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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: XDelusion on March 02, 2013, 07:52:47 PM
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I am starting this tread just to get some feed back on game difficulty preferences.
I understand there are some people who enjoy a game that they can just sit down and relax with, something that will challenge them, but not at the expense of wanting to throw the controller or mouse through the screen.
Then there are others who grew up with the Atari 2600 and NES who prefer a game that is extensively difficult, but once you learn the map, enemy placement, and so forth, you are able through memorization and skill, to complete the map eventually.
Granted there are also other elements that make a game hard aside of the life and death factor, like puzzles, platforming, back tacking/exploring, and the like which should also be considered.
So if you all will, please share with me what to you makes for a good game and to what degree you like your difficulty and so forth.
Thank you!
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With respect to difficulty, I like a game that starts off fairly easy and without a large learning curve. Later levels/stages should be quite difficult and there should be a save game feature (or code entry) so that you don't always have to start at the beginning!
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For me, a feeling.
A game that brings emotion of any sense stays with me. Of course the game has to grab me in the first place to do that so (back to childish mode) - Robots or guns, or Robots with guns :)
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With me It's an experience that you can take away with you. Most gamer these days are graphics whores who solely depend on amazing graphics no matter how crap the game actually is. I'm a sucker for a great story. Non of this cgi stuff mind.
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If it has zombies in it, it's a good game :D
and...
A game that gets you coming back to it time and time again. Doesn't have to be graphically or sonically superior to any other game - it has to be *playable*. And playable because of good programiing - good collision detection, accurate controls...and a game that gets the mind working...
Games like Sensitive on the Commodore 64. Games like Lemmings on the Amiga. Games like Tetris on the Gameboy.
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I like a game that has an appealing background story and some open-endedness. Not too much story, and no ushering of the player through the game. Phantasy Star series on Sega are good games in this way.
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What Makes a Good Game?!
Being fun.
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Being fun.
Ya, but your game isn't fun.
JOKING!!! :)
You know I love it!!!
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Ya, but your game isn't fun.
JOKING!!! :)
You know I love it!!!
You only love it because it has multiple types of Zombies :)
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Actually 'being fun' is the conclusion i have come to recently too.
Im working on a game for ouya and pandora atm.
I think implementing old ideas and mechanics in a fresh way is a good idea.
for example, a helicopter game with a weighty feel to the helicopter as opposed to floaty. Interesting use of camera., new ideas or spins on old ones. And i think NEVER piss the player off.
If a game is rock hard then it needs to be truly awesome like ninja gaiden on the xbox was. Tough bastard but worth it.
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This is a good question. But there are few universal answers. It largely depends on the type of the game.
Are we talking 3D shooters here ?
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This is a good question. But there are few universal answers. It largely depends on the type of the game.
Are we talking 3D shooters here ?
3D shooters aren't games :D
I can honestly say I have never played any 3D shooter that I have enjoyed. In fact, I find them downright boring. Maybe this is a bit of a melodramatic broad comment...but "they are all the same game with different graphics"!
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Money and people!
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This is a good question. But there are few universal answers. It largely depends on the type of the game.
Are we talking 3D shooters here ?
It is a broad question, and I wanted broad answers. :)
And yes, I am just kind of getting a feel from the community what their tastes are...
...in relation to my AB3D FPS.
Good news though, I have discovered a way to do motion comics and tell a story within the Odamex engine, now to find animators... ;)
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I would say its the "immersion" experience. When a game is good you totally forget about the outside world.
Feeling of accomplishment when you finish a level or a zone is also great.
Feeling of having full control on your character. This is the worst with 3D shooters, when there is an explosion you feel like your character has parkinson disease and that pisses me off. Also the damn never ending movie-like scenes where you only watch and can't do nothing.
On a different style, why is Angry Birds so popular? Its a challenge to make all the blocks fall and there is numerous ways to achieve it. It has funny characters with funny noises and its for kids as well as adults, guys or gals.
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I'd say it really depends on the type of game. (although being fun is ofcourse the first requirement) For example, I like it when '3d games' give me plenty of freedom to do things my way (gta, elder scrolls, hitman etc) while for say, a driving game, proper simulation and a wide range of cars is more important.
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I would say its the "immersion" experience. When a game is good you totally forget about the outside world.
Feeling of accomplishment when you finish a level or a zone is also great.
Feeling of having full control on your character. This is the worst with 3D shooters, when there is an explosion you feel like your character has parkinson disease and that pisses me off. Also the damn never ending movie-like scenes where you only watch and can't do nothing.
