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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: patrik on August 27, 2004, 09:34:31 AM

Title: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: patrik on August 27, 2004, 09:34:31 AM
This (http://people.freenet.de/ray.tscc/wolf3d.htm) Atari-port of Wolfenstein3D claims up to 15fps on a plain Atari ST. Now if someone just could port it to the Amiga ;=). An A500 should be able to do as much or more compared to a plain Atari ST.


/Patrik
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Brian on August 27, 2004, 10:45:56 AM
Although it's an ok game I would much rather see Duke3D ported.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: HotRod on August 27, 2004, 11:13:44 AM
It *is* ported.

http://neoscientists.org/~dante/

A PPC-version comes with the AOS 4 Pre-release as well.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: zipper on August 27, 2004, 12:11:22 PM
And Wolf3D has been in Aminet, no idea where to find it now.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Karlos on August 27, 2004, 12:45:26 PM
There sure was some nice hardware bashy stuff on that site :-)

The blitter accelerated goraud triangles was interesting ;-)
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: itix on August 27, 2004, 12:58:46 PM
http://sdl.innoidea.hu/

There is Wolfenstein 3D for MorphOS. Runs approximately 1000fps and should be easy to port to classic Amiga (it is SDL version).
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: patrik on August 27, 2004, 01:22:11 PM
@zipper:

Yeah, there is already a port of Wolfenstein3D for the Amiga, but that port rather does 15fps on a 50MHz 060 compared to the 15fps on a 8MHz 680000 that Atari-port does.


/Patrik
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Karlos on August 27, 2004, 02:52:44 PM
@patrik

An 680000, eh? :-) No wonder it only needs to be 8MHz ;-)

/hides...

Seriosuly though. A texturemapped game running at 15fps on a 68000 based system is quite an achievement.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: bloodline on August 27, 2004, 03:13:26 PM
Quote

Karlos wrote:
@patrik

An 680000, eh? :-) No wonder it only needs to be 8MHz ;-)

/hides...

Seriosuly though. A texturemapped game running at 15fps on a 68000 based system is quite an achievement.


The Amiga Port was OS friendly... and the ST probably has chunky graphics. The ST also has more CPU time available, where games like Wolfenstein don't need clever graphics chipsets.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Karlos on August 27, 2004, 03:21:48 PM
@bloodline

Quote
and the ST probably has chunky graphics


Not according to the author. The C2P algorithms he used are discussed on the site along with the rendering techniques and just about everything else. The port was designed to work on *any* 16-bit 68000 atari, the oldest of which all used planar graphics (IIRC).

True it was a hardware bashing port, but that isn't the point.

An A500 with genuine fast ram should be able to accomplish a similar task if written in a similar way.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: bloodline on August 27, 2004, 03:29:02 PM
Quote

Karlos wrote:
@bloodline

Quote
and the ST probably has chunky graphics


Not according to the author. The C2P algorithms he used are discussed on the site along with the rendering techniques and just about everything else. The port was designed to work on *any* 16-bit 68000 atari, the oldest of which all used planar graphics (IIRC).

True it was a hardware bashing port, but that isn't the point.

An A500 with genuine fast ram should be able to accomplish a similar task if written in a similar way.


Hmmm, well that's good and only 13 years too late!
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Karlos on August 27, 2004, 03:33:29 PM
:lol:, where's your sense of nostalgia? :-D


An A500 port is now required lest another Atari v Amiga war kicks off ;-)
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: patrik on August 27, 2004, 03:36:04 PM
@bloodline:

The Atari ST uses planar graphics and has an 8MHz 68000 while the Amiga has a ~7MHz 68000(0? ;))... which equals to being 12.5% lower clocked. The A500 can also pull some extra tricks using its blitter which the ST lacks.

Btw, the Wolfenstein3D-port that exists for the Amiga is _extremely_ slow. More advanced ports, like the Doom-ports runs multiple times faster.


