64, Amiga and other system over the years.

There is no sense reinventing the wheel in OS matters or starting with something with little real software development in the application area in 20 years. There is plenty of developer tools and art paint tools and some vector graphic tools but not much beyond what a few hundred active amiga commuity demands or produces for themselves which is maybe a few dozen sw devs with a few interest areas and that was the software they got.

The biggest problem with AmigaOS is it lacks mainstream viability because there isn't the apps and the Amiga operating system is largely outdated. Mainstream Computer users don't want to program software. There is little interest in sw developing. Linux is reasonably sensible in that it not only has software developers and companies already on the platform, there is also a vast array of commercial grade software for almost everyone. The only lacking area is MMORPG but even then, not an issue as the developers actually use Linux machines but simply target development of their games to Windows and it is easy enough to make it Linux or Mac or they can simply multiboot and then run it. It is already there.

People don't have to wait days, weeks or months or years waiting for some dev to develop at their snail ass pace. There is even JOBS for Linux. That is the point. People aren't going to spend have a second to consider your product if your product doesn't serve their needs out of book or a simple online purchase oft with immediate download. They aren't going to wait years for someone to get something done.

Even if you buy your own PC, you can download COS-V and have a decent linux distro with the C= flavor from get go if you felt like it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 12:38:40 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690748
They don't produce anything. They put together PCs out of commodity parts and have, on one occasion, gone so far as to purchase injection-molded cases from a factory that does custom molding.


I agree that they're not obligated to tell us, but that doesn't answer the question of how you know that CUSA even meets your own stated criteria.


Ok, semantics.... I was using produce to differentiate from develop. They produce just as much as many of the PC computer brands that don't actually produce the motherboard themselves but get special OEM boards for their product and assemble into their own cases.

Dell doesn't even manufacturer their motherboards. So producing in the sense of a complete product package. Just like a car producer that uses a chassis from on manufactuerer, engine of another and just produce their on body and cosmetics.

Lets put it like this, they don't absolutely have to have employees but when they have, they pay them. As far as I know, Leo is an employee and is paid. If he wasn't, I would think he be gone. They have people that work at the communication. As a company with employees, you must pay your employees. I am sure it can be ascertained under public information requests through the proper government entities and get the picture.

Having employees is not an absolute to my standard. If that was misunderstood, I apologize for not being clear enough.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 28, 2012, 12:47:57 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690696
Trip,

I guess so when it was 3:## AM at USA pacific coast time. Give it a wild guess and figure that I was up since 8:30 AM of the preceeding day.


Fair enough, we all have bad days. I still think CUSA is an irrelevance as far as anything Amiga is concerned. They have the name but none of the spirit.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 12:50:08 AM
Quote from: runequester;690747
What did they "develop" other than a case?


Lets put it blunt, you wouldn't make anything custom remotely competitive in mainstream without great expense. The hw platform wars in the mainstream computer market is over. It is completely x86. Intel won. PPC, ARM, and everyone else lost. It is like the vhs winning out over beta. Intel is the ISA for mainstream computers. Apple was the last company of mainstream computers to use PPC and they dropped it. This means, intel ISA is the architecture of today and for the foreseeable future until quantum computing comes out.

PPC lost that market just as the 65xx did and 65xx uses the embedded devices market.

Lets be serious.

When it comes to mainstream computers:
You can have any flavor of cpu as long as it is x86 ISA platform.

You can love or hat x86 but that is what you got now.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 28, 2012, 12:52:33 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690756
Lets put it blunt, you wouldn't make anything custom remotely competitive in mainstream without great expense. The hw platform wars in the mainstream computer market is over. It is completely x86. Intel won. PPC, ARM, and everyone else lost. It is like the vhs winning out over beta. Intel is the ISA for mainstream computers. Apple was the last company of mainstream computers to use PPC and they dropped it. This means, intel ISA is the architecture of today and for the foreseeable future until quantum computing comes out.

PPC lost that market just as the 65xx did and 65xx uses the embedded devices market.

Lets be serious.

When it comes to mainstream computers:
You can have any flavor of cpu as long as it is x86 ISA platform.

You can love or hat x86 but that is what you got now.


I know this is probably heresy to the hardcore amiga guys, but I actually don't care about the processor other than "fast or slow". Im not a programmer at all, so I have no real idea what the differences really are.

My question was.. what did CUSA develop, that anyone else have not done?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 12:58:11 AM
Quote from: Tripitaka;690755
Fair enough, we all have bad days. I still think CUSA is an irrelevance as far as anything Amiga is concerned. They have the name but none of the spirit.


I am not going to argue on that point as it isn't needed and is simply a point of view. I agree it doesn't have direct relevence with Classic Amiga platform. Just as much as modern mac has to 68k Mac.

I do believe they can capture some of the Amiga essence. Now, lets take a look at the underlying framework of Amiga kernal. Isn't it some sort of framework built off of UNIX to some degree but certainly divergent in a massive way.

We can look into the detailed history of the Amiga OS development history at the beginning.

It just might have something to do with that baseline which Linux is also derived from.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 28, 2012, 01:00:41 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690756
Lets put it blunt, you wouldn't make anything custom remotely competitive in mainstream without great expense. The hw platform wars in the mainstream computer market is over. It is completely x86. Intel won. PPC, ARM, and everyone else lost.

You can love or hat x86 but that is what you got now.


I was not aware that I had to love or hat a processor. Over 1 million ARM based products sell per day. A CommodoreUSA Amiga that can't even run any Amiga software (No Amiga Forever included) is a none event. What's in it for Amiga fans?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 01:02:16 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690736
I'm not selling them. In addition, you might want to know how business operates if you suggest or propose ideas for someone to invest their money.

That would be a good start for you guys. Take some courses in business and run a business.

It might do you some good in your life as well.


Just for the record, I don't need you to tell me how to run a business or to go on a course.  I own my own company and I'm doing very well thank you.

You need to tell C-USA how to run a company and to go on a business course because computers do not equal furniture.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 01:04:42 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690741
I'll ask you a serious question, would any of you buy new commodore 64 software on the various peripherals like maybe an intelligent drive that runs on ethernet and you use the various ethernet modules to load the software off of.


I ordered a PETDISK for my CBM 8032 last week if that helps.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 01:07:36 AM
Quote from: runequester;690757
I know this is probably heresy to the hardcore amiga guys, but I actually don't care about the processor other than "fast or slow". Im not a programmer at all, so I have no real idea what the differences really are.

My question was.. what did CUSA develop, that anyone else have not done?


I can't say that they done anything that anyone else couldn't do. I would say that they had done some customize scripting in the COS-V and all but lets keep in mind that Commodore USA is only just beginning. Commodore business machines was well established by 1975 and 1980s. They had 20 years. So, it would be difficult to get the more advance and more custom UI and other features to further customize COS-V into something with its own flavor. Developing a desktop environment that is totally custom would require R&D.

If you are interested and have some ideas and skills for a custom desktop environment... Then maybe that would be something to consider that is revolutionary but functional and intuitive.

It is possible to capture that spirit in a way that Amiga did in 1984.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 01:13:42 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690761
Just for the record, I don't need you to tell me how to run a business or to go on a course.  I own my own company and I'm doing very well thank you.

You need to tell C-USA how to run a company and to go on a business course because computers do not equal furniture.


Business is simply about selling a product that people would use at a fair price. Jack Tramiel did quite well with that philosophy.

Of course it isn't furniture but Barry been in business with cable companies and more for some time. I have talked to him before. Darrin, I don't work for CommodoreUSA. I am independent in that regard but I may certainly have good enough relations That he might consider listening to the thoughts and then decide. I am not promising anything.

I been done such roads before.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 28, 2012, 01:16:54 AM
Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 01:24:13 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690762
I ordered a PETDISK for my CBM 8032 last week if that helps.


Alright, I would want to have an idea of price and media its on. On one end, I would have to consider media suitability and availability.

I know floppy disks are getting hard to come by.

MicroSD, MMC/SD would be the ideal medium now. Alright, so, that means software on such would make a good media target. Of course, at cost plus some amount.

I like the PETDisk idea and maybe cover also IEC and perhaps generic ethernet could be pulled off for other systems.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Akiko on April 28, 2012, 01:24:52 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;690766
Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???


Which reminds me, wonder whatever happened that middleman fellow?!
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;690766
Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???

That is because CommodoreUSA doesn't have large number permanent employees. In addition, I don't have anything against them and I think they are serving some benefit in the long run indirectly. The reactions by some have been way over done and even to a point, uncalled for.

CommodoreUSA has some good products if its features suitably suits your needs.

I am not necessarily a fan but I am not against working with them. Note: I said 'with' not 'for'.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: haywirepc on April 28, 2012, 01:46:55 AM
Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???

because barry is trying to convince everyone its not him.

The shill accounts are ridiculous. Someone should track his ip and nail him on those lies too.

wildstar is a great example. 26 posts, all of them pro CUSA.
Na, its not a shill account. Yeah right.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 01:48:44 AM
Let me get this:

New guy comes in, tells us all we're a bunch of dottering old farts wasting our time on our old computer hobbies.  x86 is the FUTURE!  CHANGE NOW OR DIE!
We've heard that for nearly 20 years, Skip.  It's old hat.

Banters back and forth, insulting people telling them they need business training to "understand".  We don't need business training to have fun with a hobby, Champ.  Claims no affiliation with C-USA in every post - not that anyone asked.

Things come full circle, he's now an enterprising up and coming dude wanting to work with C-USA and the retro scene and provide us what we want, after he for the better part of the day called you all *******ed idiots (or worse).  He's now all ears on how to make our lives better, and suddenly a big wig in the world.  Still with no C-USA affiliation.

This place is getting worse by the minute.  Very little is anything Amiga related, and mods seem completely driven by pageviews or something.

Enjoy your CommodoreUSA-Amiga.org ****box, boys.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 02:03:40 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690765
Business is simply about selling a product that people would use at a fair price. Jack Tramiel did quite well with that philosophy.

Of course it isn't furniture but Barry been in business with cable companies and more for some time. I have talked to him before. Darrin, I don't work for CommodoreUSA. I am independent in that regard but I may certainly have good enough relations That he might consider listening to the thoughts and then decide. I am not promising anything.

I been done such roads before.


Yeah, I've seen his resume.  Cable companies have captive markets.  This is entirely different and his approach is all wrong.  I've talked to him before via PMs and frankly he should have kept himself in the shadows right from the start, picked a good PR guy, done some research and finally TOLD THE TRUTH.

He's not going to listen to anything you say.  He has a major personality disorder with has become obviously clear.  He might be able to bully his staff by screaming at them, but he is out of his league here.

As for your "good relations" with him, that will only last until you tell him "no".  Don't fall for it.  As long as you stroke his ego then he'll keep you around, but once he has no more use for you then you're gone.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 02:04:25 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;690766
Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???


Legal Liabilty probably.

That plus Barry told them to say that.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Middleman on April 28, 2012, 02:06:11 AM
Quote from: Akiko;690768
Which reminds me, wonder whatever happened that middleman fellow?!


Talking behind my back eh? Don't worry, I'm right here! :p

Hi folks,

Sorry, but I've been away for a while (call it my personal break away from forums/anything Commodore-related if you will - I think I suffered burnout from read the last discussion), so haven't really seen what's happened. Just catching up now and reading up on Barry's and everyone else's answers....


Here are my thoughts on the subject:

1) I think Barry has given a fair and balanced interview. He is being pretty honest here IMHO and is hiding nothing here save any legal trade agreements they have with their business partners AFAIK….

2) He is being realistic about the market situation and for the company in general - that for a reborn Commodore to survive, it has to make products that are relevant to the market and on-par tech wise with the best that is out there. Being Linux and Windows-compatible is one way to secure that future (or at least the funds for that future). Though not agreeing with 'legacy Amiga purists' going the x86 route now is the most logically sound route for the company at present.

3) Had made some points which are very logical from a business perspective (which again may upset some Amiga fans here) but is the truth. Computers have come a long way since the Amiga days of producing customized chips, and the parts today are pretty much commoditized. To go against what the general market wants is financial suicide.

4) interesting points have been made in regards to how 'he sees' the Amiga brand, namely that it is a performance brand, and the old ideas were simply 'a concept'. In this day and age somehow he is right about it I feel….you don't see people using customized chipsets anymore save retro sites like A.org…..

To be fair, after looking at the answers after his reply, I think the Amiga community in general I think is being too harsh on his company, and being too pessimistic about certain things a little too early. He has said he is a small company slowly working to rebuild the Commodore and Amiga brands. As  Leo has mentioned many times before Rome wasn't built in a day…..

CUSA I believe is doing things right - it's not doing anything 'wrong' except maybe have slightly more expensive offerings in some product lines to Apple? But even then it's coming down cheap.
I just heard they launched the new Vic Mini the other day….and that's a completely new product to the last one (which I remembered was similar to the Amiga Mini)….
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 02:10:36 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690767
Alright, I would want to have an idea of price and media its on. On one end, I would have to consider media suitability and availability.

I know floppy disks are getting hard to come by.

MicroSD, MMC/SD would be the ideal medium now. Alright, so, that means software on such would make a good media target. Of course, at cost plus some amount.

I like the PETDisk idea and maybe cover also IEC and perhaps generic ethernet could be pulled off for other systems.


Just tell him to produce a batch of Minimigs (v2.0) in a cheap plastic case (2 layers of plastic parted with spacers and an engraved logo), a pre-loaded SD card with ROM images, Workbench, some ADF games and a 3.1 Hard File and put it on the market for Xmas.  He could even sell AFD games from his "App Store" if he ever gets a Webmaster capable of creating it.

A quick, easy project.  The hardware designs are Open Source, the FPGA code is Open Source, he has the rights to the ROMs and Workbench and the case could be made by a McEmployee on minimim wage.

Of course he was told this right at the start and never listened.  He'd rather sell us overpriced PCs loaded with Linux and hope that we don't notice.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 02:10:57 AM
They are a Linux PC vendor selling x86 boxes.  This is Amiga.org.

Jesus Christ why can't people understand this just isn't relevant here?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 02:17:09 AM
Quote from: Middleman;690780
To be fair, after looking at the answers after his reply, I think the Amiga community in general I think is being too harsh on his company, and being too pessimistic about certain things a little too early. He has said he is a small company slowly working to rebuild the Commodore and Amiga brands. As  Leo has mentioned many times before Rome wasn't built in a day…..

CUSA I believe is doing things right - it's not doing anything 'wrong' except maybe have slightly more expensive offerings in some product lines to Apple? But even then it's coming down cheap.
I just heard they launched the new Vic Mini the other day….and that's a completely new product to the last one (which I remembered was similar to the Amiga Mini)….


...and as if by magic, the Shopkeeper appeared...

To be fair, you're not paying any attention and just reading of a script that Barry gave you.

The VIC-Mini in case you missed it is a old machine, made for years by someone else, rebadged and stuck in a C-USA box.  We've already seen links to the original website and the 50% lower prices they used to charge (retail) if you ordered from them directly.

The smoke and mirrors is endless.

I can't wait for the next C-USA drone to show up and tell us how wonderfull Barry is.  Perhaps his bank manger, golf partner or pool boy might like to drop in for a while.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 02:17:58 AM
Quote from: Duce;690782
They are a Linux PC vendor selling x86 boxes.  This is Amiga.org.

Jesus Christ why can't people understand this just isn't relevant here?


They do understand it.  They're paid to ignore it.  ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 28, 2012, 02:19:31 AM
Quote from: Duce;690782
They are a Linux PC vendor selling x86 boxes.  This is Amiga.org.

Jesus Christ why can't people understand this just isn't relevant here?

You make a valid point. CUSA may have the names but beyond that they have nothing else to offer, unless your in the market for another PC. That being the case, what relevance is that to A.org?

I think after this post I'm just going to join those not posting on any CUSA threads and wait for CUSA to go away.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 02:23:09 AM
Quote from: Tripitaka;690785
I think after this post I'm just going to join those not posting on any CUSA threads and wait for CUSA to go away.


That's what they want.  If they can bore us to death then they can make lots of new threads, fill them with positive "Barry approved" content from sponsored accounts and hope that they'll show up at the top of any Google search.

It is like World War One, they're hoping that we run out of troops before they run out of bullets.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Middleman on April 28, 2012, 02:27:20 AM
Quote from: Duce;690772
Let me get this:

New guy comes in, tells us all we're a bunch of dottering old farts wasting our time on our old computer hobbies.  x86 is the FUTURE!  CHANGE NOW OR DIE!
We've heard that for nearly 20 years, Skip.  It's old hat.

Banters back and forth, insulting people telling them they need business training to "understand".  We don't need business training to have fun with a hobby, Champ.  Claims no affiliation with C-USA in every post - not that anyone asked.

Things come full circle, he's now an enterprising up and coming dude wanting to work with C-USA and the retro scene and provide us what we want, after he for the better part of the day called you all *******ed idiots (or worse).  He's now all ears on how to make our lives better, and suddenly a big wig in the world.  Still with no C-USA affiliation.

This place is getting worse by the minute.  Very little is anything Amiga related, and mods seem completely driven by pageviews or something.

Enjoy your CommodoreUSA-Amiga.org ****box, boys.


Duce,

I've just literally read your post. To be honest, I'm pretty upset with your statement there. Because if you're a dottering old fart as you think I make you out to be, then you might as well include me on it! Because NOTHING is going to change that fact that I WAS EXPOSED TO THE AMIGA, LOVED the AMIGA and I ALWAYS WILL....IN WHATEVER SHAPE OR FORM IT HAPPENS TO BE IN. Including its current incarnarnation from CUSA as a Linux PC if you will....

Also to clarify (for you) I am not Barry and this is not a fake account I am using. I am a real person who is based in Asia, who just happens to have an besotted interest in the Amiga, and have a great interest in what the CUSA offerings could turn out to become, as it has been a LONG WHILE the brands have been officially 'back on the market' as it were, and I'm interested to see where it all leads. To this date I have had no financial dealings with CUSA other than buying their C64x for my birthday last year. Although I stressed interest before on their forums last month about being a potential dealer (because I thought maybe it would be an interesting thing to do, and introduce people in Asia to the Commodore brand), ultimately I'm not going to go selling computers as a business because (I know) it's too much work. I've worked at a software distribution company before for a short while when I was younger, so I know what it is like. I prefer a much simpler life to be honest....it's fine to use it for work/hobbies but running it is something else I feel...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 02:36:33 AM
Quote from: Duce;690772
Let me get this:

New guy comes in, tells us all we're a bunch of dottering old farts wasting our time on our old computer hobbies.  x86 is the FUTURE!  CHANGE NOW OR DIE!
We've heard that for nearly 20 years, Skip.  It's old hat.

Banters back and forth, insulting people telling them they need business training to "understand".  We don't need business training to have fun with a hobby, Champ.  Claims no affiliation with C-USA in every post - not that anyone asked.

Things come full circle, he's now an enterprising up and coming dude wanting to work with C-USA and the retro scene and provide us what we want, after he for the better part of the day called you all *******ed idiots (or worse).  He's now all ears on how to make our lives better, and suddenly a big wig in the world.  Still with no C-USA affiliation.

This place is getting worse by the minute.  Very little is anything Amiga related, and mods seem completely driven by pageviews or something.

Enjoy your CommodoreUSA-Amiga.org ****box, boys.


Here you go with the worse reading comprehension in history. How about write on the chalk board 1000 times word for word, letter for letter what I actually wrote.

I am simply saying there is no way in hell in 50-100 years PPC will dominate over intel over mainstream computing. First off, I am referring to mainstream computer market. On the mainstream computing market, PPC has never been price competitive to intel in 15 years. Intel is the worlds largest semiconductor business on the planet. DEC Alpha lost out just as dozens of others. Use your brain for once.

How does using cpu technology that does not have software that people and majority of business uses going to use advisable. Compound it with an OS with next to nill in new software that computer users uses (vs. Computer programmers) in 20 years worth anything in mainstream computing. The closed off small group is eroding. There used to be nearly a million Commodore and Amiga users actively using Amiga and commodore 8 bit computers in 1995 and now by 2010, there is less then 1000 active Amiga and ~5000 Commodore community members with only 1% uses the computer as their primary computer. That is world wide. So, how in zeus's butthole can you possibly expect a new Amiga PPC amiga that competes competitively with intel.

How many purchases of Amiga x1000 by hyperion et al. How many was ever sold?

If you think that would compete then you have 3 months to port every mainstream software for Windows and Linux to Amiga OS and have it ready to compete against windows 8 and 9 and 10. You have 3 months.... Get crackin'

The user interface has to be as revolutionary between Amiga OS to everyone as Amiga 1000 was to the PET and we must have 256 display capability at 120 fps at 2560x2048 resolution at 48 bit color. It must have 65536 cores each with 256 process threads capable of 4 GHz threading, 256 bit digital data and address architecture, 64 Qubit data and address register architecture and with 64 Terabyte hard drive and 255.1 surround sound and be manufactured at a cost of $99 so it can be sold for $199  by Christmas.

