Amiga.org

Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: J-Golden on October 13, 2013, 08:13:16 AM

Title: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: J-Golden on October 13, 2013, 08:13:16 AM
Commodorejohn has been banned for a week.  I did it.  I'll do it again too.

I have had enough crap from people who run roughshod over the TOS, the Mods and the owners.  A.ORG used to be a place where people got together and talked about almost everything with like minded people.  Now it is the, "Troll Place" as a friend called it.

Seriously,if you want to be snide, mean spirited, belligerent, passive aggressive, a jerk, an instigator or anything else that detracts from the forum, go away!  Go to Moonbunny or whatever.

A.ORG will only be as good as it's members.  We still have a lot of good ones, but we used to have tons!  So many members have been driven away by hostile posts and replies.

So no polls on how we can make the site better or change the moderation.  No more, "Let me explain my feelings on how I mod" discousions.  We all agreed to the TOS when we first signed up and since we are also grownups, we should also have the wherewithal to treat each other with respect.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 13, 2013, 08:31:39 AM
That's awesome!  :razz:
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Bamiga2002 on October 13, 2013, 09:22:02 AM
Cool! Please ban more people, thank you! :pint:
commodorejohn had such bad opinions and all, useless I'd say. He deservers a perma-ban! Even suggesting that some car-thingy threads don't belong here is bad...BAD!

Yeah, you read between the lines...or not.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Boot_WB on October 13, 2013, 12:11:50 PM
This thread gloating about it does nothing to allay my personal discomfort about the lack of quality (and by this I mean consistency, not high/low quality) wrt moderation on this site.

Singling out a member and publicising the moderator action in this way smacks of making an example out of someone.
Frankly, whilst the 'waste-of'space thread was pointless, it wasn't banning material - let alone justify a moderator flaming a member (who can't even respond dure to that mod's ban) on a public forum.

I have nothing against you personally J-Golden, but this action (the ban) appears hot-headed and capricious, and this thread just seems to be kicking a man when he's down.

@Moderator team

PS - Before I also get banned for discussing/criticising a moderator decision in a public forum, consider the OP and the Topic.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: crawff on October 13, 2013, 12:26:34 PM
I don't understand the point of a 1 week ban, it's not like he will suddenly change his views or behaviour when he returns?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: OlafS3 on October 13, 2013, 12:29:39 PM
Quote from: crawff;749973
I don't understand the point of a 1 week ban, it's not like he will suddenly change his views or behaviour when he returns?


Not only if one week makes sense... the way it was published as "news" is, to say it politely,a little strange. Then when I stand up can I publish it as news too? And when one person attacked in public he should have a chance to defend himself.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Linde on October 13, 2013, 12:32:06 PM
How great of you to ban him, announcing the decision publicly without letting him answer to it. He's one of the few members I feel I can engage with in a debate without having my arguments being totally misrepresented, and while I don't always agree with him, his elaborate perspective is valuable in threads that would only otherwise only end up being a lot of back-patting or polarized flamewars.

What exactly did you ban him for?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: OlafS3 on October 13, 2013, 12:38:47 PM
Quote from: Linde;749975
How great of you to ban him, announcing the decision publicly without letting him answer to it. He's one of the few members I feel I can engage with in a debate without having my arguments being totally misrepresented, and while I don't always agree with him, his elaborate perspective is valuable in threads that would only otherwise only end up being a lot of back-patting or polarized flamewars.

What exactly did you ban him for?


"So no polls on how we can make the site better or change the moderation. No more, "Let me explain my feelings on how I mod" discousions."

It seems he had critisized the moderation and/or certain moderators...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: foleyjo on October 13, 2013, 12:43:09 PM
There was a time when I came to Amiga.org everyday and would try to join in conversations. Now I can't be that bothered. This thread to me says everything about why
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: mrmoonlight on October 13, 2013, 01:14:15 PM
I Like it on this Forum and I do think there is still loads of folk who contribute so much and there is interesting reads and discussions to be had ,I know what bad is I was once on a electric bike forum where a group of members would constantly insult you and if that did not work ,would insult your Family I finally left in dismay when the wonderful  disabled athletes  came under verbal attack  ,oh how I love it on here ,still there has to be rules and proud to be a part of Amiga org,best wishes Brian.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Iggy on October 13, 2013, 01:18:48 PM
As a child of the '60s and '70s, I have always appreciated a  little dissent and disregard for authority.

Having been banned before, I would not be surprised were I to be banned again in the future.

You folks all act like this is some kid's club and you can just revoke someone's access to to tree house.

It is childish on all sides and I am disappointed in CommodoreJohn and J-Golden.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: nicholas on October 13, 2013, 01:19:31 PM
What has John done that deserved a ban?

It surely must have been something really bad because other members have been allowed to get away with extremely offensive posts recently.

While I haven't always seen eye to eye with John I've never seen him post anything offensive.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: koaftder on October 13, 2013, 01:31:28 PM
Meh, this is what happens when you take a dump in a subforum you don't care for.

As for this thread, I don't see it really helping...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Retrofan on October 13, 2013, 01:44:20 PM
"Yup, I just banned him..."

Very ugly to open a thread just to show your power to bann us all :rtfm:, and where he can't open his mouth. I agree with the most of the people here :(.

If you had to make it, just do it and put an edit on his last post or something, do not open a thread, and less the kind of this.

"You folks all act like this is some kid's club and you can just revoke someone's access to to tree house." . I totally agree.

If I were a global moderator I would close this thread.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: salax54 on October 13, 2013, 01:55:22 PM
What Retrofan said. You must really be very proud of your moderation skills, eh? So much as to shout it out too...
If that's the case, can i please have a ban myself too? I'll really enjoy it!
I'm with CommodoreJohn on this.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: dammy on October 13, 2013, 02:11:54 PM
Quote from: koaftder;749982
Meh, this is what happens when you take a dump in a subforum you don't care for.

As for this thread, I don't see it really helping...


+1
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SysAdmin on October 13, 2013, 02:59:59 PM
Moved to Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: odin on October 13, 2013, 03:10:41 PM
Right, so there will be a site announcement on the front page every time someone is temp banned? Will there be animgif banners or tags on the front page when someone is permabanned?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SysAdmin on October 13, 2013, 03:22:02 PM
Quote from: odin;749999
Right, so there will be a site announcement on the front page every time someone is temp banned? Will there be animgif banners or tags on the front page when someone is permabanned?


No there will not be site announcements for this.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: EDanaII on October 13, 2013, 03:24:10 PM
OK, so... banned for violating the TOS because he protested the creation of a Forum that has nothing to do with Amigas and was created long after he agreed to anything?

Something's outta whack here...

Ya know, I maintain a forum about WWII and B-17s. I should open a sub-forum about Amigas because, like the B-17, the Amiga was built by smart engineering. Yea, my subscribers would appreciate that...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: cgutjahr on October 13, 2013, 03:30:03 PM
Quote from: koaftder;749982
Meh, this is what happens when you take a dump in a subforum you don't care for.

Not sure I would refer to his thread (it's still there (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66078), btw.) as "taking a dump". The "electric cars" section is a total waste of space and only exists to create some revenue for the site owner. And, more importantly: every time you stumble over it you're reminded that said site owner is trying to cover that up.

Quote

As for this thread, I don't see it really helping...

+1
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Madshib on October 13, 2013, 03:43:25 PM
I haven't been here very long, but I appreciate the moderator for letting us know that an individual was banned. This site appears to have those that can be critical negatively without anything (apparently) positive to say.

I do think this is a place to get trolled and I am glad that someone did something. Not only that, this thread in particular  is not a soapbox, it's a warning to others that also share the same "approach" tho thread and topic response.

Thank you for letting us know, now let's move along with the point taken for what it should be.

Be constructive, be friendly, and be positive. Amigans such as myself, appreciate that much more.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: itix on October 13, 2013, 03:45:23 PM
I think problem is that mods here are passive aggressive (reminds me about Argo):

Quote

And to get to the "New Posts" page you have to what? Huh? I'm sorry, did you just say first log in (this tab is not available to visitors) and specifically click on the link which is nothing more then an automated search for the latest posted topics?

UH-OH! Did the word "search" just HAPPEN to pop out? I'm sorry, I shouldn't use that word because that not only debunks your argument but proves that you are arguing with a Mod!

OH NOs!!! Is a mod actually talking BACK to you?!?! Is he actually going to kick you for a week because you not only started a useless, negative thread but wouldn't back off???

Geez, if only this situation, collectively and individually, was covered by some governing body or written agreement that each and every member needs to sign before joining A.ORG...

If you don't have anything nice or constructive to say, DON'T!


http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=749920&postcount=5
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Terminills on October 13, 2013, 04:05:38 PM
Quote from: koaftder;749982
Meh, this is what happens when you take a dump in a subforum you don't care for.

As for this thread, I don't see it really helping...


My My a certain mod seems to like to announce Banning people.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=706980&postcount=1
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: ZeBeeDee on October 13, 2013, 04:38:24 PM
May as well ban everyone and be done with it
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: takemehomegrandma on October 13, 2013, 04:41:07 PM
Quote from: OlafS3;749974
Not only if one week makes sense... the way it was published as "news" is, to say it politely,a little strange. Then when I stand up can I publish it as news too? And when one person attacked in public he should have a chance to defend himself.


It's ugly. All of it.

A lot of strange things going on here lately. I think this site is in free-fall.

:(
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Trev on October 13, 2013, 04:49:41 PM
@ZeBeeDee

I choose to self-ban. There's a real world out there not governed by terms of service. Thankfully, Starbucks doesn't ask us to leave in response to nonsequiturs.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: vox on October 13, 2013, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: Terminills;750009
My My a certain mod seems to like to announce Banning people.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=706980&postcount=1

I am a live evidence that if user can change behav, he can turn out the
perma-ban.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: J-Golden on October 13, 2013, 05:01:20 PM
The reason Commodrejohn was banned for a week was because he broke the TOS after he was given a warning.

I announced it for several reasons.  First was that I usually make it known when I do this because I feel everyone deserves to know when such an action is taken.  I do not ban from the shadows nor do I do it without giving a warning or five.  By making it a news item I can make sure everyone has a chance to know what a Mod has done, not to showcase the individual.

Second, the reasons he was banned echoed of an on going issue on A.ORG.  My, "There's a new Sheriff in town" talk could have been done better, but on the same note there is no one perfect way to describe or explain my position.

Was there more to CJs ban then what is in the thread?  Yes.  Am I going to talk about the particulars?  No.  The OP covered the breaches so, hopefully, this will be avoided in the future.

Truth is I HATE putting out names.  The only reason I do it here is for the reasons I mentioned above.  If you think my tactics are too much one way or another, okay, that's fine.  But if you want to express yourself about me or anyone else on A.ORG in an abusive way, that's not fine.

People are allowed to have a difference of opinion and as I've said on countless occasions that is what makes the Amiga so great!  But when you purposely post to cause discord or anything else that breaks the TOS, how can you NOT get penalized?  
 