On a different style, why is Angry Birds so popular? Its a challenge to make all the blocks fall and there is numerous ways to achieve it. It has funny characters with funny noises and its for kids as well as adults, guys or gals.
Noted: I am looking for a way to skip the story in my project should the player desire to do so.
As for Angry Birds... I have no idea why it is so huge. Maybe because even people with no gaming skills can play it and feel like they are a good player?! :)
Just to show you how far the Angry Bird flu has spread...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQ2hBdMt40
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As for Angry Birds... I have no idea why it is so huge. Maybe because even people with no gaming skills can play it and feel like they are a good player?! :)
Just to show you how far the Angry Bird flu has spread...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQ2hBdMt40
Sad thing about these "mobile" games is they could have existed (or did) 20 years ago on Amiga but now suddendly they are considered good games because you can play them on your phone.
As for skills since you mention it I consider myself an average skilled video games player but if I get killed right away 3 times in a row while trying a new game then its over, I won't go back to it ever. There is a lot of games on the market so if I can't have fun right away, its rejected :)
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To me the two main indicators of a good game is if it plays well and it is fun.
By plays well I mean the controls actually work. So many times I have played a game that should be a great blast to play but the controls let it down too much. And fun is pretty self explanatory :lol:
Thing is for me graphics don't factor into how much I would enjoy a game. A game could be visually bland or even dated in terms of technical aspects. A game can be difficult too and it wouldn't bother me. So long as the game is fun to me then I couldn't give a hoot lol.
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Sad thing about these "mobile" games is they could have existed (or did) 20 years ago on Amiga but now suddendly they are considered good games because you can play them on your phone.
As for skills since you mention it I consider myself an average skilled video games player but if I get killed right away 3 times in a row while trying a new game then its over, I won't go back to it ever. There is a lot of games on the market so if I can't have fun right away, its rejected :)
I'll be sure to ease players into the game play then in the first level or two, but by level three I'm going to turn up the heat...
...but with a little exploration, players will find items to help balance out the difficulty.
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On a platform game the first thing that has to be right is the controls, the way the character moves in response to the joystick. Responsiveness plus the right amount of inertia to make it feel "solid" and it can be fun enough just to run and jump around.
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On a platform game the first thing that has to be right is the controls, the way the character moves in response to the joystick. Responsiveness plus the right amount of inertia to make it feel "solid" and it can be fun enough just to run and jump around.
And what are your thoughts on Platforming in First Person? :)
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It is a broad question, and I wanted broad answers. :)
And yes, I am just kind of getting a feel from the community what their tastes are...
...in relation to my AB3D FPS.
I've been following your work, and, needless to say, I am a great fan :)
Now, let me try to help as much as I can...
First, a couple of broad answers :)
Every game needs the "right amount of levels". Well, except those which have no levels :crazy: You can't make, like, four levels, and then leave the player disappointed. Nor can you make 256 levels, and make everyone die of boredom somewhere around level 173. First AB3D is the example of perfection in that regard. Just make a well rounded game, and then, if you have more ideas, add them with a mission pack, or as a slightly updated sequel.
Then, you need to have some memorable stuff ! It can be anything really. Like some immortal tunes we are still humming some 100 years later. But not everyone is talented and music making can be kinda tough. Still, it could be a really cool sound effect. Record yourself or a friend for a really scary/funny monster effect. Invent a really unique/original weapon. Make it ultra powerful and fun to use, but make it ultra scarce also. Add a dash of humor, put up an "alien toilet" sign inside of the alien fortress, or an Amiga inside a computer room. Put hidden messages throughout the game. Let them tell a side story. Funny or dramatic. Happy or sad. Put an extra effort in one of the bosses. Make it super cool. It is impossible for all bosses to be super cool, but that one just might be, so everyone will remember him. Invent names and artifacts. But don't just splurt names like Xaxxzorx. It's on the wrong side of silly and reveals a lack of imagination. Mix artistic elements. Is a game 3D or pixel art ? Have a talented friend draw some cool pictures with pen and paper. Scan them and show them between the levels. Mixing art types goes a long way in describing an imaginary world to your audience. Everyone will remember "that game with cool drawings". Add some voice acting to the game. We are not so limited with RAM today. Make some memorable quotes for your audience.
Now, for the FPS specific. DON'T make a "save anytime" feature. It completely destroys suspension and fear factor. Save should be possible only between levels. Or just use codes for that purpose. Once again, AB3D got it just right. DON'T ever never ever do enemy re-spawning. It's annoying as hell and unrealistic. It could be done only as a part of a story/level design. Like there's an alien teleport and they keep popping out until you shut it down/destroy it. But re-appearing enemies for no reason is a big no-no.