Can you pull that all off ? Until then, quit expecting such.

You want a revolution. Then pull that off. Then you can take out intel.

In the meantime, the mainstream market is Intel. Inconvenient truth isn't it.

To the other idiot,

I been on this forum specifically since 2003. However, I didn't post to this forum that much. I was on lemon, and many other amiga forums and many other forums.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 02:49:39 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690781
Just tell him to produce a batch of Minimigs (v2.0) in a cheap plastic case (2 layers of plastic parted with spacers and an engraved logo), a pre-loaded SD card with ROM images, Workbench, some ADF games and a 3.1 Hard File and put it on the market for Xmas.  He could even sell AFD games from his "App Store" if he ever gets a Webmaster capable of creating it.

A quick, easy project.  The hardware designs are Open Source, the FPGA code is Open Source, he has the rights to the ROMs and Workbench and the case could be made by a McEmployee on minimim wage.

Of course he was told this right at the start and never listened.  He'd rather sell us overpriced PCs loaded with Linux and hope that we don't notice.


Minimig is FPGA based. From someone who knows the price curve such as Jeri Ellsworth who knows what the price bench mark for FPGA and ASIC. In low volume, FPGAs are cheaper then ASIC but FPGA price is basically the same with a small discount between 1 and 100,000 FPGAs. You might get the FPGA for half the price if you are lucky at batch orders of 250,000 if you can get that. However, ASIC and small die sizing to the nm fabrication, it can probably be down to about $20 given the years since 64DTV if lucky. A whole unit for $49.99 could be achieved but it won't be field reprogrammable and fixed mode.

So we would have to pick the max system spec and hardware. It won't be shifting between cores so to speak but one core.

You can't get FPGAs cheap just by buying in bulk.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 02:51:58 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690784
They do understand it.  They're paid to ignore it.  ;)


What pay?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 02:58:48 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690778
Legal Liabilty probably.

That plus Barry told them to say that.  :D


I been on this forum damn near as long as you have. Longer than Barry. Longer than Duce.

I have been registered on this forum since 2003. So knock the b.s. Off. No pay. Barry can say whatever he wants and I can just as easily give him the birdie and any of you.

I am not under his control. So please stop spreading such false accusations. That is the problem with you guys. Either you never completed 3rd grade or you guys have some serioius psychological issues. Did you dose too much drugs, lsd, etc. During the 80s and that is why you are so screwed up.

Legal Liability.... LOL.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 03:08:17 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690792
get FPGAs cheap just by buying in bulk.


Assembly is cheaper in bulk.  The Minimig doesn't need a big expensive FPGA.  aCube have already made some.  I have one.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 03:19:49 AM
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/judge-sooty-sweep.jpg)

Barry:  "Hello boys and girls!  I'm your Uncle Bazza and I'm the host of the C-USA Smoke & Mirrors show.  Now I know I've been a bad boy in the past, but thanks to Prozac I'm a new man and I just want to be your friend.  Talking of friends, I've brought two with me.  Meet Middleman and Wildstar.  Say hello to the children guys."
Middleman:  "Hello boys and girls!"
Wildstar:  "Hello boys and girls!"
Barry:  "Why don't you guys tell everyone how nice I am?"
Middleman:  "Oooh!  Uncle Barry is really, really, really nice."
Wildstar:  "He's even nicer than that!  He's like a double helping of nice with a big dollop of icecream on top!"
Middleman:  "I love icecream!"
Wildstar:  "And Uncle Barry loves the Amiga!"
Barry:  "Well there you have it boys and girls, I love you all and I'm a really, really nice guy."
Middleman:  "With icecream!"
Wildstar:  "Yes Uncle Barry, don't forget the icecream!"
Barry:  "OK, that's all until next week.  Remember to come to my website and pre-order a computer with excessive RAM, a sub-standard graphics card, no expandability and an underpowered PSU"
Middleman and Wildstar:  "And icecream!"
Barry:  "You guys are so funny.   Hey, where's Dammy with my meds?  I feel the need to insult someone."
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 03:25:17 AM
Thing I find so passively odd is the fact the old regulars of A.org are just sitting back, reading this completely unrelated talking head BS from C-USA (nothing related to the Amiga in the least other than a licensing agreement) and not saying a word, while the site is losing any Amiga content in favor of this troll crap that's got nothing to do with the platform we love.

These people are guys that could be giving advice to some kid having problems with a floppy drive on an A500 he dragged out from a boot sale.  These are guys that could be giving coding tips to some guy fighting with his first coding project.  These dudes are guys that could be helping some guy that's got a bad display on an old A2000 he put away 15 years ago, but I fear (and in some cases I outright know) people are avoiding the place like the plague due to the propaganda machine.

Instead, I get the feeling the regulars see threads like all this BS spam and just say "screw it, this place isn't worth it" and go elsewhere.  They see the front page and "news" posts, and it's mostly garbage having nothing to do with the Amiga.  Linux x86 machines that do not even come with an emulator have NOTHING to do with the Amiga - nothing.  The fact that the people spamming it are grossly abusive is 10x worse yet, but man - I get a chuckle out of seeing guys like Franko get banned for having a weird sense of humor while this clown show still goes on...

Am I proposing censorship?  Never.  Am I suggesting that the place shouldn't be a dumping zone for people with personal agendas, trying to make us "see the light"?  I sure am.  There is a balance, and right now it's horribly out of whack.  Amiga.org ain't much of an Amiga site lately.

Right now, some kid is digging an old Amiga out of a relatives closet, having no clue how the thing works, but he's damned curious about it, and he'll need community help to get it going.  Right now, someone is having a cold beer, reflecting fondly about a computer they used 20 years ago, and he's looking around on the web, checking out AROS, MOS, OS4 and the FPGA solutions.

All will eventually stumble upon A.org - I hope.  Unfortunately, all the "hot button" topics here are essentially free press of a commodity PC vendor selling Linux PC's.

That is a shame.

Wildstar, if you are trying to gauge "success" in sales in a niche market, a market that has been thriving for 20 years off grassroots businesses and inventive people.  The Jens S's, the AmigaKit/Vesalia/etc guys, the FPGA guys, the MOS guys, the AROS guys, etc.

NONE will ever get rich off selling what they sell to us.  It is a hobby market.  They know this.  I know this.  Everyone knows this.  It's not about "progress" and "the buck", it's about having a hobby you enjoy.  If you quantify "success" with millions of dollars in sales a year in a hobby community, you are a fool.

We come to Amiga.org to spend time with like minded people that enjoy their hobby - whether it be legacy, PPC, AROS.  Everyone has their own definition of what the Amiga is, and far be it from me to force my opinions of that on anyone, and I use all the Amiga platforms anyways.

No one comes to A.org to get spammed by zealots pushing Linux powered x86 product on them in an insulting fashion.  No one.  No one is here to listen to people drone on incessantly that the x86 platform won 20 years ago.  We knew that 20 years ago.

We are here to lend support and good conversation to other people using Amiga variants, and other than a licensing agreement and a sticker/etching, there's nothing Amiga about the C-USA Amiga platform.  Not a thing, not even an emulator.  If you want to make it into some issue that people here have some sort of witch hunt towards C-USA, go nuts.  The day they put out anything Amiga related that goes past case badging is the day they have relevance to the community here.

Their offerings simply have zero relevance at all at this time here, in my books.

People are leaving due to the lack of topical content here, I guess if people want to watch it happen to A.org, there's other Amiga friendly portals on the web that don't pander to entirely unrelated products/companies.  Page views won't keep this ship afloat in the long run (A.org).

Wildstar, not sure what your deal is.  One minute you seem perfectly capable of having a civil discussion, the next minute it's personal insults like:

 "I am not under his control. So please stop spreading such false accusations. That is the problem with you guys. Either you never completed 3rd grade or you guys have some serioius psychological issues. Did you dose too much drugs, lsd, etc. During the 80s and that is why you are so screwed up."

It's reprehensible and childish - either be productive or don't post, before even more people leave this place due to this tripe.  Your perceived freedom of speech here doesn't give you the right to make personal insults and grade school slurs.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 03:25:19 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690796
Assembly is cheaper in bulk.  The Minimig doesn't need a big expensive FPGA.  aCube have already made some.  I have one.


Ok, no one outside the Amiga community would be interested in spending more then $50 on computers of 1992 amiga specs. Darrin, the FPGA manufacturers don't give much saving in bulk volume order. The chip is a $200 chip. If Jeri kept the C64DTV on FPGA, it would have cost $99 instead of like $9.99 to produce. There basically is no bulk savings. Also, you can't get the level of bulk volume. It is not supplied.

Neither Altera or Xillinx will have the price of the FPGA down to $9.99 and the rest of the board components costing $10 in bulk volume of 100,000-200,000. It needs to be able to be produced and sold at price compable to the new atari 2600 reproduction or the C64DTV with simple keyboard and mouse with a Vic-slim like case. Amiga lettering.

ASIC would be the process needed to be done from FPGA to ASIC.

We would need to get the complete package down to 1/10th the price for actual cost and then double the price for profit and overhead cost.

That bein a max spec'd hw.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 28, 2012, 03:25:45 AM
Quote from: haywirepc;690771
Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???

because barry is trying to convince everyone its not him.

The shill accounts are ridiculous. Someone should track his ip and nail him on those lies too.

wildstar is a great example. 26 posts, all of them pro CUSA.
Na, its not a shill account. Yeah right.


I checked and confirmed he is using a ton of different IP addresses but none of them match up with Barry's.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 03:30:24 AM
The community is more than used to paying higher prices for niche hardware - I'm not sure where you get the impression peoples' main driving factor is money.

People gladly paid good money for the PPC OS4 boards.  They were not cheap.
People gladly still register MorphOS, despite the fact it is similarly priced to an OEM copy of Windows.

People still gladly pay thru the nose for legacy Amiga systems, for accels and gfx cards for said systems.  Things like the Indivision and the USB addons for classic Amiga systems are in high, high demand and they are grossly overpriced if one was to foolishly compare them to commodity PC counterparts.

A hobby is never cheap, whether it be computing or classic cars - money is rarely a deciding factor.  Enjoyment is.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 03:32:49 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690800
Ok, no one outside the Amiga community would be interested in spending more then $50 on computers of 1992 amiga specs. Darrin, the FPGA manufacturers don't give much saving in bulk volume order. The chip is a $200 chip. If Jeri kept the C64DTV on FPGA, it would have cost $99 instead of like $9.99 to produce. There basically is no bulk savings. Also, you can't get the level of bulk volume. It is not supplied.

Neither Altera or Xillinx will have the price of the FPGA down to $9.99 and the rest of the board components costing $10 in bulk volume of 100,000-200,000. It needs to be able to be produced and sold at price compable to the new atari 2600 reproduction or the C64DTV with simple keyboard and mouse with a Vic-slim like case. Amiga lettering.

ASIC would be the process needed to be done from FPGA to ASIC.

We would need to get the complete package down to 1/10th the price for actual cost and then double the price for profit and overhead cost.

That bein a max spec'd hw.


It can be a computer, or it can be a retro games console, or a dev board, or an advanced alternative to the Raspberry Pi.  The market is endless if the price is right.  Ask Nintendo.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Tripitaka on April 28, 2012, 03:38:44 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690787
That's what they want.  If they can bore us to death then they can make lots of new threads, fill them with positive "Barry approved" content from sponsored accounts and hope that they'll show up at the top of any Google search.

It is like World War One, they're hoping that we run out of troops before they run out of bullets.  :D


IMHO it's time CUSA threads got removed from A.org. They have forums of their own and it is an abuse to use A.org in such a way. We should just have one locked sticky to say they are not here and the address of CUSAs forum for anyone wishing to talk CUSA. Job done.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: persia on April 28, 2012, 03:46:26 AM
@Middleman

The Amiga brand was sold to Barry the Cable Guy, he's producing a generic line of PCs that bear the Amiga name, why in Zeus' name should I even consider that an Amiga?  Let's say Harley Davidson went out of business and Honda bought the name and brought out a line of mopeds with the Harley Davidson name, would you thing they'd attract old Harley owners?

(http://www.bannedinhollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/super-fat-man-on-a-scooter.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 03:56:03 AM
Quote from: Duce;690799
Thing I find so passively odd is the fact the old regulars of A.org are just sitting back, reading this completely unrelated talking head BS from C-USA (nothing related to the Amiga in the least other than a licensing agreement) and not saying a word, while the site is losing any Amiga content in favor of this troll crap that's got nothing to do with the platform we love.

These people are guys that could be giving advice to some kid having problems with a floppy drive on an A500 he dragged out from a boot sale.  These are guys that could be giving coding tips to some guy fighting with his first coding project.  These dudes are guys that could be helping some guy that's got a bad display on an old A2000 he put away 15 years ago, but I fear (and in some cases I outright know) people are avoiding the place like the plague due to the propaganda machine.

Instead, I get the feeling the regulars see threads like all this BS spam and just say "screw it, this place isn't worth it" and go elsewhere.  They see the front page and "news" posts, and it's mostly garbage having nothing to do with the Amiga.  Linux x86 machines that do not even come with an emulator have NOTHING to do with the Amiga - nothing.  The fact that the people spamming it are grossly abusive is 10x worse yet, but man - I get a chuckle out of seeing guys like Franko get banned for having a weird sense of humor while this clown show still goes on...

Am I proposing censorship?  Never.  Am I suggesting that the place shouldn't be a dumping zone for people with personal agendas, trying to make us "see the light"?  I sure am.  There is a balance, and right now it's horribly out of whack.  Amiga.org ain't much of an Amiga site lately.

Right now, some kid is digging an old Amiga out of a relatives closet, having no clue how the thing works, but he's damned curious about it, and he'll need community help to get it going.  Right now, someone is having a cold beer, reflecting fondly about a computer they used 20 years ago, and he's looking around on the web, checking out AROS, MOS, OS4 and the FPGA solutions.

All will eventually stumble upon A.org - I hope.  Unfortunately, all the "hot button" topics here are essentially free press of a commodity PC vendor selling Linux PC's.

That is a shame.

Wildstar, if you are trying to gauge "success" in sales in a niche market, a market that has been thriving for 20 years off grassroots businesses and inventive people.  The Jens S's, the AmigaKit/Vesalia/etc guys, the FPGA guys, the MOS guys, the AROS guys, etc.

NONE will ever get rich off selling what they sell to us.  It is a hobby market.  They know this.  I know this.  Everyone knows this.  It's not about "progress" and "the buck", it's about having a hobby you enjoy.  If you quantify "success" with millions of dollars in sales a year in a hobby community, you are a fool.

We come to Amiga.org to spend time with like minded people that enjoy their hobby - whether it be legacy, PPC, AROS.  Everyone has their own definition of what the Amiga is, and far be it from me to force my opinions of that on anyone, and I use all the Amiga platforms anyways.

No one comes to A.org to get spammed by zealots pushing Linux powered x86 product on them in an insulting fashion.  No one.  No one is here to listen to people drone on incessantly that the x86 platform won 20 years ago.  We knew that 20 years ago.

We are here to lend support and good conversation to other people using Amiga variants, and other than a licensing agreement and a sticker/etching, there's nothing Amiga about the C-USA Amiga platform.  Not a thing, not even an emulator.  If you want to make it into some issue that people here have some sort of witch hunt towards C-USA, go nuts.  The day they put out anything Amiga related that goes past case badging is the day they have relevance to the community here.

Their offerings simply have zero relevance at all at this time here, in my books.

People are leaving due to the lack of topical content here, I guess if people want to watch it happen to A.org, there's other Amiga friendly portals on the web that don't pander to entirely unrelated products/companies.  Page views won't keep this ship afloat in the long run (A.org).

Wildstar, not sure what your deal is.  One minute you seem perfectly capable of having a civil discussion, the next minute it's personal insults like:

 "I am not under his control. So please stop spreading such false accusations. That is the problem with you guys. Either you never completed 3rd grade or you guys have some serioius psychological issues. Did you dose too much drugs, lsd, etc. During the 80s and that is why you are so screwed up."

It's reprehensible and childish - either be productive or don't post, before even more people leave this place due to this tripe.  Your perceived freedom of speech here doesn't give you the right to make personal insults and grade school slurs.


Um, it does have an emulator. It is already in CommodoreOS Vision.

Fair enough as we so far have been kind of at each others throat, metaphorically speaking.

Lets make some ground base here. What can Commodore USA and classic Amiga/PPC amiga community can do to be gain a more civil relationship while allowing Commodore USA to sell their products. Can we add a forum section specifically for CommodoreUSA products discussions that may occur. There are people who might happen to be working with a classic Amiga and maybe buy one of these CommodoreUSA computers.

This way correct and factual knowledge of those systems and the emulators within the CommodoreOS Vision package would be understood coherent without the emotional diatribe and aggressive attacking. Other aspects directly or indirectly between CommodoreUSA and Amiga classic platforms could be options. Software, you name it. Who knows. The point is, can we be civil from start to finish.

First off, if I recall, the OP of the original interview thread started the interview.

It might be about Amiga community learning about what is happening with the Commodore thread.

Lets take a second to think about this, every other Commodore IP holder CEO never even talked to the Commodore members. At least Barry has been remotely communicating with any of you. I give him credit for that. Most would just have sued and shut sites like this down, and so on. Barry is better then the other clowns.

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS_Vision.aspx

Read in Classic Commodore.

"Feeling nostalgic? A goal of Commodore OS Vision is to simplify classic Commodore compatibility, with integrated features to launch classic 8-bit, 16-bit and 32-bit era software via emulation. As Commodore OS Vision continues to develop, we will continue to improve this feature through updates, that further allow PET, VIC-20, CBM-II, C16, C64, C128 and Commodore AMIGA software to be launched effortlessly. The is no need to bother with floppy disks these days, as many games can be legally puchased and downloaded from the internet directly on to your computer. Commodore OS Vision even has an option to boot directly into full screen C64 emulation with the READY prompt. (ROM files and classic games are provided with our machines and purchased media only)"

You just need to dl the workbench and ROMs. So yes, emulation of Amiga classic is already there. There might be an issue with direct distributing because of that poorly written sentence in that Hyperion-Amiga Inc. Lawsuit.

So does that answer at least one Amiga related aspect?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 03:58:18 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690803
It can be a computer, or it can be a retro games console, or a dev board, or an advanced alternative to the Raspberry Pi.  The market is endless if the price is right.  Ask Nintendo.


$50... Get it down to that price and you got something.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 04:02:03 AM
Last we heard the Amiga Mini does not come with Amiga Forever or another similar, legal, all in one, installed by default emulator with ROM's and images.

By that I mean one that includes ROM's and KS/disk images.

Please correct me if I am wrong - just a couple days ago Leo was claiming they were still debating licensing AF, but said atm it was not included.

I am referring to the C-USA Amiga line only, this being A.org and all I don't really care a hell of a lot about the C64 offerings C-USA have.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 28, 2012, 04:09:29 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690798
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/judge-sooty-sweep.jpg)

Barry:  "Hello boys and girls!  I'm your Uncle Bazza and I'm the host of the C-USA Smoke & Mirrors show.  Now I know I've been a bad boy in the past, but thanks to Prozac I'm a new man and I just want to be your friend.  Talking of friends, I've brought two with me.  Meet Middleman and Wildstar.  Say hello to the children guys."
Middleman:  "Hello boys and girls!"
Wildstar:  "Hello boys and girls!"
Barry:  "Why don't you guys tell everyone how nice I am?"
Middleman:  "Oooh!  Uncle Barry is really, really, really nice."
Wildstar:  "He's even nicer than that!  He's like a double helping of nice with a big dollop of icecream on top!"
Middleman:  "I love icecream!"
Wildstar:  "And Uncle Barry loves the Amiga!"
Barry:  "Well there you have it boys and girls, I love you all and I'm a really, really nice guy."
Middleman:  "With icecream!"
Wildstar:  "Yes Uncle Barry, don't forget the icecream!"
Barry:  "OK, that's all until next week.  Remember to come to my website and pre-order a computer with excessive RAM, a sub-standard graphics card, no expandability and an underpowered PSU"
Middleman and Wildstar:  "And icecream!"
Barry:  "You guys are so funny.   Hey, where's Dammy with my meds?  I feel the need to insult someone."

WTF!

I think darrin needs a holiday... ;)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 04:10:24 AM
Quote from: Duce;690802
The community is more than used to paying higher prices for niche hardware - I'm not sure where you get the impression peoples' main driving factor is money.

People gladly paid good money for the PPC OS4 boards.  They were not cheap.
People gladly still register MorphOS, despite the fact it is similarly priced to an OEM copy of Windows.

People still gladly pay thru the nose for legacy Amiga systems, for accels and gfx cards for said systems.  Things like the Indivision and the USB addons for classic Amiga systems are in high, high demand and they are grossly overpriced if one was to foolishly compare them to commodity PC counterparts.

A hobby is never cheap, whether it be computing or classic cars - money is rarely a deciding factor.  Enjoyment is.


