Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: on March 06, 2003, 01:37:38 PM
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Hi everyone
Just like to pose a question I need help with. Which is better in the longterm, Amiga One or a Pegasos board? I am looking to migrate (once again!) from the PC having come from an Amiga background (A4000, etc).
I am currently in the market to buy new hardware, and I need advice from the experts!
Thanks
Fahiem Wagiet
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Oh man, you sure asked the wrong question at a bad time...Let the flames/counterflames commence :-)
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Oops! Didn't mean to start a flame war!
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No worry, lets hope people can keep it civilized.
But on to the topic:
I currently going to buy the AmigaOne, not because it's better og worse than the competition, but just because thats what i think is the "right" new amiga.
If the A1 never materialize, i'll take a good look at the Pegasus though. and maybe buy one if it gains support.
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Just AmigaOne XE G4 & AmigaOS4 when Available...
:flame::nervous::destroy:
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I won't call myself an expert but i'll tell you my point of view as a user that wants an Amiga again. :)
I made the choice to go for the AmigaOne, I believe it has more chances to go public and I prefer to trust the Amiga team than anyone else. (Maybe i'm wrong, who knows?!)
OS4 seems to be almost the same cool OS that we loved to use with a touch of "modernity" and will probably have more sales potential than MorphOS. I can't trust the Pegasos/MorphOS machine yet, it seems too vague to me. Have they showed their system in the US or Canada yet? Ok, Amiga haven't showed anything either ;)
Its nothing technical, I have no speed or performance arguments to give because we all know it is pointless to argue about that (remember the old PC vs Amiga war? hehehe)
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There's only one solution: wait ! Now it depends how much time you want to wait.
Wait for OS4 to be out, wait for the time when we'll know what is the best solution: OS4 or MOS...
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Well it depends on the flip of a dice as far as I can see it.
#1 Pegasos. Sold out. You can't buy them at the moment, a replacement
Pegasos II is "promised" for September. Choose this route if you are willing
to wait till then and don't mind that it is MorphOS and not AmigaOS4. Obviously
you can run OS3.x apps but don't expect to be able to AmigaOS4 apps. Its a G3
only and doesn't have AGP and is sans a PCI slot. Plus side its microATX form
factor good for the dexterous. Has a CPU "slot" but currently no other
modules available for it ( modules are custom proprietary design ). MOS doesn't have a
PPC native TCP stack and is sort of between beta and production at the moment.
#2 AmigaONE. Well the SE is cheap and for sale. The XEs are for sale but
the shipping is slow. Choose this if you believe that AmigaOS4 is going to
be out for it before September and you want AmigaOS4. Obviously you can
run OS3.x apps but don't expect to be able to run MOS apps. Has AGP and
an extra PCI slot ( which you can't use when an AGP card is plugged in ). Its
ATX. Has a CPU slot ( called Megarray apparently ) which is based on an Apple
design and there ARE different CPUs available for it. Don't know what the likely
hood of other CPU modules being built by third parties are.
Good luck, and try to make up your OWN mind.
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A1 without a doubt
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Hey, does OS4 have PPC TCP/IP stack now? ;)
If it does it is probably in beta stage :)
Anyway, Pegasos I is sold out and I recall they are not making those anymore. They have some units left for special cases tho. So if you want Pegasos you have to wait for Pegasos II now.
OTOH A1 is available but without OS4. So if you want OS4 you have to wait. Quite interesting situation.
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@DaveP:
Has AGP and an extra PCI slot ( which you can't use when an AGP card is plugged in )
Which I am currently using at the same time as AGP. What's your point? I think the last comment from MAI was something like "either both are 33MHz, or both are 66MHz". I'm not entirely sure, though. I just know that I get sound from the output on the card that is plugged into the shared slot, and I get video from the AGP card. :-)
Oh, and to the person who started the thread: I made up my decision around this time last year, and received my A1 in mid May same year. I haven't regretted that decision (especially since it's the fastest OGR-cracking machine I have, even beats the 2.2GHz P4 at the office using the latest client...)
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#1 Pegasos. Sold out. You can't buy them at the moment
You are correct that you can't buy them at the moment but not because it is sold out, just because they are not delivered to the dealers yet.
Sold out to the dealers, not to the end users. :-D
and doesn't have AGP and is sans a PCI slot
What are you smoking ? Both Pegasos1 and Pegasos2 have AGP/PCI.
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Thanks everyone, A1 it is!
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"Which is better in the longterm, Amiga One or a Pegasos board? "
IMO: Both are doomed to fail as mass product, but existance is anyway "good enough" for me. ;-)
Peg1 is a dead end (except that you'll be able to swap it to peg2 for 200€), and it is not anymore available (and for example HW drivers for peg2 will have priority over peg1 HW drivers).
A1XE is planned to have longer life than peg1, but peg2 has the potential to be faster, but only time will tell...
I would say AOS4 could have better future because it's not tied to any particular HW manufacturer ... but AOS4 does not yet exist and that is a very bad thing, as MOS is gaining momentum all the time while AOS4 stands still in the inexistance.
I think that when peg2 becomes available for Joe the Average, it would be very stupid to keep on waiting for AOS4 if AOS4 has not been released at that time.
I HOPE that after AOS4 is ready, it will be ported to several third party PPC platforms (Elbox, Matay+Sonnet, PowerMac, pegasos2), then it would have the best possibilities + the name.
The ultimate answer: A1XE is the best option today/next week, because you will be able to BUY it.
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Ive orderderd an amigaone . Pegasos looks good but it has a smaller chance of making it.
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The Pegasos is the best solution by far.
It's a custom-designed computer made by experts in the Amiga hardware field (ex-Phase5 people) whereas the AmigaOne is a Generic, off-the-shelf POP board.
Also MorphOS is in a much more advanced state - it's actually here, now - people are using it. OS4, though, doesn't exist as an OS (just modules which are being tested on 68k machines) and nobody knows how long it will take to complete. Pegasos also has the benefit of firewire as standard.
Also, Genesi (the company making Pegasos) is very community-oriented and keep people informed on current developments, sponsors shows, offers large discounts on Pegasos boards to developers, and are generally very helpful and friendly.
Amiga Inc are the exact opposite as they tell lies and don't communicate and even stole money from Amiga users through their coupon scheme (If you don't know about this scheme, then back in July last year Amiga Inc ran a promotion whereby you paid $50 to get a $50 coupon for discount on AmigaOne, a T-Shirt, and entitlement to special discounts on future Amiga products. A lot of people (including me) paid their $50 and have still recieved nothing 8 months later).
So, there's the facts - it's up to you to decide which one you want :-)
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AmigaOne!!!
I ordered the AmigaOne G4-XE. Probably will take some time but OS 4 also.
I don't mind though. It's gonna be great when it all is ready. ;-)
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Thats strange, Pegasos is a POP based board using much the same
chipset as the A1 . By reading that you'd get the impression that it
was made by master craftsmen or something and didn't use off the shelf
parts itself.
I don't think the rest of the flamebait should be taken as "facts" either. Why
does someone always have to do this?
@ole etc.
OK so that was innacurate. Apologies. OK so the Pegasos has an
AGP slot - is it *working*? ( yes/no - no flaming needed ).
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Hello DaveP,
...and doesn't have AGP and is sans a PCI slot...
Did I misread the stuff about this in the Announcement concerning the Genesi/Phoenix collaboration news item? :-?
downix wrote ...A few, but why do you ask as there won't be a PCI-X slot on the motherboard, just the PCI's and an AGP slot....
(the 25th comment :-))
Ok, I'm not a very technical guy (except for making my webslingers :-D), so It is possible I misread something.
To dweebgeek,
I just bought a Pegasos and my personal advice to you is:
When you are willing to wait for OS4 (yes, the software), then wait for it because it will be worth the wait!
When you want to do something Amiga-ish as soon as possible, then look for a Pegasos with MorphOS.
As known to a lot of people, with this you can run Amiga software recent software, but the future direction will not be the same as OS4 (well, I didn't read anything solid in this direction)
Oh, ofcourse you can buy a peecee or Mac and go on emulating an Amiga?? :-)
Spidey
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I am a developer and a member of the Phoenix Developer Consortium (http://www.phinixi.com). I would happily support any OS and Platform, including AmigaOS4 and MorphOS, if it is viable for me to do so.
I too am waiting to see the AmigaONE platform running AmigaOS4. I heard a rumour that there is going to be some kind of demo of it lauched this month. I have heard rumour that AmigaOS4 is similar to MAC OSX.
However, I am concerned about the missing features (see my signature) and the lack of answers from either AmigaInc or Hyperion regarding this.
(By the way, does anyone know who is developing the web browser for AmigaOS4?)
I am taking advantage of the $299 Pegasos offer for developers and hopefully will be getting a Pegasos motherboard in in a few weeks.
