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Offline Akiko

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #59 from previous page: August 20, 2009, 01:19:15 PM »
I'm willing to contribute $100 or so.. I'm sure there there must be at least another 99 members would do the same!

I think it's so important to try have Amiga.org owned by many commited members as possible, rather than say one or two individuals that *could* franky shut down or bastardize this site at any time.
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #60 on: August 20, 2009, 01:28:33 PM »
I think a bit less melodrama is called for.

Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:

Quote
Again, I've said this clearly, but Amiga.org isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I just think it needs someone in the captain's chair who actually appreciates the Amiga for what it is.
int p; // A
 

Offline WayneTopic starter

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2009, 01:38:45 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;520129
I think a bit less melodrama is called for.

Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:

Thanks Karlos,

Re-reading the thread, I've emphasized exactly that at least 4 separate times, but this *is* the Amiga community where apparently no one can be taken at their word but what's between the lines.

The site isn't going anywhere.

What no longer exists is any interest on my part to do more than let it run on Auto-pilot.  A feeling that I've had for a long while, but is resurfacing after the upgrade to vB has been completed.  

In that, I'm sure I'm no different than Davey (AW), or John (Moo), or Targhan (MZ), or any other Amiga webmaster, and that's not what this community deserves.

Where I'm getting upset is the rather rude suggestions that the site has no tangible value, to which I vehemently disagree.  I'm also upset because as much as people suggest this place means to them, no one seems to be interested in stepping up to the plate to prove it.   I certainly understand that on a global scale, this is the wrong time for it, but still...

Being told that a life's work is worthless is... disenchanting to say the least.

Wayne
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 01:43:43 PM by Wayne »
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Offline the_leander

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2009, 02:04:49 PM »
I've said my bit in private but I'll say a little more in public.

I understood Wayne's position, my comment in this thread was perhaps poorly worded.

To say this place has no value, intrinsic or otherwise would to fly in the face of the evidence.

Here we are, it's 2009, some 15 years after the death of Commodore. This place isn't just about the Amiga any more, it is a community in it's own right.

If I had the cash I'd gladly give it without a second thought. All I have atm though is time.

And yes, as someone else who has a longterm project on the go, the idea of being told it's worthless is a hidious thought. Shame on those who think otherwise.
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Offline Mightyzorlac

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2009, 02:35:37 PM »
:)I just want to thank Wayne for all his hardwork, dedication and time in making this the best Amiga site on the net .
 
This site is my one of my favourite places to visit on the net, I would be truely sad (and a bit lost ) if this site ever shut or changed hands.
 
But I understand with the current situation and support you in any decession you make , your a founding pilliar and a credit to the whole Amiga community wayne, you have made a real defference in keeping the sprit of Amiga alive in these very dark days and I just want to thank you for giving me hope still.
 

Offline Raffaele

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2009, 02:36:18 PM »
Quote from: Wayne;519942

I just need to pay off some debt and move forward in my life. I can't do that if I spend most of my free time here administering the site and worrying about hackers and/or spammers.

10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.

If no one reads this, and I'm sure no one will, I'm considering putting the site up on eBay on a "until it sells" basis with a reserve on October 1st.

Lock, stock, and barrel.

During which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.

It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.


Actyually a smart move will be to keep the site online with users donations and let it be administrated by volunteers who will take your place and let you free for other things, and mainly keeping you more free time for some spare work that will help you pay your debts.

And if you are so lucky to find a buyer for the site, then it will be fine for you and for the users...
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 02:38:38 PM by Raffaele »
Que viva el Amiga!
Long Life the Amiga!
Vive l\'Amiga!
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Offline cgutjahr

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2009, 02:44:23 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;520129
Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:

The problem is this: Everybody - except, as usual, Wayne - knows that this site isn't going to sell for 10,000 USD. It would be insane to pay that much, period.

He's not going to get what he's asking for - the question is how he's going to react. Having witnessed Wayne's reactions to similar problems in the past, I have my doubts if amiga.org will survive this.

