Amiga.org
Operating System Specific Discussions => AROS Research Operating System => Topic started by: OlafS3 on August 08, 2013, 10:40:16 PM
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BSZili has thankfully taken over the task to port Magellan to AROS what will offer new chances. As a small thankyou we have created a small bounty for the port:
http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/66
Task is:
Port the main program, library, and modules
Fix endianness problems
Replace DOS packets with dos.library functions
Provide workarounds for or implement missing AROS functions where possible.
The sum is 150$. I have already donated 50$ and hope that others support it too. Thank you in advance.
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bump
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Personally I think a better bounty would be to add the missing parts to AROS and ZUNE needed to enable Ambient to compile as it's much better than Magellan.
http://morphosambient.sourceforge.net
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Personally I think a better bounty would be to add the missing parts to AROS and ZUNE needed to enable Ambient to compile as it's much better than Magellan.
http://morphosambient.sourceforge.net
the version on sourceforge is old (as far as I understand it) and heavily dependent on closed source parts. Magellan is really opensource and it is much easier to adapt. The old SAS version works perfectly on AROS 68k. And ask yourself why "Ambient" never was ported to AROS and expecially AmigaOS.
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Personally I think a better bounty would be to add the missing parts to AROS and ZUNE needed to enable Ambient to compile as it's much better than Magellan.
http://morphosambient.sourceforge.net
I personal do not know Ambient but at least the descriptions. Magellan is very configurable and has at least most if not all functionality so I do not see what advantage Ambient port (except much more work needed) would have.
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Personally I think a better bounty would be to add the missing parts to AROS and ZUNE needed to enable Ambient to compile as it's much better than Magellan.
http://morphosambient.sourceforge.net
Personally i think your totaly wrong! :) This is the way to go.
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Frew in a few $ for the cause :) Just saw that paypal has my old last name and to change it I have to do a photo copy of any kind of ID and send em :/ Well the donation will show my not curent name then ^^
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the version on sourceforge is old (as far as I understand it) and heavily dependent on closed source parts. Magellan is really opensource and it is much easier to adapt. The old SAS version works perfectly on AROS 68k. And ask yourself why "Ambient" never was ported to AROS and expecially AmigaOS.
Because AROS/ZUNE and Amiga OS/MUI3.8 are missing things that Ambient requires.
Last Update: 2013-04-09
http://sourceforge.net/projects/morphosambient/
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Personally i think your totaly wrong! :) This is the way to go.
Different strokes for different folks. :)
It will never replace Wanderer as the default on AROS x86 and i doubt it will replace Workbook as the default on AROS 68k either.
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Different strokes for different folks. :)
It will never replace Wanderer as the default on AROS x86 and i doubt it will replace Workbook as the default on AROS 68k either.
Do you want to make a bet with me? :-)
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Frew in a few $ for the cause :) Just saw that paypal has my old last name and to change it I have to do a photo copy of any kind of ID and send em :/ Well the donation will show my not curent name then ^^
My wife has the same problem with PayPal too.
Apparently a marriage certificate isn't enough proof! Lol
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Do you want to make a bet with me? :-)
It's GPL is it not?
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Because AROS/ZUNE and Amiga OS/MUI3.8 are missing things that Ambient requires.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/morphosambient/
I do not want to start a "political" discussion about MorphOS.
Look at the change-logs of MorphOS, lots of new classes and all closed source. And both Ambient and f.e. OWB depend on them. You know how long it already needs to update Zune to MUI3.8., now imagine AROS trying to compete with MorphOS on base of closed source components. We need real opensource components, and "real" means for me including all dependencies. That is not the case for Ambient and will never happen. I already said that the base functionality from both Ambient and Magellan is very similar (I cannot compare in detail because I do not own MorphOS). So from my side to try to port Ambient is a waste of time. In AROS camp there are limited resources so it should be concentrated on where it makes most sense.
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My wife has the same problem with PayPal too.
Apparently a marriage certificate isn't enough proof! Lol
Apparently not, damn me for taking her last name ;)
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all dependencies (LIBS, MUI-Classes) are opensource too? Yes or No?
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I do not want to start a "political" discussion about MorphOS.
