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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: Roj on July 22, 2012, 07:14:46 AM
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...Use, Test, and true Cancel gadgets on preference windows.
Apply doesn't count. It's just an OK gadget that leaves the preferences window open. Cancel? They should just change that to say Close. Opening a preference window, making changes, hitting Apply, and then hitting Cancel should revert to the settings before the preferences were opened. It doesn't. It's largely useless.
Just for example, my father has hearing and vision problems. When he visits and wants to watch a movie, I turn on subtitles and set the subtitle font size to something ridiculously large for him. If I forget to change the settings back to normal, my wife won't watch movies because subtitles ruin the show for her. She's not savvy enough with tech to change the settings herself*, so she just does something else instead.
There are many other reasons to include gadgets that promote experimentation with settings. But for some reason, Microsoft deems experimentation too dangerous for their userbase...I guess.
*I've tried teaching her, but it's more than she cares to learn. You know how that goes I'm sure.
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... Two state icons of arbritary size and folder icons. They help you distinguish important files from standard ones and tell you visually what is about to happen once you doubleclick on them.
... a button to bring windows to the back (ALT+ESC is a cludge).
... a menu bar on maximized windows that you can click by dring the mouse all the way up.
... a way to select multiple menu items, without closing the menu intermittently.
Intuition was superior!
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But for some reason, Microsoft deems experimentation too dangerous for their userbase...I guess.
Most users would be too confused by it. undo/redo functionality would be better.
If you want different settings for different users then you should setup different users.
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Intuition was superior!
is
Microsoft's improvements to their GUI over the last fifteen years are... changing the taskbar so there is no text by default, and making everything look a bit different (in such a way that I've had three different window designs on screen at the same time under Windows, and it wasn't obvious which one was active). There have been no functional changes at all (I don't include "mouse gestures" as they are a different way of getting to the same functionality)
The annoying thing is that Linux doesn't have any of this stuff either, although the GUI is amazingly more consistent.
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Most users would be too confused by it. undo/redo functionality would be better.
I don't see how it is confusing - however Windows doesn't have undo functionality in prefs either. AmigaOS has, by default, in all system Prefs apps, "Reset to defaults", "Last saved" and "Restore".
Most people I've worked with click "Apply" before clicking "OK", despite me saying the "Apply" step is unnecessary. The implication of the design is that "Apply" applies the settings and "OK" doesn't. That's confusing. As is Microsoft's insistence on requesters that have "Yes" and "No" as an answer, resulting in long paragraphs of explanation as to what each does, when changing the button text would have been more logical for the user.
If you want different settings for different users then you should setup different users.
Agreed, for the scenario given, different user accounts is the correct solution.
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But for some reason, Microsoft deems experimentation too dangerous for their userbase...I guess.
Or perhaps they just dont care?
Its a different OS, its doing things different. And I guess by now there are more things in Windows that AmigaOS lacks than the other way around.
Dont get me wrong, I love AmigaOS (3.x). Its (still) usable and I love the responsiveness and its efficiency. I dont 'love' Windows, I just dont hate it as much as I used to, because it did evolve quite well.
But hey thats just my opinion.
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The annoying thing is that Linux doesn't have any of this stuff either, although the GUI is amazingly more consistent.
Linux has nothing that can be called "the GUI".
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Linux has nothing that can be called "the GUI".
True dat. Though, I suppose there is twm :D
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...Use, Test, and true Cancel gadgets on preference windows.
Apply doesn't count. It's just an OK gadget that leaves the preferences window open. Cancel? They should just change that to say Close. Opening a preference window, making changes, hitting Apply, and then hitting Cancel should revert to the settings before the preferences were opened. It doesn't. It's largely useless.
I couldn't agree with you more. This is a major flaw in Windows. I'm just glad I have my Amigas to remind me of how preferences should be handled.
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... Two state icons of arbritary size and folder icons. They help you distinguish important files from standard ones and tell you visually what is about to happen once you doubleclick on them.
... a button to bring windows to the back (ALT+ESC is a cludge).
... a menu bar on maximized windows that you can click by dring the mouse all the way up.
... a way to select multiple menu items, without closing the menu intermittently.
Intuition was superior!
... screens.
... active window doesn't have to be frontmost.
You'd think these would be mind-bogglingly obvious UI features on all platforms by now, but they're not.
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I'm just disappointed that no version of Windows has ever been able to recall multi monitor settings if you don't keep all monitors active.
Sometimes I only need one monitor, but if I disable my extra displays, it just resets the desktop coordinate to default.
I've had to deal with this problem across many versions of the OS and dozens of different computers.
It's just flabbergasting, especially with laptops.
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What really peees me off about Windows is the download window that opens when you download something. Then you have to close it manually which is highly annoying. Especially as it flashes until you click on it :rant:
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I find it annoying that downloads aren't automatically put in the downloads folder.
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Two things I miss when on Windows:
1) Shift + Backspace to delete a string of text behind me
2) Drag and drop into file requesters! This is a big one, if I find a file using Workbench/Ambient I can then open a file requester in an app and just drag it onto it and it will load it. In Windows I have to navigate to that file a second time, even though I may have the folder already open on my screen, very annoying.
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What really peees me off about Windows is the download window that opens when you download something. Then you have to close it manually which is highly annoying. Especially as it flashes until you click on it :rant:
There's a checkbox you can check so that it automatically closes after the download is finished, at least for web browsers.
I find it annoying that downloads aren't automatically put in the downloads folder.
Stuff automatically downloads to whatever folder you choose.
I have my browsers and torrent client set to download everything to the desktop, so that I can do what I need to do with them, and then either delete them or move them to another folder for storage.
I hate having to go hunting for something I just downloaded.
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@danwood
Drag and drop into the application itself?
The only Amiga-like thing I find myself doing inadvertently in Windows (and UNIX variants) is typing "list" in a console.
Screen drag is a feature I miss, but it's more akin to the Amiga/Mac view of the computer-as-an-appliance than the Windows view of the computer-as-a-computer.
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I always felt that Microsoft's main problem with their OS is that they keep feeling that they have to change the whole way it works every other major release...
If the way it's working is working for people, you don't HAVE to change it...
But I think they feel people won't buy it unless it's significantly different.
I mean, be honest, how many people think the "Ribbon" is better??? ;-)
desiv
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Two things I miss when on Windows:
1) Shift + Backspace to delete a string of text behind me
tried shift + home?
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Intuition was superior!
is
Microsoft's improvements to their GUI over the last fifteen years are... changing the taskbar so there is no text by default, and making everything look a bit different (in such a way that I've had three different window designs on screen at the same time under Windows, and it wasn't obvious which one was active). There have been no functional changes at all (I don't include "mouse gestures" as they are a different way of getting to the same functionality)
The annoying thing is that Linux doesn't have any of this stuff either, although the GUI is amazingly more consistent.