Show me 1,000,000 Amigans actively using Amiga. Considering you need to expect a 1% of them might purchase a given year. R&D for a hardware developer is easily $100/hr. For labor of time. You need to have account for at least a year to get someone to bring price cost to something a million might buy but expecting only 1% success rate.  It has to be inexpensive enough that it can be bundled without adverse impact on sales price like a CARD bundled and plugs into the Amiga Mini's PCIe slot. Can that be achieved.

You can't R&D what would amount to a loss of a $100/hr. For someone to micronize it and get the cost down. Hardware engineers needs to eat too. They have a family and bills to pay. That is something that is going to cost a deal of money. So, how will the cost be distributed effectively for only a 100 purchasers?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: CSixx on April 28, 2012, 04:16:57 AM
Quote from: Tripitaka;690804
IMHO it's time CUSA threads got removed from A.org. They have forums of their own and it is an abuse to use A.org in such a way. We should just have one locked sticky to say they are not here and the address of CUSAs forum for anyone wishing to talk CUSA. Job done.


Too late, this is now the official CUSA forum.
See for yourself: http://www.cusaforums.com
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 04:17:50 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690808
$50... Get it down to that price and you got something.


I could say the same thing for C-USA's existing product(s).
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 04:24:00 AM
Quote from: Duce;690809
Last we heard the Amiga Mini does not come with Amiga Forever or another similar, legal, all in one, installed by default emulator with ROM's and images.

By that I mean one that includes ROM's and KS/disk images.

Please correct me if I am wrong - just a couple days ago Leo was claiming they were still debating licensing AF, but said atm it was not included.

I am referring to the C-USA Amiga line only, this being A.org and all I don't really care a hell of a lot about the C64 offerings C-USA have.

There is a working emulator without the workbench and Rom which you can just copy over at your own legal peril. Lol...

As far as getting a fully licensed AmigaForever is the ideal. I believe there is UAE?

http://www.amigaemulator.org/files/binaries/

Easy if you need to. There should be ways to deal with that. I believe that is on it or would run in an intance.

Regardless, COS-V is updatable and once the licensing agreement stuff is addressed... Then you will have AmigaForever and I would suspect a downloadable update would get it on the computer. So, once that is solved and resolved, it won't be an issue. There has already been working Amiga emulation proven to work so if you already have AF then you probably don't have to wait.

I quoted the text as is. I wasn't quoting it for the c64 stuff. Ok.

In any case, there is plenty of Linux based Amiga emulators if it isn't yet installed in Beta 8 of COS-V. That is because COS-V would be aimed to have most if not all the Commodore 8 bit and Amiga line with emulation in the common configuration.

It also is aimed to be the main OS environment for the day to day work and then you can use the emulation for running the software. FYI, if you have equivalent hardware specs then COS-V should work and you can test run it.

By know mean am I suggesting that you give up using your classics. We both can agree you probably don't use it for the serious stuff.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: CritAnime on April 28, 2012, 04:28:51 AM
Ok I am seriously lacking sleep. I have been up nearly 24hr and this might not be the most sensible post ever written. So appologies up front.

What I don't get is why Barry, or anyone from Commodore USA, officially affiliated or not, feels they need to come and try to convince us that they are the next best thing since sliced bread. Especially as how barry has stated in the past that he is not interested in the opinions from our "muddy little pond".

At the end of the day people will buy these machines. Regardless of what we or other people would say. Why?

Maybe they believe the hype. Maybe the think that this is the real return of commodore. Hell they may be influenced by nostalgia alone. But people will buy these things regardless.

So let them. Let them spend their money on what ever they feel like. Just please let's stop this silly bickering now. As much as I like to pick faults in their products, like woefully inadequate PSU's, I feel its getting to the point were its become more a personal attack rather than sensible discussion.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 04:34:47 AM
There are plenty of people developing HW and SW for legacy and NG Amiga systems without starving to death IRL.  Most people refer to it as a "labor of love".  Just because people only see things as being "viable" in terms of dollars and cents, doesn't mean a guy can't eek out an existence selling niche market items in a niche market.

You are equating million dollar profits to "success" in a hobby market, and that just isn't what it's all about.

If it were a loss leader there would be no AmigaKit, no X1000, so on and so forth.  No one does this out of charity.

Thanks for the reply on the emulator issue - as Leo said, there's no working, out of the box emulator included with the proper ROM's and disk images.  UAE doesn't do a whole hell of a lot without them.

I certainly hope the cusaforums.com redirect is a gag.  Makes me nervous to think the place may have sold out and people I would not want to have any of my personal info may have it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 28, 2012, 04:38:46 AM
@Duce

Amiga.org has not sold out to anyone. Expect less CUSA coverage in the future not more. I don't think there is any danger of CUSA trying to buy out your favorite Amiga fan sites anytime soon. Not even including a $10 copy of Amiga Forever with the expensive Linux machines they sell just goes to show how cheap they really are.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 04:39:46 AM
Thanks for the clarification, Pyro.

The domain redirect is obviously concerning, was all.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 28, 2012, 04:44:13 AM
@Duce

Someones idea of a joke I guess? Not our doing.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 04:46:41 AM
Quote from: CritAnime;690817
Ok I am seriously lacking sleep. I have been up nearly 24hr and this might not be the most sensible post ever written. So appologies up front.

What I don't get is why Barry, or anyone from Commodore USA, officially affiliated or not, feels they need to come and try to convince us that they are the next best thing since sliced bread. Especially as how barry has stated in the past that he is not interested in the opinions from our "muddy little pond".

At the end of the day people will buy these machines. Regardless of what we or other people would say. Why?

Maybe they believe the hype. Maybe the think that this is the real return of commodore. Hell they may be influenced by nostalgia alone. But people will buy these things regardless.

So let them. Let them spend their money on what ever they feel like. Just please let's stop this silly bickering now. As much as I like to pick faults in their products, like woefully inadequate PSU's, I feel its getting to the point were its become more a personal attack rather than sensible discussion.


I am not suggesting it is the next best thing since sliced bread. I am only suggesting in counterargument to unwarranted or unreasonable bashing. If people just say, the systems have rational specifications for mainstream computer users and have a strong theme but currently doe not have the specifications I need or that I currently do not have the needs for it. Current development does not directly involve the classic hardware. Leave it at that and the guys just might have a cool headed rational response without contrived bashing because it doesn't continue on the b.s. path of Escom which failed to follow through and lost opportunity.

Escom failed. They promised and failed. They had opportunity with PPC then. The market does not have that opportunity now and too many left the entire amiga community completely since the decade+ time frame. Then all the b.s. by Bill McEwen et al.

I am all too familiar with the litter of lies and b.s. Over the years. My suggestion, get over it and move on. Seek new opportunities instead.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 04:52:00 AM
Quote from: Duce;690819
There are plenty of people developing HW and SW for legacy and NG Amiga systems without starving to death IRL.  Most people refer to it as a "labor of love".  Just because people only see things as being "viable" in terms of dollars and cents, doesn't mean a guy can't eek out an existence selling niche market items in a niche market.

You are equating million dollar profits to "success" in a hobby market, and that just isn't what it's all about.

If it were a loss leader there would be no AmigaKit, no X1000, so on and so forth.  No one does this out of charity.

Thanks for the reply on the emulator issue - as Leo said, there's no working, out of the box emulator included with the proper ROM's and disk images.  UAE doesn't do a whole hell of a lot without them.

I certainly hope the cusaforums.com redirect is a gag.  Makes me nervous to think the place may have sold out and people I would not want to have any of my personal info may have it.


If I have to get a loan from a bank to finance bring a product to production and market, How am I going to sell that to the bank lender.

Think man, think. Bring products to market involves lending or massive loss and destruction to credit.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 04:55:50 AM
Quote from: Pyromania;690820
@Duce

Amiga.org has not sold out to anyone. Expect less CUSA coverage in the future not more. I don't think there is any danger of CUSA trying to buy out your favorite Amiga fan sites anytime soon. Not even including a $10 copy of Amiga Forever with the expensive Linux machines they sell just goes to show how cheap they really are.


Do you understand the laws governing interstate and international trade. You can not bundle software without permission. That is what CommodoreUSA is dealing with in accordance with the laws not the quasi-lawless folks who don't run business in any formal business manner whatsoever.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 05:02:38 AM
I am thinking, lol.

There's plenty of business people, from guys making parts for cars that haven't been made for 80 years, to guys making components for Amiga's that will never get rich, yet they still keep doing it.  If you see what they are doing as a failure because they aren't making millions per year supporting a hobby they love, knock yourself out and call them failures.  I won't, and either will 99% of the people here.  Instead we're thankful there are people around still slugging away to bring stuff to market.  For nearly 20 years these grassroots guys, combined with people selling and trading older hardware have been the lifeblood of the Amiga community.  Those guys that are getting their hands dirty and burned up with soldering irons are the ones to respect, and people around here show said respect to them in spades.

For them it's simply not about venture capital and owning nice cars.  Perhaps many don't even break even.  Perhaps many still work crappy day jobs to fund their passions of bringing new products to market for things that the rest of the world forgot about a long time ago.

It's not all about money, and the fact there's still new products coming out for the Amiga's that were made 20 years ago shows this - things like the ZorRam, Indivision cards, the ACA accels, the FPGA Arcade/Minimig, etc.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 05:15:13 AM
Quote from: Duce;690829
I am thinking, lol.

There's plenty of business people, from guys making parts for cars that haven't been made for 80 years, to guys making components for Amiga's that will never get rich, yet they still keep doing it.  If you see what they are doing as a failure because they aren't making millions per year supporting a hobby they love, knock yourself out and call them failures.  I won't, and either will 99% of the people here.  Instead we're thankful there are people around still slugging away to bring stuff to market.  For nearly 20 years these grassroots guys, combined with people selling and trading older hardware have been the lifeblood of the Amiga community.  Those guys that are getting their hands dirty and burned up with soldering irons are the ones to respect, and people around here show said respect to them in spades.

For them it's simply not about venture capital and owning nice cars.  Perhaps many don't even break even.  Perhaps many still work crappy day jobs to fund their passions of bringing new products to market for things that the rest of the world forgot about a long time ago.

It's not all about money, and the fact there's still new products coming out for the Amiga's that were made 20 years ago shows this - things like the ZorRam, Indivision cards, the ACA accels, the FPGA Arcade/Minimig, etc.


The issue is there isn't enough people with money buying things for Commodore and Amiga classic machines. Different then antique cars. Most antique car collectors are rich executives. Most of the commodore/amiga collectors are poor with poor paying jobs. Maybe $30-50k a year. In addition, there is also so few actually using the hw and don't see much use in buying hardware upgrades. In addition, there is no market room for a company like Commodore USA to even put a CMD like presence in the commodore 8 bit and amiga. There is just not enough people spending money to rent commercial space. This means, they need a main stream market for revenues. As an individual, I can put a limited presence by just doing something and to soften impact. This is the kind of issues we have to keep in mind.

Too many players with not enough purchaser can be detrimental too.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 05:19:33 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690751
I probably can look at some numbers that were released and figure the money cost and extrapolate gross revenues from sales prices. However, I can't say it is the totals but I can say they they are closer to CMD in their early to mid 90s days given the larger venue.

Jens, jim brain and most of the hw developer 'businesses' don't add up in gross revenues.

How does Amiga Mini sell.... Well... At the pricing... I can guess it would sell when it has an i7 quad core processor and 16 GB RAM and high end GPUs is about twice the clock rate, twice the number of cores and and faster sysyem bus for DDR3 not DDR2 memory and SATA3 sockets... And you have an OS that has more mainstream software immediately functional right from get go.
Lotta guesswork in there and not much in the way of numbers. I ask again: do you have any basis for saying that CUSA makes more money than the entire Commodore/Amiga hobbyist market?

Quote
The OS has a big part to do with whether the product has commercial viability in the mainstream. Linux is strong and viable and in fact Linus Torvald started with Commodore and I suspect he was strongly influenced by C64, Amiga and other system over the years.

The biggest problem with AmigaOS is it lacks mainstream viability because there isn't the apps and the Amiga operating system is largely outdated.
Again, "mainstream viability" is irrelevant. The Amiga is twenty years out of being the mainstream and a good fifteen years past any hope of ever recapturing a significant part of it. Even if you redefine "Amiga" to mean nothing more than any computer that has rented the brand name from Bill, there's no way they can ever make a dent in the mainstream. (Certainly not at those prices.)

Quote
Mainstream Computer users don't want to program software.
Okay, if you were advocating for Windows or Mac OS and saying this, that'd be one thing, but if you're using this as a point in Linux's favor? I can only conclude that you've never actually used Linux. Trying to use Linux in any kind of semi-comprehensive desktop PC capacity is closer to programming than some actual programmers get these days.

Quote from: Wildstar128;690753
Ok, semantics.... I was using produce to differentiate from develop. They produce just as much as many of the PC computer brands that don't actually produce the motherboard themselves but get special OEM boards for their product and assemble into their own cases.
 
 Dell doesn't even manufacturer their motherboards. So producing in the sense of a complete product package. Just like a car producer that uses a chassis from on manufactuerer, engine of another and just produce their on body and cosmetics.
Okay, but even by that definition, they've produced a run (10,000, according to Barry) of C64x cases. How many C64xes have they sold? If one were to judge by user posts on the CUSA forums, it's a dozen or two. Have they ordered another run of cases? Have they even made a dent in their existing case stock? How does this compare to the sold-out first run of AmigaOne X1000 machines and registrations for the second run?
 
Quote
Lets put it like this, they don't absolutely have to have employees but when they have, they pay them. As far as I know, Leo is an employee and is paid. If he wasn't, I would think he be gone. They have people that work at the communication. As a company with employees, you must pay your employees. I am sure it can be ascertained under public information requests through the proper government entities and get the picture.
And, what, do the people at Amigakit just come in on a Saturday and fill orders for kicks? What basis do you have for suggesting that Amiga hobbyist businesses don't pay their workers?

Quote from: Wildstar128;690758
I do believe they can capture some of the Amiga essence. Now, lets take a look at the underlying framework of Amiga kernal. Isn't it some sort of framework built off of UNIX to some degree but certainly divergent in a massive way.
No. It is not based on Unix. It's not even Unix-like. It's certainly nothing like Linux.
 
Quote from: Wildstar128;690765
Business is simply about selling a product that people would use at a fair price. Jack Tramiel did quite well with that philosophy.
Okay. Now under what logic would you say that charging somewhere around twice the cost of the components for a PC built entirely from commodity hardware is "a fair price?"

Quote from: Wildstar128;690791
So, how in zeus's butthole can you possibly expect a new Amiga PPC amiga that competes competitively with intel.
Who says it has to compete? It's an entirely separate market.
 
Quote
How many purchases of Amiga x1000 by hyperion et al. How many was ever sold?
The entire first run (100 machines? I think? Correct me if I'm wrong) has sold and they're registering interest for a second.
 
Quote from: Wildstar128;690807
Lets take a second to think about this, every other Commodore IP holder CEO never even talked to the Commodore members. At least Barry has been remotely communicating with any of you. I give him credit for that.
Wait, so we're supposed to be grateful he comes on here to condescend and smarm and insult us? Dude told me outright that I've never accomplished anything in my life, and he doesn't even know me. I'm supposed to be impressed because he deigned to talk to me?
 
 
Quote from: Wildstar128;690811
Show me 1,000,000 Amigans actively using Amiga. Considering you need to expect a 1% of them might purchase a given year. R&D for a hardware developer is easily $100/hr. For labor of time. You need to have account for at least a year to get someone to bring price cost to something a million might buy but expecting only 1% success rate.
Where are you getting these numbers from?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 05:27:41 AM
Quote from: Middleman;690780
To be fair, after looking at the answers after his reply, I think the Amiga community in general I think is being too harsh on his company, and being too pessimistic about certain things a little too early. He has said he is a small company slowly working to rebuild the Commodore and Amiga brands. As  Leo has mentioned many times before Rome wasn't built in a day…..
It's been two years. If they haven't stopped with the compulsive lying/spreading of misinformation and general abuse of dissenters now (to say nothing of the obscene markup,) why should we expect them to suddenly get better at any point in the future?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 05:50:46 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690833
Lotta guesswork in there and not much in the way of numbers. I ask again: do you have any basis for saying that CUSA makes more money than the entire Commodore/Amiga hobbyist market?

Again, "mainstream viability" is irrelevant. The Amiga is twenty years out of being the mainstream and a good fifteen years past any hope of ever recapturing a significant part of it. Even if you redefine "Amiga" to mean nothing more than any computer that has rented the brand name from Bill, there's no way they can ever make a dent in the mainstream. (Certainly not at those prices.)

Okay, if you were advocating for Windows or Mac OS and saying this, that'd be one thing, but if you're using this as a point in Linux's favor? I can only conclude that you've never actually used Linux. Trying to use Linux in any kind of semi-comprehensive desktop PC capacity is closer to programming than some actual programmers get these days.


Okay, but even by that definition, they've produced a run (10,000, according to Barry) of C64x cases. How many C64xes have they sold? If one were to judge by user posts on the CUSA forums, it's a dozen or two. Have they ordered another run of cases? Have they even made a dent in their existing case stock? How does this compare to the sold-out first run of AmigaOne X1000 machines and registrations for the second run?
 
 And, what, do the people at Amigakit just come in on a Saturday and fill orders for kicks? What basis do you have for suggesting that Amiga hobbyist businesses don't pay their workers?


 No. It is not based on Unix. It's not even Unix-like. It's certainly nothing like Linux.
 

 Okay. Now under what logic would you say that charging somewhere around twice the cost of the components for a PC built entirely from commodity hardware is "a fair price?"


 Who says it has to compete? It's an entirely separate market.
 
 The entire first run (100 machines? I think? Correct me if I'm wrong) has sold and they're registering interest for a second.
 

 Wait, so we're supposed to be grateful he comes on here to condescend and smarm and insult us? Dude told me outright that I've never accomplished anything in my life, and he doesn't even know me. I'm supposed to be impressed because he deigned to talk to me?
 
 
 Where are you getting these numbers from?


You can either get new people or serve only those that are already die hard people. The only way to get new people is in the mainstream. That is where they are. Old people that once was here and now is there - is there.

"Wait, so we're supposed to be grateful he comes on here to condescend and smarm and insult us? Dude told me outright that I've never accomplished anything in my life, and he doesn't even know me. I'm supposed to be impressed because he deigned to talk to me?"

I don't know, it might be because you guys started bashing him just for getting the brand and in other words started it. I suspect he is better then the other a--holes who would shut down every Commodore website. Sued everyone of the sites with the logos, and had them all thrown in jail and fined for statutory violation of $25,000 per violation and legal precedence is that each day a violation occured would be a violation up to statutes of repose.

Well lets assume 2 years. That is 365x2 or 730 days of violations. Each day a violation. 730 violations at $25,000 and a year in jail for each violation. Imagine 730 years of imprisonment and $18+ Million dollars in fines each. That would be pretty gnarly. Then throw in the copyright violations.

That would be an grade AAA a--hole.

It is a good thing Barry is not one of those.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: CritAnime on April 28, 2012, 05:50:57 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690824
I am not suggesting it is the next best thing since sliced bread. I am only suggesting in counterargument to unwarranted or unreasonable bashing. If people just say, the systems have rational specifications for mainstream computer users and have a strong theme but currently doe not have the specifications I need or that I currently do not have the needs for it. Current development does not directly involve the classic hardware. Leave it at that and the guys just might have a cool headed rational response without contrived bashing because it doesn't continue on the b.s. path of Escom which failed to follow through and lost opportunity.
 
Escom failed. They promised and failed. They had opportunity with PPC then. The market does not have that opportunity now and too many left the entire amiga community completely since the decade+ time frame. Then all the b.s. by Bill McEwen et al.
 
I am all too familiar with the litter of lies and b.s. Over the years. My suggestion, get over it and move on. Seek new opportunities instead.

I wasn't suggesting that it was you personally. It was a generalized statement about that amount of times we have seen people trying to convince us that Commodore USA where the best people for the job. And yes like you I have seen others trying to bring the brands back into the mainstream. Lets not forget Commodore Gaming, a company I feel Commodore USA resemble in a fashion, that had taken a stab at bringing Commodore kicking and screaming into the x86/64 era. And that survived for a while then failed.
 
Look I am simply saying maybe it's time we just let this one go and allow the thread to fall off the front page.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 06:14:48 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690833
Lotta guesswork in there and not much in the way of numbers. I ask again: do you have any basis for saying that CUSA makes more money than the entire Commodore/Amiga hobbyist market?

Again, "mainstream viability" is irrelevant. The Amiga is twenty years out of being the mainstream and a good fifteen years past any hope of ever recapturing a significant part of it. Even if you redefine "Amiga" to mean nothing more than any computer that has rented the brand name from Bill, there's no way they can ever make a dent in the mainstream. (Certainly not at those prices.)