Oh, and if you think I am allowed to run around banning people willy-nilly, I already have, and replied to, a PM from SysAdmin to explain my actions.  It's all part of the job.  I know it is thankless.  But I still do it and I'll continue to do it the best way I know how.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: slaapliedje on October 13, 2013, 05:33:11 PM
I find it kind of useful to know who's been banned and for how long.  If you happen to be corresponding with someone that you only know through here, and they get banned for a week, at least you'd know why they weren't replying.

slaapliedje
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: wawrzon on October 13, 2013, 05:38:07 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;750005
The "electric cars" section is a total waste of space and only exists to create some revenue for the site owner. And, more importantly: every time you stumble over it you're reminded that said site owner is trying to cover that up.


in this case id say: whatever! if it is a revenue to site owner allowing us to use this site to post our crap, im all for it. i have not even noticed that section and surely it does not take any unnecessary room as long as none is posting there, so whats there to complain about? even though i have usually been critical about the site owners practices in many cases, this in my eyes is nitpicking.

this said i dont see it as reason enough for banning whomever, though a week ban may be within a moderation error tolerance. ive been banned like that in here and on aw.net and got over with it. i hope thats what cj will act like as i see him as valuable poster. honestly id go for general amnesty and have people like franko and vox again here, no matter if i agree with them or not.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: mrmoonlight on October 13, 2013, 05:52:12 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;750022
in this case id say: whatever! if it is a revenue to site owner allowing us to use this site to post our crap, im all for it. i have not even noticed that section and surely it does not take any unnecessary room as long as none is posting there, so whats there to complain about? even though i have usually been critical about the site owners practices in many cases, this in my eyes is nitpicking.
 
this said i dont see it as reason enough for banning whomever, though a week ban may be within a moderation error tolerance. ive been banned like that in here and on aw.net and got over with it. i hope thats what cj will act like as i see him as valuable poster. honestly id go for general amnesty and have people like franko and vox again here, no matter if i agree with them or not.

 
  I will second that bring back Franko  he will liven the place up and he can teach me a bit more ,best wishes Brian.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: EDanaII on October 13, 2013, 06:02:10 PM
Franko, as best I can tell, has been banned from just about every forum he has joined...


Quote
in this case id say: whatever! if it is a revenue to site owner allowing us to use this site to post our crap, im all for it. i have not even noticed that section and surely it does not take any unnecessary room as long as none is posting there, so whats there to complain about? even though i have usually been critical about the site owners practices in many cases, this in my eyes is nitpicking.


Let's say, for the sake of argument, that such advertising does bring in revenue and keeps the site going. If money is good, then more money is even better. So, now, the owner opens more electric car forums and people start responding to them... there's a chance that this forum could stop being about Amigas and be about electric cars.

Is the above scenario a stretch? Yes, a little bit, but it could happen and suddenly "Amiga.org" is no longer of any use to the rest us. It's better if the Owner just opened up a TeslaRules.com forum and be done with it.

That said, CommodoreJohn can sometimes be a bit over-vocal. He often protests to strongly over issue that I, ordinarily, would have let go. But banning him at all for protesting an irrelevant forum to me is a bit much. Myself, as a moderator, would have likely responded "your protest is noted" and let it go at that.

But then again, as a moderator/admin of another Forum, I wouldn't be opening up any sub-forums that violate the actual purpose of the site. So, no, there won't be any Amiga sub-forums on my B-17 site even if it did make me money. Instead, I'd likely create another Site called "the Lovers of Amiga and B-17 Forum." I suspect it would be a pretty empty forum, but I bet it would generate as much money  as the Tesla forums are generating here...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: cgutjahr on October 13, 2013, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;750027
Franko, as best I can tell, has been banned from just about every forum he has joined...

Yep, maybe the people wanting him back should take that as a clue.

Quote

Is the above scenario a stretch? Yes, a little bit, but it could happen

Something similar already happened. For the better part of a year, the owner(s) of the site were doing their best to create as many flame fests as possible - we all remember the CUSA threads which were created and constantly bumped by "Tedd", or how Franko was allowed to insult whoever he wanted or derail as many threads as he could muster.

All of that was an obvious attempt at boosting the site statistics (because that's what flame wars do, at least in the short term) - and the only reason you'd want to do that is to increase potential advertising revenue.

Just look at what that did to amiga.org...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: ferrellsl on October 13, 2013, 06:32:04 PM
Quote from: J-Golden;750018
The reason Commodrejohn was banned for a week was because he broke the TOS after he was given a warning.

I announced it for several reasons.  First was that I usually make it known when I do this because I feel everyone deserves to know when such an action is taken.  I do not ban from the shadows nor do I do it without giving a warning or five.  By making it a news item I can make sure everyone has a chance to know what a Mod has done, not to showcase the individual.

Second, the reasons he was banned echoed of an on going issue on A.ORG.  My, "There's a new Sheriff in town" talk could have been done better, but on the same note there is no one perfect way to describe or explain my position.

Was there more to CJs ban then what is in the thread?  Yes.  Am I going to talk about the particulars?  No.  The OP covered the breaches so, hopefully, this will be avoided in the future.

Truth is I HATE putting out names.  The only reason I do it here is for the reasons I mentioned above.  If you think my tactics are too much one way or another, okay, that's fine.  But if you want to express yourself about me or anyone else on A.ORG in an abusive way, that's not fine.

People are allowed to have a difference of opinion and as I've said on countless occasions that is what makes the Amiga so great!  But when you purposely post to cause discord or anything else that breaks the TOS, how can you NOT get penalized?  
 
Oh, and if you think I am allowed to run around banning people willy-nilly, I already have, and replied to, a PM from SysAdmin to explain my actions.  It's all part of the job.  I know it is thankless.  But I still do it and I'll continue to do it the best way I know how.


I'm glad he's been banned for a while.  On many threads, he drove people off by using it as a bully-pulpit especially if it was a thread of his starting.  Anyone who disagreed with him or had a differing viewpoint, was in simpler terms, called an idiot and told to shut up.  I think that's been a problem for A.org for a while now, people who want to use the forums to be bullies rather than a place of discussion and information sharing.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 13, 2013, 06:38:04 PM
Amiga.org used to be a great forum for hackers (the good kind,) those in the know, those moderately in the know, and those who wished to be could mingle; 99% of the threads in the hot list were directly Amiga-related.  It used to be an Amiga forum.  Now it's devolved into an IRC channel.  Sometimes I wonder why it's still at the top of my "awesome bar."
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: wawrzon on October 13, 2013, 06:38:37 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;750022
honestly id go for general amnesty and have people like franko and vox again here, no matter if i agree with them or not.


oh have not noticed vox is back anyway.;)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: wawrzon on October 13, 2013, 06:46:05 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;750031
Yep, maybe the people wanting him back should take that as a clue.

why? i can well make up my conclusions myself. im sorry, but i refuse to be given clue by sorts of moderation that bans people on those sites you have in mind (i can name only two).
Quote

Something similar already happened. For the better part of a year, the owner(s) of the site were doing their best to create as many flame fests as possible - we all remember the CUSA threads which were created and constantly bumped by "Tedd", or how Franko was allowed to insult whoever he wanted or derail as many threads as he could muster.

All of that was an obvious attempt at boosting the site statistics (because that's what flame wars do, at least in the short term) - and the only reason you'd want to do that is to increase potential advertising revenue.

Just look at what that did to amiga.org...


whatever, thats another subject that has been discussed to the death on appropriate occasion. on those subjects i usually agree, but not in this case, and i ask who of ask has actually been harmed by this action. anyone?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SpeedGeek on October 13, 2013, 06:58:45 PM
Announcing a members ban (temporary or semi-permanent) is not done to showcase or cause further insult to the banned member. It's done to let other members know why this happened and REMIND all members that they DID agree to follow this sites rules when they signed up.

If no explanation was posted then it would lead to SPECULATION of why the member was banned and there would still be member disagreement over the ban. This would result in even more wasted space.

The worse thing that has happened here is that CJ has joined a growing list of banned and reinstated members. The best thing that can happen is that CJ and the others will return with some respect for the mods and rules even if they disagree with them.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: wawrzon on October 13, 2013, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: SpeedGeek;750039
Announcing a members ban (temporary or semi-permanent) is not done to showcase or cause further insult to the banned member. It's done to let other members why this happened and REMIND all members that they DID agree to follow this sites rules when they signed up.he others will return with some respect for the mods and rules even if they disagree with them.

if you say so.. when i was banned for a week or so, none cared to mention this let alone dedicate a thread to this event :( ... sad..
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: vox on October 13, 2013, 07:38:34 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;750035
oh have not noticed vox is back anyway.;)

Being back on personal request, I still vote for general amnesty, even I am not a president :-)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: kickstart on October 13, 2013, 07:50:42 PM
@owner admins or whatever

After this power demonstration, i don't know commodorejohn or his opinions at this moment and i don't care of it... why not fix the login problems?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Tempest on October 13, 2013, 09:19:27 PM
Quote from: kickstart;750042
@owner admins or whatever

After this power demostration, i dont knot commodorejohn or his opinions at this moment and i dont care of it... why not fix the login problems?


Why bother login in, this site isn't worth it.

I already removed amiga.org from my bookmarks a couple of years ago because it just isn't worth it anymore but occasionally I visit this site, just like today.

This was once a great site with lots of usefull information for Amiga owners but the last couple of years it's gone downhill really fast.

The reason commodorejohn was banned is bogus and making a news item out of it is totally ridiculous. That's just crap moderation, no way around it, just man up and admit it.

Please mister crap moderator ban me for live, I have no intensions to visit this site anyways as it has nothing to do with Amiga anymore. Luckily there still are some sites that do.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: yssing on October 13, 2013, 10:30:44 PM
What a kindergarten!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Iggy on October 13, 2013, 10:43:01 PM
Quote from: ferrellsl;750032
I'm glad he's been banned for a while.  On many threads, he drove people off by using it as a bully-pulpit especially if it was a thread of his starting.  Anyone who disagreed with him or had a differing viewpoint, was in simpler terms, called an idiot and told to shut up.  I think that's been a problem for A.org for a while now, people who want to use the forums to be bullies rather than a place of discussion and information sharing.

Well, not without admitting my own faults (of this nature), you're not the most laid back easy going guy yourself.

And the demeaning and abusive language is why some people like AmigaDave are not seen here any more.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: CritAnime on October 13, 2013, 11:39:23 PM
Well this was a interesting read.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on October 14, 2013, 03:21:22 AM
It wasn't just arguing. It was repeating the same argument over and over again.
The last time jumping through several threads.

I think the mods here are more generous than other places.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: TheBilgeRat on October 14, 2013, 03:25:09 AM
Boooring.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: desiv on October 14, 2013, 03:40:04 AM
Quote from: Iggy;749979
You folks all act like this is some kid's club and you can just revoke someone's access to to tree house.

Actually, they can, and there is nothing childish about it..
There are LOTS of places where you will get banned if you don't act like an adult.

Now, I have no idea if the ban was deserved or not..

But this IS their site and they DO have the right to ban whomever they feel violated their ToS.

I get really confused when adults don't understand that, because it is exactly the way it works in the adult world...

And as for "gloating," that's one way to look at it.
Another is that it's way of letting people know what will happen.

At work, when people get in trouble for going places the "shouldn't" on the internet, they are always asked to step down and no one knows about it..

In my mind, if we were able to state just once that "Mister X was let go because he went places he shouldn't have on the internet," then maybe some other people would be less likely to try it themselves..

And in a free market (and the Internet is the ultimate in free), there are checks and balances..
If it happens too little, the site becomes a troll central (for good or bad).  If it happens too much, people stop going there..
Site mods try to find a balance..

And that balance can (and probably should) include bans to help keep it balanced.

It happens in the real world.  It happens on the Internet...
Big deal..  Such is life..  ;-)

desiv
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 14, 2013, 05:08:38 AM
Quote from: desiv;750090
Actually, they can, and there is nothing childish about it..
There are LOTS of places where you will get banned if you don't act like an adult.

Now, I have no idea if the ban was deserved or not..

But this IS their site and they DO have the right to ban whomever they feel violated their ToS.

I get really confused when adults don't understand that, because it is exactly the way it works in the adult world...

And as for "gloating," that's one way to look at it.
Another is that it's way of letting people know what will happen.

At work, when people get in trouble for going places the "shouldn't" on the internet, they are always asked to step down and no one knows about it..