Once I get my Pegasos board I will be showing it to other developers in the area of Vancouver Island, Canada. Quite possibly the Vancouver area too.
Anyone who is in Canada and is interested in checking out the Pegasos, please email or pmail me here.
Pegasos II when development is completed and into production.
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I have heard rumour that AmigaOS4 is similar to MAC OSX.
Huh? In what way 'similar' its based on AmigaOS, not BSD :-D
However, I am concerned about the missing features (see my signature)
TBH, i see neither of those two things as all that important for me.
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@spidey
You tell me. I don't own or have ever touched one of those boards.
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Hey, does OS4 have PPC TCP/IP stack now? ;)
If it does it is probably in beta stage :)
Bad thing to mention, iti. ;-) OS4 will have a complete and fully functional TCP/IP stack called RoadShow, afaik done by Olaf Barthel, not a name you associate with dodgy software. I think it'll probably be more complete than OS4 when it arrives...
As for MOS...it's has no standard TCP/IP stack yet. See what I mean when I said bad thing to mention? ;-)
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@Darth_X:
However, I am concerned about the missing features (see my signature) and the lack of answers from either AmigaInc or Hyperion regarding this.
[...]
What is missing from AmigaOS4:
1.. ACM (Amiga Component Model)
2.. An advanced Amiga Audio API
These were never promised for AmigaOS4, they were promised for AmigaDE. Post a link where somebody promised them for OS4, or remoe the signature ;-)
(By the way, does anyone know who is developing the web browser for AmigaOS4?)
The IBrowse team of course.
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It's my intention to wait for the release of OS4.
Then, unless it is a complete dog purchase an A1.
If, for some reason, OS4 is a dog, I will then
look further into MOS and Pegasos.
I remain highly skeptical about the long term viability
of the MOS path. The tenacity of Hyperion under heavy
fire gives me hope that this will be a solid path
toward the future.
But then only TimeWillTell
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It's interesting that people are saying the AmigaOne has a better chance of success because it is an "official" Amiga product. Reputation (i.e., the name) may influence some consumers, but the name alone is not enough to make any product successful. Look at cases where a well-known brand was bought but the product didn't live up to its past standards (Fender guitars, Packard Bell, etc.). So I'm not sure how much of a factor that is outside of the already-convinced fans.
As far as corporate prospects are concerned, if you're concerned about future stability, Genesi is certainly in much better shape than Amiga, Inc. and Hyperion. They have income sources in other industries (airline security, as I understand it), and their product line looks like it could be pretty diverse. Watching how Bill Buck has money to throw at promotion and so on, it's hard to argue on this one.
As for the products themselves, it's impossible to say at this point. Everything is either unfinished or still in/just out of beta. I've never seen a Pegasos board up close, but people who have say it's a work of art. The pictures on the web give some hints of this. I'm sure once the bugs are wrung out, both boards will run pretty much any software available as fast and smooth as people need. Well, there've been comments about how this thing or that is broken, but most people won't push their boards hard enough to notice, from what I hear.
It'll be interesting to see what the Pegasos II is like, since it won't be using the Articia chip any more. I imagine there'll be more divergence as time goes on.
The question in my mind is what the next step is, software-wise. OK, both boards/OSs can run older Amiga apps in a kind of run-time environment. But how will native PPC software come along for each platform? Here Amiga has history on its side, but Genesi is much more proactive about getting developers on board, supporting user groups, and so on. So it'll be very interesting once people have these computers and start producing software for them.
It's interesting that a lot of Amigans, who generally think of themselves as independent thinkers, are now putting down these other "rebels" who've started up their own thing without the official blessing. I don't see much free thinking when people are definite about a product choice when they haven't even had their hands on either option.
-- gary_c
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DaveP wrote:
Thats strange, Pegasos is a POP based board using much the same
chipset as the A1 . By reading that you'd get the impression that it
was made by master craftsmen or something and didn't use off the shelf
parts itself.
I don't think the rest of the flamebait should be taken as "facts" either. Why
does someone always have to do this?
Perhaps you can point out which parts of what I said weren't "facts" as, having re-read it several times, I have yet to spot any.
Thanks in advance
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Hey Spidey, Nice Avvy !!
I was gonna correct DaveP's assertion about the PCI slot on the AGP bus, but Ole has already done that. clarification - its a bandwidth issue only. the AGP port is essentially PCI, but with various signals removed as you only get one per machine. and since a bus like that can only run at the speed of its slowest part, if you use a 33MHz PCI card in that but it will slow down the AGP to 33MHz (note: AGP 1x is effectively twice as fast as PCI 33MHz - I think this is down to it using falling edges on the clock signal as well as the rising ones. AGP 2x is clocked twice as fast, hence the PCI slot sharing the bus is capable of 66MHz !! Makes sense, just dunno if I am accurate)
This also means if you use something heavy duty in that PCI slot, you will lose AGP performance. so Ole, if your soundcard is 66MHz capable on the PCI side, you should suffer no Graphics performance loss. :-P
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Lando wrote:
The Pegasos is the best solution by far.
It's a custom-designed computer made by experts in the Amiga hardware field (ex-Phase5 people) whereas the AmigaOne is a Generic, off-the-shelf POP board.
Also MorphOS is in a much more advanced state - it's actually here, now - people are using it. OS4, though, doesn't exist as an OS (just modules which are being tested on 68k machines) and nobody knows how long it will take to complete. Pegasos also has the benefit of firewire as standard.
Also, Genesi (the company making Pegasos) is very community-oriented and keep people informed on current developments, sponsors shows, offers large discounts on Pegasos boards to developers, and are generally very helpful and friendly.
Amiga Inc are the exact opposite as they tell lies and don't communicate and even stole money from Amiga users through their coupon scheme (If you don't know about this scheme, then back in July last year Amiga Inc ran a promotion whereby you paid $50 to get a $50 coupon for discount on AmigaOne, a T-Shirt, and entitlement to special discounts on future Amiga products. A lot of people (including me) paid their $50 and have still recieved nothing 8 months later).
So, there's the facts - it's up to you to decide which one you want :-)
There you go wiseguy. Last sentence. You claim they are all facts. This is
going to result in a flame war and you know it. Don't play the innocent. You want
to do this , the place for you is : Flame War Network (http://www.ann.lu)
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There you go wiseguy. Last sentence. You claim they are all facts.
Yes. Facts. Thats what they are. Like I said, If you're disputing that part of what I wrote is true, tell me which part you're referring to, and if it proves not to be a fact I will happily retract it :-)
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@cgutjahr
These were never promised for AmigaOS4, they were promised for AmigaDE. Post a link where somebody promised them for OS4, or remove the signature
I added this questions to my signature in hopes that I would get some notice everywhere and hopefully official comments! :-D
Either way, I was told these items were completed, but there is NO official report of them being completed on the AmigaInc website. Remember: "If it's not posted here.. then its not official". So where is it? (If there is, please post a link/URL here for me to check out please!) :-D
I find it ODD that these items would be completed, but then burried, when they are really needed in OS4.
With all the porting work Hyperion is doing for 68K AmigaOS to PPC, you would think AmigaInc would commision the stuff originally developed for Amiga-Anywhere to be ported to AmigaOS4, where the main focus is now.
ps: I'll have to check out what the iBrowse team are doing with regards web browser :-D
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As far as corporate prospects are concerned, if you're concerned about future stability, Genesi is certainly in much better shape than Amiga, Inc. and Hyperion. They have income sources in other industries (airline security, as I understand it), and their product line looks like it could be pretty diverse. Watching how Bill Buck has money to throw at promotion and so on, it's hard to argue on this one.
Is that so! Amiga also have income outside the Amiga industry. So do Hyperion! When the AmigaOne and OS 4 are ready in quantities we don't need advertising. The WORD is enough to jump start a chain reaction in news sites.
It's interesting that a lot of Amigans, who generally think of themselves as independent thinkers, are now putting down these other "rebels" who've started up their own thing without the official blessing. I don't see much free thinking when people are definite about a product choice when they haven't even had their hands on either option.
It's just like you said. History! And the fact is that history proves Hyperion delivers. These are NOT stupid people. Not only that; there are 30 of the best programmers working on the AmigaOS. They all know what we like in the AmigaOS.
We all like what VisualPrefs can do so something like it is implemented (well, there are always a few that don't).
We must keep in perspective here. Hyperion started working on OS 4 much later then those people on MorphOS so it would have been a miracle if these guys were ready on the same time.
Hyperion also won't sell anything untill it is sufficiently stable. There will always be bugs and quirks! You will only iron out most of those if your working on CMM level 5. Then you need 500 programmers and 5 years to bring out OS 4.
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OK here goes.
The Pegasos is the best solution by far.
Not a fact. Thats a poijnt of view.
It's a custom-designed computer made by experts in the Amiga hardware field (ex-Phase5 people) whereas the AmigaOne is a Generic, off-the-shelf POP board.