Okay, if you were advocating for Windows or Mac OS and saying this, that'd be one thing, but if you're using this as a point in Linux's favor? I can only conclude that you've never actually used Linux. Trying to use Linux in any kind of semi-comprehensive desktop PC capacity is closer to programming than some actual programmers get these days.


Okay, but even by that definition, they've produced a run (10,000, according to Barry) of C64x cases. How many C64xes have they sold? If one were to judge by user posts on the CUSA forums, it's a dozen or two. Have they ordered another run of cases? Have they even made a dent in their existing case stock? How does this compare to the sold-out first run of AmigaOne X1000 machines and registrations for the second run?
 
 And, what, do the people at Amigakit just come in on a Saturday and fill orders for kicks? What basis do you have for suggesting that Amiga hobbyist businesses don't pay their workers?


 No. It is not based on Unix. It's not even Unix-like. It's certainly nothing like Linux.
 

 Okay. Now under what logic would you say that charging somewhere around twice the cost of the components for a PC built entirely from commodity hardware is "a fair price?"


 Who says it has to compete? It's an entirely separate market.
 
 The entire first run (100 machines? I think? Correct me if I'm wrong) has sold and they're registering interest for a second.
 

 Wait, so we're supposed to be grateful he comes on here to condescend and smarm and insult us? Dude told me outright that I've never accomplished anything in my life, and he doesn't even know me. I'm supposed to be impressed because he deigned to talk to me?
 
 
 Where are you getting these numbers from?


If your batch run is 10 then that isn't much to say.

10,000 units at $595 is 5.95 Million in sales. Then you have the Vic and other models. So, if you figure about $6-8 million in revenue. How much sales does jens make a year on all his products.

The last I recall, he didn't even sell 100 C-Ones. That was maybe $35k-$50k. Did he even get that. If I recall, he spent over $150k to get the batch produced. Maybe it was somewhere between $125k-$175k. It has been awhile since I saw his old post on the CommodoreOne list(s) with that info.

He is one of the largest commodore/amiga hardware developers existent. The big -10 would be lucky to be between $750k-$1M. That is if they have a good year and that is usually only the one time batch pre-order that happens maybe once in 5 years with each of the developers.

The sw developers generally make $0.

So, how do anyone make a living when you are lucky to sell 30-50 of anything.

There usually is only one time batches and that first may get sold old but the second batch takes years to deplete even though the second batch is half to equal the first batch.

There are maybe 100-250 active folks left world wide that actively purchases hardware on a regular basis. Of the ~6000, you are lucky to get 10% to buy anything a given year. So, each vendor is lucky to get 1-2% to purchase their product. So viably, I can only expect at most 50-60 purchases of something a given year and it would then take 3-5 times as much time to sell another 50-60. Product sale life is good for maybe a year and then it is slow as heck.

I seen this with many of the stuff produced in the Commodore and Amiga community.

These are ball park and vary. I seen this with Jens, Jim and others.

The few things that continuously sell are cables and cords.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 06:16:37 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690836
You can either get new people or serve only those that are already die hard people. The only way to get new people is in the mainstream. That is where they are. Old people that once was here and now is there - is there.
I disagree, but even if that's true, it's simply not going to work trying to break back into the mainstream. The only people who still hold enough affection for the Amiga, 20 years after Commodore's bankruptcy, that it would impact their purchasing decisions are the people who liked it for what it was, not for its name. Many of those people are right here in this community; those that aren't, if by some chance they ever hear about CUSA, are going to look into it and go "what the hey is this?" because it's not only not what they remembered, it has absolutely nothing in common with what they remembered - not even a case design! Even if there were any still interested, the sheer absurdity of the pricing would put them off.

They can't retain old die-hards by abandoning everything that the die-hards value, and they can't entice new people with a name that means nothing to the majority and prices that would be off-putting to the entirety. It simply doesn't work that way.

Quote
I suspect he is better then the other a--holes who would shut down every Commodore website. Sued everyone of the sites with the logos, and had them all thrown in jail and fined for statutory violation of $25,000 per violation and legal precedence is that each day a violation occured would be a violation up to statutes of repose.

Well lets assume 2 years. That is 365x2 or 730 days of violations. Each day a violation. 730 violations at $25,000 and a year in jail for each violation. Imagine 730 years of imprisonment and $18+ Million dollars in fines each. That would be pretty gnarly. Then throw in the copyright violations.

That would be an grade AAA a--hole.

It is a good thing Barry is not one of those.
Okay, has anyone actually tried to do that? What grounds would they do it on? "He's probably better than a hypothetical complete monster with no regard for fair-use laws and who has the run of the courts such that they can impose utterly impossible penalties that wouldn't last ten seconds in an appeals court, and who probably eats babies" is not exactly a glowing recommendation.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 06:23:42 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690839
10,000 units at $595 is 5.95 Million in sales. Then you have the Vic and other models. So, if you figure about $6-8 million in revenue. How much sales does jens make a year on all his products.
Where are you getting those figures? According to Barry they produced 10,000 cases, but there's no information indicating they've sold even 1/100th of those. Hypothesizing about how much they might make, if they sold every single case they produced with at least a base configuration PC (i.e. not bare cases,) which we don't know, says nothing whatsoever about what they actually did sell.

Quote
He is one of the largest commodore/amiga hardware developers existent. The big -10 would be lucky to be between $750k-$1M. That is if they have a good year and that is usually only the one time batch pre-order that happens maybe once in 5 years with each of the developers.

The sw developers generally make $0.
Again, what basis do you have for any of these figures?

Quote
So, how do anyone make a living when you are lucky to sell 30-50 of anything.
Who said anything about making a living?

Quote
I seen this with many of the stuff produced in the Commodore and Amiga community.

These are ball park and vary. I seen this with Jens, Jim and others.
You say "ball park," I say "wild guessing with no sources to back it up."
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 06:24:43 AM
Quote from: CritAnime;690837
I wasn't suggesting that it was you personally. It was a generalized statement about that amount of times we have seen people trying to convince us that Commodore USA where the best people for the job. And yes like you I have seen others trying to bring the brands back into the mainstream. Lets not forget Commodore Gaming, a company I feel Commodore USA resemble in a fashion, that had taken a stab at bringing Commodore kicking and screaming into the x86/64 era. And that survived for a while then failed.
 
Look I am simply saying maybe it's time we just let this one go and allow the thread to fall off the front page.


Anyway, I think I said enough on this. I think the point I am trying to make is don't expect any serious business to try to venture much into supporting a nanoscopic number of customers. It generally take as much as an entire town of 10,000 for a small computer repair business to thrive and function because you don't get the entire amount every year.

There is less than that in the community.

Even the demoscene has been slowing down compared to 2005.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 06:44:46 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690841
Where are you getting those figures? According to Barry they produced 10,000 cases, but there's no information indicating they've sold even 1/100th of those. Hypothesizing about how much they might make, if they sold every single case they produced with at least a base configuration PC (i.e. not bare cases,) which we don't know, says nothing whatsoever about what they actually did sell.


Again, what basis do you have for any of these figures?


Who said anything about making a living?


You say "ball park," I say "wild guessing with no sources to back it up."


Lets look at the names on the membership list and assume easily the 50% of you are on every forum or most. Since 70-80% of you are on all the Amiga forums the of the  remaining around 15% are umique to this forum and the rest are on several.

Those here, represent maybe 1/5 of the folks and the rest are part of clubs and not online in appreciable level. I rarely saw any one forum being over 10,000. lemon would represent one of the largest bulk of the forums. Most of them are here and across all the forums. i would assume half those on Lemon are inactive folks and 1/4 of the active ones are repeat accounts. Ie. Same person had to create a new account and lost the old one.

6000-12000 would be a good guess.

I am being conservative and figuring 6000 active.

9077 lemon64 and 7131 or so on lemonamiga...

I would assume 80% of commodore users are also Amiga users.
I would assume only have the acconts are active and they would represent about 80%.

So around 6000 is rough hand guess of active amiga and commodore users.

I would go as much as 50% more for anyone not clearly measurable and is by large off line or little web presence. So, 9000 or so. I would doubt past 10,000 active.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 07:02:10 AM
Okay, now where are you getting the $6-8 million figure for CUSA from? What reason do we have to believe that they sold 10,000 C64xes in the past year? Nothing from them, certainly.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 28, 2012, 09:34:25 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690844
Okay, now where are you getting the $6-8 million figure for CUSA from? What reason do we have to believe that they sold 10,000 C64xes in the past year? Nothing from them, certainly.


Non-sense to speak of more, especially threatening who for copyright violations?. Either C-USA are doing good and will conquer the world, so every house knows of Barry, or will fail because of properties and pricing of products. We should help by not discussing it anymore if we are not customers. If we are, there is a proper forum.

Good luck to "Commodore"-"Amiga".org community

Last paradox is that big interview and all the questions answered, there seems to be unresolved matters. But it is much clearer C=USA wants to distinct itself from existing (old) Amiga community and have new fresh customers. While it sounds like more rapid market, they don`t have "cool" enough products for the young, and influence via parents or schools can be beneficial, if not by what you are using at work. Dismissing people as customers as age group is also lousy, not to mention these are still people in health and productive age that can spend and produce much.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Borut on April 28, 2012, 10:53:17 AM
Uaaaaah (still getting tired of CUSA stuff) - nothing new, nothing great, none at least a little interesting things. The last one please turn off the lights LOL

In the Demoscene I assume they would call such people something like "lamers" ;-)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 02:28:01 PM
@ Wildstar128

If your argument  about mainstream computers is true, then how do you explain the popularity of the Raspberry Pi?  It's NOT about beaing mainstream at all; it's about going back to the roots of where we all came from in early computing and re-inventing it for now; the Raspberry Pi has managed that and it can still perform as a NAS, play HDMI video etc. and it's dirt cheap. I'd imagine it's capable of emulation too. They even plan to teach programming it in schools, so it's kind of re-inventing the BBC Micro era.

If they were to put it into a keyboard case they'd have the modern equivalent of computers from the BBC, Spectrum and C64 through to the Amiga.

The guys that came up with the Raspberry Pi know what market they are targetting and it's working for them. Barry is just thrashing around trying to find the computing equivalent of a lottery ticket and that's why everything he touches turns to crap - it's the total opposite of the Midas Touch. He could learn a lot from these people, but Barry knows that he is right, that everyone else is wrong and that's all that matters.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 04:26:14 PM
Quote from: WotTheFook;690863
If your argument  about mainstream computers is true, then how do you explain the popularity of the Raspberry Pi?  It's NOT about beaing mainstream at all; it's about going back to the roots of where we all came from in early computing and re-inventing it for now; the Raspberry Pi has managed that and it can still perform as a NAS, play HDMI video etc. and it's dirt cheap.
Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 28, 2012, 04:48:35 PM
I don't believe they sold 10,000. Just my opinion, remember when Dammy said they sold over 100,000? My best guess is they sold 20-100 tops and that is beng generous. That's why no inject molding Amiga replica cases.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 28, 2012, 04:51:54 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;690877
I don't believe they sold 10,000. Just my opinion, remember when Dammy said they sold over 100,000? My best guess is they sold 20-100 tops and that is beng generous. That's why no inject molding Amiga replica cases.


I know I'm getting old, but I don't remember saying that.  URL?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 28, 2012, 05:09:32 PM
Quote from: dammy;690878
I know I'm getting old, but I don't remember saying that.  URL?



Perhaps it was this?

Quote
Total sales (C64x series[including barebone model]and VIC series) is well over 100,000 units. Right now you can drop by different computer shops around the world and purchase a custom built C64x or Vics. C=USA has a new site under construction at http://www.commodore.net and in the coming weeks will be finished and ready for business.


source (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/202422)

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 28, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
Quote from: number6;690879
Perhaps it was this?



source (http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbthread.pl/amiga/expand/202422)

#6

Alright, I'm getting old. :)

Thanks

Edit: http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/2-welcome-mat/14621-pic-of-amiga-mini-in-production
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 28, 2012, 05:13:55 PM
Quote from: dammy;690880
Alright, I'm getting old. :)

Thanks



Welcome. btw, same thread you said:

Quote
I am so glad Ben blew off Barry, I really am.



Yet in the Q/A, we have official confirmation that no talks took place.
I'm guessing your source at the time was probably not Barry. Heh.

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 05:17:24 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;690877
I don't believe they sold 10,000. Just my opinion, remember when Dammy said they sold over 100,000? My best guess is they sold 20-100 tops and that is beng generous. That's why no inject molding Amiga replica cases.
I agree - but that's my point. Barring a statement to that effect, I don't believe CUSA has even put a dent in the 10,000 cases they claimed to have produced...but the Pi, piffly and tiny and bare-bones as it is, sold that many in the space of mere minutes. Those folks knew what they were trying to achieve, knew who a good secondary market would be, marketed to them effectively and paid real attention to their concerns (AFAIK the only thing left to be documented for the tinkerers is the GPU API, thank you so damn much Broadcom.) As a result, they've enjoyed huge interest, such that people have stuck with them even through some frustrating manufacturing hiccups.

Barry, on the other hand, didn't understand the Amiga community coming in, didn't try to, made fun of anybody who told him that community interest generally lies elsewhere, distributed much misinformation, showed extreme unwarranted self-importance every time he posted, acted more combative the more people tried to tell him how he was mis-stepping, and ultimately just charged too much for too little in hopes that the name would make up for it, when he'd already half-alienated the people who would've been interested in the first place. He tried to cover that by saying "well, you're Not Our Target Market," but he keeps coming back - because (I theorize) we're all he's got. The world outside the Amiga community cares even less about the brand names and is far less inclined to pay large sums for unimpressive hardware.

Barry's entire time here has basically been one long session of shooting himself in the foot. He pretty much killed his business before it even got started.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: haywirepc on April 28, 2012, 05:29:54 PM
Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.   :laugh1:

Are you on drugs? No way 10,000 people wanted a c64 case with a pc board crammed inside bad enough to spend that kind of cash.

Most c64 fans would just buy a real c64 from ebay for 30$

c64 was a fantastically lovely computer. But a pc with an emulator and a c64 shell? I just don't see 10,000 people (in seconds) buying that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 28, 2012, 05:39:22 PM
Quote from: number6;690882
Welcome. btw, same thread you said:




Yet in the Q/A, we have official confirmation that no talks took place.
I'm guessing your source at the time was probably not Barry. Heh.

#6


Just went by what Leo told me.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: dammy;690880
Alright, I'm getting old. :)

Thanks


No, what is happening is that you have told us so many lies that you can't keep track of them.

So now Barry has sent 3 henchmen here to try and do some damage control.

I bet his blood pressure is through the roof.  :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 05:58:38 PM
Quote from: dammy;690885
Just went by what Leo told me.


Same old excuse, it is always someone else's fault.

So are you confirming that Leo is a liar?  Thanks.  We'll save this quote too under "Dammy confirms that C-USA CTO spreads lies".

Cheers.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 06:07:46 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;690884
Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.   :laugh1:

Are you on drugs? No way 10,000 people wanted a c64 case with a pc board crammed inside bad enough to spend that kind of cash.

Most c64 fans would just buy a real c64 from ebay for 30$

c64 was a fantastically lovely computer. But a pc with an emulator and a c64 shell? I just don't see 10,000 people (in seconds) buying that.
I don't think you read my post very carefully. My point is this: actual Raspberry Pi orders equalled the claimed production run for the C64x (to say nothing of whatever the total is for actual C64x sales) on the first day.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 28, 2012, 06:09:06 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690661
Shutup,

Put your $$$$ to invest in the brand, company, acquiring the rights. Just because you bought the computer. I been an owner of Commodore computer as far back as the 80s. You have no invested interest in the IP.

Your interest is selfish and to your own personal gain. You don't believe anyone should buy and make money on the brand or that they are going to be some 1 hour a month bull **** business that does nothing. You guys don't buy new hardware.

If you can't really make Jens Schonfeld and others what their economic worth it, then I would have a hard time believing your intent to support. Even then, it is hard to classify him and some of these folks real businesses. They are supporting quasi-businesses. As for thee hobby and quasi-projects... It will only go so long and then what?  Maybe it is ti e the old hw is museum piece while you enjoy the spirit of it via emulation. Oh wait.... You already do that...well most of you.

How many of you use this for real life serious business and professional work use. If there is 100s of members registered to this forum and only a few talk, that isn't enough. 2-3 out of a 100... How many of you is it just a pass time weekend hobby. How much is it serious daily business and work use.

Well you've just shown the entire forum what an uneducated retard you are  :lol:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: dammy on April 28, 2012, 06:16:57 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690887
Same old excuse, it is always someone else's fault.

So are you confirming that Leo is a liar?  Thanks.  We'll save this quote too under "Dammy confirms that C-USA CTO spreads lies".

Cheers.


Damn you are a nasty person so no, that is not correct.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 06:52:32 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690888
I don't think you read my post very carefully. My point is this: actual Raspberry Pi orders equalled the claimed production run for the C64x (to say nothing of whatever the total is for actual C64x sales) on the first day.


Exactly; this was my point as well. I'm glad someone else got it, in amongst all of the trolling.

Raspberry Pi are showing Commodore USA how it should be done. Make it simple, make it cheap but capable, make it so that people can tinker with it and let them loose with it.

This was the concept behind the first home 8-bit computers, like the Acorn and Spectrum as well as the C64 orignal.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Middleman on April 28, 2012, 06:59:46 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;690817
Ok I am seriously lacking sleep. I have been up nearly 24hr and this might not be the most sensible post ever written. So appologies up front.

What I don't get is why Barry, or anyone from Commodore USA, officially affiliated or not, feels they need to come and try to convince us that they are the next best thing since sliced bread. Especially as how barry has stated in the past that he is not interested in the opinions from our "muddy little pond".

At the end of the day people will buy these machines. Regardless of what we or other people would say. Why?

Maybe they believe the hype. Maybe the think that this is the real return of commodore. Hell they may be influenced by nostalgia alone. But people will buy these things regardless.

So let them. Let them spend their money on what ever they feel like. Just please let's stop this silly bickering now. As much as I like to pick faults in their products, like woefully inadequate PSU's, I feel its getting to the point were its become more a personal attack rather than sensible discussion.


I agree....all this bickering is stupid, but maybe necessary so we can see/discuss how things are/could work out.

However there is one vital issue nobody seems to have picked upon, and that is the IP holder's role in all of this, in this case Hyperion and H&P. I know that they've done a lot of work over the years to improve the overall compatibility and user experience, but truthfully they have been holding back the community by sticking with the PPC route, holding onto their IPs so tightly and not going onto x86 or even ARM which have more powerful chips. As someone said had Bernie been given the money to port over Amithlon properly to x86 perhaps we would have had our dream machine today...


Also there's one last thing I must correct you here about CUSA and that is, Barry DOES ship different power PSUs for the different required specs. He has acknowledged this was a mistake with the specs page they published as he has confirmed here, so you/others who have ordered the Amiga Mini have nothing to worry about.... > http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/14400-any-news-to-share?limit=15&start=15#14511 (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/14400-any-news-to-share?limit=15&start=15#14511)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 07:32:30 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690844
Okay, now where are you getting the $6-8 million figure for CUSA from? What reason do we have to believe that they sold 10,000 C64xes in the past year? Nothing from them, certainly.


Every one of those first 10,000 were sold because they had to get a second batch. The $6-8 million figure accounts for also sales of the other products as well. CommodoreUSA got a lot more media attention and public awareness and ultimately purchases then every current hardware developer in the Commodore and classic Amiga community has ever been able to muster.

There was 250,000 C64DTVs in sold in the first batch. So, giving a reference of price difference of the DTV being 1/20th that of the initial price of the C64x. It would be reasonable that something at 20x the price is going to sell at about 1/20th the quantity.

If 10,000 units sold, you are talking $5,950,000 in gross revenue income. I didn't say profit. So, $6 million is a fair minimal. Lets add to that factor the other products ordered.

So even if 2/3 of the c64x were sold but there is also the other products as well. In short, $6-8 million is reasonable.

There is some royalties that has to be accounted for. I believe in the netherlands between asiarim, commodore licensing bv, commodore holding bv and all that convoluted money handling... I am venture to make a estimated guess based on royalties and some of the information gleaned from it.

The information is like a gestalt pattern. Enough to give you a sense but still some missing information.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Pyromania on April 28, 2012, 07:56:15 PM
Millions in sales? Time for fairy tales again? In the future each machine will be delivered by Unicorn?

http://hol.abime.net/399/boxscan
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Framiga on April 28, 2012, 08:03:25 PM
Bill Gates and Dell! beware ... they are coming! :-)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 28, 2012, 08:11:54 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;690766
Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???


Well either they are telling lies or Mr BS can't afford to pay them :lol:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 08:13:41 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;690884
Point. And they sold out a 10,000 unit production run (C64x-size)...in seconds, on the first day.   :laugh1:

Are you on drugs? No way 10,000 people wanted a c64 case with a pc board crammed inside bad enough to spend that kind of cash.