Intuition is not at all superior. It's lagging behind the times badly, and I find Windows way easier to use. Sad, but true :(
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Intuition is not at all superior. It's lagging behind the times badly, and I find Windows way easier to use. Sad, but true :(
I'll never agree with that as long as the OS dictates that the active window be the frontmost window. ;)
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Not sure about other OS's, but why the hell in Windows can I not save preference "Presets" like in Workbench? These come in handy no end if changing your display or display resolution/overscan, or printer even, or a larger font as in what 1st poster was talking about.
Also, a preset saving facility would be fantastic for network settings (thinking of laptops here). But no, have to repeatedly change IP settings to and from where every I may be using my laptop.
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Two things I miss when on Windows:
1) Shift + Backspace to delete a string of text behind me
2) Drag and drop into file requesters! This is a big one, if I find a file using Workbench/Ambient I can then open a file requester in an app and just drag it onto it and it will load it. In Windows I have to navigate to that file a second time, even though I may have the folder already open on my screen, very annoying.
As for no. 2 Albert of Atariage website fame once told me that OSX does this too. As Microcock spend more time copying Apple than fixing their pathetic OS if it isn't in Win7 it will be in Win8 for sure.
I'd check but I am not stupid enough to downgrade from XP Pro SP2 to some god awful mess of a kernal like Win7/Vista/Server2008 etc. DIRT!!!!
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I always felt that Microsoft's main problem with their OS is that they keep feeling that they have to change the whole way it works every other major release...
If the way it's working is working for people, you don't HAVE to change it...
But I think they feel people won't buy it unless it's significantly different.
I mean, be honest, how many people think the "Ribbon" is better??? ;-)
Ugh, yes. This is the #1 reason I'm still using XP...
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its been years and Amiga does not have Visual Studio equivelent.
i love to drag and drop and have webbrowser facilities or calander controls.
Windows GUI is great it even has accessability options and voice/speak all apps, even automate every app via script as default. not every Amiga app can be controlled via script.
i can set internet connections in commandline !
even set/unset partitions, hidden or not via commandline.
i can even slipstream all windows patches into one Install CD/DVD, with my own apps !
There are alot of hidden capability under the hood believe me.
Amiga does not even have equivelent of windows gadgets or WB as html browser.
windows has capability running more than one desktop at same time !
Virtual desktops, the install image format is even VM ready.
every setup.exe has full script and automated control/unzip/install/creation capability.
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@roj
Nothing in Windows prevents it. Window z-order is independent of window input focus.
@paul1981
For better or worse (better IMHO), Microsoft went the way of the registry with the introduction of OLE. Many .NET application use XML-based configuration files, though.
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its been years and Amiga does not have Visual Studio equivelent.
i love to drag and drop and have webbrowser facilities or calander controls.
Windows GUI is great it even has accessability options and voice/speak all apps, even automate every app via script as default. not every Amiga app can be controlled via script.
i can set internet connections in commandline !
even set/unset partitions, hidden or not via commandline.
i can even slipstream all windows patches into one Install CD/DVD, with my own apps !
There are alot of hidden capability under the hood believe me.
Amiga does not even have equivelent of windows gadgets or WB as html browser.
windows has capability running more than one desktop at same time !
Virtual desktops, the install image format is even VM ready.
every setup.exe has full script and automated control/unzip/install/creation capability.
Well, yes, those are features you get when you have thousands of paid developers working on a system. And the Amiga has a good many of them, similar workarounds, or could have a good many of them without modifying the core OS - just adding programs. Not bad for a platform with negligible investment in the last 15 years! And the other features we're discussing in this thread are areas where we're still ahead. Madness! :)
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Amiga OS also lacks the ability to phone home to a corporate headquarters.
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@roj
Nothing in Windows prevents it. Window z-order is independent of window input focus.
I've got a freeware tool that can lock any window to front, but it's awkward to use. It's the only way I've found so far to keep inactive windows on top of the window I'm working in.
Is there an easier way that you know of?
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Largely because Amiga lacks a corporate headquarters. AI even had trouble paying it's $25/month hosting fees...
Amiga OS also lacks the ability to phone home to a corporate headquarters.
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And windows still lacks: A good web browser built in (IE is always years behind the times), easily used multi workspaces (like Ubuntu classic), a good built in media player, well designed interface as aqua kicks it in the balls everytime. Sometimes I wonder how they make money.
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Microsoft is either destroying browser competition and then legally prevented from competing or it's not doing enough. Love 'em or hate 'em, Microsoft played a key role in making computing ubiquitous throughout the "developed" world.
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I imagine IBM might have had something to do with it too :)
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And windows still lacks: A good web browser built in (IE is always years behind the times), easily used multi workspaces (like Ubuntu classic), a good built in media player, well designed interface as aqua kicks it in the balls everytime. Sometimes I wonder how they make money.
Simple: For most people Winblows works well enough, allowing them to do what they want. Browsers and media players are easily downloaded and installed, so that's no problem either.
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Just for example, my father has hearing and vision problems. When he visits and wants to watch a movie, I turn on subtitles and set the subtitle font size to something ridiculously large for him. If I forget to change the settings back to normal, my wife won't watch movies because subtitles ruin the show for her. She's not savvy enough with tech to change the settings herself*, so she just does something else instead.
You should not have to change settings each time, that why Windows has user logins to keep different settings for each user separately.
Create a login for each user and set them with the settings you want, switch user login when a different person uses the system.
good luck
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@runequester
Nah, the revolution occurred in spite of IBM. The publishing of the PC BIOS was really an oops.
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I'm annoyed how slow windows has grown. At work we still use XP, win7 should come at the end of this year.
On some 2.4Ghz Core2 IBM laptop evertything is a little bit like slow motion. The CPU performance does not seem to be enough for fluent word processing. Luckily coding in text editor (I use notepad++) is still fast. Web browsing is not much faster than on SAM, etc.
Well, I hope I get new HW for win7. The GPU of this sh*t can only output 1650x1000 or something, not good enough to use big LCD display for coding.
On our tester PCs we have more CPU performance, but because windows still can not cope well with serial devices, when a lot of instrumentation control is ongoing, that HW is even slower than this laptop. CPU looks idle but something is causing the system to crawl (I suspect some USB drivers put kernell to it's knees). And windows on those Agilent(etc) scopes/analyzers etc... it's amazing that they still use it. Wait minutes for the meter to boot, wait after every button press for the meter to react....
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You should not have to change settings each time, that why Windows has user logins to keep different settings for each user separately.