In my mind, if we were able to state just once that "Mister X was let go because he went places he shouldn't have on the internet," then maybe some other people would be less likely to try it themselves..

And in a free market (and the Internet is the ultimate in free), there are checks and balances..
If it happens too little, the site becomes a troll central (for good or bad).  If it happens too much, people stop going there..
Site mods try to find a balance..

And that balance can (and probably should) include bans to help keep it balanced.

It happens in the real world.  It happens on the Internet...
Big deal..  Such is life..  ;-)

desiv

You also forgot to mention for the grown ups here that for each action comes responsibilities and consequences.....
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SysAdmin on October 14, 2013, 07:35:42 AM
Quote from: cgutjahr;750005
Not sure I would refer to his thread (it's still there (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66078), btw.) as "taking a dump". The "electric cars" section is a total waste of space and only exists to create some revenue for the site owner. And, more importantly: every time you stumble over it you're reminded that said site owner is trying to cover that up.

This is your assumption and it's incorrect. In reality I inherited Amiga.org from Wayne and Tedd which already included sub-forums called Coffee House which are discussions that have nothing to do with Amiga. These forums have tens of thousands of messages that I don't read and have no interest in like Politics. My gut feeling when I took over the site was to eliminate these non-Amiga forums. If I did that I would upset tons of members that post in and enjoy these sub-forums. I don't want to upset Amiga.org members or take away their Coffee House since it already existed when I took over the site.

So if I have to keep the Coffee House around as the site owner I added a couple of forums I have interest in, Electric Cars for example. I don't make revenue from that sub-forum, I own and am interested in Electric cars. I consider Electric cars the Amiga of the car industry. Misunderstood, trolled, strong feelings for and  against them. Like an Amiga when you try one you will understand why  owners love them.

So the short answer is either the entire Coffee House goes bye bye or I have 2-3 topics in the Coffee House I have an interest in. You don't have to read them if you have no interest. Just like I don't read CH / Politics.

Sorry that I am just now posting in this thread, my grandmother past  away yesterday and I have not been on the site much since then.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SysAdmin on October 14, 2013, 07:39:43 AM
Quote from: kickstart;750042
@owner admins or whatever

After this power demonstration, i don't know commodorejohn or his opinions at this moment and i don't care of it... why not fix the login problems?

We are working on a solution to fix the login problem forever.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: gertsy on October 14, 2013, 12:18:58 PM
Hmm step out for a few days and look what's happened. Could do with some colour around the place. Don't know the background but sounds as if a warning was given but ignored. C'est la vie!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: yssing on October 14, 2013, 01:27:22 PM
@SysAdmin >> While we are at the subject of fixing things on the site, maybe it would be possible to add bootstrap or make the site responsive using an other tool.
I browse this site using my phone more than I use a computer.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 14, 2013, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: yssing;750115
@SysAdmin >> While we are at the subject of fixing things on the site, maybe it would be possible to add bootstrap or make the site responsive using an other tool.
I browse this site using my phone more than I use a computer.


Adding features isn't really fixing things.  Anyway, I've had good results using the "mobile" style selection at the bottom of the page with the NetFront browser built into my phones.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: yssing on October 14, 2013, 02:31:18 PM
I never noticed that scheme before :D
It's ugly, but it works.

I would in this case, argue that adding responsive, is infact fixing things, since the site does not render very well on small screen devivces.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: broken on October 14, 2013, 03:35:39 PM
Quote from: SysAdmin;750102
I consider Electric cars the Amiga of the car industry. Misunderstood, trolled, strong feelings for and  against them. Like an Amiga when you try one you will understand why  owners love them.




lol
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 14, 2013, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: SysAdmin;750102
Misunderstood, trolled, strong feelings for and  against them. Like an Amiga when you try one you will understand why  owners love them.


That's what i think about redheads.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 14, 2013, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: yssing;750115
@SysAdmin >> While we are at the subject of fixing things on the site, maybe it would be possible to add bootstrap or make the site responsive using an other tool.
I browse this site using my phone more than I use a computer.


Screw using a smartphone. If you really cool you would be browsing using a classic Amiga. Which is what i would be doing if i actually owned an Amiga  : /
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 14, 2013, 06:24:47 PM
Quote from: Kesa;750124
That's what i think about redheads.


See attached.

Quote from: Kesa;750125
Screw using a smartphone. If you really cool you would be browsing using a classic Amiga. Which is what i would be doing if i actually owned an Amiga  : /


I am considering trading in my Amiga for an electric car.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Fats on October 14, 2013, 06:28:34 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;750005
Not sure I would refer to his thread (it's still there (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66078), btw.) as "taking a dump". The "electric cars" section is a total waste of space and only exists to create some revenue for the site owner. And, more importantly: every time you stumble over it you're reminded that said site owner is trying to cover that up.

+1

Edit:
Quote from: SysAdmin;750102
I don't make revenue from that sub-forum, I own and am interested in Electric cars

OK; but wouldn't it be better that you discuss that hobby then on sites where more interested people are present?
I also have a feature request then: could subfora not be marked to be excluded from one's 'New Posts' overview? It would be handy for even more than the 'Electric Cars' subforum.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 14, 2013, 06:43:42 PM
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;750089
Boooring.

Yawn.  Can we go back to talking about Amiga's now?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: J-Golden on October 14, 2013, 07:32:18 PM
Quote from: Kesa;750124
That's what i think about redheads.

Bwa-HAHAHA!

imma a redhead. :D

And my personal motto is, "Since I don't have a soul, I've got nothing to lose!"
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: yssing on October 15, 2013, 08:57:05 AM
@kesa, yes and why evolve at all, html 1 also worked.
I can't take my amiga with my, however I can take my smartphone with me.

I havent tried netsurf aga on my a1200/060 yet, but I do look forward to try it, I just rarely boot my A1200.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SysAdmin on October 15, 2013, 10:25:51 AM
@Fats

You do realize that sub-forum is in the Coffee House section right? You have to go hunting for any threads in those sub-forums. Are you casting your vote for the elimination of the Coffee House? On a separate note thanx for the suggestion and  we will investigate your feature request.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Linde on October 15, 2013, 12:43:09 PM
Quote
No more, "Let me explain my feelings on how I mod" discousions.
There's been a lot of that in this thread so... to the banmobile!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 15, 2013, 01:10:20 PM
Quote from: SysAdmin;750167
You do realize that sub-forum is in the Coffee House section right? You have to go hunting for any threads in those sub-forums. Are you casting your vote for the elimination of the Coffee House? On a separate note thanx for the suggestion and  we will investigate your feature request.

So what you are saying is that if you can't promote electric cars you are going to eliminate the Coffee House? Why would you even say this?

If you did shut down the Coffee House the decision to do so would blow up in your face. The Coffee House is a part of the culture of Amiga.org and even as owner you cannot forcibly change this culture. The members here won't let you. As owner, your role is to maintain the culture - not change it.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SysAdmin on October 15, 2013, 01:22:27 PM
You got it, the Coffee House is part of Amiga.org'a culture and won't be going anywhere. It's my job to add new interesting things to the Coffee House thus the new forums for Immortality, Electric Cars and Quantum Computers are now also part of Amiga.org's culture. My decision is final and those new forums will be staying. If your not interested don't read them. Embrace the interesting future or ignore it. The Coffee House is a minor part of the site. 99% of Amiga.org is about Amiga, MorphOS, AROS, FPGA & Amiga Forever.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: yssing on October 15, 2013, 01:32:53 PM
Maybe you could add Space Exploration as well?
It is somewhat amiga related even.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: EDanaII on October 15, 2013, 02:43:06 PM
Yea, I want a Return of the Twinkie forum!

My problem with the coffee house forums is that, unlike Politics, Philosophy/Religion, Science/Technology, the Electric Cars, and Immortality forums are oddly specific.

Perhaps they belong under more generalized categories? Like, I dunno... Science and Technology? Or Philosophy/Religion?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Linde on October 15, 2013, 03:08:20 PM
Immortality, really? What's next, a sub-forum on magnotherapy? Make that a feature request, actually.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SysAdmin on October 15, 2013, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: EDanaII;750185
Yea, I want a Return of the Twinkie forum!

My problem with the coffee house forums is that, unlike Politics, Philosophy/Religion, Science/Technology, the Electric Cars, and Immortality forums are oddly specific.

Perhaps they belong under more generalized categories? Like, I dunno... Science and Technology? Or Philosophy/Religion?


I'm not sure what to say to that. We do have a stainless steel purple jockey underwear forum that's even more specific.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: EDanaII on October 15, 2013, 04:25:26 PM
Sounds like it belongs in the Science and Technology forum to me. :D
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Fats on October 15, 2013, 06:23:40 PM
Quote from: SysAdmin;750167
@Fats

You do realize that sub-forum is in the Coffee House section right? You have to go hunting for any threads in those sub-forums. Are you casting your vote for the elimination of the Coffee House? On a separate note thanx for the suggestion and  we will investigate your feature request.


I am using the 'New Posts' feature which shows the last posts from when someone has last viewed a.org and CH posts show up there.
I won't miss CH if it is gone, I'm not demanding it to be gone either.

And I still don't understand why you keep posting new posts where nobody reacts to.

greets,
Staf.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: kickstart on October 15, 2013, 11:42:24 PM
Yes... all the efforts on this stupid topics of coffe house, congratulations (i never enter to this "threads"), this is a semi-dead amiga forum with lack of tutorials, DIY, important users go away from here...

Visit a.org and after eab or a1k (in german :()... by example and the feeling is totally different.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: nicholas on October 16, 2013, 12:09:37 AM
Quote from: kickstart;750217
Yes... all the efforts on this stupid topics of coffe house, congratulations (i never enter to this "threads"), this is a semi-dead amiga forum with lack of tutorials, DIY, important users go away from here...

Visit a.org and after eab or a1k (in german :()... by example and the feeling is totally different.

The only site I use Chrome for Android to browse is A1K because it auto-translates the site for me. Automated Deutsch to English is not so bad really but I'm not sure how well it would translate to Suomi. ;)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Iggy on October 16, 2013, 12:13:31 AM
Quote from: nicholas;750219
The only site I use Chrome for Android to browse is A1K because it auto-translates the site for me. Automated Deutsch to English is not so bad really but I'm not sure how well it would translate to Suomi. ;)

Seconded, great function, but Chrome crashes on me with almost the same regularity as Safari.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: nicholas on October 16, 2013, 12:21:01 AM
Quote from: Iggy;750220
Seconded, great function, but Chrome crashes on me with almost the same regularity as Safari.

The Android brain of Chrome is very nice and very stable too but I'm addicted to Firefox addons so use it as my main browser on Android, OSX and Linux.

I'd even use it on MorphOS if I could even though Odyssey is an amazing browser.  Not that the Wonder Twins will ever release the source to their OS4 port for anyone else to port to MOS/AROS/68k.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: nicholas on October 16, 2013, 12:31:15 AM
What is wrong with this site tonight?

Whenever I try to edit a post when I click save I get an error box that looks like a 3.1 console window and the error code is "shrug".

The word brain in my last post should be "version" but auto complete on CM10.1's swipe keyboard is crap!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: nicholas on October 16, 2013, 12:34:52 AM
Quote from: Fats;750197
I am using the 'New Posts' feature which shows the last posts from when someone has last viewed a.org and CH posts show up there.
I won't miss CH if it is gone, I'm not demanding it to be gone either.

And I still don't understand why you keep posting new posts where nobody reacts to.

greets,
Staf.

I use the "50 Latest Posts" link and it doesn't show any CH posts. Thought you might find it useful too.

http://www.amiga.org/index.php?pageid=50latest
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: darkage on October 16, 2013, 03:36:18 AM
Man I thought today I'll return to check out whats happening on A.org and now I see this post..