Subjective as to whether they are experts, they have experience. The AmigaONE is
also custom designed, that also ( like the Pegasos ) happens to have something in
common with POP.
Also MorphOS is in a much more advanced state - it's actually here, now - people are using it.
Agreed.
OS4, though, doesn't exist as an OS
Untrue. It does exist as an OS. Just only the betatesters are using it.
(just modules which are being tested on 68k machines) and nobody knows how long it will take to complete.
Untrue.
Pegasos also has the benefit of firewire as standard.
Subjective: benefit.
Also, Genesi (the company making Pegasos) is very community-oriented and keep people informed on current developments,
Agreed.
sponsors shows, offers large discounts on Pegasos boards to developers, and are generally very helpful and friendly.
Agreed. For the most part. Although joining Phoenix to get a discount
is not my idea of a pleasurable process but that is MY subjective
opinion.
Amiga Inc are the exact opposite as they tell lies
Subjective that they are "lies". Wouldn't you say that claiming that
the dev con for Pegasos was going to be far earlier than it actually
was also a "lie"? or that G4 was going to be available on the Pegasos? You
see "lie" is an emotive and subjective statement in this context.
and don't communicate
Untrue. They do communicate, its just when they do everyone wishes
they hadn't.
and even stole money from Amiga users
Thats right, Fleecy nipped in through the window and nicked your wallet.
through their coupon scheme (If you don't know about this scheme, then back in July last year Amiga Inc ran a promotion whereby you paid $50 to get a $50 coupon for discount on AmigaOne, a T-Shirt, and entitlement to special discounts on future Amiga products.
No. You payed $50 dollars to join a club and to get a $50 coupon discount on AmigaONE. The T-shirt
although no one has one yet apparently never had a committed "when" it would pop
through the letterbox. I happen to be very negative about this scheme
but "steal" is way over the top and NOT a fact. I might not like the facts
as you clearly don't but I at least acknowledge the truth of the matter.
So, there's the facts - it's up to you to decide which one you want :-)
Again. They are not all facts.
There you go wiseguy. Last sentence. You claim they are all facts. This is
going to result in a flame war and you know it. Don't play the innocent. You want
to do this , the place for you is : Flame War Network (http://www.ann.lu)[/quote]
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@Tickly
Huh? In what way 'similar' its based on AmigaOS, not BSD
Yes, and.. source code is being compiled from BSD and Linux for core components of AmigaOS4. (There is also a rumour that code for ExecSG is compiled from openVMS too.)
TBH, i see neither of those two things as all that important for me.
Perhaps, not for you, but to developers coming from Windows or Mac then these are desired features.
By the way, I am coming from the Windows market. Don't you want me to be in this market?
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Darth_X wrote:
@Tickly
Huh? In what way 'similar' its based on AmigaOS, not BSD
Yes, and.. source code is being compiled from BSD and Linux for core components of AmigaOS4. (There is also a rumour that code for ExecSG is compiled from openVMS too.)
#1 that rumour is just a rumour.
#2 it is being cross compiled - this means that all it really uses is a compiler
that can generate PPC binaries. People used to cross compile spectrum games
using a developer kit on the Atari ST. Doesn't mean the games take any part
of the AtariST forwards onto the ZX Spectrum.
TBH, i see neither of those two things as all that important for me.
Perhaps, not for you, but to developers coming from Windows or Mac then these are desired features.
By the way, I am coming from the Windows market. Don't you want me to be in this market?
They are "desirable" features - but nice to haves - not essentials.
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DaveP wrote:
They are "desirable" features - but nice to haves - not essentials.
Let me disagree on this point: a component model and high level APIs are crucial to foster development on a platform. We're in 2003, we don't want to reinvent the wheel once again, do we? If someone creates a component and releases it in the public domain, I may be able to integrate it in my application at little to zero cost.
COM/ActiveX may give you a clear example: leaving the beauty of the Windows COM implementation aside, the productivity of the Windows developer is much higher thanks to components. If I have to use a professional grid in my app, I'd use FlexGrid rather than develop my own...
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Oh come on. Who said anything about re-inventing the wheel? Tell me
what in the AOS4 feature list you would put above this?
If you are a Windows developer playing around with MicroSoft based
components ( or even an open source or Java framework ) then
are you likely to want to learn a new API? No. What is needed is
a port of what the developers are using RIGHT NOW - embrace
and extend it.
ACM is its own peculiar beast.
They are nice to haves. First lets have a working operating system
and native development tools please. Then we will see about high
level developer kits.
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DaveP wrote:
OK here goes.
The Pegasos is the best solution by far.
Not a fact. Thats a poijnt of view.
A point of view based on facts. Maybe I would insert "In the opinion of most right-minded people" in front of that first sentence.
It's a custom-designed computer made by experts in the Amiga hardware field (ex-Phase5 people) whereas the AmigaOne is a Generic, off-the-shelf POP board.
Subjective as to whether they are experts, they have experience.
Can you think of anyone with more expertise in designing PowerPC Amiga hardware than Phase 5?
It is correct to say that Genesi are experts.
The AmigaONE is
also custom designed, that also ( like the Pegasos ) happens to have something in
common with POP.
Also MorphOS is in a much more advanced state - it's actually here, now - people are using it.
Agreed.
OS4, though, doesn't exist as an OS
Untrue. It does exist as an OS. Just only the betatesters are using it.
[/quote]
No. It does not.
People are running PARTS of OS4 on their classic Amigas.
(just modules which are being tested on 68k machines) and nobody knows how long it will take to complete.
Untrue.
No. Not untrue. Unless you happen to know someone with a working Beta of OS4 booting into Workbench on Teron boards with no 68k present?
Pegasos also has the benefit of firewire as standard.
Subjective: benefit.
Oh. So Firewire is a disadvantage?
Also, Genesi (the company making Pegasos) is very community-oriented and keep people informed on current developments,
Agreed.
sponsors shows, offers large discounts on Pegasos boards to developers, and are generally very helpful and friendly.
Agreed. For the most part.
Amiga Inc are the exact opposite as they tell lies
Subjective that they are "lies". Wouldn't you say that claiming that
the dev con for Pegasos was going to be far earlier than it actually
was also a "lie"? or that G4 was going to be available on the Pegasos? You
see "lie" is an emotive and subjective statement in this context.
"AmigaOne PPC /1200 On schedule and rockin"
"Others have taken your money in the past, with no products ever delivered to customers. We are not doing that, nor would we EVER do that"
"AmigaOne for the A1200 will be out this summer (2001)"
"AmigaOS 4.0 out this summer (2001) with the first of the AmigaOne Zico specification machines."
Actually I could fill pages and pages with this stuff :-)
and don't communicate
Untrue. They do communicate, its just when they do everyone wishes
they hadn't.
10+ emails unanswered. Do not communicate.
and even stole money from Amiga users
Thats right, Fleecy nipped in through the window and nicked your wallet.
No. He was slightly more subtle than that. Not much, mind you.
through their coupon scheme (If you don't know about this scheme, then back in July last year Amiga Inc ran a promotion whereby you paid $50 to get a $50 coupon for discount on AmigaOne, a T-Shirt, and entitlement to special discounts on future Amiga products.
No. You payed $50 dollars to join a club and to get a $50 coupon discount on AmigaONE. The T-shirt
although no one has one yet apparently never had a committed "when" it would pop
through the letterbox. I happen to be very negative about this scheme
but "steal" is way over the top and NOT a fact. I might not like the facts
as you clearly don't but I at least acknowledge the truth of the matter.
Pedantry. The fact that Amiga Inc didn't specify WHEN the product would delivered is neither here nor there.
They said:-
"All items will be delivered after the completion of the promotion, and initial sign up program".
The promotion ended in August last year.
If I buy a product online, and that company takes my money, and eight months later the product I ordered has still not arrived, that I have had no explanation from that company as to the reasons for the delay, that I have no replies to my demands for re-payment of my money, I think it is fair to say that the company in question has stolen my money. In the real world.
So, there's the facts - it's up to you to decide which one you want :-)
Again. They are not all facts.
Well, you haven't convinced me that anything I wrote is not 100% true I'm afraid.
There you go wiseguy. Last sentence. You claim they are all facts. This is
going to result in a flame war and you know it. Don't play the innocent. You want
to do this , the place for you is : Flame War Network (http://www.ann.lu)
The only one flaming people in this thread is you. I'm sure ann will welcome you with open arms.
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I'd put it this way. AmigaOne without OS4 is practically useless. And judging by late silence from Amiga, plus Hyperion folks can't even give an estimate when it will be ready, it doesn't look too good. I have bet money (5€) that this will happen in 3/4 of 2003.
Also there are _rumours_ of A1 board being somewhat crippled and a hack. if this is true, your guess is just as good as mine.
Meanwhile there are hundreds of Pegasos' floating around used by developers. And some of them I'd call "Keypeople of community". Those developers won't necessarily never do any good for A1/OS4.
