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Offline klesterjr

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2005, 02:26:15 PM »
Quote
Your VisualPrefs theme (or is it Ken's?)


No -- my OS4 VisualPrefs theme IS "perfect" -- of course, I had an unfair advantage!  Heh, heh. ;-)
 

Offline SnOoPy

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2005, 01:08:30 AM »
i meet the requirements got all the needed kit and been playing with winuae for 7 years

[os] Windows XP Professional 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 [cpu] 1 AMD @ 1991.20 MHz AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3400+ x86 Family [memory]1024mb [display] NVIDIA GeForce FX 6800 card(s),[hdd] [C: 20,002.77mb (5,582.62mb free)] [D: 194,474.32mb (24,578.77mb free)] [E: 85,533.54mb (57,369.05mb free)] [F: 88,937.94mb (78,943.34mb free)]
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2005, 01:39:13 AM »
BOOOOOOO!

Down with Amiga emulation!

;-)
 

Offline AmiKitTopic starter

Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2005, 09:34:47 AM »
@Hyperspeed

Maybe you should explain your opinion a little bit more :lol:
Anyway, AmiKit is going to be useful even for "real" Amigas...

Offline Animagic

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2005, 11:26:44 AM »
AthlonXP 2800+, Asus Mobo, 1GB DDR RAM, 600GB (TOTAL) HD, Matrox Parhelia 256, Matrox RT 2500, Nec DVD+-RW, LG DVDrom, JBL PRO studio audio monitors, 19" CRT monitor.

line: ADSL 384.

Amiga OS from 1.0 to 3.9 (original)

Plenty of time in August  :-D
Greek Amiga User Group Amiga Hellas
You can find me on #amigahellas IRC channel on GRnet.
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2005, 12:34:25 AM »
It must suck emulating a machine that so many coders hit the metal with. However I can see the advantages of having portable versions of RTG software and demonstration software like Scala and Hollywood.

So can anyone list all the Amiga emulators out there now? There's about half a dozen right!?

:-)

Is AGA supported and '040/'060/PPC etc.? How are 880K disks handled by the PC, what about PCMCIA devices and laptops, SCSI addressing and how does a TCP/IP stack talk through emulation?
 

Offline N7VQM

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2005, 05:53:37 AM »
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Hyperspeed wrote:
Is AGA supported

Yup.

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 '040/'060/PPC etc.?

Up to 060.  No PPC except for PearPC, AFAIK.  But, that's not an Amiga emulator.
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How are 880K disks handled by the PC

They're not.  A shame, I know.  I just make ADFs and send them over the network.  SAMBA is good.
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 what about PCMCIA devices and laptops

WinUAE runs fine, albeit slow, on my laptop and has no issue with my PCMCIA wireless card.
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SCSI addressing

WinUAE has something called uaescsi.device that works well for me.  I have yet to see any hiccoughs.  AOS3.5 even installed without a hitch on my 0.9.something WinUAE.
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how does TCP/IP stack talk through emulation?

WinUAE provides a BSDSocket.library emulation that works with Windows' built-in networking.  No seperate TCP/IP stack needed.  Very fast when compared to my A3k running MiamiDX.
\\"...an error of 1 is much less significant in counting the population of the Earth than in counting the occupants of a phone booth.\\" - Michael T. Heath, Scientific Computing...
 

Offline _ThEcRoW

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2005, 01:53:24 PM »
Direct access to 880k disks will be added on the new version using a catweasel. At the moment you can read and write amiga disks with the win driver on winuae.
Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1
Amiga 500 + ACA500Plus + 16gb CF | ECS Power!!!
C64 DTV + Keyboard mod. Waiting for a 1541 disk ve...
Mac Mini G4 1.42Ghz 1gb OSX(tiger)/Morphos 3.7 Registered
C64mini + usb drive with loads of games...
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2005, 12:50:24 AM »
I really begrudge the promotion of UAE and suchlike on Amiga.org...

If the sole reason is to run Amiga software on a laptop then why doesn't someone make a bloody Amiga laptop!