/Patrik
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: bloodline on August 27, 2004, 03:38:10 PM
Quote

Karlos wrote:
:lol:, where's your sense of nostalgia? :-D


An A500 port is now required lest another Atari v Amiga war kicks off ;-)


Well what are you waiting for? A written request from the Queen? ;-)
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Karlos on August 27, 2004, 03:41:34 PM
Alas, my metal bashing days are long, long gone. Plus, I don't have an A500, either :-(

Damn. That sucks, I should do something about it ;-)
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: bloodline on August 27, 2004, 03:43:19 PM
Quote

Karlos wrote:
Alas, my metal bashing days are long, long gone. Plus, I don't have an A500, either :-(

Damn. That sucks, I should do something about it ;-)


I have an A500, but I certainly wouldn't want to develop on it... Real men use UAE :-D
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on August 27, 2004, 03:57:38 PM
Quote
years ago i was totally convinced that even an 8Mhz 68000 must have enough power to process an orthogonal 3d world like the one of wolf3d as the original pc game ran on an 80286 cpu with less power than the mc68000 provided (fx. the 80286 didn't provide any 32Bit operations like the 68000 alredy does).
This was on my mind too for a long time
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: drHirudo on August 27, 2004, 05:10:42 PM
There is Wolfenstein3D port for the AppleIIGS (http://www.gno.org/pub/apple2/gs.specific/games/arcade/wolf3D/), which runs only on 2.8MHz.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: amigamad on August 27, 2004, 05:20:15 PM
doomaster should give it ago he has an atari st a520 st runs at 8mhz a bit faster than an a500 formula 1 grand prix is a  bit faster on an st .
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Holley on August 27, 2004, 05:35:10 PM
The original Wolfenstein was playable under PC Task on my '040/25 :-)
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Wibbly on August 27, 2004, 07:03:11 PM
Quote

An A500 port is now required lest another Atari v Amiga war kicks off


What's your point? I miss those days

Embarrasingly I changed sides. I started with an Atari ST, and bashed Amigans all the time. Then a friend showed me his A500 playing a piece of music and formatting a disk at the same time, and I was wooed by multitasking.
Then he bought Shadow of The Beast, and it had graphics better than anything I'd ever seen on my ST, and music with sounds sampled off a Korg M1 (slightly easier on the ear than a Yamaha YM2149) and I realised my Atari was a horrible pile of old poop and bought me an A500  :-D (at which point I started bashing ST users ::blush:: At least I came to my senses in the end ) :lol:
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: blobrana on August 27, 2004, 07:34:18 PM
Hum,
i`m just half way through Doom 3 (recruit), and it reminds me a lot of AB3-TKG...



[color=336699]
[/color]
Not as good or fast as Q3 though...
[color=336699]
[/color]
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on August 27, 2004, 08:51:41 PM
Quote

drHirudo wrote:
There is Wolfenstein3D port for the AppleIIGS (http://www.gno.org/pub/apple2/gs.specific/games/arcade/wolf3D/), which runs only on 2.8MHz.


I've actually played that version!  All in all it's a pretty good port.  But you really couldn't run it on a stock IIgs.  You really needed an accelerator...

In fact I'm not sure if it will run without one...

It's been such a long time!  Maybe I'll break out my IIgs just to find out.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: HopperJF on August 27, 2004, 08:53:44 PM
You see I would download that for my ST.. but the thing is neither Mac or Windoze XP can format 720k DOS disks anymore meaning its practically impossible for me to put the thing on some floppies  :-(
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: BloatedOtter on August 27, 2004, 08:57:01 PM
Incidentally, a ZX Spectrum port of Wolfenstein 3D has just been released at a Russian demoparty. Go Speccy!
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=13204
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Holley on August 27, 2004, 09:01:37 PM
That is so cool!

Now how about a C64 port ...
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on August 27, 2004, 10:14:06 PM
Quote

HopperJF wrote:
You see I would download that for my ST.. but the thing is neither Mac or Windoze XP can format 720k DOS disks anymore meaning its practically impossible for me to put the thing on some floppies  :-(


Are you sure?  I don't have any 1.0MB 3.5" floppies ATM (well, ones that I wouldn't mind formatting).  I'm pretty sure you can still format one to 720k under XP though.  You might have to use the command line "format" command and specify /F:720 for it to work.