Create a login for each user and set them with the settings you want, switch user login when a different person uses the system.
good luck
That could "fix" the problem, but it's neither a handy nor pretty way to do it. If I were to create an account for everyone who interacts with my Windows system and wants even a minor, custom setting for anything, I could wind up with over 25 accounts. Yuck.
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@danwood
Drag and drop into the application itself?
Works in apps that choose to support it, sadly, not all do, or they have inconsistent behaviour, dragging a file into an open Wordpad window results in the icon being embedded in the text Window, not the text itself!
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Reading some comments here I cant help but think you are all still using a very old version of Windows. Some of you are even comparing it to AmigaOS, which is plain ridiculous. For example; okay, so Windows lacks a way to save multiple sets of preferences for videoplayers, in the way the Amiga does when saving screenmode prefs, for example. But do you all realise its not even possible to play back any modern video on an Amiga, even without subtitles? Windows may not be perfect, and for sure is not much 'fun' to use (like AmigaOS) but it IS the most advanced, complete and evolved operating system around these days. And Windows7 is very speedy indeed on my 2006 pc. I even use IE9 and I think its alright.
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Reading some comments here I cant help but think you are all still using a very old version of Windows. Some of you are even comparing it to AmigaOS, which is plain ridiculous. For example; okay, so Windows lacks a way to save multiple sets of preferences for videoplayers, in the way the Amiga does when saving screenmode prefs, for example. But do you all realise its not even possible to play back any modern video on an Amiga, even without subtitles? Windows may not be perfect, and for sure is not much 'fun' to use (like AmigaOS) but it IS the most advanced, complete and evolved operating system around these days. And Windows7 is very speedy indeed on my 2006 pc. I even use IE9 and I think its alright.
TL;DR: It's fast. That should be good enough.
This standpoint was first taken in 1987, and I continue to respectfully disagree. Speed is nice, but by itself it can't make up for some of the missing features pointed out earlier.
I'm posting this on a Win7 i7 GTX580 system. The speed makes me happy when I'm running games and applications, but when I return to Windows to get work done, speed simply isn't enough.
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Well, perhaps you should go back and read my entire post. I wasnt commenting on the speed.
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Well, perhaps you should go back and read my entire post. I wasnt commenting on the speed.
I hate picking posts apart, but here goes...
Reading some comments here I cant help but think you are all still using a very old version of Windows. Some of you are even comparing it to AmigaOS, which is plain ridiculous.
We're not comparing the two. We're simply saying Windows still lacks specific features. My mini-van has several features that my Camaro lacks. Am I comparing the two? No. I'm saying my Camaro would be improved with these features. Please don't take our discussion to extremes and then use that to try to make us look foolish. It's bad form.
For example; okay, so Windows lacks a way to save multiple sets of preferences for videoplayers, in the way the Amiga does when saving screenmode prefs, for example. But do you all realise its not even possible to play back any modern video on an Amiga, even without subtitles?
This is more a speed issue than a shortcoming of the OS. Since the Amiga hardware was incapable of playing back video, few developers saw a point in implementing playback with subtitles.
Windows may not be perfect, and for sure is not much 'fun' to use (like AmigaOS)
That's part of what we're talking about here, and we're discussing some of the reasons why.
but it IS the most advanced, complete and evolved operating system around these days.
...and on this point we disagree.
And Windows7 is very speedy indeed on my 2006 pc. I even use IE9 and I think its alright.
Well, perhaps you should go back and read my entire post. I wasnt commenting on the speed.
Speedy. Yes. It's a comment you've made on speed.
I'm not interested in IE9, so I'll let others discuss that in another thread.
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NOBODY CARES!!!
With all this mutual backslapping of feature x or y is missing from windows, you guys seem to be missing the truth of the matter which is nobody gives a flying feck.
Which OS your running doesn't matter to joe public its the application that run upon it that people care about, if they have a web browser that allows them to go on myface, an office package that works etc, they are happy. Hell most people seem to get most of there personal computer needs from phones which have minimal OS functionality.
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People in general don't appreciate computing as they used to.
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@roj, First off, I find it ironic that you accuse me of bad form. You replied to a comment I made with a 'TL;DR', then only commented on the very last and least important line of my post. Thats just plain rude.
Anyway, thanks for your lengthy explanation of the purpose of this thread. I wasnt intending to make anyone look foolish. Just wanted to point out that comparing Windows to AmigaOS makes no sense. And Im glad you agree with me there.
Last, I dont expect many people on an Amiga forum to agree with me when I write positive things about Windows or IE9. Its just that some people seem to have a very biased, even short-sighted opinion on anything Microsoft-related. Thats why I made my post.
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NOBODY CARES!!!
I do. Thanks for calling me "nobody". How very polite.
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@roj, First off, I find it ironic that you accuse me of bad form. You replied to a comment I made with a 'TL;DR', then only commented on the very last and least important line of my post. Thats just plain rude.
Anyway, thanks for your lengthy explanation of the purpose of this thread. I wasnt intending to make anyone look foolish. Just wanted to point out that comparing Windows to AmigaOS makes no sense. And Im glad you agree with me there.
Last, I dont expect many people on an Amiga forum to agree with me when I write positive things about Windows or IE9. Its just that some people seem to have a very biased, even short-sighted opinion on anything Microsoft-related. Thats why I made my post.
...and that's why I don't like picking posts apart. Things get changed and twisted too easily.
You mean it's a coincidence, not an irony. ;)
I took your post to mean "Since the Amiga can't play back video, and doesn't have the speed of modern PCs, we should simply dismiss everything about the Amiga; throw the baby out with the bath water, as it were.
I didn't mean anything personal with the TL;DR header. It was just my way of shortening my summary. And I didn't just refer to the last line. I read and commented on every line in your post. You referenced speed twice in the post, not just at the end.
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What we are seeing is the decline of the desktop computer as a "personal computer." Businesses will use desktops, gamers, professional programmers, etc will use desktops, but your casual user is drifting away from desktops. Tablets and smart phones along with smart TVs are the future for the hoi polloi.
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You know what really pees me off about Windows? The auto tags that show up when you roll the mouse pointer over things. Everything from the clock to every other possible object currently on the screen irrelevant of what you are doing. It absolutely drives me mental! Right now my pointer is randomly sitting on a smiley and a tag has risen to tell me the object my pointer is sitting on is a smiley - well, derr... :mad:
Anyone know of a way to turn it off?
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@danwood
You can drag onto Wordpad's toolbar, but I agree it's inconsistent. Wordpad behaves like a 90's OLE demonstration. (Wordpad in Windows 7 is quite nice, though.)