Look at the change-logs of MorphOS, lots of new classes and all closed source. And both Ambient and f.e. OWB depend on them. You know how long it already needs to update Zune to MUI3.8., now imagine AROS trying to compete with MorphOS on base of closed source components. We need real opensource components, and "real" means for me including all dependencies. That is not the case for Ambient and will never happen. I already said that the base functionality from both Ambient and Magellan is very similar (I cannot compare in detail because I do not own MorphOS). So from my side to try to port Ambient is a waste of time. In AROS camp there are limited resources so it should be concentrated on where it makes most sense.
Might be a waste of time for you but you aren't a programmer.
The fact is there are parts of MUI4 and MorphOS that need to be cloned so that Ambient will compile on AROS.
You aren't privvy to every conversation nor development that goes on behind closed doors....
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It's GPL is it not?
"It will never replace Wanderer as the default on AROS x86 and i doubt it will replace Workbook as the default on AROS 68k either."
What do you mean with "GPL" here? It is under the same license as all AROS components (Poseidon and so on). If you mean replace Wanderer in nightly builds then No or replace Wanderer on distributions then yes. And people use distributions and not nightly builds.
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all dependencies (LIBS, MUI-Classes) are opensource too? Yes or No?
You know they aren't. They need to be cloned.
As I said, you aren't privvy to things others might be.
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"It will never replace Wanderer as the default on AROS x86 and i doubt it will replace Workbook as the default on AROS 68k either."
What do you mean with "GPL" here? It is under the same license as all AROS components (Poseidon and so on). If you mean replace Wanderer in nightly builds then No or replace Wanderer on distributions then yes. And people use distributions and not nightly builds.
Read my words again.
I said "AROS" not "a collection of software that includes some AROS components".
Anyway, I just checked the licence of Magellan and it's APL not GPL so in theory it could replace Wanderer as the default.
I still doubt it.
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Might be a waste of time for you but you aren't a programmer.
The fact is there are parts of MUI4 and MorphOS that need to be cloned so that Ambient will compile on AROS.
You aren't privvy to every conversation nor development that goes on behind closed doors....
I tried to discuss and was bashed for it. I am realistic and only use what is available. What someone discusses "behind closed doors" is nothing I (or anyone else) can include in a distribution. If the people who "talk behind closed doors" want that other people judge and support it they have to communicate it...
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I tried to discuss and was bashed for it. I am realistic and only use what is available. What someone discusses "behind closed doors" is nothing I (or anyone else) can include in a distribution. If the people who "talk behind closed doors" want that other people judge and support it they have to communicate it...
So don't try and speak with authority when you have none. ;)
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Read my words again.
I said "AROS" not "a collection of software that includes some AROS components".
Anyway, I just checked the licence of Magellan and it's APL not GPL so in theory it could replace Wanderer as the default.
I still doubt it.
Nightly builds No, AROS devs (what I saw) do not want any changes. Distribution maintainers can decide what they want.
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So don't try and speak with authority when you have none. ;)
And you have no authority to speak for distribution maintainers :D
I speak for myself but I got some feedback so I am pretty sure that the others (distribution maintainers) think similar. If Aros devs do not communicate people decide for themselves
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And you have no authority to speak for distribution maintainers :D
I didn't speak of any distribution, I only spoke of AROS.
I speak for myself but I got some feedback so I am pretty sure that the others (distribution maintainers) think similar. If Aros devs do not communicate people decide for themselves
I can't speak for the AROS core devs as I'm not one of them, but I can speak regarding my own private conversations with other developers regarding improving AROS/ZUNE to have the required functionality that enables it to run Ambient.
Hence my original statement:
Personally I think a better bounty would be to add the missing parts to AROS and ZUNE needed to enable Ambient to compile as it's much better than Magellan.
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peace, bros.
olaf is apparently investing a lot of time to configure magellan well as aros68k desktop. its his project, very much worth support as long as wnaderer isnt prime time ready. he wants other aros platforms to take advantage of his work. isnt that positive and noble;) ?
now, if someone else makes ambient available for aros, its another question, why not?
and whatever desktop is going to be used on aros, shouldnt that be a users choice? why quarrel upon it?
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Personally I think a better bounty would be to add the missing parts to AROS and ZUNE needed to enable Ambient to compile as it's much better than Magellan.
zune upgrade is en course since long, but progressing very slowly. you probably know.
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peace, bros.
olaf is apparently investing a lot of time to configure magellan well as aros68k desktop. its his project, very much worth support as long as wnaderer isnt prime time ready. he wants other aros platforms to take advantage of his work. isnt that positive and noble;) ?
now, if someone else makes ambient available for aros, its another question, why not?
and whatever desktop is going to be used on aros, shouldnt that be a users choice? why quarrel upon it?