And a few more observations:

99% of the content of this site are forum postings. These postings are owned by their authors, not by Wayne - hence he can't sell them. He can only sell the domain and the existing infrastructure.

Without you, who spent quite some time to migrate the content from the old CMS to the new one, all that Wayne could sell would be a domain and an empty forum. You don't seem to care, but the timing of events...

1. Wayne complaining that he needs to upgrade the CMS, because "running a.org wouldn't be fun anymore if we don't"
2. Karlos investing lots of hours to migrate the content
3. Wayne trying to sell the whole shebang for an insane amount of money because "running a.org is no fun anymore"

makes me feel uneasy.

Guys, this is just a domain. It's a nice one, with a lot of history, but it's just a domain. Get over it, set up an alternative (like other people did in the past) and use your money to support ongoing Amiga efforts.

That said: amiga.org is/was great, I loved it. Thanks to everybody who kept it running for such a long time. For that you'll always be fondly remembered Wayne. Thanks a lot.
 

Offline WayneTopic starter

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2009, 03:15:34 PM »
Quote from: cgutjahr;520142
The problem is this: Everybody - except, as usual, Wayne - knows that this site isn't going to sell for 10,000 USD. It would be insane to pay that much, period.

He's not going to get what he's asking for - the question is how he's going to react. Having witnessed Wayne's reactions to similar problems in the past, I have my doubts if amiga.org will survive this.
Thanks for your vote of confidence, and the not so subtle insults.  Very helpful. I wondered when the trolls would show up.  My response wouldn't be nearly as helpful, albeit much shorter.

Quote
99% of the content of this site are forum postings. These postings are owned by their authors, not by Wayne - hence he can't sell them. He can only sell the domain and the existing infrastructure.
Absolutely, unequivocably wrong.  Period.  Not even a point of discussion.  the content posted on ANY site becomes the inherited property of the site, and it's covered in the TOS which has been posted in various versions since 2001.  Same with Moobunny, same with AW, same with MZ, same with *any* site.

When Microsoft bought out yahoo, did all the links go away?  When Google bought out YouTube, did all the videos disappear?  No.  The end-user still has the right to delete their videos (or in our case, each of your posts/contributions) but in absolute fact, the content is part of the site and inseparable as such.

Edit: if you want to consider it "selling the domain and getting free data" then that's fine, but whomever purchases the domain gets the whole ball of wax, not just the domain name.  Whether or not that makes you uneasy or not is completely irrelevant.

Quote
Without you, who spent quite some time to migrate the content from the old CMS to the new one, all that Wayne could sell would be a domain and an empty forum. You don't seem to care, but the timing of events...

1. Wayne complaining that he needs to upgrade the CMS, because "running a.org wouldn't be fun anymore if we don't"
2. Karlos investing lots of hours to migrate the content
3. Wayne trying to sell the whole shebang for an insane amount of money because "running a.org is no fun anymore"

makes me feel uneasy.
You're right about one thing.  We are *all* indebted to Karlos for saving the data from the last x years.  Absolutely.

1) Never complained about "it wouldn't be fun any more".  The upgrade was mandated by the hosting provider's abandonment of PHP 4.  The copy of Xoops that we had was damned near 10 years old, having been used to satisfy the diehard AmigaOS users.  Period.

2) No Argument, and you should thank your sweet bippy that Karlos was here to save the data to begin with.  I could have just as easily done a full, clean reboot without any data.

3) Stop making shit up buckhead.  

- I no longer have any personal interest in anything Amiga
- I want out, and want to make sure that whomever takes over is serious about it
- I have a 15 year vested interest in this site, it's content, and it's copyrights.

For *that* purpose, and *that* purpose alone, there is a price tag associated with it.

The fact that you crawled out from under your rock long enough to come in here and absently attack me for it speaks volumes for what's wrong with this community as a whole, though I do like to believe that 99% of the community is better than this.

Any further insults or attacks will be met in kind.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 03:25:30 PM by Wayne »
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Offline ffastback

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2009, 03:26:57 PM »
Quote from: Wayne;519942

10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.