[Edit]Just scrounged up an old DS/DD 3.5" disk and had no problems formatting it using the command line (even w/o the /F switch).  The GUI tool however does restrict you to 1.44MB disks[/Edit]
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: TjLaZer on August 27, 2004, 10:49:41 PM
What all is needed to get this to work?  A WAD file or anything???  How big is the file?  I could try this on my Falcon030 it has a HD, but my 1040ST does not so I may not be able to get this to run from a Floppy Disk.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Holley on August 27, 2004, 11:37:38 PM
Including the original executable the full version will go onto a 1.44Mb floppy, but I transferred it to my Miggy on 2x 720K floppies.  I think I had to compress the data file though (this was about 4 years back) - I may have even used a disk spanning Zip file to do it :-?.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Argus on August 28, 2004, 01:45:23 AM
I remember playing the Wolf3D Amiga port on my A3000 back in the day when it was on a CU Amiga or AF CD.  It was pretty nippy on the 68040.  Don't know if it was playable on the base 68000 cpu and I think it might need the ECS chipset (SuperDenise). I do remember of all the Doom-like games, it's the one that seemed to give me a headache if I played it more than a half-hour.  Maybe if I can find it again I'll try it out on the A500(T).
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: BloatedOtter on August 29, 2004, 12:43:40 AM
TjLaZer: the Wold3d port for the ST is only 140k at the moment, so it shouldn't be a problem for you to try it on your 1040 ST. You don't need anything else that's not included in the archive, but bear in mind it's rather a technology demo than a proper game at the moment: all you can do is wander in a single level with no baddies to kill.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Holley on August 29, 2004, 01:19:55 AM
Ahh, it'll hit a wall (in performance) with enemies around!  I distinctly remember slowdown under PC Task, for some reason mostly when the blue guys with machine guns turned up :-?
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: TjLaZer on August 29, 2004, 01:46:15 AM
OK i tried it and it works great.  It runs on the 1040STE and Falcon030.  All you can do is run in the maze and nothing else.  Would be nice to have a working game that uses the PC data files. :)
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: shoggoth on November 23, 2005, 09:19:28 AM
The dude has actually made a fully playable version now:
Check it out at http://ray.atari.org

It should definitely be possible to make a playable Amiga version of this game..

-- Shoggoth
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Cyberus on November 24, 2005, 12:45:48 AM
WTG in digging up the thread!

Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: _ThEcRoW on November 24, 2005, 01:18:34 AM
A version for the 500 would be definitely cool!!!!!!!!
Anyone taking the token?
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: mr_a500 on November 24, 2005, 01:25:28 AM
Years ago I searched long and hard for a good Wolfenstein Amiga port that was actually playable on my A500. I was surprised (and annoyed) that the Wolfenstein ports were about 20x slower than the DOOM port ADoom. I was about to give up ever playing Wolfenstein on my A500 when I found WolfenDOOM:

http://amiwfd.ap3x.de/

These are DOOM wads designed to be similar to the original Wolfenstein levels.

I'd still like to see a super high-speed Wolfenstein port (although I'm not holding my breath), but meanwhile WolfenDOOM is good enough. :-)
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: HopperJF on November 24, 2005, 01:35:53 AM
Quote

ShadesOfGrey wrote:
Quote

HopperJF wrote:
You see I would download that for my ST.. but the thing is neither Mac or Windoze XP can format 720k DOS disks anymore meaning its practically impossible for me to put the thing on some floppies  :-(


Are you sure?  I don't have any 1.0MB 3.5" floppies ATM (well, ones that I wouldn't mind formatting).  I'm pretty sure you can still format one to 720k under XP though.  You might have to use the command line "format" command and specify /F:720 for it to work.

[Edit]Just scrounged up an old DS/DD 3.5" disk and had no problems formatting it using the command line (even w/o the /F switch).  The GUI tool however does restrict you to 1.44MB disks[/Edit]


That will be where I was going wrong then, thank you  :-D
PS.. the PC is not mine  :lol:
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Argus on November 24, 2005, 01:49:27 AM
First off, unless there's a newer version I'm unaware of, Ray's Wofenstein AtariST port is pretty limited.  It is a recompile of the AppleIIgs game.  You can't shoot back, can't do anything more than run around the first level. What is more, you need a 4MB ST to make it run, iirc.  No doubt it can be improved upon.  Heck, didn't Citadel show that a Wolfie clone would work on a stock A500?
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: _ThEcRoW on November 24, 2005, 02:13:00 AM
Is the source code available in his web?
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: patrik on November 24, 2005, 02:19:23 AM
@Argus:

He released a new, playable version nov the 19th which requires 2MB ram and you can shoot and be shot at.


/Patrik
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Tomas on November 24, 2005, 03:12:14 AM
Quote

Brian wrote:
Although it's an ok game I would much rather see Duke3D ported.

He was talking about a port that would run on the a500..

The interesting part about this atari port, is that it ran nearly full speed on a AtariST, which no one thought was possible.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on November 24, 2005, 05:17:34 AM
Quote

HopperJF wrote:

That will be where I was going wrong then, thank you  :-D
PS.. the PC is not mine  :lol:


I'm glad you can appreciate the tip over a year later! :lol:

On the odd ocassion, 'PCs' can be useful...  :roll:
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Panthro on November 24, 2005, 08:12:26 AM
Quote

Holley wrote:
That is so cool!