What did CommodoreJohn do that was so bad ?

In other news looks like a.com has found a home on the BB online store :(
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: zipper on October 16, 2013, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: nicholas;750219
The only site I use Chrome for Android to browse is A1K because it auto-translates the site for me. Automated Deutsch to English is not so bad really but I'm not sure how well it would translate to Suomi. ;)

Well, mostly humorous. With my rusty German best to stay in German language yet. Some difficult words may be translated that otherwise should be picked from a translating source. And funny attempts to translate the user names. With no German skills probably half of the translated texts are somehow intelligible.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Megamig on October 16, 2013, 01:47:25 PM
Banning someone! How about the first amendment?

Personally, I believe those who sit behind a screen, block others and then make a post about it do so because they either get a thrill out of it or lack any control within their personal lives. What they really need to do is a seek some professional advice instead of wasting their time on here.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: dammy on October 16, 2013, 02:09:07 PM
Quote from: Megamig;750258
Banning someone! How about the first amendment?


1st Amendment applies to the government and not to private entities such as amiga.org.

Quote
Personally, I believe those who sit behind a screen, block others and then make a post about it do so because they either get a thrill out of it or lack any control within their personal lives. What they really need to do is a seek some professional advice instead of wasting their time on here.


CJ deserved being banned many times over the years, IMO.  It finally caught up to him and he got 7 day ban, big deal.  Now I do think creating a news item/thread over it was not the way to handle it, but that's AO's management's call.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 16, 2013, 02:44:56 PM
Quote from: dammy;750260
1st Amendment applies to the government and not to private entities such as amiga.org.


Thank you.  I am tired of the distortion of the First Amendment from people who cannot be bothered to :rtfm:, let alone understand the difference between a "freedom" and a "right."
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 16, 2013, 10:11:06 PM
What is the difference between a freedom and a right? Maybe you could explain this to us non-Americans (i hope it makes more sense than trying to justify gun culture).
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 17, 2013, 12:31:51 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750277
What is the difference between a freedom and a right? Maybe you could explain this to us non-Americans (i hope it makes more sense than trying to justify gun culture).

In the simplest sense, a "right" is something which is guaranteed by our Creator as an inherent component of our existence: to wit, life.  A "freedom," on a similar token, is something like an act which we are innately capable of performing, but which may have limitations based upon cultural perspective or other governance.  Both may also be self-limited.

In regards to speech, we accept that everyone has ideas and thoughts and is free to conjure them, while at the same time we also understand there are appropriate venues for expression.  For instance, in most cultures there are certain topics of conversation which are deemed inappropriate for children, topics which we do not discuss at the dinner table, or things we may say around our friends but not around customers.  The concern is not about offending someone, but more about the decorum of the position or situation.  No matter the concern, you may be chastised for exercising speech in inappropriate situations, though rarely would (or should) you be criminally punished for doing so.

The Supreme Court of the United States has also gone so far as to address speech which may be dangerous to public safety (shouting "fire" in a crowded theater) or instances of security as such speech may be the cause of injury or fatality to others.

It's hierarchical, as well.  You have the right to worship under religion, and the freedom to choose which religion to follow; or not in both regards.  As a consumer you have the right to purchase toilet paper, and the freedom to choose the brand, two-ply, rough or soft.

Both are naturally limited when it comes to the violation of others' rights or freedoms.  In terms of living, I have the right to life but not the right to live by denying you your right to life.  I have the freedom to choose how to live my life, but it is frowned upon to do so at the imposition of the freedoms of others.

Some rights are not just rights, but duties as well.  For democratic societies the right to vote is also a responsibility for the society cannot exist without the exercise of this right.  Even so, one may, and often does, exercise the freedom not to participate.

This is just simple and really only touches the surface.  There are much deeper arguments which go beyond a simple explanation and some on which I simply am not qualified to pontificate -- many which we face today, some for time immemorial.  Governance is a huge issue when it comes to rights and freedoms as government's natural tendency is toward tyranny, which is the loss of both.  We can also exist in a quasi-tyrannical state called a soft-tyranny in which we willfully cease or otherwise surrender our rights and freedoms because of the perception of imposed consequences.

I hope that I've been fairly articulate here.  You mentioned "gun culture," which has derogatory connotation.  Gun ownership is essentially a freedom we have to choose how we supplement our lives provided we do not impose upon others.  We concluded at our Founding that our right to life included the freedom not to have a sundry, or necessary, implement of our lives taken from us provided it was not used to harass or harm others.

We also concluded that, in the peaceful exercise of our freedoms, we had the right to be free from harassment thereof.  In direct regard to gun ownership: we concluded based upon history that people's right to life included the responsibility to defend themselves against tyrannical society or governance, and that arming themselves was part and parcel to this responsibility and therefore, as a component of our right to life, a right in and of itself.

(As well, I truly hope my explanation does justice to these immensely important constructs. In doing so, I often feel like I am trying to define the devine.)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: persia on October 17, 2013, 12:41:59 AM
We've been fighting for a bill of rights to be incorporated into our (Australian) Constitution.  It isn't going to come under the Abbott regime though.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: agami on October 17, 2013, 01:42:19 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;750263
Thank you.  I am tired of the distortion of the First Amendment from people who cannot be bothered to :rtfm:, let alone understand the difference between a "freedom" and a "right."

Here's where things get a little knotted: It is the right to free speech as provided by the Bill of Rights component of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

So is it both a right and a freedom? It's not like the Freedom of Information Act because Freedom of Speech was never enacted and is therefore not a judicial matter, where binding Terms and Conditions for use of a service are.

Or maybe free is used as a verb? So citizens of the United States have the right to free speech, if say speech were being held captive?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: agami on October 17, 2013, 01:51:51 AM
Quote from: persia;750286
We've been fighting for a bill of rights to be incorporated into our (Australian) Constitution.  It isn't going to come under the Abbott regime though.


We don't need a Bill of Rights to recognise the inalienable rights available to all residents of the Commonwealth of Australia. The legislative house already operates with those principles.

One problem is; the second you right these things down is the very second people start picking at them.

Another problem is; humans are inherently corrupt, and whether you swear it as an MP or have it written down as a Magna Carta, people will continuously find ways to step around these things.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 17, 2013, 05:52:57 AM
Thanks LoadWB. Maybe too much info but that's OK. I still don't understand gun culture though. I have in my 29 years of life never seen a gun before apart from the police which are not even loaded. Why do you need guns in the first place? We don't need them - why do you?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 17, 2013, 06:39:54 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750298
Thanks LoadWB. Maybe too much info but that's OK. I still don't understand gun culture though. I have in my 29 years of life never seen a gun before apart from the police which are not even loaded. Why do you need guns in the first place? We don't need them - why do you?

Honestly, I don't think I included enough information.  I tried to pare it down some to give simple comparison and illustrations.

Where does this term "gun culture" come from?  The question isn't so much about "need."  We all have our basic "needs" which provide our survival.  We also have our individual "wants" or "likes," and one of those happens to be guns.  It could be anything, really.  Guns are hobbies and for most people a responsible way of life.  The fact that so many in our society abuse guns does not in any way give power to have them taken away from those who use them responsibly and for the right reasons.  In the hands of the right people a gun is effective for self-defense.  The "anti-gun culture" plasters the rest of the 10% all over the place for its own purposes, completely ignoring the reality and statistics.

Again, though, the gun debate completely detracts from the fundamentals.  If one answers the question of, "Why should people not own guns" with, "Because they are dangerous and can kill people," then the same question can easily be applied to anything on the slippery-slope leading to the point of many things suddenly being defined as dangerous and therefore needing prohibition or severe regulation.

Gun ownership is a question of personal property rights.  I own guns because I enjoy the skill involved in shooting, and because I am trained to use them effectively, and by corollary to NOT use them when appropriate.  The thinking is the same as a martial art: the idea is to know when to use it for proper defense, never for offense, and never to gain attention.  Should I have my guns taken from me because my neighbor abuses his, or rather more accurately statistically abuses one he has acquired illegitimately?  Should I have my kitchen knives over eight inches long be taken away because the man down the street used a similar item to kill someone?

In terms of personal property, I have a finite time on this Earth.  I spend that time earning a living performing jobs for other people.  Those people compensate me as an exchange for the time I have provided to them from my finite supply.  I then use that compensation to obtain products for myself, some to keep and some to consume.  The property I keep, or wealth I accumulate, becomes a tangible incarnation of the expenditure of my life.  Therefore, my property IS my life, and illegitimately taking away my property is tantamount to taking away my life.

PM me with your address.  I have a book I will send you if you promise you will read it -- the expense is worth it to me if you will do so.  It is a great book culminating centuries of the guiding philosophy of the American creed.  I've read a good number of the books referenced, and I have to say this one masterfully pulls it all together and has lead me to more.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 17, 2013, 07:36:06 AM
I've had this very same debate with many of my American friends and it always ends the same way. They basically say what you said and i reply with "but i still don't understand why you need guns in the first place" which is the honest truth. I don't think either of us is going to convinve the other they are right or wrong so we should just leave it at that. No point getting heated over it.

I think gun loving Americans are born into it that is why they are so accepting of it whereas the rest of us non Americans haven't been. I'm sure if i were born where you are i would probably have a different perspective on it.

I think it's scary how you try to justify having guns as hobbies and then compare them to kitchen knifes as a point in argument. I mean, really? That's silly.

Where i am if you even mention the word gun everyone will think you are a bad person and i'm pretty sure every cop in town will be bashing your door down before you kill someone but you talk about guns as if they are harmless hobbies. Really scary stuff.

Overall i think you and i are living in two very different perspectives so each to their own. Thanks for the offer for the book but i already have my mind made up so i probably wouldn't read it. Thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 17, 2013, 08:09:30 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750301
I've had this very same debate with many of my American friends and it always ends the same way. They basically say what you said and i reply with "but i still don't understand why you need guns in the first place" which is the honest truth. I don't think either of us is going to convinve the other they are right or wrong so we should just leave it at that. No point getting heated over it.

I think gun loving Americans are born into it that is why they are so accepting of it whereas the rest of us non Americans haven't been. I'm sure if i were born where you are i would probably have a different perspective on it.

I think it's scary how you try to justify having guns as hobbies and then compare them to kitchen knifes as a point in argument. I mean, really? That's silly.

Where i am if you even mention the word gun everyone will think you are a bad person and i'm pretty sure every cop in town will be bashing your door down before you kill someone but you talk about guns as if they are harmless hobbies. Really scary stuff.

Overall i think you and i are living in two very different perspectives so each to their own. Thanks for the offer for the book but i already have my mind made up so i probably wouldn't read it. Thanks anyway.

Not heated, so long as you don't come to my door with the force of law to take anything away from me which is rightfully mine to own and do with as I please.  

I do not consider comparing a knife to a gun silly; in terms of what I may or may not be allowed to own or use, why would I?  I find the presumption that I would eventually kill someone as justification for being a "bad person" and having police invade my sanctum simply for owning a gun far more silly.  Obviously we are from different cultures and we are different people: I accept that I can be secure in my ownership of whatever I desire, and you accept that police may take away whatever they deem I should not on premise alone.  A properly-used gun -- or knife, or hammer, or lead pipe, or car, or umbrella -- is no more dangerous than the Amiga on your desk.

The book I was offering you is not about gun ownership; it isn't propaganda or compelling you to join a cause.  I cannot explain any better what our motivations are, nor can you ever understand us, especially if you have a closed mind: you've made up your mind that if we cannot explain why we "need" something, "want" is invalid or at least insufficient.  I cannot argue a negative.  Again, whether we need certain things is not relevant: it is our God-given right, or our simple right inherent to our very existence, which allows us to possess whatever it is we desire and to be free from harassment provided we do not infringe upon others.  I realize this sentiment is not shared with many in the world, at the very least enshrined in doctrine.