Most c64 fans would just buy a real c64 from ebay for 30$

c64 was a fantastically lovely computer. But a pc with an emulator and a c64 shell? I just don't see 10,000 people (in seconds) buying that.


There were over 6 million Commodore 8 bit and Amiga users/households world wide while Commodore was alive. There were 250,000 c64DTV solds. I think worldwide, 10,000 is reasonable.

Most bought it because they can have a computer that does real co,puter work to contemporary computing needs not 30 years and not half-ass. You got WYSIWYG with 16 million color word programs. What is printed is usually close to what you see. Mostly ink to light differences. In any case, you can do real stuff but most of those may have bought it for having a modern pc in a c64 style case with a good flavor of Linux with real computing and programming capability BUT you don't have to program Linux to use it. They have user interfaces like every other major OS like windows and mac osx. It is also produced by respectively legitimate licensee of the trademark and brand.

Of the 6 million individual users in the peak and probably closer to 10-12 million distinct individuals having bought c64s and a number of them were the bulk of Amiga purchasers. There is others who didn't get a Commodore back in the day that wanted one and probably had got one near the end or second hand shortly after 1994/1995 and then was part of the community when the community was closer to a million active users and they left with the mass progressive exodus between 1995-2000. Those years had huge impacts on the Commodore community. There is not remotely that many Commodore and Amiga users active. I have not seen much of any computer hardware product from anyone other than CMD that sold more than 250 in a 1-3 year span. How many hardware products other than x-cables and other cheap cales made by many different hobbyists and vendors, sold in the order of 1000+.

Anyone ?

The life blood of any business to be in business is to have cash revenues. Other than what can be said as tax fraud are you making profit. Deliberately making products knowing you never make a profit on is not something that can be lawfully used as business loss on taxes. Deliberately making a business loss and getting the IRS to reward you for that... Is definitely an abuse of the system and best described as a form of tax fraud.

I am not sure about the other countries but I would think they would have measures to come in with police force, break your legs and throw in jail while waiting for years to get a trial and even then it is a kangaroo court.

The hobby 'business' maybe more relaxed on these issues but to be a business.. The bottom line must be kept in mind.

For a developer to make this something of a full-time business, you better make the money or you better have a serious trust fund or win the PCH $5000 a week for life or the big lottery or a government supporting your living expenses (social security, welfare, etc.). Then yeah, I can see you doing this for nothing.

The majority of us don't have that and every hour spent on producing something must be accounted for.

Can any of you really be able to support customers daily and spend 40 hours a week or more running a business dedicated to the Commodore and Amiga classic systems developing hardware and software as commercialware?

I think we agree that is not a reality at this point in time and probably not for any foreseeable future.

I know people have came to accustom of waiting 10 years for an order to be fulfilled.

Lets think about this for a moment. Some of you might know what I am referring to.

One of the challenges for me to purchase stuff from hobbyist is I am not in any desire to wait 10 years for an order to be fulfilled and it never gets fulfilled. I want something in a reasonable timeframe fulfilled. I can handle a few months from a hobbyist. It depends of course.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:15:26 PM
Quote from: dammy;690890
Damn you are a nasty person so no, that is not correct.


Actually I'm a very nice person.  Ask anybody who has met me.  Probably because I'm an honest person and honesty is something you appear to know very little about.

So, what YOU said and what I interpreted from it is absolutely correct.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: Middleman;690898
I agree....all this bickering is stupid, but maybe necessary so we can see/discuss how things are/could work out.


You know how.  Stop the lies and just bugger off and sell you Linux PCs without the Amiga logo.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:18:08 PM
Quote from: Middleman;690898
Also there's one last thing I must correct you here about CUSA and that is, Barry DOES ship different power PSUs for the different required specs. He has acknowledged this was a mistake with the specs page they published as he has confirmed here, so you/others who have ordered the Amiga Mini have nothing to worry about.... > http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/14400-any-news-to-share?limit=15&start=15#14511 (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/14400-any-news-to-share?limit=15&start=15#14511)


So someone who has the reputation for telling "porkies" has told you that he sells different PSUs for different configurations and we shouldn't worry about it.

Wow, I just get that warm fuzzy feeling all over.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:21:37 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690907
There were over 6 million Commodore 8 bit and Amiga users/households world wide while Commodore was alive. There were 250,000 c64DTV solds. I think worldwide, 10,000 is reasonable.

Most bought it because they can have a computer that does real co,puter work to contemporary computing needs not 30 years and not half-ass. You got WYSIWYG with 16 million color word programs. What is printed is usually close to what you see. Mostly ink to light differences. In any case, you can do real stuff but most of those may have bought it for having a modern pc in a c64 style case with a good flavor of Linux with real computing and programming capability BUT you don't have to program Linux to use it. They have user interfaces like every other major OS like windows and mac osx. It is also produced by respectively legitimate licensee of the trademark and brand.


This is the same sales pitch Bazza gave us when he first appeared.  What the real Commodore managed to do with tehir resources is not an indication of what C-USA could do or are even capable of doing.

Stop trying to take another company's success story and stable it to C-USA.

C-USA is simply an LLC start-up who have bought the rights to borrow the name (along with anybody else who also wants to buy the name).  In reality they are "Joe Bloggs who resells computers he buys cheap off teh interenet for a higher price".  They're just one step above an eBay store.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 08:21:38 PM
Christ on a bike.... this is like having a bird's eye view of Hitler's bunker in 1944, with everyone ranting and raving and moving imaginary armies around without realising than the war is lost and that the Russians are about to kick the door in.

You are all arguing tiny points of anal detail about how, where, when and what he did wrong without realising that Commodore USA has completely and utterly missed the point by a country mile. Analysing every bit of propaganda back and forth won't get you away from an inescapable truth; Barry couldn't sell water to a man on fire and still insists on trying to sell freezers to Eskimoes.

Most of us already have an uber PC that wipes the floor with anything he has cobbled together thus far, but Barry's market isn't necessarily us, is it? If he had his head nailed on properly, he would be trying to make a simple programmable PC for about the price of a Nintendo DS, in order to try and interest our kids in something other than games.

Schools are also starting to talk about teaching proper computing again and this is what could create his new market, if could see the wood for the bloody trees in the way. If our kids start wanting to learn programming, that could be a potentially big market and we could all get to take our kids along on a similar journey that we all took to get where we are today.

By the way, Barry, this is the concept behind the Raspberry Pi, so if you are thinking of nicking it for your own use, make sure you do it properly, as your competitor already has a lead on you.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:26:23 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690901
Every one of those first 10,000 were sold because they had to get a second batch. The $6-8 million figure accounts for also sales of the other products as well. CommodoreUSA got a lot more media attention and public awareness and ultimately purchases then every current hardware developer in the Commodore and classic Amiga community has ever been able to muster.


Thank you for this pearl.

First you state you have no connection to C-USA.  Then you admit you met Barry and now you try and tell us that you have detailed information regarding their sales.

So, are you lying that you have a business (or soon to be) business connection with C-USA?

Are you lying when you say you are certain they sold all 10,000 units (unlike teh 100,000 figure they had thrown around)?

Let me give you the benefit of the doubt here.  I think you're lying on both account.  I believe you are hoping to open a Commodore franchise and I believe you have no proof whatsoever that 10,000 C64x computers were sold.

In short, you, Middleman and Dammy are here under orders to try and do some damage repair and you're urinating into the wind.

Still, at least you're entertaining.  Every post you guys make just opens up more and more holes in the C-USA sage of lies.  Keep it up.  Everything you say will be taken down and used in evidence against you.  :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:27:25 PM
Quote from: WotTheFook;690915
You are all arguing tiny points of anal detail about how, where, when and what he did wrong without realising that Commodore USA has completely and utterly missed the point by a country mile. Analysing every bit of propaganda back and forth won't get you away from an inescapable truth; Barry couldn't sell water to a man on fire and still insists on trying to sell freezers to Eskimoes.


LOL.  A brilliant summary.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:32:30 PM
Oh, and I should point out that while I'm certain that C-USA is currently a money-pit and the losses are substantial, Barry is absorbing a lot of this ebcause he can write-off the LLC loses against his overall taxes for the year.

The problem you face is that year one is over and now we're in year two.  IIRC you can only write off your company losses for 2 years and then they're your problem (I'm not sure of the exact period because I've only ever owned 2 comapnies and neither of them has ever made a loss).

The clock is ticking to CONvince people to invest, before it has to be shut down.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 08:36:46 PM
If there's this much arguing about how many units sold and how much money went where and on what, I bet the IRS are going to need Stephen Hawking to explain Barry's accounts to them....
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 08:38:14 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690901
Every one of those first 10,000 were sold because they had to get a second batch. The $6-8 million figure accounts for also sales of the other products as well. CommodoreUSA got a lot more media attention and public awareness and ultimately purchases then every current hardware developer in the Commodore and classic Amiga community has ever been able to muster.
Do you have a source for this? Every time I've asked about sales figures, they've declined to respond, and they certainly haven't announced anything about a second run here.

Quote
There was 250,000 C64DTVs in sold in the first batch. So, giving a reference of price difference of the DTV being 1/20th that of the initial price of the C64x. It would be reasonable that something at 20x the price is going to sell at about 1/20th the quantity.
They're entirely different markets, produced and sold in entirely different ways by entirely different companies. There is absolutely no correlation between the two. Do you have a source for any of this, or is this more making up of stuff?

Quote
If 10,000 units sold, you are talking $5,950,000 in gross revenue income. I didn't say profit. So, $6 million is a fair minimal. Lets add to that factor the other products ordered.
I'm not quibbling about the math - I'm still stuck on that "if 10,000 units are sold" bit. Have 10,000 units been sold? Where did you get that information?

Quote from: Wildstar128;690907
There were over 6 million Commodore 8 bit and Amiga users/households world wide while Commodore was alive. There were 250,000 c64DTV solds. I think worldwide, 10,000 is reasonable.
Whether you think it's reasonable is entirely irrelevant to the question of what actually happened in the real world, sales-wise, in the past year. Do you have any insight on that question that the rest of us don't? Unfounded guesswork is not a convincing argument.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:39:25 PM
Quote from: WotTheFook;690919
If there's this much arguing about how many units sold and how much money went where and on what, I bet the IRS are going to need Stephen Hawking to explain Barry's accounts to them....


LOL.  Christ, I bet an audit of the accounts would tie up the entire IRS for years.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:43:06 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;690920
Whether you think it's reasonable is entirely irrelevant to the question of what actually happened in the real world, sales-wise, in the past year. Do you have any insight on that question that the rest of us don't? Unfounded guesswork is not a convincing argument.


and don't forget those C64 joysticks were sold on QVC and were extremely cheap.  I know because I bought one off QVC at the time, used it a couple of times, gave it to my kids who then threw it in the closet once the batteries ran out and went back to their Windows PCs, PS3 and Wii.  :D

Let us also look at the C-USA expenses.

The Tron advertising must have cost around $20,000.  Their "business center" (tiny shop in a mall) must run them $1500 a day, their employees are at least on minimum wage (so 1 guy at $10 and hour), the C64x design, protoypes and production run couldn't have been cheap.  So, take what few sales they managed and deduct their costs and you end up with a figure that probably rivals the economy of Greece.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 08:45:48 PM
Quote from: Pyromania;690903
Millions in sales? Time for fairy tales again? In the future each machine will be delivered by Unicorn?

http://hol.abime.net/399/boxscan


Millions isn't alot and is easily doable. First, Barry isn't someone with no money connections and financing. You think Barry is completely financed this out of dollars in his wallet? No. It is business venturing and numerous financial arrangements.

Barry knows how to run businesses and isn't someone who has never ran a business. He may not be the brightest individual in the world but experience and knowledge goes hand in hand. The other business like anything is equity to start up CommodoreUSA. Lets put it mildly, it is business and as such he is not going to run it like anything other than a business. Whatever issues or supporting of Commodore and Amiga classic has to be isolated from running down the revenues and incurring liability on the CommodoreUSA business end.

Otherwise, blowing $150k on making a bunch of boards for which only 50 on the planet will ever buy isn't going to be prudent. Investing $2k-3k.... Maybe but there is no paying for labor. So, $1k in labor maybe for $129-159 price. This way, you can reinvest and have profit and pay for time.

That is why the price doubling the cost is the strategy. You must nave a profit margin but bring cost down so the price is competitive.

If one is going to have real R&D then for one guy doing the job, we are talking $50k-100k for 20-40 hours a week  to bring a product to market. Do yourself a favor and look up what hardware engineers make at major companies for their time. An honest company would endeavor to pay their staff and contracted developers reasonable amount competitive to anyone else. We are talking $55k to $100k. If you got a $1 million is staffing expenses and 2-3 million in other expenses of operation. You need to make $5-6 million to break even to also address taxes. At this scale, we are talking to be viable - $10 Million revenue is a necessary for on-going operation and growth and that needs to increase at least 5% to stay up on the leading edge of inflation.

$10 Million may sound like a lot but that is still small.

$10 Billion is when you are up there with the big league.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 08:57:29 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690923
Barry knows how to run businesses and isn't someone who has never ran a business. He may not be the brightest individual in the world but experience and knowledge goes hand in hand.


Thanks Captain Obvious; I think most of us have already worked out that Barry probably knows a friend who has run a business but has never ran a business himself, from evidence seen thus far.

Experience and knowledge? In what, exactly? 'Photoshopping for Dummies', 'Plagarism Made Simple' and 'How To Use Ctrl-C And Ctrl-V For Fun and Profit' doesn't count as Marketing by any stretch of the imagination. I doubt that Barry could market condoms in a brothel properly.

The only bit of that statement you made that I actually believe is that Barry isn't the sharpest tool in the box. He's a chancer, a bull****ter who blows sunshine up people's arses so that they part with money. As for a business plan, there isn't one, we can all see that.

Barry needs to read the tale of The Emperor's New Clothes....
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 08:58:47 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690923
Millions isn't alot and is easily doable. First, Barry isn't someone with no money connections and financing. You think Barry is completely financed this out of dollars in his wallet? No. It is business venturing and numerous financial arrangements.

Barry knows how to run businesses and isn't someone who has never ran a business. He may not be the brightest individual in the world but experience and knowledge goes hand in hand. The other business like anything is equity to start up CommodoreUSA. Lets put it mildly, it is business and as such he is not going to run it like anything other than a business. Whatever issues or supporting of Commodore and Amiga classic has to be isolated from running down the revenues and incurring liability on the CommodoreUSA business end.

Otherwise, blowing $150k on making a bunch of boards for which only 50 on the planet will ever buy isn't going to be prudent. Investing $2k-3k.... Maybe but there is no paying for labor. So, $1k in labor maybe for $129-159 price. This way, you can reinvest and have profit and pay for time.

That is why the price doubling the cost is the strategy. You must nave a profit margin but bring cost down so the price is competitive.

If one is going to have real R&D then for one guy doing the job, we are talking $50k-100k for 20-40 hours a week  to bring a product to market. Do yourself a favor and look up what hardware engineers make at major companies for their time. An honest company would endeavor to pay their staff and contracted developers reasonable amount competitive to anyone else. We are talking $55k to $100k. If you got a $1 million is staffing expenses and 2-3 million in other expenses of operation. You need to make $5-6 million to break even to also address taxes. At this scale, we are talking to be viable - $10 Million revenue is a necessary for on-going operation and growth and that needs to increase at least 5% to stay up on the leading edge of inflation.

$10 Million may sound like a lot but that is still small.

$10 Billion is when you are up there with the big league.


You must be wearing thigh-high rubber boots to be wading through that much BS.

Want to names some of these "business arrangements" so we can call them and check?  Thought not.

Remember, here's the pic that was "supposed" top be C64X mobos:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/mobos.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Digiman on April 28, 2012, 09:01:32 PM
Quote from: Middleman;690780
1) I think Barry has given a fair and balanced interview. He is being pretty honest here IMHO and is hiding nothing here save any legal trade agreements they have with their business partners AFAIK….


He failed to answer some key questions, and his rebuke in each case was childish and unprofessional but evasive in those instances.


Quote from: Middleman;690780
2) He is being realistic about the market situation and for the company in general - that for a reborn Commodore to survive, it has to make products that are relevant to the market and on-par tech wise with the best that is out there. Being Linux and Windows-compatible is one way to secure that future (or at least the funds for that future). Though not agreeing with 'legacy Amiga purists' going the x86 route now is the most logically sound route for the company at present.


We stated the bare minimum was for something akin to the effort put into C64x. A freely engraved case purchased from Wesena China is not remotely anything Amiga related and the i7 based motherboard is AROS incompatible.

Commodore OS is a complete joke. Linux and ugly skin is nothing to do with any Amiga OS. If it can't run Amiga source code natively with zero emulation as Amithlon or AROS do on x86 hardware is certainly isn't anything remotely related to the Amiga.


Quote from: Middleman;690780
3) Had made some points which are very logical from a business perspective (which again may upset some Amiga fans here) but is the truth. Computers have come a long way since the Amiga days of producing customized chips, and the parts today are pretty much commoditized. To go against what the general market wants is financial suicide.


The only thing Mr BS is doing is pointing out he has nothing more than an AROS incompatible Linux box with a licensed Amiga logo engraved for free on Wesena HTPC mini ITX cases.

We don't want to buy such a machine which has nothing to do with Amiga in any way at all from any possible perspective anyone who ever used/owned/wanted an Amiga will have.

Even MorphOS, OS4 and AROS boxes aren't technically Amiga machines just a development to allow AHI/RTG system software to run without actual UAE/WinUAE emulation.



Quote from: Middleman;690780
4) interesting points have been made in regards to how 'he sees' the Amiga brand, namely that it is a performance brand, and the old ideas were simply 'a concept'. In this day and age somehow he is right about it I feel….you don't see people using customized chipsets anymore save retro sites like A.org…..


His Amiga Mini has zero expansion capabilities and very sub standard graphics horsepower. So if we are going to talk about conceptual re-imagining of a machine then this 100% reliance on the fast i7 CPU to make up for lack of graphical hardware acceleration of the low end GPU on the motherboard (and no space to add a $400 PCI-E graphics card in that case) then what he has created is a virtual Atari Mega ST at best.

Like we said HTPC forces you to use on board sub optimal GPU in the machine's casing and this leads to a PC that will be basically the same as an off the shelf $400 PC performance wise. If he had thought this out better he would have chosen AMD technology with superior GPU performance built into the CPU cores on a single chip. Or of course built an A1000/A3000 case and allowed room for people to put extremely powerful graphics cards in such machines. As it stands the technical limitations of the Amiga Mini computer make it suitable only for little teenage girls who spend all day on Windows Live Messenger or Facebook or Youtube and may run a copy of Barbie and Ken. Your Amiga Mini will not even run the 2005 game of the year Battlefield 2. Your specs, CPU aside, are actually circa 2003

ergo everything he said was a load of BS and this is because all he can afford to do is sell rubbish HTPC machines for excessively high price with a free engraving service to make the most of uncle Bill's license to use the brand!


Quote from: Middleman;690780

To be fair, after looking at the answers after his reply, I think the Amiga community in general I think is being too harsh on his company, and being too pessimistic about certain things a little too early. He has said he is a small company slowly working to rebuild the Commodore and Amiga brands. As  Leo has mentioned many times before Rome wasn't built in a day…..

CUSA I believe is doing things right - it's not doing anything 'wrong' except maybe have slightly more expensive offerings in some product lines to Apple? But even then it's coming down cheap.
I just heard they launched the new Vic Mini the other day….and that's a completely new product to the last one (which I remembered was similar to the Amiga Mini)….


We are not being harsh, the only bad mouthed delusional people around this place are the secret C=USA groupies that hang round here lately.

Their cases are badly chosen, the design nothing to do with Amiga case designs any time between 1985 and 1994, the limited expandibility of chosen cases embarrassing (no chance of PCI cards in there), their motherboard choice is not even compatible with AROS.

So you tell me, how is anything he has done not anything I couldn't have done in an afternoons work? And we are supposed to be interested?

The gospel of B[ull]S[hit] is not worshipped here. And his groupies (or him in disguise) coming here and insulting people will not help his cause.

1. Amigans wouldn't use the Amiga Mini for a doorstop.
2. Regular Joe Public would not pay the price for that, rather an ASUS EEE PC

My take on this is that the C64x was a commercial disaster for him due to the bespoke case and custom keyboard and now his anger and lack of available cash has forced him to selotape an Amiga logo on an unsuitable chinese HTPC computer and he is angry this will also be a failure.

Had he bothered to make even just an A500/1200 style case and use a standard PC full size keyboard in there and sold those two parts together at a reasonable price he may have a viable business. As it stands OTHER people will do a better job than him of this and it may be that this is all people are interested in due to the need to have suitable business contacts to produce such esoteric items today in a world of Dell/ASUS PCs for peanuts at PC World.

Amiga Mini is neither

1. Unique looking.
2. Unique in hardware under the case.
3. Unique in ability to run Amiga related OS like AROS
4. Keenly priced
5. Anything that people who have two hands couldn't build for half the price identically

RIP C=USA. I give them 12 months before the whole thing shuts down due to bad management and product selection giving rise to death of his business.