You can often drag objects into text boxes and get a text representation, but that's also up to the developer. Windows is flexible, and its predominantly open API leads to wide variation in features and little adherence to UI guidelines.
Re: common dialogs (Open, Save As, etc.), they're usually just Explorer views, and apart from the special file selection behavior, they behave just like any other Explorer view.
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@Kesa
You could address the root cause of those accessibility features and cure the blind. Wait....
Somewhere in the back of mind there's a hint of a memory re: disabling tooltips globally, but it would only apply to applications that adhere to standards. Most do not.
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Different operating system, different target audience, and different issues.
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What we are seeing is the decline of the desktop computer as a "personal computer." Businesses will use desktops, gamers, professional programmers, etc will use desktops, but your casual user is drifting away from desktops. Tablets and smart phones along with smart TVs are the future for the hoi polloi.
Keep saying that, maybe you can make it come true by wishing hard enough.
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Windows is pretty great, I've used daily every version starting with Win3.1 back in the mid-90s. For the most part, I've had no complaints about new versions (except for the bloat of Vista.)
(Haven't tried Win8 yet, though, waiting for the $40 upgrade deal to come out.)
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Windows is pretty great, I've used daily every version starting with Win3.1 back in the mid-90s.
Really?
I was using Windows before 3.1 (started with Windows 286), and while it was fun to play with, I wouldn't use the word great.. And I did a LOT of work with 3.1. ( and 3.11 - WFW networking was fun...)
At least not until possibly 98 2nd Edition.. That was really good...
(I can see people thinking 95 was great, but I didn't think it was there yet..)
Yeah, 2k was very stable, but there was too much it couldn't do for my tastes..
I'd class XP as a really great OS tho... Once they got past the initial compatibility issues (got the vendors to update their drivers.. ) that is..
That said, I think Workbench 2.0 was pretty far ahead of the competition from MS...
desiv
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I remember the exciting days of trying to play a game, and the computer insisting that the 16 meg's of RAM in your machine were totally not enough to run a game requiring 2 meg's to work.
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insisting that the 16 meg's of RAM in your machine were totally not enough to run a game requiring 2 meg's to work.
Was that EMS or XMS? ;-)
desiv
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.......Soul......;-)
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was that emms or xmms? ;-)
desiv
speak not the names that must not be spoken
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But do you all realise its not even possible to play back any modern video on an Amiga
What is modern video?
In most households I believes videos are DVDs. But surely you mean blue ray?
Watching videos is not any core use of a desktop computer, but I think Amigas can play almost all videos in our household (except some few HD video files).
To me windows is a very poor platform to run SW on. But it has most of the needed SW, that's why also I have to use it at work, I never use it at home any more (unless I set up some emulator to PLAY with).
I think there are very few (perhaps none?) things where Amigas OS (or MOS) limits Amigas usability. It's the lack of SW that is the most usual problem, then the lack of MIPS.
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Reading some comments here I cant help but think you are all still using a very old version of Windows. Some of you are even comparing it to AmigaOS, which is plain ridiculous. For example; okay, so Windows lacks a way to save multiple sets of preferences for videoplayers, in the way the Amiga does when saving screenmode prefs, for example. But do you all realise its not even possible to play back any modern video on an Amiga, even without subtitles? Windows may not be perfect, and for sure is not much 'fun' to use (like AmigaOS) but it IS the most advanced, complete and evolved operating system around these days. And Windows7 is very speedy indeed on my 2006 pc. I even use IE9 and I think its alright.
It's only fast because they "threw hardware at it", lighter OSes run rings around Windows speed-wise on modern hardware.
I'd argue OS X is more advanced and complete personally, but each to their own.
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Really?
I was using Windows before 3.1 (started with Windows 286), and while it was fun to play with, I wouldn't use the word great.. And I did a LOT of work with 3.1. ( and 3.11 - WFW networking was fun...)
At least not until possibly 98 2nd Edition.. That was really good...
(I can see people thinking 95 was great, but I didn't think it was there yet..)
Yeah, 2k was very stable, but there was too much it couldn't do for my tastes..
I'd class XP as a really great OS tho... Once they got past the initial compatibility issues (got the vendors to update their drivers.. ) that is..
That said, I think Workbench 2.0 was pretty far ahead of the competition from MS...
desiv
Totally agree, even "Mr Windows" Paul Thurrott (a former Amiga head) agrees that Windows 3.1 was "a joke" (in his words) compared to the Amiga.
My first Windows PC ran Win 98 (first edition) and it was a nightmare to use, I'd get BSODs at least a few times each day, I ended up going back to my A1200 as my main machine for a few more years, it wasn't until XP that I started using a Windows PC as my main computer.
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I'm just glad they got rid of the flop up windows ball menu thing that listed the apps folder, the one that was formerly known as start. It was just an annoyance.
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It's been 20 years, and the Amiga still doesn't support...
...multi-core (SMP)
...dual head (yes, multiple screens on the same gfx card)
...memory protection/ressource tracking (yes, you'd think by now every OS would suppport it ?)
...multi user support
What's more constructive for the Amiga ? Pointing out (eventual) Windows flaws ? Pointing out Amiga's own flaws ?
I'm not sure keeping saying Windows suck will improve the Amiga... Maybe some of you think it does, but it's not the way it works... Apple is now the king before they stopped caring about Windows. Certainly not by keeping on insulting Windows...
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It's been 20 years, and the Amiga still doesn't support...
...multi-core (SMP)
...dual head (yes, multiple screens on the same gfx card)
...memory protection/ressource tracking (yes, you'd think by now every OS would suppport it ?)
...multi user support
What's more constructive for the Amiga ? Pointing out (eventual) Windows flaws ? Pointing out Amiga's own flaws ?
I'm not sure keeping saying Windows suck will improve the Amiga... Maybe some of you think it does, but it's not the way it works... Apple is now the king before they stopped caring about Windows. Certainly not by keeping on insulting Windows...
Amiga doesn't need every feature Windows has, it's meant to be a real personal computer and not a "cloud" computer. And Windows doesn't need sympathy but AmigaOS does :knuddel:
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It's been 20 years, and the Amiga still doesn't support...
...multi-core (SMP)
...dual head (yes, multiple screens on the same gfx card)
...memory protection/ressource tracking (yes, you'd think by now every OS would suppport it ?)
...multi user support
What's more constructive for the Amiga ? Pointing out (eventual) Windows flaws ? Pointing out Amiga's own flaws ?
I'm not sure keeping saying Windows suck will improve the Amiga... Maybe some of you think it does, but it's not the way it works... Apple is now the king before they stopped caring about Windows. Certainly not by keeping on insulting Windows...