I believe this book would help you to understand us and answer some of the questions you ask of your friends.  It has allowed me to understand some things we know and feel inherent to our nature which is difficult to articulate, those "gut feelings" we get when confronted with certain actions or arguments from others.  While I am disappointed, I appreciate your honesty with me.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SpeedGeek on October 17, 2013, 08:47:47 PM
This thread is way OT. But Kesa has good point in that the gun culture perpetuates itself. Unfortunately, it's at the great cost of human life and we would probably have to have another civil war because gun owners aren't willing to give up their rights for the same reason slave owners refused to give up their slaves.

I happen to be in the minority of people who would voluntarily trade my right to bear arms for a license to bear arms in the interest of saving human lives and that's what I call being true a pro-life advocate (rather than distributing propaganda regarding the unborn).
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 17, 2013, 09:21:34 PM
In terms of defense, and when you wake up and realize that law abiding citizens are NOT the only ones that own guns... and never will, the utopian ideology of the left falls flat on its face. Yes, monsters do exist. Society and liberal policies in general have seen to that.  ;)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: odin on October 17, 2013, 10:01:34 PM
Quote from: SpeedGeek;750335
This thread is way OT.

True, but this topic is a lot better than the original.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: gertsy on October 17, 2013, 10:03:11 PM
Goodness what happened now? Did CommodoreJohn come back and get shot?
  Who shot CommodoreJohn?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Fats on October 17, 2013, 10:14:35 PM
Quote from: nicholas;750226
I use the "50 Latest Posts" link and it doesn't show any CH posts. Thought you might find it useful too.

http://www.amiga.org/index.php?pageid=50latest


Using it now, seems to do the trick.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 17, 2013, 10:17:25 PM
Quote from: SpeedGeek;750335
This thread is way OT. But Kesa has good point in that the gun culture perpetuates itself. Unfortunately, it's at the great cost of human life and we would probably have to have another civil war because gun owners aren't willing to give up their rights for the same reason slave owners refused to give up their slaves.

I happen to be in the minority of people who would voluntarily trade my right to bear arms for a license to bear arms in the interest of saving human lives and that's what I call being true a pro-life advocate (rather than distributing propaganda regarding the unborn).

According to MADD, 27 people are killed by drunk drivers every day.  According to NBC, 30 people are killed by guns every day.

What do?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: ajlwalker on October 17, 2013, 10:29:47 PM
Comparing guns to kitchen knives is indeed silly. One is a designed as a weapon to maim and kill, the other is designed to carry out kitchen tasks. No doubt it can be used to maim and kill, but that is not it's purpose.

Also, those that say the bad guys will still carry guns aren't completely correct. To an extent that will be true, but I bet you fewer bad guys will carry guns. Fewer still would carry guns if the police were unarmed also.

The UK is a dump, but one of the few things going for it is unarmed police. Sure there are bad guys with guns, but your average criminal does not carry a gun as there is no need for one. There is no arms race between the good guys and the bad guys.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Crumb on October 17, 2013, 10:52:47 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;750342
According to MADD, 27 people are killed by drunk drivers every day.  According to NBC, 30 people are killed by guns every day.

What do?
@LoadWB

Quote
According to MADD, 27 people are killed by drunk drivers every day. According to NBC, 30 people are killed by guns every day.

What do?

Increase control and deny driving licenses to irresponsible people. About your gun ideas: what happens I would like to drive a Tank, to walk by the street carrying a bazooka and would love owning some napalm bombs, grenades and nuclear bombs? don't I have the right? USA government allows its citizens to be armed (it's their right) but decides that other countries don't have the right to have weapons, funny uh? strangely USA trains terrorists and sells weapons to terrorist groups.

IMHO only police and army should have weapons. About the right to protect yourself and how weapons protect you: in USA if someone wants to enter your house to steal something he'll simply shoot you in the face when you go out to throw the trashcan and later steals you. In Europe he steals you but leaves you living. I prefer to be steal than murdered.

It's difficult to prevent retards and crazy people accessing weapons. Hunters can access easily weapons, despiting half of them are psychos without empathy. If selling weapons for hunting wouldn't be allowed I would feel much safer too.

It's usual to read news about crazy students killins a dozen of students in USA. That doesn't happen in European countries due to weapons not being so common.

In general "life" worths much less in America than in Europe: it's easier than someone kills you to steal you in USA, Mexico and some southamerican countries than in European ones, killing you to steal you is a concept difficult to understand here... even for robbers. They can steal you without killing you and concepts like "self-defense" doesn't exist here so you can't kill robbers who enter your house (otherwise you open the doors to a slaughterhouse... if you wanted to kill somebody you could easily trick him to visit your house, kill him and claim he attacked you)

Would you give shotguns to 12-year boys so they can protect themselves of each others? They have the right, don't they? oh perhaps they aren't mature enough... what do we do with people over 21 that are not mature enough? Some people with more than 50 years will never mature anyway...

IMHO the world is better without violence and violence tools. Weapons should only be owned by armies and police. Of course you can kill people with a knife but many less, just like if you get mad you'll kill less people with a knife than with a bazooka.

Anyway European countries sell anti-personal mines and weapons to other countries so it's not so pink here.

But if you think everyone should have the right to own weapons you should agree every country deserves having nuclear weapons to bomb your cities.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 17, 2013, 11:23:04 PM
Quote from: Crumb;750345
@LoadWB

Increase control and deny driving licenses to irresponsible people. About your gun ideas: what happens I would like to drive a Tank, to walk by the street carrying a bazooka and would love owning some napalm bombs, grenades and nuclear bombs? don't I have the right? USA government allows its citizens to be armed (it's their right) but decides that other countries don't have the right to have weapons, funny uh? strangely USA trains terrorists and sells weapons to terrorist groups.

If you read what I said, I pretty clearly point to government as a problem.  I cannot speak for our government as for the past 100 years our government has represented us less and less.  As for your outrageous scenario with tanks and bazookas, again, we have the right to bear arms, but the freedom of what arms we may choose is limited.  Napalm?  That's easy enough to make so, sure, I can have that.  But I cannot use it.  Grenades?  Sure, but I cannot use them without repercussions.  Tank?  Sure, but impractical and the average citizen would not be able to arm it.  Bazooka?  Pretty certain that's limited.

Quote
IMHO only police and army should have weapons. About the right to protect yourself and how weapons protect you: in USA if someone wants to enter your house to steal something he'll simply shoot you in the face when you go out to throw the trashcan and later steals you. In Europe he steals you but leaves you living. I prefer to be steal than murdered.

(citation needed)

Quote
It's difficult to prevent retards and crazy people accessing weapons. Hunters can access easily weapons, despiting half of them are psychos without empathy. If selling weapons for hunting wouldn't be allowed I would feel much safer too.

Again, (citation needed).  My grandfather was a hunter and the first thing he taught me about guns was what they could do to a person and how we never want that to happen.

Quote
It's usual to read news about crazy students killins a dozen of students in USA. That doesn't happen in European countries due to weapons not being so common.

Again, the vast majority of those killings are perpetrated by people who have obtained the guns illegally or illegitimately, and even more noteworthy is how all but one of the mass murders in the past decade and a-half have been committed in gun-free zones.

Quote
In general "life" worths much less in America than in Europe: it's easier than someone kills you to steal you in USA, Mexico and some southamerican countries than in European ones, killing you to steal you is a concept difficult to understand here... even for robbers. They can steal you without killing you and concepts like "self-defense" doesn't exist here so you can't kill robbers who enter your house (otherwise you open the doors to a slaughterhouse... if you wanted to kill somebody you could easily trick him to visit your house, kill him and claim he attacked you)

I read your first point several times, and I still cannot make sense of it.  Sure, I can post on Craigslist and invite you to my home and rape, torture, and kill you.  We can kill someone who enters our home and is a threat, but there is no slaughterhouse here.  Recently the big anti-gun culture target was the Florida "Stand Your Ground" law, which gives someone a legal authority to kill someone if the person is an imminent threat to life.  When these statutes passed around 2004 we were told it would be the Wild West, people would walk around armed to the hilt and pick fights just to kill other people.  Never happened, and even the Zimmerman-Martin case was never prosecuted nor defended as a "SYG" case.  
tl;dr?  We aren't the Wild Wild West of here, but we do have more than our fair share of violent people who, by the way, are violent with or without guns.

Quote
Would you give shotguns to 12-year boys so they can protect themselves of each others? They have the right, don't they? oh perhaps they aren't mature enough... what do we do with people over 21 that are not mature enough? Some people with more than 50 years will never mature anyway...

That's just a terrible posit.  No, we teach our children that we resolve disputes with discourse or, if necessary, a good ass-beating. Again, never on the offensive, only on the defensive.  I fired my first gun when I was 8: my grandfather had me shoot a .22 rifle that my dad shot when he was my age.  As with anything, while our children are under our tutelage, we instruct them of the correct ways to interact with people, to handle themselves, and to handle dangerous objects.  At some stage there is little we can do other than influence their behavior and they have to take on the responsibility for their own actions.  You're right: some people in their 50s aren't mature, but we do not elect to impose restrictions on all people in their 50s for the fallacy that therefore ALL people in their 50s are immature or will be.

Quote
IMHO the world is better without violence and violence tools. Weapons should only be owned by armies and police. Of course you can kill people with a knife but many less, just like if you get mad you'll kill less people with a knife than with a bazooka.

Oh stop.  Bazooka, again?

Quote
Anyway European countries sell anti-personal mines and weapons to other countries so it's not so pink here.

But if you think everyone should have the right to own weapons you should agree every country deserves having nuclear weapons to bomb your cities.

Now you're just being intellectually dishonest.  My prior presentation clearly stated that we may exercise our rights and freedoms so long as they do not impose upon others', and the latter is subject to limitations.

It's probably a good idea you stay over in your country.  If you were to ever come here, I'm likely to lure you into my home and shoot you with my nuclear bazooka.  FFS.

To recognize for a moment the people who will gladly give up their rights and freedoms to protect others, first you do not understand a thing I have said already, and secondly that you would do so gives you no right nor power to impose the same unto me or others who would not.  I am happy that, in your opinions, you would give up your sovereignty for the safety of others.  I hold onto my sovereignty because I am not a threat to others, and if I ever become one I will face the repercussions.

All of this notwithstanding, guns exist.  Weaponry exists.  Always has and always will because there are no angels amongst men.  So long as our civil society persists, we have no reason to turn those arms on each other and those who do are punished (well, not so much under our current administration.)  To paraphrase my homosexual friends, "We're here, we're armed, get used to it."
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 17, 2013, 11:36:12 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;750342
According to MADD, 27 people are killed by drunk drivers every day.  According to NBC, 30 people are killed by guns every day.

What do?

Confirmation bias?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on October 17, 2013, 11:46:07 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;750346
If you read what I said, I pretty clearly point to government as a problem.  I cannot speak for our government as for the past 100 years our government has represented us less and less.  As for your outrageous scenario with tanks and bazookas, again, we have the right to bear arms, but the freedom of what arms we may choose is limited.  Napalm?  That's easy enough to make so, sure, I can have that.  But I cannot use it.  Grenades?  Sure, but I cannot use them without repercussions.  Tank?  Sure, but impractical and the average citizen would not be able to arm it.  Bazooka?  Pretty certain that's limited.



(citation needed)



Again, (citation needed).  My grandfather was a hunter and the first thing he taught me about guns was what they could do to a person and how we never want that to happen.



Again, the vast majority of those killings are perpetrated by people who have obtained the guns illegally or illegitimately, and even more noteworthy is how all but one of the mass murders in the past decade and a-half have been committed in gun-free zones.