Also, while waiting for OS4 to arrive, MOS gets better and more polished every day.
OS4 looks good on paper, MOS looks good now.
AmigaOne doesn't look good on paper, Pegasos2 does. And those two items are likely to arrive just about the same time (3rd quarter 2003 as I quessed ;-)
WHEN Peg2 and A1/OS4 arrives, there's (hopefully) quite nice set of software available for MOS, when developing for A1 only *begins*.
Looking at the situation from this point of view, it's obvious who leaves the ring undefeated.
My point of view only, fuel up the flamethrowers.
-
DaveP wrote:
They are nice to haves. First lets have a working operating system
and native development tools please. Then we will see about high
level developer kits.
You're damn right :-) Let's have OS4 first, then we'll see.
-
@dweebgeek
Ignore the "Amiga Rulez" people and get what does the job you need it for.
As for Amiga inc, they quote wild and untrue release dates but they are not liars simply because they are "Amiga inc", if this was any other company outside of Amiga you guys would not be defending them as if they are some soft of heros.
-
Not a fact. Thats a poijnt of view.
A point of view based on facts. Maybe I would insert "In the opinion of most right-minded people" in front of that first sentence.
Childish. So everyone who doesn't agree with you is not right minded?
Can you think of anyone with more expertise in designing PowerPC Amiga hardware than Phase 5?
It is correct to say that Genesi are experts.
Experience != Expertise.
OS4, though, doesn't exist as an OS
Untrue. It does exist as an OS. Just only the betatesters are using it.
No. It does not.
People are running PARTS of OS4 on their classic Amigas.
Oh yes and you accuse me of pedantry. Please tell me how you know
more of the current status of the Beta than I do?
(just modules which are being tested on 68k machines) and nobody knows how long it will take to complete.
Untrue.
No. Not untrue. Unless you happen to know someone with a working Beta of OS4 booting into Workbench on Teron boards with no 68k present?
No. You said "just modules which are being tested on 68k machines" which is clearly
incorrect. Even in the public domain people like you know that ExecSG is PPC native and
is being tested on PPC machines unless you are going to dream up some PPC emulator
for 68k. Beyond the public domain we don't need to go - despite you trying to
shift ground on the criteria because we have already contradicted your "fact" with
the truth as is publically known.
Pegasos also has the benefit of firewire as standard.
Subjective: benefit.
Oh. So Firewire is a disadvantage?
I repeat: subjective: benefit.
and don't communicate
Untrue. They do communicate, its just when they do everyone wishes
they hadn't.
10+ emails unanswered. Do not communicate.
Communicate, post here, executive updates that you refer to. Even HMetal
( Ray Akey ) talks openly in the forum. Press release we have all been ripping
shreds out of on CeBit was signed by Amiga Inc. They are certainly less
communicative than they used to be.
and even stole money from Amiga users
Thats right, Fleecy nipped in through the window and nicked your wallet.
No. He was slightly more subtle than that. Not much, mind you.
Care to explain?
through their coupon scheme (If you don't know about this scheme, then back in July last year Amiga Inc ran a promotion whereby you paid $50 to get a $50 coupon for discount on AmigaOne, a T-Shirt, and entitlement to special discounts on future Amiga products.
No. You payed $50 dollars to join a club and to get a $50 coupon discount on AmigaONE. The T-shirt
although no one has one yet apparently never had a committed "when" it would pop
through the letterbox. I happen to be very negative about this scheme
but "steal" is way over the top and NOT a fact. I might not like the facts
as you clearly don't but I at least acknowledge the truth of the matter.
Pedantry. The fact that Amiga Inc didn't specify WHEN the product would delivered is neither here nor there.
Not pedantry. You were claiming that your POV were facts.
They said:-
"All items will be delivered after the completion of the promotion, and initial sign up program".
The promotion ended in August last year.
Yep. They said that and it is still AFTER the completion of the promotion.
If I buy a product online, and that company takes my money, and eight months later the product I ordered has still not arrived, that I have had no explanation from that company as to the reasons for the delay, that I have no replies to my demands for re-payment of my money, I think it is fair to say that the company in question has stolen my money. In the real world.
Whats your club membership details? The product you ordered was "club membership".
Well, you haven't convinced me that anything I wrote is not 100% true I'm afraid.
No, what I haven't done is changed your opinion of Amiga Inc. I have clearly
demonstrated that you posted your opinion as fact.
The only one flaming people in this thread is you. I'm sure ann will welcome you with open arms.
[/quote]
Oh so disagree with you and exposing your trolling for a flame war for the world to see
is flaming you? Amazing.
-
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DaveP wrote:
They are nice to haves. First lets have a working operating system
and native development tools please. Then we will see about high
level developer kits.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're damn right Let's have OS4 first, then we'll see
YES!
-
Paul_Gadd wrote:
@dweebgeek
Ignore the "Amiga Rulez" people and get what does the job you need it for.
As for Amiga inc, they quote wild and untrue release dates but they are not liars simply because they are "Amiga inc", if this was any other company outside of Amiga you guys would not be defending them as if they are some soft of heros.
I couldn't think of a less of an "Amiga Rulez" person than myself, well
maybe Bill Buck but thats it. I'm not defending them *because*
they are "Amiga Inc".
I would not go so far as to accuse them of theft, I was not stupid enough
to fall for the I Am Amiga rubbish in the first place for a start.
I would not describe Amiga Inc as "liars" ( which has serious overtones
at least in this country to do with litigation )
nor would I describe Genesi as "liars" just because they both have failed
to meet ALL the expectation that they set, have slipped dates, were let down
by suppliers etc. It is called the "real world". I mean look back at Viscorp there
are still questions unanswered for a lot of people that go around accusing
BBRV of deliberately misleading the public during that time. The reality
of the matter is that there is things that you can say in public that go
tits up practically as you thought something was a done deal.
I happen to have little respect for the marketing speak that is spoken
by every Executive update and I have a LOT of respect for the straight
talk of Alan ( even though I don't always agree with them ).
-
Hello DaveP,
A lot is said on this subject since my post earlier today. But to answer your question:
I've got the Peg1 here (I'm writing this mail on it with IBrowse2.3reg :-))
This board is the same as the pictures circulating on the net, so it has PCI and a AGP slot.
My confusion was just about the Peg2 board. I read only the comments on Amiga.Org so I dropped my confusion here, that's it.
I'm not a guy who wants to speculate about stuff (though it's fun to read it :-D).
I could say that Genesi are making stuff behind curtains, but I don't know it for sure, I've just heard it. Or I could discuss the betatesting of OS4 at this moment. I just don't know how much is integrated in the Exec, so I stay away from saying something about that part too.
When it comes, people will evaluate it and then we can compare these two systems in speed and performance.
That is what I think about this whole stuff.
There is only one thing I feel I'm cheated with and that's the 50 Euro coupon deal.
The day I decided to pay for it, I heared and read that the A1 was about to be released and that day was 07 july 2002!! Until now I didn't get anything from Amiga Inc. the only guys I will support are Hyperion. I'll buy OS4 and that's it.
Spidey
-
Darth_X wrote:
However, I am concerned about the missing features (see my signature) and the lack of answers from either AmigaInc or Hyperion regarding this.
ACM is an AmigaDE project only. If you are looking for a component model in general, I can tell you that the new shared library system comes close. It is missing a central registry in the sence that you cannot create components by GUID or string ID, but that would be easily added.
Audio is implemented using AHI, as is clearly stated in the feature list. OS 4.x with x > 0 will have reworked audio/graphics/multimedia.
(By the way, does anyone know who is developing the web browser for AmigaOS4?)
IBrowse will be included. See the interview with Stefan Burstrom recently, or the OS 4 feature list
OS 4 will be similar to AmigaOS BTW, not MacOS X. We're trying to get some of the better features from other OSes included, but "similar" is too strong a term, and hardly desirable...
-
DaveP wrote:
Childish. So everyone who doesn't agree with you is not right minded?
People who can't see the truth when it is laid out in front of their eyes in black and white.
Can you think of anyone with more expertise in designing PowerPC Amiga hardware than Phase 5?
It is correct to say that Genesi are experts.
Experience != Expertise.
ex·pert ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kspûrt)
n.
A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.
Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training.
No. It does not.
People are running PARTS of OS4 on their classic Amigas.
Oh yes and you accuse me of pedantry. Please tell me how you know
more of the current status of the Beta than I do?
I repeat: OS4, though, doesn't exist AS AN OS.
Running the new HDToolbox on your 040 doesn't count I'm afraid.
despite you trying to
shift ground on the criteria because we have already contradicted your "fact" with
the truth as is publically known.
You're scraping the barrel now Dave.
I haven't shifted ground on any criteria. Nor have you managed to contradict any of the facts I submitted. I repeat. OS4 does not exist as an OS. The EXACT same words I used in my first post. Move the goalposts if you wish, it doesn't make anything I said less true.