If I held out any hope that the Amiga and its descendants still had a snowball's chance I never would've posted this topic. At this point I'd just like to see some of the things that made Amigas so comfortable get recognition and be implemented on Windows. Although I'm sure that's equally pointless.
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What's more constructive for the Amiga ? Pointing out (eventual) Windows flaws ? Pointing out Amiga's own flaws ?.
Constructive for the Amiga?
I'm not expecting anyone to do anything to AmigaOS as a result of this thread. ;-)
I still use 3.1...
It's (for me) not meant to be constructive or destructive.
Just a comparison of different features sets between the 2...
desiv
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Totally agree, even "Mr Windows" Paul Thurrott (a former Amiga head) agrees that Windows 3.1 was "a joke" (in his words) compared to the Amiga.
You have a link to that quote? Might make for an interesting read.
I'm just glad they got rid of the flop up windows ball menu thing that listed the apps folder, the one that was formerly known as start. It was just an annoyance.
With the metric shyt-tonne of programs I have installed on my system the Start menu is a welcome beast for organization. Now I have to have every single program plastered across the task bar or thrown around "Metro." Or I can just clutter up my desktop with a shyt-tonne of icons, which is actually currently set to not show icons.
Ah, well. I guess this technological troglodyte will have to get dragged kicking and screaming into the "future." Or use something else. Ideally, by the time I have to support Windows 8 in the business environment I will be out of this profession.
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I'm just glad they got rid of the flop up windows ball menu thing that listed the apps folder, the one that was formerly known as start. It was just an annoyance.
Yeah, now they just have a full-screen pop-up that lists the apps folder in vastly larger icons and wastes massive amounts of screen space. I can see how that's going to be a lot less annoying.
Ah, well. I guess this technological troglodyte will have to get dragged kicking and screaming into the "future." Or use something else. Ideally, by the time I have to support Windows 8 in the business environment I will be out of this profession.
That's why I'm keeping an eye on Haiku... (http://www.haiku-os.org[/url)
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Besides there's no reason the amiga GUI features couldn't be built in to something else. Im still astounded there's not a proper, full featured counterpart to KDE and Gnome (especially with the path Gnome 3 is taking)
(AmiWM is neat and all, but veeery feature-incomplete)
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@warpdesign
>What's more constructive for the Amiga ? Pointing out
>(eventual) Windows flaws ? Pointing out Amiga's own flaws ?
1) we must not blindly mimic windows, we must avoid it's mistakes
2) we need to be happy what we already have, otherwise this is sad hobby
3) we must not forget to improve things, look what is done elsewhere and do it better
> Apple is now the king before they stopped caring about
> Windows. Certainly not by keeping on insulting Windows...
Apple is the king of insulting windows. Just check official Apple adverts from youtube.
But the the reason for their success is that they are different than windows. ((THEY have proper multiuser support, security, stability, etc.)) They focus on doing things in smarter way, instead of just selling 99% sh*t to silly companies & people. (btw. MS is far better in HW than in SW, IMHO. ;-) )
(It would be pretty interesting if one day MS designed cell phone is best with meego SW) :-D
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It's been 20 years, and the Amiga still doesn't support...
Amiga wasn' t really developed since 1994, so there is small wonder it doesn' t support all you could wish for.
Pointing out (eventual) Windows flaws ? Pointing out Amiga's own flaws ?
If Windows had just learned a few lessons from Amiga, it might be the best OS there is. Unfortunately many of the resources that where poured into the development of the GUI of Windows were wasted. Due to a bad styleguide.
I own a copy of the "Windows User Experience" book from Microsoft press. It`s three times as thick as the Amiga User Interface Style Guide and is written poorly by comparison.
I'm not sure keeping saying Windows suck will improve the Amiga...
Amiga will not improve. Maybe AROS will, but I am not sure. You may hope for some up to date software and maybe some hardware, but there are no resources for real improvements that will benefit Joe Random.
Windows will change substancially, but it seems that they "improve" it for a different target audience than us: Sony Tristar, Time Warner, Intel, ASUS, D ELL, HP and Microsoft.
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Ideally, by the time I have to support Windows 8 in the business environment I will be out of this profession.
I said that when XP came out... and guess what?
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I said that when XP came out... and guess what?
Things are a bit different for me. I was using XP starting with the betas and was extremely impressed, so XP wasn't a game-stopper for me. I was appalled at Vista and happy to learn it wouldn't last long. And as much as I despise the Vista user interface was has perpetuated into 7, I would be happy to stick with 7 for a while and relegate the advanced functionality I need to use -- which the GUI makes more distant -- to command line rather than this abomination which is Windows 8.
As well, I have more long-term business options available to me within the next 18 months, so I don't have to stay in this field for much longer. And there's always the chance of falling back on my Solaris/Linux experience. Right now, though, I'm leveraging my virtualization knowledge more and more.
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You have a link to that quote? Might make for an interesting read.
.
It was on an episode of Windows Weekly podcast iirc, can't remember the episode number sadly, but it was sometimes last summer.
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I think there are very few (perhaps none?) things where Amigas OS (or MOS) limits Amigas usability. It's the lack of SW that is the most usual problem, then the lack of MIPS.
Very nicely said!
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I would have said that all operating systems limit their users in some way, shape or form. What the AMiga lacks is the basic tools that developers need to develop software in and a market for developers to sell those products in once they.
There are more iOS, OS X, and MS Windows users in your typical shopping mall than there are Amiga users in the world...
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FWIW, I do have fun using Aros ( Icaros Desktop 1.4.5 ) and playing DukeNukem on it.
Aeros seems to help where drivers are lacking.
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@lsmart
>Amiga will not improve. Maybe AROS will, but I am not sure. You may hope for some
>up to date software and maybe some hardware, but there are no resources for
>real improvements that will benefit Joe Random.
I think on this topic "Amiga" means AOS+MOS+AROS.
But your comment seems like the most pessimistic to date.
Every release AOS, MOS and AROS have improved.
There have been real improvements that are visible to user right after first bootup.
And (for example for AOS) updated 3D and multicore support is being implemented.
You think those will never be ready?
>Windows will change substancially, but it seems that they "improve" it for a different
>target audience than us: Sony Tristar, Time Warner, Intel, ASUS, D ELL, HP and Microsoft.
I agree on that. At work XP has been the only approved Win variant for a long time, interesting to see if Win7 brings improvements to user experience.
So far, update after update, outlook, office, etc. M$ productions have become harder and harder to use.
My needs on SW R&D have not changed, but ten years ago same things (around office part of the work) were much simpler to do. And our whole SW team agrees.