I'll be sure to ease players into the game play then in the first level or two, but by level three I'm going to turn up the heat...
...but with a little exploration, players will find items to help balance out the difficulty.
This is the right way to go. It should not be mandatory to explore the whole level, but if you find it too difficult, you can snoop around and find that one grenade that will ease up the fight a bit.
Level design. As harsh as the constraints might be, try to make the command room look like a command room. Cafeteria, locker room, ammo depot, shooting range, prison, engine room, medi-block... They should have some distinguishable details. Not just be a room with an explaining sign on it.
Whoaaa man, have I got myself yapping with no end. Well, I have much more to say, but I don't want to risk annoying people :)
If anyone needs me, I'll be in my bunk :)
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3D shooters aren't games :D
I can honestly say I have never played any 3D shooter that I have enjoyed. In fact, I find them downright boring. Maybe this is a bit of a melodramatic broad comment...but "they are all the same game with different graphics"!
Come on .... - Not even Duke Nukem ?
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And what are your thoughts on Platforming in First Person? :)
Quite simply, "no".
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Now, for the FPS specific. ... DON'T ever never ever do enemy re-spawning. It's annoying as hell and unrealistic. It could be done only as a part of a story/level design. Like there's an alien teleport and they keep popping out until you shut it down/destroy it. But re-appearing enemies for no reason is a big no-no.
This is not FPS specific. Respawning bad guys are a pain in any genre. I hated Zool for that. They'd re-appear the instant their origin went off-screen; often, simply jumping straight up would be enough to make an enemy you'd just killed appear again and get you on the way down. Infuriating.
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There's no absolutes here. Everybody has different tastes and different things they deem "fun". In my opinion its easier to put a finger on what makes a bad game, and try to avoid that.
In my humble opinion however:
Variety, but not in excess is important. Too little variety there's little motivation to keep going. Overdo it however and there's never a sense of cohesion.
Learning curve. Give a player a level or 2 to come to grips with the game controls and basic mechanics. Again, dont overdo it though, or a person will just start thinking, "enough already, I just wanna get on with the game".
Im also a fan of a good storyline. Doesnt have to be the best story, but something engaging for me helps me me want to continue a game to see how the story pans out.
Audio. Especially for a dark, atmospheric FPS shouldnt be underestimated. For A grade modern gaming this atmosphere can to a degree be created with visuals, but for older games/game engines sound adds more. We have natural sensory responses to audiovisuals, so try to have at least one or the other adding to atmosphere.
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I can honestly say I have never played any 3D shooter that I have enjoyed. In fact, I find them downright boring. Maybe this is a bit of a melodramatic broad comment...but "they are all the same game with different graphics"!
To each his own as they say, but this is exactly the same with any genre.
Platformers, 2d shooters, racing games, rts games, etc., etc.
The devil is in the details. This is what separates games that are on the surface 80%+ (figure chosen at random) the same.
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Sad thing about these "mobile" games is they could have existed (or did) 20 years ago on Amiga but now suddendly they are considered good games because you can play them on your phone.
What's actually sad about that? Phones just happen to be a pretty good platform for this type of casual games. If I had a 15 minute commute I'd rather spend it playing Angry Birds than something heavier like Baldur's Gate or whatever, simply because the latter requires a greater attention span and more time to really indulge in its awesomeness. In my opinion, both are good games, but in many ways for totally different reasons. Whatever I think of the whole weird hype around Angry Birds doesn't really make or break the game in terms of quality.
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DON'T ever never ever do enemy re-spawning. It's annoying as hell and unrealistic. It could be done only as a part of a story/level design. Like there's an alien teleport and they keep popping out until you shut it down/destroy it. But re-appearing enemies for no reason is a big no-no.
I think Doom nailed that pretty well (especially compared to Doom 3 :)). To use your own terminology, it adds to the fear factor and suspense when done right. But I don't see realism in games as an inherently good thing. If it's unrealistic, so what? The whole premise of FPS games since the birth of the genre is unrealistic. You can't run and jump carrying five rifles. You can't restore your health instantly by walking into a white box. I can't think of a single realistic FPS I've spent any relevant amount of time with. Shooters that do aim for complete realism mostly end up having a completely arbitrary level of realism that makes every unrealistic element of the game pop out in a really disenchanting way.
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While Im not really a mobile gamer (I only a few emulators on my phone and never really bothered to download any other games), I actually think there's a few good things theyve (and Nintendo's Wii to a degree) bought back to gaming. Most notable being that people no longer judge games on so heavily on graphics.