No quarrel, I just think it was a language issue. I forget that English isn't everyone's first language quite often.
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I didn't speak of any distribution, I only spoke of AROS.
I can't speak for the AROS core devs as I'm not one of them, but I can speak regarding my own private conversations with other developers regarding improving AROS/ZUNE to have the required functionality that enables it to run Ambient.
Hence my original statement:
You have your opinion and I (and others theirs). I do not have to do what the "Aros devs" (or anyone else) wants. So please accept that others have different opinions. You are free to create a bounty for that and donate. If these devlopers of your "private conversations" are so interested it should have high priority then. Otherwise it is a private opinion that is as valid as mine with the difference that "my way" will lead to results in near future (after how long not updating Wanderer?).
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You have your opinion and I (and others theirs). I do not have to do what the "Aros devs" (or anyone else) wants. So please accept that others have different opinions. You are free to create a bounty for that and donate. If these devlopers of your "private conversations" are so interested it should have high priority then. Otherwise it is a private opinion that is as valid as mine with the difference that "my way" will lead to results in near future (after how long not updating Wanderer?).
I believe Kalamatee has updated Wanderer quite considerably but hasn't released his changes and might not release them at all due to becoming dissillusioned with AROS development (As I understand it anyway, I hope he has a change of heart).
Regardless, I still believe Ambient to be a better desktop than Workbench/Wanderer/Magellan after using it for several hours per day for the last two or three months.
Magellan might be a great fit for your distro and it's obviously better than Workbench (I had fully paid for registered copy myself back in the day) but I'd still prefer to see Ambient on AROS, even though it will never be in the core repo due to being GPL.
My reasoning is because the improvements needed to enable Ambient on AROS will provide a lot more to AROS than just a possible port of Ambient. It will improve the whole OS a great deal.
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zune upgrade is en course since long, but progressing very slowly. you probably know.
We need a wizard to conjure up magic spells for it. :)
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I believe Kalamatee has updated Wanderer quite considerably but hasn't released his changes and might not release them at all due to becoming dissillusioned with AROS development (As I understand it anyway, I hope he has a change of heart).
Regardless, I still believe Ambient to be a better desktop than Workbench/Wanderer/Magellan after using it for several hours per day for the last two or three months.
Magellan might be a great fit for your distro and it's obviously better than Workbench (I had fully paid for registered copy myself back in the day) but I'd still prefer to see Ambient on AROS, even though it will never be in the core repo due to being GPL.
My reasoning is because the improvements needed to enable Ambient on AROS will provide a lot more to AROS than just a possible port of Ambient. It will improve the whole OS a great deal.
I am not against it (expecially against the Zune Update) and if you find a wizard we would all hail you :) but i do not believe it.
If there would be really a ambient port it would be possible to have both as option and configured. As long as this not happens I look at the reality and try to get the best that is possible. Besides "Ambient" is MorphOS and thus as alien to Aros as Magellan. The only real "Aros" option would be a heavily updated Wanderer but there I have not much hope. Even if there is a updated Wanderer somewhere, as long as it is not official it is not existing. When something new is real I would look on it and there is no reason not to support it.
Besides Magellan versus Ambient, the basic functions (file types...) are the same or at least similar. Ambient is (how I understand it) a configured environment (what is also possible with Magellan). The other difference is that it is based on MUI4, if that is a advantage or not is a matter of taste. Magellan has a lot of options for configuration too.
There must be reasons why the Magellan bounty was even supported my MorphOS users wishing to have it on their platform. And MorphOS developers are involved in porting.
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I am not against it (expecially against the Zune Update) and if you find a wizard we would all hail you :) but i do not believe it.
If there would be really a ambient port it would be possible to have both as option and configured. As long as this not happens I look at the reality and try to get the best that is possible. Besides "Ambient" is MorphOS and thus as alien to Aros as Magellan. The only real "Aros" option would be a heavily updated Wanderer but there I have not much hope. Even if there is a updated Wanderer somewhere, as long as it is not official it is not existing. When something new is real I would look on it and there is no reason not to support it.
Besides Magellan versus Ambient, the basic functions (file types...) are the same or at least similar. Ambient is (how I understand it) a configured environment (what is also possible with Magellan). The other difference is that it is based on MUI4, if that is a advantage or not is a matter of taste. Magellan has a lot of options for configuration too.