Oh. So Firewire is a disadvantage?
I repeat: subjective: benefit.
I'll take that as a "no".
Pedantry. The fact that Amiga Inc didn't specify WHEN the product would delivered is neither here nor there.
Not pedantry. You were claiming that your POV were facts.
No. I wrote some facts and then when you questioned them I offered proof.
They said:-
"All items will be delivered after the completion of the promotion, and initial sign up program".
The promotion ended in August last year.
Yep. They said that and it is still AFTER the completion of the promotion.
LOL
No, what I haven't done is changed your opinion of Amiga Inc. I have clearly
demonstrated that you posted your opinion as fact.
No. You haven't. I posted facts. That's all.
Oh so disagree with you and exposing your trolling for a flame war for the world to see
is flaming you? Amazing.
You aren't exposing anything apart from your own inability to understand. I'll leave you to it.... Best of luck with your "AmigaONE XE" purchase.
-
Darth_X wrote:
Yes, and.. source code is being compiled from BSD and Linux for core components of AmigaOS4.
Sorry, that's untrue. The only BSD'ish thing is RoadShow, but I don't know if this was really based on any BSD source code or if Olaf wrote it from scratch.
(There is also a rumour that code for ExecSG is compiled from openVMS too.)
[color=CC0000]ABSOULTE UTTERLY UNTRUE RUMOUR[/color]
I wonder who came up with that, although I can imagine...
Not a single line of source code in ExecSG is old, stolen, or compiled from other sources. It was all written from scratch, except for half a dozen functions that came from original Exec (ANSI C compiled to PowerPC code, before rumours of "emulated 68k ExecSG" come up again).
(if someone wants to flame me now for harassing people, go ahead)
Perhaps, not for you, but to developers coming from Windows or Mac then these are desired features.
By the way, I am coming from the Windows market. Don't you want me to be in this market?
Of course we do.
-
@lando
Right. Whatever. If you say it enough to yourself you might convince
yourself. This is as far as Ill allow myself to be baited by a troll I should
have done what others did and just ignore you.
-
@spidey
Thanks bud!
-
The amigaone pop motherboard was an ibm desighn and no small company has the money to desighn something better than ibm the pegosis is desighned by ex phase 5 people if they were so bloody good how come phase 5 went bankrupt .
Both machines are overpriced but os 4 has much better features being implemented than morph os neither of these machines is as good or as powerful as the pc im using now and they never will be.
im still looking forward to my a1 though .if anything these machines could be the last amiga and amiga clone and we can just let the amiga name die and move on looking at it in reality why would you buy either. :-D :-? :-? :-? :-?
-
@DaveP,
It seems to be a common myth that you can't have any strong opinions about anything for vague potential 'legal' issues.
If Amiga, Inc. has lied, they can be called liars. Its perfectly OK. Even in the United States. I've never seen anyone yet show me a case, where a person who lied, was named a liar, and then went into court and won a defamation case.
It just doesn't happen.
First, the person claiming defamation is under the burden to prove that the defamation was false. Amiga, Inc. must prove they are not liars. Wow, that's hard, after all they have issued many untrue statements. Secondly, they must prove intent. That also quite difficult. Finally, they really must have the money to fight the case, and if they have any sense of reason at all, an expectation that the party they are suing can afford to pay a judgement.
Mostly what people do, is they just make veiled threats about legal action to intimidate and let people's paranoia take over.
Just for the record, Bill McEwen is a prevaricator. Amiga, Inc. uses equivocal language.
In other words, liar liar pants on fire.
<---Look at me, in no legal trouble whatsoever.
I agree with most of the langauge of your post. You don't call someone a liar for failing to meet expectations, thats true. You call someone a liar when they don't tell the truth.
I respect the opinion of the webmaster's here...if they don't like liar posts, fine....but I think the value of a discussion board is severely limited, if people can't observe outrageous activity, like such as Amiga, Inc. has engaged in, and then not make any comment on it, because of paranoia.
-
amigamad wrote:
The amigaone pop motherboard was an ibm desighn
AFAIK Open POP is an IBM design ( well spec ) but the Teron CX/PX
contain enough Mai design investment to be considered a "custom
design".
and no small company has the money to desighn something better than ibm the pegosis is desighned by ex phase 5 people if they were so bloody good how come phase 5 went bankrupt .
Being good at producing accelerator boards to work with the A1200
and A4000 does not make you expert at designing complete POP
motherboards. This also means that just because they didn't have
a good business model with the accelerators does not mean they
don't with the Pegasos motherboards. There is a difference between
the "talent" and the "director".
The suggestion is that there is something "Amiga" specialised about
the Pegasos when in fact it is just another PPC motherboard. The
Amiga "expertise" went into MorphOS. Any claims that somehow
the Pegasos is more "custom" because it was designed by ex PhaseV
people is stretching the point to breaking.
Both machines are overpriced but os 4 has much better features being implemented than morph os neither of these machines is as good or as powerful as the pc im using now and they never will be.
AOS4 isn't out yet, MorphOS you can't buy new because it is sold out at
the moment.
im still looking forward to my a1 though .if anything these machines could be the last amiga and amiga clone and we can just let the amiga name die and move on looking at it in reality why would you buy either. :-D :-? :-? :-? :-?
I don't mind letting the Amiga name die, to be honest the baggage of
the name is not exactly a good thing. What I am interested in is what
Hyperion have come up with in AmigaOS4.
-
I'm definitely an A1/OS4 person. I think that it has more potential (partially because of the name, but not completely) and I much prefer the OS, being based on the original AmigaOS.
That said, I wouldn't want to force anyone to use any OS. Use whichever one you feel happiest with.
-
@Marktime
:-D
Agreed.
But the point is calling people "liars" is interpreted ( these days at least ) as meaning
that they always lied and will always lie. Lying indicates some form of intent, now I would
not think that there is anyone on this planet who is over the age of 16 who
has not deliberate told a mistruth. But there is no point branding them
liars for the rest of their lives.
When posting about "facts" people should stick to the facts and not
their opinion of the facts.
So saying on the following occassions Amiga Inc knowingly lied to
the public:
* list of occassions with hopefully some evidence
...is as close to "facts" as you can get.
If I thought that Amiga Inc. were deliberately pulling an elaborate con
trick on potential customers then I would say so ( and have come close
to this in the past ). But they have little to do with AmigaOS4 as far
as I can make out ( opinion/point of view here ) so using that as a means
to muddy the water on what was a civilised debate up to now is a bit
disingenuous.
Actually at the moment I feel a bit sad for BBRV because they are unable
to meet what is clearly a significant demand for their product at the moment. On
the brink of all out victory - they stare down the jaws of defeat - or
at least a significant setback. I would hate to get so far and to have
had victory snatched from my fingers! Anyone who is crazy enough
to invest their financial future in this market deserves SOME respect
and that includes Hyperion, Eyetech, Genesi and ... erm ....
;-)
-
amigamad wrote:
The amigaone pop motherboard was an ibm desighn and no small company has the money to desighn something better than ibm the pegosis is desighned by ex phase 5 people if they were so bloody good how come phase 5 went bankrupt .
Because they made Amiga hardware.
-
Hey Rogue!
Good to hear from you. Don't worry about the rumours, people say crazy things all the time. Sometimes rumours are true, sometimes they are false.
(if someone wants to flame me now for harassing people, go ahead)
Nah, its all good :-D
We are all looking forward to the public demo of AmigaOS4, is it at the end of this month?
Any ideas on when the AmigaOS4 developer network will be set up? Will this be Hosted/Supported by AmigaInc or Hyperion, or by a different group?
Even if the ACM and Audio API were targeted for AmigaDE.. they should still be ported over to the AmigaOS4. We NEED this stuff. AHI only provides a basic audio interface, we need a full functional Audio API. And I don't think porting ALSA or OpenAL over does the job.
So email Fleecy and get him to send over the code :-D
-
We are down to the same old useless discussion here again!
People from one side have problems with people on the other side whilst they are guilty of the exact same thing.
But here are a couple of my two cents.
OS 4 couldn't be possibly as far as MorphOS because Hyperion started work much later on OS 4 than work started on MorphOS.
So yes MorphOS is allready available! That's logical if you look at the time frame.
Hyperion also have never failed to produce.
They also do this at great personal risk so they will not let this fail. That's way the big honcho at Hyperion was so smart to setup a contract wherein all OS 4 stuff would be transferred to them if something went wrong with AInc.
-
@Lando
This thread was going well until you started to make it about anything but the products themselves.
Go and troll somewhere else.
-
Because they made Amiga hardware.
AFAIK
They went bankrupt on the Mac side of their business. Two accelerators for the Mac took a long time to be cleared by Apple.
Considerable time and money went into those products and when no money was made, it was over.