I read your first point several times, and I still cannot make sense of it.  Sure, I can post on Craigslist and invite you to my home and rape, torture, and kill you.  We can kill someone who enters our home and is a threat, but there is no slaughterhouse here.  Recently the big anti-gun culture target was the Florida "Stand Your Ground" law, which gives someone a legal authority to kill someone if the person is an imminent threat to life.  When these statutes passed around 2004 we were told it would be the Wild West, people would walk around armed to the hilt and pick fights just to kill other people.  Never happened, and even the Zimmerman-Martin case was never prosecuted nor defended as a "SYG" case.  
tl;dr?  We aren't the Wild Wild West of here, but we do have more than our fair share of violent people who, by the way, are violent with or without guns.



That's just a terrible posit.  No, we teach our children that we resolve disputes with discourse or, if necessary, a good ass-beating. Again, never on the offensive, only on the defensive.  I fired my first gun when I was 8: my grandfather had me shoot a .22 rifle that my dad shot when he was my age.  As with anything, while our children are under our tutelage, we instruct them of the correct ways to interact with people, to handle themselves, and to handle dangerous objects.  At some stage there is little we can do other than influence their behavior and they have to take on the responsibility for their own actions.  You're right: some people in their 50s aren't mature, but we do not elect to impose restrictions on all people in their 50s for the fallacy that therefore ALL people in their 50s are immature or will be.



Oh stop.  Bazooka, again?



Now you're just being intellectually dishonest.  My prior presentation clearly stated that we may exercise our rights and freedoms so long as they do not impose upon others', and the latter is subject to limitations.

It's probably a good idea you stay over in your country.  If you were to ever come here, I'm likely to lure you into my home and shoot you with my nuclear bazooka.  FFS.

To recognize for a moment the people who will gladly give up their rights and freedoms to protect others, first you do not understand a thing I have said already, and secondly that you would do so gives you no right nor power to impose the same unto me or others who would not.  I am happy that, in your opinions, you would give up your sovereignty for the safety of others.  I hold onto my sovereignty because I am not a threat to others, and if I ever become one I will face the repercussions.

All of this notwithstanding, guns exist.  Weaponry exists.  Always has and always will because there are no angels amongst men.  So long as our civil society persists, we have no reason to turn those arms on each other and those who do are punished (well, not so much under our current administration.)  To paraphrase my homosexual friends, "We're here, we're armed, get used to it."


I do not understand that last part of the sentence "my homosexual friends". Are you saying all these people who have posted here are homosexual just because they do not like violence or gun? If I do not like violence, or see people dispute matters through violence or shooting each other....does that mean I am sissy, or love having sex with men? Please do not imply that if a man hates violence or do not like having weapons around means he is homosexual.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 18, 2013, 12:19:35 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750349
Confirmation bias?

Intentionally.  And your bias is just as good as mine.

In any case, I said my piece, and I think it has resonated with several people here, for better or worse.  I have nothing more to say so long as all I have to respond to are dramatic hyperbole and spit-balls.

My first point: the difference between "rights" and "freedoms."  I made the mistake of responding to the snarky "gun culture" derision you made, falsely making the intrinsic link between rights and freedoms and our penchant for gun ownership and that one cannot be discussed in the absence of the other.

My second point: in our country and our culture our right to live is supplemented by our right to defend ourselves with arms.

My last point: things are different in your country.  Good, enjoy it.  I don't begrudge you your culture, and I expect that you don't begrudge me mine.  No one I know will ever come to your country and push anything on you, or take anything away from you, to which you might object.  Don't do the same to me.  (Governments aside, I have no control over that.)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 18, 2013, 12:21:41 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;750350
I do not understand that last part of the sentence "my homosexual friends". Are you saying all these people who have posted here are homosexual just because they do not like violence or gun? If I do not like violence, or see people dispute matters through violence or shooting each other....does that mean I am sissy, or love having sex with men? Please do not imply that if a man hates violence or do not like having weapons around means he is homosexual.

YES.  You figured me out!  If you don't own guns, then you're a homo!

*sigh*  If anything, I equated gun owners to queers.  The slogan is, "We're here.  We're queer.  Get used to it."  You are free to draw your own inferences,  erroneous or otherwise.

But thanks for the laugh.  And another spit-ball.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: nicholas on October 18, 2013, 12:22:53 AM
In the UK we have the right to free healthcare but not gun ownership.
In the USA they have the right to own guns but not healthcare.

I know which right I prefer.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 12:59:29 AM
Quote from: nicholas;750353
In the UK we have the right to free healthcare but not gun ownership.
In the USA they have the right to own guns but not healthcare.

I know which right I prefer.

Horribly twisted convolution, but LoadWB really *is* articulating it the_way_it_is.

BTW: Your own "health care" is a choice that you and you alone make. You have the freedom to chose to lead an unhealthy lifestyle: eat, drink, smoke and inject whatever you want, ignore and be ignorant of consequences, not exercise, etc., so why do you expect others to pay for your crummy lifelong habits and choices? The irresponsible way that you chose to conduct your life is and should NOT be a "right" by any stretch of the imagination, when trying to suck others into your worthlessness. Unless of course, you blame somebody other than yourself for everything that has ever gone wrong in your so-called life.

Above outline is yet another immature, selfish and entitled mentality. One that is plaguing *our* nation right now. Facts are facts. Funny how so many today are choosing to ignore them. Perhaps "healthcare" wouldn't be such an issue or thrust upon all of us, if people would get their heads out of their asses and re-learn a thing or two. Such as what to eat. How to prepare foods, etc.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: LoadWB on October 18, 2013, 01:06:39 AM
Quote from: nicholas;750353
In the UK we have the right to free healthcare but not gun ownership.
In the USA they have the right to own guns but not healthcare.

I know which right I prefer.

Damn, trolled me into it.  FYI, everyone in the US gets health CARE.  Just not private health INSURANCE because the insurance companies have to amortize the costs of care for individuals which are not in optimal health.  Group coverage, however, is different, and thanks to the "Liberal Lion" of the senate and his friends back in the 60s, the primary way to obtain group coverage is through an employer, though some families have incorporated or formed organizations which allow them to purchase group coverage irrespective of health conditions of individual members as the risk is spread more broadly.

Under the new "Affordable Health Care" law, however, that has changed.  I received notice from my insurance provider that the policy I've had for over a decade is no longer allowed under the law.  I have a non-group policy which is provided to me as I am self-employed.  I pay under $500 a month for essentially 100% coverage -- I pay $10 to see a doctor (some first visits are actually free,) $15 for urgent care, $50 for emergency room visits, $15 for specialist visits.  I haven't had to pay for a single test, and in the past few years I've had several MRIs as we attempt to discover the source of a condition I suffer.  My medicines cost as low as $2 and no more than $50.  It's a great plan.

Thanks to the ACA, my provider is no longer allowed to provide this plan to me, or small families who have formed organizations for small group coverage.  My new premium will indeed be lower, but only by a couple hundred dollars and I do not qualify for subsidies (someone else pays part or all of the premium) as I'm self-employed.  My deductible will be just over $5,000.  After that it would cover 80%.  In the end my out-of-pocket costs will increase.

Everyone has heard stories about how someone was denied treatment in the US because they lacked insurance.  That hasn't happened for decades, until now.  Hospitals and doctors are now requiring that patients pay their deductibles up-front or they get to wait or get turned away altogether.


As for your comment about the UK having free health care, I sent that in a text to my cousin living in England.  Her response is "Bollox!"
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: agami on October 18, 2013, 01:49:00 AM
Thanks to everyone who participated in this extensive discussion and by your actions proving CJ wrong.

Turns out that we, the members of the Amiga.org forum, are a diverse bunch of individuals after all, and are capable of having conversations not related to the Amiga. And we have no issue discussing these topics on an Amiga forum website without fear of the sky falling or the world ending.

As for the 2nd amendment fanboys, to all of us outsiders y'all are nuts. No offence. Even for many of us that have lived amongst you, we still think your anti gun-control fervour is unreasonable. In Australia we have tight gun controls that you would no doubt consider an invasion of personal freedom, but it makes for a much safer and more liveable society. No man is an island.

I actually enjoy weaponry, I was in the armed forces (national service in Yugoslavia) and I enjoy handling and firing handguns and rifles. That's what gun clubs are for, I don't need these things in my home.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 02:28:34 AM
Quote from: agami;750358
I actually enjoy weaponry, I was in the armed forces (national service in Yugoslavia) and I enjoy handling and firing handguns and rifles. That's what gun clubs are for, I don't need these things in my home.

Until someone armed (or not) and illegally enters your home and... tried to rob, rape and...

Pick up a nearby lamp and beat them to death? Baseball bat? Sorry... Cricket paddle... lmao

God given right is to be able to defend yourself. Plain and simple. Don't grasp that concept? Yeah... you're the one I feel sorry for.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Retro_71 on October 18, 2013, 02:43:04 AM
I really wasn't going to say anything BUT i am so sick of people saying things from pure ignorance yes ignorance, If all your anti gun rhetoric comes from the anti gun media then i would say before you open your mouth about the evils of weapons actually go to a gun club and try it out. firearms are not evil nor are they good they are a tool like everything else we make. the point that in Australia more people die from knives then guns seems to have been overlooked, or for that matter vehicles.

Yes i am a LEGAL gun owner and in Australia that means i have been checked by the police till the cows come home, have done and passed my safety test, applied and have gotten permission for every firearm i own and have met the requirement to keep said firearms. (in case you don't know then here is a brief outline). Firearms are to be keep inside the safe at all times, empty and with the bolt out, bolt and ammunition not to be stored with the firearm but in their own separate lock box/safe. (in other words in piece, it would be quicker to use my various knives or bow for a home invasion, not to mention that hanging over my head there is a 10 year + $50000 jail term if i so much as do the wrong thing with my firearms...).

I am just sick of know it all's that always say they hate or disagree with something when they have never bothered to research both sides.

In Australia we have a big feral's problems and hunters are the best form of pest control unlike traps or poisons we choose what to hunt and not trap or kill anything that walks by. In fact most if not all hunter are more worried and trying to do things for the environment then the so called greenies. If you have been out to the bush you would know just how much our native wildlife is getting hammered by foxes, cats, wild dogs, rabbit etc etc....

But anyway the only thing i disagree with American gun laws is that you should be made to keep things in safes.. BTW the police do random checks on me to make sure i keep everything properly just in chase you people think i am some kind of psycho for owning firearms in Australia.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: agami on October 18, 2013, 02:52:03 AM
Quote from: save2600;750359
Until someone armed (or not) and illegally enters your home and... tried to rob, rape and...

Pick up a nearby lamp and beat them to death? Baseball bat? Sorry... Cricket paddle... lmao

God given right is to be able to defend yourself. Plain and simple. Don't grasp that concept? Yeah... you're the one I feel sorry for.


Yes, I have the natural instinct and the, hmm what's the best word to use here... choice, to defend myself, i.e. Fight or flight.

Unfortunately, in Australia, if I used any of the bludgeoning weapons you mentioned, which I surely could do to much effect since I am a large semi-muscular man and I do have a putter in my study, I could end up in more trouble and doing more jail time than the assailant.

We are not to take the law into our own hands; Someone enters your home uninvited, get out and call the police from a mobile or a neighbour's phone.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 02:52:09 AM
Quote from: Retro_71;750360
BTW the police do random checks on me to make sure i keep everything properly just in chase you people think i am some kind of psycho for owning firearms in Australia.

Wow. Random "checks"? That's exactly what Nazi's and the Gestapo did.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 03:05:06 AM
Quote from: agami;750361
Yes, I have the natural instinct and the, hmm what's the best word to use here... choice, to defend myself, i.e. Fight or flight.