Ambient uses MUI/ZUNE, Magellan does not.
A port of Ambeint improves the whole of AROS and gives access to even more software in the long run, a port of Magellan just gives a a nicer desktop to those that want it in the short term.
Both nice things to have, but I know which end result I prefer.
Which is the whole point of my original statement.
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Ambient uses MUI/ZUNE, Magellan does not.
A port of Ambeint improves the whole of AROS and gives access to even more software in the long run, a port of Magellan just gives a a nicer desktop to those that want it in the short term.
Both nice things to have, but I know which end result I prefer.
Which is the whole point of my original statement.
We can all have wishes, but we not always get them
If there is something real that I can boot and look at I will test it. As long as there is only "talk" it is not important to me. I have heard lots of things "behind the scenes" that are only halvfinished or not existing at all. People cannot use "talks" or "wishes" but only real components.
perhaps you get both at the end, who knows. But Magellan will be available in near future, Ambient would be a longterm project.
I hope I did not sound too harsh but now AROS gets a better desktop and then people pop up who have clear views (Magellan is bad, Wanderer is better) and when asking admit that they never used Magellan. And you start to say you would wish Ambient and sound like Kalamatee on aros-exec. That many people underestimate AROS (it is a great OS) and claim "it has not developed over the last ten years" has much to do with annoying Bugs not solved and Wanderer not updated. I would like to become AROS more popular and Magellan offers at least a sophisticated desktop.
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We can all have wishes, but we not always get them
If there is something real that I can boot and look at I will test it. As long as there is only "talk" it is not important to me. I have heard lots of things "behind the scenes" that are only halvfinished or not existing at all. People cannot use "talks" or "wishes" but only real components.
perhaps you get both at the end, who knows. But Magellan will be available in near future, Ambient would be a longterm project.
I hope I did not sound too harsh but now AROS gets a better desktop and then people pop up who have clear views (Magellan is bad, Wanderer is better) and when asking admit that they never used Magellan. And you start to say you would wish Ambient and sound like Kalamatee on aros-exec. That many people underestimate AROS (it is a great OS) and claim "it has not developed over the last ten years" has much to do with annoying Bugs not solved and Wanderer not updated. I would like to become AROS more popular and Magellan offers at least a sophisticated desktop.
Well at least you are doing something. Actions speak louder than words! ;)
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Well at least you are doing something. Actions speak louder than words! ;)
thanx :-)
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Well at least you are doing something. Actions speak louder than words! ;)
+1 :)
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+1 :)
+1 thanx :-)
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A port of Ambeint improves the whole of AROS and gives access to even more software in the long run, a port of Magellan just gives a a nicer desktop to those that want it in the short term.
Besides Magellan versus Ambient, the basic functions (file types...) are the same or at least similar. Ambient is (how I understand it) a configured environment (what is also possible with Magellan). The other difference is that it is based on MUI4, if that is a advantage or not is a matter of taste. Magellan has a lot of options for configuration too.
In fact Magellan has way more features and is more powerful than Ambient. Ambient has cloned some features from Magellan, but nowhere near everything and many times cut down solutions. Magellan is just older design visually (gui toolkit) than more modern Ambient (MUI4), but it still excels in feature wise. I'm still using Magellan for serious file management etc rather than Ambient on MorphOS.
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In fact Magellan has way more features and is more powerful than Ambient. Ambient has cloned some features from Magellan, but nowhere near everything and many times cut down solutions. Magellan is just older design visually (gui toolkit) than more modern Ambient (MUI4), but it still excels in feature wise. I'm still using Magellan for serious file management etc rather than Ambient on MorphOS.
By feature count Magellan is better yeah, but I still think cloning the MorphOS/MUI4 features missing to implement Ambient on AROS is a more worthwhile goal due to it improving the OS as a whole.
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By feature count Magellan is better yeah, but I still think cloning the MorphOS/MUI4 features missing to implement Ambient on AROS is a more worthwhile goal due to it improving the OS as a whole.
I vote for both, on the shortrun have a better desktop with Magellan and in future (whenever) have ambient and MUI4 (what would be nice) and the user decides which desktop he/she prefers
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I vote for both, on the shortrun have a better desktop with Magellan and in future (whenever) have ambient and MUI4 (what would be nice) and the user decides which desktop he/she prefers
:)