Are you trying to say Amiga.org is worth 10,000 USD because you think English Amiga Board, Amigans.net, and Amigaworld.net are not worth anything in the Amiga universe?  Maybe you did not mean it that way, can you clarify?
 

Offline WayneTopic starter

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2009, 03:30:41 PM »
Quote from: ffastback;520147
Are you trying to say Amiga.org is worth 10,000 USD because you think English Amiga Board, Amigans.net, and Amigaworld.net are not worth anything in the Amiga universe?  Maybe you did not mean it that way, can you clarify?
I'm not suggesting anything of the kind, but thanks for twisting my words.

None of the mentioned domain names are AMIGA.ORG, which is what I said.   None of them has been around 15 years, and none of them have anywhere near the amount of historical data this site does.

If the owners of those sites choose to take the same path I have, then more power to them and I wish them luck.

Wayne
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Offline WayneTopic starter

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2009, 03:32:10 PM »
Just to be clear, this thread just made moobunny.  While I have a great amount of respect for 90% of the posters over there,  I don't expect it to be civil or troll-free for too much longer.
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Offline Gavilan

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2009, 03:38:11 PM »
@cgutjahr

Hi, im sorry, but i totally disagree with you. In more than one sentence.

Maybe for YOU its "only" a domain. Period.

But, reading some of the comments before mine, i have the feeling some people here feels just like me: im not a radical nor an extremist in any way, but AMIGA.ORG has ALWAYS been my HOMEPAGE no matter what machine or where i was: work, home, my mother´s computer, etc etc

Amiga.org was, together with Yahoo!, the very first two sites i surfed in the net back in 1998 if my memory is not wrong!!!!!

I feel this site MORE than "just a domain"

Even tough i didnt post enough like, say, Karlos, or motorollin (Hello moto!), i have been a long time member, and i consider this site as my virtual home in the net. Period.

I feel many of us have the same feelings about this.

Of course, i have only grateful words to Wayne for keeping all this during 15 years (please, read again, 15 years!!! Tell me another site of this nature that has been running for so long please!).

Of course, im in no position of having 10.000 dollars (but hey, if i had them, i wouldnt think it twice, and would send Wayne the money inmediately, just to keep the site alive) at this moment.

But of course im willing to "contribute", at least 100 dollars. Is the LEAST i can do to a place which has given me joy, pleasure, entertainment, knowledge, virtual and real friends...how much is THAT worth? I think there is no prize to be precise, and what Wayne is asking is simple symbolic.

He could ask 100.000 or 200.000 dollars, and i think nobody could even complain about that.

Amiga.orga is unique, in many, many aspects. You have to admit that.
I have been (or still am), member of at least another 5 amiga forums, both in english an in spanish (which is my native language)

And believe me, i ALWAYS “return” here. (Not that im gone, but I mean, I always check the site on a regular basis, not now, due to some health and finantial problems, but I check it very, very often, even if im not logged in)  Why? I dont know exactly, but i found myself more “comfortable” here than anywhere else. Not that im uncomfortable in other Amiga forums, but i just feel part of this community and i dont want to see it disappear.

Its not a matter of "go on, create another Amiga forum". No my friend, this site has "mojo", has its own heart beating, WE, US, the AMIGA COMMUNITY.

And this is a unique opportunity to join efforts, to try to find 1,10,100,500 active members who are willing to commit a community "buyout" (i dont know if thats exactly the name but i guess you understand my point).

I had the chance of meeting here very very friendly, helpful, nice people from anywhere in the world. And i dont want to miss that, either.

Please, understand, i have nothing against you or anybody, im not the kind of person who loves to argue, but i just had to say that even tough you have my full respect (as well as ALL Amiga.org members) i dont agree with your point of view

But, since im not melodramatic and im practical and pragmatical, best choice here is to let Wayne do whatever he wants. After all, he is the one who has achieved this (of course, with the community along) but he deserves what he is asking!!! And nobody has the right to argue with him for that!