It was only a few years ago when most gamers would write off a game before they even gave it a chance if the graphics werent up to par. Nowadays people are exposed to weaker platforms again, ergo much quicker to judge a game on its own merrits rather than the quality of its graphics.
There's still some people who dont look beyond audiovisuals, but this has always been the case (even amiga had its share of games that played badly, but looked nice, and sold well because of it).
Low spec systems (mobile devices) I believe have played a big part of this.
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Also a lot of flash games are very fun to play, even really simple ones. And even console and PC games don't insist on 3D/first person as much as they used to. There are many popular games on modern formats now that could be made on Amiga.
Realism... we don't need realism as such. But we do need a game to make sense, to be comprehensible and coherent.
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Personally, I think an admirable quality of some games is to really stay games, without making use of excessive cutscenes, written back stories, totally scripted and linear dialogue and explicit milestones, which are all things that more often than not detract from the immersion. If you can make the plot develop through gameplay itself rather than sifting through pages of back story or hours of cutscenes, you are doing a Good Thing.
On the other hand, I enjoy some games that have movie-like qualities, but they mostly get away with it because of some brilliant gameplay element.
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Quite simply, "no".
I apologize in advance then. ;)
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Realism... we don't need realism as such. But we do need a game to make sense, to be comprehensible and coherent.
Not necessarily, in my opinion. There are good games built on the idea that comprehensibility is the main challenge of them. Say, Fluxx, where the rules are constantly altered by its players, or Braid, where every level has its own unique space-time gimmick. Especially for puzzle games, both comprehensibility and cohesion might not be given goals.
As for realism, I agree; some of the deepest and most popular strategy games in the world are totally abstract.
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I think Doom nailed that pretty well (especially compared to Doom 3 :)). To use your own terminology, it adds to the fear factor and suspense when done right. But I don't see realism in games as an inherently good thing. If it's unrealistic, so what? The whole premise of FPS games since the birth of the genre is unrealistic. You can't run and jump carrying five rifles. You can't restore your health instantly by walking into a white box. I can't think of a single realistic FPS I've spent any relevant amount of time with. Shooters that do aim for complete realism mostly end up having a completely arbitrary level of realism that makes every unrealistic element of the game pop out in a really disenchanting way.
Well, I don't mean realistic in a "100% real world experience" kind of way. Of course games can't and need not be like that :)
Mrs Beenbag said it best. It's like an attack on the player's logic.
It's ok if you have a type of say... teleporting demon. So he can come at you from anywhere. Even the corridor you've just cleaned. Now that's good sense, good story telling and a significant fear factor. Or a type of monster that rises from the dead after 10 min or so. So you know he can be somewhere. But killing everyone in a room, moving on, then coming back after a while and seeing the whole bunch there like nothing has ever happened, now that's plain dumb and insulting for a player.
Respawning can be a cute trick if done well and in small doses, but doing it throughout the game is more likely to make the player quit in frustration. Or finish the game for the sake of finishing it, while mentioning the creator quite often and in nasty context :)
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If you dream about it, it's a good game.......
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I loved the old SSI "Gold Box" games, especially the first, Pool of Radiance, and other fantasy games of that era like Legacy of the Ancients on My C64, Wasteland, etc. A game doesn't have to have flashy graphics to be "good", I much preferred a free-flow storyline where you could sort of wander around the world if you wanted to, a good learning curve, and lots of options for character development. For me a good game was one that would keep you immersed in it's world all night long, and you wouldn't even notice how late it was! Just my .02 cents. :)
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If you dream about it, it's a good game.......
So, OT, but when Wasteland came out , I got it for my Apple IIe. For a week solid I woke up, did my paper route, Played Wasteland and went to sleep. Eating was in there somewhere too but I don't remember it...
After the week, I woke up (or thought I did) and couldn't move as there was a battle between my group from the game fighting robots and mutants ON MY CHEST!!!:rofl:
GOOD GAME!
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Haha, Ive had some majorly weird dreams during periods of excessive gaming. For some reason though they tend to be very over the top nightmares when I have dreams that are influenced by games. Perhaps due to the style of games that have the longevity required to completely submerge yourself into for a week or two and thier stories, or maybe due to the sleeping patterns that submerging yourself so heavily into a game requires (probably somewhere inbetween really). Whatever the reason they usually end up a twist on the same recurring theme. Lots of flesh tones (never full color), lots of blood, and my father's decapitating clones factory (weird story of its own), but with an influence from whatever game Im playing.
Reading this back Im not surprised I seldom have marathon gaming sessions :) Those dreams are creepy as all heck.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetris_effect