My advice to them, and this is coming from someone who has sold over 2000 computers to earn my living before I have any more business lessons lol, is to discount the C64x and start promoting it.

Lack of 9 pin joystick to USB adaptors aside it is the only product they have which is remotely saleable and the only issue potentially interested parties have is the price. So drop the price by 40% and they might stave off bankruptcy.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 09:03:58 PM
@ Wildstar128

In summary:

How C-USA views the Amiga community:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/Ant20Farm.jpg)

How the Amiga community views C-USA and its henchmen:
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/stoner-791927.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 09:10:05 PM
@ Wildstar / Middleman and all of the other "CUSA Defence League" members...

(I'd love to see a film made with that title LOL)

Have you tried introducing Barry to a Market Research course? If not, some of his cash that is going down the gurgler at a rate of knots may be well spent in hiring some market researchers before it's too late....

Here's a hint for free; Eskimoes don't need freezers.....
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690916
Thank you for this pearl.

First you state you have no connection to C-USA.  Then you admit you met Barry and now you try and tell us that you have detailed information regarding their sales.

So, are you lying that you have a business (or soon to be) business connection with C-USA?

Are you lying when you say you are certain they sold all 10,000 units (unlike teh 100,000 figure they had thrown around)?

Let me give you the benefit of the doubt here.  I think you're lying on both account.  I believe you are hoping to open a Commodore franchise and I believe you have no proof whatsoever that 10,000 C64x computers were sold.

In short, you, Middleman and Dammy are here under orders to try and do some damage repair and you're urinating into the wind.

Still, at least you're entertaining.  Every post you guys make just opens up more and more holes in the C-USA sage of lies.  Keep it up.  Everything you say will be taken down and used in evidence against you.  :)


How about actually read what I said instead of changing it. Quote exactly what I said.

I do not work for them. What does that say? I am not an employee of CommodoreUSA. I said I talked to Barry. Talked can mean over the phone. I talked to him because of 1) curiosity, 2) get an idea of how things are going, 3) as it maybe, I may endeavor to do business with. NOTE: Don't make assumptions as nothing is decided on and additionally, Don't assume what that maybe.

For me, this is not about me making money or being paid. There has never been a paycheck of any kind.  I simply don't support the ignorant, distorted statements from this forum.

The fact is, you distrorted what I said. You made claims out of what I said that is not what I said.

I have challenged you guys to make a serious proposal that makes sense business wise to support Commodore and Amiga users that can answer concerns of bank lenders and the likes. Do any of you ever done that? I am pretty sure the banks aren't just going to willy nilly give you $10k, $100k, $1 million, or $10 Million for R&D research unless you answer some serious questions on a financial level. This is what is known as speculative. Your investing someone elses money in hopes of more but at least break even. Doing this is akin very much to speculative housing development. Some of the same financial framework is involved. Certainly there are differences in the technical aspects but on the overall framework, it is a gamble. What do you have as equity to offset if you fall short. These are big deals and this is also where the lawsuits comes into play.

If you understand that, then I would expect there to be some sort of real, serious and professional proposal documents with cited research.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 09:15:32 PM
How C-USA sees The Amiga Community, versus how we see CUSA; can you work out which is which...??
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 28, 2012, 09:16:15 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690933
This is what is known as speculative.
Coming from you, of all people, this is pretty hilarious. Got any numbers to back up your guesses yet?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 09:26:34 PM
i7 is just x86-64. How is AROS incompatible to the i7.

AROS already has drivers that runs on every video card since 2000 at least and when standardize 16 Million color video modes at every standard SVGA video modes vs. Wide screen which needs adjustments.

Basically, you will simply get un-optimized video output. I wouldn't call it incompatible but then AROS is barely PC compatible to begin with given the lack of drivers and slow development which isn't bad for a small group but you don't have the resource and drivers.

In fact, I booted AROS within the windows computer at the college computers here and I believe they are i7 but maybe just the dual core models.


Quote from: Digiman;690930
He failed to answer some key questions, and his rebuke in each case was childish and unprofessional but evasive in those instances.

We stated the bare minimum was for something akin to the effort put into C64x. A freely engraved case purchased from Wesena China is not remotely anything Amiga related and the i7 based motherboard is AROS incompatible.

Commodore OS is a complete joke. Linux and ugly skin is nothing to do with any Amiga OS. If it can't run Amiga source code natively with zero emulation as Amithlon or AROS do on x86 hardware is certainly isn't anything remotely related to the Amiga.

The only thing Mr BS is doing is pointing out he has nothing more than an AROS incompatible Linux box with a licensed Amiga logo engraved for free on Wesena HTPC mini ITX cases.

We don't want to buy such a machine which has nothing to do with Amiga in any way at all from any possible perspective anyone who ever used/owned/wanted an Amiga will have.

Even MorphOS, OS4 and AROS boxes aren't technically Amiga machines just a development to allow AHI/RTG system software to run without actual UAE/WinUAE emulation.

His Amiga Mini has zero expansion capabilities and very sub standard graphics horsepower. So if we are going to talk about conceptual re-imagining of a machine then this 100% reliance on the fast i7 CPU to make up for lack of graphical hardware acceleration of the low end GPU on the motherboard (and no space to add a $400 PCI-E graphics card in that case) then what he has created is a virtual Atari Mega ST at best.

Like we said HTPC forces you to use on board sub optimal GPU in the machine's casing and this leads to a PC that will be basically the same as an off the shelf $400 PC performance wise. If he had thought this out better he would have chosen AMD technology with superior GPU performance built into the CPU cores on a single chip. Or of course built an A1000/A3000 case and allowed room for people to put extremely powerful graphics cards in such machines. As it stands the technical limitations of the Amiga Mini computer make it suitable only for little teenage girls who spend all day on Windows Live Messenger or Facebook or Youtube and may run a copy of Barbie and Ken. Your Amiga Mini will not even run the 2005 game of the year Battlefield 2. Your specs, CPU aside, are actually circa 2003
(-- snip --)
We are not being harsh, the only bad mouthed delusional people around this place are the secret C=USA groupies that hang round here lately.

Lack of 9 pin joystick to USB adaptors aside it is the only product they have which is remotely saleable and the only issue potentially interested parties have is the price. So drop the price by 40% and they might stave off bankruptcy.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690933
How about actually read what I said instead of changing it. Quote exactly what I said.

I do not work for them. What does that say? I am not an employee of CommodoreUSA. I said I talked to Barry. Talked can mean over the phone. I talked to him because of 1) curiosity, 2) get an idea of how things are going, 3) as it maybe, I may endeavor to do business with. NOTE: Don't make assumptions as nothing is decided on and additionally, Don't assume what that maybe.

For me, this is not about me making money or being paid. There has never been a paycheck of any kind.  I simply don't support the ignorant, distorted statements from this forum.

The fact is, you distrorted what I said. You made claims out of what I said that is not what I said.

I have challenged you guys to make a serious proposal that makes sense business wise to support Commodore and Amiga users that can answer concerns of bank lenders and the likes. Do any of you ever done that? I am pretty sure the banks aren't just going to willy nilly give you $10k, $100k, $1 million, or $10 Million for R&D research unless you answer some serious questions on a financial level. This is what is known as speculative. Your investing someone elses money in hopes of more but at least break even. Doing this is akin very much to speculative housing development. Some of the same financial framework is involved. Certainly there are differences in the technical aspects but on the overall framework, it is a gamble. What do you have as equity to offset if you fall short. These are big deals and this is also where the lawsuits comes into play.

If you understand that, then I would expect there to be some sort of real, serious and professional proposal documents with cited research.


How about you listen to us instead.  95% of what you type is irrelevant and you've now passed the point where we don't believe a word you say.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 09:37:55 PM
@ WildSpeculation128

Do you work in CUSA's Marketing or Accounting departments, by any chance...??

The crucial bit that Barry is missing is his Business Plan. "This time next year, we'll all be millionaires" isn't a business plan. Neither is charging $$$$ for overpriced rebranded stuff that you can get via eBay.

When you can get CUSA to come back from Fantasy Island, maybe you can get Barry to move beyond his 'concept' and 'vision' and get him to explain his business plan to us. You know, the plan that got him the funding to try and sell what he's done so far?

We don't need to explain it - CUSA does, though....

Other than that, GTFO.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: WotTheFook;690941
@ WildSpeculation128

Do you work in CUSA's Marketing or Accounting departments, by any chance...??

The crucial bit that Barry is missing is his Business Plan. "This time next year, we'll all be millionaires" isn't a business plan. Neither is charging $$$$ for overpriced rebranded stuff that you can get via eBay.

When you can get CUSA to come back from Fantasy Island, maybe you can get Barry to move beyond his 'concept' and 'vision' and get him to explain his business plan to us.

Other than that, GTFO.


I am not leaving this forum because you guys distort everything everyone says.

I have listen to you guys bull**** since 2003 since Tulip, Yeahronimo, and all the other guys. You guys can't ever be happy unless you owned the brand yourselves and will be literally killing each other. Grow up you sweaty, buttcrack showing, eating cold pizza and drinking jolt with your 1980s punk hair do while growing a beard techno-washouts.

I know you are tired of companies using the brand. If you want it... Buy it and do as you wish. Until then, play with your toys and be content. This forum and the whole Amiga community doesn't need anymore bull**** rants about Commodore USA.

Mods lock this thread. Lets agree to have no more inverviews on this forum about CommodoreUSA. No more discussing them exceptmfor within the designated subforums.
Ok.

Again Mods, lock this thread.





Either support CUSA or don't. Just stop being *******s to them.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 09:53:20 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690942
I am not leaving this forum because you guys distort everything everyone says.

I have listen to you guys bull**** since 2003 since Tulip, Yeahronimo, and all the other guys. You guys can't ever be happy unless you owned the brand yourselves and will be literally killing each other. Grow up you sweaty, buttcrack showing, eating cold pizza and drinking jolt with your 1980s punk hair do while growing a beard techno-washouts.

I know you are tired of companies using the brand. If you want it... Buy it and do as you wish. Until then, play with your toys and be content. This forum and the whole Amiga community doesn't need anymore bull**** rants about Commodore USA.

Mods lock this thread. Lets agree to have no more inverviews on this forum about CommodoreUSA. No more discussing them exceptmfor within the designated subforums.
Ok.

Again Mods, lock this thread.

Either support CUSA or don't. Just stop being *******s to them.


LOL.  Is it 3am again?

I think you mean that we've caught you out (just like the rest of the C-USA drones) and now your teddie is being thrown into the corner.

Thanks for coming.

Thanks for trying to insult us.

Thanks for putting C-USA deeper into the poop.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 28, 2012, 09:53:56 PM
Enough of the personal insults.  Just enough.  If you want to view a differing viewpoint, do it in a civil fashion.  You aren't going to "convert the heathens" here.  The "Heathens" are quite happy with their little retro hobby, cold pizza and Jolt.

It's beyond me why a mod hasn't banned your account for the personal insults/abuse factors.

Laughable really.  At least when Franko was going off the rails and being abusive, he was factual and funny.  You are just being an abusive bore.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 09:54:59 PM
The rest of the Amiga community that is doing something other then making b.s. Noise, congrats to you for keeping out of the noise and actually doing stuff.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 09:56:33 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690946
The rest of the Amiga community that is doing something other then making b.s. Noise, congrats to you for keeping out of the noise and actually doing stuff.


I thought you had gone.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 28, 2012, 09:59:02 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690942
Mods lock this thread. Lets agree to have no more inverviews on this forum about CommodoreUSA. No more discussing them exceptmfor within the designated subforums.
Ok.

Again Mods, lock this thread.



see the problem? (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=685368&postcount=22)

Apparently, BillP, TeddG, and Karlos all have differing ideas on how to administer this topic.


#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 10:00:20 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690942
I am not leaving this forum because you guys distort everything everyone says.


I mean this is a constructive way, believe me.

CUSA have not been without their own share of distortions and truth-bending. The question that needs answering is this one; who distorted the truth first...??
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 10:01:40 PM
Wildstar, Middleman, Dammy and Leo say "Goodnight boys and girls, we don't want to play anymore."
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/darrin01311/sootysweep090606_350x300.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 10:08:39 PM
"I didn't come here for an argument!"
"Yes you did!"
"No I didn't!!"

/monty python
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 10:12:44 PM
Quote from: Duce;690945
Enough of the personal insults.  Just enough.  If you want to view a differing viewpoint, do it in a civil fashion.  You aren't going to "convert the heathens" here.  The "Heathens" are quite happy with their little retro hobby, cold pizza and Jolt.

It's beyond me why a mod hasn't banned your account for the personal insults/abuse factors.

Laughable really.  At least when Franko was going off the rails and being abusive, he was factual and funny.  You are just being an abusive bore.


Duce,

Show me what the price is for the FPGA and all its components and the PCB at volumes production at 100, 1000, 10,000 and 100,000 unit batch order volume.

I want to see a viable and sustainable business plan for running a full operating business supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics. I have not seen anything that allows for paid employees or even paying the owner a salary of any kind in a long time.

On a mainstream level, I am trying to figure out a way to get the volume produced at a price that won't cause it to be market designated into the console market or the desktop computer market just as the C64DTV was. If I was in charge of Commodore USA, I would need it to be in the market with the Atari Flashback 2 in order to sell without having to have the CPU clocks per cycles and memory in terms of MBytes per $1 as a modern PC and game consoles.

Of course, if you can seriously contend with a PPC Amiga x1000 type system that can be sold for under $199 and compete with every game console on the market or soon to be on the market within $2 years then maybe it might work if you got the games.

Maybe but there got to be modern software and games or you have a worse issue then the CD32.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 10:16:29 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690955
Duce,

Show me what the price is for the FPGA and all its components and the PCB at volumes production at 100, 1000, 10,000 and 100,000 unit batch order volume.

I want to see a viable and sustainable business plan for running a full operating business supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics. I have not seen anything that allows for paid employees or even paying the owner a salary of any kind in a long time.

On a mainstream level, I am trying to figure out a way to get the volume produced at a price that won't cause it to be market designated into the console market or the desktop computer market just as the C64DTV was. If I was in charge of Commodore USA, I would need it to be in the market with the Atari Flashback 2 in order to sell without having to have the CPU clocks per cycles and memory in terms of MBytes per $1 as a modern PC and game consoles.

Of course, if you can seriously contend with a PPC Amiga x1000 type system that can be sold for under $199 and compete with every game console on the market or soon to be on the market within $2 years then maybe it might work if you got the games.

Maybe but there got to be modern software and games or you have a worse issue then the CD32.


Why are you asking Duce?  Ask aCube as they have already done it (I have one).  Ask Jens as he's already doing it (I have one).  Ask MikeJ as he is actually doing it (I have one of his prototypes).

But then I've already explained this.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 10:23:10 PM
Therein lies the problem, Wildstar. Why does it have to be "mainstream"? What's wrong with being quirky and a little different? Why try and compete with too many things at the same time? Why try and sell the same thing into a saturated market, where you have no USP or differentiation? This is exactly why CUSA are shooting in the dark with their ideas and have no clear idea of their target market.

Some of us on here have done sales and marketing....

If you are going back to grass-roots programming to teach the next generation how do program properly, you don't need an uber computer at all; even a netbook is over the top. The simpler it is, the easier it will be for people to understand how to program for it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 10:24:43 PM
Quote from: WotTheFook;690950
I mean this is a constructive way, believe me.

CUSA have not been without their own share of distortions and truth-bending. The question that needs answering is this one; who distorted the truth first...??


I am not going to go weed through a million posts on 3-5 different forums with most of them across all of them.

IIRC: I believe the issue belies misunderstanding. I don't remember that much of great reading comprehension among the Commodore and Amiga users still active that I have came to known and met in person and across the forums for over a decade time frame.

This isn't an intended as an insult but it is prevalent that people don't recall what someone says verbatim after less then a day. Already, proof above. I am guessing that it had become a bad case of misunderstanding from both parties and believe me, it is hard for keep calm when you read 10-15 pages full of insults.

I think it would be better if we strive to not get emotional with our responses and it takes all parties to make that happen.

It also makes it hard to tell and get the heads and tails of each response when there is so much vitriol.

Amiga community, can we all strive for less vitriol on our conduct. Lets forget who started what. Not worth it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: WotTheFook on April 28, 2012, 10:33:04 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690959
I am not going to go weed through a million posts on 3-5 different forums with most of them across all of them.

IIRC: I believe the issue belies misunderstanding. I don't remember that much of great reading comprehension among the Commodore and Amiga users still active that I have came to known and met in person and across the forums for over a decade time frame.

This isn't an intended as an insult but it is prevalent that people don't recall what someone says verbatim after less then a day. Already, proof above. I am guessing that it had become a bad case of misunderstanding from both parties and believe me, it is hard for keep calm when you read 10-15 pages full of insults.

I think it would be better if we strive to not get emotional with our responses and it takes all parties to make that happen.

It also makes it hard to tell and get the heads and tails of each response when there is so much vitriol.

Amiga community, can we all strive for less vitriol on our conduct. Lets forget who started what. Not worth it.


Hmm... It's not what people have said that is the problem, per se; It's more about what has been said in print from the horse's mouth from false statements and posting of plagarised photographs on websites, used as CUSA's advertising, that is the issue. If CUSA's executives can't remember what they told people on websites, then "Oh what a tangled web (heh) we weave, when first we practice to deceive.."

As you allude to in your post, people who tell porkies have to have a good memory.... and people don't like being lied to....
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 28, 2012, 10:34:18 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690959
I am not going to go weed through a million posts on 3-5 different forums with most of them across all of them.


You don't need to.  We've supplied some of them right here.

Quote
IIRC: I believe the issue belies misunderstanding. I don't remember that much of great reading comprehension among the Commodore and Amiga users still active that I have came to known and met in person and across the forums for over a decade time frame.


There was no misunderstanding.  It is a clear pattern of deliberate lies which has been ongoing for months.

What is also apparent is that you have no interest in admitting it.  You are here with an agenda.  Are yoiu being paid by the hour or by the post?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 10:41:26 PM
Quote from: WotTheFook;690958
Therein lies the problem, Wildstar. Why does it have to be "mainstream"? What's wrong with being quirky and a little different? Why try and compete with too many things at the same time? Why try and sell the same thing into a saturated market, where you have no USP or differentiation? This is exactly why CUSA are shooting in the dark with their ideas and have no clear idea of their target market.

Some of us on here have done sales and marketing....

If you are going back to grass-roots programming to teach the next generation how do program properly, you don't need an uber computer at all; even a netbook is over the top. The simpler it is, the easier it will be for people to understand how to program for it.


If the active Commodore and Amiga community was 100 times larger then it would be be more viable.

Part of the reason is Commodore USA doesn't have some angel putting in billion dollar venture capital that would allow it to do the R&D for a real product even if it is differentiated. The problem is that the digital computer industry is mature now. It is not a pioneering time anymore. They need to get started and get capital. If Barry had the venture capital and that you guys had a serious product that people would use daily for mainstream purpose then yeah.

Computers are like any other product or tool. It has to serve a purpose for which it is designed for. It must be usable to its purpose and ability first. The majority of people buy computers and other products because they need it. Most computer users use computers not program or develop for them. Most are not the geek crowd tinkering. Nothing wrong with that but that wasn't what Commodore Business Machines and Jack Tramiel was about. In fact, that was exactly the opposite. Computers for the masses not the classes. That was what it was about even in the post-Tramiel era even though they were confused with no leadership whatsoever but the only thing guiding them was the inertia of the C64 which Jack Tramiel and company had started. If Jack Tramiel stayed at Commodore, and he got Amiga.... Which would have happened. He would have brought Amiga out much akin to the C64 and c64 sales may have stopped or slown down faster to switch product and kind of followed a similar pattern between Apple II and Mac. At least the Amiga had color. There might not have been the 128 and the Amiga and PC line features would have been integrated so an Amiga would run intel software and x86 out of box and probably even the c64 would have been integrated in some way for backward compatibility as they consolidate the product lines and do it i expensively.

Amiga licensing may have happened at some point.

That is of course What if...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 10:46:03 PM
Quote from: Darrin;690961
You don't need to.  We've supplied some of them right here.

There was no misunderstanding.  It is a clear pattern of deliberate lies which has been ongoing for months.

What is also apparent is that you have no interest in admitting it.  You are here with an agenda.  Are yoiu being paid by the hour or by the post?


How many times do I have to tell you that I am not paid by CommodoreUSA whatsoever. I never had been paid by any of the Commodore entities. There is some of that by you and others on this. What is your reason?

Show me the very post this whole issue began. Not just thos thread but from when this whole animosity and issue began. Show me that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 28, 2012, 10:53:29 PM
Quote from: WotTheFook;690960
Hmm... It's not what people have said that is the problem, per se; It's more about what has been said in print from the horse's mouth from false statements and posting of plagarised photographs on websites, used as CUSA's advertising, that is the issue. If CUSA's executives can't remember what they told people on websites, then "Oh what a tangled web (heh) we weave, when first we practice to deceive.."