In the end... I'll be surpriced if win7 manages to improve things. First time since NT4.0 release????
btw... on this topic, I think also AEROS can be considered to be "Amiga". Is there any big thing that can not be done on AEROS? It runs also windows SW, mind you.
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I've been playing with Windows 8 and I think Microsoft tried to do too much in one bite. The deprecated old Windows desktop's presence is annoying, I find myself asking where the h*** did Metro go many many times. There's just something counter intuitive to having both Metro and the legacy desktop there.
Windows 7 is rock solid but it's starting to show it's age.
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I've been playing with Windows 8 and I think Microsoft tried to do too much in one bite. The deprecated old Windows desktop's presence is annoying, I find myself asking where the h*** did Metro go many many times. There's just something counter intuitive to having both Metro and the legacy desktop there.
I think that rather than trying to do too much at once, they tried too hard to combine product lines that were separate for a reason. For every person like you who wonders what the legacy desktop is doing in your Metro, there's someone like me who wants the new crap gone and wonders where the environment I'm used to went...
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Every release AOS, MOS and AROS have improved.
There have been real improvements that are visible to user right after first bootup.
And (for example for AOS) updated 3D and multicore support is being implemented.
You think those will never be ready?
btw... on this topic, I think also AEROS can be considered to be "Amiga". Is there any big thing that can not be done on AEROS? It runs also windows SW, mind you.
Oh, I didn't mean to sound too pessimistic. But most of the improvements we are seeing today is support for existing hardware and file formats. AEROS and AOS have added some hooks to make the UI easier for people who are using Windows but I turn them off as soon as I can. I really think the UI of 1994 (+MFR+cycletomenu) was the best UI for AmigaOS and has not been improved since. AmigaGuide has been replaced by HTML and PDF and the documentation has been neglected and became less useful than in the days of the fishdisk. This is what I think Joe Random will notice.
I am a fan of the things Hyperion is trying to do for the core of AmigaOS and am really impressed with the work of the Friedens. And I admire AROS for having created such a perfect copy of our beloved system. (I don't know MOS enough to praise them, sorry) I think they are great now and there will be some improvement on the road.
But I had hoped that other OS would improve the way I can work with multiple files and programs, help me remember which file is which, give me feedback when I click, let me change the settings according to my mood. Windows had the finances to do this, but instead they plan on a renting model for Office.
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Windows 7 is rock solid but it's starting to show it's age.
See, and this is something I don't understand...
Basically, it works well, but the problem is that it's looking old???
If it's designed to work well, and it does work well, why change it?
Just because it's been like that for a while and it's time to change?
I'm not a fan of change for the sake of change...
I love change where it makes sense...
Just me..
desiv
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Just me..
Not just you. Not in the least.
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I don't see 7 as "showing it's age" at all, and until MS pull their typical ****ery along the lines of "this service pack/DirectX update/security update/hotfix wouldn't work/can't be supported by the kernel/would require a rewrite of the OS (but not really), so you'll have to upgrade" I'm not budging.
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Because touch is the future. Everyone moaned when the introduced the mouse, too. The desktop/laptop are about to become a niche.
I have a MacPro at home and at work, but my MacBook is starting to feel abandoned because of my iPad. Keynotes, web surfing, youtube, facebook, even server maintenance. It's all there and all better on my iPad.
We are on the very beginning of a new computer generation. Windows 7 is the pinnacle of the mouse age, but that age is ending.
See, and this is something I don't understand...
Basically, it works well, but the problem is that it's looking old???
If it's designed to work well, and it does work well, why change it?
Just because it's been like that for a while and it's time to change?
I'm not a fan of change for the sake of change...
I love change where it makes sense...
Just me..
desiv
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Because touch is the future
...
We are on the very beginning of a new computer generation. Windows 7 is the pinnacle of the mouse age, but that age is ending.
I think you've made some big assumptions there, and we have yet to see if they pan out.
Touch is the present, for mobile devices.
It works well in that area...
Touch has been tried and tried and tried for the desktop environment and has yet to succeed.
It doesn't mean that it won't, but I wouldn't say for sure that it is the future.
It might be.
Gesture might be..
Voice might be..
Some combination of those...
And a keyboard and pointing device of some kind might also be..
I'm not convinced that touch will work with the desktop.
Then again, I'm not convinced the desktop will survive other than in business and some niche areas...
desiv
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Because touch is the future. Everyone moaned when the introduced the mouse, too. The desktop/laptop are about to become a niche.
I have a MacPro at home and at work, but my MacBook is starting to feel abandoned because of my iPad. Keynotes, web surfing, youtube, facebook, even server maintenance. It's all there and all better on my iPad.
We are on the very beginning of a new computer generation. Windows 7 is the pinnacle of the mouse age, but that age is ending.
You keep saying that, but the age of non-touch devices keeps sticking around...
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Touch in the MS sense will not work on the desktop - as in the fingers on the screen method.
Touch, gestures wise - as Apple desktop products use, is something completely different and entirely workable, and I dare say even productive.
The deathblow of Windows 8 will be the fact it's just a mish mash of traditional and touch interfaces and neither of them are very pleasant or familiar to use. Perhaps they will sort that out before it goes public/retail, but I'm not confident they will, or that they even see the flaws in the approach they are taking.
It's a very cumbersome OS to use, and while it might work well on the Windows 8 RT Surface Tablet, I fully expect Windows 8 to be the next Windows ME, lol - with Win 7 being the new Win XP, the OS people stay with for the next 10 years.
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I have said this before but i will say it again. I think MS are going about it all wrong. They are trying to turn Windows into a tablet style os and it doesn't work. But they have already done this with the xbox. Why not use a games console as a base for creating a new os instead of using windows.
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What I'm saying is that desktops will linger where they are needed as minicomputers and mainframes do today, but the average user is better off at home with a tablet device. But that being said, Apple didn't put the iOS desktop on OS X or vica versa, they tuned the two branches of the OS for each environment, this is likely what MS should have done.
Apple is smart, with the "Magic Pad," I hardly ever use my mouse on my MacPros. Microsoft is showing the world it still doesn't get it, the two (desktop/laptop and tablet/phone) are different media and need to be developed for differently.
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What I'm saying is that desktops will linger where they are needed as minicomputers and mainframes do today, but the average user is better off at home with a tablet device.
Well, I've yet to see any of the "average users" I know make that decision for themselves.
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Hi,
Windows still doesn't have stability
smerf
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It doesn't make sense of having a touch interface for a desktop if I have to extend my arm, then my hand then my finger to touch and manipulate things on screen when a miniscule mouse movement will achieve the same thing faster with more precision and accuracy.