I think it's fine to emulate a C=64 or say Megadrive/Genesis but a machine that brand new commercial software is still being released for? The promotion of classic Amiga emulation on the x86 format is killing the unique selling point that the AmigaOne has of emulating all old Amiga software.

Recently Sony has succesfully stopped UK importers from using so called `mod chips' to bypass copy protection and so the sale of them has now become illegal here. Given a good lawyer, Amiga Inc. could effectively argue that by emulating a classic Amiga a coder is basically removing the requirement to buy their unique new hardware thus undermining their business. Not only that but the competition from more refined PC-based web software competing with the like of the recent IBrowse 2.3/2.4 could effectively strangle all hopes of a minor comeback.

In a world where retro is coming back into fashion, where joysticks are being made with old Megadrive/Genesis and C=64 games, I think it's essential that sites like Amiga.org and their users keep the faith and promote classic hardware sales, AmigaOne/Pegasos sales and give impetus to the ressurection of a dormant platform that could hail the future for community dreams and business.



;-)
 

Offline InTheSand

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2005, 01:21:53 AM »
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Hyperspeed wrote:
I really begrudge the promotion of UAE and suchlike on Amiga.org...

If the sole reason is to run Amiga software on a laptop then why doesn't someone make a bloody Amiga laptop!


Er... because it would cost 3x more than an equivalent PC laptop and nobody would buy it... Do you think A.Org would have anywhere near as many active users if it wasn't for the likes of UAE?

Personally, I'm all for anything that keeps the Amiga "community" going, be that on real hardware or via emulation.

Is the AmigaOne really an Amiga in the true sense? It's essentially just an overpriced (IMHO before anyone bites!) PPC board running a hobbyist OS. I'd quite like one as a play/hobby machine but just can't justify the $$$. I appreciate the fact that small low-user runs of hardware always cost more - it's a shame the A1 wasn't based on standard x86 hardware, perhaps with a plug-in card of some sort to contain the code that allows OS4 to run...

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I think it's fine to emulate a C=64 or say Megadrive/Genesis but a machine that brand new commercial software is still being released for? The promotion of classic Amiga emulation on the x86 format is killing the unique selling point that the AmigaOne has of emulating all old Amiga software.


Running of classic Amiga software isn't the AmigaOne's USP - this has been available (in varying forms of success and speed) on x86 Linux and Windows for around a decade...

And... what, realistically, is being released commercially for the classic Amiga platform these days? At least with UAE, there's a larger user base for this software, should its users choose to buy it, rather than relying on a community using 10-20 year old machines with failing hardware.

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Recently Sony has succesfully stopped UK importers from using so called `mod chips' to bypass copy protection and so the sale of them has now become illegal here.


That's perfectly fair enough and not really the issue with UAE as most classic Amiga software is 10+ years old and not available to buy.

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Given a good lawyer, Amiga Inc. could effectively argue that by emulating a classic Amiga a coder is basically removing the requirement to buy their unique new hardware thus undermining their business.


I disagree - emulation of the classic Amiga doesn't make the A1 unique. What makes it unique is that it provides an alternative hobbyist platform. Classic Amiga emulators predate the A1.

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Not only that but the competition from more refined PC-based web software competing with the like of the recent IBrowse 2.3/2.4 could effectively strangle all hopes of a minor comeback.


The reason for the lack of decent Amiga web browsing software is simply due to the size of the user base. Why would the likes of the Mozilla organisation commit the necessary resource to produce an OS4 version of Mozilla or Firefox (or even a classic Amiga version) when the percentage of users when compared to Linux x86 and Windows is miniscule?

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In a world where retro is coming back into fashion, where joysticks are being made with old Megadrive/Genesis and C=64 games, I think it's essential that sites like Amiga.org and their users keep the faith and promote classic hardware sales, AmigaOne/Pegasos sales and give impotus to the ressurection of a dormant platform that could hail the future for community dreams and business.


I couldn't agree more. I still buy the odd bit of hardware for my classic Amigas and I hope people with the money to spare will buy AmigaOnes and Pegasos/MorphOS. But I also hope that UAE is developed further and that more people who used the Amiga in the 80s and 90s continue to discover it and join Amiga.Org to discuss it.

Just my 2c worth!

 - Ali
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2005, 02:47:33 AM »
Well, all the points you make are good ones and valid, however I doubt very much that by emulating the Amiga any PC user is going to rush out and buy IBrowse2.4 or the latest FryingPan, TurboPrint or Pagestream.

Do you think an Amiga owner with a UAE laptop is going to rush out and buy the excellent Hollywood multimedia package if there's already a dusty old copy of Powerpoint already bundled with the Windows install?

UAE is doing nobody any favours in my opinion and the frequent reports of things going wrong, apps/games/demos not working properly doesn't do the legacy any good either.

Admittedly running Workbench, DOpus and my favourite utilities on a laptop is a wonderful, tempting idea...  but because things are so shaky in terms of new AmigaOS revisions and new AmigaOne machines the emulation scene could well be the death sentance.

"Need is 9/10ths of Invention" or whatever they say... so do we NEED a new Amiga, new apps if the whole WinXP catalogue is just a window behind Workbench? You eliminate all the cool, native video capability, all the super-optimised hardware banging demos, all the gadgets and gizmos that made the Amigas so cool and you're left with a zombified skeleton running RTG apps on a 3GHz 68020!

What about PowerPC software anyway...

:-D
 

Offline InTheSand

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2005, 04:27:31 AM »
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:
Do you think an Amiga owner with a UAE laptop is going to rush out and buy the excellent Hollywood multimedia package if there's already a dusty old copy of Powerpoint already bundled with the Windows install?


Realistically, no... I think most people, when faced with a choice of creating documents or presentations using native Windows/Linux tools vs classic Amiga tools under emulation are going to pick the former. Especially when the likes of OpenOffice are free, feature-rich and compatible with Microsoft's so-called "standards".

And no, I don't think many UAE users would be registering classic Amiga software either... but they *could*...

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UAE is doing nobody any favours in my opinion and the frequent reports of things going wrong, apps/games/demos not working properly doesn't do the legacy any good either.


I've not personally experienced things going wrong with UAE, especially with recent revisions of WinUAE, but then again I mainly use it for playing classic games or for experimenting with things before trying them out "for real" on my actual hardware. I have a duplicate copy of my A1200's hard drive contents running fine under UAE, including demos, games, applications (OctaMED, Final Writer, etc).

The AmigaOne won't run classic Amiga software natively - it too has to work through emulation unless running native OS4 apps. UAE's compatibility is very good - and gives more scope than "real" hardware (e.g. UAE will emulate from an A500 with 68000, OCS and KS1.x right up to an A4000-class machine with graphics card, and no "real" piece of classic Amiga hardware will achieve that range of compatibility, despite the use of degrader software and the like).

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Admittedly running Workbench, DOpus and my favourite utilities on a laptop is a wonderful, tempting idea...


So... give it a go! You'll be pleasantly surprised by the speed at which a modern PC can emulate a classic Amiga...

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but because things are so shaky in terms of new AmigaOS revisions and new AmigaOne machines the emulation scene could well be the death sentance.


But the classic Amigas had their death sentence many many years ago. OS3.x is extremely unlikely to see further revisions, and that classic hardware isn't getting any newer.

The AmigaOne machines will benefit from continued UAE development by allowing non-system-friendly software to be run. The combined might of all of the UAE developers will produce a much more compatible classic hardware emulation than if it was left to the developers of OS4 alone.

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"Need is 9/10ths of Invention" or whatever they say... so do we NEED a new Amiga, new apps if the whole WinXP catalogue is just a window behind Workbench?


Well... the need for continued investment in new hardware and software is debatable... An A500 with basic dot matrix printer and word processing package will still let you produce letters, etc, but most people would prefer to be doing it on a more modern machine with better printer and software.

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You eliminate all the cool, native video capability, all the super-optimised hardware banging demos, all the gadgets and gizmos that made the Amigas so cool and you're left with a zombified skeleton running RTG apps on a 3GHz 68020!


I agree - the classic Amigas were great for the hardware-banging demos. But these won't be running on an AmigaOne unless it's via emulation, and that'll be UAE...