As you allude to in your post, people who tell porkies have to have a good memory.... and people don't like being lied to....


Alright, lets make it simple...

Put a list of the posts by Barry that you guys considered lies. The photo issue has been answered already. So, get over that one, guys. Does the factory really make that big of a difference. I do see some issue of not memorizing the issues or even recognizing the responses and selective listening and recall by someof the Amiga members here? What is their reason? Never mind, lets not waste time with that.

Simply put, I just simply want to see less emotionally driven vitriol on the matters of the discussions of this topic.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: number6 on April 28, 2012, 10:53:30 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690965
Show me the very post this whole issue began. Not just thos thread but from when this whole animosity and issue began. Show me that.



Barry Altman's first post in the community:

read the exchanges that follow...you decide (http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32205&forum=17&start=300&viewmode=flat&order=0#584867)

Personally, I think this is counter productive to your desire to leave this in the past, but you asked...

#6
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 29, 2012, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: number6;690969
Barry Altman's first post in the community:

read the exchanges that follow...you decide (http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=32205&forum=17&start=300&viewmode=flat&order=0#584867)

Personally, I think this is counter productive to your desire to leave this in the past, but you asked...

#6


Thanks for digging that up.

I hope Wildstar reads it all from page 1 (but I'm sure he already knows about it).  Then it is worth tracking down the other threads as they show more designed that are not theirs, insult customers, send insulting and threatening PMs, post the contents of private PMs, etc.

It should keep him busy for months.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: A1260 on April 29, 2012, 12:44:32 AM
Wildstar128=Barry

just admit it....
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: CritAnime on April 29, 2012, 12:54:00 AM
Also lets not forget this little nugget from Barry when the vic slims were been announced.
 
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/2528-vic-slim?limit=15&start=15&lang=en#4560
Quote
As far as how much we pay to have our VIC Slim manufactured: We currently pay US$ 297.40 (including duties & tariffs) for the barebones unit, and another $0.65 for air freight each. That totals $298.05. WE actually lose $3.05 on every unit we sell, but our long term plan is to make it up in volume.

This was the same thread that Barry also mentioned this when the question was asked about the vic slim pricing.
 
Quote
loaded, let me ask you a question first. Lets clarify. I'm not asking you how often you have sex, or if you have trouble performing. We already know that because we looked. I am asking what is your wife's favorite position, and does she really enjoy it? Since you seem to have no problem asking questions which no one in their right mind would ever ask, I thought you would have no trouble answering.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 12:55:32 AM
Quote from: A1260;690978
Wildstar128=Barry

just admit it....


Robert Bernardo, Jeri Ellsworth can certainly confirm to you that I am not Barry.

They actually met me in person. There are several others that can vouch that I am a different person.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 01:10:56 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690976
Thanks for digging that up.

I hope Wildstar reads it all from page 1 (but I'm sure he already knows about it).  Then it is worth tracking down the other threads as they show more designed that are not theirs, insult customers, send insulting and threatening PMs, post the contents of private PMs, etc.

It should keep him busy for months.


I will take my time looking at them. I can see how this devolved. I will have to read through it a few times as it takes a great deal to process this.

I do have some feelings that some of the responses were baseless and just part of childish, immaturity of some of the folks. Some claims were ridiculous.

I can say that Leo had stated a few things that might have been inappropriate in terms of claiming not that you won't wait x number of months. It was too open ended. Granted, they are only human running a business venture is unique and you make mistakes or decisions that might not have been the best or state things that might be a little loose with the mouth. Both Barry and Leo do have some looseness of the mouth. Maybe we all do.  Experience may limit those occurances.

I am not saying I am perfect either. I have been critiqued (ie. Ridiculed) about it. Someone here made a loose reference to percentage. This is why I don't use percentages about project status. It is also why I don't announce projects until they are done or ready for some review.

Anyway, the community often reacts far too volitile and with vitriol when it isn't really necessary. It is a problem with the "punk culture" which some of the community members come from. Sorry if the label offense anyone. It is meant to put into simple words that describes the culture and that was very popular among the demo scene.

This may certainly underly some of the cultural factors involved in the community that still is active.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 29, 2012, 01:11:09 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690980
Robert Bernardo, Jeri Ellsworth can certainly confirm to you that I am not Barry.

They actually met me in person. There are several others that can vouch that I am a different person.


I actually believe you on this bit.  Even after your couple of meltdowns, you're still a million times more polite than Barry would be by now.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 29, 2012, 01:17:46 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690981
I will take my time looking at them. I can see how this devolved. I will have to read through it a few times as it takes a great deal to process this.

I do have some feelings that some of the responses were baseless and just part of childish, immaturity of some of the folks. Some claims were ridiculous.

I can say that Leo had stated a few things that might have been inappropriate in terms of claiming not that you won't wait x number of months. It was too open ended. Granted, they are only human running a business venture is unique and you make mistakes or decisions that might not have been the best or state things that might be a little loose with the mouth. Both Barry and Leo do have some looseness of the mouth. Maybe we all do.  Experience may limit those occurances.

I am not saying I am perfect either. I have been critiqued (ie. Ridiculed) about it. Someone here made a loose reference to percentage. This is why I don't use percentages about project status. It is also why I don't announce projects until they are done or ready for some review.

Anyway, the community often reacts far too volitile and with vitriol when it isn't really necessary. It is a problem with the "punk culture" which some of the community members come from. Sorry if the label offense anyone. It is meant to put into simple words that describes the culture and that was very popular among the demo scene.

This may certainly underly some of the cultural factors involved in the community that still is active.


Have at it.  Also feel free to search for other threads started by "Dammy" on Amiga.org or by "Damocles" (as he likes to be called) on Amigaworld.net.

I warn you now that there is a mountain of stuff to wade through.  We don't call him "Spammy" for nothing.  :D
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 01:21:02 AM
Quote from: CritAnime;690979
Also lets not forget this little nugget from Barry when the vic slims were been announced.
 
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/2528-vic-slim?limit=15&start=15&lang=en#4560

 
This was the same thread that Barry also mentioned this when the question was asked about the vic slim pricing.


I would have to criticize him on being too cavelier and maybe too loose with the mouth and letting professionalism slip but people aren't expected to be perfect. Everybody has personality and so did Jack. Jack had his own way of speaking then again if we know anything about Jack Tramiel then we would know something about him. Barry is from a later generation and I believe Barry is not Jewish so that may play into how Jack is compared to Barry.

However, I don't see it much different then Sam's gaffes.

Barry, be careful of gaffes. There are some childish jerks in the world that would do anything to make a public scene to embarass a person in public.

Some of my poke and jabs on this forum is just that. After all, I got that from you guys.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 29, 2012, 01:21:07 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690923
Otherwise, blowing $150k on making a bunch of boards for which only 50 on the planet will ever buy isn't going to be prudent. Investing $2k-3k.... Maybe but there is no paying for labor. So, $1k in labor maybe for $129-159 price. This way, you can reinvest and have profit and pay for time.

That is why the price doubling the cost is the strategy. You must nave a profit margin but bring cost down so the price is competitive.

If one is going to have real R&D then for one guy doing the job, we are talking $50k-100k for 20-40 hours a week  to bring a product to market. Do yourself a favor and look up what hardware engineers make at major companies for their time. An honest company would endeavor to pay their staff and contracted developers reasonable amount competitive to anyone else. We are talking $55k to $100k. If you got a $1 million is staffing expenses and 2-3 million in other expenses of operation. You need to make $5-6 million to break even to also address taxes. At this scale, we are talking to be viable - $10 Million revenue is a necessary for on-going operation and growth and that needs to increase at least 5% to stay up on the leading edge of inflation.

$10 Million may sound like a lot but that is still small.

$10 Billion is when you are up there with the big league.

LOL. Where are you coming up with all these numbers? Yay for creative accounting! :hammer:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Kesa on April 29, 2012, 01:25:14 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690923
Millions isn't alot and is easily doable. First, Barry isn't someone with no money connections and financing. You think Barry is completely financed this out of dollars in his wallet? No. It is business venturing and numerous financial arrangements.

Barry knows how to run businesses and isn't someone who has never ran a business. He may not be the brightest individual in the world but experience and knowledge goes hand in hand. The other business like anything is equity to start up CommodoreUSA. Lets put it mildly, it is business and as such he is not going to run it like anything other than a business. Whatever issues or supporting of Commodore and Amiga classic has to be isolated from running down the revenues and incurring liability on the CommodoreUSA business end.


Actually this is my biggest complaint. My feeling is that he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to be a successful entreprenuer.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 01:27:37 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690983
Have at it.  Also feel free to search for other threads started by "Dammy" on Amiga.org or by "Damocles" (as he likes to be called) on Amigaworld.net.

I warn you now that there is a mountain of stuff to wade through.  We don't call him "Spammy" for nothing.  :D


I am aware of Spammy Dammy... LOL.

I don't think anyone at CommodoreUSA can really do much to stop what someone who is not employed by them in terms of what is said. Not even a copany like Microsoft. Don't assume. If you want to verify info, talk to Leo or Barry in a civil manner. Just ask what you want to know. Don't waste time on meaningless garbage and the other piss and vinegar. After all, it stinks up the place.

At least, we should strive to find civil measures to talk about these topics and keep it civil.

Fussing over spilled milk isn't worth the time. Enjoy your Commodore 8-bits, classic Amiga and PPC systems and your CUSA products if any of you purchases them. Just enjoy and have fun.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: CritAnime on April 29, 2012, 01:29:22 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690984
I believe Barry is not Jewish

Why would that have any bearing on how he reacts to criticism and comments? thats the biggest load of tosh I have read in a while :whack:
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 01:32:24 AM
Quote from: Kesa;690985
LOL. Where are you coming up with all these numbers? Yay for creative accounting! :hammer:


Look up salary of a computer hardware engineer. Assume a year's pay and if you get the guy working his or her butt off and get a product delivered.... Voila.

These numbers are based on practical norms. People like Jeri and Jens and Bil Herd would be paid in these numbers. The more drawn out your R&D and complex it is, the more it would be. I would recommend even higher budget for R&D of hardware electronics.

Modern software development isn't cheap either when you actually pay people for their time.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 01:39:14 AM
Quote from: CritAnime;690989
Why would that have any bearing on how he reacts to criticism and comments? thats the biggest load of tosh I have read in a while :whack:


You are misunderstanding the point. It may play in how someone talks and writes. Depending on generation and religious views might play into whether you would call someone an a--hole or refrain from those word usage. Most people in Jack's generation certainly used less vulgarity and name calling. Depending on what Jewish 'denomination' (sorry, I don't know the proper term for hebrew/jewish equivalent to christian denominations), that may play into how tight to certain social conduct standards one would hold themselves to.

It wasn't that important except the main point to be drawn is that may influence Jack in a different manner to Barry. This isn't to say anyone is good or bad person but simply about social customs.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 01:47:53 AM
Quote from: Kesa;690987
Actually this is my biggest complaint. My feeling is that he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to be a successful entreprenuer.


No one knows or has a given set of experience to be certain of being a successful entreprenuer. Entrepreneurship is like gamble. There is 1000s of recipes and each is different. If we based things on similar standards, would Jack Tramiel qualified in 1970s just before the KIM and PET. It is hard to say.

I have talked to Barry and I can attest to you that he does have a vast understanding of business. Being successful is not thing you can be guaranteed. You win some, you lose some. That is how life of a business works. How you deal with it... That is the test.

How you respond to the market. No one supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics can I say are really successful entreprenuers. Then, the have set the bar pretty low to something easy that they can do with a real job in day and part time hobby at night. Sorry for the pun.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 29, 2012, 01:58:46 AM
You don't understand why we participate in this hobby, I'm not about to waste my time with trying to explain the "hobby" aspect again and why money isn't a factor.  Just like it isn't to some guy that loves model steam locomotives, you can tell him his "tech" is old school, and chide him for spending a dime on it.  That does not detract from the fact he DOES spend money on it, and DOES enjoy it, and SOMEONE is on the business end of it providing services or goods to allow said enthusiast to keep at his hobby.

I'll ask again:  why are you still here?  I fail to see that you've done anything for many pages now other than sling personal insults towards the community, and quite frankly the mods are dropping the ball in a horrible fashion.  How are you helping the community, and A.org?

Kudos to the Jewish reference - nice to know you are a stereotyping racist, too.  Not sure why the constant Tramiel/Altman comparisons are going on - Tramiel did business practices that were bordering on illegal.  You are not only an abusive bore, but now a racist.  Wow.  Didn't think it'd get worse, but here we are.

RIP Tramiel, but I'll call that one like history has it down, and a wise man would have done his homework on Jack's little "takeover" history.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Middleman on April 29, 2012, 02:25:20 AM
Quote from: Darrin;690909
You know how.  Stop the lies and just bugger off and sell you Linux PCs without the Amiga logo.


Yeah I should shouldn't I……and if I do I'll probably make a tonne of dosh out of it and get my own villa in the Caribbean by the time I'm finished…..
Honestly, you got such a great imagination Darrin it has to be commended! I mean, seriously……it's so good you could be a successful writer! :D

Anyways you'll be glad to know (or not) I'm just staying right here for a little while longer because…….a) I don't like being intimidated and NOONE is going to force me to leave just because they disagree with what I say, so I'm not leaving and b) well I'd like to make use of my $30 bucks I donated to the site (or at least whatever's left of it).

Quote from: Darrin;690916
In short, you, Middleman and Dammy are here under orders to try and do some damage repair and you're urinating into the wind.


I came to the forum on my own accord in my own time….it wasn't an 'instruction' from Barry or anyone else. I came here because I enjoy the old machines just as much as you do, albeit maybe a bit forward looking on the hardware side as a fan. Plus I have tried to keep my posts here on CUSA as minimal as possible so not as to 'upset' anyone. So if anyone wants to keep the threads 'CUSA clean' as it were, don't ask me questions directly or quote my name in anything about them, and I won't bother to answer them in return….deal?

Quote from: Darrin;690916
Everything you say will be taken down and used in evidence against you.  :)


Wow deja vu, I thought this was supposed to be a democratic site…..



Also I would like to say something about this interview, especially to Duce, EDana and others who had doubts about Barry. It was YOU GUYS who was asking these questions about CUSA and the future of Amiga (or leadership as you call it), as well as from Transition etc. for an interview, so I did the favour and passed the message on to Barry. And now that you've got the answers from him where it's currently headed I'm just spellbound why there's all this vitriol and saying it's in deeper dodo than before. I just don't understand the logic…..

Also one thing about the 'Final Challenge' is that…….Barry messaged to me earlier during the interview, he wanted to make the dream come true for you guys in putting together your 'dream' vintage New Amiga ie. an Amiga with whatever spec you wanted in CUSA custom case as a one-off commemorative product that is not an Intel Amiga. But it was your failure to come up with the 500 orders from the community that led it to not work. If you said to Barry 'I want this with a PowerPC/FPCG board with a A1200 case, AmigaOS4 and this and this' and the numbers registered for the project were there including the needed deposits he would have happily obliged. And he still does. It still stands as far as I am aware….
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 02:42:29 AM
Quote from: Duce;690998
You don't understand why we participate in this hobby, I'm not about to waste my time with trying to explain the "hobby" aspect again and why money isn't a factor.  Just like it isn't to some guy that loves model steam locomotives, you can tell him his "tech" is old school, and chide him for spending a dime on it.  That does not detract from the fact he DOES spend money on it, and DOES enjoy it, and SOMEONE is on the business end of it providing services or goods to allow said enthusiast to keep at his hobby.

I'll ask again:  why are you still here?  I fail to see that you've done anything for many pages now other than sling personal insults towards the community, and quite frankly the mods are dropping the ball in a horrible fashion.  How are you helping the community, and A.org?

Kudos to the Jewish reference - nice to know you are a stereotyping racist, too.  Not sure why the constant Tramiel/Altman comparisons are going on - Tramiel did business practices that were bordering on illegal.  You are not only an abusive bore, but now a racist.  Wow.  Didn't think it'd get worse, but here we are.

RIP Tramiel, but I'll call that one like history has it down, and a wise man would have done his homework on Jack's little "takeover" history.


The insult slinging happened on both sides of this argument and you are not innocent either. I do believe because he was Jewish, it was customary to not use vulgarity or engaging in the kind of insult slinging as it would be breaking from one of the 10 commandments. That is the limit of that reference. That was simply a matter of difference. Some persisted the furthering, I believe I had already dealt withnthat point. Some aspects of Barry's conduct, yo would not see a jewish man of his generation doing. That is just a difference between Jack. NOthing more nothing less. Do you get the point so we are done with that point or are we going to simply fuss over.

I know the hobby part but no person can possibly get bank lending to support any of this. No venture capitalist on the planet has ever considered this platform viable since 1999. No one can ever break even on their time. Every person who engages in Commodore and Amiga development loses money including their time.

This is why you can't expect real businesses to support something because real businesses is about making money and profits. That is the purpose of a business entity vs. Doing something for a hobbu.

I have been using the Commodore and Amiga for hobby since about 13 years. When I did graphics for Spork64 for c64 with the group Retro64... That is a hobby. No money.

However, if I am to pay the bills and have food on the table and actually live and not literally starve to death or dehydration in a cardboard box then I better have an income either in working as an employee or running a business. Therefore a business can't be about something that makes no income or the income is so small that the years of time investment would never be paid off.  

When I do bulding design work, a business, for clients - it is not for charity. I have to make an income. I have stayed much out of computer software and hardware development because all the jobs have been exported to chinese and india exployees that works for $1.50 an hour withna life style of someone in U.S. for $15 an hour because everything costs 1/10th the amount of US currency in those countries as it costs innthe US for the same item.

How is that legitimate currency exchange. Well.... You can imagine that most of the companies have exported the work there because it cost them less.

That is only part of it. That only addresss lack of jobs other then database entry which I do not enjoy nor did I ever wanted to do. I was interested in the creative development side of things. The other aspect is nobody can make a living as an independent software programmer because no one is going to pay for software that doesn't take up an entire DVD with 3d graphics, cinematics and all the movie level production team requirements or a mega-scale office suite and the likes. If it is a <10-100 MB game with mostly still images and other basically, 2d software of small scale... You can't even get $0.01 for it. It is that difficult to be an independent software developer guy. Sure, I can do that as a hobby but the time commitment without the ability to make a living is a problem.

I am sure some of you feel the strain and difficulty of committing the time and not be able to make a living on your own. Software industry has been largely Corporatetized.

I have to keep in mind that as I still have to pay bills like everyobe else.

Do you think any serious legitimate business is going to invest money in R&D for anything with no ROI?

Vesalia can basically sell stuff on a consignment basis which they receive profits but they didn't have to put huge input cost to take drastic risks.

Unless I can make a load of money without working, I don't think I can afford to be living a hobby.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 02:53:52 AM
Largely, I left computer software development and to extent hardware development, because the time investment would require fulltime as in 40 hours a week to get things done in a timely fashion. I can't afford to do that unless I make sufficient income that I at least break even on all cost factors including R&D.

Otherwise, use your mad hacking skills and win me that PCH $5000/week for life and I would be more than happy to put investment in projects and do such for a living.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 29, 2012, 03:18:42 AM
I don't expect hobby businesses to attract big money lenders, lol.  See, that's the point.  Your lecture on how we're all pissing time and money down the drain, and how guys like MikeJ, Jens, and etc. are not "legitimate businessmen" is hot air.  You just don't get it, it's not about cash, so please quit talking down to us in the vein of "financial viability".

Maybe all of these Amiga hobby business dudes work day jobs still - matters little to me.  When my FPGA arcade board arrives, I'll thank Mike and crew for all the ass busting they did on it.  I'll pay the price, which by outside standards I likely could buy a good commodity PC for that price.  And I'll be happy with it.  It will take me back to when I was 16, I'll enjoy it for what it is.  I'll be BLOODY happy I was able to support a crew of people that are likely only breaking even on what they are selling.  A labor of love, guys getting their hands dirty and burned up by soldering irons.  The grunts.  The guys doing things for fun rather than money.

In a world of everything being a commodity, getting true enjoyment out of a hobby is one of the only honest pursuits one can have.  It's a get away.  A throw back to the past.  Fun.

I've got a lot of hobbies.  The least of which is the Amiga.  I also make repro and custom parts for vintage motorscooters and tattoo machines, in addition to a day job.  I like doing it, and mostly only benefits my immediate friends.  It's fun.  I know I will not get rich at it, and I am lucky if I break even when all is said and done.  I will keep doing this, and not for the green.  It has virtually no impact on my RL income, it's something I'd be doing anyways for my own enjoyment.  A hobby, no financial aspects.  Hobby.