Unfortunately, in Australia, if I used any of the bludgeoning weapons you mentioned, which I surely could do to much effect since I am a large semi-muscular man and I do have a putter in my study, I could end up in more trouble and doing more jail time than the assailant.

We are not to take the law into our own hands; Someone enters your home uninvited, get out and call the police from a mobile or a neighbour's phone.

You totally and utterly just made our case. It's exactly what happens when you have a liberal grubment. Say goodbye to common sense. Logic. Reasoning. Independent thought.

So you cannot "legally" protect what you've acquired, built and worked for all your life? %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! that. You call that living?

Funny choice of words here. You say 'unfortunately' in regards to Aussie law, yet you're defending an anti-gun stance. Pretty sure, no make that ABSOLUTELY sure, that most citizens if armed, would squash any adversity that arises during the times when they (those that choose to feel dis-enfranshised) choose to act in a less than civilized way in order to get what they want.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Retro_71 on October 18, 2013, 03:11:33 AM
Quote from: save2600;750362
Wow. Random "checks"? That's exactly what Nazi's and the Gestapo did.


Unfortunately the vast majority of people in Australia have been brainwashed into thinking LEGAL gun owners are like the CRIMINAL gun owners and hence forth the checks that the police do because as everyone know we adults can't do anything for ourselves...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Megamig on October 18, 2013, 03:17:26 AM
So does that make butch dykes who love guns straight? People who buy into stereotypes should quit!

As for US gun laws you don't need several guns that can fire 100+ rounds to protect you, your family and property. Balance is the key and the number of mass killings would be greatly reduced if citizens were restricted by the number and the type of guns they owned
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Retro_71 on October 18, 2013, 03:28:23 AM
Quote from: agami;750361
We are not to take the law into our own hands; Someone enters your home uninvited, get out and call the police from a mobile or a neighbour's phone.

Running away sounds nice and if that person was after you or you can't run then what?

Actually you are allowed to defend yourself BUT it comes down to reasonable force (the same rules applied when i was a bouncer use just enough force to get the job done), that is why no gun owner in Australia would use a gun, remember it is in piece and would be much quicker to grab a knife.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: fishy_fiz on October 18, 2013, 03:43:37 AM
Per capita there's more deaths by guns in places where guns are easily accessible (US topping the charts).
Do people not see the connection there?  :)
It may be a persons right to defend themselves, but why must it be guns? This attitude (and almost reflex response of "its our right to defend ourselves" when questioned) is obviously quite dangerous. Its not like nations who arent so quick to bare firearms dont also have a right to defend themselves. They do. They just dont put themselves in a kill or be killed situation so quickly. The notion that guns = defense is ludicrous if most people have them.

Simple equation. Stop people having unneccessary guns, there's less people using them.

And backtracking a little, but of course you can defend yourself and your belongings in Australia, but it all comes down to reasonable force (if violence is involved). You do what you need/have to do, without going over the top,.. like using a gun on someone for trying to steal your tv and xbox360 (as a random example). Yes, a thief is far from a stand-up citizen, but shooting someone is a far worse crime.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 18, 2013, 03:52:49 AM
Quote from: Retro_71;750364
Unfortunately the vast majority of people in Australia have been brainwashed into thinking LEGAL gun owners are like the CRIMINAL gun owners and hence forth the checks that the police do because as everyone know we adults can't do anything for ourselves...

Guns are not a part of Australian identity. I think most Australians believe guns are unneccessary in suburbia. I am one of them. But i think most people in Australia know there are guns needed for use in the outback for culling. You sir are out of place.

BTW did you see the bushfires? Last night i saw the clouds glowing orange because of the fires. Lots of smoke too.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 03:55:42 AM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;750371
Simple equation. Stop people having unneccessary guns, there's less people using them.

Wrong.

Wow - starting to sound like a broken record here.

Again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again.

...LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!   !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 18, 2013, 04:03:38 AM
Quote from: Megamig;750365
So does that make butch dykes who love guns straight? People who buy into stereotypes should quit!

The problem i have with stereotypes in that they are often true. People will always be quick to slam you for using them completely ignoring the fact they are true which is dumb. For example:

Stereotype: Asian teenage girls can't drive.
Fact*: Asian teenage girls can't drive.

I hate political correctness. For me it has become a really ugly word.

*I speak from my personal experience of trying to teach my teenage asian girlfriend and her friends how to drive.

Edit: for the sake of being diplomatic and TMHG when i say stereotypes i am referring to generalisations in general.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Retro_71 on October 18, 2013, 04:05:34 AM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;750371
Per capita there's more deaths by guns in places where guns are easily accessible (US topping the charts).
Do people not see the connection there?  :)
It may be a persons right to defend themselves, but why must it be guns? This attitude (and almost reflex response of "its our right to defend ourselves" when questioned) is obviously quite dangerous. Its not like nations who arent so quick to bare firearms dont also have a right to defend themselves. They do. They just dont put themselves in a kill or be killed situation so quickly. The notion that guns = defense is ludicrous if most people have them.

Simple equation. Stop people having unneccessary guns, there's less people using them.


Does that include Australia? i think not although the process takes a long time and there is lots of red tape it is not that hard to own a firearm in Australia IF you have a clean record. So is gun death the top death, NO it is Knife wounds and then beatings (In Australia)

As i said earlier I think that in the US gun's should be unloaded and kept in safes like here is Australia. That would stop most kids from touching guns without anyone knowing.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Retro_71 on October 18, 2013, 04:12:29 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750372
Guns are not a part of Australian identity. I think most Australians believe guns are unneccessary in suburbia. I am one of them. But i think most people in Australia know there are guns needed for use in the outback for culling. You sir are out of place.

BTW did you see the bushfires? Last night i saw the clouds glowing orange because of the fires. Lots of smoke too.

Actually it was long ago BUT the powers that be started changing people minds on that.
BTW Bushrangers anyone??? (our wild west was just as wild as America's)
As for suburbia there are plenty of gun club to practice.
I have seen those fire and smoke.. bad!!! i was there..
Have you seen rabbits and foxes lately? i have and that was just outside Parramatta (one fox got run over) about 20km from the CDB there are pests everywhere it would be naive to think pest animals are only in the bush, also farmer rely on hunters to get rid of there pest species since as much as they want they have no time and if they use poisons and or traps some of there own livestock and native animals would also get caught.

If i am out of place i thank God for that, better to be out of place then just another sheep. Also did you know those greens want to take away fishing??
Probably in 20 years time i will be having this discussions but about fishing God forbid that i have a fishing Rod, reel and some lures then!!!
Also i live far away from the water and or fishing spots so is my fishing gear unnecessary too?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: fishy_fiz on October 18, 2013, 04:28:58 AM
Nah, Australia doesnt have many deaths by guns (in no small part due to the gun laws).

Again though, its simple logic, and stats back it up.
Give people easy access to guns, and there's more crimes committed with them.
It doesnt matter if "law abiding citizens" are the problem or not. The fact that theyre so accessible is the issue. Those same, much touted freedoms also apply to "bad guys" (yes I know there's restrictions in place for known criminals, but thats only a fraction of the criminals out there, not to mention more guns means more easily accessible illegal guns), which inspires "Upstanding Citizen" to also buy a gun. Before you know it things are gun vs. gun, so everyone is on a level, but pretty extreme playing field, making the playing field much more dangerous than in places where guns arent so common.

If my house was to be broken into while home, Id much rather there be no guns involved.

It's "funny". In my country I also have the freedom to have a firearm if I should choose to, yet Id never consider it, even for defense. When so few people have them it doesnt have the "me too" ripple effect.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 18, 2013, 04:29:14 AM
Quote from: save2600;750373
Wrong.

Wow - starting to sound like a broken record here.

Again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and - again and again - and again - and again - and again - and again - and again.

...LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!   !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !

I'm sorry but i still don't understand why you need guns in the first place :confused:

They are completely unneccessary in suburbia. If America really does need guns in suburbia then it must be a really screwed up country.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: desiv on October 18, 2013, 04:41:42 AM
Quote from: save2600;750359
Until someone armed (or not) and illegally enters your home and... tried to rob, rape and... .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMtZfW2z9dw

:rofl:

desiv
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 04:57:16 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750379
I'm sorry but i still don't understand why you need guns in the first place :confused:

They are completely unneccessary in suburbia. If America really does need guns in suburbia then it must be a really screwed up country.

Yes, America *has* turned into a screwed up country, but not for the reasons we're discussing here (gun ownership). Lots of flawed ideologies, where do-gooders thrust their values onto everyone else with a 'one size fits all' mentality. Completely ignoring facts, changing facts to suit their vision of utopia or completely rewriting history in order to further the agenda.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 18, 2013, 05:13:33 AM
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 05:32:50 AM
Wow, gotta love modern "computing". The picking and choosing that is A.org. A three paragraph rebuke in line #129 - poof!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 18, 2013, 05:42:20 AM
Quote from: save2600;750384
Wow, gotta love modern "computing". The picking and choosing. The flaws. And especially this site's idiotic and unnecessary flaws.

Your response is actually typical. I have had this reaction from several  American gunlovers. They get hot tempered and aggressive when you fail  to share their opinion on why guns are OK. This is part of the reason  guns and America scare the crap out of me.

In my entire life i  have never felt the need or desire to own a gun. Any threatening  situation i have ever been in or can imagine being in i have been able  to resolve effectively without the use of a gun. I am now going to go  into a gun shop and buy a gun so i can "defend myself". Can someone  explain this logic to me because i am really confused.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: save2600 on October 18, 2013, 05:56:41 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750385
Your response is actually typical. I have had this reaction from several  American gunlovers. They get hot tempered and aggressive when you fail  to share their opinion on why guns are OK. This is part of the reason  guns and America scare the crap out of me.

In my entire life i  have never felt the need or desire to own a gun. Any threatening  situation i have ever been in or can imagine being in i have been able  to resolve effectively without the use of a gun. I am now going to go  into a gun shop and buy a gun so i can "defend myself". Can someone  explain this logic to me because i am really confused.


Waaaaaaaaaay too much time wasted here, but Kesa... in order to satisfy your confused state - try living here for a while. And NOT as a worthless piece of %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! with nothing to lose. Try as you might, in getting "ahead"... only to have it all taken away in a moments flash, thanks to criminals or worse.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: stefcep2 on October 18, 2013, 07:32:00 AM
I live in Australia and the the absurd arguments Pro-Gun Americans make never ceases to amaze.

"The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"-  Yeah after he has killed about two dozen school kids, well done for "stopping him" from killing three dozen...

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Yeah try and kill said two dozen kids with a knife in about 15 minutes...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: stefcep2 on October 18, 2013, 07:35:16 AM
Quote from: save2600;750373
Wrong.

...LAW ABIDING CITIZENS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!!   !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !!  !


Not per se, but law abiding citizens who also happen to be nutjobs just waiting to explode with easy access to guns and ammo are a big, big problem..
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Thorham on October 18, 2013, 08:34:27 AM
Quote from: stefcep2;750390
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people". Yeah try and kill said two dozen kids with a knife in about 15 minutes...

It's still true. Guns don't fire themselves :p That said, I don't think allowing every whack job to own a gun is a very good idea.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: gertsy on October 18, 2013, 08:42:57 AM
Therein lies the problem. Every human is a potential Whack Job. I'd prefer Whack Jobs to have a stick or a knife rather then a sub-machine gun.
Can we close this thread already.....?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: stefcep2 on October 18, 2013, 08:55:17 AM
Quote from: LoadWB;750300
Honestly, I don't think I included enough information.  I tried to pare it down some to give simple comparison and illustrations.



I know I'm not going to change your mind because its obvious to me that your argument is simply about justifying why you want guns, but..
.