Any piece of modern hardware lacks what made (and still makes!) the classic Amigas cool. From the click of the floppy drive to the classic WB1.x "hand", running on real hardware is definitely the best way to get the nostalgia going, but how long will all this old hardware last?

UAE will run the majority of demos and other software that bashes on the hardware - it's able to do very much more than just running RTG applications quickly and emulates the whole custom chipset, be that OCS, ECS or AGA, and a variety of CPUs and RAM configurations.

 - Ali
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2005, 05:00:13 AM »
But what if AmigaOS 4 finally makes it to PowerPC equipped classic Amigas? And AmigaOne is using classic emulation built into OS4 isn't it?

I'm sure there was also a rival OFFICIAL emulator package from Amiga Inc themselves. Making things freeware, as with MP3, really didn't do the music industry much good. I have said in the past though that UAE would be the saviour if only Amiga Inc started an iTunes style download shop for classic games. Do they listen? NO!

;-)

I must say I'm mildly curious about PSP UAE - the Amiga emulator for the Playstation handheld.

:-D

Just how you'd operate Workbench with a D-pad and 4 fire buttons I don't know, let alone writing a letter on Wordworth!

So does WinUAE run Spaceballs `State of the Art' and things like CD32 Super Stardust? If UAE is still being developed for Linux to the same standards as WinUAE then I might give it a shot, it'd be keeping some of the free spirit going...
 

Offline InTheSand

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2005, 10:24:04 AM »
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:
But what if AmigaOS 4 finally makes it to PowerPC equipped classic Amigas? And AmigaOne is using classic emulation built into OS4 isn't it?


As far as I know, OS4's classic emulation is restricted to the 68K processor and system-friendly application software, e.g. stuff that goes via the OS rather than bashing on the hardware directly.

From a review here, it says:
"Legacy Amiga applications, such as games, that were written to access the old custom chipset hardware directly, will not run in OS4.0. However, a port of WinUAE for OS4, called E-UAE, has been produced that will allow these games to be run as well. So-called "system friendly" legacy Amiga applications, the kind that were able to use PC-based graphics cards, run directly from the OS4 shell. The operating system launches a 68020 emulator seamlessly in the background when the application's icon is double-clicked. In this release of the OS, the emulator is interpretive only, and provides the speed of about a 50MHz 68040 on the 800Mhz AmigaOne hardware."

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I'm sure there was also a rival OFFICIAL emulator package from Amiga Inc themselves. Making things freeware, as with MP3, really didn't do the music industry much good. I have said in the past though that UAE would be the saviour if only Amiga Inc started an iTunes style download shop for classic games. Do they listen? NO!


Well, Amiga Forever is the official Amiga emulator, with fully licensed Kickstart ROMs and Workbench disk images for a variety of versions. And yes, that uses UAE too.

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I must say I'm mildly curious about PSP UAE - the Amiga emulator for the Playstation handheld.


Yes, it would be particularly cool to have a very portable Amiga for some of the classic games. Superfrog would be great!

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So does WinUAE run Spaceballs `State of the Art'


Just downloading now from the Spaceballs web site... It does run "9 Fingers" very well, from the same group. Yep, it runs "State Of The Art" too - running it in a window as I type this! Must admit, I haven't seen that for ages, will write it out to floppy in a minute and see if my A3000 runs it.

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and things like CD32 Super Stardust?


Not sure, I don't own this and haven't been able to try it out...

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If UAE is still being developed for Linux to the same standards as WinUAE then I might give it a shot, it'd be keeping some of the free spirit going...


Unfortunately, most development is done on WinUAE first these days (biggest "market share" of UAE users), but E-UAE attempts to port the WinUAE enhancements back to the UNIX/Linux version.

Definitely worth giving it a go though, especially to watch those classic demos once again that may not run on more modern real Amiga hardware.

 - Ali

Edit: "Spaceballs" doesn't run on my A3000, even with CPU cache disabled. Even though I own quite a few bits of classic hardware, only WinUAE will allow me to watch this unless I go and dig out my real A600!
 

Offline Amigator

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Re: Beta-testers needed
« Reply #28 from previous page: August 29, 2005, 08:42:37 PM »
Hey there,

If you still need some beta testers,
i would be glad to take part.

Greetings