All the "financial viability" talks on how people catering to the legacy/niche real Amiga market are wasting their time is nonsense, because it's not about that.  The Amiga, the original breed - has been dead for almost 20 years, yet people still keep buying accelerators, network cards, USB and IDE interfaces - all forms of new hardware that comes out.  New software for these "dead and buried platforms" comes out on a weekly basis, and no one has the slightest delusion the Amiga will rise from the dead and crush the commodity PC market.  Hobby.  A good word to remember.

Personally, I'm just thankful there's so many options in this community.  There's so much room for people to fiddle around with their preferred version of what they view as "an Amiga".  Plenty of aftermarket hardware for legacy systems.  A handful of FPGA solutions.  OS4 and PPC boards.  MOS and cheap Mac's.  AROS and x86 hardware.  Various emulators like AF, AmiKit, Amithlon, UAE.  Take your pick - no one retailing or otherwise promoting any of the above items will be the next Jobs or Gates, and I am sure they are just fine with that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: CritAnime on April 29, 2012, 03:25:31 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690994
You are misunderstanding the point. It may play in how someone talks and writes. Depending on generation and religious views might play into whether you would call someone an a--hole or refrain from those word usage. Most people in Jack's generation certainly used less vulgarity and name calling. Depending on what Jewish 'denomination' (sorry, I don't know the proper term for hebrew/jewish equivalent to christian denominations), that may play into how tight to certain social conduct standards one would hold themselves to.
 
It wasn't that important except the main point to be drawn is that may influence Jack in a different manner to Barry. This isn't to say anyone is good or bad person but simply about social customs.

No I understood your point perfectly. I just couldn't beleive you actually were using religious views and generational differences to justify Barry been the way he has been with people. he is trying to portray himself as the professional buisnessman yet his attitude says otherwise.
 
To be frank I think this thread is to the point of derailment, maybe even beyond that. I feel it's time we maybe locked this thread and leave it at that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 04:17:33 AM
Quote from: Duce;691007
I don't expect hobby businesses to attract big money lenders, lol.  See, that's the point.  Your lecture on how we're all pissing time and money down the drain, and how guys like MikeJ, Jens, and etc. are not "legitimate businessmen" is hot air.  You just don't get it, it's not about cash, so please quit talking down to us in the vein of "financial viability".

Maybe all of these Amiga hobby business dudes work day jobs still - matters little to me.  When my FPGA arcade board arrives, I'll thank Mike and crew for all the ass busting they did on it.  I'll pay the price, which by outside standards I likely could buy a good commodity PC for that price.  And I'll be happy with it.  It will take me back to when I was 16, I'll enjoy it for what it is.  I'll be BLOODY happy I was able to support a crew of people that are likely only breaking even on what they are selling.  A labor of love, guys getting their hands dirty and burned up by soldering irons.  The grunts.  The guys doing things for fun rather than money.

In a world of everything being a commodity, getting true enjoyment out of a hobby is one of the only honest pursuits one can have.  It's a get away.  A throw back to the past.  Fun.

I've got a lot of hobbies.  The least of which is the Amiga.  I also make repro and custom parts for vintage motorscooters and tattoo machines, in addition to a day job.  I like doing it, and mostly only benefits my immediate friends.  It's fun.  I know I will not get rich at it, and I am lucky if I break even when all is said and done.  I will keep doing this, and not for the green.  It has virtually no impact on my RL income, it's something I'd be doing anyways for my own enjoyment.  A hobby, no financial aspects.  Hobby.

All the "financial viability" talks on how people catering to the legacy/niche real Amiga market are wasting their time is nonsense, because it's not about that.  The Amiga, the original breed - has been dead for almost 20 years, yet people still keep buying accelerators, network cards, USB and IDE interfaces - all forms of new hardware that comes out.  New software for these "dead and buried platforms" comes out on a weekly basis, and no one has the slightest delusion the Amiga will rise from the dead and crush the commodity PC market.  Hobby.  A good word to remember.

Personally, I'm just thankful there's so many options in this community.  There's so much room for people to fiddle around with their preferred version of what they view as "an Amiga".  Plenty of aftermarket hardware for legacy systems.  A handful of FPGA solutions.  OS4 and PPC boards.  MOS and cheap Mac's.  AROS and x86 hardware.  Various emulators like AF, AmiKit, Amithlon, UAE.  Take your pick - no one retailing or otherwise promoting any of the above items will be the next Jobs or Gates, and I am sure they are just fine with that.


First off CommodoreUSA is a registered business:

Detail by Entity Name
Florida Limited Liability Company
COMMODORE USA, LLC
Filing Information
Document Number   L10000033511
FEI/EIN Number   272216308
Date Filed   03/26/2010
State   FL
Status   ACTIVE
Effective Date   03/25/2010
Principal Address
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Mailing Address
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Registered Agent Name & Address
ALTMAN, BARRY S
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Manager/Member Detail
Name & Address
Title MGRM
ALTMAN, BARRY S
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Annual Reports
Report Year   Filed Date
2011   02/16/2011
Document Images
02/16/2011 -- ANNUAL REPORT   

03/26/2010 -- Florida Limited Liability   

Note:*This is not official record. See documents if question or conflict.

Copied from Florida Business license entity search.

Barry, Leo, etc. From what I recall, are full time. This means that Barry is doing this as a full time operation. This isn't working on this just as a part time or weekend matter. They can't afford to do Commodore and Amiga classic for full-time. Granted, you and I and those other guys an do this as a hobby as long as we have an income somewhere to cover our expenses in life.

As it is, I have college, running a building design business as a service based sole-proprietorship, I can't spend much time to hobbies. There just isn't enough hours left in a day. Business is running slow right now. That is compounded be current economy.

Jens, MikeJ, etc. I know those guys and they do a great job for this as a hobby. I just wouldn't say they are doing this as a business but more as a quasi-business. They aren't doing this as their means of living. They don't do this to pay the bills. That is the kind of difference between a hobby and a business.

The last actual full-time hw developer business that was in the Commodore scene was CMD, Inc. if I recall.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 04:21:24 AM
Anyone that would be buying the copyrights and trademarks aren't looking at doing this for just a hobby. That is what I was having issues with people demanding CommodoreUSA to operate as a hobby.

That is my complaint. You don't spend the order of tens of thousands of dollars on IP for.

If we understand that then I should not see people demanding such requirements that are insufficient for full time business ventures.

I personally don't have any issue with someone spending their time doing something as a hobby. You just can't run a fulltime business to support a hobby unless there is sufficent customers for the products to sell and yield net profit to keep the business running and cover living expenses and have room for personal purchases.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 29, 2012, 04:37:10 AM
I am fully aware as to the business (LLC) status of Commodore USA.  Having run businesses of my own, I'm well aware of the perks (and drawbacks) of an LLC.  If I gave the impression I was thumbing my nose at LLC status, or otherwise implying C-USA is "not a business", that was not intended.  I don't believe I implied otherwise.  They have every right to conduct business as they wish, and unlike many here - I have zero interests or stake in some ideal that they are "defiling the Amiga name".

No one, including me - expects them to see the community as a charity case.

That being said, don't ask the community to see them as anything other that a commodity PC vendor selling Linux boxes.  Barry's own interview confirmed as much.

I wish C-USA no ill will.  I do not dislike Barry, Leo, Dammy, etc. - or anyone else in the extended community.  I assure you if I was waiting with baited breath hoping they fail, I'd let you know.

In fact I hope they make a rock solid PC that people buy and enjoy for many years to come.  That being said, it is becoming tiring on A.org and other well established Amiga forums portals how a commodity PC vendor is going to "save us all", when they themselves have so much as stated they are selling commodity boxes under a nostalgic name.

Just as I would be if Dell showed up here spamming adverts and press for their Intel machines.  Best of luck, but how it pertains to any of us is beyond me.  People would like to see some actual Amiga content on A.org rather than bickering about a PC vendor.

No one is "demanding" a single thing from C-USA.  In fact, their challenge to the community was largely ignored and laughed off due to the terms of it.  They brought that to us.  No one was willing to pony up a single dime to a commodity PC vendor that for 2 years has done nothing but be extremely abusive towards them, and you can't blame them in the least for that.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 05:29:30 AM
Quote from: Duce;691013
I am fully aware as to the business (LLC) status of Commodore USA.  Having run businesses of my own, I'm well aware of the perks (and drawbacks) of an LLC.  If I gave the impression I was thumbing my nose at LLC status, or otherwise implying C-USA is "not a business", that was not intended.  I don't believe I implied otherwise.  They have every right to conduct business as they wish, and unlike many here - I have zero interests or stake in some ideal that they are "defiling the Amiga name".

No one, including me - expects them to see the community as a charity case.

That being said, don't ask the community to see them as anything other that a commodity PC vendor selling Linux boxes.  Barry's own interview confirmed as much.

I wish C-USA no ill will.  I do not dislike Barry, Leo, Dammy, etc. - or anyone else in the extended community.  I assure you if I was waiting with baited breath hoping they fail, I'd let you know.

In fact I hope they make a rock solid PC that people buy and enjoy for many years to come.  That being said, it is becoming tiring on A.org and other well established Amiga forums portals how a commodity PC vendor is going to "save us all", when they themselves have so much as stated they are selling commodity boxes under a nostalgic name.

Just as I would be if Dell showed up here spamming adverts and press for their Intel machines.  Best of luck, but how it pertains to any of us is beyond me.  People would like to see some actual Amiga content on A.org rather than bickering about a PC vendor.

No one is "demanding" a single thing from C-USA.  In fact, their challenge to the community was largely ignored and laughed off due to the terms of it.  They brought that to us.  No one was willing to pony up a single dime to a commodity PC vendor that for 2 years has done nothing but be extremely abusive towards them, and you can't blame them in the least for that.


Ok, I can agree with a bit of that overall. I agree that bickering is no good for anyone. Thank you for your patience as we overall get some degree of understanding across. I just hope the overall community isn't demanding then to fulfill some age old broken promise of Escom or Gateway. I am confident that if there is budgetary room for more direct support of Commodore and Amiga classics, the would support it if enough people are willing to purchase.

There needs to be enough to support small volumes of products like 500-1000 units of a product. It needs to meet minimum orders conditions or you get too many to meet minimum order volumes but not enough purchases and you can see that is lots of money down the toilet. Jens been down that road and it kind of hurt him financially a little bit for a bit and added frustration with just 300 units of C-One produced. The demand isn't entirely unreasonable with maybe an issue of escrow account. Not sure about that.

If you want a $2000 computer then ok.... 500x$2000 would equal $1,000,000.

If you want a $500 hw spec then you got $250,000 to raise. Maybe I read it wrong but ok.

If they are going to use a custom designed platform then they need to get revenues for that. It is probably easier to develop a state of the art desktop environment following UI mechanics from the now expired patents in a modern 3d twist on next generation.

Hardware like new semiconductor ISA and development of such would be incredably challenging for anyone. They would have to get the old MOS plant and if there is remotely any of the foundry equipment there.. They would need to get that equipment updated at minimum to add additional stepper lenses to reduce the UV beam from 3 microns to um... 30 nm and pray to god it works and upgraded microscope to see that small accurately. We would need someone to make the photolithographs. None of this I would expect to work successfully for too many reasons. It would be easier to go fabless and that facility could be suitable for that and meet EPA. Maybe we be lucky to find anything there.

That is why I would be critical of expecting any new Amiga PPC hw that is competitive.

If they were to invest in such R&D, it would be something new not being overly concerned with technologies that the patents expired 3-6 years ago.

For someone to make new patentable hw, it is going to cost some $$$.

I don't think they are ready for that in-house.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 05:36:13 AM
I apologize to everyone for any and all abusive and offensive statements such as unintended racial or religious statements (that may have been interpreted as rascist as that was not intended in the comparison) - that I have stated on this forum.

I am sure that when we get into a heated debate this tends to happen with all of us.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 29, 2012, 07:06:29 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690942
Grow up you sweaty, buttcrack showing, eating cold pizza and drinking jolt with your 1980s punk hair do while growing a beard techno-washouts.
Actually, my hair is strictly 1970, I only have stubble, I sweat very little, I wear pants that stay well above my waistline, and I don't drink Jolt. You know, not that that's in any way relevant to anything in this thread, but just for the record.

Quote
I know you are tired of companies using the brand. If you want it... Buy it and do as you wish. Until then, play with your toys and be content.
Uh, no. Just because I don't have the wherewithal to purchase the brand names from Uncle Bill (if he were even selling) does not mean I'm obligated to smile and nod mute approval at any yahoo who rents them.

Quote from: Wildstar128;690955
I want to see a viable and sustainable business plan for running a full operating business supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics. I have not seen anything that allows for paid employees or even paying the owner a salary of any kind in a long time.
Again, how do you even know that CUSA lives up to these criteria? We haven't seen squat for a business plan from Barry.

Quote from: Wildstar128;690984
Barry is from a later generation and I believe Barry is not Jewish so that may play into how Jack is compared to Barry.
Uh, what? Barry is not Jewish, so it's...acceptable for him to question someone's sex life?

Quote
Barry, be careful of gaffes. There are some childish jerks in the world that would do anything to make a public scene to embarass a person in public.
Oh, there sure are! For instance, some meanie might even go so far as to quote things he's actually said on public forums!
Quote from: Barry Altman, CEO, CommodoreUSA LLC
Let's clarify. I'm not asking how often you have sex, or if you have trouble performing. We know that already because we looked.
That would be terrible if someone were to do that!

Quote from: Wildstar128;690994
It wasn't that important except the main point to be drawn is that may influence Jack in a different manner to Barry. This isn't to say anyone is good or bad person but simply about social customs.
I don't know in what society it's customary to question someone's virility and imply you peep on their sex life in response to a question about pricing, but I sure don't want to go there.

Quote from: Wildstar128;691020
I am sure that when we get into a heated debate this tends to happen with all of us.
Oh, yeah. I can't tell you how many times I've brought the Jews into debates where I've had to defend a guy for acting like a total pervert to a guy who just wanted to know about pricing. Happens all the time.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: runequester on April 29, 2012, 07:24:04 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;691023


Oh, yeah. I can't tell you how many times I've brought the Jews into debates where I've had to defend a guy for acting like a total pervert to a guy who just wanted to know about pricing. Happens all the time.


Wait.. would that be like a reverse Godwin ?
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 08:07:03 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;691023
Actually, my hair is strictly 1970, I only have stubble, I sweat very little, I wear pants that stay well above my waistline, and I don't drink Jolt. You know, not that that's in any way relevant to anything in this thread, but just for the record.


Uh, no. Just because I don't have the wherewithal to purchase the brand names from Uncle Bill (if he were even selling) does not mean I'm obligated to smile and nod mute approval at any yahoo who rents them.


Again, how do you even know that CUSA lives up to these criteria? We haven't seen squat for a business plan from Barry.


Uh, what? Barry is not Jewish, so it's...acceptable for him to question someone's sex life?


Oh, there sure are! For instance, some meanie might even go so far as to quote things he's actually said on public forums!

That would be terrible if someone were to do that!


I don't know in what society it's customary to question someone's virility and imply you peep on their sex life in response to a question about pricing, but I sure don't want to go there.


Oh, yeah. I can't tell you how many times I've brought the Jews into debates where I've had to defend a guy for acting like a total pervert to a guy who just wanted to know about pricing. Happens all the time.


I only was looking at comparing and contrasting Jack and Barry a little and why there is also different personality. Anyway, that comment of Barry seemed odd but then the question in fact might had caused some tongue and cheek sarcasm. Although it is not my style, I wouldn't do that. I looked back at the interview responses and am not quite seeing that. Am I missing something?

Ok, whatever. It was in that other thread I guess. Too many pages ago.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Krischan76 on April 29, 2012, 08:28:49 AM
Clenching claws and jaws in this bunch of obvious nutters (i.e. CUSA & its fellowmen) is just not worth it. It'a an amusing read, but people tend to wear themselves down fighting a futile battle.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 29, 2012, 09:05:39 AM
** Image Removed **
Sad this isn`t Barry for community

Even he isn`t Commodore Barry too ...

(http://www.annapolisaoh.com/Color%20Barry.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: vox on April 29, 2012, 09:16:20 AM
Quote from: Wildstar128;691020
I apologize to everyone for any and all abusive and offensive statements such as unintended racial or religious statements (that may have been interpreted as rascist as that was not intended in the comparison) - that I have stated on this forum.

I am sure that when we get into a heated debate this tends to happen with all of us.


No, it happens only if such mind is part of you. Think twice :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTPa8Y-l9mM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTPa8Y-l9mM)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 09:45:41 AM
Now now Vox,

We need to sell some AMIGAs.

Lol...

(http://mcsixtyfive.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/cankler_c64_babe1-233x300.jpg)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: crawff on April 29, 2012, 09:56:26 AM
@Wildstar128  ^^^

Easily your best post so far...
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: darkage on April 29, 2012, 03:04:43 PM
WoWoW I've never seen that commodore logo sooo BIG before!!! Wow thats certainly put some excitement into my retro computing :)
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: commodorejohn on April 29, 2012, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;691026
Anyway, that comment of Barry seemed odd but then the question in fact might had caused some tongue and cheek sarcasm.
Uh, see, there's a thing where that was totally beyond the pale and "tongue-in-cheek sarcasm" just doesn't cut it. That's like the exact opposite of professional behavior.

In any case, Barry never so much as apologized for it.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 29, 2012, 05:00:48 PM
Quote from: Wildstar128;690988
talk to Leo or Barry in a civil manner. Just ask what you want to know. Don't waste time on meaningless garbage and the other piss and vinegar. After all, it stinks up the place.


See, there you go assuming we haven't already tried that.

After a bunch of threatening PMs from Barry which finally stopped when I invited him to my home on the understanding that I would take him up on his offer by taking him out to a deserted property of mine in the country, he asked to bury the hatched and asked for my opinions.  We had a couple of polite PMs, he even PMed me and asked me to announce the birth of Leo's baby (which I did) and then he carried on as normal and promptly lost it again when I made a critical post.  He then posted extracts from our private PMs and used Dammy in the attack as well to make me out to be a hypocrite and a liar.  Dammy did his best to make me out for being two-faced because I had actually dared to try and find some common ground.  From that we can deduce that Barry is simply the type of guy who wll use the birth of a baby to attempt to manipulate people and that he feels that anybody who tried to offer an olive branch is contemptable.

He had his second chance from me.  I gave him my honest opion on how he could fix his lousey PR.  He threw it all back at me and continued his smoke and mirrors game populated with a neverending stream of lies.

End of story.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Darrin on April 29, 2012, 05:02:21 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;691063
In any case, Barry never so much as apologized for it.


Type A personality disorders prevents that.  In their minds they can do no wrong.  The firmly believe it is we who should apologize to them for daring to disagree.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Duce on April 29, 2012, 06:50:34 PM
Wow, wasn't aware that you went thru all that BS, Darrin.

Guess I should count myself lucky that I only had a few of their fanboys harassing me.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: Wildstar128 on April 29, 2012, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: Darrin;691065
See, there you go assuming we haven't already tried that.

After a bunch of threatening PMs from Barry which finally stopped when I invited him to my home on the understanding that I would take him up on his offer by taking him out to a deserted property of mine in the country, he asked to bury the hatched and asked for my opinions.  We had a couple of polite PMs, he even PMed me and asked me to announce the birth of Leo's baby (which I did) and then he carried on as normal and promptly lost it again when I made a critical post.  He then posted extracts from our private PMs and used Dammy in the attack as well to make me out to be a hypocrite and a liar.  Dammy did his best to make me out for being two-faced because I had actually dared to try and find some common ground.  From that we can deduce that Barry is simply the type of guy who wll use the birth of a baby to attempt to manipulate people and that he feels that anybody who tried to offer an olive branch is contemptable.

He had his second chance from me.  I gave him my honest opion on how he could fix his lousey PR.  He threw it all back at me and continued his smoke and mirrors game populated with a neverending stream of lies.

End of story.


It is one thing to be critical and another to give a bunch of insults. In fact, one should never mix insult into a critique. A critique is to be constructive criticism not destructive.

I am not condoning or saying it is right for Barry to be unprofessional in the matters but some reason I get the feeling that you weren't conducting yourself professionally either and in my experience when someone is critical, it gets in a gang fashion throwing insults as a gang up party. You should realize that and request the rest of the fellow folks to just stay out of it and keep it professional. It isn't easy to keep calm with 10-20 post of b.s. Insults for every single decent sentence.

Think about the whole situation. You got mob like gang here flooding with insults. I am guessing it is difficult. Not right or proper but the surrounding context has to be kept in mind.

As for Dammy, well.... He's... Barry was pretty clear about Dammy.
Title: Re: CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers
Post by: J-Golden on April 29, 2012, 07:00:05 PM
Well, it seems we have run the course for this thread and it even appears we have come to an "Agree to Disagree" stance with a modicrim of understanding along with some apologies.

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread.  If you are confused as to why now or why not earlier, PM me and we can talk.

As silly as this may sound from a grown man, I hope everyone who was involved in this thread can now walk away more as friends then enemies.

CHEERS TO ALL AMIGANS! :pint: