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Author Topic: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1  (Read 30665 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2014, 06:02:15 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771649
illegally patching somebody else's work and redistributing a reverse-engineered version of intuition


Excuse me? I do not see anything illegal about what Cosmos is doing, which from what I have seen, is to reverse engineer, do his changes and distribute patches, so that others can apply his patches to their originals. That is not the same as distributing reverse-engineered version of intuition.

Other than that, I am fully with Buzz, in the open source world things are _much_ easier, suggesting that it isn't just displays a whole deal of ignorance and backwards attitudes.
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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2014, 06:29:58 PM »
Quote from: kolla;771665
Excuse me? I do not see anything illegal about what Cosmos is doing, which from what I have seen, is to reverse engineer, do his changes and distribute patches, so that others can apply his patches to their originals. That is not the same as distributing reverse-engineered version of intuition.

I think he did a great job of patching & updating TLSFMem, and I will swear by that program. Good stuff! :D
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
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guest11527

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2014, 07:24:28 PM »
Quote from: kolla;771665
Excuse me? I do not see anything illegal about what Cosmos is doing.

Oh, so he does hold a license on intuition? I do not think so, but if you know better, let me know.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2014, 07:46:56 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771671
Oh, so he does hold a license on intuition? I do not think so, but if you know better, let me know.


so far i see he only distributes patches to the intuition and the other libraries, which i think is legal, since he doesnt provide download to the binaries themselves, isnt it? sources are not open but that doesnt mean you must not rework reverse  engineered asm  guess.

now, i think it would of course be more productive if he provided bug report and you had fixed the bug yourself (if confirmed) in the next update.

on the other hand im not very found of cosmos tone of voice i must admit, especially when being polite might result in actual cooperation.
 

guest11527

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2014, 07:53:20 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;771676
so far i see he only distributes patches to the intuition and the other libraries, which i think is legal, since he doesnt provide download to the binaries themselves, isnt it?

I would believe you are right if these are only patches. I don't even ask where owners of any other model than the one the patch depends on take the ROM file from, but that's probably not my problem anyhow.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2014, 08:18:32 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771677
I would believe you are right if these are only patches. I don't even ask where owners of any other model than the one the patch depends on take the ROM file from, but that's probably not my problem anyhow.


i have downloaded the intuition and exec library archives here:
http://leblogdecosmos.blogspot.fr/p/coding.html

and the lhas contain *.pch files. i did not try to apply them but it looks positively like patches.

what concerns where the rom files are coming from there are rom and remus utilities to assemble and disassemble regular rom images from your hardware kickstart. thats how it is done too, i have done it myself on my my main a4000 system. the number of module versions contained in hardware kickstarts is rather limited even if sometimes hardware specific, so you only need few versions of patches. it was handled like this in all official and inofficial but though not illegal patches and "boing balls" for amiga system, you can collect from internet. could not find anything to nitpick on myself.
 

guest11527

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2014, 08:41:53 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;771679
it was handled like this in all official and inofficial but though not illegal patches and "boing balls" for amiga system, you can collect from internet. could not find anything to nitpick on myself.

Not for the BoingBags I contributed to, I ensure you. The stuff there was compiled/assembled from official sources. Which is also a considerably more robust approach.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2014, 09:13:08 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771682
Not for the BoingBags I contributed to, I ensure you. The stuff there was compiled/assembled from official sources. Which is also a considerably more robust approach.


i trust you, but since the sources of amiga kickstarts and system libraries are not open we are left with no alternatives as to refrain to patches to keep it legal. its been some time since i fiddled with my a4k setup and, i must say, come up with a very stable improved custom kickstart including power windows functionality, so i dont remember what patches exactly i have applied, still afair the main ones were already included in doobrey's romsplit/remus archives.

i can assure you i have properly read out the roms of my a4k to create that kickstart if you insist;). of course i would prefer all that annoying hackery was unnecessary, the code was open and there was no necessity to reinvent the wheel from the scratch, just to keep it going like in case of aros, but alas it is not the case. i dont think the fans, customers and (be it bedroom) coders are to blame for this situation. on the contrary, from my observations the community behaves sometimes even over-loyal in comparison to rather limited support it can count on from various sources and for various reasons.
 

Offline kolla

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2014, 10:25:12 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771671
Oh, so he does hold a license on intuition? I do not think so, but if you know better, let me know.


Apparently I do know better, didn't you read my entire post? Distributing binary patches is perfectly legal and has been done since the dawn of AmigaOS.
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Offline kickstart

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2014, 10:43:41 PM »
Anothertime some people talking about illegal things on the amiga world, this people is really stupid... the actal amiga "community" is like a stupid chat of people acting like imaginary CEOS of imaginary companies, inventing projects from nothing and selling just vapor...

Cosmos try to fix some libraries and is criticized... people is stupid.
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Offline psxphill

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2014, 12:48:37 AM »
Quote from: kickstart;771692
Cosmos try to fix some libraries and is criticized... people is stupid.

If you can't handle criticism with dignity then you should avoid the internet. He criticises people and expects them to take it, but criticise him and he launches an attack.

I am not a lawyer but some countries reverse engineering laws might make his patches illegal. Not that I care.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/you_can_catch_more_flies_with_honey_than_with_vinegar
 
 
Quote from: Cosmos;771216
Coders are a bit special, it's like that : me too I'm special... It's just a fact : it's impossible to talk and trade with coders from my experience... They (hum... we) live on an "another planet" ! lol !!
 
 You can overcome your narcissism if you want. You only live on another planet because you chose to.
 
Quote from: Cosmos;771216
I have some secret goals with them, I cannot explain because Amiga have a lot of and powerfull ennemies...
 
 Paranoia is treatable too.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 01:00:29 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline kolla

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2014, 01:09:34 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;771698
I am not a lawyer but some countries reverse engineering laws might make his patches illegal.


Which countries do you have in mind?
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Offline kickstart

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2014, 01:56:53 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;771698
I am not a lawyer but some countries reverse engineering laws might make his patches illegal. Not that I care.


Really you are worried about the laws of patch intuition.library? you are ironic about that.

PS: The wikipedia link is crap.
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Offline TheMagicM

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #57 on: August 25, 2014, 02:37:48 AM »
Good job Cosmos.  I'm with ya on this one.
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Offline Madshib

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #58 on: August 25, 2014, 03:45:20 AM »
Keep up the good work Cosmos. We need more people working on 3.x and it seems you have done a great job! We should all be thanking you....

Maybe someday 3.x will become open source so it can be developed by the community like it should be at this point...
 

Offline TheMagicM

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Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #59 from previous page: August 25, 2014, 03:48:17 AM »
Quote from: Madshib;771704
Keep up the good work Cosmos. We need more people working on 3.x and it seems you have done a great job! We should all be thanking you....

Maybe someday 3.x will become open source so it can be developed by the community like it should be at this point...


What if it was released as open source...  I wonder how much better WB 3.x can actually get.
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