I see touch being for content-consumption devices (iPads and smart-phones) and mouse for content creation. MS would do well to simply ask the user which interface they want for Metro at installation time. A simple question-hell if they want they can even guess your hardware and default to touch or desktop environment-, but forcing desktop users onto a touch environment is a disaster waiting to happen.
On topic: i like the drop down menu that can be created with Magic Menu, I like that I can drag and drop a drawer into a file requester and lists the contents, I like the idea of screens but most of all I like that the active window can stay behind instead of being always to front
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Windows still doesn't have stability
I've had Windows 7 machines running for years now without a single crash, only being reset to install security updates.
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It's 20 years on, and Amiga freaks are still bitching about a succesful operating system.
Can AmigaOS run Photoshop? Is Cubase available for AmigaOS? Is AmigaOS relevant to professional life? Does the younger generation hang on deprecated operating systems or do they just need an up to date computer as a tool to do their work?
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Can AmigaOS run Photoshop?
Yes, via ShapeShifter.
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Well, I've yet to see any of the "average users" I know make that decision for themselves.
Yup. What I've seen generally happen is they'll buy a tablet then a keyboard and a stand, thus turning it into a sort-of laptop. They'll use it as a tablet for casual browsing, games, or watching shows, but using it for emails or any "real" purposes doesn't happen in its tablet form.
I don't see the tablet making it as a general purpose device any time soon.
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Yup. What I've seen generally happen is they'll buy a tablet then a keyboard and a stand, thus turning it into a sort-of laptop. They'll use it as a tablet for casual browsing, games, or watching shows, but using it for emails or any "real" purposes doesn't happen in its tablet form.
I don't see the tablet making it as a general purpose device any time soon.
I haven't even seen that. The only people I know with tablets are tech-heads who think they're the Next Wave of Computing (and they do definitely use them as poor men's laptops as you describe, for most purposes.) The "average users" I know are far likelier to have only a desktop PC or a laptop.
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It's 20 years on, and Amiga freaks are still bitching about a succesful operating system.
I think you've chosen a misleading username... ;)
desiv
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There's been 100 million iPad's alone sold since they came on the market, they are absolutely everywhere, lol. That's not even counting the other makes and models, Android, Windows tablets, hell - even touchpads and playbooks, not to mention low cost ones like the Kindle Fire.
Most people realize they are consumption devices and not laptop replacements, and for that they do just fine. Tacking on a keyboard and mouse to a tablet like an iPad is inelegant at best as the thing still is an "app machine" solely and not a real computer, so for the extra $200 a Mac Air is a better choice.
Not to say you CAN'T create content or do more productive things on a tablet.
GarageBand for iOS is great, but overall the iPad and similar things are not really comparable to a "real" pc, IMO.
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There's been 100 million iPad's alone sold since they came on the market, they are absolutely everywhere, lol. That's not even counting the other makes and models, Android, Windows tablets, hell - even touchpads and playbooks, not to mention low cost ones like the Kindle Fire.
100 million iPads and more from other parties, maybe, but that doesn't mean there's that many people using them - particularly not the iPad, with Apple's carefully-cultivated disposal culture. How many of those 100 million are actually in use, and how many were discarded when St. Jobs introduced the New Model? How many were bought by people who'd never owned a tablet before, and how many went to the True Faithful doing the Obligatory Upgrade?
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There's been 100 million iPad's alone sold.
Really?
I thought they were around 50 mil in March and predicting 100 mil by the end of the year.
Still a lot.
desiv
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120 Million is the forecast tablet sales in 2012, it was 60 Million in 2011 and they predict 140 million sold in 2013. Traditional desktop sales are flat at around 120 million a year. So basically if projections are right, and we are 7 months into the year, tablet and desktop sales for the year will be about equal....
Really?
I thought they were around 50 mil in March and predicting 100 mil by the end of the year.
Still a lot.
desiv
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It's 20 years on, and Amiga freaks are still bitching about a succesful operating system.
Can AmigaOS run Photoshop? Is Cubase available for AmigaOS? Is AmigaOS relevant to professional life? Does the younger generation hang on deprecated operating systems or do they just need an up to date computer as a tool to do their work?
This thread is about what Windows doesn't have, not about AmigaOS being better than Windows. AmigaOS clearly isn't better anymore, and I think most people here will agree with that.
Hi,
Windows still doesn't have stability
smerf
Indeed, that's why my WindowsXP setup only crashes once a year (or less) :rolleyes:
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120 Million is the forecast tablet sales in 2012, it was 60 Million in 2011 and they predict 140 million sold in 2013. Traditional desktop sales are flat at around 120 million a year. So basically if projections are right, and we are 7 months into the year, tablet and desktop sales for the year will be about equal....
Right, and clearly this trend will continue forever unchanged, as trends are well-known for doing! Why, if we went from marginal to 120 million per year in just two years, that's an increase of nearly 60 million per year per year! Why, in 114 years we'll be selling more tablets per year than there are people right now on the Earth!
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I've had Windows 7 machines running for years now without a single crash, only being reset to install security updates.
There isn't a single MS OS that doesn't crash. I have a dual boot XP-Pro Vista business desktop: both have crashed. I have a HP Dv4 laptop with Win 7 Ultimate: Three crashes in the last week alone. Yes I can go for months without a crash, but all OS's crash, eventually.
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It's 20 years on, and Amiga freaks are still bitching about a succesful operating system.
Can AmigaOS run Photoshop? Is Cubase available for AmigaOS? Is AmigaOS relevant to professional life? Does the younger generation hang on deprecated operating systems or do they just need an up to date computer as a tool to do their work?
I don't really care what the younger generation does.
Commodore-Amiga is a professional brand of machines. Out of date now, yes. It's a bit like having an old Rolls Royce.... still feels nice to take her for a ride.
I see you're a new member on here. Nice to meet you. :)
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there isn't a single os that doesn't crash
ftfy
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What I like in Amiga and what is still missing in Windows is the ability to program F-keys
(and other keys too) freely using Exchange and Fkey. E.g.: In my setup pressing F5 writes
my username and pressing F6 the password for amiga.org.
F1: Run program
C:Avail flush >CON:0/0/208/88/Flush/WAIT/CLOSE
F2: Run ARexx script
Work:REXX/CloseAllDrawers.rexx Work:REXX/CloseActiveWin.rexx
...
F12: Cycle screens forward
...MK
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What I like in Amiga and what is still missing in Windows is the ability to program F-keys
(and other keys too) freely using Exchange and Fkey. E.g.: In my setup pressing F5 writes
my username and pressing F6 the password for amiga.org.
F1: Run program
C:Avail flush >CON:0/0/208/88/Flush/WAIT/CLOSE
F2: Run ARexx script
Work:REXX/CloseAllDrawers.rexx Work:REXX/CloseActiveWin.rexx
...