Now how about a C64 port ...



forget the C64
forget the Vic20

my Z80 is the BOMB!!!! :lol:
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: dylansmrjo on November 24, 2005, 09:02:35 AM
Quote

Panthro wrote:

forget the C64
forget the Vic20

my Z80 is the BOMB!!!! :lol:


Uuhhh.. I'd like to see Quake3 on that one  :lol:
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: manicx on November 24, 2005, 11:24:53 AM
Quote

Argus wrote:
First off, unless there's a newer version I'm unaware of, Ray's Wofenstein AtariST port is pretty limited.  It is a recompile of the AppleIIgs game.  You can't shoot back, can't do anything more than run around the first level. What is more, you need a 4MB ST to make it run, iirc.  No doubt it can be improved upon.  Heck, didn't Citadel show that a Wolfie clone would work on a stock A500?


You are wrong here mate. Latest release is NOT pretty limited. You can shoot, you can choose levels, listen to sounds and music. It run fine on both a 2MB STE and 4MB STE. After all, expanding the RAM in STE to 4MBs is as difficult as washing your hands and costs as much as the soap.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Argus on November 24, 2005, 12:24:59 PM
@Patrik, Manicx

Oh, I see there is a new version (alpha only :().  Unfortunately the zip file is bigger than my floppy-gate 720K dd STE drive can handle so I'll have to download it with the STE (or upgrade to a hd floppy).  My original point was that it really *doesn't* run on a 'stock-ST', which an STE isn't.  If you can upgrade your ST to 2+MB and have later than TOS 1.2 it may work for you. I try and let you know if it runs on such spec. The STE is hardly a stock machine, with built-in blitter and 4MB 30-pin simms (which I'm afraid will still set you back a bit more than ordinary soap...though not by much ;)).
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: shoggoth on November 24, 2005, 02:09:18 PM
Dude, it does run on a "stock" ST. It just needs more than 2Mb of RAM.

-- Shoggoth
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: whabang on November 25, 2005, 07:38:03 PM
Wolf3D ran very well on my old 286, 6 MHz, with one meg of RAM.
The source is availible HERE (http://www.btinternet.com/~belowe/), so you coders out there: Start porting!!!
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Argus on November 26, 2005, 08:52:24 PM
Quote

shoggoth wrote:
Dude, it does run on a "stock" ST. It just needs more than 2Mb of RAM.


Yes, yes, yes, but 2MB is not stock now is it.  Anyway, it's a good port but not really such a big deal, unless you think back to if id Software had only ported it to ST and Amiga back in the day.  Things may have turned out a lot different for our favorite little keyboard computers. :-D
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Dr_Righteous on November 26, 2005, 10:18:09 PM
FYI Wolfenstein originated on the C64... Nearly a text-adventure game as I recall. A far cry from Wolf3D, but hey.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: adonay on November 26, 2005, 10:28:59 PM
What i would want to see is a working port Wolfenstein3d ATARI *jaguar* i dont bother with that daft old wolfenstein. I think porting the old Jaguar games would be a better option tho they would not run on a a500.

 the jaguar port (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_3D)

well its the same game but enhanced graphics it was stunning compared to the original tho


adonay :-D
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: TjLaZer on November 26, 2005, 10:41:54 PM
Well I tried this on my Mega ST4 and it did not work.  I have 4MB RAM and TOS 1.04.  Bummer.  It did run fine on STeem and kicks ass!  Good job.  We need one like this for Amiga.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: adonay on November 26, 2005, 11:00:36 PM
also verry interesting ------wolfgl (http://wolfgl.sourceforge.net/)
just a thought


adonay :-D
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: kedawa on November 26, 2005, 11:08:01 PM
A bit off topic, but here's a Doom port I never would have thought possible.

http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/doom/
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: mr_a500 on November 27, 2005, 12:15:46 AM
Quote
A bit off topic, but here's a Doom port I never would have thought possible.

http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/doom/


You missed the little note at the bottom:

"Note: This was an April Fool's Joke."
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: kedawa on November 27, 2005, 01:32:34 AM
Actually, there are a few other things that give it away (like how it's shaded), but I expected at least a few posts before someone noticed.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: Karlos on November 27, 2005, 01:47:54 AM
It is an old one.
Title: Re: Interesting Wolfenstein3D port
Post by: shoggoth on November 27, 2005, 10:19:39 PM
Try booting as clean as possible. I think Ray has used some tricks which may cause trouble with some system software (and some harddisk drivers too)

-- Shoggoth