Quote

Where does this term "gun culture" come from?  The question isn't so much about "need."  We all have our basic "needs" which provide our survival.  We also have our individual "wants" or "likes," and one of those happens to be guns.  It could be anything, really.  Guns are hobbies and for most people a responsible way of life.  The fact that so many in our society abuse guns does not in any way give power to have them taken away from those who use them responsibly and for the right reasons.  In the hands of the right people a gun is effective for self-defense.  The "anti-gun culture" plasters the rest of the 10% all over the place for its own purposes, completely ignoring the reality and statistics.


 You can't be serious: using statistics to defend a pro-gun view?  C'mon, how many school kids do you guys need to be slaughtered by some nut job with access to high powered and semi-auto guns and masses of ammo? Compare the stats on such crimes where gun laws are much tougher..

Quote

Again, though, the gun debate completely detracts from the fundamentals.  If one answers the question of, "Why should people not own guns" with, "Because they are dangerous and can kill people," then the same question can easily be applied to anything on the slippery-slope leading to the point of many things suddenly being defined as dangerous and therefore needing prohibition or severe regulation.


No. No it can't.  The big, big difference is the scale, and the speed with which carnage can ensue due to easy access to guns and the few options that you have to stop the killing once its underway.  A driver in a car can kill, but they won't go on a killing spree, repeatedly killing victims with the same car in the same way.  

Quote

Gun ownership is a question of personal property rights.  I own guns because I enjoy the skill involved in shooting, and because I am trained to use them effectively, and by corollary to NOT use them when appropriate.  The thinking is the same as a martial art: the idea is to know when to use it for proper defense, never for offense, and never to gain attention.  Should I have my guns taken from me because my neighbor abuses his, or rather more accurately statistically abuses one he has acquired illegitimately?  Should I have my kitchen knives over eight inches long be taken away because the man down the street used a similar item to kill someone?


Owning a gun is a privilege not a right.  Just like driving a car. Its a controlled piece of property, because if misused it has the potential to inflict great harm on others.

Quote

In terms of personal property, I have a finite time on this Earth.  I spend that time earning a living performing jobs for other people.  Those people compensate me as an exchange for the time I have provided to them from my finite supply.  I then use that compensation to obtain products for myself, some to keep and some to consume.  The property I keep, or wealth I accumulate, becomes a tangible incarnation of the expenditure of my life.  Therefore, my property IS my life, and illegitimately taking away my property is tantamount to taking away my life.


See, in my part of the world rightly or wrongly one American stereotype is of a life dedicated to consumerism.

Saying that your property is your life I find sad.  Sorry but I do.  My son graduated from high school last night.  It was wonderful feeling watching all 6'4'' of him all-suited up walk up and accept his certificate with a firm handshake from his principal, when once his entire hand wrapped across my little finger...accumulating material objects as a life purpose to me sounds like such a waste.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: ZeBeeDee on October 18, 2013, 09:35:44 AM
Meanwhile, in other news today ...

Thread derailed and hijacked by the pro :uzi: and anti gun :mickeymouse: lobbists

Mods seem unwilling to intervene to steer the thread back on course - lack of potential bans  and beer :pint: attributed to be the reason why

We'll have more on this, and other stories in our main news programme later tonight.


And now the weather ...
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 18, 2013, 10:42:04 AM
Right. Let's get back to the topic of
:angryfire::angryfire: WHAT JOHN DID :angryfire::angryfire:
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: takemehomegrandma on October 18, 2013, 10:46:55 AM
A thread that was completely derailed by concept from the very first post (initiated by a *moderator*), is now completely FUBAR.

And still running...

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: persia on October 18, 2013, 11:24:06 AM
(http://9thcivic.com/gallery/albums/post/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk.gif)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: paul1981 on October 18, 2013, 05:51:53 PM
Quote from: gertsy;750397
Therein lies the problem. Every human is a potential Whack Job. I'd prefer Whack Jobs to have a stick or a knife rather then a sub-machine gun.
Can we close this thread already.....?


+1
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: odin on October 19, 2013, 12:07:15 AM
Can't someone get creative and insert a crusty old sock into this thread?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: agami on October 19, 2013, 01:28:32 AM
Quote from: persia;750421
(http://9thcivic.com/gallery/albums/post/dude_eating_popcorn_hg_blk.gif)


Did that guy just spit popcorn out of his mouth and offer it to me?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Dr. Chef on October 19, 2013, 01:53:54 AM
Quote from: agami;750467
Did that guy just spit popcorn out of his mouth and offer it to me?
I believe he was kissing it.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Megamig on October 19, 2013, 02:16:53 AM
Lets just say it is all Obama's fault.. Including the banning of members on here.

 That seem to be the Republicans response to everything!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 19, 2013, 02:25:10 AM
I don't understand what you mean by "Obama's fault" and "Republicans response". Maybe you could explain it to us non Americans here instead of just assuming we should already know.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 19, 2013, 02:59:43 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750473
I don't understand what you mean by "Obama's fault" and "Republicans response". Maybe you could explain it to us non Americans here instead of just assuming we should already know.

It's pretty self-explanatory (right-wingers laying the blame for basically everything at his feet, even things that occured years before he was elected or for which he has no control over, etc.). Jenna Marbles can explain it better:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkQxHlr2fXM
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Terminills on October 19, 2013, 03:00:33 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750473
I don't understand what you mean by "Obama's fault" and "Republicans response". Maybe you could explain it to us non Americans here instead of just assuming we should already know.


He's just making a dumbass remark.  

Democrats say Republicans have the blame obama syndrome... Just like Republicans said democrats had bush derangement syndrome.


This image says it all.


http://i.imgur.com/LgscdTS.jpg
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 19, 2013, 03:35:14 AM
Quote from: Terminills;750478
He's just making a dumbass remark.  

Democrats say Republicans have the blame obama syndrome... Just like Republicans said democrats had bush derangement syndrome.


This image says it all.


http://i.imgur.com/LgscdTS.jpg

Actually no. Because the mentality of Americans is so different from the rest of the world I find American politics confusing. Not just politics though - basically everything America is confusing to me.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: desiv on October 19, 2013, 03:53:35 AM
Quote from: Kesa;750481
Actually no. Because the mentality of Americans is so different from the rest of the world I find American politics confusing. Not just politics though - basically everything America is confusing to me.


Possibly because you seem to think that all Americans have the same mentality..
(And you think the rest of the world all has the same, but different from America, mentality???)
That's a bad starting point if you're trying to understand anything...
:(

desiv
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Ami_GFX on October 19, 2013, 04:09:02 AM
Ok, I've had enough. I'm joining Piru. This is supposed to be about Amigas.  Goodbye.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 19, 2013, 05:11:53 AM
Quote from: desiv;750482
Possibly because you seem to think that all Americans have the same mentality..
(And you think the rest of the world all has the same, but different from America, mentality???)
That's a bad starting point if you're trying to understand anything...
:(

desiv

Can't reply yet. Eating.

Quote from: Ami_GFX;750483
Ok, I've had enough. I'm joining Piru. This is supposed to be about Amigas.  Goodbye.

I actually think that's a good idea. While i am happy to continue this interesting thread it should really go to the coffee house.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: mrmoonlight on October 19, 2013, 07:10:21 AM
Quote from: Ami_GFX;750483
Ok, I've had enough. I'm joining Piru. This is supposed to be about Amigas. Goodbye.
  I Don't blame you ,as I am utterly confused to what the hell is going on ,I do hope no new thinking of joining us Amiga youngsters are reading this garbage that's dominating the the Amiga Forum ,very best wishes Brian.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Linde on October 19, 2013, 09:34:36 AM
Quote from: desiv;750482
Possibly because you seem to think that all Americans have the same mentality..
(And you think the rest of the world all has the same, but different from America, mentality???)
That's a bad starting point if you're trying to understand anything...
:(

desiv


But, but... stereotypes often turn out to be TRUE (based on Kesa's observations, even though they're generalizations of billions of people). Are you sure you're not just trying to be "politically correct" (whatever that means) just to spite Kesa?
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kesa on October 19, 2013, 12:20:20 PM
Anyway i started a thread in the Coffee House that continues this discussion if anyone is interested. Seeing the mods won't do it i will do it for them.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=750507#post750507
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: ZeBeeDee on October 19, 2013, 02:49:20 PM
Quote from: Kesa;750508
Anyway i started a thread in the Coffee House that continues this discussion if anyone is interested. Seeing the mods won't do it i will do it for them.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=750507#post750507


Ooooooo ban Kesa for even mentioning that the mods don't do anything lol

:laughing:
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: persia on October 20, 2013, 04:22:41 AM
This thread presents a compelling reason to sell this site to the Spanish Lesbians.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SimonV on October 20, 2013, 12:20:01 PM
Did someone mention spanish lesbians ? Time to log in again !
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: ChrisUnionNJ on October 20, 2013, 01:45:07 PM
Oh why bother!!!!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: whabang on October 20, 2013, 02:15:11 PM
Meh, it's just the good ol' .org - political debates used to be quite frequent around here ten years ago. No reason to start whining about them now. :)
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: commodorejohn on October 20, 2013, 07:52:02 PM
Just want to say thanks to everybody for their show of support here. Well, before it turned into a gun-control debate, anyway. You guys are the best :)

Quote from: Linde;749975
What exactly did you ban him for?
The heinous act that was apparently the tipping point was that after J-Golden made his "no more Mr. Nice Guy" speech, I sent him a politely-worded PM clarifying my stance (re: threads showing up in New Posts not being the same as having to go looking for them because New Posts is core forum functionality) and assuring that I had said my piece in the thread at issue and wasn't "not letting up" as he thought.

So I guess the moral of the story is, whatever you do, don't clarify misunderstandings, don't try to de-escalate conflict/make peace, don't be polite, and don't be private where it's appropriate. Apparently you get banned for that sort of thing. And made an example of in your very own dedicated thread.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: SpeedGeek on October 20, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;750610
Just want to say thanks to everybody for their show of support here. Well, before it turned into a gun-control debate, anyway. You guys are the best :)

Kesa got bored with the original topic and switched it to gun control! :argue:

Quote
The heinous act that was apparently the tipping point was that after J-Golden made his "no more Mr. Nice Guy" speech, I sent him a politely-worded PM clarifying my stance (re: threads showing up in New Posts not being the same as having to go looking for them because New Posts is core forum functionality) and assuring that I had said my piece in the thread at issue and wasn't "not letting up" as he thought.

So I guess the moral of the story is, whatever you do, don't clarify misunderstandings, don't try to de-escalate conflict/make peace, don't be polite, and don't be private where it's appropriate. Apparently you get banned for that sort of thing. And made an example of in your very own dedicated thread.
Short translation = don't be a smart-ass! :razz:
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: koaftder on October 20, 2013, 08:28:21 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;750610

So I guess the moral of the story is, whatever you do, don't clarify misunderstandings, don't try to de-escalate conflict/make peace, don't be polite, and don't be private where it's appropriate.


Oh. I figured the moral of the story would be something like, "Don't be a jackass and get banned for starting off topic crap/troll threads in sub forums." Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: commodorejohn on October 20, 2013, 08:41:12 PM
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Boot_WB on October 20, 2013, 08:51:31 PM
@CommodoreJohn

Welcome back dude.
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: Kronos on October 20, 2013, 08:53:20 PM
Quote from: koaftder;750612
Oh. I figured the moral of the story would be something like, "Don't be a jackass and get banned for starting off topic crap/troll threads in sub forums." Thanks for clarifying.


Nah, that wins you a moderator badge !!
Title: Re: Yup, I just banned him...
Post by: foleyjo on October 20, 2013, 10:59:58 PM
Right c-johns back so maybe we could start talking about Amiga's again