F12: Cycle screens forward
...MK
It is not necessarily good idea because applications can implement other functions to those keys.
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Well, anyway, the option is there and that's what I like...I like it...
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What I like in Amiga and what is still missing in Windows is the ability to program F-keys
(and other keys too) freely using Exchange and Fkey. E.g.: In my setup pressing F5 writes
my username and pressing F6 the password for amiga.org.
F1: Run program
C:Avail flush >CON:0/0/208/88/Flush/WAIT/CLOSE
F2: Run ARexx script
Work:REXX/CloseAllDrawers.rexx Work:REXX/CloseActiveWin.rexx
...
F12: Cycle screens forward
...MK
Of course you can and more !
http://www.autohotkey.com/
You can assign full scripts with full control.
If you need more power, use autoit which records all keypresses and mouse movements that can be played back - something that cannot be done on Amiga.
With Autoit one can run apps, select options etc anything and have it repeat those actions.
http://www.autoitscript.com/site/autoit/
Its really good when I control my character in an online game to eat some special cakes for energy via an NPC repeatedly via a push of a button ;-)
If one does not want to use other programs, simple modify the registry for a more permanent assignment.
For remembering passwords I use RoboForm which automatically signs me in when i'm on websites - no user response.
I have over 50+ sites listed.
http://www.roboform.com
Some people really should educate themselves on what Windows can really do !
Like it or not, be thankful for Windows, without it there would be no FireFox and thus no Timberwolf.= and not to mention countless other apps being ported or even apps ffrom other platforms that have been inspired by Windows.
Im not saying Windows is great, far from it - no Operating System is great, they never will be, and thats the whole point - apps and User Interfaces and expectations change, evolve and improve into better ways of doing things.
This constant evolving and enhancing will always be there to the end of time, the only limit applications have is the creative freedom of developers who work tirelessly with the tools they have and the limits of the day.
Tirelessly pushing barriers into the unknown and limited only by their knowledge and inspiration.
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Like it or not, be thankful for Windows, without it there would be no FireFox and thus no Timberwolf.= and not to mention countless other apps being ported or even apps ffrom other platforms that have been inspired by Windows.
I'm all for Windows, but you realize Mozilla was developed on Unix derivatives, right?
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Yes, I am aware of http://www.autohotkey.com/. But hey, that is not a commodity found
in Windows , it's a third part sw you have to install yourself...I wonder why...MK
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Yes, I am aware of http://www.autohotkey.com/. But hey, that is not a commodity found
in Windows , it's a third part sw you have to install yourself...I wonder why...MK
Because Microsoft didn't waste time on writing their own.
If you're going to argue that only software bundled with the OS counts then your AmigaOS experience is going to be very limited.
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Only said that this commodity is not included in Windows...that's all...
BTW, shouldn't we make difference between operating system and sofware that is running
on it. Software in Windows is great but os itself is not. It is clumsy. monolithic and too huge
...that is how I see it as a long time user...MK
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Only said that this commodity is not included in Windows...that's all...
BTW, shouldn't we make difference between operating system and sofware that is running
on it. Software in Windows is great but os itself is not. It is clumsy. monolithic and too huge
...that is how I see it as a long time user...MK
That wasn't all you said. You wondered why & I answered your question.
Windows isn't monolithic. You can select which parts to install/uninstall. Something AmigaOS has a major problem with.
But it has more functionality than AmigaOS so it's going to be bigger. Linux was also smaller when it started and has grown with age. AmigaOS would have too, if it had been financially viable.
I'm not sure what you mean by clumsy. While 12 years ago I was still regularly using an Amiga 1200, I find it much easier to use Windows these days.
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By "monolithic" I mean that I can't see any organisation in C:\WINDOWS folder. It's a
total mess and I can't find any documentation to explain the meaning of folders
and files in it. Situation is totally different with amigaos...MK
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By "monolithic" I mean that I can't see any organisation in C:\WINDOWS folder. It's a
total mess and I can't find any documentation to explain the meaning of folders
and files in it. Situation is totally different with amigaos...MK
You just have to be careful with using terms like "monolithic" related to operating systems as it has a very specific meaning.
Other than that, there is an organization to the WINDOWS directory. That it's all in one directory may be a little disconcerting and it does tend to get cluttered with old stuff. None the less there is a structure to it.
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By "monolithic" I mean that I can't see any organisation in C:\WINDOWS folder. It's a
total mess and I can't find any documentation to explain the meaning of folders
and files in it. Situation is totally different with amigaos...MK
So, what you're saying is you're familiar with AmigaOS but not with Windows. I know plenty of people with the opposite problem.
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Windows 7, just right click a shortcut icon -> properties and reassign a new keyboard shortcut.
If you use a keyboard shortcut thats already in use in Windows by default, reassign those keys in the Windows registry - its all in there.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/gg463447.aspx
Happy now ?
Any more specific Windows/technical questions really should be directed at people who really know windows under the hood, sites like :
http://windows7forums.com/
This is where the experts are, I'm a mere multiOS user :-)
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I think the documentation is available for developers but what about
the "common man" who wants to be more familiar with the system?
When installling programs in Amiga I know exactly where the files go
(thanks for the well organised os and it's documentation) but in
PC I don't...
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Some of you dudes have been so mean to me, so I withdraw.
Still think that Exchange&Fkey is a wonderful tool to tune your Amiga.
Over and out...MK
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I think the documentation is available for developers but what about
the "common man" who wants to be more familiar with the system?
When installling programs in Amiga I know exactly where the files go
(thanks for the well organised os and it's documentation) but in
PC I don't...
There's literally a shyt-ton of information out there. Windows internals books, the unwritten Windows manuals, Windows Bibles, etc. All have been available in bargain bins and regular computer shelves at the book stores for years. (Though these days the book "store" ain't quite what it used to be.) Commercial operating systems generally don't come with the printed manual we got with GEOS (though I recall a good bit of griping that GEOS was too closed at the time) and printer manuals don't come with a chapter dedicated to how to create graphics with ASCII codes. Though hobbyist computing exists, general computing is not hobby- and tinkerer-centric but geared for people who don't care what's under the hood.
I suppose to put it another way, the majority of technically-savvy and technically-minded computer users/owners has declined past the point of being worth it to manufacturers to include extremely technical information with the products. That's where hobbyist communities such as our own come into play, and it's no use bemoaning how Xyz Commercial Vendor, Inc. doesn't give all its buyers in-depth technical details.
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... serious localization.
There's sheer beauty in switching your system to - well just about any language and see it change instantly. Ever tried to mess with MUI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_User_Interface)? :P