-
> Just like to pose a question I need help with. Which is better in the longterm, Amiga One or a
> Pegasos board? I am looking to migrate (once again!) from the PC having come from an Amiga
> background (A4000, etc).
I'd go with the AmigaOne, as:
* It will probably be the only one capable of running AmigaOS (at least legally). I'm sure MOS will turn out okay as well, but the AmigaOS4 featurelist (http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4Features.php) (as well as the development team) impresses me quite a bit more. I'm sure someone here can point you in the direction of the MOS featurelist so you can make your own comparison.
* I think the AmigaOne, having a well-known brand name, has a better chance at market penetration.
There are quite a few of us around here who have already ordered an AmigaOne board, but we are always looking for more people ;-). You are most welcome to join us. After many years of stagnation, the Amiga is finally getting a significant upgrade. Together we can make this work. :-D
Kay
-
HMetal wrote:
@Lando
This thread was going well until you started to make it about anything but the products themselves.
Go and troll somewhere else.
I don't "troll" anywhere Ray, here included. And I resent you insinuating otherwise. I stated facts.
However it seems to be "en vogue" these days to label anyone who disagrees with you, or who's arguments you have no answer for, a "troll" and thus feel justified in dismissing everything they have to say out of hand.
Anyway, I'm through with this discussion. "Yawn" away... I'm sure all that activity at AInc must make you really tired...
-
Experience != Expertise.
--
In Gerald's case it IS expertise. He managed to:
1) Design dual CPU cards that include SCSI on
an extremely small board with 11 layers.
2) He managed to design the Pegasos, prove to
MAI that there are bugs they didn't even know about
and fix them, under MAI's name (the fix Eyetech used)
and Genesi's (April 1&2).
3) He is known to IBM's production managers by name.
Yes... He *IS* an expert.
-
You wish, the Teron PX (AmigaONE) was designed by Mentor Arc Incorporated (MAI) as an evaluation
board for the ArticiaS chipset. It later envolved into
the first Pegasos prototype and the current revision
Eyetech sells. IBM didn't touch that board.
-
I wonder who came up with that, although I can imagine...
I know where the thought originated, with me. But I did not say that ExecSG is based or taken from OpenVMS, only that the screenshot and data about it thus far reminded me of DEC's port of VMS to the Alpha and how they handled legacy code.
And take that as a compliment, I like VMS.
-
Lando wrote:
I don't "troll" anywhere Ray, here included. And I resent you insinuating otherwise. I stated facts.
Your opinion-based "facts" are nothing more than that -- opinion -- and whether they are based on your perception of a situation or otherwise, they have no place in a discussion about hardware and software merits.
-
@hmetal
Sounds like you are trying to give impression you are only one around knowing *The Truth* and thus other peoples opinions have no value. Sorry, you ain't the one, not even close... :-D :-D
And before someone comments.. Neither am I.. Nor I claim to be :-P
-
@JoannaK
Well JoannaK, since I work for Amiga Inc and I know these things, yes, I guess you could say I DO know "The Truth" and I know more than anyone who comes to this topic could ever bring to it -- except for maybe Bill or Fleecy themelves. So, if that was some attempt on your part to belittle me and amuse the onlookers, you just failed.
Regardless.. It really, in this instance, doesn't matter who knows what or what the opinion is on Amiga Inc., it still has no bearing on this topic.
In the end it is just another childish excuse/attempt to beat on Amiga Inc.
-
To *BELITTLE* you? Who do you think you are?
Bill Gates?
-
AmiGR wrote:
To *BELITTLE* you? Who do you think you are?
Bill Gates?
Splitting hairs are we? Go look up the meaning of "belittle." My comment makes no inference of being better than anyone.
-
@HMetal
I need only to point out and remind people about the facts.. AmigaInc is quite capable of making fools of themselves and their partners on their own. :-P
-
@Joanna
:roll: Incorrect and irrelevant to the topic.
-
@HMetal
My reply was directly connected to your previous accusation:
In the end it is just another childish excuse/attempt to beat on Amiga Inc.
So if AmigaInc's fumbles are off topic it was you who started it. :)
Personally, I consider this Aone-vs.Pegasos discussion quite pointeless at the moment cause Amiga-One has no teeth in comparision. Only when OS4 appears Aone has any value to me cause I don't need any more Linux systems (especially with such high price). What have I seen about MorphOS gives me clear impression it could become nice system with some finetuning and polishing.
So I have decided to get one of those 299$ machines (350Euros including Vat for europeans) Genesi are offering and making something I like to use. Currently I'm waiting mobo+cpu to arrive and then I need to find nice case and Ati-Radeon. All other parts I'm having here.
-
Hey Spidey, Nice Avvy !!
Thanks Agafaster! :-D :-D
Still nice to hear!!
Also a nice explaining about the PCI/AGP slot! :-)
Spidey
-
Thanks bud!
You're welcome friend :-D
Spidey
-
Hello dweebgeek,
Thanks everyone, A1 it is!
I'm glad you were able to make a decission in this hectic thread! :-D
As I said before: the wait for OS4 will be worthwhile! :-)
(I have good faith in Hyperion for this!)
In weanwhile: why don't you start collecting PPC software for your new system?! :-D
(Aminet, dealers, etc.)
Spidey
-
@Mr.Akey and Mr.Frieden
Could you comment about my earlier post in this thread, point by point? In mature and constructive way, like I did. No need to start flaming and calling me a troller. I am interested how you look at this, being on "the other side".
Was hoping some response but seems like im being ignored :-)
I have thought a lot about the situation past few months and I'd like to be proven wrong.
-
@JoannaK
"Sounds like you are trying to give impression you are only one around knowing *The Truth* and thus other peoples opinions have no value"
So basically you agree, Lando was giving opinions
and calling them facts.
-
@AmiGR
In Gerald's case it IS expertise. He managed to:
1) Design dual CPU cards that include SCSI on
an extremely small board with 11 layers.
Dual implies SMP. No one doubts that he achieved
the job at hand on an accelerator card.
Experience != expertise
2) He managed to design the Pegasos, prove to
MAI that there are bugs they didn't even know about
and fix them, under MAI's name (the fix Eyetech used)
So? I think you need to look up the definition of expert.
3) He is known to IBM's production managers by name.
ROFLMAO!!!!! So am I bud, so am I. Which production managers, now come on give me their names and Ill call them up and ask them. Ill also tell you what percentage of the IBM's "production managers" that
is with stats to back me up.
So what if he is known to some IBM production managers - I mean excuse me while I fall down on the floor and beg for forgiveness. Well I would, but
I've got to stop laughing first.
-
So? I think you need to look up the definition of expert.
No longer a drip under pressure.
(ex - no longer, spurt - a small amount of liquid forced out a small orifice 'a drip under pressure')
:-D
-
Buy one with a FRIGGIN OS!!!
(in other words NOT the A1. I suggest a Mac)
-
> Buy one with a FRIGGIN OS!!!
>
> (in other words NOT the A1. I suggest a Mac)
*The AmigaOne HAS a "friggin OS". It currently runs LinuxPPC, as well as MacOS (through MOL).
*The AmigaOne WILL get AmigaOS.
*By buying now, he will get AmigaOS4 for free when it comes out. If he waits until OS4 is finsihed, he will have to pay extra for it.
Kay
-
:roll:
-
@Hooligan_DCS
Hooligan_DCS wrote:
@Mr.Akey and Mr.Frieden
Could you comment about my earlier post in this thread, point by point? In mature and constructive way, like I did. No need to start flaming and calling me a troller.
Well, I can try. However, you must understand that there are some issues that I can't address and I certainly won't speak for or against our competition's product as I don't have any of their products for which to base a comparison. Now if they'd care to send me one.. (hey, I had to try didn't I? ;-))
Anyways, I'll answer what I quote:
I'd put it this way. AmigaOne without OS4 is practically useless.
I wouldn't quite put it this way. While it is currently useless as an amiga (being without the AmigaOS until the OS is released to run on it) it does presently run Linux. :-)
And judging by late silence from Amiga
We (Amiga) are quite busy but we, as you know, are not working directly on AmigaOS 4 nor are we the manufacturer of the AmigaOne. These are partner projects and we have a clause w.r.t to ownsership of AmigaOS 4.
Amiga's internal developers are working on the APIs that will embrace and extend the future of AmigaOS (but not the forthcoming AmigaOS 4.0) as well as working on AmigaDE/Anywhere content.
Hyperion folks can't even give an estimate when it will be ready, it doesn't look too good.
I think we've pretty much agreed that giving dates that might be overshot or missed deadlines is a bad thing given the slagging that we take for it, when unforseen delays occur.. Fear not, the silence is a good thing. It means that those developers are working their behinds off instead of fielding rumors and speculations about their efforts and activities.
I can't and won't speak for Hyperion and/or Eyetech so, you'll have to wait for one of their people to answer questions related to the status and timing of their products.