So far, i have counted at least 8 active members in this same thread who are willing to contribute with $$$ (it doesnt matter if its 1 dollar, 10 dollars, 100 dollars). The way i see it, its the least we can do for a site which has given us (at least me) so much fun, so much knwoledge, so much endless funny readings, pictures, comments, etc etc etc etc

I say we star another thread to see who is willing to "donate" for the cause.
At this very moment, i can only show my support with 100 bucks, but im positive that if one thing that should be coming in my life near soon is good, i could be able to put more money.

Again, Wayne, saying THANK YOU is not enough, i know, but, its the least we can do.

KEEP THE AMIGA.ORG SPIRIT ALIVE!!

Come one people!!!
Those who are interested, show your support, dont buy 1 Amiga piece of hardware for one month and donate!! :)
Im 100% positive WE can achieve that!!

After that? Who will be moderator and all that? Well, we are all grown ups here, so speaking and listening (well, reading) is good for understanding each other

I could only say, for example 5 or 6 people "I" think should be moderators, even by ther long time relationship with the site, by their knowledge, by the number of posts, etc etc etc

Im not one of those, thats clear. My only intention is to keep this site alive and kicking. I want to help. I want to contributte!

Everybody here have at least one thing in common: our love/passion/commitement to Amiga. Well, i say, lets keep it that way!!!!! It doesnt matter actually if you are no longer an Amiga user, if you are newbie, if you are a returning user, you simple have the Amiga flame inside you! Thats good enough i say!

Excuse me for the long post, but i really had the feeling of saying all of this.

Thanks a lot for your understanding and comprehension, and please apologies if i hurt anybody´s feelings. Since english isnt my first language, sometimes is more than difficult to try to make my ideas clear here on the keyboard...

Sebastian
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Offline the_leander

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2009, 03:38:28 PM »
Quote from: Wayne;520149
Just to be clear, this thread just made moobunny.  While I have a great amount of respect for 90% of the posters over there,  I don't expect it to be civil or troll-free for too much longer.


Hehe, I was wondering how long it'd take :lol:

Let the games begin! :afro:
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Offline WayneTopic starter

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2009, 03:40:16 PM »
That's a good point though.  If, like the trolls, everyone is so caught up on the $10,000 USD figure, why don't you guys get together, figure it out, and make me a REASONABLE offer?

At this point, I may bow out of the thread, because I'm just not into the whole troll fighting defensive thing.  

You guys go back and read my first few posts and you'll understand both what, and why I'd like to accomplish this.  Don't read between the lines.  Don't imagine what you think I meant.  Read what I said and let me know what you guys really think.  

Trolls and naysayers need not apply, because one way or another, a solution will be found.
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Offline ffastback

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2009, 03:42:24 PM »
Quote from: Wayne;520148
I'm not suggesting anything of the kind, but thanks for twisting my words.

None of the mentioned domain names are AMIGA.ORG, which is what I said.   None of them has been around 15 years, and none of them have anywhere near the amount of historical data this site does.

If the owners of those sites choose to take the same path I have, then more power to them and I wish them luck.

Wayne


I asked you a question.  I did not twist your words.  I even said that maybe you did not mean it like it came off and simply asked if you could clarify the statement.  Thats it, pretty simple and basic.  Thanks for clarifying.
 

Offline WayneTopic starter

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Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2009, 03:45:02 PM »
Quote from: ffastback;520155
I asked you a question.  I did not twist your words.  I even said that maybe you did not mean it like it came off and simply asked if you could clarify the statement.  Thats it, pretty simple and basic.  Thanks for clarifying.
Apologies, and the reason I may bow out of this thread for a bit.  After a few attacks, both here and soon other sites and PM, I'm feeling a little bit defensive and -- as usual, with apologies -- it shows.

I feel like a newly engaged woman who, upon presenting her new engagement ring to her closest friends, gets belittled and told how ugly and worthless the ring is...  :)

Wayne
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