Meanwhile there are hundreds of Pegasos' floating around used by developers. And some of them I'd call "Keypeople of community". Those developers won't necessarily never do any good for A1/OS4.
I don't think you really have anything to worry about here. The developers who really want to make a difference, who see opportunity wherever it knocks, will either come back to developer for AmigaOS or may even develop for both operating systems.
My opinion, having developed software for many platforms; including AmigaOS, QNX RtP, Linux, FreeBSD, Windows and others long past) is this: Only the developers who have a vendetta/hate against one company or the other, or are indifferent to an API, will refuse to develop for the other OS.
Also, while waiting for OS4 to arrive, MOS gets better and more polished every day.
OS4 looks good on paper, MOS looks good now.
AmigaOne doesn't look good on paper, Pegasos2 does.
Paper specs, while possibly impressive, really mean nothing until the product is released. As you may have noticed lately, there are issues with hardware that can spring up and effect a change of plans.
It's your choice to buy whatever product you feel suits your needs best but I'd wait until both are available if you're really uncertain about one or the other. The final result(s) might surprise you, one way or the other.
And those two items are likely to arrive just about the same time (3rd quarter 2003 as I quessed
WHEN Peg2 and A1/OS4 arrives, there's (hopefully) quite nice set of software available for MOS, when developing for A1 only *begins*.
True, but the AmigaOne has the dinstinction of being a product based directly on the original AmigaOS with a newly rewritten ExecSG. Amiga has legacy and for what it's worth (as others call it) "the name" on its side. I can't speak for the efforts or motives of other companies.
Looking at the situation from this point of view, it's obvious who leaves the ring undefeated.
That depends on a huge number of yet unpredictable factors. There are many things, both visible and invisible that could shape this. If you're unsure of either side, sit on the fence until both are released and the dust settles.
Of course, you may also be in a position to buy both systems, as some others have said they would do. Though, my experience is that once you have chosen, unless you really dislike something about your first choice, odds are you won't buy the other system.
Right now, it might be too much of a gamble for some individuals to choose yet. If you aren't sure .. wait. Amiga's product WILL be delivered. And I mean ALL of the ones still promised -- yes, including the t-shirts (sorry Hooligan, had to appease the trolls :-))
Or you can buy an AmigaOne now and get your free OS (as Kay said) when it is released. :-)
My point of view only, fuel up the flamethrowers.
No need. You asked for information without being particularly inflammatory -- a class act.
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@Hmetal
Why should I (and about 800 others) pay extra copy of OS4 now alongside AmigaOne. AmigaInc still owes us free copies of it. Most likely I'll get one of those A1200+Blizzards people are soon selling while being busy upgrading to Pegasos-2.s :-)
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Honest, I want both.
pX
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downix wrote:
And take that as a compliment, I like VMS.
Saying "it reminds me of VMS" is something different than what I read into it. Saying "being based on OpenVMS" smells of theft, and like I said, ExecSG is a completely new kernel.
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First of all, thanks to Hmetal for a (quick) answer. I'm well aware that not everything can be said (doesn't necessarily have even answers!).
When I said it's "useless" I meant in Amiga-wise.. surely you understood. This an Amiga related site and most of the people are ONLY interest in the Amiga-part of A1, not Linux.
What we can all agree on, is that the forthcoming few months will be very interesting indeed. I myself, have already ordered $299 Pegasos, but have no objection in buying A1/OS4 _IF_ it's what have been promised.
You never know, I still don't have my Pegasos. When I get it, and use it a couple of months I may find unusable and sell it on ebay to get AmigaOne.
Or I may ditch this Windows-pc for good and have Pegasos and A1 here at use. I have spent so much money in hometheatre that a couple computers equals to flyshit in desert :-)
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@HMetal
A non-flammable answer to a non-flammable question. Very good.
I think it should be put out as a general policy of both
sides never to comment (and if commenting, always do
so as carefully courteusly as possible), about someone
elses product. Sounds more professional, and lessens the flames.
An interesting quote:
Amiga's internal developers are working on the APIs that will embrace and extend the future of AmigaOS (but not the forthcoming AmigaOS 4.0) as well as working on AmigaDE/Anywhere content.
This is interesting, and something almost completely
unsung, at least from the view of the general public.
I take it the "not for AOS4" refers to AOS5? I know
absolutely nothing about the "internal developers" of AInc.
How many are there? Are there any "famous" names
among them? AInc is like a closed shell to me in this
regard (which is OK, I suppose, only that it's so much
more difficult to grasp - I still have the "Internal
developers" of Amiga+Gateway making "good progress" in
terrifyingly clear memory. It's only with "official"
developers like the Frieden Brothers, that you can actually
get an idea of work being done. With shadowy and
nameless "internal developers", all is just a black box.)
Perhaps it would be a nice idea to have this progress
show somewhere - if for no other reason than to
show that AInc is not completely under the ice? (Note
that I have no access to CAM, nor developer support
network, and so might simply be off on this - but at any
rate, lifesigns are never a bad idea.)
.
SlimJim
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Hooligan_DCS wrote:
@Mr.Akey and Mr.Frieden
Could you comment about my earlier post in this thread, point by point? In mature and constructive way, like I did.
So?
My point of view only, fuel up the flamethrowers.
Still insisting on your constructiveness?
Other than that, I think Ray's posting sums it up quite nicely.
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Hello dweebgeek,
Well, I won't tell you which One to get, but I just sent a partial pre-payment to Eyetech, to hold a board for me.
AmigaOne! ....and One to rule them all!!!
-
Dual implies SMP. No one doubts that he achieved
the job at hand on an accelerator card.
What? Were dictionaries in short supply when you were growing up or something? Dual "implies" nothing. It has a specific meaning. A "dual CPU card" means a CPU card with two CPUs.
du:al
adj.
Composed of two usually like or complementary parts; double
Experience != expertise
ex·pert ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kspûrt)
n.
A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.
Having, involving, or demonstrating great skill, dexterity, or knowledge as the result of experience or training
ex·per·tise ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kspûr-tz)
n.
Expert advice or opinion.
Skill or knowledge in a particular area.
[French, from expert, experienced. See expert.]
So? I think you need to look up the definition of expert.
No need Dave, I just posted it again for you.
I posted it earlier for you as well, in a reply to one of your other ramblings, since you didn't seem to have grasped it's meaning yet. It still seems to have gone right over your head....
Tip: a basic grasp of the English language always helps when engaging in discussion on forums like this, "Bud".
"experts in the Amiga hardware field"
Which Phase 5 obviously were.
Facts, Dave, look it up.
ROFLMAO!!!!! So am I bud, so am I. Which production managers, now come on give me their names and Ill call them up and ask them. Ill also tell you what percentage of the IBM's "production managers" that
is with stats to back me up.
Go and lie down Dave, you're embarassing yourself...
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Yet more childish flamebait from Lando. :-D Actually Id dignify you with a response if you werent so obviously lacing your post with personal abuse.
Congrats for decrementing the signal/noise ratio yet
further.
If you care to repost without the childishness then
Ill answer. Not before.
-
It actually occurred to me that in some way MorphOS might actually be helping AmigaOS at the moment. OS4 is so late, that people would be leaving in even larger numbers if it weren't for this backup or something to do while waiting. Those apps that are now being developed for MorphOS will probably find their way to OS4 too (since the similarity of the API) and thus OS4 will benefit from a PowerPC Amiga-like OS being out there... without it, there would be nothing new to people develop with.
Now, if only we could all see all of this as a common community effort, with competiting companies and independent individuals for sure, but also a lot of common ground and shared history, we might really get to places...
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Hi jtsiren,
Looks like you've made lemonade. :-)
AmigaOne! Due soon, real soon, one less day now.
-
Boy oh boy. Frieden, you truly are a loudmouth and your arrogance is beyond all this. After Akey answered my questions properly, and I thanked for it, you wasn't even obligated to answer me. But no, you just can't seem to shut up. Had to do just what I asked not to do, behave immature.
A friendly advise.. stop posting anything. You really are not good at that. Or maybe next time ask Akey some advice.
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I am awaiting the arrival of the AmigaOne/OS4
since it preserves the original OS that I love
so much.
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amigamad wrote:
The amigaone pop motherboard was an ibm desighn and no small company has the money to desighn something better than ibm the pegosis is desighned by ex phase 5 people if they were so bloody good how come phase 5 went bankrupt .
Maybe because there was no market? AFAIK they sold quite many PPC boards for some years but then sales went down. Because there are no new Amigans you cant sell HW forever...
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PulsatingQuasar wrote:
AFAIK
They went bankrupt on the Mac side of their business. Two accelerators for the Mac took a long time to be cleared by Apple.
Considerable time and money went into those products and when no money was made, it was over.
Not really true. PPC boards for Amiga werent selling well enough anymore.
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Lando wrote:
ROFLMAO!!!!! So am I bud, so am I. Which production managers, now come on give me their names and Ill call them up and ask them. Ill also tell you what percentage of the IBM's "production managers" that
is with stats to back me up.
Go and lie down Dave, you're embarassing yourself...
Hey, I can't BELIEVE you don't understand what Dave means here. Let's just say that DaveP most probably DO know more IBM production managers than you do. Try looking for anyone named Dave P on amigabooks.org, followed by a search for that name (in quotes) and the word amiga on google. Like this: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Dave%20Pitcher%22+amiga
Now read the mozdev summary out loud to yourself 4 times. Who is embarassing himself?
Hi Dave, sorry to have blown your cover :-)
I have a certain feeling I need to keep the now legendary low profile after this one. Oh well, I'm beginning to enjoy that low profile :-D
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Maybe because there was no market? AFAIK they sold quite many PPC boards for some years but then sales went down. Because there are no new Amigans you cant sell HW forever...
This is nitpicking but... no new Amigans?
Then what do you call me? You can more or less see the time i've been in to Amiga(s) by the time I joined Amiga.org.
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Eric_Z wrote:
This is nitpicking but... no new Amigans?
Then what do you call me? You can more or less see the time i've been in to Amiga(s) by the time I joined Amiga.org.
Well, right, there are always new Amigans :) But for last years Amiga has been like dying village in Lappland. More villagers moving out than moving in. When there arent enough villagers supermarket closes its doors and even more vilalgers are moving out... Sad but true :-(
But this years looks much better :-D
-
Hey, Just to put a positive spin on all this:
Hi, Eric_Z. Welcome, and may your life as an Amigan be long and prosperous. :-D
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Hooligan_DCS wrote:
A friendly advise.. stop posting anything. You really are not good at that. Or maybe next time ask Akey some advice.
I can't help it if you don't like my replies.
As soon as you start posting in a mature manner, I will too. Until then...
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Karlos wrote:
Oh man, you sure asked the wrong question at a bad time...Let the flames/counterflames commence :-)
:-) Am I like the Oracle, or what?
I can't believe it. When we had no machines we moaned. Now we've got options to choose from we're still moaning...
-
Saying "it reminds me of VMS" is something different than what I read into it. Saying "being based on OpenVMS" smells of theft, and like I said, ExecSG is a completely new kernel.
It's also understandable how, someone repeating my original statement, could have evolved into an accusation of thievery. After all, a similar statement from Dave Haynie resulted in the accusations against MorphOS.
-
Hey, I can't BELIEVE you don't understand what Dave means here. Let's just say that DaveP most probably DO know more IBM production managers than you do.
Hey, what are you talking about?
I'm sure he DO. Since I don't know any. Nor did I claim to. Nor do I want to.
Try looking for anyone named Dave P on amigabooks.org
Why? He has his involvement in amigabooks.org in his signature.
, followed by a search for that name (in quotes) and the word amiga on google. Like this: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Dave%20Pitcher%22+amiga
Er... Ok, now what was your point again?
Oh, maybe I'm supposed to be impressed, was that it?
Now read the mozdev summary out loud to yourself 4 times.
I don't read things out loud unless I am reading to someone else. Maybe you need to read things four times before the information is stored in your brain, but thankfully I am somewhat more evolved than that. :-)
However, I still don't understand your point. I realise that English isn't your first language, so maybe you should explain it to someone else and then they can type it out for you.
Hi Dave, sorry to have blown your cover :-)
"Owner of AmigaBooks.org community authorship programme."
Yeah, he kept it well hidden, huh?
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Hello Atheist,
This place is cheap for parts in Vancouver:
http://www.hltechnology.com/ (http://www.hltechnology.com/)
cheap tower case (http://www.hltechnology.com/one_prod.php?pid=11092)
Know of any other place in Vancouver that has a good website and cheap parts (apart from ncix.com)?
-
@DaveP
You work for IBM?
-
Am I like the Oracle, or what?
I can't believe it. When we had no machines we moaned. Now we've got options to choose from we're still moaning...
Hehehe.. yeah. Thats human nature for ya!
A lack of logical and normal thinking. I submit two new terms.
Spockification: the process (taking quite a number of years I might add) whereby the insane human thought process is morphified into logical sane based thinking.
Spockified: the completion of that process. This means you have mastered logical and sane based thinking.
Succesfull progrnose: 1 per 1000. :-P :-P
Regards,
Remco Komduur
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@SlimJim
Well said and good suggestions.
It hasn't been announced anywhere but Fleecy has determined, even before the first CAM was released, that we will eventually release the CAM contents to the general public. He said after an issue is released, the previous issue should be opened up to the public. However, I believe (and you'll probably hate me for it ;-) but I pride myself on honesty) that two issues should pass before the third-last CAM issue is released to the public so as to underscore the value that Club members get.
In the end, Fleecy will decide what the period of revelation is but trust me, you will see what is in the CAM issues once CAM members have digested it. :-D
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@HMetal
Actually I agree with you, holding onto the data for 2 months is smarter than one. Gives a real incentive for first-adopter personalities to jump in. 1 month people will wait for, 2 months will drive many of them nuts.
-
Hello HMetal,
Could you send an email to Fleecy for me :-D
PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE!!! :-D
-
Guys, may I politely request that this conversation pick up in a new thread?
It's gotten a bit rough trying to follow the topic. Maybe a CAM thread :-P
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@Lando
Wow you just proved the rule that there are none so
blind as will not see.
Are you any closer to reputting your points without
silly insults? I'm looking forward to answering when
you manage it.
-
Hello olegil and Eric_Z
I've had my A2000 for 14 years, I'm sure my A1, will last just as long!! :-)
AmigaOne! Trodden but not forggotten!
-
1 Gig. ECC PC133 Registered 168PIN SDRAM
316.80 + 14.5% tax = 316.80 + 45.94 = $362.74 Can
or $247.4 USD
or 154.02 UKP
or 224.12 EU
Seems like a great deal to me. I'm gonna load my machine with 2 of them. (Not joking.)
My current machine has 1 Gig, w98se. I'm stuck with a DDR ECC Reg. 1 Gig., because this MB can't use it. Apparently 98 only uses 256, maybe 512, I bet bg doesn't even know.
Thanks Darth_X.
"The Computer Paper" is the best place to find local deals. I think it would be quite hard to beat this place!
I should have enough by October for my monster setup. :-)
I have to go AmigaOne because, I see in the future an A1 at the heart of a mainframe server, with hot swappable harddrives, where you could pull ALL of them out and stick in new ones, and on USB, all other devices, what more could you possibly want? (64 bit) :-)
Welcome to the OS that never sleeps!
AmigaOne! An OS ready for any challenge, from below!!! :-D :-D
-
A1 without a doubt! :-) :-D :-)
-
Aone All The Way
-
Wow, Lando. You really ARE dumb. This whole discussion started with YOU trying to impress US with the fact that Carda knows IBM production managers. DaveP commented that you should give him names and he would ask around and then tell you excactly HOW many percent of IBM production managers those people are. You said he was embarassing himself saying something like this. Then I comment that his email address in fact contains the word "ibm". Hmm, GUESS who is embarassing himself. Oh, and you're right. English is in fact my THIRD language, and I have german and japanese as fourth and fifth. Sadly, I am still struggling with Japanese. I do, however, feel I have more or less gotten to a point where I can write simple english sentences and expect to be understood. Your ignorance amazes me, though. Like, kaWOW, dude. :-P
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@olegil
Nothing wrong with your English mate - its pukka! :-)
-
As soon as you start posting in a mature manner, I will too. Until then...
I can not find out how to do more mature post than i did earlier.
-
Arigatou gosaimazu, Rudei-san :-)
-
Arigatou gosaimazu, Rudei-san
Right back at ya! :-)
Rudei!
-
olegil wrote:
Wow, Lando. You really ARE dumb.
No I'm not.
This whole discussion started with YOU trying to impress US with the fact that Carda knows IBM production managers.
No it didn't. I never mentioned either Carda or IBM production managers. It appears you are confused. Again.
DaveP commented that you should give him names and he would ask around and then tell you excactly HOW many percent of IBM production managers those people are.
No he didn't. He was asking someone else.
You said he was embarassing himself saying something like this.
Yes.
Then I comment that his email address in fact contains the word "ibm".
Which I already knew. Hence my difficulty in understanding what point you were trying to make.
Hmm, GUESS who is embarassing himself.
Well, you it would seem. It appears you have me confused with someone else.
Oh, and you're right. English is in fact my THIRD language, and I have german and japanese as fourth and fifth. Sadly, I am still struggling with Japanese. I do, however, feel I have more or less gotten to a point where I can write simple english sentences and expect to be understood.
5 out of 10.
Your ignorance amazes me, though. Like, kaWOW, dude. :-P
I see.
At least I can read the names of the posts to which I'm replying...